Black Maternity Natters: Ep 1 - Sonah Paton, Black Mothers Matter

In this first episode of our new Black Maternity Natters strand, Ann Remmers talks with Sonah Paton, managing director of Bristol-based Black Mothers Matter and one of the founding members of our Black Maternity Matters collaborative.

Sonah shares the story of how Black Mothers Matter came into being as a grassroots organisation led by and for Black women and what makes this organisation so very special. She talks about their successes, what she's found most challenging, and what nourishes and brings her most joy.

Programme notes

Black Mothers Matter

Girl, Woman Other by Bernardine Evaristo

Black Maternity Matters

Connect with Black Maternity Matters on socials: Instagram and LinkedIn

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Contact us at healthinnowest.communications@nhs.net or via our socials: Instagram, LinkedIn or Bluesky

Find out more about Health Innovation West of England

Transcript

Ann Remmers Hello and welcome to the first edition of Black Maternity Natters. I'm Ann Remmers, clinical lead for the Black Maternity Matters collective. Through this work, we are privileged to meet and work with some incredible people around the country doing important work to improve Black maternal health.

For our first programme, I'm joined in the studio today by Sonah Paton, founder and managing director of Black Mothers Matter. Welcome, Sonah. 

Sonah Paton  Hi, and thank you for having me.

It's great, great to have you here, Sonah. We have been working on the Black Maternity Matters programme since about 2021, I think. But you've been working in the Black maternal health space for some time. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into that area and what you've been doing?

Sonah Paton Yeah, I guess it has felt kind of organic in terms of how I've ended up doing what I'm doing. I am a parent to three, and I have the absolute pleasure of coordinating my last pregnancy with two of my best friends who are also Black women. And so naturally, all being parents together, we spent a lot of time reflecting on what it felt like, what it meant to be a Black pregnant person and then a Black mother. And when we became aware of the kind of disparities that existed in maternal experiences, outcomes, care received, we did a referral like we had any other option than to do something about it and take some action. And that's how I ended up working in Black maternal health.

Ann Remmers That's, that's amazing. And we were just so lucky to meet you because you really have been an inspiration for us. Um, can you tell us a bit about what your vision was for Black Mothers Matter when you first started it?

Sonah Paton Yeah, absolutely. So I think with the two other friends I mentioned, we felt going through that experience of pregnancy and having young babies at the same time, we felt so thankful that we had each other in those times and that we had, between the three of us, a kind of micro community that meant we had a better understanding, I guess, of the experiences compared to our other white friends and neighbours, and it proved so valuable to us. We started Black Mothers Matter with the vision that we wanted to extend that support to other Black mothers. 

So for me, Black Mothers Matter is a grassroots organisation led by and for Black women that offers support throughout the perinatal period to Black women and birthers and their family, and that support and those activities come in a variety of forms. So we're really proud of some of the beautiful resources we've produced over the years that are available to order from our free resource shop. The groups that we have, we started with one group with about six people, I think three or four years ago. We now have three weekly groups across Bristol and Gloucester that bring parents and babies together to meet, to bond, to talk, to cry, to laugh, to eat food, to drink chai. We have events. What we do really well at Black Mothers Matter is promote joy and pride and happiness and precious moments in their Black perinatal period. 

And quite often with this issue, it's so deficit led. If you google Black pregnancies, the first thing you're likely to see is a number that tells you how much more likely you are to die. Whereas if you come to us, the first thing you're likely to see is another Black woman smiling, welcoming you, offering you a cup of tea, a plate of food that's well seasoned and and bringing you into a group that is genuinely full of joy and celebration of Black motherhood. 

Ann Remmers I mean, that's that sounds amazing. On the face of it, that sounds like such a simple thing to do, but to feel that, that was what was missing and to be able to provide that, that must have been incredible. And I think the sense of, of joy and celebration as well is palpable. That's something that you really do do provide and obviously something that makes people come back. And you mentioned resources there because I know you also have brought in other health professionals as well to do some sessions, I think.

