Robert Watkins:
Hello and welcome to I'm a Serious Book Person, the podcast where we gently interrogate people who claim to be just that. I'm your host Robert Watkins and in every episode I sit down with an author, a reader or just a fellow book obsessive. Or maybe they're all three at once. To dive into their favourite stories, the books that changed them and why we all still cling to the glorious dusty power of paper and ink. So grab your favourite drink and your current read because this is the place for those who truly love books. Let's get to it.
Robert Watkins:
Are you worried about cracking the spines on your new novels? Do you shelve your books alphabetically or by colour? Either way, you might be a serious book person. Today, I'm interrogating best-selling crime novelist and writer Ashley Kalagian-Blunt about how she feels about books and stories. Ashley is a Sydney-based author who has published five books to great acclaim, including three crime novels – Dark Mode, Cold Truth and the forthcoming and ominously titled Like, Follow, Die. Hello and welcome, Ashley.
Ashley:
Hi, Robert.
Robert:
So nice to have you here, freshly back on our shores from Korea. Thank you, thank you. What's the difference in weather between the two countries?
Ashley:
Not too bad right now. Actually, we had lovely weather in Korea, so it's turning into autumn, so coming into winter, but it's still relatively warm there.
Robert:
And we have the sun out here today in Sydney, so that's nice and fresh. I would like to start today's episode with the same question we ask everybody. Well, actually, we ask all the same questions all the time, but this particular question, I think, is the most fun. Ashley, are you a serious book person?
Ashley:
Well, at this stage, I have pretty much dedicated my entire life to books, so it would be very difficult for me to say no to that question.
Robert:
What do you think makes a serious book person?
Ashley:
I mean, just someone who loves books. Like, to me, that's what a serious book person is. Is a person who, you know, books are a significant part of their life, whether that's because they're involved in them in some way professionally or just because they love reading as a hobby, as a part of their life, as something that brings them comfort and joy and educates them about the world. I think if you are a person who likes libraries, who likes bookshops, who just feels comforted by the presence of books, if you are the kind of person who, when you walk into someone's home, you are immediately drawn to the bookshelves and you have to start looking at, like, Oh, what books does this person have? Which ones have I read? Then you're a serious book person.
Robert:
Is it a compliment to be called a serious book person?
Ashley:
I think so. I think readers are the best people. So yes, to me, that is a huge compliment.
Robert:
I was thinking about this actually. Like, I think sometimes the idea of being identified as being serious anything can maybe be taken the wrong way and can either make you sound like a nerd or boring, but that's not the case, right?
Ashley:
I mean, from my perspective, no. I'm very much inside the world though. Some of you have a skewed, maybe I'm biased.
Robert:
Well, I think I probably am too. So our next question, which I think follows really naturally on from that, really is about how you became the serious book person that you are or at least how you became the writer that you are. I really love to hear about the book or the story that really got you into books or writing. So would you like to tell us a little bit about what that book was?
Ashley:
Yeah, sure. And it's an interesting question because I always loved books. I had wonderful parents who made sure we had books in the house and who read us books as kids, me and my sister. And so I wrote a story when I was in grade one in Saskatchewan, Canada, and it was selected by the teacher to be in the school district anthology. So the Young Saskatchewan Writer School District anthology for that year. And I am sure that story was wildly plagiarised from some picture book that I'd read, right? Because it was like three lines long. It was called The Wizard Who Had a Cat. And it was about this wizard who turned all the kids in his school, in his community, into frogs. So made no sense. But it was such a big deal to be published in this book. It had staples in the middle. But it was all the all the grades from kindergarten up through grade 12. And so I felt like, oh, like, look at me. And I wish I could remember the picture book that I have clearly plagiarised, but I have no memory of that at all. So the first the first book that I really remember that has really stuck with me all these years is The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Jester. Do you know it?
Robert:
No, I don't.
Ashley:
It's a wonderful classic. And it's just about this, you know, boy who's, you know, a school kid. His name's Milo. And he's just like not interested in anything. And he's just kind of like bored by everything. And then he shows up at home one day and there's just this package in his room. And it's this like, construct your own toll booth. So he's like, well, I'm not really interested, but I have nothing better to do. So I guess I'll make this toll booth. And then so he goes through and he puts a little ticket in and he goes through the toll booth and then he enters this magical realm and then he meets this, this dog called Tiktok and they have to go on this adventure, of course. And and it plays with language a lot. And I just, I just, I think that was the surprise of the book. I don't know, but I just loved it. And it's really, it has stuck with me all these years. And I buy it for all my nieces and nephews. And yeah, so I think it's something about stepping into a magical world that books allow you to do that. That particular story really brought that feeling to life.
Robert:
I feel like there was a real genre of kids' books at one point in time was always about like going through portals into things.
Ashley:
Haha yes.
