Episode 5 - Take Heart

Pastor Dan is joined by special guest, Holly Metzger as we talk about John 16:33 and Jesus' statement: "in this world you will have trouble, but take heart I have overcome the world."

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hey everybody, welcome to another Sermon Prep podcast. I'm Dan Metzgram, the pastor at St. Mark's United Methodist Church, and with me today is a very special guest. It's our youth pastor and also my wife, Holly.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Hello, hello. Hi, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

So today we are going to be talking about we've been uh still in our series this Lent where we're uh looking at the things that John talked about Jesus doing in the upper room with his disciples, the things that he said in chapters 13 through 17. And uh this week we're in chapter 16. I'm not gonna be able to do all of chapter 16, but there's one verse at the very end of it that comes at the end of what John uh says that Jesus is saying, um, the things that he says about the Holy Spirit and uh leaving the Holy Spirit with us, all of the different stuff that Jesus has talked about. And at the very end, there is this verse that is one that is often quoted that we talk about uh quite a bit, and it says this it says, I've told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world. And so um Holly was available today, so I thought this would be just a good thing for us to kind of talk about together. Um I I don't know about uh you all, but for us, sometimes we um we find that this verse is absolutely true, that in this world there is trouble. There's sometimes things that just don't quite go our way. We've talked about this over and over again in our lives and in our uh ministry together, that you know, we try to do we we try to do the things that we think we're supposed to do. We try to um uh follow Jesus, follow his call for us. We all these things. And so there's this, I think there's this kind of idea that if you do that, if you if you do the things you're supposed to do, if you try to live the right way, that everything just always works out exactly right and uh and that there's no problems, that everything should get better. And we just find that that's not always necessarily the case.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, and I think we I think like as Christians, like we know that, like we know deep down that like that is what the Bible says, and that you know this life isn't perfect, and there are gonna be hard things in life no matter what, but then the you know, humanness in us, in our brains, you know, that we're um human and we feel like there's this like cause and effect thing, right? Of like, I'm a good person, I help people, I try to live a righteous life, I try to, you know, read my Bible, I try to, you know, tell others about Jesus. And so deep down we're like, so that though should make life easier, right? Because I'm trying to do all these right things when you know we know that Jesus doesn't promise that, but I think the humanness in us thinks that we deserve that. And so when things don't go our way, and when there is struggle and when there's things that's hard, even as Christians, even as you know, a pastor and a youth pastor, and you know, we uh we struggle with that sometimes of like you know, knowing what we know about the Bible and what Jesus promises, but also knowing, you know, that we're human. And sometimes we have feelings of like what we what we deserve or what we think we deserve. And so when bad things happen, when struggles happen, um, it is it's hard. And I think we ask ourselves a lot of questions, and that's when some doubt can creep in about, you know, what am I doing wrong? Or God, are you even out there? Like, do you see me? Because it feels like I you don't see me right now. So yeah, I mean, we go through it too.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