Sonah Paton Yeah, a big part of our work is bridging some of those gaps and divides and misunderstandings that exist between people in our community and healthcare professionals. And what we found works really well is when we tip the power dynamic slightly. So by inviting professionals into a space where perhaps how they're racialized, they are in the minority and they are stepping into a room full of Black people or Black women that feel empowered and engaged and want to know more. It's a very different way to deliver support and services, and a really effective way of addressing some of the power dynamics that exist in traditional statutory services or traditional ways of delivering care.

Ann Remmers And I think that that works both ways as well, because I think coming from the sort of health professional side of things that what health professionals in perinatal services are learning from you and from women who experience services is incredibly powerful too. So, you know, thinking about that, what for you, what have been the main highlights and or the standout moments for you with Black Mothers Matter?

Sonah Paton I think a recent one that I'm really proud of is our pregnancy handbook and being able to launch that. And it's been a long time coming. It's taken a lot of effort from a lot of different people, our service users within the team and other external partners. But for me, that is one item I think would have made such a difference to my own pregnancy experiences, and I just feel so incredibly proud that that's now out there, freely available to anyone who needs it. Yeah.

Ann Remmers I mean, it is a beautiful, beautiful book, um, and beautifully illustrated. Tell us a bit more about how that came about.

Sonah Paton Yeah. So a few years ago, we received some pilot funding to run some antenatal sessions, and they gave us a real opportunity to understand the needs of Black women in Bristol in the antenatal period. And over the course of that year, we had so many rich conversations that sound so many different topics from kind of routine antenatal care, but also went a lot deeper into the specific experiences and needs of Black women navigating that system. And as part of the evaluation of that project, we were able to capture the the themes from all of those conversations and bring them together into one handbook that was then beautifully rewritten and beautifully designed, and now as a standalone resource that can be accessed by healthcare professionals, but most importantly, our community, and offer an extra bit of complementary support as they navigate their pregnancy period.

Ann Remmers it is absolutely lovely. And I think the joy that you, you refer to, it really comes out so beautifully in that handbook. So that that's obviously something that's, that's been a moment of pride. And I'm wondering, what have been your biggest challenges and have you ever considered, you know, this is just too tough to do?

Sonah Paton Yeah, I think overall, the past five years of Black Mothers Matter have been so full of joy, not just providing joy to our community, but for the people I get to work with day in, day out. It has been an absolute joy. Um, some of the challenges, I guess, are the challenges that any community led, VCSE sector Black led, woman led organisation will face. It feels like we have to work a lot harder than other organisations to prove our credentials, to prove our worth, um, to prove our value to investors and other partners. But sometimes that feels like a nice challenge. I'm very up for that challenge, and I'm surrounded by other Black women who know their value and are also up for that challenge. And we're certainly not afraid of hard work. 

I think one of the harder things has been and continues to be, the sense of entitlement from other organisations and outside partners. We have built a fantastic, rich community of Black women, and sometimes people struggle to understand when we won't grant them just open ended access to that community and fail to see the amount it's taken to, to invest in those relationships and why those relationships are so trusted. And that's probably our most precious asset. And so we will protect it with all that we have. But sometimes that conflicts with with other people's or other organisations desires. 

Um, another challenge that, that feels like a daily kind of balancing act is knowing where to pour our energy. So there are some people we've come across who are really open to into developing and doing better by our community, and that is a great place to spend our energy. But there are also people that are not able to accept racism as a as a factor, as a fact. Um, and often they are the people that need the most work and would, would benefit the most from kind of speaking to us, but equally, it takes so much from us and costs so much. Sometimes it, it, it's not worth that.

Ann Remmers I can completely, um, understand that and, and that, that whole sense of, of needing to protect people from some of those external factors, I know is, is what people treasure so much as well. Um, I, I recently came along to your Eid celebration. That was a really special event. Um, and with great food, I have to say.

Sonah Paton great food.

Ann Remmers Um, how did that event come into being?

