Episode 5: No Benchwarmers

Pastor Ezra Howard—a gifted musician and leader who uses his talents to elevate worship and ministry in powerful ways. But his impact doesn’t stop at the pulpit. He’s deeply passionate about mentoring and developing others to step into their calling and serve more effectively in the kingdom of God. And now, through his new book Saved to Serve, he explores what it truly means to be saved—and the purpose behind it.”  Enjoy the conversation!!!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to the Practical Living Podcast. I'm Craig Johnson. My co-host is not here with me, my daughter Chassity, because you know she works. That's a big thing that I worked. So she's not with me to join me in this conversation. So you're going to miss her in this particular segment. But I have one of my best friends here with me, um, Pastor Ezra Howard, who is a pastor, not just a pastor, he's like me, he's bivocational, he works at Kahoma Community College here in Clarksdale, Mississippi, and he is one of our leading pastors in our jurisdiction. Just so you know, he also is very musically inclined. You may see him on the saxophone, but Ezra also plays the organ. I'm talking about a masterful organist and a clear thinker on what a person should be in ministry, so much so until he wrote a book called Said to Serve. So let me welcome Pastor Ezra Howard. So glad to have you with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Good to be here, man. Thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Let's just first talk about how we met.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

All right, man. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

We met literally just growing up in college, but we got to growing up in church.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

But we actually got to know each other in college. Okay because during our junior years when you came to Alcorn State University.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Alcorn State University. Uh two of the best years of my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Literally. I know, right? I went to community college first for two years and came to Alcorn University. And people don't understand the HBCU experience. Like it's just a total different experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, it's it's a family, family vibe. Yep. Yeah, it's always a wonderful time to. That's where we meet our oftentimes lifelong friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

And actually, I didn't even know you were there until you came to my room.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

You came to my room in the evening. Like, hey, I'll be I'm like, you hear that. Yeah. And we literally connected from that day forward. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about good friends.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

And and uh, you know, God was working in plans, uh, like you said, even before we were college students. Uh we were growing up in the church. Exactly. Uh, and I know you remember you had a group, uh, singing group called Decision. And we had the brothers in Christ. And we would cross paths off often at uh different concerts and uh musicals and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

So hey, not just that you even traveled with us one year to um singing decision had to be in Texas. So you went with us and we went on a van together. Yeah. And I told you before you got on the van, I said now I said, now these my brothers and stuff. I said, now you can laugh at whatever they say, because they go act a they rich in folly and they're gonna be rich with foolishness.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Traveling with the Johnson brothers.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

And you halfway there, you say, I can't take no more stomach.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Because we acted enough the whole too much, too many stories, too many. Some I will not uh recite again, but they're all good, all clean.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

But yeah. They clowned they we clowned, but it was a good trip. I mean, we had good service, I mean, powerful move of God, even when we got there.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's all about you know, brotherhood and sharing with one another.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

And not just that, just just life experiences. Um, I got married before you did.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

And then I do you remember when you told me you want to bear a peach? You took me at the dinner. We said, he said, I gotta tell you something. So I'm trying to think. I said, now, why is Ezra taking me out to dinner for? I said, I hope it is ain't messed up. So I get there, I just started going out. You got this girl pregnant. What you doing? How you cut what what you talk? What would you man, can you just let me talk and tell you what I want?

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah, I didn't give you any indication that I was going down with election, but hey, that's all right. That's all right.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Just like he's sitting right now, that's how he was looking at me when I was going through, getting on him, tell him, Look, I know you ain't messed up. I know you ain't touched it. You were like, Man, can you just listen and let me tell you what I want? Yeah, it was serious stuff, though. Being what you said, I think I'm a proposal. I said, Oh, okay. What are we gonna order tonight?

unknown 4:38

Is that what you gotta do?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Don't just come and give me some bad news.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Wow, wow. Yeah, we uh we've been doing life together for a while. Literally. Um and uh ministry together for a long time too.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Uh after college, uh, we started um well I started doing uh nursing home ministry. And pulled me in on that. Yeah, pulled you in, and we were doing it.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

And I think I pulled you in on the care station. Yeah. That's a teacher.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

So we were doing this. We were doing nursing home on uh Fridays and uh earlier through the week we were doing uh the care station.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

The care station. And people don't on the care station is a place where they feed the hungry every day, no matter who they are, no matter what kind of background you get. Yeah, they ask no questions. If you come in for something to eat, yeah, they're gonna feed you. But before they would feed the people, they would allow us to minister. They had different we had different groups of ministers that would come in and minister to the people. That's what we would do. Yeah, before we would think about it, I mean, wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

