Season 1, EP 4: The Student Senate for California Community College

The California legislature is in full gear now and has begun to discuss and debate bills they introduced early this year to become law. One topic of interest that legislators often focus on is policy about how colleges and universities operate in California and some of the most important stakeholders are the students themselves. In fact, there is a student group/association for all three public college systems and in this episode we sit down with Carlo Flores-Olsen, a member of the Student Senate for California Community Colleges and a Student Trustee representing Rio Hondo Community College.  In this episode we discuss some of the hot topics that the Student Senate wants to tackle in California this year. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of me in Portasu, California. The podcast that brings to you folks that are working in policy and politics from across California. Today, joining me for the first time is our guest, Carlo Flores Austin.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

And today's episode is about uh the different organizations that have a voice in Sacramento. Some of those folks are student organizations. Carlos joining me as a representative of the student senate for the California community colleges. Carlo, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:30

I'm doing good today. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Doing great. Um so tell me what college do you go to? Where are you from? Tell me a little bit about your background.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

So uh I'm a student from Rio Hondo College. I serve, as you said, on the student senate. I work as a legislative affairs director. So I uh I work in our advocacy and legislative priorities area of the organization. Uh I also serve as a student trustee on the board for Rio Hondo College. We are a single college district only Rio Hondo College, but we do have our satellite campuses.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

And for everyone that doesn't know, Rio Hondo, that's in uh the LA County area. What area of LA specifically does Rio Hondo represent?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

It's in uh Whittier. But for those who don't know Whittier where it's Whittier's at, it's in uh the east, east, east, southeast area of of uh LA, specifically bordering Orange County, kind of right where the San Gabriel Valley kind of starts. Yeah. But that's the best way to describe where where Whittier's at.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

And well, that must explain a lot why you're wearing a shirt that says Legalized Papuzas, right? For for those who can't see the full text, it says Legal Espapasas. So um tell me where is your favorite papusaria and in Whittier or in LA? Or tell me where is it at so we can go so everyone else can know about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Funny enough, this is actually uh I'm a really big fan of LA Galaxy. I'm a really big soccer fan. I've I've enjoyed soccer my whole life.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yeah, we're not we're not to cut the podcast now because I'm an LAFC fan. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Oh my bad, my bad. Hey, but I can get behind LAFC. You guys did really good yesterday against uh Miami.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I think Messi uh did not win that one, right? No, he didn't.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

3-0. You guys won.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

All right, so papusas, let's get back to it.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, papoas, papooses. So uh I went over to LA Galaxy, and I'm I've been I've we used to have uh season tickets there, and when we went there, we had there's this one place called papusas with a purpose. It's like a kind of like an advocacy shop, but also does uh but they sell papusas, they sell really good ones too. I'd say that's my favorite. Uh-huh. Um, and their work uniforms, actually, funny enough, were this legalized papusas. Yeah. And I was like, I really like that shirt. I really hope I can go get one. So then I go, I go up there and I go talk to them while we're getting like a drink to go uh just to go show the game we watch with.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Um, and I I go up there and I ask them, Oh, how can I get that shirt of yours? And I'm like, Well, this is our uniform. I don't know how we can get it, but actually, wait, we have a but we have a backup one in the in the back. She goes and gets it, brings it back to me. I'm like, This is amazing. Thank you so much. And it fits me. And I'm like, How much do I gotta pay you? And she's like, Nothing. I was like, really? So I was able to get it for free and I was really happy about it. And I love wearing it, it always always uh always sparks up a good conversation starter, too.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Dang, and so uh is your family from are they Central American or is is are you just a fan of Papusa's?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

