Alternative Colchester #8

Episode 8 of Alternative Colchester sees Steve Green and Tim Young welcome Ben Howard from Keep Colchester Cool to the show. Ben fits into the Alternative Colchester setup like a well-worn leather jacket — comfortable, sharp and full of character, with plenty to say about football and punk rock in equal measure.

The football chat is particularly rich this week. Colchester United's anticipated takeover by a John Terry-led consortium provides plenty of optimism and excitement, while the Tractor Boys' derby win at Norwich is dissected by Tim and producer Luke alongside broader football chat that keeps the banter lively throughout.

The music is the real star though, with a tracklist that reads like a love letter to first wave punk. John Cooper Clarke opens with Suspended Sentence, The Boys follow with Cast Of Thousands, and The Damned deliver the gorgeous Love Song. The Germs bring LA punk fury with Lexicon Devil, The Saints make a long overdue appearance with This Perfect Day, and The Stranglers deliver their gloriously menacing take on Walk On By. XSLF contribute Here We Are Nowhere, Crass — much to Steve's objection — arrive with the uncompromising So What, and Sweden's Dead Pollys tip their hat to a certain Mr Strummer. A classic Monty Python interlude keeps things delightfully unpredictable, before the obligatory Stiff Little Fingers track Mr Fire Coal Man and The Clash's Protex Blue round things off perfectly. Essential listening.

www.alternativecolchester.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_09 0:29

Hello everyone and welcome to episode eight of Alternative Coltester. My name's Tim Young, supporter of the Undisputed Kings of East Anglia Ipswich Town.

SPEAKER_10 0:38

And my name is Steve Green, and I can't remember who scored our goals last time we played at Carroe because we scored so many. But more importantly, we've got a very special guest this episode, Tim.

SPEAKER_09 0:51

Yeah, we have, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Do you want to introduce yourself, young man? Hi, thanks for the young man's sketch. Um yeah, my name is Ben Howard. Um the founder of Keep Cultures to Call, and uh I'm here under duress.

SPEAKER_09 1:02

Under Duress and um and because we asked him, and because he helps us with our website and did an interview with us on Keep Cultures to Call. So we thought we'd return the favour, Steve, didn't we? Yeah, well we thought we were doing a favour.

SPEAKER_10 1:14

He doesn't sound very appreciative, does he? No, but he does support Cole You. He does support Cole You, but he's got some dodgy I say this about all our guests. He's got some dodgy choices.

SPEAKER_09 1:23

Dodgy choices, and he's also got a fondness for Manu. Which is the second one we've had.

SPEAKER_10 1:28

Yeah, yeah. Cole U and Manu. I don't know, you tell me. I've seen him play us twice. Play play them twice, Manu, 79 and 82. I've seen us beat them 6-0. Have you ever seen your team score seven? Not at Carrow Road, no. Right, okay, we got a bit accused of going a bit over on the last episode with uh Sir Lord Anthony Roberts. Ben's a lot more succinct and concise. Well, he's definitely got shorter choice tracks, that's for sure. And they are actually um they meet the criteria. They're good. On the whole, they're good. Yeah. Um right, so on that note, maybe we should start with Ben's first choice. It definitely gets my seal of approval. Um John Cooper Clark suspended sentence. What what what's the attraction? What's the relevance of that song in your world, Ben?

SPEAKER_04 2:19

Uh I think for me I had to choose the John Cooper Clark, a Colchester resident. Um a man that when I see him at Giggs or wherever I see him, I'm in awe of the fact I've only just spoken to him once over the phone, I'm just scared of him in terms of his presence, you know, it's just a legend that lives amongst us. Um and this track, I picked it because it was the first uh John Cooper Clark track I've ever heard. And there's been others since that I've played in DJ and things like that. But but for this one, I think for me um I mean what a statement of intent from him really. And I feel like the the the the the content of it, the kind of um his observation that ek everyone's up for executing anyone for anything, I don't think that's too far away from where some how some people think now. So even though it's in 1977, it still kind of stands on its own right. But yeah, John Cooper Clark, what what a what a great man, really.

SPEAKER_10 3:17

He is a legend and I see him all the he always seems to be walking up and down um Hive Hill on the street. Yeah. Yeah, but he d are you sure he doesn't live on the street because I've never seen him?

SPEAKER_09 3:26

He I know exactly where he lives, but we're with that's privileged information because he lives just up the road from me.

SPEAKER_10 3:30

Okay, but uh and he and he is fantastic. I saw it like I've said before that I saw him at the Ipswich Game on in 1979 supporting Richard Ellen of Voidoids and Elvis Costello. Um he was actually encouraged to perform um at punk clubs in 1977 by Howard Devoto of the Buzzcocks who loved his stuff, and John Cooper Clark's mum loved Pam Ayers on Opportunity Knox and said to JCC, uh maybe there is uh a living to be made out of being a poet. So who would have been a couple of performance poetry?

SPEAKER_09 4:03

I I've met John Cooper Clark and Pam Ayers, not at the same time in different occasions, but I think that's a claim to fame I ought to have put it out there.

SPEAKER_10 4:10

Okay, well this track you've chosen has actually got music with it as well, hasn't it? Because uh obviously John Cooper Clark, a lot of his stuff is just spoken word. But as the time was punk rock, I suppose it's got a bit of a punk rock uh sound going on there as well, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Yeah, I think it's produced by a guy called Martin Hannett who did stuff with Joy Division, things like that. So yeah, it as I say it stands stands a test of time pretty well.

SPEAKER_10 4:33

Yeah. Okay, shall we hear it? Yeah, let's hear it. Suspended sentence by John Cooper Clark.

SPEAKER_07 5:01

On the drum and Larry Gatta, page one, eat die, no um, page three, big bomb, give it a lunar stick, a loaded gum, the one on the drum, 30 deck, no thumb, fabulous, featureless figures of thumb, do something destructive, jump right down, right a letter to the thumb stay, bring back up here, but everyone They took my advice, they brought it back. National costume was all over black that were caught in the avenues and called it back, filed up neatly in six-man stat, hanging from the traffic lights and special made racks, then I'm you for incontinence and fiddle in your tack. Failure to hang yourself justified the act, a deep bee, bee-duly-dum, try the problem, but um, for everyone! The novelty's gone! It's fell, it's place is uh, that's well the gun, the clang of the funeral bells. Those who are hanging a hanging somewhere else, the people pay, the paper spells it's all goblets, some animal yells. Death is on cycling, death smells, swinging Britain, don't put me on. They're gonna bring back the rope for everyone.

SPEAKER_10 7:17

Suspended sentence, John Cooper Clark. I mean it's absolute silence in here listening to that. Normally we talk over tracks and things, but as the lyrics are fantastic, but he's a great poet.

SPEAKER_09 7:28

Um and he's uh he can be an interesting performer when you you see him live. Um he's not always reliable, but he's uh I've read his autobiography as well, which is amazing. I want to be yours. Uh I think Ben chose that attract for one reason and one reason alone. I think John Cooper Clark is the only man with thinner legs than Ben in Colchester.

SPEAKER_10 7:49

Well, we need to get John Cooper Clark on the show. How do we do that? Can we task you with that, Ben? Can you phone him for a second time?

SPEAKER_04 7:55

No, well also the time it is speaking on the phone. I took the call. When I was at Colchester Art Centre, I didn't phone him up. John Cooper Clark called you. He called the Art Centre and I took the call. Right. And what it was, it's for the guest list for his sold-out show at the Art Centre. Fantastic. And it was as long as you can imagine. It was wonderful. It was like a performance, him just reading it out to me, thinking, we're already sold out. This is huge.

SPEAKER_10 8:19

Um yeah, love lovely. Somebody asked him about punk in 1977, and he actually said that it had punk had revived an interest in words. Yeah. Which I think is a fantastic thing to say.

SPEAKER_09 8:33

Uh I went to a wedding where John Cooper Clark was the ring holder. And um he uh performed at the reception. And I asked him to do Chicken Town and he did. And he said, I'm sorry for any of the children that are here. But that's my terrible John Cooper Clark.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

I DJ'd at a wedding where I knew John Cooper Clark was a guest.