We were, you know, early 20s. Exactly. Um, you know, before we were pastors.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Literally, we were already serving. I just think I'm thinking about that. On a weekly basis, and folk looking for a stage and they don't know it's plenty of opportunities to minister.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

And and you know, think about the impact that we were having at that time because it wasn't a church setting and they were not church members. No what it wasn't. Uh so they were hungry literally uh for for the word. They were hungry for ministry. And uh, you know, a lot of times in church we get used to it. You know, it's kind of like, oh yeah, I heard that before. But we were talking to people that maybe have never heard it, heard the word like that before.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So much so until there was a guy there that said every time y'all come in here, I can go and shoot up after I leave. Wow. Wow. You wouldn't know it to look at him. Yeah, he was a working person. I think he worked at a grocery store in the area. Okay. And when that guy told me that, I said, Well, you ain't gotta do it at all. He said, But it's just something different when you all addicted.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

He said, just from how you all minister when you come here. He said, I can't when I leave out of here, I normally go and find somebody shoot up and shoot up. Wow. Yeah, we'll just addicted, you know, a person that had an addiction.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Don't know what kind of impact you have. Literally. And uh going to the nursing home uh every week, uh, having an opportunity to minister to some of the people that were uh on their last in their last season. And they weren't able to get to church. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

So church we brought we brought the ministry to them.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And there were times where we go and and uh we'll look for a person and find out that you know they've gone on because they're in their last season, don't get a chance to minister to them uh in that season. So you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

And they would pack it out up in there. Yeah, those people would the old people coming in. I mean, they knew we were good. I loved it. And what I love at that age, they could say whatever they want to you. I would never forget the Caucasian lady that pulled up. She we were talking. She said, How you doing? I said, I'm good. She said, Look, you need to keep your feet from under the table because you look like you're getting a little too big. I laughed. She had to laugh. She was laughing about it. Yes, ma'am. I mean, they just said what's on it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, no filter at that point. No, no filters at all at that age. That's why I enjoyed the comedy, because they could they could tell you stuff in such a way that you'd have to just laugh about it. They'd have you go with it, boy.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah, but it would, you know, that was an opportunity for us to uh kind of get that experience, uh kind of get our chops and you know in the ministry, and of course we were already doing music, uh, but you know, sharing the word of God to people that you know maybe never heard before. Are you still playing Ezra? Yeah, I still play.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Play ish. You get on the organ a piano, and I would rather have you backgrounded me on that piano right now. Because you, you, you and Ronald McCain were two guys that knew how to roll when y'all got on that, got on the on the organ of the piano. Y'all just knew how to move on it.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah, I I still play, I said play-ish. You know, I don't know. You let all the play. I I still play saxophone. Uh I try to pull it out every Sunday and uh kind of play with the praise team or try to keep that going.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Uh, but as far as keyboard, you know, we've got so many masterful keyboard players. We do, we really do. That uh, yeah, I just kind of play if I have to. I'm kind of like my dad, if nobody else is now. You know, I'm the best in our club. So yeah, I you know, still got to keep it going though.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

That's that's major, man. Yeah, that's major. This is how we learn. I don't think people under, especially you see a lot of the new generation, they want to again the lights, camera action, and the stage. Yeah, but do not understand that serving is what you needed. Yes, when you see the need. Yeah, and we always saw the need. And God literally created the opportunity for us to minister in places that helped us to minister when we got to the place where we are now. That's right. Literally, I'm telling you, ministering at the care station and at the nursing home literally showed me how to deliver my message. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Wow. And uh, you know, when you have a heart to serve, uh, it kind of opens your eyes.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Man, say that. You know what to say.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

See areas that, you know, other people may not see because they're like, hey, I'm I'm not looking to be seen. I'm just trying to find a way to help, to help out and to use what God gave me to help somebody else. And so your eyes become open to opportunities. And then other people can pick up on that and say, hey, you know, can you come in and help us? Because they know you got that kind of heart. So yeah, so no cameras before social media, uh, before all of that, we weren't, you know, taking selfies. I don't know if we have any footage of that. I don't think so. Well, we did on a weekly basis. I don't did we have these then? Oh, oh man, you talking God we old. Is it this week decades ago?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Wow. Because social uh social media wasn't as prevalent then. I think it was more like um what are them things called? Pages then.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, beepers and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Oh, I don't think social media was well the phones didn't come until later because people it kind of yeah, we we barely had internet back.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