Robert:
I mean, obviously Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe. I remember like this book that I loved when I was young, which was called Meryll of the Stones by Brian Caswell. It's in a kind of like an Australian youth classic, if that makes sense, where literally she walks into this ancient stone ampitheater and she gets transported into like another realm sort of thing. And I don't know what it was about that for kids that gets them into stories. Do you think it's like, like you say, is it just escapism?
Ashley:
I think it might be something about mirroring the experience of the book itself. Like, and this is I think why this book stuck with me is because the book is like stepping into another world. And so you're just mirroring that within the story in a more like like literal way. But it's it's reflecting that back, maybe.
Robert:
Yeah, I guess there's the question that I have that follows this is often really closely linked to this, because I think it has a lot to do with the family that you grew up in or the teachers that you had. But who is the person that you think most influenced your love of stories?
Ashley:
I think it has to be my parents, really. Like I had great teachers who really supported me and encouraged me. But really something that stands out to me actually is of course, I wrote terrible poetry as a young person and as a teenager. That was, you know, alongside my my little stories, I wrote awful, awful poems and inflicted them on all my family members. And we were living on Vancouver Island when I was from when I was 10 to when I was 14. So this probably would have been about when I was 12. I'd written some poem probably for a school thing and very generic, right? Like just about how beautiful the Canadian prairies are. And my dad was looking at the newspaper one morning and he said, Oh, Ashley, there's a competition where you can submit your poems, like mail them in. I think we should do we should send that poem in. And the thing about my dad is he's not a reader. Like he had a very, very successful military career, but he was not supported when he was a young kid in terms of his reading. He went to a very harsh Catholic school and so he doesn't engage with books. Like he's not it's not even about being a serious book person. He is not a book person. And so the fact that he was like, oh, like identified this opportunity for me and wanted to submit my poem to it was really lovely. And the thing was I submitted the poem and then it was like, oh, your poem has been selected. Like, like you're going to be published in this like giant, leather bound volume that you can buy for $50. And of course, of course, my parents bought this for me and you know, very proud place on the shelf. And then now they've got my address, right? So then they're sending me info about next year's contest. Anyways, this went on predictably for about four years. And my dad said, I think we've bought enough of these books now.
Robert:
Out of interest, though, did you actually have a poem in all of the books that you bought?
Ashley:
Yes. Yes.
Robert:
And there was really is a scam.
Ashley:
There was about, I'd say, conservatively 900 poems in each of these books. Like, I think the only qualification to get in was it had to be short enough that they could fit it on a page with another poem. So yeah, I'm I'm sure it was a scam, but it was. It still had the power of making me feel like, oh, like, look, I'm a real published author. I'm in this like serious poetry book. And and is one of, again, the memories that really stand out to me of a moment when someone in my life who wasn't a reader really wanted to help me to support my interest.
Robert:
Yeah. Do you still have them?
Ashley:
Yes, I do. They're on my shelf in Canada. I made my mum drag them out of, you know, whatever closet they were in a while ago for something. And there yeah, there's four volumes in their leather bound. They look very serious. It's like gold embossed, you know, poetry volume, whatever on the cover. And they look they look very, very serious. But now reading the poems as an adult, like, oh, like, you really just took anything.
Robert:
You're going to have to get your mum to take a photo of them for us because I would love to see them. And maybe we can pop it on our Instagram so everybody who's listening can have a look too.
Ashley:
Excellent. Yes, I will do that.
Robert:
I mean, I just want to pick up on this idea that like family is the thing that got you into storytelling. Does that mean that you ever had moments where you were read to as well? Because I'm always interested to know if people when they were younger had stories read to them before they were actually reading and what kind of stories those were.
Ashley:
Yeah. Yeah. My parents, I think we had reading time every night at bedtime and they still have all the picture books that, you know, were the ones that they read to us as a kid. And now my nieces when I go home, they're a little old now, but in previous years when I went back to Canada, I would get to read those same picture books to them. And it was really wonderful because I remembered all these stories that I must have heard a hundred times. And my dad said, oh, we read those to you just over and over. You just wanted the same stories. And I then got to read them to my nieces and activated, you know, memories in my brain that I hadn't thought about for 30 years. So that was I'm so glad my parents kept like they've kept everything. But I'm so glad, particularly, that they kept those books. So, yes, they definitely read to me. And then I also remember my mum very actively, you know, we went to the library, like that was a thing we did on weekends. And I got into this sort of Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys phase. And then I'd read all the ones that the library had. And then I sort of was in this funk of like, well, that's all I want to read. I just want to read Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. My mum really insistently picking other books off the shelf and being like, well, this one sounds interesting because it's about time travel and you should try this. So really actively encouraging me to read.
Robert:
Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. I feel like that's where every crime writer starts out…
Ashley:
Hahaha
Robert:
…because you write crime now. So I'm surprised you haven't come up with your own little troop. I actually really loved Trixie Belden. Did you ever read her?
Ashley:
Oh no. I don't think she was as popular in Canada.