Sonah Paton So it was an absolutely lovely celebration to host and like with all of our activities and events came directly from needs within the community. We saw the opportunity to educate, um, healthcare professionals and the community on what happens through Ramadan and why it's so important to the Muslim members of our community and get that message out in a way that celebrated the joy and the specialness of Ramadan and Eid, rather than came from an angle of, oh, this is a bit of a clinical concern or, you know, I'm not sure this person knows what they were doing. And so within the team and within our community, we talked about what might be a nice way to to bring that to life. When we thought actually facilitating a conversation between the community and those that observe Ramadan and Eid and, and healthcare professionals in a place that felt a bit more balanced and a bit more neutral, would be a really nice way for that kind of shared learning and, and an opportunity for both sides to, to learn from each other. And that's, I think what that event started to achieve.

Ann Remmers I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head because not only was it a joyous event, I mean, personally, I, I felt I learned a lot from that. Um, and, and having that sort of environment, I think is, is really important for health professionals to meet and understand the needs of, of the community. So, um, yeah, well, well done for that. I really enjoyed it. And that's, that's a really nice note to sort of think about maybe what inspires you? Where do you look to for, for your kind of nourishment of, of, of your ideals and, and what you want to do?

Sonah Paton I think back into the community. So my youngest child is six now and it feel that feels like in many ways it feels like the pregnancy period was a long time ago. But through our work, having the pleasure of meeting women that are having babies right now, or kind of navigating pregnancy right now, learning from them and looking to them of what's important and what's changed is, I think, always where I get my nourishment and what kind of inspires me or inspires the next idea.

Ann Remmers Yeah, absolutely. And if you were going to give someone coming up now, um, who's maybe following in your footsteps. Some advice. What's the best advice that you'd like to pass on to them?

Sonah Paton really great advice I heard on Monday night, actually. I went to Bristol Beacon and listened to Akala talk, and he was saying that often in activism work or work that feels like it's it's there to make change. If there's not a big revolution and a day that everything shifts, it can feel like you're failing. But actually, what he reminded everyone in the audience of is that every bit that you're doing is making a difference, and is keeping the situation from being worse than it could be. So I think when I first started Black Mothers Matter, I was hoping and ten year plan things will be great retirement done. Tick that off my list. But I think the reality is, um, we need to keep doing what we're doing because it's really bloody important and is making such a huge difference.

Ann Remmers That is great advice actually, and I think one to hold on to when especially on the the tough days, as you say, when you feel like you're not, you're not making progress. So there's so many things I could ask you, but I do want you to share a little bit about some of the work that that you've been doing. I know that you're a member of NHS England's Maternity and Neonatal Stakeholder Council. I know that you have attended Parliament to speak about Black maternal health. Um, how have you got involved in all of this and what does it entail?

Sonah Paton I think over the years of Black Mothers Matter growing, I have had the pleasure of hearing so many different stories, so many different types of Black experiences. And it's so important that those voices and those experiences end up being heard by the people that hold power. And I think as a person, that's one thing I can do is put myself in those situations and those places and spaces. Speaking to NHS senior leaders, speaking to our politicians and, and, and retelling those themes that I that I get to see and hear daily. 

Ann Remmers Um, Sonah, Like you have got the opportunity to have a voice and, and speak on behalf of others which, which is amazing. And while you've got people listening, what, what would be the, the one thing or is there one thing that, that you would want, uh, granted as your wish to make things better?

Sonah Paton I think my wish or my one thing, would be for people to understand and appreciate that there's not one thing to our politicians. There's not one single intervention or or scheme that is going to, um, that's going to make things instantly better that actually people need to appreciate how complex and multifaceted the issue is. Um, but equally at the same time, look at what is working well, in the same way at Black mothers Matter, we try to flip from the kind of deficit leads to celebrating the joy in Black motherhood. There are so many examples of fantastic work that is making a difference for Black parents and Black families, and to learn from that, and I think especially from a community led organisation, our approach is not traditional, and it doesn't always feel comfortable to the types of people that do have to commission services and do have to kind of think about it from a public health lens. But there are solutions out there, and I think I would encourage people to stop looking for a single solution, because there isn't one to, to listen to the work that is happening within communities and that is working, and to be creative, to be innovative and to be brave.