AOL or something like that in the CD role.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Exactly. But you had said a key thing. Yeah, we had a heart to serve.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

How do you see the generation behind us? Well, um you don't see a lot with the heart to serve, is what I because that is the key element for any place is people really having a heart to serve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

And there are, you know, I'm sure that uh I know that there are a whole lot of uh of this uh generation that has a heart to serve. Um, you know, with the social media and the fact that there are so many opportunities to to go live and to be seen, it kind of uh sometimes kind of taints that that motive. Uh once, you know, once you start to serve and you say, hey, I got to capture this for my you know, for my followers and stuff like that, then you kind of lose some of the impact on it. Uh and makes you sometimes, you know, if you can't get that photo out, you may not be so inclined to do it. Uh but uh I I know we've got you know got a lot of great people that are serving now, doing something behind the scenes. And uh maybe one day you get a chance to see it. If not, then they'll they'll happy to serve. Continue. Yeah. Yeah, just happy to serve.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Because they have the heart for it.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

What made you write this book? Wow because Save to Serve. When I saw just the title, I said, This guy knows what he's talking about. It's because I knew you. I knew the things that you've done. There are things I've seen you do, and I say, uh uh-uh, you don't need to do that for them. And you were like, oh, where and you understood the principle. This is something I know. You understand the principle of giving and serving. You understand that principle that what how whatever I sold, I'm gonna get it back. Yeah, you understood that principle. So when I pick this up, I said, this guy is on point. Save to serve. What made you literally sit and say, hey, let me start right? Wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Well, I appreciate you having me on, man, uh, to talk about that. And actually, save to serve uh is one of our mottos at our church. Uh, way before we uh released a book on it. Uh if you go to our church, you can see it on the wall. Save, save to serve. Uh, we have this whole um motto that we are saved, set free, spirit-filled, and servant. And so the the ultimate goal is to be a servant. Uh, we talk about all the time. We want to hear him say, Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Um, so going back to the book, actually, uh, we can go all the way back to when I first started pastoring. And uh, you know, you know, those of you that know my father, I mean Superintendent Frank Howard, uh a giant of a man, literally and physically and physically. Yeah. Uh just a major impact uh in our church and our community.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Major wisdom and spirituality.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

In our jurisdiction. Um and so uh when he went on to be with the Lord, I had to step up to be the pastor. And uh people like, oh man, you got big shoes to feel. You got some big shoes to feel. Of course, we understand what he what they meant. But I was, you know, I was thinking uh that all of us got shoes to feel. Um, all of us has um uh purpose, and it was one of the things that we said at church, every person has a purpose. And uh, you know, I kind of had this idea that that people were and even members maybe were gonna watch me and say, oh, let me see what he's gonna do. Uh let me sit back and watch him see how he's gonna feel these shoes. Uh, but in reality, uh everyone has uh a place to serve in the kingdom. And uh so it wasn't, you know, it was kind of like I I wanted to show and to tell that we all have something to do. So it's not like come and see our pastor do his thing. No, you you you have to uh own your own purpose and know that God has created you for something may not be to be a pastor, but it's something. Everyone has something to do, and that when we are saved, uh we're not just saved to sit down and wait on the pastor to do everything. Uh, and another thing that really prompted me in this area was um oftentimes I do altar calls, and we do altar calls all the time at the church, and uh not just at the church, but anywhere. And uh I started to uh see myself doing these altar calls, and I would, you know, talk to individuals and I say, hey, you know, get saved tonight or you may die, you know, tomorrow. You know, like you don't know when the Lord is coming back.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

So you better get a click. What a clickbait.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah.

unknown 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

I mean, it's like we kind of threaten them or uh or uh you know, kind of settling them insurance. Like you don't know where you're gonna die. Uh-huh. So you better make sure. But it's just a it's you know, it's correct. That's that's it's not incorrect, but it's incomplete. Because uh, you know, you you scare them into being saved and uh mess around and don't die, you know, that night. And they wake up in the next morning and say, I'm still here. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my life? Now that I'm saved, you know, what next? Now do I just kind of wait until I die? Uh just make sure I'm I'm ready uh to die. But uh I said, I got we got to do more than that, more than just uh uh sell the promise of heaven, which is important, which is great. But we've got to also um communicate to them that you have a purpose on this earth. And uh we say it now all the time that salvation is the starting line, it's not the finish line. That when you're saved, you are now uh being brought back to what God had originally designed for you to be. When you look at the word saved uh in the scriptures and all the things that kind of go with that, it's many of those terms start with with the prefix re, are e. That means to to do again. Like you have been redeemed, you have been restored, you have been uh reconciled, that means to be brought back. So that that indicates that there was an original purpose that God had for us. And uh through um Adam, if you want to say that we got we fell into sin, and God, his intent was to to bring us back. And once he bought us back and saved us, now he is he has put us back in these place where he originally designed for us to be, and that is to serve him. And so we were we were always created to serve, but because of the fall, we now had to be saved to serve, to get back to what God had originally planned for us.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

