The Numbers Never Lie

How many networking events does it really take before you get paid?

In this premiere episode of The Awkward Handshake, Megan Eckman and Mary Williams start where most people are afraid to look: the math. After a year of consistent networking across the Portland–Vancouver metro, they finally sat down and tallied the numbers — events attended, coffee chats booked, rooms tested, and relationships built.

The result? A clear picture of what actually works, what takes time, and why one event will never change your business.

This episode unpacks:

• How many networking events Megan and Mary attended together and solo
• The surprising volume of coffee chats required to build real momentum
• Why consistency, not charisma, drives trust and referrals
• How “How badly do you want it?” became the core question behind every result
• Why traffic, logistics, and time complaints miss the real point
• The myth of instant conversions — and what actually leads to paid work
• How repeated exposure shortens trust-building timelines
• Why networking improves your messaging, offers, and confidence over time

You’ll also hear:

• The origin of the now-famous “What’s your favorite dinosaur?” question
• How neurodivergence shows up in networking rooms
• Why kissing a lot of frogs is not a failure — it’s data
• What it really means to treat business relationships like human relationships

This episode sets the foundation for the entire season: networking is iterative, uncomfortable, and deeply human — and it works when you stop pretending otherwise.

Keep in touch!

Follow Megan Eckman

• Fat Cap Design
• PDX Spellbound

Follow Mary Williams

• Sasquatch Media Grounds
• Sensible Woo

Transcript

0:00

This is The Awkward Handshake, a podcast about networking business and what really happens in the room. We're unpacking the good, the bad, and the awkward, so you can build better connections and get paid. Let's get into it. Megan, it is our first episode and I feel like I need to ask you this question because the first time we met, you asked me Mary, what's your favorite dinosaur? And we became such fast friends because I was like, Stegasaurus, duh. What is your favorite dinosaur? It has always been the velociraptor. This ages me, uh, I had to get the permission slip signed in sixth grade to watch the show. Because it was PG 13 and some kids weren't 13, so you had to get your parents to sign the slip that Yes, you can watch Jurassic Park. Thank you for brought, thank you for reminding me that I'm older than you. I know. So they, to bring in the big AV thing and as soon as I saw like the Velociraptors, I was like, Ooh, yes. You're so cute and deadly. I love you. It's not really the, the response I thought, but it it, it's a great question for everyone who knows this already and new friends to know that this question we now use in our group networking events because we have discovered how many people are truly neurodivergent and it's just such an easy question to anchor into. And we have discovered, people have given us the most interesting of responses. So we're gonna be sharing more things like that as we go through our whole season for the awkward handshake. Yeah. I mean, when I asked it of you. It became my primer to know, can I get along with the person? Hmm. And business owners are three times more likely to be neurodivergent. that is true. It generally, most of the time people know their answer. They do. but it's a question they are almost happy to be asked. Well, they were at our last coffee party. Yes. We had people chose animated dinosaurs. I didn't even know that was on the table. And we came up with a question and then. My, my most favorite mentor said, well, depends on the day of the week. I thought, this is why you're my mentor. Yeah. Okay. So that, but it shows that they're human. It does show that they're human and, and also business is people and we're gonna be talking about that and awful lot. And I just feel like it's such a great question for us to explain literally the first question that got us to become Yes friends. And just how much you need to recognize that quality more quickly when you're out in and about in your networking activities. Now you wish you'd ask What's your favorite dinosaur to like? Everybody. Everyone. I kind of wish I had done it more during the year, which we're gonna do in a second because we tallied up our numbers and you were patient enough.'cause Mary's been a little busy, so I did not tally up my numbers before we hit record and you had to wait for me to do it. The year felt very long. It was a very long year of numbers. But we promised everybody in the premier episode. The numbers don't lie. I think this has been the number one thing people have asked us out and about while networking, because now people know that we go out and network a lot and they're like, well, how many have you done? So we added them up because you did your homework properly the way we agreed to. Would you like to go first and tell everybody your numbers? Yeah. so together when you and I were Yes. Friend buddies, yes. And rocked in. In one car. Um, we went to 42 events this year. In 2025? Yes. How many weeks in the year there? That's 52. So we are, uh, we're shy by one. We're shy Maybe next year. Goals of goals? 2026 goal? solo. I had roughly 60 coffee dates. So these are not discovery calls? These are, I met somebody, they were weird and I wanted to learn more. and I also had about 10. Networking events that I attended solo most of the time online, trying to test out different rooms, uh, to see what I liked and what I didn't. Well, there was one that you did go to and I was somewhere, was I traveling or something? But I couldn't go or it was double booked or something. And I remember you texted me and you were like, Mary, it's so loud in here. Oh yes. That was an, yeah, that was an in-person one. I walked in the door and the building was like a tin can, like literally metal. And there were a hundred people inside and I swiped my name tag, took a few steps in, and then just turned immediately and left and got back in my car. Yeah, we're gonna save the noise. Level one for feature. We have so many things to say about noise levels in event rooms, which I think also speaks to, I don't even think it's a neurodivergent thing. I think it's a human thing. I mean, you shout and then your vocal cords are sore. Yes. I'm, I'm gonna save it. I'm not gonna turn this episode into that episode, I promise. but yeah, you, you did a lot. That's a, that's a lot when you add all of that up together, that's. Way more than one per week on average of some kind of connection conversation, whether it's group or solo or something. Yes. Yeah. well we also discovered like you had gone through your calendar and added