Robert:
I feel like she must be in it. I'm sure that she was like an American… character, like written by I can't remember who wrote the Trixie Belden novels. But for some reason I was obsessed with those. And I do think those like for both crime readers and crime writers, like that… Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Trixie Belden, they're actually like where the… the germ of all of those came from, maybe even Scooby Doo.
Ashley:
Oh, yeah. Yes. Definitely mystery solving all over it.
Robert:
Probably not as twisty as the crime novels that we have now, because it was usually just a man in a mask.
Ashley:
I was going to say it's always the same twist in Scooby Doo. It's like literally just like who's wearing the mask.
Robert:
Just the guy that works in the garden wearing a dog mask. That's who that's who is actually at play.
My final question for you is I think a really interesting one, because I think, you know, we often think about the book that got us into reading and we often think about, you know, the person that started us on this journey. But I also think we tie place to books as well. And I'm really interested to know if there's a particular place that you go when you just want to immerse yourself in stories. And that doesn't have to be where you go and read. Maybe it's where you like to go and write. Like I'm interested to know what feels, I guess, most comfortable when you just want to disappear into story, story land.
Ashley:
Well, in terms of reading, I read everywhere. And I was always known like in high school and university, I was always known as being the person who literally always had a book on me and would just have it open if I had any time.
[...]
So I and I still now like a big, big audiobook fan. So I, you know, always have an audiobook on. And so it's just kind of immersed into my daily life. Just I'll be brushing my teeth and listening to an audiobook. In terms of writing, I love to go away. So there's nothing I love more than a writer's retreat or even just like lock me in a hotel room. There's something about taking myself out of my daily routine and out of my daily space because I think there's so many distractions. Like I have a little office at home, which is wonderful. Like I feel so lucky to have a dedicated space in my home with a door. I can close, but there's still, you know, all the piles of books that I need to read and and all the sort of post-it notes of like 57 things I need to remember. And my calendars on the wall, I can go into a hotel room. There's like nothing in there that I have to do other than work on my writing. And so it is that immersion. Like you use the word like immerse yourself. And so I just love to go if I'm on writers retreat with other writers. Work all day and then just spend the evening talking about the work and talking about their work and just being 100 percent in that creative space. It is the most magical, wonderful thing. And I do it as often as possible.
Robert:
I don't know why, but when you described being locked in a hotel room, I immediately imagined you like being handcuffed to the bed so that you couldn't be distracted.
Ashley:
Hahaha. I mean, we might get to that point. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm willing to try anything.
Robert:
I also wonder, you know, like if you go away with other writers, then are you not tempted, I guess, to just go and chat to them during the day? Can like, how do you in that situation immerse yourself properly without being distracted by being surrounded by other people who you love? And I assume love their stories as well.
Ashley:
I think we often go on retreat when we're in the midst of a project that has a deadline. So the deadline is basically the handcuffs, right? And that we're all sort of supportive of each other. Like I'm not going to bother you because I know that you're working on your project that has your deadline. And also I know I'm going to see you in the evening. So we're going to spend the evening together. We're not going to work 16 hours a day, right? We're going to take our break and we're going to have our cheese and our wine and enjoy ourselves in the evening.
But it's kind of Veruna House Rules. So Veruna, the National Writers House, the rules there are sort of between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. Like you don't disturb the other writers. Like that's just the house rules. And so on my writing retreats, we always adopt that kind of same policy. We might make a plan to go for a walk or something just to have a little break. But then we're like back to our desks, back to our respective spaces because we have work to do.
Robert:
I think that's obviously very clever. But now I want to know if you up at night chatting about books all night long, how often then do you wake up the next day with your deadline looming with a hangover?
Ashley:
Hahaha. That that has happened. I won't go into any more details there, Robert, but I can I can say that on occasion that is definitely a risk.
Robert:
Ashley, thank you so much for giving us such a wonderful insight into your obsession with stories. It's time now for all our podcast listeners to make a point of grabbing copies of all of Ashley's books and to keep an eye out for her latest, which is Like, Follow, Die, a thriller that shines a light on the darkest corners of the Internet and delves into the very real threat of online radicalisation. If you love Netflix's acclaimed series, Adolescence, you're going to love Like, Follow, Die, which is out in March. We have a link to all of Ashley's crime novels in print, e-book and audio in our show notes for today's episodes. So go check them out right now. Thank you so much, Ashley.
Ashley:
Thank you, Robert. It was very fun.
Music Interlude
Robert:
If you enjoyed this conversation, please remember to follow I'm a Serious Book Person wherever you get your podcasts. A quick follow really helps us reach many more book lovers. Also, you can keep up with all the incredible titles and authors that we discussed by following Ultimo Press on all our social media channels. Finally, I would like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadigal people of The Eora Nation, and I pay our deepest respects to their Elders past and present. I'm a Serious Book Person is hosted by me, Robert Watkins, and is produced by Andrea Johnson and Murray Nance. Until next time, keep reading.
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