SPEAKER_09 8:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

And I took went online and found out some of his favourite songs are like regular tracks, and I made sure that during my DJ set I played the songs at Johnny Cooper Clark, and he was out dancing, and I was like, I made John Cooper Clark dance. But what he doesn't know is I kind of did my research to find out what tracks he liked, otherwise he'd have been throwing apples at me and other brothers fruits.

SPEAKER_10 9:17

It's quite hard to get older as well.

SPEAKER_09 9:19

He's on Countdown and other Oh, he's he's been on Would I Lie To You, he's brilliant on that. Yeah, he's a he's a funny bloke. Can we talk about football, Steve? We can. Because um we won the East Angler, we've done the double over Norwich City this season. Luke and I are very, very happy about that. Um Luke thought the penalty was dodgy. I thought it was a clear-cut penalty. We but we do agree that uh Nunes should have been sent off, he should have got three yellow cards at least. Uh but we don't care because we've got two now and we've done the double over them, we've stopped any any wild dreams they had about the playoffs, and uh we are now which you've got one foot in your whole position and it was all good.

SPEAKER_10 10:03

It was a potential banana skin, and they were in form, but they were terrible, Luke, weren't they?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah, they weren't good, they didn't they didn't trouble the chance. But I the penalty I'd I just I I've seen him giving, I just feel it was quite soft. I think Taylor's bought it. Good old Jack, but yeah, I'm not complaining about that.

SPEAKER_09 10:21

No, it was great, and the way Philogene put it away was worth worth it all life.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

I thought he was gonna take it left footed.

SPEAKER_09 10:26

So did I, he lined up as those because he is two-footed, Philogene. He lined up. These two are really interested in this, it's great. You can see their faces and he wandered up and he just knocked it in the corner, and it was wonderful.

SPEAKER_10 10:39

So, in the interest of balance, the night before League Two's informed team came to the community stadium, Swindon Town, and Colchester absolutely smashed them off the park. 3-0 could have been 10-nil. That's because they had a player sent off in first time. We'd already hit the bar twice before that player got sent off, and he was deservedly sent off for a lunge that could have ended somebody's career. And then, of course, Olly, the manager, like Oli. He got sent off as a reason why Colster uh Swindon made five substitutions, and every time they made a substitution, they turned no one out so read their name out, and the crowd shouted, ooh! So he read the name out again, and Olly got pissed off with that, complained, and in no uncertain terms, used some foul language and was uh sent off. So uh yeah, good they had by all. Now we wondered why the players had such a had were so up for it on Friday night when we had nothing to play for. And of course now we all know John Terry's taking over the club and uh we're gonna be the next Wrexham.

SPEAKER_09 11:46

I can't believe we've won East Anglian Derby and we're talking talking so much about Cole U. John Terry, do you really want him in your club? Yeah. Why?

SPEAKER_10 11:55

Yeah. Have you seen some of his views and some of his behaviour over the years? Fantastic player for Chelsea and England, and a winner. He's a winner. He's a winner. Okay, well, we've got a football song coming up. Right.

SPEAKER_09 12:10

Do you want to hear it? Do you want to talk some more about football? No, I'm I'm so happy. I'm wearing my Edge Shearer and Ipswich shirt.

SPEAKER_10 12:16

Okay, well, on my 16th birthday in 1978, so this would have been March of 17th, 1978, the boys released their follow-up album to their classic debut, and it was called Alternative Chartbusters, and it featured a track called A Cast of Thousands. And it is very, very football oriented. So do you want to hear it? I'd love to hear it, Steve. Okay, that's it, the boys cast of thousands. All about it, Cast of Thousands by the boys from their classic Power Pop album of 1978, Alternative Chartbusters. So we've got Ben Howard from Keith Colchester Cool as our special guest in the studio today, and I think during that song, Tim, you uh you were saying you wanted to hear more about his Man United fandom.

SPEAKER_09 16:12

Well, I don't I never understand anybody who supports Man United. He's he's from the right part of the world to support Man United. He's got the right accent. He's got the right accent. So why Man United, Ben?

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Fam Start of family. Are they from Manchester? My mum's side of the family is put that way. However, my old man supported United, as does my uncle. Do you know why? Do you know what I think Is it the best Lord Charlton? Yeah, it's probably glory hunting in its early form.

SPEAKER_09 16:38

Yeah. Um So have you got any Manchester United have you got a Man United shirt? Have you got any Man United mugs or anything to recognizeably buying?

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Over the years I have had a number of those uh things. Right. However, unlike you, when I got to my forties, I didn't want to be seen in replica shirts. So I gave them all away. In fact I threw them away because I couldn't I couldn't bear to anyone else to have them. No true story, yeah. So I ditched them all.

SPEAKER_09 17:06

So you were supporting them what, the Canton I years and Solskjaer Ferguson?

SPEAKER_04 17:12

First game I remember 77 FA Cup final. Alright. I remember that uh losing no beating Liverpool, losing lost to Southampton. Can't really remember that, but 77 I can remember. A 78 cup final was the best. I can remember 78 because in the street I lived, people got all the bunting from the Jubilee and put it up because Ipswich won the FA Cup, which I thought was quite small time, really. And then the following year 79 was the first game that ever made me cry. Which was Arsenal. Man United Arsenal and United got back to two or one. Alan Sunderland. He played for Ipswich. He did, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 17:50

Um so yeah, uh I've always bought United, but you know, um the But then you've compounded that by then having a soft spot for Colchester United. Yeah. What is the matter with you?

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Um well you t you tend to support where you live as well, don't you? You have your sort of local team.

SPEAKER_10 18:09

Are you from Colchester then? No, I'm from Sudbury originally. It's a Suffolk boy. Or Sudbury. If I lived in Sudbury or I'd come from Sudbury, I'd support Sudbury. Well, it probably does.

SPEAKER_09 18:20

Do you have a soft spot for Sudbury? I used to go and watch Sudbury a lot when I was younger. Like I used to watch Clankton.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Yeah. But you know, you you back a team, don't you? You back a team. What I like about it is, you know, my nephew supports United, my son supports United. It just goes on. And th and wild Eric supports United. But they've not been grown up in a time of United are any good.

SPEAKER_09 18:39

Eric's true, did you say? That's uh Ben's son. Well, after Eric Cantanar.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

Inspired by a number of Erics in the world.

SPEAKER_09 18:44

Every Morcom, Eric Idle, Eric Idle, I hope so.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

There's all good Erics.

SPEAKER_09 18:48

There's a lot of good Erics, and your son's one of them.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

Yeah, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_09 18:51

Eric Half the Bee?

SPEAKER_04 18:52

Eric the Half B. I mean, when you go too deep into Eric's, you came up in dodgy territory, but as an overview, it was a good solid name. Fair enough. Who did John Cooper Clark support? Salford. No, he's he's Manu, I think. Manu, because he did a thing with Monster Florence in Manchester United.

SPEAKER_09 19:09

He did Colchester Band. He's a ma he's a Salford lad, and he's from that way, and he supports Man U very unusually. Well, we're talking about our love of football here and our love of our football clubs, so I think we should hear a love song, don't you? It's your choice. This is my first choice, and um we're going to see The Damned, aren't we? In August in Colchester. Yep, supporting Hollywood vampires. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 19:32

And they played at um Wembley at the weekend.

SPEAKER_09 19:34

It's their 50th anniversary. Yeah, and I think it's the original lineup without obviously Brian James.

SPEAKER_10 19:40

Brian James with us, so uh But they did play, didn't they, at the weekend? Yeah. And um they had Peter uh Hook Hook and Mark Ormond. I think they kind of like had made sure they had a few other well-known artists on there because surely the damned couldn't feel uh uh was it the O2? No, it was Wembley Arena. Wembley Arena. That's a hell of a uh venue for a band like the damned, isn't it? I mean hats off to them. Well they are legendary.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

Yeah, I think I think any band that sort of ticks that box of uh sort of legendary status and also when nostalgia comes in as well. So I think you know, I'm my fifties, you guys are also in your fifties. Um but no, but there's but no. The point the point is I think we will always go and see bands that that would be when we were growing up, for example. Um I think people have this kind of fear of never getting to see them again. So I'm never surprised when b bands like The Damned sell out because there's a lot of people like us who want to grab that moment again. I'm looking forward to seeing them in Castle Park.

