West Side Stories
The official podcast of Health Innovation West of England - bringing together members of our innovation community to explore how we are collectively transforming lives through healthcare innovation.
West Side Stories
Ep 4: Meet the Evaluation Online Network
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of West Side Stories, Jamie Jewkes leads a discussion with fellow steering committee members of the South West Evaluation Online Network. Joined by Ruth Barker, Grace Shillito, and Emmanuel Defever, the panel explores the role, vision, and future ambitions of this free virtual group dedicated to health and social care evaluation.
They explore what unique perspectives they bring to the network, from clinical pragmatism and early-career views to mid-career curiosity, and reflect on building a safe space for peer learning.
They also look ahead to future priorities for the network, including answering the big "so what?" of evaluation findings, championing the value of timely real-world evidence, and driving inclusive public and patient engagement in evaluation.
Contributors:
- Jamie Jewkes – Project Support Officer, Health Innovation West of England
- Ruth Barker – Senior Insights Manager, Health Innovation West of England
- Grace Shillito – Evaluation Researcher, Health Innovation South West
- Emmanuel Defever – Evaluation Programme Coordinator, Health Innovation Wessex
Programme notes
Get in touch by email: healthinnowest.evaluation@nhs.net
Got feedback or an idea for a future programme?
Contact us at healthinnowest.communications@nhs.net or via our socials: Instagram, LinkedIn or Bluesky
Find out more about Health Innovation West of England
Vanesther Hamer Hello and welcome to the latest episode of West Side Stories, the podcast from Health Innovation West of England. I'm Vanesther Hamer, communications lead for the network. In today's programme, we meet some of the members of the steering committee for the South West Evaluation Online Network, a free virtual group connecting people who have an interest in evaluation in health and social care. Jamie Jewkes and Ruth Barker from the team here at Health Innovation West of England, are joined in the studio by Grace Shillito from Health Innovation South West and Emmanuel Defever from Health Innovation Wessex to shine a spotlight on the work and future ambitions of the Evaluation Online network.
Jamie Jewkes Hello everyone, and welcome to West Side Stories. Today we're going to be talking to the Evaluation Online Network. We've got some of the steering committee, which includes myself... I'm Jamie, I'm a project support officer in the evaluation and insight team at Health Innovation West of England. And yeah, we're just going to talk a little bit about ourselves and then a little bit about the network and what's coming up in the network. So I'm just going to go around the virtual room and get everyone to do a quick introduction. So Ruth.
Ruth Barker Hi everybody. My name is Ruth Barker. I am also at Health Innovation West of England. I am the senior insights manager in the Evaluation and Insights team, and I joined the steering group maybe about a year ago, something like that. I think I'm the newest member of the steering committee, and it's really great to be on the steering committee. It's a really nice part of the role here at West of England, being able to be part of the network and be part of strategically what we do as a network. So that's me.
Jamie Jewkes Nice. And then moving on to Grace.
Grace Shillito Hi, my name is Grace Shillito. I am an evaluation researcher at Health Innovation South West. I think I've been part of the evaluation online steering committee for, I think just under a year now. Um, and yeah, I've really, really enjoyed it so far.
Jamie Jewkes And then last but not least, we've got Emmanuel.
Emmanuel Defever Hello. Good afternoon and thanks very much for letting me join this podcast. My name is Emmanuel Defever. My organisation is Health Innovation Wessex. So we're based in Southampton. And my role is evaluation programme coordinator. I think I've been here, uh, evaluation online for a year and a half. and, I've met lots of nice people through the network. and I carry on staying here to continue to meet new people.
Jamie Jewkes Thank you so much. And yeah, so this isn't the entire steering committee. Um, we have a few more people who work in wider NHS organisations and also academia. So we do kind of reach into all of those sectors. So today we just wanted to kind of talk about the network and our roles on the steering committee.
So I thought we could start by talking about what kind of perspective and skills you might bring to the network as someone on the steering committee. So we'll start with Ruth again.