up what we had done together and then when I went through my calendar I was like, wait, well what about these? Yes. And there were more. I'm sure we've missed a few, but, um, you were very patient and waited for me to go through my calendar, so, drum roll please. Somehow I beat you in solo coffee dates. I had 64. In 2025 and I went to 23 groups, both in person and online without my yes friend. I don't even know how that happened. You were cheating on me somehow. How? How do I have a life without you? I didn't think it was possible. I'm so used to picking you up and then we carpool and it's been such a great way and space in that car sitting through traffic, which we're gonna talk about in a minute, and we've been able to digest like how did that feel for you and what were the things you noticed? And sometimes discovering with relief, like, oh God, it wasn't just me. You were having the same problem too. Yes. Or even going like on the way in, you know, it's What's your goal? Yes. Well, you started asking me that first, which. Bless. Thank you. And because we got to know each other increasingly better and better and better since we've been doing this. And we finally got a little more organized between the two of us. It only took us how many us to do that. Yeah. But then, but then I think like there came a point too where, and we'll talk about like being a good wing person to your person in future episodes this season, but being able to watch each other and then in the car be like, you know, you said that so much better this time. Or, you know, I noticed when you say this, like they tune out. Like, have you tried using like this term? And then we would go back to another event and try it and it's amazing. Yeah. And I think to clarify too, because I think a lot of people assume when you come with someone Yeah. You stay with that person. Yeah. There are some events that we do. Mm-hmm. There are some where we can read the room and we're like, I, eh. Let's just have a good time together and we'll meet the few people that we wanna meet and if they're cool enough to hang with us. But a lot of the other ones, we, we kind of split right away. Yeah. And we like touch base. Yep. Every few conversations, you know, and yeah. Every now and then, or bring somebody in, you know, like, oh, you need to meet so and so and like bring them over to each other. I feel like we've gotten a lot better at that. The, the more frequent one was the look across the room like, oh dear God, save me, please help me. Then you just notice swoop in and be like, didn't you have a place to be? Well, yes. On the other side of the room, I'll away from them. This is a great way to just show the math because I think the numbers behind what we've done. Really explains that it's not just, oh, we do a lot of networking. No. Like we do a lot of networking and it pays off. It's not always easy, but it really brought up this core theme as we were assembling all of our notes for this episode. And the theme was, how badly do you want it? And honestly, that kind of surprised me. I didn't think that was gonna be the theme of the episode. I thought we were gonna talk about sitting through traffic but how badly do you want it is really the core mantra because at the end of the day, like, we want it real bad. Yeah. And I think one, let's, let's define it. Mm. So, I mean, I can speak for myself first, but like for me, I was in this huge pivot of ending a business thinking I knew what I was gonna do next. Having many difficulties, um, and needing to, as my husband, so kindly put it, be the spider at the center of the web that everyone comes to. And so I went out and was trying to find a vast amount of people. So I needed clients, I needed collaborators, I needed subcontractors, I needed friends. I found you. Mm-hmm. Um, and so it for me was kind of like huge. I needed so much and so, you know, I needed to make money and so I needed it badly. Yeah. I feel that for me, I feel that in my world too. Um. By the time we get to the end of the episode, we'll be telling everybody our hot takes and what we each really took away from this. I opened a brick and mortar this year and I think mine was much more How badly do I want it, it, it was born out of having done a lot of self-reflection. So I'm, I'm an avid journaler to process my life and my world and it's mental health care is journaling for me. And I found myself idolizing my years living and working in Los Angeles, and I thought, oh, it must be because there's more access to more things or whatever. But the more I peeled back the layers and dug into it, I realized that I had a social network there and a professional network there that was incredibly valuable. It helped me hop to better jobs, but also my life was just more enriched. and then after that I had moved to Austin, Texas, and it just didn't even realize that, how important that network was for so many reasons. And then I, I couldn't rebuild it. Like it just didn't happen in Texas. And I did not last as long there. and so then I moved here and COVID broke out. So when I first moved here, I did the thing that. You do where you fire up Meetup and Eventbrite and you go to anything that you can find.'cause you don't know anything, you don't know anybody and you're just like, I just gotta get out there. And that has always worked and I would argue that it still works. You gotta start somewhere. But I, but then COVID broke out, so everything was online and I have been full-time online since 2016, so that wasn't weird for me. But when the world reopened again, I looked around and I was like, well, everybody who I'm really close with is not here. Then we were introduced and we just started going out and doing things and going to these events because you were just as dinosaur, we as me apparently. And so we did, and, for me, like the, the, how badly do you want it was, I need to make sure I rebuild a structure like I had during those LA years that were so vitally important. And I would say, I mean technically you and I have been Yes, friending for about two years. And about two years later, like the quality of life is so remarkably different. Like it's, it's really important. So yeah, I, I think like, how badly do you wanna eat? Finding that reason why you want that, I think matters. Yeah. Well I think, I used to hate when people would say like, exactly that. How badly do you want it? Yeah. But it's true. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm currently writing a book, how badly do you want it? Do you want it bad enough that you're gonna wake up half an hour early? Mm-hmm. Or do you want it badly enough? You're gonna section out two hours of your day. That is sacred. We wanted this badly enough that we are like, we are gonna hop in the car. We're gonna drive across the bridge into Portland at five o'clock and go who knows where, you know, and who knows who we'll meet. Yeah. But I think for a lot of people like it comes down to asking like, for my business and my livelihood, how badly do I want the dream vision of my, in quotes, success? Well, and that requires people, people, business. It does people, and I think the hardest part of modern day entrepreneurship, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that online entrepreneurship has lied to so many people with a false narrative that you can create anything and duplicate it online and on paper. I would say yes. That is very true. The systems required to do that are so labor intensive, I would argue even more labor intensive than just getting in your car and sitting in rainy Pacific Northwest weather, sitting in rush hour Portland traffic to go to some panel talk or some networking thing. It's actually easier to do that than to fish around in a sea of online, I don't know who this is. I don't know what this is. I don't know how to vet them. Like I half the people, have their cameras off. I literally cannot see the whites of their eyes. I don't, I don't know who's in this room. And being thrown into breakout rooms where all you're seeing is from shoulders up. Half of them aren't wearing pants. Let's be honest. Don't trust somebody who's not wearing pants put on pants. Come on. I don't know how people do that. And, and. You, you don't really develop the same kind of connection you do when you do some networking. So like, I mean, you and I do plenty of online servicing for clients, but you still need in-person connection. It helps you be a better human, I think, and it helps those online connections feel you more deeply. What's your take? Small question. Well, yes, no, my brain went, you know, a DHD eight directions. Um, one is that I think the fact that, so I help people build recurring revenue streams and the fact that more people wanna build memberships than subscriptions is kind of that signal that people are craving more and they, they want a way to connect with each other. A lot of times subscriptions have to move up to memberships because the people are literally like begging for, I need a Slack channel, I need monthly calls. and when you run that sort of thing, it's, it's a whole new ask. so I think people really want these things and yet they're still left wanting more. And so you will see, um, when I ran my last business there, I did not have a membership aspect to my embroidery club, but people would meet up, they would figure out where each other lived, and like, let's meet at the cafe and let's sew together. And that was great, but you could tell how much they wanted it and like, we still do. and so I, I think there's so many subtle cues that you can't see on the camera. Agreed. And there's so many, as we talk about like my radar is, is much better in person to know like what this person is thinking, feeling, doing, not wait to get to that episode. We have it on our spreadsheet because you have this superpower of reading people like, I thought I was pretty good. No, you are like light years ahead of me. It's amazing. But you're right though, people can perform better online because there is still a screen between you. Yeah. And in person. It's just a lot harder to fake it. A lot harder. Um, which, which kind of, you know, brings us into some of like the high points that we wanted to talk about for this inaugural episode. but we really wanted to address the question, you know, like, does it really take that much time? Because it's been one of the main things people ask us when they see us again and again and they're like, why are you guys literally everywhere? And we're like, because we are. And they're like, well, how much time does it take? Like how much time are you really spending doing that? Well, we've answered that question with all of the math that we, we showed. But you know, when we talk about business being people, you and I were talking before the episode before we hit record. I was saying that, you know, you have to make time for connections and it requires effort. If business is people, it's just like your friendships. Like you wouldn't call someone your best friend and then ghost them for like 10 years, wander away and then come back and be like, Hey, best friend, and expect them to, can you help me move? Yeah. Can I borrow your truck? And like, and, and I think in business we forget that and it, but there's also a fine line and we'll talk about this in future episodes'cause it's such a complex topic. It's not socializing like your friendships. There is a social aspect, but a business relationship has still has a social aspect, but it has this, a professional, you know, flavor to it. But those professional contacts still need to be treated like you would treat a friend. Especially if you want the referral or you wanna collaborate or you want access to their list or you, you know, you, you need something from them. Business as people and, and I just feel like we meet into pe we meet people, we'll bump into them maybe like once or twice a year, and they're like, Hey, oh me, like, how you doing? And it's like, I haven't seen you in month. Like I, I'm good, but how are you? Yeah. So there's, we kind of clocked how many times we had to see somebody. Yeah. Before you could make a referral or set up a discovery call and it was about three to four. Mm-hmm. And I just remembered that back when I used to do wholesale. I looked into doing like New York now, so this is the big, it's at the Javits. This is, you're laying down and back in the day, 10 years ago, six grand, who knows what it is now. and that was just for the booth. That was just for a 10 by 10 square cement. Um, but I knew people who used to do it all the time every year, and they would tell me it takes three years to get orders because the buyers need to know that you are successful enough that you are going to be around to keep supplying their customers. And it's kind of the same, right? Yeah. If you're successful, you kind of are still going to these things and you're like updating people and we can see that you're hustling. And so we kind of trust you to be around for our customers and clients when we need you. That just made me think of something too, because I was thinking of a few people we have in our network who are amazing and they're honestly too big and too busy to be going to a ton of networking events, which was another thing we have noticed. But even though they're too busy to go, sometimes they have people from their staff who will go in their stead. Yep. But they're so active building a real business that everyone's had meetings or chats with them somewhere else or just don't have time to be at the thing