Ann Remmers I think that's great advice. Absolutely great advice for everyone. Um, Sonah, well said. And now I just want for you to tell us a little bit about how you got involved with Black Maternity Matters because, um, really Black Mothers Matter was, was very much the inspiration for our Black Maternity Matters programme. Um, why is this partnership important to you? You're one of our founding members. You're you're really fundamental part of our collaborative. Um, why is this partnership important to you and what would you say we've achieved together?

Sonah Paton Black maternity matters for me is just such a critical part of the, the ecosystem of making things better. Um, when we first started Black Mothers Matter and we had lots of big ideas about how we wanted to make change. Um, we knew there was a limit to what we could do for Black parents because as per the kind of inspiration that sits behind Black Mothers Matter, um, the safety of Black people is ultimately in the hands of the professionals that care for them. And as a Black led community organisation, we did not have the power or the kudos to, to kind of step into NHS systems and try and get that message across. And I think despite one of my fellow directors being a clinician and working in the NHS and having good personal connections, I think naively at the beginning, we felt like that might be enough to start these conversations, but quickly understood that the NHS doesn't work like that. I look back now and think, God, that was my thinking. But by partnering with, um, with health innovation and forming the Black Maternity Matters collective, we've been able to have those conversations and make those moves and have that kind of two pronged attack approach that means things will get better.

Ann Remmers And I'm sure there's still a lot more we could cover, but I just want to as we're coming to the end now, ask you, what's next for you? What's next for you individually and what's next for Black Mothers Matter?

Sonah Paton For me as an individual. I've gone back to uni this year, so I'm doing a master's in public health, which I'm just about halfway through. I'm really enjoying that. And it's, um, I think a result of wanting to build research capacity within Black mothers matter. And I'm hoping with that MSc that will really help with that, that mothers matter is an organisation is just growing. We're doing more, we're delivering more. Um, there's more people in the team. Our office is getting a lot smaller. It feels like, and I think we're at that stage in our organisation that we know actually a physical space is probably what's needed next somewhere that is truly home and will be home for a long time. So that's in the plans.

Ann Remmers That's great. And I think you're a great example of if you want something doing, ask a busy person because I don't want you to do all that and have a family. And yeah, it's just, it's just awesome. So I think you're doing amazingly, I really do. You are an inspiration. Um, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you'd really like to, to tell our audience today? Or do you think we've covered everything? I'm sure we haven't.

Sonah Paton We definitely haven't covered everything. But just, I guess to highlight, I'm so proud of the work of Black Mothers Matter. And there are lots of other community led organisations out there doing fantastic work across the country and wherever you're listening from, to seek them out and to connect with them, because they will be so rich with knowledge and ideas and experience of improving things for Black parents. So if that's what you're interested in, I would encourage you to, to, to reach out and find those people.

Ann Remmers That's brilliant. Thank you. And, um, Sonah, we ask all of our all of our many interviewees, um, this question, if they could recommend a resource to our listeners, perhaps a book, a film or a podcast, something that's inspired you or you found particularly useful or informative?

Sonah Paton I think one of my all time favourite books is “Girl, Woman, Other”. And I would recommend that to anyone and everyone. Wonderful characters, but also does such an important job of highlighting the diversity within Black women. And that's something that is often forget if we're thinking kind of public health or clinical care that we're all lumped together. But one thing I love about that book is how it beautifully shows so many different types of Black women, and I think everyone should have an appreciation for that.

Ann Remmers Oh, Sonah, it's been an absolute delight chatting with you today. Thank you so much. We've loved hearing about Black Mothers Matter, and we are going to follow closely and see what amazing things you do next. Thank you.

Sonah Paton Watch this space. Thanks, Ann.