We were talking in our Bible study last night, we're recording this on Thursday. Um, in Bible study last night, we were talking about uh how this, how this um this has been a thing for ever since Jesus was around, you know, the people who have faith, like things are supposed to work out for people who have faith. Um, that seems to be what he's telling the disciples is that that's it's not necessarily gonna be the case that things are gonna get easier. He's telling the disciples this on the night before uh they're all gonna fall away, they're all gonna see the worst thing that they've ever seen in their entire lives, they're gonna see Jesus killed. Uh and and even after his resurrection, it's not gonna get easier for them. It gets harder for all of them. It gets uh life doesn't get more simple for any of them, it gets more complicated in a lot of ways. But I so I I think that there's this there's this difference between things getting easier and things getting better. Like life is still better with Jesus. It doesn't mean that it's easier, but I think life is better with Jesus. You you have the the hope to carry on, you have um the this uh hope of something eternal, this uh promise of something more, you have someone to lean on, you have a faith community that you lean on uh in a thousand other ways that Jesus makes life better, but better and easier aren't always the same thing. But kind of back to your point, we we do have this cause and effect um uh kind of belief that that's the way that things should happen. And we were uh kind of, I was joking with our class last night. I really resonate with Kevin Costner's character in the movie Field of Dreams, um, where he does all this stuff, he plows under his cornfield to build this baseball diamond because that's what he feels like he's supposed to do. And and he goes and he finds the people that are supposed to come there and and who are supposed to have these great life-changing experiences, and then he sees other people getting to go and see what's in the corn, and and he's not invited, he doesn't get to go. And at one point, uh he finally just says, Well, what's in it for me? Like, what about me? And you know, the character of Shueless Joe Jackson says, Is that why you did this? Is this for you? Is that why you're doing all these things? And he's like, No, but what's in it for me? Like at some point, at some point, we do hope, I think, that, well, if I'm doing all these things for Jesus, if I'm if I'm doing the things that I'm supposed to be doing, that life, doggone it, life should be better. Like life should be easier in some way, that we should get rewarded somehow. And that's just not necessarily what Jesus says is going to happen. Uh, he says that in this world you're going to have trouble. There's going to be hard things. Now he he qualifies it with a couple of other things, though. He says, um, before that, he says, I've told you all of these things so that you will have peace. So I think a part of the way that we have peace is everything he says before that, the promise of the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit's going to be here with us. We're not going to be left alone. Uh, that we're not, we're not here having to do this whole thing alone. I know sometimes it can feel like you're alone in in all this, but we do have the promise that God is always with us.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah, and I think looking back, um, gosh, on our 20 plus years of marriage, I think, and being in the ministry together and all the places that we've been, you know, there's been some really um hard times through just our marriage and being in the ministry and um, you know, miscarriages and finances and and just things that have happened the last 20 years that, you know, that have been really hard. And when looking back on it, you know, I think in every instance, there has always been um, there has always been like you can see God through it all, of like whether he provided whether he provided a mere miraculous, you know, coming through with financial means or um just providing us people um to help us get through times where we were struggling, um whether it be in our marriage or whether it be through miscarriage or um just through really, you know, hard things with um loved ones passing away. And um, I know, you know, we've lost several friends to suicide and um things like that over the years where you know it just doesn't make sense. Like, like God help us make sense of this. And you know, in the moment, you know, it seems can seem really dark and it can really seem like, you know, I just don't feel like God's hearing me or seeing me, and you know, I'm I'm leaving it all out here and praying hard and seeking God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, you know, and like, but where is God? And you know, looking back, you know, I think it's very evident where God was and He was with us through it all. So, so yeah, I mean, there's been some things in our life that have happened that you know, wish wish that they wouldn't have happened, but they did, and you know, God carried us through whether it was um in a lot of ways through other people. And so, I mean, just the people that we were able to surround with, with friends, um small groups, um at various churches, um, family members who were there for us and helped us when we needed it. And so, so yeah, I mean, I think looking back gives us hope for the things that we're facing today. And, you know, like honestly, like the irony of um recording this podcast today is like so Dan and I just came, Dan and I just came from our um yearly tax appointment. And if y'all don't y'all don't know, tax season for pastors uh is just really not a fun time. Um if you know anything about clergy taxes, it's just a disaster. And so so, anyways, long story short, we just came from our meeting with our tax, our tax guy, who's great, by the way. He's very great and honest with us, and you know, it's fine. But um, but you know, this tends to be a season for us every year that it's a struggle, usually. And so um I tend to cling to looking back on how God has carried us through past experiences to help me get through current experiences, and that's how I find hope, and that's how I find peace and comfort knowing like God's brought us this far. Like, why would He leave us now?

SPEAKER_00 10:31

I think we say that same phrase to each other every year around this time.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Like lying lying in bed at night, like wide awake, like how is how are we gonna do this? And it's like, well, I don't know, but God hasn't left us yet. So we're just gonna hold on to hope that God hasn't left us yet. So, but yeah, so it's an it's ir ironic that we're filming or you know, recording this right now.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

And of and of course, you know, uh yeah, it's and we know we're not the only people who go through different kinds of struggles, and your struggles might not be financial struggles, it might be health, it might be, it might be something else, you know. And we always say that thing that yeah, God's brought us this far. He's not gonna let us go now. And it's just you know, another step of faith every every year, it it seems like, but um He He is always with us. We have always felt like somebody has uh there's been a way that God has has shown up for us. Uh we uh one of the stories I I think I've shared before, um, but was one of our kind of first instances of all of this. We were at our first church uh in Van Buren, and I'll kind of never forget this. Um that we were in the middle of a struggle. I was going to I was going to seminary, Holly's pregnant with uh our second child at the time. Um we were still sleeping on her uh mattress that she had when she was a kid, and uh and it was killing her back. And uh, but we just didn't have the money for a new mattress and all this uh kind of stuff. And I remember there was at some point in time, I was um you know, we were praying really hard about just how are we gonna how are we gonna do this thing? And um at one point in time there was one of my mentors, uh his name is uh uh David Shivington, and um he was I I was uh in some way we I think we had gone out to dinner with them and they had invited us to dinner maybe. And uh we were just sharing some of our our struggles and and praying, and we had been praying about these things, and um it wasn't very long after that that he let me know that we had gotten some sort of scholarship or something like that that uh that was made out to us, and and by the way, it would probably cover the cost of a new mattress. And uh I just remember kind of breaking down, and and here's the reality of that is that it was uh I believe God was fully working in that moment, but God was fully working through some other people. And sometimes we're called to be uh the people that come alongside, we're we're called to be that evidence of God's love and grace to others. And we've had the opportunity to get to do that for other people uh several times, where um we've been able to um we we we know and we see that there's somebody who's who's hurting in some way, and we've been able to come alongside them and be an answer to prayer for them. I think that's how God tends to answer prayers, it's not always through something miraculous. Uh I mean it's it's that's still miraculous, but it's not always through just like, you know, poof, here's the money or something. Something that's like unexplainable. Right, right. Sometimes it's God's just gonna work through some people to do something beautiful. And uh and so we see that a lot. And I think that's a part of the way, that's the prompting of the Holy Spirit in other people's lives. You know, Jesus says uh all of this week's gonna be about the Holy Spirit. Uh, he's talking about the coming of the Holy Spirit and the promise that he's gonna be with us. And um, I think it's a part of what the Holy Spirit does is prompts other people and uh calls them to be answers to prayer for others. So uh uh so we see that. Uh but then we also see this other thing, this other qualifier that Jesus gives to this where he says, The world, in the world you will have trouble, and really the one that we cling to the most, I think, is at the end of that, he says, but take heart, I have overcome the world. And um and so it's this promise that someday um everything is going to be made right, that Jesus ultimately wins. We say it here all the time, the worst thing is never the last thing. Uh and if it's the worst thing, it must not be the last thing, because Jesus is going to win the day. Now, I think sometimes, and and sometimes this is true, so sometimes we hear that we say, Oh, so it'll be good when I die. Like I just have to like someday I'll get to die and there'll be no more problems. And that's true, but I also think that uh Jesus is still in the business of, in the process of redeeming this world right here and right now, and that we're a part of that, that we get to be a part of that, and we get to see that. That we're not supposed to just sit back and say, Well, everything is terrible. Jesus said in the world we're gonna have trouble, so why even try to fix anything? Why even try, why even try to battle it? We just have to hang on until someday we get to take our final breath. I think that there's more to it than that, that we're called to be people who help to bring about that kind of transformation and to see his kingdom come uh on earth as it is in heaven. I think that's a part of what we're supposed to do. And um so I know that that's I mean that's a part of why we do what we do, right? Is that we're we're calling people not just to hang on uh but to help make this place look a little bit more like the kingdom of heaven and um help relieve some of the trouble that that people might be having. That's a part of why we're doing moving the needle, it's a part of why we're doing all the things we do, why Holly works with youth that sometimes, you know, sometimes youth can uh drive you crazy, maybe there. But no comments. No comments. Uh we love we love that. They are great.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