that evening and, You still know that they're around and like the, the community is so small at the end of the day, and people really know each other's business. And so now we have discovered that effect for ourselves, I think.'cause people know what we're doing and I feel like when we show up, it's not a surprise. They know we're there. And just your presence and then being top of mind for everybody is so prevalent that it shortens that amount of trust building time. Yep.' cause the trust is because consistently there, it's not like you're there in January because we're both predicting, we're recording this like literally right before New Year's Eve and, and we'll flip into January mode and everyone's like, oh no, I need to build. And then the, it's like the gym being full. It's like the gym. The groups are full. And then, and then it's like, oh, this takes effort. I'm tired. It's like, yeah, sometimes you're, how badly do you want it? And I don't see the results. How badly do, do you want it? It's really uncomfortable. Yeah. You have to confront a lot. And you have good days and bad days yourself too. And so does everybody else that you're talking with. It's just very complicated. But, but that, how badly do you want It then takes us into logistics. Traffic is the number one logistic we hear about from people, but they can't believe that we have driven over the bridge that many times.'cause we, we both live in on the Vancouver side. And I think that's why we became Yes friends, is because both of us were like. Duh. Go over the bridge. How hard. It's literally 15, 20 minutes. Even in bad traffic. We've never just sat on the bridge. Well, I mean, I know my, I'm a little biased. Well, and you lived and worked in the Bay. Yeah. So both of us have maybe a slightly skewed, yours was worse, but Yes. We, we have just sat, literally sat like full stop. Yeah. 20 to 40 minutes. You know, put on your podcast. We're not, we're not moving. I once sat at an intersection in LA. And the light. Like I parked my car first, I parked my car and then finally everybody know it's bad turning off their engines and the light's just turning and nothing's moving. And it's, you know, like four or five lanes of local traffic in one direction and everyone's headed towards the freeway. It's like, what freeway? I don't know. It's all the parking lot. And then you get to the point where you're like, well, shit, I gotta pee. And there was a Starbucks and so people were going to Starbucks to get a snack and to go use the restroom. And like all the drivers were just talking to each other, like just start honking the horn of the traffic's moving so like people would know to come out and get their cars. And I still remember that night and like a drive that should have taken me no more than an hour. Took three. That was a bad night. So, so that's my worst traffic story ever. And I know that that's not normal and I don't expect Moreland traffic to be like that. No. But the traffic here moves. It does move. And, and I think that it can seem like a time suck. I think this is a great like, advocacy moment for finding a yes friend or yes friends and going together in carpooling for the purposes of peer masterminding while you're in the car. Or even just like hanging out and getting some of that social time that people crave and, otherwise you are by yourself. But I mean, even when I have, apparently I went to a lot of events without you this year, and I would sit in my car and I would catch 'em on my podcast or listen to my s muddy audio books or whatever, but I dunno, I've just never had a hard time being okay filling that time. So I, I personally don't understand where it comes from, but I don't know, maybe you have other opinions. No, it, it's never bothered me.'cause I think it just, it's part of the deal. Yeah. Like I, I got it. What is it? It is the British expression. Is it, is what it says on the tin. Like I know, I knew it was going to take me a little bit to get there because I know I'm heading into downtown Portland at this time of day. And there's, we're gonna talk about this in other episodes. Like, I have anxiety, so I will google map the location to look at the parking. I will know where I'm gonna be parking. I will know that, oh, this is not a good one, but we're going in anyway. Like, how is this a building, like building skillset, uh, moment instead of a let's freak out on the highway. I think it helps too. Yes. We've both lived in much bigger places. I think also, uh, I'm a cyclist, so I'm just like. You know, in the winter you're just putting down like filler miles to just keep her like to do the reps endurance. Yeah. So it's You're doing the reps. Yeah. So you just go to a happy place. You just utilize that time to do something else. I love that.'cause you're talking about reframing things and I wonder how many people who complain about the traffic will sit through traffic to go to the gym because they believe going to the gym and doing the reps at the gym gives them the body they want for some outcome that they want. And it's like, so how badly do you want the business part then? Because you want the looks and the body part and hopefully that includes your health. Yes. But like you, you want that. I can see how badly you want that. And that may not be everybody's thing that they want, but you know, it's an easy example to recognize And I, and I think figuring out a way to reframe the traffic question is so important because once you and I started hosting our private coffee parties here in the studio, our big question was, you know, how many people will drive over the bridge for us now? Yep. Like the other way, you know the numbers now, like we have driven a lot over the bridge. And let me tell you, my mileage deduction on my taxes every year is fantastic. I don't mind it. And, and I just don't know that, um. People realize how much of a trust builder that is because when somebody comes over the bridge for us, we immediately are like, what can we do together? Yep. How can we speed up this process of getting to know each other better? Because you put in that effort and they equally are like, oh, thank goodness, and good people hosting things. And I, I, I just feel like the traffic thing has just been such an interesting question that has come up so many times. Well, two things. One ' cause I didn't even, 'cause it's not tax season yet, but Yeah. You're literally, you can get paid, you're getting paid to try, deduct the mileage, deduct it, and if you don't use an app to track your mileage, like that should be the first thing you do in the new year. The second is, and I'm sure it'll come up later, like you and I were part of, or are part of a feral book club. Yes. Now we don't, we don't have children. Yes. So that, you know. I