Which Events Are Worth It?

Not all networking events are created equal — and going to the wrong ones can cost you far more than the ticket price.

In this episode of The Awkward Handshake, Megan Eckman and Mary Williams break down how they evaluate networking events after years of trial, error, and very honest post-event debriefs. From vibe checks and logistics to audience composition and follow-up potential, this conversation is about learning how to choose rooms intentionally instead of saying yes out of obligation or fear of missing out.

This episode covers:

• How to tell the difference between social events and business-driving rooms
• Why “good energy” alone doesn’t make an event worth your time
• The role of proximity, consistency, and repetition in choosing events
• When ticket price matters — and when it really doesn’t
• How audience makeup impacts whether conversations go anywhere
• Why some beautifully produced events still fail at connection
• Red flags that signal an event isn’t designed for real relationship-building
• How to decide when to try an event once, twice, or never again

You’ll also hear:

• How Megan and Mary decide which events get repeat attendance
• The difference between being welcomed and being tolerated in a room
• Why some events feel exhausting instead of expansive
• How to trust your instincts without letting avoidance run the show

This episode helps you stop guessing, stop people-pleasing, and start choosing rooms that support your goals — financially, socially, and emotionally.

Keep in touch!

Follow Megan Eckman

• Fat Cap Design
• PDX Spellbound

Follow Mary Williams

• Sasquatch Media Grounds
• Sensible Woo

Transcript

0:00

This is The Awkward Handshake, a podcast about networking business and what really happens in the room. We're unpacking the good, the bad, and the awkward, so you can build better connections and get paid. Let's get into it. Alright. Megan, we're talking about events being worth it. Yeah. I think this is the question we get asked the most. Yes. And, and people really want, they expect specific answers. Well, I think they want reassurance. Mm. I'm realizing that we did not talk about that before we hit record. And I'm realizing as we hit record, and I think people look for reassurance because. They're trying to make sure that they don't, in quotes, waste their time or Yeah. In some cases, waste your money.'cause we're gonna talk about free or paid events today. that is very honestly a real thing. And I completely respect the question around it, but because we get asked it so much, we were like, we have to put this in Premier week so that we don't have to make people wait before we talk about it. Yes. Yeah. And it's one of those where I guess we and I were doing the notes we're like, oh, are they gonna like this episode, episode or not? Because we're not rolling out a list of like. Here's our top five. Yes.'cause that is usually how the question comes to us is like, is there a list or is there a website where I can go to? Or do you have a list of things? And our answer is usually no. Well it's always no. And on a very practical reason, events honestly change so much and so frequently that it's pretty much darn near impossible to have some aggregated list. I mean, now maybe somebody, somebody else can take this idea out there, but maybe they can use some AI and like scrape the internet. And I mean, it would be a great prompt to just type into your chat GBT and ask it to find things. And of course, it's only as good as people make their information findable online and searchable. But I mean, that could be a way to hack that, the answer to that question. But it doesn't answer the question, is it worth it? Which is the immediate next question. Yeah. And so our answer is gonna be like a. You don't know until you try. Well, and we're gonna expand on this later. Like, it, it really depends on what what and who you're looking for. Yes. And so we, like you said, every every event is a unique experience. Yes. there's a different set of people, there's a different set of circumstances. It could be something in the air that day. And so we have a policy where we always do an event twice. Mm-hmm. Before we say, yes, this gets to stay, or No, this is off the list. It's not worth it for us. And I think it's important to explain why it's two times, and sometimes it's more than twice. But especially if the first time you go, you're like, uh, kind of barf. I don't know. We might not go back to it immediately right away. Right. But. You never know. Like it could be maybe I myself am in a funk that day or I'm coming off a high of like a really great event and it's honestly a little unfair to compare the next one to it, but you kind of can't help doing it. Or it could be that the combination of people in the room on that particular event because of that month or the season or whatever was maybe not the best example of them, or the best showing of them and like, or, or the events that move around from place to place. It's like the venue just really truly sucked. Like it's just so loud that Yeah. Turns out nobody had a good time, so maybe we should try them again and go back. But, I, I love that you pointed out, and I'm looking at her notes, that if the room is full of real estate agents or people in finance, unless that is who you need.'cause those are the people who exist on volume. So they're there all the time that it is not the right room. So we do pay attention to that. They exist on volume and they're in the industry that is very rare where everyone can be your client. Yeah. And so they will strike up a conversation. They're very good at it, and you can feel like you're gonna come out ahead. But they are, they are winning. You are the prize. Not that, I mean, the business person in me would argue that even real estate agents should create a niche. Like, are you selling sunset? Are you the luxury agents? Or, I know they should, but, but I think the reality for most, for most of those folks is they are looking for volume and they will honestly take as much volume as they can get. Yeah. And so, I think one of the focuses of the show today is you really need to know who you're looking for. Yes. In order to discern is this event worth it? Yeah, you and I also noticed. As usual, complimentary colors on the color wheel to each other. And you were like, everything in my notes for this episode is very like external facing, and mine was very internal because my, my way of coming into the episode was that events are only worth it when you yourself are emotionally, physically, and energetically regulated. And I was like, oh my god, Megan, I'm gonna sound like a broken record to anyone who listens. I am just always that person who's like, do you need to talk to your therapist? But, but everything that is successful that you experience really does start and end with you. And so when you're asking which events are worth it, you have to ask more questions of yourself, I think, which you and I are fortunate that we have found each other as yes friends, and we do process that question for ourselves. When we are like driving home from the event, which is yeah, another plug for carpooling.' cause it saves gas and it's good for the environment, but it's also like really useful because you have immediate time. You're not waiting till the next day to have coffee or you're not gonna get together next week for lunch. It's like happening right after you walk out of the event. Yeah. And I, I think you can see people act differently in different spaces and I completely agree with you that it does all start with you and there are some rooms where you might not feel how you want to feel. And this is gonna come up later in an episode, but I, we have very often heard women say, I do not feel as confident in a mixed gender room. Yes. But for like me, sometimes the confidence is more. Maybe it's an all startup room because they're just, I don't