This thing in your heart. Oh man. Um this is what it gets me in chapter three. Power to serve. Chapter five.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

This is what I noticed, and and and I felt the same way, but you expressed it better. You say, I never saw myself as the kind of person who would stand behind a pulpit. In the Pentecostal denomination, preaching is often high spirit and full of fire, voice rising, hands waving, energy filling the room. You said that wasn't me. I wasn't the loudest in the room, the most charismatic, or the one who naturally commanded attention. So when I felt God calling me to pastor, I was stunned. Me? I didn't fit the mode. I wrestled with the idea, convinced that pastors were supposed to be bold, dynamic, and electrifying. Meanwhile, I was quiet, steady, and reflective. How could God use someone like me in this way? But that's just it. God wasn't asking me to be someone else, he was calling me with the personality, the strengths, and even the weaknesses he gave me. You didn't just step into leadership, you knew how to follow. You served so until you felt like the same idea that I had in my head, because I wasn't trying to lead. Yeah, I thought I wanted to be a gospel star.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

I wanted to still got time.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

I wanted to be a gospel singer. I was wanted to sing. I wasn't trying to get to the pastoral ship at all, but I knew God. I was following, I was serving, and that's what I saw you do. But when I read that part, I said, Oh man, he felt this way too. Yeah. But your heart was in serving, and you didn't know that's scripturally sound because you can't lead unless you knew how to follow. And God knows you served and followed your father to the T in serving in that ministry so until that pathway opened that you had to go and start leading. But you had the heart.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, I didn't um I didn't see that coming. Especially that soon. My dad passed, he was 72. 72 now seemed like it's he's young. Exactly. Um, and he was not sickly or anything like that. Uh, but I had, you know, when I graduated from college, uh, the Lord spoke to my heart, hey, go back home and uh help your father. And he's not only did the Lord say he said it too. So it was confirmation. So uh I, you know, I was committed to being there, yeah, uh, regardless of uh what what that meant for me as far as any matriculation. Uh and I got to a point where I realized that uh a pastor needs help. Need good help, needs someone trustworthy. Yeah, someone that can can hear the vision and understand it and run with it. Uh and so the Lord had given me that closeness with my father that I could understand what he needed and where he was going. And uh so uh I was just there to help.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

What did you see? Because I've I've actually the first you talk about this story about the mouse church.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Because a lot of people are serving in ministry, and they are saved and they're trying to find out, you know, I need to be doing something, a fine purpose. So the story of the mouse church uh is what you started off with, and I can remember him the first time I heard the mouse story is when he preached in district number eight, when the late superintendent Moses Wright was the superintendent of the district at that time. Okay, and he was a guest preacher that night. And my God, that man preached about how people should work together and continue to work together, especially those of us that calls our ourselves saved. So this is the part, and I I'm not trying to give all the juice away in the book, but this is just part of good insight that's in this book, but it talks about the mouse church. It's let me read in the experiment, a group of mice was placed in a cage with no additional resources. And before long, the mice began to turn on one another. They engaged in fighting and biting and ripping at each other's tails and ears until one mice succumbed to its injuries. The surviving mice then targeted another mouse, and this cycle continued until there was only a single mouse left alive in the cage. Subsequently, the researchers introduced a new group of mice into the cage. This time they equipped the cage with a running wheel, a water source, and a maze of tunnels for exploration. Upon checking on the mice later, the researchers discovered that all the mice were thriving, and remarkably there were even more of them than before. The researchers concluded that the mice required something beneficial and engaging to occupy their time. This applies to human beings as well, not just mice, and to all of us, from our children to our churches. With nothing and no one else to focus on and pour into, we turn inward and often spiral downward into self-absorption, loneliness, and depression. In the church, this leads to ineffective members and unmet needs. My father understood the value of meaningful, productive work with that benefits others. That lesson is crucial for all of us, and it certainly helped shape my understanding of how God designed us to serve together.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

And I think that's one of the major things that I've seen in churches. A lot of folk have nothing else to do, and they start to turn on each other. Yeah. Because they don't understand the purpose of why they are saved.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

That's why, that's why this is more than a book. It's a mandate. It's a mission that we have to reframe uh what church looks like. It's not just uh from the uh from the top, and they want us just sitting around, and and you've heard this expression uh that I'm just a bench member. I don't have any positions, I don't have any assignments, I'm just a bench member. And that's that's dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

That's not even in the Bible. Where do the people of God get this stuff from?