take everything with a grain of salt. However, I would think most mothers would be like, I could be alone in my car with my audio erotica for an extra 40 minutes. Yes, please. Yes, please. Yes, please. Oh, no honey, I have another networking event to go to. You will have to put the children to bed tonight because I have another chapter to read. Like Well, I love that you bring that up though. You know, I have parented in a past relationship and, and I know exactly what it's like to manage a schedule where you have a kiddo on your schedule and they're not a teenager, so you can't leave them at home. They, they need help. They need being looked after. It is entirely possible, but it gets into, you know, this commentary that we're having on logistics and just kind of moving on from traffic. The whole notion of managing your time and your calendar. And to prioritize something that you need. Like if, like, if your, if your lead pipeline is really sort of shriveled up and dried right now, the best thing you can do is get out there and start networking and figuring out, my husband is like, yes, you're going again. Awesome. What else do you need to help me get you out the door? Like, go get that money. Go get that money that call me. Need t-shirts, go get that money. But that, but it's kind of the feeling. And, and then we don't always go to network just 'cause we're like, who's gonna bite me in this room? We're gonna talk about that in a future episode.'cause that's, oh no, a very common thing. There's so many itches to scratch when we go, but sometimes we're just super morbidly curious. Like, yeah, what does that, what does that place look like on the inside? What does that coworkings face look like on the inside? And or who's gonna show up? Is it the usual? Or who goes to a hot sauce panel? Oh, hell yeah, that looks, looks so good. Do we sell hot sauce? No. Do we sell product right now? No. Can we say we've met the founder of what? Hot mama. Oh, hot Mama Salsa. And the guy from Yoda. Oh yes. Yoshida Foods. He was amazing. Yeah. And then I met the founder of Hab Sauce. My favorite chili crisp. That was amazing. Sitting right next to him. It was fantastic. Um, but you wouldn't have done that No. If you hadn't gotten out your door? No. Did it get you business? No, but we made connections there. We made connections and those people still see us. Mm-hmm. But also it was so great to hear their answers. We had so much conversation in the car on the way back. Yeah. There was so. Much in terms of creativity when it comes to how you market something. And because they're product based businesses, there's a tangible thing. Yep. Which, you know, as a former product based owner. Yep. And, and so it just had us talking about so many things in marketing. And I dare say we picked apart quite a few things that helped us make sure we're like, oh, we're not gonna do like what she said. This gets into sort of like our final like high point for doing the math and how badly do you want it? And it just really comes down to the notion that you really do have to kiss a lot of frogs. You're gonna meet a lot of people. They're not always gonna be great. Like there's, I would say 90% of the people are just frankly fucking weird. They're just weird. I'm sure somebody else has met me and they're like, wow, that girl uses the F-bomb a lot. I can't stand her. I'm like, great. We're not, we're not meant to be friends. But I like, I think that there are just, there's very interesting people. We've seen the whole gamut. We have seen the whole thing. I've had people tell me things I know you have too, where I'm like, wow, I can't believe you just said that to me. It never came event. Like we literally just exchanged business cards and you're telling me about your divorce. Like, wow, that was not on my bingo card tonight. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've seen, we've seen everything from. Misogynistic Tech bros. Oh God. The one guy who Yep. Never acknowledges women in front of him. Ew. I wanna punch him. Literally stole the man we were talking to and angled himself away from us and tried to get him out the door because he was having a great time with us. Um, we saw him at demo, malicious champion of champion. He goes to everything. And then he saw my face and just turned right around and went the direction. I was like, you better run. You better run. So we, we've seen that, we've seen MLM, lots of MLM, lots of MLMs. we've seen people who are very neurotypical. We've been in a whole room. Full of neurotypical people and realize that's why it felt so weird. Thanks to you. I figured that out. That's what that means. Yes. I was like, why is this so weird? Why is it so awkward? Like it always feels like there's so much dead air. Yes. And then you pointed out, oh, you were probably talking to neurotypical people. Mm-hmm. And ever since you have pointed that out to me, has gotten so much easier to handle. Yes. I don't like it when it happens. No, because it can handle it though. It literally is like every sentence is going through a translator both ways. And so both of you are like, huh, you want, huh? But the good thing is that they generally don't. Think you're as weird as you are, assuming you're presenting. Are you sure about that? I think they get pretty weird. I think they're jealous. But um, like we've met people who run very traditional businesses. We've met a hell of a lot of real estate agents, but then we've also met people who run really weird niche. I mean, we got the most recently, the guy who runs video script, who won Demo Malicious who helps. Oh, that amazing. AI Viddy Scribe. Viddy Scribe. Thank you. Um, oh, his business is amazing. And his pitch was Yes, chef's Kiss. It was so good. So good. But it's like, there's people like that that are just doing incredible things that, so we, we've kind of, we've been in many rooms. We've seen you almost kind of get to make these like archetypes of people. Mm-hmm. And it lets you quickly decide. Where they fit. What am I gonna do with them? Yeah. Do I keep talking? Well, and they're doing the same back to us too, especially in the founder community. Yes. I find that the people who are in various organizations are really evaluating the crowd. They are definitely clocking. How often do I see these people? How much can I depend on them? How consistent are they? And I think that it's really easy as a business owner who's not done a lot of networking to think, oh, I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna find somebody who can answer this question about how do I get more money if we're gonna talk about during Premier Week. But that's not, that's not how that happens. And it's also not how you find clients. We get lots of leads for clients. But, but it's people