A little bit of both. So my mom, I I am mixed race. Uh I'm half Nicarawese, uh-huh and I'm also half uh white, kind of Nordic. I think my dad's mainly Nordic. Oh, okay. Um so but my mom, she's um she's a immigrant, she's a f uh a sec a first generation immigrant. Uh her parents came over here and uh they had her, but then they went back to uh Nicarawa, and then they ended up coming back afterward um during the Aran Contras uh incident, and because you know she was only left with an ultimatum to go to higher ed, and that was either she go and work in the coffee fields next to the front line, or she would have to go fight on the front line, and neither neither of those are good options. So she came over here to finish her education.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Dang. So does your is is does your mom make papusas as well or no?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Unfortunately, no. But so that I I've maybe a little biased. The the only papoasas I can get are the ones at LA Galaxy.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Dang. And then what's your last question on papoas? And we'll get into the politics, but papusas are pol political too. What's your favorite papusa?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

My favorite papusa? I'd have to go with um, I mean just a regular uh refried bean and cheese papoasas, like you know, just the old basic, little bread and butter.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Very classic, classic papusa. Excellent. And then so uh the other thing I wanted to talk about with you know uh Rio Hondo College. Um, there's uh a lot of folks that have really big names that have come out of that college. Hilda Solis was a trustee there, you're a student trustee. Tell me about um how long have you been a student trustee? I was a student trustee, so I could kind of relate to a lot of the things that that you did. Uh I was a student trustee at North Orange County Community College District uh when I was representing Fullerton College. Uh go Hornets, by the way. Um, but yeah, how how is it being a student trustee? Uh and then yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Um it it's it's been a really good experience for me. I've been able to have so many experiences meeting so so many extraordinary people. I mean, there's people in the Chancellor's office that came from Rio Hondo College that I've or the Chancellor's office for those that don't know is the is the office that basically serves the executive branch uh side of the community college system. Um and I've met with people that I've I mean legislators, uh I've I mean I've met with uh I mean so many different types of people. It's it's been actually an amazing experience. Although I I can't say that I wasn't nervous going up there for the first time. Um, but I mean it I I think I really grew from it and it was a really nice experience for me learning how to advocate with people, how to how to negotiate, and uh how to get things done.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

And so uh for those that don't know, you know, colleges, community colleges in California are represented by boards of trustees, kind of like your school board, right? Some people didn't know that there's community colleges, and so you're the student representative on an on a board with elected officials, uh, and then um sounds like you do advocacy just like that they do to bring resources back to the college district. Um, so has there been any items that you've been working on or um as a student trustee? Um uh or is there anything you're trying to do before uh you leave your trusteeship uh that you want to leave your mark with?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

So I I ran on three things and I I I've mostly delivered with them. Um it's I I wanted to improve the transportation at our college. Those didn't start as as a main uh reason, but it became a very big priority for me. Um because I mean when I was going there, I I I was able to meet my girlfriend. Uh her name's Yami. Um she I mean she she was a really good impact on my life. But one really big problem she had with Rio Hondo College is is it's on a hill, uh if if for those who don't know, but it's it's a really steep incline and it's really hard to get up to classes. So we have this transit system that takes you from the bottom of the hill to the top of the hill, but it had a very long wait wait time for it. So something I I worked with with my our police chief is to increase the amount of uh I guess the the time period it takes to to get over from um from the bottom of the hill to the top of the hill. And I mean, because of how bad it was for her, she had to walk up consistently day after day over to the top of the hill, and it actually was messing up her knee.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

So it really and I have kept on hearing more and more complaints about it, so I was like, it's gotta be it's gotta be solved. So I went over to their police chief and I and I talked with the superintendent as and the police chief and we were able to get it all worked out.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

That's great, that's amazing. Um transportation has been a big issue for a lot of students, especially in uh um metropolitan areas, um, and in urban areas, but also uh so but but also so in uh rural areas too. I know some of the college students that I'm working with in the Central Coast are advocating on transportation, uh, which kind of brings us to our next point. Uh so you know, we brought you on to talk about SSCCC. Um, as uh some of our viewers and listeners have learned, there's different organizations that are represented in the Capitol, right? Education happens to be one of those key issues that are always discussed in in uh the halls of the legislature. And anytime you talk about college, SSCCC is always one of the major stakeholders. So tell folks a little bit more uh about the student senate and what are some of the things that that you all do as as a body.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