SPEAKER_09 20:44

Yeah, it should be great. Anyway, let's hear let's hear the damn. This is my choice because I think this is ironic, but here's a love song, but I'm gonna do it. The legendary damned and uh love song, and um one of the best damned songs. I really like that one.

SPEAKER_10 22:59

What w what's easy to forget is that was actually a comeback song because they split up in 1978, The Damned. Uh Brian James uh left and went on to do things like Lords of the New Church. Um but the band uh carried on without him, which was not easy because he wrote all the songs. Um and a lot of songs, their comeback song that was on top of the box, and it got number 20 in the UK chart, they should have got a lot higher. I think punk had become almost mainstream by then. You know, in the year that they weren't around in 78, 79. Um you know, it wasn't unusual to see a punk band on top of the box, was it? I mean, they were in the chart. It was a great time.

SPEAKER_09 23:40

Yeah. Dave Vanian, notoriously difficult to work with, but a great front man and a really good singer. Um but yeah, really looking forward to seeing them.

SPEAKER_10 23:48

I had four copies of that single because each single, each sleeve had what a different member of that.

SPEAKER_09 23:54

I had the one with Dave Vanian on. 21st of August, Hollywood Vampires and the Damned Castle Park. Altern your alternative Colchester hosts will both be there in the VIP area, of course.

SPEAKER_10 24:05

Yeah. Not by invitation though.

SPEAKER_09 24:09

We've shelled out for it. Yeah. Ben, Ben Howard is with us from Keith Colchester Cool. Tell us a bit about Keep Colchester Cool, Ben, and why you set it up and um it's still going after quite a while now, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 24:21

Yes, I have now 17 years, so yeah, I just felt um it was it came about because I was speaking to someone who said in Mr. Gig and they didn't know about it. And I was like, wow, like this is you know, there's loads going on, but you can't find out things going on. Yeah, the Gazette and things like that, but it was no definitive kind of listing. So that lunchtime I just kind of created a Facebook page and a group and just started listing events. My autistic self fit for gear. Um and it just grown from there. And um it's a runaway train where I can't stop. So um yeah, so it's now a website and theatre reviews. Theatre reviews, Paul T. Davies, Legend and you of course, sorry, Tim. Um Yeah, um but yeah. Um but yeah, so basically it's um it's it's it's a website where um we list we try to list I want to say we, it's really me. List every event that's happened in Colchester that kind of fits a criteria of being great. Um and then publish interviews with really good people such as Alternative Colchester. Um I try and D out the people that maybe not all don't always get great coverage reserve. I don't uh what I mean is the Gazette does a really good job of championing Colchester at times. But I like to go under the bonnet a bit deeper and ask people the questions that the paper can't, I suppose.

SPEAKER_10 25:40

So um you have to ask yourself, you know, how many people still read the Gazette as well? Because I mean the the digital uh side, yeah. I mean I I read it um and I do pay my pound a week or whatever it is, because those firewalls are absolutely so annoying when you can't read a story.

SPEAKER_09 25:59

Um random on the Gazette, which ones they put the firewall up for?

SPEAKER_10 26:03

I think they're not gonna put where they've stolen the the news from somewhere else because they're not allowed to put a firewall up for that.

SPEAKER_09 26:11

I still I still get the printed paint on delivered. Yeah, I'm very old for it. I'm very old.

SPEAKER_10 26:16

Don't you feel sorry if you're a paper boy?

SPEAKER_09 26:18

It's a it's a paper adult.

SPEAKER_10 26:19

Is it?

SPEAKER_09 26:22

Well, I know, I think I'm keeping somebody in the job.

SPEAKER_10 26:25

Yeah, well done.

SPEAKER_09 26:29

I don't know. I don't know. It seems to just deliver to my house in art right.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

I think you know, I d I do think eventually the print copy of the Gazette would disappear. It should be a shame, I think. Well it will, but the people that buy it won't won't lo will no longer be around the reader. But no, I think eventually it will it will it will die like that. It will, but then the online thing, I mean that that I mean I know I write for the Gazette, but that that that feels uh the way media's gone now, which is a lot of clickbait and a lot of headlines that compel you to find out more and then it's just sensationalism. But I I don't think that's a that's not a d dig at the gazette, that's a d dig at online media. And going back to keep Colchester cool, I'll always champion what's great about Colchester. I won't use the the platform to have a s a dig at anyone. The reviews are positive, the the the the the culture is positive, there's a lot to celebrate in Colchester. Absolutely, and we don't have enough of that, do we?

SPEAKER_09 27:25

We people denigrate Colchester, but actually it's a lot going on and culturally fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

And quite frankly, my my views on my website are growing month by month because the content's getting better because I've got more time to de dedicate to it now. So I know it's got a place, a really important place. So although we're now seventeen years in, no let up, there's no getting out of this.

SPEAKER_09 27:44

And what is it, QColchesterCool.co.uk. So sign up to that website, it's absolutely brilliant. Ben, tell us about your next song.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

Yeah, so I mean this this really goes back I mean I'll probably talk about my brother a bit more for the last track I choose, but um uh later on in the eighties, one Christmas my brother got me a couple of albums I didn't ask for, typically. But one was a band called JFA, Jodie Foster's Army Army, and one was a band called Circle Jerks, which are these American punk bands. And of course uh some of that stuff is my favourite punk, but I wanted to go back a little bit and pick stuff that sort of suited the show. And I went back to um some early, sort of uh earliest for me anyway, LA um punk. Um band called The Germs Lexican Devil because it sounded British at the time. I mean I found it later on, but I remember hearing it the first time thinking, Who's this? Thinking it was a British UK punk band. And it wasn't, and they went on to inspire bands like JFA and um that whole American punk scene I think is punk, because American punk sort of changed shape so much as it went on. Yeah, and the more that stuff I never connected with. But I think that sort of late seventies to kind of mid-80s stuff is is is stuff I really think.

SPEAKER_10 28:58

The main thing that was going on there is like punk explosion in the UK was mainly working class and the UK was having a dire time of things with rights and unemployment. And so the youth had a real reason to rebel. Strangely, the the California thing um was mainly middle class, like West Hollywood and uh West of Los Angeles with lots of middle class kids uh you know, on skateboards or on the they like the music. Um and in fact the people in in East LA were um non-white, but they like their punk music as well, but they weren't really very welcome in the West Side of um Los Angeles. Um because it is actually after the 77 era of punk, it becomes my next favourite part of the genre. So American punk rock is something that I really, really do study quite a lot. I mean Darby Crash at least in the um he came to the UK when he was in his teens and believe it or not got obsessed with Adam Anne. So when he went back to the stage, this is another typical American thing before he was taking back a real slice of UK punk rock, which unarguably wasn't. But sadly, he committed suicide when he was twenty-two. Um but not before he put out uh three great singles. Uh one was released um after his death, but one really fantastic album, which is the one your brother. Your brother did you a real favourite great album.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Yeah, and I think just going back to that, there's another film that we watched when we were younger called Suburbia 1983. Circle jerks, yeah, in the streets, yeah. Yeah, and I think again, being formative age, that I mean that's a film I've still got a DVD at home, but just being young and sort of open-eyed to all this stuff, and that's I mean, it's about music, but that introduction you get to music, and it can even shape you, make you shape you. Yeah, and I think I think that's probably why I'm so close to music now, because I it was inbuilt in me without me even realizing it.

SPEAKER_09 31:02

Okay, let's hear it. Let's hear Ben's second choice, which is Lexican Devil by the Germs, and we're gonna be able to do that. Great choice from Ben Howard there, Lexicon Devil by The Germs. Enjoyed that, Steve? Did you?