SPEAKER_01 27:12

I said benches don't have members. It's just a saying that, you know, we are part of a body. Uh-huh. A body has members, uh, many members. Benches don't have members. And to say I'm just a bench member is uh saying that I'm I'm not gonna I'm not assigned to contribute anything to it. And that's not how God has created us to live. We are we are we are designed to contribute. We are designed to be more than consumers. We have to be contributors to really uh be fulfilled uh in what God has created us to be. And so that's why I say reframing, and anybody that's saved, uh like we said, that's just the starting line. Now let's let's uh dig in and investigate and see how has God wired you to serve in the church, in the community, in the world. And that way, you know, we won't be biting each other's tails and uh kind of being jealous and envious and kind of uh pulling people down when we are when we finally understand who we are, we don't have any any more time to do anything else.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

How would you say a person will find their purpose in? Wow. And so one of the one of the Because in the book, you didn't just write how we should be, you even put in how to discover that purpose. Yeah. And I love that you gave solutions.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

So we definitely have to start uh with uh seeking the one that created us. And um in prayer, and uh and and a lot of times it's just uh those things that you you see a need and the other people may not be able to see it, but it's just kind of glaring to you. You may see a problem, you may see a situation, and for some reason it it burdens you. And so those things are indications that hey, God has wired you in a way to serve in that area. And that's where the fulfillment comes in. Is that when you when you finally uh know that you're doing what God has created you to do, and to be able to have this statement and say, I was made for this. Whether it's it's uh cooking in the kitchen or serving uh, you know, the homeless or whatever it is that gives you that joy, uh, that gives you that peace, and you're able to sleep well at night knowing that you made a contribution. Uh, but it starts with with seeking God. And uh other people give you that confirmation as well. Uh because something that energizes you. That's one thing about serving. Uh it will energize you. Well, what may drain somebody else will give you uh energy. It's like wow. No, no, everybody doesn't. Uh and and you know, if you're singing, uh other people uh may say you might sing all night long and not get tired. Like we used to practice all night long, and and we still feel good after it's all over because we know we were made for things like that. So those things that energize you is a very good indication.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

You even quoted uh Miles Monroe about the greatest tragedy is not death, but life without purpose. Yeah. And you were saying when you know your purpose, you know, you will know how to move and serving.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

I've got a person right now that that knows how to clean and loves to clean the windows at the church. I mean, literally, the windows are spotless. There's somebody there that cleans already, but they want the windows and the doors, glass doors clean. He has the tools, the technique, and he enjoys doing that because he knows that's his purpose. Everybody's purpose is different.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah. And God has designed it that way. He designed it that way. So that everybody's needs will be met, you know, just like every member of the body is different, but it's necessary. And we all have a purpose. And uh, you know, going back to uh save to serve, uh, I I preached this uh at church about a 10-message series, and in the middle of the series, the Lord dropped in my spirit uh to look at what he told Moses in Exodus. And uh it's a very, very popular saying, uh, God told Moses to go tell Pharaoh to let my people go. And uh oftentimes when we say that, we end it that like that's a period at the end. But when you look in the book of Exodus, you'll see that saying, Let my people go about seven or eight times. And after each one of those, let my people go, is always followed by that they may serve me. Every time. Come on, man. Let my people go that they may serve me, and that's the save to serve model.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

That when he sent them every time, and and some translations say that they that they may worship me. So it always followed by serving. I'm gonna save you, I'm gonna deliver you so that you can serve me. I talk about in the book, the fact that uh when you talk about the mice, uh that we are uh created to serve. And so we're gonna serve somebody. We're gonna serve something. And even uh right or wrong.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah, you're gonna serve.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yeah, because we were we were created to serve. But the Lord wants us to serve Him, and that's where we get our highest fulfillment of purpose. Uh, but we're serving somebody. There's a song that says you're gonna serve somebody.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