understand what they actually do. Like when they're like, I do this for the company. And you're like, I don't, I don't know. Oh, that's called like the, the bullshit introduction. Yeah. Where you get the corporate, corporate speak. Yes. And they're like, I make, I maximize widgets to their full potential for any like, well, what is it? And you look around and you're like, I am, everyone else is nodding. And, uh, I am not, now I don't feel confident, but, but I think sometimes, yeah, like how you show up and also how the room affects you. Can help you know if that's worth it or not. Yes. If you know, like you don't do well in very crowded, like, we walked into one room that had, what, 300, 350 people? Oh. If you know that event, I, yeah. One we do need to go back to, but I don't know if you know one to do. Oh, it's gonna be so hard. I have to like, I have to pump myself up so hard just to think about going back to that room. It was, you need your loops. I, I do need my loops. And it was also very loud. But I like, I think that by the time we get to these, this episode, I hope that whoever's sticking with us through the whole thing. We will walk away hearing us digest, which then helps you digest information for yourself too, but also to recognize that you are allowed to like what you like or need, what you need as an individual. Because we're narrow, spicy, we both have different tolerances for different things. And I think the reason like that big 300, 400 person room, no, I think there were like 700 people there. I mean, it was huge. It was huge, huge. It was a whole ballroom and there was no structure, which was another picking point of ours. But um, and everyone was heavily reliant on the cash bar, which is another point we'll talk about in a minute. I just remember standing in there, and I have a thing about like having physical, personal space. I don't like people. Touching me too much. Tism. And, and like, I mean, I can tolerate like enough of it. Like there's, you exist with other humans on the planet, but if you're like forced into a situation, which is probably why I don't live in New York City and ride the metro every day because I don't like being smushed into people and it makes me uncomfortable and I start to shut down. And, there's nothing wrong with knowing that about myself. And just because somebody else is like I love that room doesn't mean I have to love it too. No. And then that room is not worth it for you. Totally. So maybe, maybe I don't need to go back. I don't. No. Is this, we also was so, it was such an unproductive space. It was a very, yes. We found a man willing to talk about romantic books because his teenage daughter was reading them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that poor man, he was stuck with us for that night.'cause we weren't gonna let him go. No. And he didn't have anywhere else do it. I just remember people coming by and being like. Can you, can you swipe the QR code for my LinkedIn? And they did just move on and they were just going through collecting LinkedIn people. I never heard from them. Ever. Yeah. But they have like a whole bunch of nothing LinkedIn connections from that event. So I think using that as an example, so you know, we were gonna talk about like how do we, how do we decide which ones we're gonna go to? Yes. And you and I go about it very differently and I didn't realize how analytical I was until making these notes, but I kind of go like Seal team six, so you totally do. It's so perfect. I need like, so, so you'll send me a link and I will be like, I did that just yesterday. You did. And I immediately opened it. I will dig into either the person or the organization that's holding it. So I wanna know who are they. Do I have any connection to them? Who are the people that comment on their posts and like, I will dig into what they do. I will look at the, is there banter between the organizer and the people commenting? Or is this like, you know, hands off, like we just post it, but we don't like, interact with the peasantry. are there photos of past events? How many times have they held it? How often do they hold it? Are there photos? Because I'm like zooming into the photos and I'm like, okay, is everyone, is this like middle school dance or is this, people look pretty relaxed. You know what? You laugh. I'd be like, what outfit? Outfit. Trying to laugh out loud on the microphone. What outfits are they wearing? Right? Like, how classy is this? Or how queer is this? Mm-hmm. You know, like, there's so much information. I try to glean and the reason is I know who I want to meet and I start to figure out where will they be and would they come to one of these. Oh, that's so good. I think it's so interesting that what you are describing, what I am hearing as I like listen to you for the first time to really break it down is that you're looking for confirmation details, specific details that are not expressly written out in say copy on a sales page or copy on an events info page that's trying to say like, sign up RSVP, or buy a ticket. You're looking for corroborating evidence that supports that what they claim that the event will give you is in fact gonna be true, which helps you start digging into will this event be worth it? Yes. Because let's be honest, and we will have event organizers on this podcast later. Yeah. But we've been to a lot where they just made an event. There is no purpose, there's no, like, they, they don't have a specific audience in mind. You laughed when I told you that the middleman that I had to get my insurance from holds these gatherings. And he said, if you, you haven't attended one, tell me why. And I said, well, I don't know who I'm gonna meet. And he's like, well, it's people that I know. And I'm like, great, Corey, I don't know you. And he's like, well, maybe you're not adventurous enough to come out. I'm like, I, I still worth my time, Corey. The example he gave me was, well, so and so came and they made friends with my real estate agent friend. I'm like, everyone will make friends with your real estate agent friend. It's his job. So yes, I am trying. Generally the organizer does not know this information and doesn't really evaluate the event. They hold them, they move on. People showed up, gold stars all around. They're not actually trying to have an outcome happen besides buts in room. Yes. It's almost like people showing up somehow as a marker of that. That means a successful event. Yes. Which is so much the antithesis of how you and I run our private invite only Yeah. Things that we run. So we're like, no more bodies and rooms. Not equal sign, more benefit to you, but a curated room. Yes. I just, I, I love how analytical we can are because I'm so, if I'm gonna get out of the house, that's the truth. True. It's gonna be worth it. I'm just, I'm, I'm realizing in this moment how absolutely chaotic I am and how I'm like Desperate Housewives. I'm like, who's gonna be there? What event is it? What are they doing? Well, like it's, it is part of it, it's part of what I have always done, but it's now part of my job, right. Is to, yeah. Build these personas of, of people's, like customer base. And so I have personas of my clients and collaborators and things like that. And so it's me being able to say, okay, I want to meet Susie who is, you know, a video, a videographer. Is my videographer who's got two dogs, lives in central Portland. Is she gonna be at this thing? Yes or no? And if the answer is no, she's not coming out to a startup event in the, in the farthest reach of Vancouver. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, technically, if none of the people I want to meet are going to be there, honestly, if it weren't for you, I wouldn't be going. But for the last year we were like, let's just go to everything. There's some things you definitely don't go to. Don't go to a cheese festival if you know, oh, you know that all your people are vegan. Girl, we are going to the cheese festival. I mean, I know you can't have it, but I'll have yours. That's fine. And then we'll have a great time. I think that something you and I found by Dopa Mining, which I love that you say that, is that we found our outermost boundaries for each of ourselves and our businesses. Which is something I think you have to do, and it is an uncomfortable thing to do. Like I don't wanna diminish the discomfort that both of us have sat there on many on occasion trying to figure out like what makes something worth it to go to? Because if you're always only tiptoeing around just the bullseye and you never explore the outer edges, you don't really know that you're actually hitting the bullseye. When you find something, you think that's what really works for you. And like, yes, it can be scary. It can be scary to step in a room, like if you're a female founder and you only go to women only events and you step into a co-ed space or a more male dominated space. That can feel very uncomfortable. I mean, it was for us, the first time we realized that we were in one of those faces and we were like, everybody is so tall and this room, the height so weird. I get dark in here. and the vibe was different and everything, but we, it was such a big breakthrough moment to do that. and likewise, you know, if you just kind of always tend to hang out with people who are just like you, like I think there's a difference between being intentional the way you're describing, which is to find the rooms where your persona's like legit gonna go to so that you're not literally not wasting your time going to something that really doesn't matter. Or, are you just going to hang out with the people you know? Who mirror you back to you because that feels safer, but it's not really worth it. And I think the reason why people ask us this question is because they do that and then they're like, well, I'm just kind of hanging out with myself all the time. So, yes, and this, I didn't realize people did this, but I had a call with a woman, one of my coffee dates, who was looking to transition into a job like I do. So she's like, can I get on the call for 15 minutes? And I was like, sure. Like I did the same thing before. And she said, you know, oh, I've tried networking. She was getting into marketing freelance, but I can't find clients. I can't find anyone looking for somebody like me at networking events. And I said, well, which ones have you gone to?' cause I've been to a few, maybe I can point you in a good direction. And she said, well, I've been going to all of the a MA ones, the American Marketing Association. And I let that just sit for a minute. And then I was like, well, sweetie. And I was like, they're all marketers. And she's like, yeah, we're all Mark. And I was like, well, they don't need you. They're not your ERs, they're not your clients. It's like you're all sharks and there's no fish in that room unless the point is to have shark playtime. Exactly. But that wasn't what she wanted. Yes. That was not what, no, and it did. As soon as I mentioned that, you could see the light bulb go on and she went, oh, that makes sense. And it's like, but it was, it was a group that she was comfortable with. So when she read the event, yeah, that's her. It's for marketers. It's a get together, you know, it's a networking event for marketers. If you were going there to collaborate, that's very different because yeah, you might find somebody who does video or just social media and you need those people to build out your agency. Mm-hmm. Great. But she was looking for clients specifically, and it's like, well, your client isn't gonna go to a networking event for marketers. Mm-hmm. So true. But she hadn't reverse engineered. Mm-hmm. Who do I want and would they be here? Yeah, that is, I think that might be one of the hardest things to get through that comfortability factor, because anytime you are stretching to reach whatever goal you have for your business, you are going to, by default, have to become a little bit uncomfortable, probably a lot uncomfortable. But I love that story. I remember when you told me that happened and I was like, I'm so glad she talked to you because you probably at least planted a seed for her that has her thinking more smartly, moving forward about where she chooses to spend her time and her dollars and her energy, and who gets her attention. But yeah, I think, I think like, I mean, we'll continue to talk about this all season long, but the notion of like, is this social time for you? In which case hanging out in that room would be great. It would fill your cup perfect. You would get those interactions. You'd be able to like, oh, I can decompress and just like trade marketing stories with people and like, have a good time and like, yay. That's always really great. But if you're like, I, I'm in a season of I need to find client. Which is what we're sort of focusing on at the beginning of this season.'cause that's usually what people are asking us these questions for, because they're looking for people who will pay them. And that doesn't have to be everything in mar in in your, in your networking activities, but it's a big part of it. And, you know, the, the same person, same room thing. You and I have noticed when we've gone to those, we're like, yeah, I never walk out with, I don't even walk out with like, good collaboration leads. It's kind of disappointing. Correct. No, and and we can sense it. Yeah. You can smell it when you walk in the door. You can smell it when you want.'cause everyone knows everyone. Mm-hmm. And all the conversations are, I call them weather level. Oh, that's interesting. You think weather level.'cause I think it's like peacocking. Everyone's like, look what I did, look what I did. Like you're trying to impress, you know, like, because. Let's say it's the room full of marketers. They're probably the only group of people who are gonna understand if you rattle off a bunch of metrics or whatever, like the significance of that. Yeah. Like if you walk into a room of real estate agents, they might be like, oh, it sounds like you really know what you're talking about, but it's not gonna mean as much. And so kind of like that giant, giant event, it was just all it was supposed to be for startups and founders. Yeah. And, and it was so much peacocking and posturing and sort of like, you know, my horse is bigger than your horse kind of conversations. And I just remember thinking, not a one is picking up any like, really great connections in this room right now. No.'cause there're there's so much competing with each other. Yep. But the desperate housewives in me loves it. I'm not gonna lie, I should probably go just sat in the corner, watch people. That's what I should do next time. I'm just gonna sit in the corner and watch everyone. I can't help it. Maybe it's the more female oriented rooms where it's that weather level where, where, where everyone knows everyone. Oh, I, I won't name organization, but at that one they're like, how are the kids? And Oh, I heard about your husband doing this and it's been so long. It's very personal ketchups, isn't it? It's very ke, yeah. But it's surface level uhhuh. Like I don't wanna go too deep. And we don't, we, there was one we went to and nobody talked business. Oh, that was so weird. It was because then we would come out of the gate. It was a business. It was, I mean it was built as a business. It was built as a business in our defense. We did not crash. No, we did not crash like a social event and turn it into a business event. It was build as business networking, and we showed up. And nobody was talking about business. But then they would ask you, oh, who are you?'cause they don't know us. Yeah. And we would talk about our businesses and they looked at us like each of us had three heads and it was the weirdest feeling. And then we would be like, what do you do?'cause I don't know who you are. And