SPEAKER_10 33:14

Fantastic, absolutely brilliant, and um, you know, as I say, that one album that the Germs made, very, very influential album, and uh yeah, worth uh listening to the whole lot.

SPEAKER_09 33:24

Yeah, well done, Ben. Well done, Ben. Um Steve, we're moving on to another one of yours, unless you've got anything else to say about Cole Yu and John Terry.

SPEAKER_10 33:33

John Terry well hopefully I I'm hoping that uh Luke, the producer, is keeping an eye out for who the consortium is because I saw that Chelsea's director of football, um, who actually brought John Terry to Chelsea has uh uh has left Chelsea. So I'm putting two and two together there and getting seven, really. But I'll I'll have a look, but like like me, he probably doesn't care. JT, JT. We like him, we love JT.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

It wasn't that long ago you were hyping about Pato and then that fell flat on your face.

SPEAKER_10 34:03

But as as I said before we came on air, Pato and JT played in the same Chelsea team, so I'm actually putting another two and two together there and getting four million eight hundred thousand seven hundred and forty-nine on that one. Fair enough. On the music, on the music. I'm I now and again I like to go down the obscure and um this next brand, uh it just makes you wonder why some of these bands didn't go on to be absolutely huge. Well, what in what attracted me to the Riptides was the actual title of the song, 77 Sunset Strip. I actually think anything with the 77 in the title. They didn't know at the time that that was going to be the historic year that it turned out to be. But what's weird about this next band, the Riptides, is they were formed in 1977 and they were all students at the architecture department at the University of Queensland. Really? Yeah. Uh I didn't know that until I read it this morning before I came on the show because I thought I'd better go and do a little bit of research. She caught me out the other week on the Tear Jokers. I did, I did, so I didn't think it was possible. But there you go. I'm not going to fall into that again. And I also found out that they've had eighteen members between 1978 and 1991. Not at the same time. Er No, because there was only ever four of them in the band at any one time. Um although they really ended in nineteen eighty-two, and it's only that they do reunion shows in Australia that they've gone on to amass that amount of people in the band. But I'd say they were you know, why haven't we heard more of the Riptides? I'm you know, I this is such a fantastic song, and it just gotta be up there with the beginnings of Power Pop. Um do you want to hear it? I'd love to hear it. Alright, let's listen. A 77 Sunset Strip by the Riptides. That was Sunset Strip by the Riptides and um what a great song.

SPEAKER_09 39:10

Who loved it? We were really boffing away to that, weren't we? Do you know where they got the title from? I don't know, no? I think that was an American TV series, 77 Sunset Strip. Was it? I think so, yeah. I've caught him out again. I love it when I catch this.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

We need an in-house fact checker here. We do, we do.

SPEAKER_09 39:29

Stat man Dave over there. Check out 77 Sunset Strip.

SPEAKER_10 39:35

Instead of football fantasy, we could have punk rock fantasy and their states. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 39:42

I'm pretty sure 77 Sunset Strip was an American TV series. If I'm wrong, I will hold my hands up.

SPEAKER_10 39:48

Okay. I wouldn't mind having a property on Sunset Strip and having number 77. That'd be quite an iconic thing to have, wouldn't it? Absolutely, absolutely right. Another reason I chose that track is I thought it might be it make a nice lead into your next track. Yes. Um The Antipodean link. Which is Australia. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 40:08

Yeah? Yeah, I'm aware of that.

SPEAKER_10 40:10

Yeah, good, good. I just thought I'd say that to you, 'cause you are from Clacton originally, and an Ipswich town. Strong in the arm, they say, don't they?

SPEAKER_09 40:19

Yeah. I can't read and I can't write, but that don't really matter because I'm going down to Port Monroe driving on my tractor.

SPEAKER_10 40:27

You'd you'd expect the other team to sing that about you, but you wouldn't sing it yourself, would you? We don't care. We don't care.

SPEAKER_09 40:33

We don't care. No one likes you. We are we doubled Norwich City, we are the Kings of East Anglia. And what league are you in?

SPEAKER_10 40:40

It just went all quiet there, Kings of East Anglia.

SPEAKER_08 40:42

What league are you in?

SPEAKER_10 40:43

And what league will you be in next season? We're in League Two because Netflix loves a story that takes you from the bottom to the top, and JT will be doing that.

SPEAKER_09 40:53

Have you found out 77 Sunset Strip, Luke?

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Uh yes. 77 Sunstrip Sunset Strip. That's not easy for me to say. Um six seasons uh a drama from 1958. Thank you all. I do apologise. What's it about? I have no idea. No, nor do I.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

It was uh predicting punk scene in America. Australia.

SPEAKER_09 41:16

Oh yeah. Australia is where I now we've mentioned the this song in a previous episode, and when I went to see 909 recently in Ipswich, uh Red Flag 77 were the support band, and they did a cover of this song, and I remembered how good this song was. I've heard them do that cover loads of times.

SPEAKER_10 41:35

It's a great song, and they do a really good version of it.

SPEAKER_09 41:38

And the Saints, of course, are from Australia.

SPEAKER_10 41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 41:40

They were sort of big before UK Punk came.

SPEAKER_10 41:46

I'm Stranded came out in 1976, their first single, and that and it came out before New Rose, which meant of course it came out before Anarchy in the UK. Yeah. I don't think it came out before Blitzkrieg Bop in America, but you know. They were right up there, weren't they?

SPEAKER_09 42:00

And it's punk rock. It is punk rock, no doubt about it. And I I love this song, and uh it's what is it? I'm just checking on the board. Two minutes, eight seconds, so it's perfect. Perfect punk song. And Red Flag 77 certainly do it justice. But we're gonna hear this. Is it too late to talk about Richard Garcia? He's Australian and he played for Colchester. He went on to play for who did he play for where did he go to after Colchester? Hull? Hull.

SPEAKER_10 42:26

Yeah, because Parkey sort of took a few players there, didn't he? He wasn't a bad player, was he? He was a great player, fantastic player, yeah. When you say great player. No, he was a great player. He was a great player. Um He almost 1-0 up at Stanford Bridge, but almost but it was an own goal. We did go 1-0 up, but uh it it was an own goal, but it was an own goal forced by Richard Garcia. Fantastic Richard Garcia. Did he like the Saints? I think he went on to play for other teams as well. He certainly played on Hull. He went on to play for bigger teams on Hull.

SPEAKER_09 42:54

Yeah. But I I sort of contest great player. Yeah. Arnold Muren, great player. Paul Mariner, great player. They didn't play for Australia. Yeah, we had an Australian international, Andy Burnell. Andy Burn, it's probably before Luke's time. And Mass Mass played for Cameron Burgess? Yeah, and Cam Burgess.

SPEAKER_08 43:15

So we've we've had our Australian international. And who we had a was it or? No, who was the guy there was a We had Bradley Or for a while. He was done it with Australian.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Who was the guy we played he played left wing? He was he was a young Australian guy. I've only got myself to blame for it.

SPEAKER_09 43:31

I can't remember, look. You might have to research that as well. But in the meantime, let's play This Perfect Day by the Saints. This perfect day, a perfect punk song from the Saints, and we were just saying that they were they they were doing punk rock before UK bands were doing punk rock, which is an amazing thing to considering how far away they were as well.

SPEAKER_10 45:59

Incredible. You know, I mean what who would their influences have been? I mean I think would it have been like the Rolling Stones, maybe? New York dolls? Yeah, but yeah, it could have been New York Dolls, which just makes you wonder how they would have heard about them before you know bands in London.

SPEAKER_09 46:13

So much respect for the Saints. Great band, and that is a great, great song. Uh and it's actually got to number 34 franchise. Again, one that's gone so much when they were on top of the pops. They were on top of the pops. Luke, any news on the left winger we had? Yeah, it was Tommy Orr. Tommy Orr, yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yeah, we found it from Dutch football, I think. He didn't have many games, did he? Yeah. No, I see I knew it was ore. Yeah, yeah. Because we had Bradley Orr as well, didn't we? We did have Bradley Orr. Yeah. I think Tommy Orr was probably better. He was kind of hyped up to be quite a good play.