What came to my that's what he was telling Faro say, these people are serving you, but I need you to let them go so they can serve me. I created them to serve me, and that's how uh he has created all of us. And if we want to find our fulfillment, we want to find our joy and our meaning of life, it's in serving.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

And even in serving, you brought up Moses. Moses was doing all he could in leading the people of the Lord and trying to do. But them folk got on Moses' nerve. One of the things that we need, I wanted you to hone in on, and I'm glad you brought up Moses. Okay. Because Moses experienced burnt out until his father-in-law told him you need to appoint some people to help you with this. You're serving, you're doing good, but you can't do all of this by yourself. Moses got so tired of them folks until he missed the promised land. Because them folk got on Moses' nerve. On that note, serving can be tedious and cumbersome at times, but depending on the behavior, and I'm getting this from one of our listeners, that says, Depending on the behavior, nature, and culture of the person, place, or thing that we are serving, in order to avoid burnout, when is it necessary to set boundaries? When is the appropriate time to do so? Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Um, that's a loaded question too. Uh I've experienced burnout before, and it's not a good feeling. The thing that you enjoy doing, and when you experience burnout, you don't want to see it. You don't want to think about it. True. And in one moment you just all in on it and burnout hit, and you don't want to see it at all. Um, a couple of things uh about burnout and about the boundaries, that's where the uh the save to serve uh mandate comes in, that everyone has uh a place and a part to play. Sometimes we experience burnout because we're doing too much and we're doing too many things. And some of those things that we're doing should be delegated or assigned to someone else. Because you can't do it all. Yeah, we can't do it at all. And when we understand that other people uh have an assignment and have a responsibility to serve, we will be more free to relinquish some of these things and share the load. Um and when they, you know, it was a thing I used to I used to say when they told me, say, you got big shoes to feel. I said, What I'm gonna do, I'm gonna cut these big shoes up. I'm gonna make smaller shoes and pass them out. Let other folks get some of these shoes. Wow. Yeah, and so loved it. And then the other thing, the fact that we were created by God. We were created to serve, yeah. But he also put some uh some uh commandments or some instructions and directions in place that uh is there to prevent burnout. You know, six days shall thy labor. And on the seventh day, do no work, rest. And he gave his people, uh, the children of Israel, uh the whole Sabbath, and then they had Sabbath weeks, they had Sabbath years, and those times to really step away from this from the job, from the assignment, and just relax and just uh recuperate and restore yourself. Um and and when we are serving and serving, serving, serving, we do have to put in that rest time. That time that we step away and just knowing when to say no.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yes, I've been. I mean, I've become anointed to say no. Uh I talked about that in one of the workshops, one of our jurisdictional leadership workshops.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

And I think another presenter got up behind me and said, Oh, I don't know what he means talking about saying no, I still got to do so, I gotta do so much work. Well, yeah, that person about to fall out now. Yeah. Because they don't know how to they didn't understand that you can't do everything. Some things you have to say, no, I'm not gonna do that. Let me assign this to somebody else. Let me let them handle this, let them do this, let them so you gotta say no to some things in order to get things accomplished.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah, we had to understand our limitations and uh that we're not called to do it all, and we're not called to do it all the time. Thank you. That no, and that's something I'm I'm you know, honestly, I'm still working on saying no.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Uh because sometimes you just feel like you gotta let me go and do this, they ask, let me go on do this, that and and you know you can do it. Yeah, sometimes you know you can do it, but I had to realize family, work, my own life, all that's gonna run into what I've obligated myself to.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

And that's that's why I uh that's what I messed up with. Doing something, well, it was something you something I heard your uncle say one time. See, that man got too many eyes in the fire he was talking about you. Yeah, doing too much.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Too many eyes in the fire. Uh so many uh so many gifts and talents. Being uh being a uh preacher's kid, a PK. You know how to do it all. Yeah, you literally have to do it all. You play the music, you you preach and you media team. Yeah, all of it on the sound. I'm getting off the organ, going turning up the mics. Uh all of that. So you have all of these these skill sets, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

Literally.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

And uh I guess sometimes you feel like since you can do it, then I guess you should. But uh, I'm learning how to say no. And uh, you know, it's it's freeing me. And then at the same time, it's giving others an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

And that's what I'm wanting. You're training somebody else. You don't just say no, but you train somebody else how to do the same thing. That's right. But they'll be ready. And then you can't tell them everything, let them learn how to roll through, let them learn how to uh handle the roadblocks. Yeah, because we had to learn.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

A lot of them end up doing it better than you.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Yes, literally.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