then it would be like, oh, I guess I'll, I guess I'll tell you.'cause you don't know that I, because they live on the street and have two kids who go to this school and'cause they all know each other. Yes. It was a lot of people who just like see each other all the time. I'm sorry I can't stop thinking about the huge startup founder event. Yeah. Because, um, well I know you wanted to talk about cash bars. Yeah.'cause that one had that It's on our notes next and like, it's just, it's such a point for me. Because that was early when we were starting to do this. Yes, it was. And we had other people who wanted to come along and let's make this a girls' night kind of thing. And we did. And we went and like whatever. But everyone was clinging to their plastic cups of sponsored beverage. Yep. They had beer sponsors and wine sponsors. And I think there was some mixed drink like liquor sponsors and stuff, which is fine. I, I am not knocking happy hour events or anything, but when I see events where people are so dependent on, I've gotta stop at the cash bar or the open bar first to get my drink before I can legitimately engage, I'm always like, what's going on there? I know I'm not alone in this, and this is very much like where my therapy comes into the business space. But in my private life have, you know. Survived seeing a ex-partner through serious alcoholism. And I know the signs of things. So when I see someone who is really dependent on some kind of substance or if I'm at an event and I can tell that they're high.'cause here weed is legal. And so you see people and they will literally take like a bag of gummies before they go into an event. I'm always like, what's going on there? And I'm like, first of all, I'm never gonna work with you and I'm certainly not gonna have a good conversation with you in this moment because you're not sober. So you are not in a sober frame of mind to make a decision. And when the going gets tough, which is gonna do in any kind of work that we would do, and mostly never dramatically, but like we're working together 'cause we gotta solve a problem. So what are you going to do when a little bit of friction shows up? Not dramatic friction, but just any kind of friction. Are you gonna have to take a bag of gummies or go hit the bar in order to get through the day, in which case this is a problem. And so I look for things like that. And so when we walk into events and it's bar heavy, like that one event was, yeah, it's always like the, the red flags go up and I'm like, Hmm, this is interesting. Every dude every was clinging to his solo cup, whatever. And they were, I mean, they literally looked like they were clinging to it. And I frequently clinging to coffee cups and tea cups as like just a neurodivergent sort of anchor point. But that was a different kind of clinging. I think it's probably the worst one that I've seen so far. Yeah. Easily. But it's amazing how many of these events they kind of sell it on. Like we have a wine sponsor, there will be drinks. Yeah. Drink Sponsors are huge right now. Yeah. And I mean, some of them are amazing. They're great. I love 'em. Right. But when we went to the hot sauce panel mm-hmm. They had food and I was like, this is like, I would rather have, I was like, like, thank you for the bananas. Like they had on bananas and they had taquitos and they had fresh salsa and like, it was like, yes, this is the best ever. I think that's, you make some very good points because we do know people who, and we're gonna talk about it later in the season about, what do you need to do to be able to get through this? Because some people, have, have other diagnoses. I will be sharing all the pie, anxiety tips and cheek that you found, the wildly humorous. I think your points are accurate about like, could you be trusted in a situation, or are you in the right space to be. Trying to make business deals like from, from both ends. Like the person you're talking to, but also you yourself. Yeah. It's less the notion of on a personal level, like we all need, whatever it is we need to help us grow and, help our mental health and whatever. And we're gonna talk about mental health topics through the month of May too, because it is really important. When you're showing up for your clients or your customers, if they meet you in one state and then you're completely different at a different point and you're wondering like. Why am I not having any continuity? Like maybe you do set up coffee chats, but you were really tipsy. And when you're tipsy you are full of charisma and you are the flirt queen and everybody thinks that they are a million bucks around you. But then they get on that call with your, you meet you for coffee a week later and you're not in that state and you're honestly like in need of working on your social skills and they meet somebody totally different. Like that's where you start to get a mismatch. And those are unfortunately the situations where you can't recover them as easily. Like you have to rebuild the trust again. And it's really hard to do it at that point. And I don't know that people who immediately jump to the bar understand that. and that the drinks are there just to help socially lubricate to a certain extent. But I would like go back to our premier episode. My hot take was like, maybe you need to work on social skills and to work on them sober. And to be able to do that sober is honestly like one of the most powerful things you can do. It's one of the most like high leadership things you can do. And I don't know, I would love to see more people do it, which is crazy thing to say in a craft beer town, well here's my hot take.'cause as you were talking about, the question is why is it even there? Yes. And does it make the event worth it, right? No. Doesn't matter to like, to me. Yeah. Ooh, you have it. But I think we used to watch this show called The Supervisors It was two comedians in, in England. And they would go do historic, they would go back to different eras and they would eat and drink all the food at that time. And then they would have like doctor checkups like supersize me. And they did the seventies sixties and seventies. And they held a dinner party and every person who came to the dinner party brought a bottle of hard liquor and there was a recipe for these parties. And you would, they drank all the bottles by the end. And I do kind of wonder if the drinking at a networking event is a mad men hangover. Oh my God. That's an amazing point to make.'cause it's, it's men doing business. And you would've come from this era where like you're drinking at work, you're drinking right after work. And so the three martini lunch. Yeah. And so it does kind of make sense that it says hangover of businesses being done in quotes. So this will be here. For you. Oh my God, you're bringing back so many memories of, in my entertainment career. I remember sitting in people's offices at Disney and like everybody had a mini fridge, and if it was late enough in the day, they'd be like, do you wanna have a beer while we have the meeting? And I was always like, what? Are you kidding me? And I'd come from such an academic world as a librarian, that was like my pearls, you know? And, and then it just became so normal where it was like, honestly, really normal to go have lunch meetings and everyone would order a cocktail and you just wouldn't think twice about it. And, you know, that's unique to the entertainment industry to a certain extent. But, but it is a very, Mad Men era esque thing to do. Yes. Because I am also big in like the cycling industry and a lot of my clients to start, were in that and for women's cyclists. And so you don't drink when you are a competing athlete. Yeah. And so when they have events, they would have non-alcoholic beer or kombucha or things like that, uhhuh. And it's surprising then to me, so again, it's knowing your audience. So I think it speaks to who they believe their audience