So some things we do as a body, we do advocate, as you said, in the legislator. We'll talk with uh legislators directly, ask for different priorities, hope hopefully swing their way one way or another. Also, we do sponsor legislation, um, we do support legislation, and also, but we do um we kind of do some community work with the community colleges serving as kind of an advisor to some of them, giving them trainings uh and local support if they ever ask for it. Um but that's kind of the really what the student center does. Also, we do serve as a as a member within our um it's called consultation council. Uh-huh. It's a council of all the constituent groups in the community college system, and we all go talk about the discussion or discuss different problems that are happening on the on each campus and across the system as a whole.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

And so um, and there's and there's representatives from there's 112 colleges, 116 community colleges.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

116 and 118 if you can count the two not uh continuing education colleges in our system.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Oh, okay. And then so of those 118, about how many students uh make up kind of the wow, what would it be, the board of directors at the SSCC?

SPEAKER_01 9:30

So we have as a total 26 board of directors. So 20 of them are re are regional officers. Yeah. Um speci we have well, each region has five regional officers. We split the we split the entire California into 10 regions. Yeah. And each region sends two board members, them being the regional affairs director and the legislative affairs director. Think of the regional affairs director as kind of like the management of the region, maybe like the president of the region. Yeah. And then the legislative affairs director is the advocate in the region, the one that directs all the visits, all the priorities, stuff like that, and all the advocacy as well. Um, and then so those those make up the 20. But there's also six others. Those are the executive members, those are kind of serve as the overseers of of of each position. So the president oversees everyone, then there's the vice president, he oversees the people that are the vice chairs of the region. Then he also then there's also the VPRA or V VP of Regional Affairs, and they serve as the kind of the mentor of all the regional affairs directors, the or we call them RADs. Um and then the VPLA, the VP of Legislative Affairs, mentors us, what we call LADs. Uh, and then the VP of Finance does deals with all finance, and then VP of Communications deals with all of our outreach and communications with our regions.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Dang, it's so there's and it sounds like I'm assuming uh the way that you all have it set up, and it and I believe so, is that there's representatives from colleges across California. California is a very, very large state, so it's very much inclusive of trying to get the most representative voice of all the 116 colleges, correct?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Of course, yeah. So we have many layers of our organizational structure. That is the of course the I guess the what deals with internal practices is our board of directors. But we um all advocacy and policy initiatives that are started come from the delegates, and each college has their own delegate. They pick it and they'll be their their student body president, or maybe it'll be their director of legislative affairs, or maybe uh a VP of external affairs. Those are some of the names that I've came across when my time in the student senate. But each of them they all cast one vote and they all pick who's gonna be their um their executive body for each region and also their executive officers in total for the whole state.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