And that knows a blessing to you and to them.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Exactly. Yeah, and in doing that, and this is another question they sent. Also, when we have been serving in areas that are not growing and has shown no growth for a very long time, when is the appropriate time to move on? It's a good question. Now that's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

That's a good question. Um, and so it's it's it's something about that because if God has put that in you, then uh your faithfulness is saying something, regardless of the growth and regardless of the outcome, say this is what I'm assigned to do. If it's still feeding you, if it's still energizing you, um, then uh there's nothing wrong with with staying with it. Uh there's there's uh I'm actually working on another book. Um, and in that book, in that book, I talk about uh this uh this plant that um that I think it's in China or somewhere, and they plant it, but it and they water it for years, and it takes about five to six years for that plant to to show any growth above the ground. But in that sixth year, it'll grow up to 90 feet in just a matter of days and weeks. Wow. Uh so things are happening underground that um are not seen, the roots are going deep. And so it's due season hadn't come. Yeah, that season hadn't come. So you as as scripture says, don't be weary and well doing, for in due season, you preach this message. Yeah, if you faint not. So that's that's one part of if it's still feeding you, if God's still uh impressing upon you to to serve in that area, just just keep serving. Stick with man um until till you see see the fruit.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

I think that's one of the biggest hindrances in the ministries is the waiting time. Yeah is the processing time. And a lot of people give up during the times things are being processed.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

They don't see you don't see a child when it's conceived, but you know the person is pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

You see something happening, but you don't see the production of the child yet. The child hadn't come before, but something happened. Something going on. And once due season comes, the child comes and you see what you've been feeding all the time. So even in ministry, a lot of people have to understand that when you don't see growth, something is processing, you're still watering, you're still planting. But God is going to give us the increase. God gives us increase. That's why we can't get weary.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

And gotta keep serving.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Ultimately, we're serving the Lord. Um, and that's that's who we are trying to please, and that's who gets the glory. Uh, and if he's assigned us to serve whatever we are assigned to do, we're serving him. Uh sometimes the results may not be favorable, but we're still serving the Lord. Uh when you know, I talk about in the book how Paul uh instructs uh us how to live. You know, husbands love your wives, and uh children obey your parents, and all of that is serving. And it's not necessarily about you know how they respond to your love or whatever the case may be, but we're serving the Lord. Uh He's the one that uh is responsible for the outcome. We're just here to do his will.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Man, whoa, this is this is loaded. This is loaded. When are you gonna do the workbook for this book? Because this I'd like to give my wife the play on that. She put that in your head when she saw the book and she said, This needs a workbook because many ministers can use this. Yeah, we uh for their Bible study, for their series, this is good.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yeah, she did put that in our uh in my in my spirit. So we're working on a uh a save to serve framework to help uh to get people to get from being saved. I call it saved to serve pathway. So now that you're saved, uh let's walk to this path through this path to get you to the point where you are serving. And it's not just serving and you know, helping out and passing out programs and things like that, but uh identifying who you are and what you have been created to be. Uh, that's your ultimate serve to the world. And so if there is a pathway, uh like I mentioned earlier, um, the saved. Uh, you know, we we've been saying it for years. That's our testimony saved, sanctified, filled with the Holy Ghost, got a mind to run on. Uh see what the end is. And so we've kind of taken that, you're saved, and just like the pathway that that the Lord uh allowed his children of Israel to go through, you're saved, you're delivered from Egypt. Uh, but now Egypt had to be delivered out of you. So you had to be set free, uh, free from uh all the past uh trauma and all those things. So you had to work through that process, and then you had to be spirit-filled. And the Lord said, I'm gonna put my spirit in you. Uh and then you ultimately are serving. And so that was a pathway, and so we the workbook is is part of that. Uh it's not finished yet. We're still developing that. This is gonna be something uh that we want to use and we're gonna start in our local church uh to kind of as experimental and ultimately use. Now that you're saved, uh let's walk through this path. Okay. Because ultimately, the fulfillment comes when you are serving, where you can say, I was made for this.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

So St. Luke is a guinea pig until you get ready to pull it out.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Well, a guinea pig doesn't sound like a pig.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Yeah, I mean that's you're you're practicing with it to put out so you'll know how effective it'll be, which I understand.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Yeah, we need we need to see the proof. We need to see that it works and and so we can tweak it and fine-tune it. Um, but yeah, I think it's worth it. I know so many people. The book is good. So many people is gonna be good for many ministries. Yeah, well, we're we're trusting it will be.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