is. And so again, you could use that as a clue if it's got this big cash bar is probably gonna be a lot of men coming. This is so fascinating. I never would've thought that this is what would come out of our conversation. But yeah, I think like when you're asking is it worth, is event worth it? Your, to your question, I'm a great example of this. I look at that and I ask myself, is this worth it? It's so centered around a heavily happy hour structure. And, anything if you find that comforting, maybe it is an event that helps you get comfortable going out and doing things, and in which case that does work for you but you have to kind of know what you're getting into. Well, we also tested different times of the day. Yes. So we have done. Morning. Mm-hmm. Like before, work in quotes, events before 9:00 AM Yeah. Mm-hmm. So we've done those. We've done, like our own event is 10 to noon. Mm-hmm. Specifically mm-hmm. For who the audience is. Yep. We've gone to lunchtime ones, we've gone to lunchtime ones, and then after hours. And again, it, it kind of depends. It's, it's you knowing your client Right. Or who you want to meet. Yeah. So the before hours tend to be, I have a normal job, but I will make time Yeah. To do this or they work for themselves typically. after hours are almost exclusively, that seems to be like, I've got a nine to five. It it is more heavy. It's more heavy. Yeah. Much more heavy. But yeah, you and I discovered the middle of the day. Yeah, middle of the day. Or even like late morning if they're like the b and i groups that start at like six in the morning, bless. But I can't. But the ones that start at the butt crack of dawn. Yeah. Like that is they've gotta get to a, an office, they usually have to get to an office or they have a business in such a way where they literally can't take time out during the day to do things. You and I because of the clientele we work with and the collaborators that we tend to collaborate with. we started noticing that, wait a minute, these people are free during the day. You don't have a nine to five, which means, well, they make their schedule, they make their own schedule, so not free. Yeah. But you make your own schedule so you can prioritize what you want and, that means that you can make a priority for this to do a business development gathering. because you and I don't work with people who have, or it's their side hustle and they have a nine to five. yeah. I think at this point, you and I have both agreed, like we tend to prefer those sort of morning breakfast ones over the happy hour ones in the day. but sometimes like the only option is like, everyone happens to be gathering at that one. That's like after hours. We go to after hours. Yeah. We've done it all. Yes. Yes. And we do it twice. We do. the other thing that you and I also noticed to make things worth it, we noticed usually, but not always that paid or ticketed events. Um, even if you just have to RSVP, they also weed out people that don't usually put enough skin in the game. But you were reminded me before we hit record that we have also been to paid events that were also terrible. So you, you know, just because it's paid doesn't necessarily mean it's better. No. But it does typically weed out the, like the large volume industries like insurance, sales, finance, investor things, and real estate agents. Not always, but usually. And that's just because you and I really don't work with them. I know there's people who do. So not knocking it. But then you would know, I should go to like, good for you. You're gonna hit up all the free events, not gonna cost you hardly anything. Yes, yes. And if there's food, they will be there. Yes. Food will always bring people there. Food and drink. Yeah. I mean, we offer food and drink, but it's coffee and pastry. Maybe I should be putting out a bottle of Jamison next to the coffee or Bailey's or something. yeah, we also talked a bit about, co-ed rooms. I'm with you. I personally don't find women only events to be as useful. A lot of times 'cause they get stuck in sisterhood and vibes and the people I work with tend to invest higher ticket amounts of money. it's usually not in the hobby space, not knocking hobby businesses.'cause I used to have quite a few in my old mastermind and these women made bank, it was amazing. but for the media studio, usually they have people where like they have a full marketing plan and yeah, they've budgeted money and all that. It's your clientele now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, it's a new clientele. So, so I do find the co-ed rooms just have more access to more of those people, which I appreciate. But I love that you pointed out before we get into our first segment. I love that you pointed out that I was thinking along the lines of like, how much content can I get out of this? Like, can I make social posts, can I post proof of life? Like does the event allow me to do that? And sometimes that makes the event worth it so that you can. really heat up your presence and your visibility. And that actually sometimes is worth it to go to the 500 plus person room to be like, look at all these people and I'm in it, you know? And, and, and you did that? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I posted the heck out of the, I was like, if this is the only thing I can do here. but yeah, you, you and I agreed that one of the top things is location, location, location. Is there a benefit to traveling to that location for you? Is it worth the effort? and this is really to help you decide if, how to make choices. into one activity or event over another? And location actually is a huge determining factor. For that, like you were saying, like way on the outer reaches of Vancouver, maybe not, you know, it, like who's, who's gonna be there? for certain people the answer is yes. for us it just happens to be No. I am, I am wondering what your thoughts are deeper so everyone else knows what I hear from you regularly about location. I mean, at this point we have been to almost every coworking space in Portland. It feels like, it feels like, I know we're missing a few, but like, at least the major ones that host events. Yeah. So, you know, when we are choosing location, we're, we're doing it by Yeah. Our, do we think other people are gonna show up to this? And. Who is on the guest list, but also like we use it for other excuses. And I, I know you're gonna talk about you are always scoping things out for future, events. for me, I, I think it's the A-D-H-D-I just wanna know like, how everything works. And like, it's, it's another place to cross off the map. We, we've been to so many coffee shops that I've never been to. We've done some restaurants, I've been in like the headquarters of Rumple. We were in hot Mama's salsa kitchen kitchen. That was so cool. Like it, I think if you can go about some of it with curiosity, you get access to places. Sometimes that, that nobody else is Yes. Getting access to or even access to it at like odd hours. Yeah. cause this is where you and I totally match on location. We're just, we're nosy and we're curious and it's just who we are. It's probably why we're friends. Yeah. But like we have done with the e-commerce group here, which we do love going to, they're, they're coffee mornings. like the next one coming up this January is at Flock again, um, in the ground floor of the Ritz Carlton in downtown Portland. To the public flock does not open until 11:00 AM and we're in there at like, what, eight 30 in the morning? Yeah. And one of the investors hosts a space. the restaurant stalls that are in there usually have staff that are showing up and they're starting to like prepare for the day, but you're there before hours and it's really cool to be in a space that's like off hour, at least it is for me. Yeah. I love it. And kinda like when wonder Love hosts some of their breakfasts. And so that's a beautiful event space down in the warehouse district