And so, um, so that's kind of the representation, and that's probably how you and from those individuals and their constituencies, you probably learn about what are the issues you're all gonna work on in um in the legislature, I'm assuming. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, of course. I mean, some of the big issues that we've got, and of course, I mean, immigrant immigrant rights has been a really big problem recently. The student senate uh last year had picked up some bills, one of them being SB98 by Perez. I mean, she did amazing work, but um, it was the ICE notification bill, and that's something that we thankfully got passed, and is gonna help out students in the in immigrant communities, you know, be a little bit, feel a little bit safer on their community college campus, because you know, it's it's a big thing with a lot of students not being able to even go to their graduation because they're scared they're gonna get picked up by ice.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah, absolutely. And um, so it it it sounds like um you you get all the the input and then you know um I'm assuming you do it in the fall uh to listen what the needs are, and then you do you all set it your agenda in the fall or in the in uh the spring to to so you can go with the legislative calendar?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, so we do all of our resolution passing, all the advocacy avenues they or the change they want us to make all in springtime. So the our General Assembly is going to be in March 27th through 29th. Uh that's when we vote on all our resolutions, all the delegates choose what the what they want to do next. Uh and then afterward, come fall, then we make our legislative priorities for the next year. Yeah. Then based on those priorities, then we'll choose different bills depending on how on what the push is from our own board members and also from what's happening around uh each campus and what seems like the most pressing issues.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Got it. And so we're in the where the legislature just finished introducing bills, the governor just uh uh presented his budget in January. So, what are some of the issues that you're all looking at to tackle this year?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, so some issues that we're trying to tackle this year is uh medicated abortion access on campuses. Also, something too is we're gonna try making sure that each student government uh or all student governments have the resources necessary to function properly, um, specifically in advocacy. So they have this fund called the student representation fund, shortened to SRF. The SRF fund then pays directly into their advocacy visits. So a lot of student governments will go to DC, they'll advocate there, they'll also advocate in in in Sacramento. Both of those avenues are used with the SRF funds, and also same with going to General Assembly as they're advocating on the statewide level. Um, but then we also get it paid into the organization too. Uh a lot of the strain that we have in the organizations, a lot of a lot of students are not able to go to the conferences that we have. I mean, it's such a b a burden having so many students at but I mean we want to bring them all. But unfortunately, with just the funding and the and the logistics of it, it just kind of gets crazy. It's also because California is such a big state. Even having a conference, and if you pick maybe one one year we go to North uh NORCAL when we go to SoCal, it it becomes a big problem having you know so many students to take up and down. So one thing we're trying to do is increase the amount of funding we can get for the organization to be able to function and serve the students as best as possible.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

And I think uh one thing folks might not understand um if they don't have a really good snapshot of California, but I'm sure you're very aware of this, is that the community colleges are located in in almost every part of California. There's a community college in Shasta, uh California, there's a community college in Tahoe, California, or South Lake Tahoe of California. Um they're everywhere. And so you have to think about well, what transportation infrastructure is there for students just to get to a major hub, right? So if you're coming from Tahoe or Shasta, well, how do you get to Sacramento to get to Los Angeles or other airports, right? What's the closest bus route or or so forth, you know, uh other folks that are in the the northern coast uh part of California. So, you know, and then think about some of the rural areas too, you know, out in uh um the Central Valley and so forth. So it is it is an issue, absolutely. Um, and and a lot of those students do attend your conferences and uh do advocacy with y'all, isn't that right?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah, they do. And I mean, I big thanks to them. I mean, they're making crazy drives. I know one of our board members, he loves to drive. He's from uh, I don't know the best way to describe it, is is Saracoso Community College. Uh-huh. I don't know exactly where that's at, but I know that it's more kind of around Bakersfield area, kind of. But he'll be driving up all the way to to our conferences that we have up in NorCal in Sac in Sacramento right here. And I mean, doing that type of drive, especially for a lot of other colleges as well, is kind of is kind of a lot a tall a tall order. And the flights too at the same time, because we have some people coming in from NorCal from the from the forest, I mean from Shasta Las and Butte. Yeah. Uh and all of those, I mean, it it takes a lot of resources to get down. And so it's necessary that they get the the funding they need to be able to function as advocates.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah, absolutely. So that no, that's great. So um, you know, college affordability happens to be one of the issues. It seems that the legislature is trying to tackle uh what are some of the priorities that you have in uh college college affordability this year?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

So one of them we have is through a Senate bill we right now are trying to co-sponsor with. We are currently supporting it. It's um uh SB960 by Calbadon. Um he is trying to expand the pathways for gaining commute uh baccalaureate degrees at community college campuses. Um because currently, under under the current law, uh community colleges can apply for uh baccalaureate programs on their campuses, yeah, but uh it can't be a duplicate of anything from the CSU or the UC system, and that's the entire state. So you you have colleges objecting, say from uh San Bernino uh college, um CSU San Bernardino, uh objecting to c uh camp uh courses all the way down from San Diego Mesa, which is a good solid three hour drive from each other. And uh and so one of the things that that bill aims to do is make it so that the the campuses that are turning away students um from their from their into from their college and impacted majors for multiple years, they instead can be brought over to community colleges as uh alternate degree pathways if they're not meeting the requirements for the CSU.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