SPEAKER_09 46:43

And I thought he was L A R, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Well I think he did really well in Dutch top league. Yeah. Um and then we bought him, and I thought it was gonna it was another one of those players that we thought were gonna be absolutely amazing, that ripped it up abroad.

SPEAKER_10 47:00

So if you asked the question which one was better, you could have a sentence that said which one was better? Bradley Or the other one, I've already forgotten the other one's name. Tommy Orr. Bradley Or Bradley Orr or Tommy Organization.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

I think we're going down and we take out the Christian names and just go or or or or or who was better could come.

SPEAKER_09 47:20

There you are, town fans who listen to the podcast Who Was Better? Or or Or. We want to know. They were both awful.

SPEAKER_10 47:27

Oh Ben. Right, it's something it's another one we need to get cleared up because Ben's next track is the classic six minute twenty-two second version of Walk On By. Um. Yeah, it was uh written by Bert Backerak and Hal David for singer Dion Warwick in 1963. Yep. Um it got to number 21 in the UK charts, the strangers version, yeah, which was pretty impressive because the first 75,000 copies of the Black and White album, it was given away as a free final EP. Yeah. But it still then went on to sell enough copies to get it to number 21. Well the Great Band, you say now it did have a radio edit, but the single version was three minutes.

SPEAKER_09 48:19

I'm arguing this with Mr. Green, and it's very difficult. If you're on dangerous ground if you argue about punk rock with Steve Green. And I thought I had the single and it was the six minute version.

SPEAKER_10 48:29

Yeah. Well, like I say, the EP that was given away for you were black and white was the six minute version. But anyway, um then why walk on by Bother Stranglers?

SPEAKER_04 48:42

So my introduction to this as in the way I say it now is in the last ten years. Uh basically uh Twist is closed in December after bar in Colchester after twenty seven years, and I'd argue it's one of the if not the only venue in Colchester you could play what you wanted to not for a crowd, and included the punk. You could play anything, and the punters year in, year out would be up for it. It was a great venue. Sadly sadly ran out of time, really, in terms of people's tastes have changed and and habits have changed, so sadly it closed at Christmas.

SPEAKER_10 49:17

Um the twisters, twisters, oh twisters, sorry. Oliver Twists.

SPEAKER_04 49:26

No, twist yeah, Twisters had long more longevity than the twist. Um and uh the DJ works uh DJ with uh Sam Leopard, who uh works for Colchester City Council. Uh come to that subject later, I'm sure, maybe. But anyway, um he would play this track all the time at Twisters and uh I just fell in love with it. Every time we played it, I'd be like, Oh my god, this is so amazing. The six minute version to a crowd that completely got it, and then I'd say to him, 'Cause I could play it, but it wouldn't feel the same. So Sam Lecker just plays all the time at Twisters, and I fell in love with it in its entirety all over again. And I just think it's a brilliant cover version. And although it's punk, it's not you know, it's uh it's slow, it's um but uh it's all.

SPEAKER_10 50:16

The Stranglers could get away with absolutely anything and it'd be called punk, wouldn't it? Because they were just so good at everything they do. Yeah, and they didn't care.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 50:24

They didn't care about who what the punk thought a four-minute instrumental in the middle, you know, that'd be enough to turn a lot of people off. But Dave Greenfield's keyboards, John Jack Benell's bass and and and Q Cornwell's guitar. You put the three together and you could listen to it all day long, couldn't you?

SPEAKER_09 50:41

Don't forget Jet's drums.

SPEAKER_10 50:43

Jet's drums.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

And it is a work of art. I feel it's a really it's six minutes long, but it takes you on a journey throughout those six minutes. It's not it's not there for the sake of time.

SPEAKER_10 50:51

I think before the instrumental, doesn't he say go for a walk in the trees? And yeah, and it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing. So Ben's right, if you're listening to that on headphones in the dark, it does take you on the journey. You actually feel like you're going for a walk in those trees.

SPEAKER_09 51:04

It really makes me want to hear it. So let's play it. Walk on by by the Stranglers.

SPEAKER_14 51:28

Each time we meet Walk on Bob Walk on Bob.

SPEAKER_09 57:29

I didn't think I could love Ben Howard any more than I did, but um the what a choice. Walk on by by the Stranglers, Ben, you're a legend. It is one of the best cover versions, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 57:38

I know that's debatable, but that is a within. It's better than the original. Just taking it somewhere. I love the original, but that is something else. It's better than the original, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 57:46

It's better than the original, yeah. And yeah, fantastic. The Stranglers are, of course, my favourite band, so I'm gonna love it anyway, but um what a choice. Well done, Ben.

SPEAKER_10 57:54

Yeah, Ben, six minutes and twenty-odd seconds and twenty seconds. Nineteen seconds according to the six minutes and nineteen. Your show's three seconds off, doesn't he? He does, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 58:03

Yeah. Ben's seen me through some hard times. I'm really glad he's on the show today. Thank you, Ben. What a great choice. Fantastic. The Stranglers. Uh I looked up when I'm going to see the Stranglers, 16th of June at the Hampton Court Palace. With my wife, which I still find extraordinary. Mary Poppins is supporting the Stranglers at No, she's going to watch The Stranglers for the first time in her life. She'll love it. I think it will be life-changing for her. She will love it. She will love it. In uh in that venue, I think that'll be brilliant. So, yeah, the Stranglers are just something else. And so many different things to so many different people. Um Ben, well done. Well done. Steve, over to you.

SPEAKER_10 58:43

Yeah, well, we um we haven't talked about Stiff Little Fingers at all yet, have we? No, I mean we will do because we we've we've got the obligatory uh stiff little fingers track to come. But the other week we were at the Three Wise Monkeys when we saw X SLF.

SPEAKER_08 58:56

Yeah, were you anything to do with that, Ben?

SPEAKER_10 58:58

No, because I heard it was poorly attended. It it wasn't well attended at all. They were great.

SPEAKER_09 59:04

They were great. I still don't think You got the you got the credit or the liability for it from Mr. Green. I think it could have yeah, I said that it was used to.

SPEAKER_04 59:12

I mean I famously did put on um Eddie and the Hot Rods.

SPEAKER_10 59:15

Yeah, I got sixty people in and got in the neck because that was also poorly attended, and I thought that was Oh well I think they struggled to get sixty credits. I don't think there were sixty paid people there. It was such a shame because they were so good as well.

SPEAKER_04 59:27

Do you know what I've learnt though? Sometimes it's not about the turnout, it's about when you're there. I think you know, sometimes if it's less people, uh sometimes although I feel for the band, it's still a great night. And we did have a good night. The brands still enjoy the show, don't they? Still you've been in, you know, I'm sure you never played to no one, but but frankly, you're on stage and you've got five people interested, you're still playing to an audience, they're still exciting.