and. we've run all over Wonder Love completely uncrowded. Yeah. They have been there when it is in normal operating hours and like that place is boozy, but when it's just the coffee stuff, like we have gotten so much good like B-roll content and whatnot because we can. at least for me because, you know, I've been looking for event venues for all kinds of stuff for the coming year. It's been fun to go in there and, you know, get a chance to exist in the space and feel it and think what could happen in here? What, what could I do in here? get to meet the owners or the investors or whoever runs the place. I think that's. Probably one of the coolest things about location. Yeah. Well, and it gives you a total leg up when you contact them again. Yes. To be like, oh, we already chatted. Yes, you already showed me around. Yes. I was the one who thanked you for Uhhuh. You always go and thank the host and so they, they remember that the good little Asian girl in me is like, where's the host? but it does pay off and it is amazing how many people don't talk to the host. Yeah. because they see them as a not client. No, but that actually makes the location worth it. okay. Middle of last year, I co-hosted this event. The behind the scenes was absolutely chaotic a mess, but on the front end, everyone had an amazing time. Yes. And we did a happy hour after the event was done and considerably less people traveled to the Happy Hour location. But we did it at Wonder Love, and it was all because we had gone to these coffees and it got to know one of the co-owners, and I shot him an email, sent it out, and was like, Hey, I've got this group coming, like, what do we need to do? And he's like, do you want me just to like put out a reserve sign on the top or like, it was so easy. Yep. and then he gave me the heads up and was like, you know, we have this, group coming at this time, so as long as you like, grab your spot by whatever time, like you'll be fine. and that was fantastic and I, I don't know that people always think about that. When they're thinking about their networking events, that what you get out of it is like direct access Yeah. To resources. Yep. That you can't get any other way. No, and I'm always like, like Pokemon. Right. You gotta like collect them all. And so you're like in additional, the people that I meet where I'm like, oh, now I have an accountant and a, a fundraising strategist and, and this you're kind of also like, I now know a coffee place that I could meet people 'cause I really liked it. Or Oh, I, yeah, I, I know this coworking space and I really liked that room and so when I hold a workshop, I might wanna do it at this coworking space. And I chatted with the person and was able to like learn a little bit more. I'm really curious on your take,' cause we're talking about a lot of physical events, but just because we do physical events doesn't mean we don't do virtual ones. And when we tallied up our numbers for our first episode, you and I both had a fair amount of virtual events that we went to. And so like, I'm gonna count Zoom rooms as a location, location, location, it counts. And I'm wondering what your take is on, does it make an event worth it because it's on Zoom and you can just sort of like roll into the computer screen pants optional, like, please wear pants. But like what, what's your feeling on it? Because um, I know mine has shifted over time. So I think I had like probably 10 last year that I, that I rolled into, uh. In those circumstances, it all comes down to the moderator. And I would say that just like with physical location hosts, most do not know how to moderate a room in a way that makes people feel seen and supported and engaged and actually get stuff out of it. I even attended a really big, like Christmas party one, and the, the point was not to talk business, but also like you would get into some breakout rooms and you would be like. I mean, I honestly sometimes pretended a FedEx man had come, so I could just like leave. You did not. Oh my God, you did not. Yeah, I did. I would be like, oh no, I have to go to the door. And then I would like mute and then exit's. D it's diabolical. Why haven't I thought of doing that?' cause it's just like, you suddenly find yourself in this room and you know, like, like in real life you can be like, oh, I see Judy. I gotta go talk to Judy. You know? Mm-hmm. You can leave The zoom rooms are harder Yeah. To, to leave. But like to me, I haven't found somebody who, like, again, I think they just wanted, like, they just wanted pictures on the, on the screen. Yeah. But the intention was maybe, was maybe there to help people connect, but they thought if I just get people together, they'll just connect. No. And we learned that, that it doesn't work. Yeah. I think facilitation is a, in moderation, moderating skills are, um, something that really has to be learned. And I actually think you have to put up more energy being in a Zoom room than you do in person, because there's only so many ways you can scramble up a Zoom location. And so in order to help people connect, and it's not just one person like moderating the room and talking at everyone or pulling out only the extroverts who are willing to step forward in front of all those people. You throw people into breakout rooms and once you're in the breakout room, like you're kind of there. And I have had people like accidentally drop off calls or just flat out leave. Like I've seen that so many times. Or as soon as they say Zoom breakouts, like half the room leaves. That happened with one of my year end events that, you know, I went to it was kind of a hybrid room. It was a sales event because she was trying to sell memberships for the coming year. But she ran a live networking on top of it so you could get a feel for doing that in her membership.' cause it was a referral community. the first part was her explaining things and welcoming people, which was very useful. And then she had, some of her like flashier big name people who were in her. Community, come on and talk about what they had, been doing through the referrals. And then it was time for the breakout rooms and as soon as she said, are we ready? You saw like the names just mass exodus out of the room. And it was so dramatic that she was like, okay, hold on a minute. Because her assistant helping her had to literally regenerate the breakout rooms. And if you've ever done this, which I have you, if it happens to that degree and Everyone's already set up to go into the breakout room. Oh. And then you end up with this like weird amalgamation of like one person in a room. One person in a room. Yeah. So she had to regenerate all the rooms, which is not hard, but it does take a moment. And I knew as somebody who has facilitated, I was like, well, this is not good, is not good. But the people who stuck around were great. And I met some amazing people who put me in touch with even more amazing people. Yeah. As a result of that one event. but I do think that zoom rooms are harder. Does it make it worth it? I don't know. I think it depends on what kind of energy you have at the moment. Yeah. Honestly, like that's how I think about Zoom now is do I have the energy for this? Because I think you have to be more on. Yeah. I would completely agree there. I have also stepped into the power that I don't have to say the whole time. Which is very hard to do. Yeah. I used to just be like, I'm here. We are stuck. We are prisoners until the end. And you know, if you do the FedEx, oh, no. And then I would hop into another room. Because it was I don't owe them anything. I was not going to get any, and I don't mean it to be transactional, but it's like, I'm not getting anything out of this room. I'm going to take my agency and go to another breakout room. And try there. Yeah. Because that was allowed in this, in this instance, but I think so many of them, once the moderator is gone, and it's almost like just the