So basically what you would be doing is offering, and it's uh it's allowed already, is to offer a BAA on community colleges.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yes, but it's it's limited in how many you can do. Uh there was a recent bill that unfortunately failed AB 1400 that was too doing something similar for nursing degrees because it's a bit there's a big nursing shortage problem in our rural colleges, and that was another thing he was trying to tackle as well. Um, and I know there's been a couple of bills also that have been introduced recently that relate to getting uh baccalaureate programs at certain different colleges, and there was a bunch that were also introduced last year as trying to be in uh a one-time, I guess, alternative in the legislature.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, and so it seems to be an issue that that's trending. Uh is there any, you know, I think student housing happens to be one of the bigger uh issues. Uh, you know, housing in general is an issue with the legislature. Uh, is there anything in that space that you guys are going to be doing this year?

SPEAKER_01 18:44

This year, I don't believe so. But if there is bills, we usually do support them. We are very supportive of those housing initiative bills, and we consistently get resolutions from our delegates that say they want better housing on campuses. Um we did have something as like an alternative to it because we do know it's a tall order to ask the legislator to to ask for such, you know, for crazy housing projects that can cost multi-million dollars just in a single district. We have so many colleges, it's kind of hard to get it across the across the board. But something that we did advocate for was A B 90, which unfortunately did not pass, but it was a safe uh parking bill. It's called kind of an alternative, or one of my friends likes to call it, it's a a band aid on a bullet wound or something like that. And I mean it's it was a bill that was hoping to, you know, alleviate some of the concerns with housing, but that's it is something that we do work on.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Dang. And so um it absolutely sounds you know really important. Um, you know, we hear about it from students all the time. Uh so those are some of the priorities that you have. Um, you know, uh there's a there's a budget deficit, but uh now all the all the bills have been introduced. So tell me, you've been with SSCCCC for a while now, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Uh kinda. I mean, if you could say so. We've I've only been for uh about seven, eight months, although I have served as a delegate beforehand. Um our unfortunately our terms are very short, it's just one year, and then we have to seek re-election if we want to go, and then there's term limits to that too. But it's it's kind of meant to be kind of like you get an opportunity to be a student leader in the community call system. I mean, there's so many people that are looking for that position. So I mean it it's kind of important that we have you know a new class consistently coming in.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

And and the the and I think one thing we always got to do with student leaders is always remind them, and your main objective is to graduate and transfer and all those receive your certificate and all those other things. So, in addition to balancing, um, so tell me about being a student leader now. Here are the issues, here's your priorities. This is kind of the landscape of the legislature. So, what has it been like in your experience um when you've done advocacy uh as a student trustee or a student leader or with SSCC? Um, when you're engaging with legislators, like w what are some of the things that they that you hear from them uh about some of your the priorities that you work on?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

They're usually very receptive to us as students. I I mean whenever I the times I've gone to as I've gone to the legislators' office, they always usually ask, what are your stories and what like what have you gone through and what are your experiences with these issues firsthand and what have your friends been dealing with? And that's something they really listen to is what those stories are because in a in a usually in a good setting with a legislative visit, you might want to talk about those personal anecdotes that you've had, and that usually can be the big driver. Because I mean they hear the data every day in, day out about what's going on, but when you really put a face in front of what's happening, it really gives a big push to what they what your ask is and what you want them to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