SPEAKER_10 59:47

We have played to five people. Um but yeah, and you have to play your best because those five people have paid good money to come see it. And XSLF did give it their best shot. It was surreal for us because we'd seen Stiff Little Fingers seven days earlier, there were three thousand people there. And with Henry Clooney who's he's a genius. Yeah, and he is as part of Stiff Little Fingers as as anyone, as Jake or anyone. Yeah. Um and he had two members of the Defects playing with him. Glenn, who's the founding member, and uh chief songwriter he told us of of the defects, but we didn't realise until after afterwards. Um and then they also had uh on bass guitar they had um Harvey, I think that's how you pronounce his name, um playing bass, and they were really, really good. Well w They were good. We got a great ending, probably the longest indent we've ever had, which we needed an excuse to play, and so fortunately at Three Wise Monkeys I recorded on my phone the classic. We're not gonna get sued on this, are we? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I own all the copyright of it now. Oh fairly copyrighted. Okay. So and um yeah, so this is um I recorded them doing Here We Are Nowhere, uh, which comes in at I Make It one minute four seconds, I'm sure um He's added a second Oh he's got it to one minute five, hasn't he? Yeah, okay. And then the indent I made that was 43 seconds, so nearly as long as the actual track. Um so forgive the quality if it's not uh brilliant, but this was actually done on my iPhone, um but stiffler fingers never do it live anyway, so it was a bit of a treat to hear it, wasn't it? It was great. Okay, let's hear Here We Are Nowhere by XSLF.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

How are you doing? I'm Glenn. I'm a songwriter and drummer from the D Fects and Fluction, and I play drums in X Stiff Little Fingers.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:48

Hey everyone, I'm uh Abby and I play bass for XSLF, also guitars for the Dfects.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:56

I'm Henry and I don't know what I'm doing. Oh yes, I I was in uh the undertones and I'm I in X undertones. So you just saw us tonight. Axe SLF, seriously, wait. And together we are XSL Henry to Alternate of Coach Lester, thank you, Henry and the boys.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:25

Um I tell you what, Tim, that was worth going to the gig. Not that we wouldn't have gone anyway, just to uh just to speak to them and get that in dent.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:32

It was brilliant, wasn't it? No, it was a great night. And um yeah, I went to see X SLF with Steve Green. Oh, I've got that on you know, I've got that now and that'll be in my memoirs. Look forward to reading about it. Yeah. It was a great gig. Yeah. And thanks for not being involved in not putting it on, Ben.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:49

Well, if I'd have been asked to help promote it, I could have made some more noise, couldn't I?

SPEAKER_10 1:03:53

It was such a coincidence, because it was only a couple of weeks prior to that I was saying to you XSLF would be a good band to get Free Wise Monkeys. I just don't think it was promoted well enough though. I mean, I know a lot of people that would have gone had they have known it was on.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Yeah, and look, uh I've put enough geeks with not a high turnout to know this, but you have to work so hard to get um a good crowd. And having worked for Colchester Arts Centre, they're they're sort of fortunate because they've got such a big database. But for the smaller venues, you've got to work three times as hard to get in front of people. And I don't know, I think when you've got a busy programme, sometimes geeks kind of pass you by, and I think that's what happened here. There was not a lot of noise about it, really. That's not and that's not criticism. That's a criticism of every smaller venue. I don't know if they want to make noise.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:39

I don't know what else they could have done um to to get it out of there. And they're selling out as well. And they deserved it, because it bothers me sometimes that is it a cultista thing, is it just Cultista doesn't want this sort of stuff? No, you because they do. You went to Ipswich to see 999 and and you said that was that was busy.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:00

Busy, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think um when you spoke to Ricky Flagg it's difficult fingers, he said what, 150, 200? Something like that. It was packed, it was a proper punk gig, you know, a proper punk pub.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:11

And Ricky is a forthcoming guest on uh alternate culture. And a town fan. He's a town fan as well. And he's bringing drummer of um Red Flag 77 with him as well, Fanny. Because Ricky can't drive, is he? Uh Fanny comes in handy as well, because not only was he is he the drama, he's a great drummer, by the way. Um but I was up in um the Rebellion Punk Festival as special duties years ago. And um only me and the drummer turned up. Um This is a punk thing. Was it even the drummer turned up? Yeah, I I don't know. I was in a remember in a hotel room in Blackpool and managed to get a guitarist who was either who was just visiting the show from America who said he knew all special duty songs, which sounded bizarre thing to say. Uh but he actually did. He actually did know them all. And um I think Fannie might have played no Fanny's not at least the bass guitarist of uh Red Plague 77. So yeah, so he played bass as a special duties bassist that night, and um Stuart the drummer was there and the four of us managed to put on a show. Well done. Well done, special duties. So we represented Colchester well that day. Right, so I said earlier in the show, at least I think I did, that we're gonna like stretch the criteria a little bit, and I got this um uh email from someone or or a messenger from somebody who'd clearly been seeing all the promotion I've been doing for Alternative Cultur, and he reached out to me, a Swedish guy called Niz Nilss, um and he said he's in a band called the Dead Pollies, which straight away made me think of Monty Python because of a dead parrot sketch. So I'm thinking how far do we stretch stretch the criteria here? Dead polys, dead parrots, Monty Python, okay, let me read on. And then he said he was been in the punk scene in Sweden since the early eighties, and I thought, 81, so you know, he's getting there, he's getting there. But then he told me that this uh record he'd uh they'd released was sort of uh in 2000s, so I thought, oh no, that's falling right outside the criteria, we can't have that. But I decided to listen to them because he said that he got into punk after hearing the Clash's London Calling double album, which came out in 1979. So isn't their most punk album? No, and I thought, how thrilled must he have been if he got into the clash by listening to that album and then realised what had gone on before. God, you almost envy the feeling you get when you when you when you hear it in that order. Um but anyway, his band, the Dead Polys, are playing at the Rebellion Punk Festival in Blackpool. And I've decided that because the track I listen, I listened to a few of their tracks, but the one that really stood out to me was called uh Strummerland. And obviously Stiff Little Fingers have a song called Strummerville. They do. And it's the Dead Pollies tribute to the era um to the legend. And to the legend that is Joe Strummer. And I thought the Dead Polys is a dead parrot sketch, so it just cut it it already fits the criteria. Yeah, there was a lot of consultation with your co-host about it, Steve. I I I I d I was gonna reach out to you and I thought, nah. And um and so I've decided that it qualifies and listening to Tim uh off air here, he was saying that it might not be a good idea if thing if the dots join to stretch it a bit. Do you want do you want do you want to I'll put you on the spot a bit there, uh Tim. That's Ben. Ben.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:42

I was gonna say, no, I think I think degrees of separation in music, I I you know I DJ quite a lot. And sometimes I can get from anywhere to anywhere as long as I'm given time or justification to do so. So I can't just play one thing and the other that that frustrates me. But I can get anywhere. That's one of my talents.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:00

I think you can have a show like this. You you as long as there's that those dots can be joined, those degrees of separation aren't too much of a shock. Those links, yeah, I think you're okay. Yeah, but I think the thing about it is justifying it to yourself is easy. Justifying it to my comrade here, Tim Young, is not so easy. So you need to work harder.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:21

Well you're both getting confused anyway, because I'm calling Ben Tim and Tim Ben, but then I'm also the person who calls alternative culture, alternative holster on a regular basis. So I've um confusion works. Punk is confused. Punk is confused. It's anarchy. It's anarchy, it's anarchy. Well, we've got real anarchy to come later in the show, but we're on a bit of uh a roll now. So let's hear the dead pollies, Strummerland.

SPEAKER_11 1:09:56

I remember when it came to me at the first call, I was retained. And the second one made me free. I could do everything I dreamed. I was spitting out my hate. I forgot, but it's not for God, and it is never too late.

SPEAKER_10 1:14:05

Well, that was Strubberland by the Dead Pollies, and that is my current uh favourite song. I really, really like that.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:13

Yeah, I like the ending, it has ceased to be, it's expired and gone to meet its maker, along with the other dead barracks.

SPEAKER_10 1:14:19

I want complete control.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:21

Yes, would you usually have it, Sick, let's be honest. Except when it comes to spelling.

SPEAKER_10 1:14:26

Yeah, the the okay, so in a forthcoming show. Well, we were talking about the fact that the Dead Polys um reached out to us. Reached out to us, which we really appreciate. Love it. And we're so glad that we managed to uh include them in the show. So uh I think we've made some new buddies there. New buddies in Sweden. But we were talking about a band called the Roommates who have also made contact. They're a 1978 band from San Francisco Way. And sounded really interesting, yeah. Yeah, we're gonna have we're gonna have their singer, he's gonna be um a guest on a forthcoming show, and you're not happy with the way the roommates are spelt their own.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:03

They spotted only with one M. And you you and Ben Howard were saying, yeah, well, it only has one M because it would look visually disturbing if it had two M's. I still think it does. But so I checked with our producer. I asked an Ipswich fan. I asked him to go away and research this on a reliable search engine, and what is the result, Luke? Right, it's two M's. Two M's. Yeah. Of course it's two M's. Does it room mate? You're a mate sharing a room. Does it're a room mate? You're not a room mate. Is it one word?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

Uh yeah, it's a one word. Um it actually says the correct and most common spelling is roommate, one word in brackets. It refers to a person who shares a room, apartment, or house with another.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:47

Of course it is. So you're a mate with a room. What happens if you Google the word room mate? Uh sorry, with one M. One one word.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:57

You'll get somebody who's a friend of Winnie the Pooh's friend Roo, who is Kanga's child.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:02

Well, normal normally Google would say, Did you mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

Yeah, it does. I took out the other M and it says these are the results for roommates, and it changes it to a double M. Thank you. Well they're well done. There's a Netflix movie on there as well.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:17

With two M's? Two M's. Yeah, of course it's got two M's. So I will ask the lead singer of the roommates when they come on. Why are they spelling it wrong? He probably said we're pronouncing it wrong and they're probably called roommates. Yeah, but they call toilets Johns, don't they? They spell centre wrong. They d the the you know, I'm gonna uh Ramones, Pet Semetery.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:39

That that always annoys me.