kids. Especially sometimes the, like, the prompt goes away and then you're all just like, oh hi. Who wants to start? mm-hmm. That's why you always have to give people a rule. there's really simple things whoever has the shortest hair is gonna go first. Here you go. you know, usually gets people to kind of chuckle. Yes. And it saves you at least 30 seconds of Well, like, you've gotta give people rules. Yeah. And some guidelines. Otherwise they're like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And it's just easier in an in-person event to negotiate those between you directly without needing a moderator to do it. Yeah. And I think that's why Zoom has actually gotten, I think, harder, I think too when it's, when it's a physical place, put the outfit on Yes. To go. I mean, I can have at the top at home, but I'm still in my setting. Yes. But like, have to go out. Yes. I've, I've known somebody for quite some time and during COVID. However, everybody was home. There was one time she told this group that we all all used to meet regularly, peer Mastermind. And she said that she would get fully dressed and she always like wore a business suit and she even put on the heels and everything to sit at her desk. And we were all like, what? Because here I was literally sitting in pajama pants, like, this is the best day of my life. I wore pajama pants. I was like, business on top, party on the bottom. And she was like, no. Her, her frame of mind Yep. Does not get where it needs to be unless she puts on the full outfit. Yep. And I loved that because like you do feel different when you put yourself together. You show up differently. Yeah. Our next one is the free versus paid to touch on that again, I mean, know we talked about it quite a bit already, but is there anything else that you would add to noticing differences between free events versus paid events? Like is it worth the cost?'cause you and I both know that money is very emotional paying for things brings up a lot of feelings. and especially if you are still in this space of well, I don't know if it's worth it. And you don't know, really know how to measure that for yourself yet. Like, I know you feel Portland and Vancouver's a little bit of an oddball. It might be, I haven't really networked before when I was in the Bay. Like I didn't really have to network in the same way. No. I mean, I'd be at a craft fair and somebody worked for Google would come up and be like, I want you to come to the office. I have a project Charmed Life. I know that doesn't happen here. Um, I think Portland in, in Vancouver by extension kind of prides itself on, on being, let's be honest.'cause we both know it. It's a little cheap. It's a little, we do it ourselves. It's, it's such a kind word. I think people are kind of like Andy Establishment almost. Yes. And so, yes, there are a ton of free events and a lot of them have been very good. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we have, I've paid, I think the most I've paid is like 30 to go to something. And I was sorely disappointed and they were then trying to sell other things while there, and I'm like, oh good. All of my money just went into your mm-hmm. Pockets. Um. So I, I think if you're worried about is it worth it or not, start free. Yes. Like there's nothing wrong with it. And then just make some notes. did I find the people I wanted to? Did I not? And then you can kind of work up to like, maybe once a month, I'll try that $5. Sometimes there's like an arbitrary price mm-hmm. That just kind of says, if you don't show up, we keep your money. The $5 doesn't really get to any, it's just, it's a token. It's a token of commitment. There you go. Mm-hmm. Yep. I'm about to start the podcaster made up in here again. And so my model has been like, no, there will be a token. There used to be a very large podcaster made up in Portland, but it was always free and it was always open. Because space is limited in here. I'm like, no, I kind of need you to like declare am I coming? Yeah. And $5 is a throwaway amount for most people. So if you don't make it traffic's bad. He doesn't feel like it anymore. It's like okay. Like that's fine. Yeah. But, at least it gets you thinking before you sign up or saying you wanna go like, am I committing to this or not? Yep. yeah, I don't mind the cost so much. I feel like everything has a cost because free is still a price. Yep. And you pay for things differently when they're free. I think that, as you experiment and go around, you figure out in what ways you get what you pay for. Like, you and I went to, but I think it was like two years ago, wasn't it? We went to that luncheon that was paid. she had like one ticket left and you were like, she has one ticket left. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we went and like, it was, that was the most expensive one I paid for Uhhuh. And it was, it was good. and the people we met in the moment was nice, but then over time, the quality of those connections turned out to be more of the like sisterhood and vibes and not necessarily like, oh, you guys actually really do this. It was like, I had a really nice luncheon day and I felt fancy, and we all had great Instagram content. Holy crap. Did we have good Instagram content? Because she knew what she was doing. She knew the person that she wanted. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. that was very interesting. So like sometimes I, well not sometimes, I think all the time it's always a mixed bag. Yeah. And that's kind of the way it rolls. Yeah. And in some, I could see some locations where I could see, like in, in the Bay, I could see LA where Oh, LA only the paid ones would be Yes. The ones to go to. In la I went to a lot of, a lot of paid events on purpose because you put your money where your mouth is. Yep. And everyone's got a dream and a penny in their pocket in LA but only a penny. and so if you have to actually pay like a $20 ticket to be at something, it does change who shows up. But then also the more private member spaces are really important. So as president of the University of a Michigan Alumni Association chapter in la, which is a massive chapter, there's like 40,000 alumni in that LA Basin. Those events were, closed to the public. if you were an alumni member, sometimes like you got to go for free if you were just an alum, but you didn't belong to the association. Sometimes there's like a nominal fee, like a $15 fee all that money's going into a scholarship fund or whatever. that was a very curated space and I think that might've been my first introduction to that level of curated spaces. But because of my library career. And having a name like Disney behind me, I went to a lot of conferences and I think that was where I started to clue in super early in my career path that conferences do attract a much higher caliber of connection. It is not magic, but because you have to pay for the ticket and you have to pay for travel. and then here's, here's the the surprise, surprise. You've gotta pack your bags. You gotta set aside the time, you gotta get on a plane and you gotta go to the place. And people who can survive their executive functioning and do that are just a different breed of people and I love them for it. And so for me, conferences are always sort of the creme de la creme of doing networking. Well, I think that kind of touches on something really good, which is networking is not just. Quote unquote, networking event as it is billed. Yes. Correct. Correct. That alumni get togethers your mm-hmm. Like events at the library. Yes. Like everything, everything is be, I mean, everything is networking. Yes. You put two people in a room, you got networking, you know? I think all this comes down to identifying factors that matter for you personally.'cause every person's different. And I think that was the hardest part for putting our notes together for this episode. Is that when you're deciding is it worth it? It's like