And um, um, so you know, the other thing I wanted to ask you, and I I apologize for for kind of going out of order, but um sometimes there's other well, not sometimes there are other uh uh student organizations. There's uh the so you all represent the community college students, uh there's There's uh UCSA, uh, that represents the UC students, and then there's the CSSA. Do y'all ever do anything jointly or work with them? Or what does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Historically, we have not worked with them as much as we could. We are system, we're not system partners, but we are partners. Yeah. Uh, we do work a lot on the same issues. I mean, with SB98, that uh the immigration alert bill. Um, that one we all served as co-sponsors on. We all worked together with uh um state senator Sasha Renee Perez to get that one passed. But it historically we haven't, but we have now tried to increase more and more um collaboration with each other. I mean, recently we we all joined the USSA, the United States Student Association, although we pulled out, but we got a lot closer with our compatriots in the in the UC system and the CSU system as a whole.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

We're trying to do more joint conferences, but again, this is a it's a working progress in the relationship between all of so and is that because the systems are unique in their own respective or what what's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, I I I I think we are a little unique in our own in our own ways. Uh, I mean the community college system, I think we're very well institutionalized with how our student voices is handled and held. Um but I mean there's also a bit of a difference because like community college, we're basically no cost to free um for a lot of students at our cut campuses, and there's going increasing cost between each of us. So we have our own priorities and and what issues we agree and rely on. But I think in all in all, we get along pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

That's great. So it sounds like there's that you're also working with uh with those student groups every now and then where there is some room, sounding like the uh bill with Sasha uh Senator Perez was all hands-on deck type of bill, and that's when you do a lot of collaboration. That's that's that's great to hear. Um so in in uh uh addition to to um uh some of the legislation you're working on, um, what are some of the um the other things that you think are gonna pop up uh based on feedback you've heard from uh SSCC?

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Like different types of bills or like what type of budget problems we might come across across?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah, or more so on the budget.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yeah, uh some of the stuff I've heard, I mean, the the legislative analyst office is is predicting like a what a 15 billion around 15 billion, correct me if I'm wrong, around 15 uh billion dollar deficit while the uh the governor's office is predicting around four.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

So something like that, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

So and with there's such a broad difference between the two of them, I feel like there could be some pushback in the legislature about the budget, and there might be some asks because the um all three of our education systems were treated really well in the budget. But we gotta see what ends up happening. Um and depending on if what type of pushback we might need to come across, we might need to go fight a fight against it and do some advocacy to make sure that we are being protected as a system for all three of us. Um and then also for the legislator, I don't think we have really anything that's too concerning coming from California. Usually it's just more bills of support. Yeah, yeah. Um, thankfully we have a very supportive legislator on on higher education, so I can't really say anything about against opposing anything there.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah, and you know, there's well, and I think the reason being is a lot of the legislators came from or they were community college students once themselves. Uh and so that's very helpful that they understand firsthand the needs. Some of them were members of uh uh community college uh districts, they're on the boards of trustees, so that's also helpful. Um, but you know, I think uh wanted to appreciate you for being on here, for taking the time uh to to chat with us, to let let us uh and others learn a little bit more about SSCC. Uh, we'd love to uh to get your final thought on today's podcast. Uh if you could go ahead and uh share anything uh that you wanted with us um before we close out.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Uh thank you for having me here. It was a really great opportunity to come speak about our the student senate. Um and I I just want to thank you. And uh I mean we don't usually get a lot of opportunities to really put our names out there into other spaces, so it's been a really good opportunity um from you guys.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Well, I'll just say for my closing thought, it was a pleasure to have you. I think uh someone who came and benefited from the community college system who I wasn't involved with SSCCC, but adjacent to it, given that I was a student trustee, uh really uh you know like working with y'all when when I was a student. When I was legislative staff, I worked with uh a lot of uh young uh advocates from SSCCC. And it's always good to see the the different leaders coming through. So uh continue to to uh plug in for anyone that's listening, that's a community college student, that wants to be a part of that program and uh that organization, uh whether it's formally or informally. Um remember uh the representation and being involved is is what's key. So uh thank you for coming on and especially coming all the way from Woody, California, uh uh close to my home hometown neck of the woods. Thanks, Carlo.