SPEAKER_09 1:16:41

Yeah, yeah. Uh because they spelled that wrong, don't they? S-E-M-A-T-E-R-Y. Oh no. Why can't they if they're gonna have English as a language, use the language. Ben, don't you agree, as a someone who's a wordsmith?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:54

I don't know, this feels like a sentence from suspended sentence earlier in the song. We should hang 'em because uh spelling a roommate wrong. Two M's. Yeah, fair dudes. But uh I'm just seeing those double M's in roommate, it's making my shit itch a little bit. Do you think we should bring back hanging for everyone?

SPEAKER_10 1:17:11

No. No. Well that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:13

I know Cooper Clark said he he said it of irony though. Irony.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:17

He also said It's like the instrumental break in walk on by, it's ironic. He also said that the only people that are not being hanged are the people that are doing the hanging. Yes, well Cooper Clark says a lot of things. We've got to get him on the show. We have gotta get him on the show. Right, we're one song away from a very controversial part of the show.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:38

I'm gonna refere have to referee that, aren't I? Uh I don't think you will have to. No, okay. No, no. A fight's not gonna break out in the show. No, no, no, no, no. Ben did admit he was being mischievous.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:47

But before we get on to No, for the record, I wasn't. I generally wasn't. It was a choice that I that I made for reasons why I make them. We'll come to that later. It just so happens it's controversial.

SPEAKER_09 1:17:56

I think this next I think we should hang our heads in shame, Steve, that we've only played one Lurkers song in eight episodes or seven episodes of Alternative Colchester. Because we both love the Lurkers.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:09

And it was you as well that played it. I played Pills.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:11

Yeah, you did. Yeah, it was the Lurkers is just fantastic. Yeah. Fulham Fallout. But this isn't off Fulham Fallout, this is off God's Lonely Men, the song I've chosen. And when I bought God's Lonely Men, this well, there's loads of great tracks on God's Lonely Men, including the title track. But this one really stood out for me and I love it, and it's a typical Lurkers song. And what is it? Two minutes, two minutes, classic Lurkers. Let's hear She Knows by the Lurkers. The Legendary Lurkers and a great song called She Knows off a fantastic album called God's Lonely Men, and we were discussing off air um how do you follow an album like Fulham Fallout. Well, I think the Lurkers managed to do it with God's Lonely Men. I think it's a superb album.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:55

They did, and my great Howard Wall story, the lead singer of the Lurkers, is I was at the Fulham Greyhound watching the boys, actually, and Howard Wool was in the audience and I got chatting with him and I offered him a asked him if he wanted to lift home because he said he lived in Walton. On the nays. I thought, well that's near me, isn't it? But it was Walton on Thames. But it was alright, because I had a car full of people anyway, so and I and he had his girlfriend with him, so we had about seven people in this mark to escort estate, and I took him to his house in Walton on Thames and he said, Oh, I don't know how I can thank ya. And I said, Well, my band's just about record a single and it'd be great if you could um produce it. And cut a long story short, we ended up getting a studio in Fulham so that he didn't have to travel very far, and he produced Coalster Council and uh Violence Aside, double A side. So and Howard Wall is no one knows where he is. Nobody can locate him. He has disappeared off the face of the earth. I've met someone who knows his sister and even she doesn't know where he is. He's just Howard, if you're listening, let us know. Great production, it was a terrible production. The single was terribly produced, but it doesn't matter, it was produced by Howard Wall.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:15

Right, I'm going to um I'm going to move on to Ben's next choice now, and I'm gonna sit back and just let you two talk, okay?

SPEAKER_10 1:22:23

Well, I'll start by saying when Ben um gave us his um he was supposed to give us five tracks, he only gave us four, but I thought that was good, so that meant I could put the XSLF song in. Um and I saw this next choice, and it was So What by Crass. And I thought that is the actual song by Krass, the actual song that made me write Special Duties um Bullshit Crass. Because I found it quite offensive, I found it uh disturbing, and I thought it was a really, really bad influence on the people that they were already influencing, in my opinion, uh, to do the crazy shit that they were getting people to do. But that was forty odd years ago, and it doesn't matter anymore, it really doesn't matter, I don't care. Ben, why do you have to come you you you f this is how you repay me. You come on here and deliberately try to upset me. Not far from it.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:23

So and and that's genuine truth. So so picture the scene, um sharing a room with my big brother who I spoke about earlier, massive music fan. I had no choice in the music that's played in our bedroom, none whatsoever. Um and I think that's served me quite well because it's in when I was younger it was Bobby and things like that. But when I was about ten eleven, um my brother was a punk and he was massively into Crass and bands of the ilk. And in my room I had no choice but to listen to these albums. So for me, Crass are a band at the age of ten eleven that I absorbed massively. And okay, politically, their message was obviously uh very distant from where I position myself really in terms of how anchored everything was. However, I think what they represented at the time was punk to me. Now I know uh you know, special duties uh issues with the punk, I know a lot of people had problems, but I think the crass I've sort of grown up with I was speaking a bit off air about meeting Steve ignorant at the art centre a couple of times, smashing fella, you know, I know but I see things as I see them. And I think Crass are a hugely influential band.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:37

Well, there's no doubt about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:38

They are absolutely massively influential. And in terms of the work they've put out, I think listening back to that, which I do quite often, I I just think it was out there in a way that was absolutely entertaining in terms of the message they put out. I think what it spun out to. My brother used to do the May Day riots and all sorts like that. I remember him smashing the city, all sorts so I understand what you mean about the influence, but I see music as music and I think listening about the crass catalogue, I don't think it stands up at all in terms of the messaging, but in terms of the impact, I think it's still it's still punk as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_10 1:25:12

Well it it was this particular track, so what, is off the feeling of the five thousand album. Um I found it very, very offensive, not in the same way that the sex pistols were offensive with Singing About the Queen. Or I can't even think of a punk rock record. I mean there was Chrissy Hind was in a band called The Moors Murderers. I found that extremely offensive and unnecessary. Um I thought the the Sex Pistols were offensive, but I thought they were funny. Um I thought Crass were offensive and to the point of just for the sake of it. And they were a bunch of old hippies that had already had their time as well, if you take Steve Ignorant out of it. I think the average age would be about 94. But um Yeah, I'm sure I'd get on really well with him if I was with him now, and we could have a drink and stuff. In fact, the other members of special duties do actually get on well with him. I think they dropped that song in their um uh set list now. And you know, but w that that that's up to them. I mean, they probably don't want to be bogged down with my baggage, and that's fair enough. But yeah, I do think that a a ten year old listening to this song, I d I don't think you'd want your own ten year old listening to the lyrics in this song.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:28

Yeah, I d I just think though the times have changed. And I was pretty political by twelve. I mean I think I was not I'm not I'm not an anarchist in any shape or form, but I was switched on to that. I think the times are different then a little bit, and I think I've turned out really fine. I think, you know, I'm open minded around music and I've got probably got one of the best music tastes I know. Because I can spin to any piece of music, I see it for music as it is, rather than rather than sort of wearing a badge or or or or just I I ran the song past Tim.