Ruth Barker Yes. What do I bring to the network? So I'm a physiotherapist by professional background. So I work clinically and I've also done clinical research roles in the past. So I bring kind of a bit of an academic lens, a bit of a clinical lens, um, kind of with that pragmatism around real world evidence generation. So I think those multiple lenses are really useful for something like the evaluation online network because we engage with multiple stakeholders, we work with academia, we connect with clinical services and within the system, within the different sectors. So I think it's, it's useful to bring those lenses.
And I think it helps build kind of confidence in the evaluation space to know that we bring the rigour from academia and the pragmatism from the clinical world and kind of combine those. So I think that's what I bring to the network and just general, um, puppy energy. I can get excited about most things. And, hopefully that is something that's useful for the network because evaluation sometimes comes with a slight nervousness from people and also kind of a, oh, we've got to do evaluation. So I hope that puppy energy rubs off on people, um, through the work that we do in the network.
Jamie Jewkes I'd say it definitely does rub off. Um. Grace.
Grace Shillito So I think I bring an experience from working on a range of real world independent evaluations of new health and care innovations. So the evaluations that I work on do vary quite widely. So they might involve evaluation of a new pathway or service model or a system level change, or a physical or digital innovation or even a workshop event or sort of engagement activity. So I would say I work across a range of different missions, themes and projects. So I bring quite a broad perspective on evaluation in health and care. and I think our evaluations can all be so complex and broad.
I think there's real value in having a space where we can all get together and ask questions and have a safe space. We can share challenges and learn from each other. And I think, yeah, there's really something in that we're trying to create a network that is sort of a two way relationship with our members. So it's not just us sharing learning with our members that they're sharing with us. They're learning as well, which I think is really important.
And I think because I'm quite early in my career, I bring the perspective of someone who is kind of new and I don't classify myself as an expert. So I think I can sort of relate to some of our members that are still developing and learning.
Jamie Jewkes Yeah. I think one thing I quite like about being on the steering committee is just how varied we all are in terms of our backgrounds, but then also levels of experience. So, you know, I am also very early career and I don't even have an evaluation background. Um, so it's really nice to just get to hear all those kinds of perspectives. And then. Emanuel.
Emmanuel Defever Thanks very much. Jamie. So I probably fall somewhere between Ruth and Grace. Um, so I also trained as a physiotherapy in my early career, but then soon moved into research, especially in academic, and because I've always been curious and, I, I love reflecting, thinking and then just asking people how, how things work. So I've ended up in academia, clinical as well as pure academic research. And through all those experience, really I'm blessed to be landed in this role where I can dip in and out in a clinical environment to see what works and then for who does it work, how and why in a real world setting and the health and care setting. So, that's what I like to bring into the network.
I'd say I'm a mid-career, sort of evaluator-researcher. I've sort of learned the bread-and-butter techniques and methods of evaluation. But at the same time, I'm still curious and I still want to learn what other techniques and methods, what other evaluators have done in their role. And this network just brings all that. Those who are quite new to this type of role and to those who have been here for 15, 20 years. So yeah, it's, it's a network for everyone, to share their learnings and knowledge. Absolutely.
Jamie Jewkes I guess one of the things that might be really interesting for people to understand is the types of evaluations, how we've, you know, approached evaluations in the work that we've done. And, and what does that look like in terms of what we do in the network? So how does the work that we do all connect together into the vision for the network. Grace, have you got any thoughts?
Grace Shillito Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So I would say in my role at Health Innovation South West, as I said, I'm working on independent evaluations of health and care in real world settings. My work is very, varied, so I work across evaluations from mental health to long term conditions and cancer. and so sometimes that's evaluating... it can be a pathway change or a system level change, or it could be an event or engagement.
So I think that really piques my interest in the network in the opportunity that we have to talk practically as well and discuss any challenges we might be having and share the work that we've actually been working on. And I think it's a conversation that we're having within our HIN, and I think it's a really important conversation that we could have together, um, is how we can share our learnings.