we were like, eh, I don't know. Like, what, what are your factors? cause there's no one size fits all. you had a pretty good take on this. and it kind of goes back to that story of the person with the American Marketing Association. Yeah. I think here again, was where we were like two sides of the same coin or basically like both sides of making a connection. Mm-hmm. And mine was, have you figured out who you want to meet? Mm-hmm. Like how, well, how well do you know them? you know, and you and I had this broad range of people we wanted to meet and that's why we went to a broad range of things. Mm-hmm. Also, we're just curious and we're like, yeah, this sounds great. Let's go. Let's hop in the car and let's go do that tonight because we don't have kids. I just wanna see all the tea get poured in real time. We were like, I was at it when it happened. Yep. I think it's, it's getting very clear and making you know, lists. And then, I don't know one's actually going to do this, but I would advocate you make a list of who do I want to meet, who do I wanna connect with, not just a client. Because when I used to run freelancers union here, it was like everyone was like, I just need a client. I'm like, great. Your client's not in this room.'cause you're all freelancers. And nobody's gonna refer you because they don't know you. Yeah. So don't say, do you have a friend who know who wants X?'cause they don't know you yet. Yeah. So is it somebody who, like, do you wanna get in a publication? Maybe it's somebody, then maybe somebody who, you know, is it somebody who knows about this magazine that would be a great person? Is it somebody who works at a radio station? Is it somebody who works? Like let it be weird and wild and the more open. Mm-hmm. I think you are to like. The universe just sending, I mean the universe is so cheeky. Like if you let it, it'll send you the weirdest people. Yes. And it'll be like filling out your bingo card. So maybe it's making a bingo card. Instead of personas make a bingo card. Who do you wanna be? That's such a great idea. Fill in a bingo card and then you can like put little stickers on it as you find like the weirdest things you can possibly hear or find or qualities you're really, really looking for. Yes. But it's gonna make you be specific about those qualities. Yes. Oh, I love your hot take. That is so good. It just came to me so good. like you and I have been talking about like needing to seek out the the right membership or the right association, and that is such a handy way of identifying those factors that make sense to you personally. you're right, we are like two sides of the same coin.'cause yours is very practical and mine is as usual, very therapeutic because I'm like, how well do you know yourself? I feel like on the other side of connection is figuring out, who you would introduce yourself to. And that naturally leads you to think about what matters to you. we're gonna have Nedra on here pretty soon who leads a group called Quiet Networking, and it's specifically for introverts. And it's being really honest about who you are and not pretending that you're something that you're not. And learning to give yourself permission to be that, helps you find the right rooms to be in. Like if you are struggling to. Find a way to relate to people in a way that feels good to you, but is still also socially acceptable and allows the other person to also participate in the interaction with you. maybe it's something you work on with your therapist, or if you're having these executive functioning problems and you're like, you can't manage your schedule or your time or how to get across town, it's like maybe you need to work with your A DHD specialist and figure that out, you know? But like, if you don't figure those things out in this context, how the hell are you gonna do it with a pain client? Which is why when we hear that question like, is it worth it for me to go ' cause somebody's looking for paying clients. Now I just wanna dig down and find out what do you need to work on? and it can't be because somebody told you or that you or I on this podcast and we're giving out lists of like, these are the 10 checklist things that you have to do. It's like, no, it's gonna be different for you. Yours are so different. For mine, we are gonna like. People are gonna know so much about how we process our things. I know because you are, you and I are so different. Even our anxiety responses are so different. And that night that you were like, I forgot to lie on the floor and discharge my energy, and I got your text message and I was sitting on the sofa watching Stranger Things and I looked at my watch like, what? How long has it been since you? I'm like, girl, I'm like into dessert already. I know I forgot to lay. I told my therapist what I do, and she's like, that's exactly what you need to do. You need to lie on the floor like a bad meme. Just like eat the carpet and then like just complain about everything. And then you gotta get up and you have to have like a five minute dance party as energetically as possible. Then you will actually like go to bed that night. That is so funny. I need to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. And then I need to make sure I have nourished myself because I am, I will forget to eat. And if I didn't eat before I went out, which frequently happens, I need to make sure I eat when I go home. and then I need to do like my self-care routines. Like, all of my like face oils and wash my hair and like, you know, and just mm-hmm. Rhythmic routines that help me start to wind down. the cats usually need attention because they're adorable. You've been gone. I've been gone for two hours. Dare you. How dare me. But yeah, I think like these, those were our hot takes for the episode and they really, they really, to me they help. You investigate for yourself if you've made the effort to find out if you yourself, are also worth someone else investing their time and energy and meeting you back. this is not a one way street. No. I think like When you're asking is it worth it? It's like, well, if I determine that it is worth it and I go, is it also worth it for the other people on the other side when I show up that they're like, wow, that was really worth it too. this is not an extractive thing. You have to bring something to the table. Yes. Because we have both now met people we will not name names who go to dozens Yes. Of networking events. Like every day they're at one and yet they get nothing. Mm-hmm. Because you know everybody, you wouldn't touch 'em with a 10 foot pole. Yeah. But everybody knows them. Everybody knows them, but not in the good way, but nothing's really happening. No. And people start to notice. Yeah. And they avoid you. So is it worth it to go to the event is really like, am I bringing things that make it worth it for everyone else too?'cause it is collective. Yeah. So if everybody came together and brought something that was worth it, when that does happen and that's magic. Yeah. Those are the events where we're like, yeah, that's a good community. That was amazing. I love it. I wish they were all like that. And unfortunately they're not. But they do exist. Yes. You have to find them and you have to get out of the house to do it. Yeah. That's it for today's episode of The Awkward Handshake. We record at Sasquatch Media Grounds in Vancouver, Washington. I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap Design and creator of PDX Spellbound, and I'm Mary, founder of Sasquatch Media Grounds and Sensible Woo. You'll find links to everything we mentioned, guests, resources, and ways to connect with us in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform. That's also where you'll get updates on where we're headed next, and when we're inviting listeners like you to join us for guided networking in person and online. Don't be passive. Click the links. Pick better rooms. We'll see you there.