SPEAKER_10 1:26:58

He says I don't run things by him. I did run this song. Run past him and I said and I was expecting Tim to say, No, that's deeply offensive, we're not playing that. Um but he came back and said, I'm alright if you're okay. You know, and I thought, wow, that has really surprised me. But I I'm actually of the opinion that I'm okay if you're okay, because I don't believe in censorship. No. Um, you know, if Nigel Frige wants to go and watch games at Ipswich Road, who am I to say that Ipswich Road?

SPEAKER_14 1:27:27

But we don't play Ipswich Road Ipswich Road, Colchester. No, we're a bit bigger than that.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:34

But also there's there's a decent decent uh crass connection too, because they played the Arts Centre in eighty one, Stevie Grunett's playing at Methest in in May again.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:44

I saw them in I saw them in Whitam in nineteen eighty one.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:46

Yeah.

unknown 1:27:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:47

Well it might be nineteen eighty.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:49

I think I understand the offence part because what they were writing about and singing about was that so but that's what they did. That's who they were. The clue's in the name of the band.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:59

I I'm gonna

SPEAKER_13 1:28:24

I don't think my back of my bad. That's not me, I've got this back. That's not me, you got that right. Oh my god! Why not all right? So what? So what? So what? So what? So what? So what? So what? So what?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:11

And now a massage from the Swedish Prime Minister.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:22

We thought we'd better lighten the mood after So What by Crass.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:25

I decided to put two comedy tracks together. I love it, it's a punk song, it's a proper punk song. What I didn't realise is how close that is to the anti-nohere league. So what? That was offensive as well, wasn't it? I found that extremely funny. I just think you have issues with Crass. This is another episode. Uh the last one was Tony Gardner when he was a guest. This is another one where I have to put explicit material when I'm uploading it to Buzzsprout.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:54

Yeah. Definitely. But I think it was a good choice, man. Well done. And it obviously um was influential on you. So it's important that you that you chose it and not just to cheese off Steve.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:06

No, no, no, far far far from it. And let's say you can see Steve Eganman uh Meth Fest Chart Hall in May.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:12

Um and you know, logo and UK subs. UK subs, subways, random hand, I think. But the mess. And the myths who are doing a really, really good job. And I'm still trying to get them on the show. Well, I just think, well, maybe we can make that happen. But the point of it is punking culture isn't going anywhere. It's still here, you know, it's still it's still good bouncing.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:31

Who would have thought that Charter Hall would be hosting a punk festival? With a member of Crest. I know. I know. And the UK subs playing at Charter Hall is is it's bizarre.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:42

But that's all down to the myths.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:44

They're asking these guys and they're saying, yeah, how big they're getting. Yeah. No, they yeah, yeah, they were brilliant. Well I thought they were brilliant, but they were too much. I mean they they are they are on fire, aren't they? They're probably the hottest punk rock band, new punk rock band around.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:58

Without a doubt. Just going back to my time at Free Wise Monkeys, the night I decided to leave was the night I put on special duties and the meths back in and that's such a big night. You came on stage for the encore and I knew then I wasn't going back. I had to leave it was that big a night for me. You know, emerging artists versus Colchester Legends on stage. For me, that's right. Where'd you go from there? Yeah. I went home and never got back again.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:21

It's too late to start sucking up now, um Ben. So what? Right So what? Right, well we're getting close to the end of the show. I thought this show would have been a really quick one, you know. Yeah, no words. But but Luke's giving us the winning. Come on, come on. Surry up, Aries. It's the it's the obligatory um stiff little fingers song time. Uh the B side. It's a B side, and it's much, much better than the A side. I thought Back to Front as an A side. They did play it, yeah. They played it on the ground. I was really surprised. It's definitely I don't think it's one of my favourite songs. I find it awkward. Um the B side is much better. Yeah, I love it, I love it. Without further ado, a great example of punk rock reggae, Mr. Fire Coal Man by Stiff Little Fingers.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:02

Come to the next fire. Why she got this on that coming to your work who lives by the gun now. Well the time by the command. Man who lives by the gun now. Jackie Mr.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:02

Bark, old man, Stiff Little Fingers. Um yeah, classic punk reggae there, and that is the obligatory stiff little fingers track for this week, which was my turn to choose, Tim. Yours next time.

SPEAKER_09 1:39:13

I I've got one on ready, yeah. I'm all ready for the next time. Um that's a great song. It really is. Um and yeah, stiff little fingers do reggae like no other band.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:24

Yeah, if you put that together with Johnny Waz and Doesn't Make It Alright, that'd make a nice uh punk rock um reggae theme, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_09 1:39:32

Absolutely. And so yes, we've done our obligatory stiff little fingers. We've got one more track to play, and uh we'll say our thank yous to Ben after that, shall we? We're doing some classic um punk rock. We've had the Lurkers, we've had the Stranglers, we've had The Damned, we've had Stiff Little Fingers, of course, and now we're gonna have some Clash. And uh I'm gonna thank your sister-in-law because when she chose Janie Jones for the last uh episode, I thought I've gotta go back to the Clash's first album for another track. And um you could choose any one of them, couldn't you? Because it's a perfect album. But I love uh this track because because of the ending where there's a random shout of two uh of a name twice.

SPEAKER_10 1:40:15

It's not a name, is it? It's because obviously the song is about Durex, isn't it? Yes. And Johnny Johnny at the end is Well, it's still a name, Steve. Yeah. It would have been better if you'd shout out Rubber Johnny and I think. Well But did you know that that song was written before Joe Strummer joined the clash? Because uh Mick Jones was in London SS before the clash. This is why I do the show and find out facts like this. And no, I didn't. He wrote Protex Glock because in all the pub toilets back in the 70s, they'd all remember Protex machines. Yeah, they were and um he thought I was a even in collecting we had them. Yeah. Luke doesn't know what we're talking about. And talking about sister-in-law Jip. Yeah, and uh husband Tim. Yeah, but they thanked me in the week for your um shout-out on the last show when you play Janie Jones. And you refer to her as the lovely Jip. She liked that. She is lovely.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:07

Yeah, you've got a lovely sister-in-law. You're alright, Jip. Keep listening to the show. Anyway, shall we play it? Yeah, let's do it. Protex Blue by the Clash. Protect Blue by the Clash. Johnny, Johnny, I love that ending, and um that brings us more or less to the end of the show. It's been fun again. It's been great fun. And a big thanks to Ben Howard for joining us today. Cheers, Ben. Been wonderful speaking with you, Ben, and listening to some of your musical tastes and where you got your punk influences from. And it's good to hear about they came from your big brother.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:12

Yeah, and I think the other thing is we've been talking about 77, and we didn't really hang around too much about the fact that United won the Epic Cup final that year. Manchester United stopped Liverpool from winning the treble. So I think football, punk, working class culture, 1977, what a year.

SPEAKER_10 1:43:26

Colchester United got promoted in 1977 from the fourth division to the third division.

SPEAKER_09 1:43:30

What did Ipswich do? We won the cup in 78. Yes, I was. We were still qualifying for Europe. We was the big Bobby Robson era. I don't think we uh had we had a lot to shout about in that era. Anyway, we're probably Paul don't think Luke was even born, was he?

SPEAKER_10 1:43:45

Before he gets going on to more Ipswich down stuff, we're gonna close the show and I'd like to say thank you very much, Ben. I'd also like also like to thank you for the support you've given us right from the beginning as well. Because um, you know, it's it can be quite a lonely life doing a podcast, not knowing if anyone's listening, but um But people are listening all over the world. They are, they are, and and you've supported us from day one. So thank you very much for that, and thank you for joining us on the show today.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:10

You're welcome and thank you too for inviting me. I know I made a joke earlier, but you you guys are doing a brilliant job here. It's really great. You're championing Colchester, you champion great music. What can go wrong? Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_09 1:44:19

Thank you. So um we'll sign off with you especially today after what happened at the weekend. Keep it punk, keep it town. Keep it punk, keep it cold, you but most of all keep it punk, keep it alternative Colchester.