So I think we might all write reports and things like that. But then where does that go? You know, I think we're all so driven by capturing insights, but actually, how are we sharing that? Are we all coming across the same barriers or the same challenges?
Ruth Barker That's great. Emmanuel, have you got any thoughts about what your vision for the network is? We've refreshed the strategy and, and thinking ahead about what we're going to be doing, what do you think the space brings?
Emmanuel Defever Yeah. Thank you. Ruth. Yeah, definitely. It's, a space that I feel, where all the other evaluators can come together inclusive and support each other as a community, One, one thing I've noticed, is that as an evaluator or researcher, we’re often seen as someone who is providing a service or doing an evaluation for, say, a service manager or a clinical team. And we're often perceived as an expert, whereas we sometimes have our own doubts and questions So to have a network of fellow evaluators, we can bring that safe space and to ask each other, you know, this is what we've done. I wasn't quite sure, but it landed quite nicely to the service managers. But what would you have done?
It's creating that space where we can be honest and just sort of relax and then ask each other some questions that that's the kind of vision I have. And so far I think it's working.
Ruth Barker Yeah, I think I'd reflect that back. I think this is a space bringing those like-minded people together.
I think the webinar series and the topics that we've covered are topics that feel like they've been really important to the network members. So we've listened to network members to make sure we're kind of providing knowledge and space for discussion around key things. So, actually as a group of professionals, as evaluators, we're all learning and sharing from each other. And I guess growing as individual evaluators whilst bringing almost like the hive mind together within the network, which feels like the purpose of something like this. And it feels like we are getting that we are getting that when we get feedback from the network, they're sort of telling us that we're kind of achieving that, which feels great.
Jamie Jewkes So I think as someone who is, you know, again, very much early career, I think one of the biggest draws to me for the network was that kind of safe space. And just having a, an online community of people who are all roughly interested in the same thing, but in very different ways. Because then I think you get to learn like quite a lot.
I remember the first network event that I went to Was on AI and the kind of ethical use of AI. And I found that really interesting because it was just when I'd started my role. So, you know, I was even more of a newbie to evaluation than I am now. And my background is in philosophy. So, that kind of ethical question is definitely always on my mind. So I found that really interesting to get to talk with people that I'd never met before and it feel like we were on equal footing and just being able to share that perspective and people, at least how I interpreted it, people were really interested by what I was saying, and then obviously I was interested by what they were saying. So I think that kind of yeah, that peer network is one really important thing for me and something I really want to foster more.
So could everyone tell me one topic you're really excited for the network to cover in the future? Uh, so we shall start with Emmanuelle.
Emmanuel Defever Thanks very much, Jamie. I think I'd really like to see how the network can support fellow evaluators to really uncover and to really answer that big question of so what? Okay, so you were commissioned to do an evaluation piece. You know, the innovation or, you know, the initiative inside out. You've gone in really deep with your data. You understand what the data is saying. And then for us to be able to turn that around and give back to the key stakeholders. So what does it mean? And be, be honest and real about what the key messages are and what they can do about those messages. I'm really looking forward to network being able to grow in that sense so that we can help each other, how we can send our key messages more, readily available for the, for the key stakeholders to then action based on our evaluation.
Jamie Jewkes Nice. Thank you. And then Ruth next.
Ruth Barker I don't know if I'm allowed to say it, but I'm going to say it anyway. But it almost feels like evaluation sometimes feels like a second-class citizen compared to research. And kind of there's that kind of hierarchy of evidence. And actually, you know, in the world of evaluation where we don't have, we don't do randomised controlled trials. And, you know, we don't sit right at the top of that hierarchy of evidence. We're almost always justifying the fact that we've generated real world evidence, and there's value in that real world evidence.