relationships. Yeah. You don't just walk in and go, I'm going to tell this person my sales pitch, and they're gonna be like, oh my God, I've been looking for you. Give me your contact info and here's some money. There would be amazing. We'd be so rich right now. but you wouldn't want them to do that to you either. No. Remember when they, and when it does happen, you're like, run away. Run away. Remember what they used to say about social media, where it was like, if all you did was like just post about your business, it was the same thing as being in a party. Yeah. And just shouting. yeah, like Monty Python, Monty Python's life of Brian, where it's just like the, I love that movie. You get to sit on your, like the little heretic spot or whatever and just shout your, like, shout your conspiracy theory. it's like shouting conspiracy theory. Yeah. It's kind of like that when you go into networking and you're just like, here is what I do. Are you interested? Can you give me money? And you're just like, I ju Hi. I don't even know what your name is. Um, well we met someone recently who apparently runs like six MLMs or some, her whole back of her business card was all M lms and the conversation was kind of like that. And it was a little deceiving'cause she like had, it was, she had learned enough to have an engaging interaction and then all of a sudden it was like this bait and switch. Oh. I ended up in a coffee date. Yes. Thinking.'cause she wanted. She wanted to work with me and then it quickly became apparent. Oh, she wanted it both ways. Thank you for taking one for the team. Yeah, that was a terrible coffee shop too. And it was one of those where you literally start looking at the exit and you're like, do I pretend that I like just suddenly got diarrhea? Like, have to run out. Do I go to the bathroom and just never come back? Or how do I end this conversation? I did like, 'cause you know it's good when they like, it's like a pyramid scheme except, and you're like, oh, oh no. Oh no. And then, I mean then it's kind of like Girl Scout badges, like I'm just collecting all the badges. So like be like, oh are you saying we need to start merch and have badges that you can collect for all the weird things been approached by M lms, you've earned your MLM approach. Beds. I mean they fascinat me. I love, they are fast. I love how they work. My favorite is when we were in a room full of realtors and the guy was going off about how dumb women are.'cause they fall for MLMs all the time. And then the next breath he told me about is crypto. It's just M for news. Oh no. I was like, you totally feel more too. Oh God. Well, I mean, you win some, you lose some, right? So yeah, if anything, I mean, you pointed out that. If anything, when we kiss a lot of frogs out there, it gives us a chance to ab test our pitches. And that, I think has been very, very true. And sometimes we walk into a room and you and I are both like, we are not splitting up. Do not leave me alone in this room. And, and that we have done this sort of naturally now, and we'll kind of go around and we know that the whole room is full of frogs and we're just like, well, we're here now and we sat through rainy shit traffic. And we're like, but they have a couple good hor d'oeuvres. And like, we'll, we'll last and then we'll just kind of practice. Telling people what we do because you need to do the reps. Yeah. I have known for years how terrible I am at telling people what I do and also not memorizing the who you serve and what you offer spiel like a really bad BNI intro, which has been sort of the go-to thing that people do. And not that it's a bad thing to be able to tell somebody super succinctly. I mean, bless you if you can do that. Yeah. But like to just have the conversation around what you do. Is so useful. I think sometimes too, like if I can get somebody, let's say it's a room full of MLM or realtors and I tell 'em about running a studio and they get super excited about it, even though it has nothing to do with what they wanna do. And they are so not my ideal people, but they get excited about it. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm hitting a right nerve and if I can explain a complicated topic and they're like, oh, get it. That totally makes sense. I can't believe I never thought of that before. I'm like, yep, those are the words. I got it now and, and it sticks. And so then the next time we're in a room where it actually matters. We really feel the difference, I would say. Yeah. Will you have a standup background? I do. I would assume it's very similar where you have to test it on the rooms. a lot of times now what they tell you is like, I try to say what you do as though you're talking to eight year olds. No, but I, I think it's great because we have, I have gone to so many networking events and some tech bro tries to tell me what he does. And because of the industries that I've worked in, I'm just like, Uhhuh, I have no idea what that means. And that's like, could you, but then when they like, are able to explain it and like, I help, you know, I make the noises in videos. I'm like, oh, well that's cool. That is cool. Do you have a room full of props? And they're like, yes, I'm, oh, okay. Tell me like, tell me more now I'm interested. Tell me more. I think that's so smart though. We have been in rooms of tech guys where it literally feels like they're talking to you in code. And you're just like, and I need to go refresh my drink now. But yeah, I, I think finding ways, I love this talking to an 8-year-old thing, like finding ways to make it engaging, engaging and tangible or like, if you can have examples mm-hmm. Like I think getting people excited. Yeah. Because I've watched you introduce yourself and, and I dunno if we'll talk about this later, but you made a big switch from content Yeah. Producer to media producer. Well that was thanks to you because I think it slipped outta my mouth. Yeah. And you noticed it. And I did not notice that I had done it. You said it, everyone near you, like visibly like, took a half step back and were like. Oh, it was like you, you know, like did the hair flip and you were like, ex Disney, me, you know, with the wind in my hair. And it was just like, they were like, oh my God, she does media. You know? It did change things. Change it, it, how did my husband put it the other day? You can, like the dollar signs on Yelp. It like, put an extra dollar sign over your head. I was like, I am very expensive. I like being, makes people money. You know? I like being bougie and expensive. Well, it was like you and I were trying to figure out, because design thinking was the thing that, like being a just people can't, they cannot, they cannot go there. It's, no, that took me like six months. Yes, yes, yes. Nobody