They are great, they fill my cup every day, every day. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

But it's part of why we do that, because uh we know that there's I know that there's gonna be sometimes where there's you know, where there's people coming to church or kids coming to youth group who, you know, home like this is this is the reprieve. This is the place where they come to say, well, maybe there is some hope. Maybe there is, maybe this is a place where where um you know love is possible, kindness is possible, hope and healing could be possible.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, I mean, I think like like Dan said, right? Like in this world we are gonna have trouble. This world is a it's a tough place. And you know, I think uh in the world of social media and you know, more access to news, I think we're just more aware of the dark things in the world. And I think our job as Christians and as the local church is and I think Dan has said this before in sermons, and I agree, right? Like we, I think we're the plan, we're God's plan to bring hope and light to a hurting world. And so we don't have to wait till we die to get to experience, you know, heaven, right? I think it's our job to bring heaven to earth, right? To bring a little bit of Jesus and a little bit of um of that hope and peace and light that we're gonna get to experience ultimately someday. Um, but to bring that to a hurting world because yeah, this world has plenty of trouble. Um, we all have plenty of trouble. Um, you probably have plenty of trouble. Um, and so when there are times when maybe you're experiencing a dark valley where other people can rise up and bring you a little hope and light and peace when you need it. And the same token when others are struggling and maybe um you have a little more to give, then you can bring the hope and light and peace to others in a hurting world. And so I think that's I think that's God's plan for the church and for the world is for us to bring his kingdom here right now because we need some hope, we need some light.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah. I mean, you can watch the news and you can just say, yep, everything's terrible and this is all just awful, and you know, can't wait, can't wait till someday Jesus. I mean, that's all that's always the prayer, like Jesus, come back quickly. Come to come and and while we we hope for that, we want that, uh, we're not just passively waiting, right? We're we're actively working uh to bring his kingdom here to see um to see light conquer darkness, to see hope ultimately win the day. And so I think that's the challenge today, and and for you this week is um if you're having if you are in the middle of that trouble, um persevere. Um but also uh know that you're not alone, that the spirit is with you, that the church is with you, uh, that that Jesus is with you in the midst of all of this. You are not left alone. And uh don't just sit back and take it. Be somebody who helps to bring a little bit of light into the darkness and um and and find ways, even in the hardest moments, to say, uh, Jesus, you've brought us this far. And we don't believe that you leave us now. Uh we believe that you are still working, you're still active, you're still moving in our world, and that uh ultimately you you win. We know the end of the story. We know the end of the story is that Jesus wins. And so we get to help fill in the parts that get us to that moment. And uh so be a part of that story and uh and help bring about the kingdom of God. So that's all for the Sermon Prep Podcast. Thanks, Holly, for being here.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Yeah, thanks for having me. This is fun. This is my first podcast, and I'm a little thrown off that you do this in one take because that makes me really nervous. But hopefully I didn't screw anything up.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

No, I think you were wonderful as always. So, all right. Well, thanks for joining us, and uh, we'll see you on our next sermon prep podcast.