So what I get a bit geeky and a bit nerdy about, and I'm really passionate about, is making sure in the evaluation space, we use the most robust methods that we can. We justify the methods, you know, we provide the rationale for all of the work that we're doing. Our analysis processes are always the best we can do with that real world data. We know it's messy and it's untidy, and we work in a complex system. And then like Emmanuel said, being able to draw that into a really coherent output that is useful for whomever the intended audience is.
So I think for me, I get really passionate about the fact that something like this network gives us a space to really show the value of evaluation and actually how timely, if you do evaluations, well, they can generate real world evidence that's usable in the here and now. And I think that's the thing with evaluation is we're not waiting three years for a randomised controlled trial to be able to change what's happening and see transformation happen in in systems and for systems. Um, and I hope as I say, this network is kind of a space where we can bring all those people who get a bit excited about those things together and as a community have a voice.
Jamie Jewkes I, I definitely think that the kind of real world aspect is something that got me so interested in evaluation when I started my role because again, you know, coming from my academic background, seeing the real world stuff really resonated with me because of the kind of community organising I do outside of work. And I really like how it can kind of appreciate how messy things are sometimes, you know. Things are never going to be in the same kind of situation as they are in an RCT . But having that real world application is something really interesting to me. And then finally, Grace.
Grace Shillito Thank you. Yeah. I think my point and my interest really leads on from that. Jamie, you saying about it being real world evaluation that we focus on because I'm really passionate about making evaluation inclusive. A lot of the time when we're doing patient or public involvement, it's, I think, it's really hard to get engagement at the moment. That's definitely something that we're finding is it's really hard to engage people, you know, to come and speak to us or to take part in an interview or a focus group or even a survey. I think there's a lot of sort of, yeah, survey fatigue out there. You know, you get sent a feedback form for everything at the moment.
But I'm really passionate about getting a really diverse group of people involved in our evaluation. So instead of it being, you know, sometimes a PPIE group, for example, might be just not a very broad demographic, and they might often have good access to healthcare or be well educated and things like that. So I'm really passionate about us exploring how we as a network might have different contact points or different skills to really involve a diverse group of people in our evaluations. So in the South West, I'm particularly interested in involving rural and coastal communities.
But I think that we're such a diverse group of people with such a diverse sort of experience and set of skills, that I think together it would be really helpful for us if we could all work together on how to include people in our evaluations, because I agree, the importance is that we're real world. But I think the engagement is where that really counts. and that we could look at practical ways of involving people, rather than people seeing evaluation as just a tick box exercise. I think it's really important. We're starting to look at how we're disseminating our findings again. And if we're getting communities to engage with us, how we can share back our findings so that the community can feel like they're also getting something out of us as, um, evaluators and as a network. What are we providing to people? Like what, what are we making a difference with? So yeah, I think it's kind of a loop. If we can really work out that niche of how to engage people and yeah, really show them the impact that they're engaging with us that we're then having on them and real people and the system.
Jamie Jewkes Thank you, everyone for coming and kind of talking about yourselves. It was really interesting. Thank you to Ruth and Grace and Emmanuel. I love just hearing people be nerdy. Thank you everyone for listening. And I hope you enjoyed hearing more about the steering committee for the network. so if you want to join the network or find out more, you can find us online. So we have a Bluesky and we have a LinkedIn group. We have our own web page, all of which can be found in the programme notes.
So everyone, who's joined me today is from, health innovation networks. But on our steering committee, we do have people from councils and from universities and ICBss. We will be doing posts about everyone on our Bluesky and our LinkedIn. So if you want to learn more about the rest of the steering group, then you can check it out there. We are going to start running more events and we're looking at our next themes. So if you have any topic ideas that you would like to see us do, or you would like to maybe even get involved in, then please feel free to email us and our email will also be in the programme notes. Bye.
Vanesther Hamer Many thanks for listening to our latest instalment of West Side Stories, and a big thank you to today's contributors Jamie, Ruth, Emanuel and Grace. We'd love to hear your feedback on this episode and ideas for shaping the Evaluation Online Network going forward. As Jamie says, you'll find ways to contact us in the programme notes. Until next time. Goodbye.