likes, I was helping people like, as I would say, like get unstuck. And that's what I helped you do to get the studio you did. Nobody wants to admit that they're stuck. No. But, but then I, one day I remember we were in the car and I was like, pimp me out. Just don't tell them design thinking. Just tell them, well, like Mary here, she just got keys to a brick and mortar and this is how I helped her. And you, you tried it a couple times and they instantly were like, oh. And then there was a real person and they, I remember a couple people were like, did she really? And I'm like, yes, she really did. And it changed the conversation. And so I, I, I think like the notion of kissing frogs is so necessary because everything is theoretical until you just start doing it and having those conversations and you just, you're gonna flub. It's like, you're right, it is like standup. You are gonna bomb so hard so many times. And you have to bomb. Yeah, you have to. Well, the fun thing too is that I guess it's enough. I love iteration, so it's fun for me. It can actually help you figure out your offering. Because one, you might not be selling it the right way, but also the entry point might not be right. And so as you go and you talk to these people, you can begin to see like, oh, they think I know what their real problem is, but this is what they think the problem is. And so you're actually able to be like, let me make a workshop or like a package specifically, because I keep meeting these people and what I'm pitching them is not resonating, even though when I listen to them I know exactly this is the problem. Mm-hmm. And so it took me like this whole last year of like, keep trying, keep listening, keep listening, keep trying, keep listening. To finally be like, oh, you just needed this. And it's normally some, In mind, like in the design thinking and customer-centered business world, it's called like, uh, the psychological benefits of your offering and psychological benefits. So you have like, features, benefits, psychological benefits. The psychological benefits are the deepest ones. And I always tell my clients, imagine that it's a teenager and it's what they're screaming at you right before they slam the door, like you're the parent. And so it's normally like, that should just be easier. Or like, I just want people to gimme money or why don't people like me? Now there's a question. That's the psychological, but yes. But this is such a, this is such a beautiful way to help us wrap up because. Your results this year really were around reframing your offers. I mean, you still landed, because I've got the notes in front of us, you still landed a $10,000 contract that came directly through networking. So yes, you did make some, like a nice five figure contract there. Yes. Just through networking alone. Yes. I would not have, um, it was with a nonprofit and I got championed in by the woman that I networked with for honestly, quite a few months. Like, we were in a, a group together and we got to know each other, and then we had some like, coffee dates. And then she was like, you know what? I'm on this nonprofit board and we really need what you do. Let me get you, like, give me your proposal and I will get this through. And she did, like, she went to bat for me. the other things that I got from all of this though was yeah, it was a lot of like reframing. Burning it down, building it again, burning it down, building it again, burning it down, building it again, but each time coming back like so much closer to what it needed to be. Yeah. And I think I also just needed the time to really get to know what I wanted to do and what I wanna, when I'm good at, and what I wanna help people do. and now kind of ready to go into 2026 with like, we're there, I think you're highlighting how long it actually takes to do a proper pivot. Oh yeah. It's deeply uncomfortable. Years. Yeah. Two years. That's, that was mine too. I think I was maybe six months ahead of you. You like to think, oh, I was making X I'll just open this new business. No. And make, but you have no audience. You need a full and burnout. And the market has burnout and then the market has been hella weird and. Yeah. It's been like every possible variable. Yeah. And I'm like, what kind of quadratic equation are we solving? Because it sucks, but sometimes it takes that long just to get the right foundation. Yes. And networking definitely has to be in your foundation. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta put in the reps. I definitely found my results at the end of the year. The big one was establishing the brick and mortar. I found key foundation help, though I have the right bookkeeper slash CFO now. That was through networking. Shout out to Alex. I found the right mentor. Shout out to Dave. I, I found so many people that allow me to grow, that have created space, expansive space. So my pipeline for the coming year is. Fucking stacked man. I've never, it's so exciting. I mean, I, I had some big years during COVI and post COVID coaching online, and I have never had a pipeline stacked like this before. And it is so exciting. It's also like, oh, holy shit. But it's so exciting and, and so I think it's interesting that, um. The things you and I both called out as our biggest result wins from all those numbers. Because we know people are like, which money did you make? Yep. And it's like, yeah, I made plenty of good money. this was not my best. 2025 was not my best revenue year. No. I don't think it was the best revenue year for most anybody. No. But I did a lot better than most. I would argue you also did a lot better than most. And like I established a brick and mortar and paid for the darn thing. Like, you know, how much And I paid for it myself. Thank you very much. Yeah. There were, that was not some SBA loan. I did not go out and, you know, start, do a Kickstarter or anything like that. Like, I mean, that was a power move and. It all came because I had evidence from having a stronger support network and a local network that validated the data that I was researching and looking for. That was like, yes, the answer is yes, there is a gap in the market, there is market for it, and people want it. And also like I have a support network around to help me build it and grow it. So yeah, I, I would say there is a lot of money behind that. You know, is this the year that I get to say like, I made$10 million that is coming, but, but the, like, the pipeline is stacked in a way that would not be there without that networking. I would literally be flying, like in foggy blind conditions without knowing the local market. Yeah. And it's not something that other people will have come out of it, but we also decided to start holding our own Yes. Events. Well, and we'll talk about