And uh And the reason I say it, I won't incorporate it with our new members' class.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

This is something that could go with a new members' class because there are some people that you have that are coming that are fresh in their walk with Christ. They're coming from backgrounds that didn't come from the same background we came from. So a lot of people, the people that I see at least at my church that are getting saved, have no Christian background. They are coming straight from the street. They may have went, have gone to a church, but they just showed up there and left. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

But they need that, as you said, that pathway.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

They need the pathway. Uh thinking about in the book of Hebrews, where uh the writer talks about a group of people that um got saved and uh maybe it's been a while, maybe some years later, uh he comes back and says, hey, you know, what's going on? You should be teachers by now. But you're still needing milk.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

This guy knows the word. You hit me yellow.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

You still, you know, you still need to be taught the foundations of it. Exactly. And so, which indicates that they did not really go through that pathway.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Thank you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

So after you're saved, now it's time to hit the road, it's time to walk. Uh, the Bible talks about living this life as a walk so many times. Uh walking in the spirit and all those kinds of things. So we need the pathway. We need to, you know, as the scripture said, that newborn babe desire to send milk of the word that you may grow thereby. Peter gives a pathway. He said, that add to your faith, virtue, and to virtue knowledge, to knowledge temperance, all those things, ultimately to uh it's interesting that he we use this word charity, which we which means love. But also we use the word charity in the sense of giving, in the sense of serving. So ultimately, we are we are matriculating, hopefully, to that place of serving. And there is a pathway, and and many people I believe are kind of wandering around. They know the Lord, but they're just not really clear on what they're here for. And and to give uh help give people a good, clear path to take to find out who they are. Oh man, it's priceless.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

So, what is the expected time for this workbook?

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Oh, well, maybe on another podcast we'll be talking about. I don't want to put a time on it right now. There's so many, um, there's so many things that I guess I'm doing still doing a lot. I guess I'm writing another book uh and doing other things, but we've got we've got the skeleton of it. Um I just want to kind of walk through it. Uh I want to walk through us through some months and kind of, you know, I'm not, you know, doing it for the workbook, but just doing it to see if, you know, to make sure it works. Exactly. Exactly. Uh one of the greatest joys that uh a pastor can have is to see uh a person that has come to the faith under his leadership and to see them thrive. Grow. Exactly. See them growing literally. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

I know what you're talking about. Yes. And I I I've experienced that and continue to experience that because I look at some of the people that I look at couples that weren't married, that got married, that joined and just thriving now in the ministry. Yeah, and and for real, you know, living the life, walking the walk, talking the talk. So this is going to be good. It's been this has been good. I need you to tell them where they can get this book and where they can order it.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Yeah, so uh the book is on Amazon. It's on Amazon, and it's on uh uh the Audible version is available as well. Uh you can go to my website, EzraHoward.com. I hope you pull that up, Trent. EzraHoward.com, e-z-r-a-h-o-w-ar-r-d dot com, and you can order from there. Uh, and if you order from my website, uh you'll get a direct copy, a signed copy, um uh shipped to you from myself. And uh that's that's my favorite way of uh you get the order. Uh it but it's also on Amazon as well. Uh we also have merchandise. Uh I didn't bring any merchandise with me.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

I have my hoodie in my in my car.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

We got hoodies, we got t-shirts. Uh we want to represent.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Uh yeah, get you some merch, take a picture, share with uh with your folks. Uh yeah, go to EzraHowell.com. You can find it.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

It has been a fun, pleasing pleasure to have you here today. I already have my signed copy. I've been reading mine since I got it. I finished it actually. Thank you, Ezra. Thank you. Thank you for being here with me today. Yes, sir. Thank you all for joining us here on Practical Living Podcast. This is our fifth episode. Make sure you go ahead and download from wherever you get your podcast and listen. And make sure you leave a review of how this is helping you because it's practical living. We're trying to make things in life difficult. And life is not difficult when you have Christ. That's just that's just the way it rolls. Go ahead and download and enjoy the conversations. I'm Craig Johnson. Hopefully, Chassity will join me on the next one. Missed you today, Chastity, my co-host. But she would have had. Is Chassity your God child? Is it Ashley?

SPEAKER_01 53:59

It's Ashley. I I claim both of them. I claim both of them. And Josh too.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Let's just show y'all how I french you. And your daughter, just in case his oldest daughter's listening, I'm waiting on my pound cake. Don't let your grandmama stop you from fixing it for me. But she can bake cakes too. I want my pound cake. I'm looking for it. Thank you for joining us.