the one that failed before this one. So frustrating. Uh, and, and to do the podcast and everything like that. Like there's, sometimes there's, you don't see dollar signs attached, but it does grow your business in ways you didn't expect. There's the mic drop. Okay. So Megan, what's your hot take for this episode for listeners to take away? What's the question that you're asking them? I think it, it's still, it's kind of, it still goes back to like the how much do you want it, you know, it's like, are you honest with yourself about how much you need to network? Yeah. Because we met so many people that said, yeah, this is what I need. I then we didn't see 'em. There's people we've never seen again. No, I bet we'll see them at some point in January. But like we put up the bat signal and like it was still just Batman and Robin came, but like nobody else, like Yeah. I mean, people asked us Yes. They were like, can I come? What are you doing? We were like group chat. Yes. Still, still. Just Batman and Robin, just Batman and Robin. Justin. Can I pee Robin? Sure. Yeah. My hot take is that you need to practice your social skills. Oh. And you can't do that alone in your home office. Like, you actually have to get out there and talk with real people and you're gonna bomb. I've had, I've had plenty of awkward days too. Oh yeah. Yeah. But you've gotta have social skills and I think you and I get compliments from people where they're like, oh, you guys are so approachable and warm and whatever. And it's like, yes, we, we are, we like to think of ourselves as nice people. Yeah. Also we've had practice interacting with every kind of person. So even when somebody is a little unhinged or really super awkward, at least we don't kind of recoil and make it extra awkward and at least give somebody the dignity of being able to show up and finish that conversation, even if it's short. That's 'cause the police officer taught me the don't blink. The don't blink rule what you do. Yep. So, I used to do martial arts and yeah, we had a police officer come in once and she was like, the rule is don't blink. Don't blink.'cause she's like, you will hear the weirdest stuff and they won't trust you if you blink. So if you don't blink it means it's okay. Like it did not shock me. So I You can't, yeah. So when we get in the awkward situations, it's just like, and they're like, let me tell you, I put divorce and you're like, don't blink. Sure, go ahead. I will just tune this out. But like, but if you blink, you know, if you make it awkward, like you said, you, you will lose them. And you don't know what you might gain from them. Or like they might shut down and that might've been their one networking event of the year. Well, we met someone earlier this year and she was real awkward when we first met her, and then we got to know her a little bit and she relaxed and she's the coolest person ever. Yeah. But like, if, if we hadn't been patient enough to hold space Yeah.'cause it was a prolonged period that took her to unwind and relax Yeah. Into like a good conversation. but yeah, I, I realized it's so funny that you're like a police officer. Don't blame me because I just realized while you were talking that I think like, it's like a hologram. I envision it going around my neck like a priest collar and I'm like, hold space. Yeah. Let them say what they need to say with compassion. And we're both that sort of person though that like, I will get somebody on like the light rail. Who will just tell me their life story. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I did not even say anything to you. Mm-hmm. But that's great to hear about your tattoos and your daughter and your people have confessed so many things to me in so many places. And so I think we're those sorts of people that we get extra. Oh, we do. I think we have a safe, yeah, we have safe energy, we have therapy therapist, energy.'cause we've done so much therapy outside. I mean, which, you know, could be its own episode. Yeah. Could be the therapist. Um, because it's very helpful. But yeah, it, it, like you and I have so many things that we can talk about when it comes to networking. I am very excited that we're finally doing the podcast. And some of it's like, you know, do's and don'ts. So like very like black and white, kind of like, here's, here's how you interact in the room. Here's how, what you don't say, here's, you know, how to, how to build those relationships. Mm-hmm. Um, another things are, you know, we were, we know we're gonna talk about some. Harder issues. Mm-hmm. Uh, neurodivergence mental health. Mental health. Like what do you do? Um, yeah, I do very different things when we're done with, we're both thought it's a thought be charge normal, but we do very different things. I thought my routine was normal afterward. but yeah, there's just, we just learned that there was so much that we, we had compiled and that, and that people were honestly wanting to know Yes. Like, how can I get better at this? Yes. Or how, what are different ways to think about it? Because I think that's one of the key things is you and I were not going in like, I need three deals by the end of the night. We're open, but that's also not gonna happen. So n you'd be surprised how many people think that that's Yeah. What they're rolling up to. But I, I think it helps that we're open. Yeah. I love that. And then people have been wanting notes on where should I go? We've been asked that so many times. Yeah. Do, is there a list somewhere? Where do I go? And the answer is no. There is no list. And also it changes constantly. So it depends on what you need. Mm-hmm. So you, you have to be active in the community, you have to go. And also in Mary's land of famous predictions, you know, I had predicted like a year ago that a lot of the best connections were going to start coming through private invite only spaces. We started one after getting results poorly on the first generation of our thing. And, and we have also since been invited into other private spaces. Yeah. So if that's happening, there's way more out there than we even know about./ That's it for today's episode of The Awkward Handshake. We record at Sasquatch Media Grounds in Vancouver, Washington. I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap Design and creator of PDX Spellbound, and I'm Mary. Founder of Sasquatch Media Grounds and Sensible. Woo. You'll find links to everything we mentioned, guests, resources, and ways to connect with us in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform. That's also where you'll get updates on where we're headed next, and when we're inviting listeners like you to join us for guided networking in person and online. Don't be passive. Click the links. Pick better rooms. We'll see you there.