Who Can Give Me Money? (And How Long Until I Get Paid?)

If you’ve ever walked into a networking event with the question “Who here can give me money?” quietly screaming in your head — this episode is for you.

In Episode 3 of The Awkward Handshake, Megan Eckman and Mary Williams take on one of the most loaded questions in business: how long it really takes to get paid through networking — and why trying to shortcut that timeline usually backfires.

This conversation dismantles the fantasy that deals are made in the room and reframes networking as what it actually is: the front end of a much longer relationship and decision-making process.

This episode covers:

• Why networking rooms are not sales floors — and never were
• The difference between leads, discovery calls, and actual sales
• Why most people are trying to solve a business development problem in the wrong space
• How many conversations it realistically takes before money changes hands
• Why “hot,” “warm,” and “cold” leads still matter more than ever
• How economic conditions quietly shape decision timelines
• Why desperation is felt immediately — even when it’s unspoken
• How treating people like walking ATMs destroys trust

You’ll also hear:

• Why saying “yes” at an event often turns into a “no” later
• How networking helps you read the economy in real time
• Why follow-up is leadership, not pestering
• How boundaries show up in emails, timing, and tone
• Why some rooms feel exhausting — and others feel expansive
• The difference between peacocking and actual traction

At its core, this episode makes one thing clear: networking isn’t about extracting value. It’s about building context, trust, and enough shared understanding for a real decision to happen later.

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Transcript

0:00

This is The Awkward Handshake, a podcast about networking business and what really happens in the room. We're unpacking the good, the bad, and the awkward, so you can build better connections and get paid. Let's get into it. Who can give me money? How long until I get paid? Woo. Big questions. Big question. Oh, money. It creates so much stress. I always say that the fastest path to cash is definitely conversation, but, you cannot sell people in a networking room, as I say, like you're hawking a sham Wow. On an infomercial. I hate it when people are trying to sell their sham wows. That doesn't work. And I used to work for an infomercial company. And it was fascinating working for that company. So now everything's like, are you just trying to hawk something like an infomercial? But, I think people go to events and I just wanna say, please don't do that. because this question stalks us in the background, who can give me money? How long can I get paid? And while not everybody goes to networking events just for this purpose, you can't tell me that you walk into a networking room. And that thought is not just the thought bubble over like 90% of the heads in that room. Oh yeah. And that's not to shame if it is.'cause it's in the back of all of our heads, if not the front. It's somewhere. Yes. Because why else are you in business? Yes. Why are we You don't want money. Yeah. Why did you start a business? I think too, it's like even if, if someone does say yes, let's, let's say ya sham wowed them and they went, oh my God, that sounds great. Here's my card. Can we talk? or if you did it in a more engaged and natural and authentic way and somebody said yes. this sounds great. Let's talk. Yes, I just want everybody to know, like, expect that to become a no. The next time you meet, it happens a lot. Because those rooms, you get into a persona a role. You want to be gracious. You want to be like, oh my God, this sounds so amazing. Or maybe you genuinely meant it. But once cards are on the table, once like money is involved, it's very quickly for those conversations that you thought were gonna be like, oh, I hit it outta the ballpark with this. Oh my God, I'm gonna get a five figure deal. Like, ah, just 'cause they said yes at a networking event, it does not mean like, start looking at. A cart to purchase. You know, like don't, like a new wardrobe items yet. Shattering my illusions we were joking before as to like which one of us was gonna be the more pessimistic in these episodes. Like, everyone hates me all. Like I know this isn't how it works. I'm so sorry you have a magic number.'cause you are definitely the more pragmatic of the two of us when it comes to this. But you have a magic number. How many conversations do you notice it takes before you get a discovery call? I've clocked it at about three, so this is, I generally have to see somebody at a networking event twice. The first time we meet, maybe exchange cards, somebody doesn't follow up, I'll see them again and they'll be like, oh yeah. Let's do something. Mm-hmm. It typically is then I don't quite have everything. Let's do a coffee chat and then I will get on the call with you as a discovery call. And some people have much shorter, but I have found, like, I've not seen somebody go networking discovery call, like full in, like it's rare. It's rare. I don't know that I would say I've never seen it, but they definitely feel like the exceptions to the norm. I think they might have a very easy thing to, to sell. Yes. Like, like like plug and play. Yes. Yeah. And like I wanna throw like. Videographers, but I feel like people don't understand enough about videographers. They're like, I need a videographer. And you're like, wonderful. You breathe and you're a videographer. You're perfect. I think every video, every videographer I know. I know. That disagrees so hard with this right now. No, but, but from the client's view, it looks like we don't know the difference. Ah, so when you're watching other people, what you see is not always what the reality is for the service provider or the product seller? No, and generally we have been to events where we have seen somebody walk out of it and go, I just made all these connections. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna get five gigs out of this. And we're like, the first thought is like, God damnit. Yeah, why didn't I get that? But then we see them a week or two later and nothing has happened. Nothing has happened. And you're like, well, that's fine. Or we have seen people too have come out and said, that was the best networking event I've ever been to. And we were like, oh. You are like, uh, have you been to many? Has it been a while? Be like, may I, shit on your parade right now. I really think that a lot of the things that we talk about, you and I were like, oh no, we're gonna sound like broken records, but I know, but I think it's so helpful when somebody's interested in this topic and they're tuning in with us to realize how much all of these elements repeat again and again across the entire picture of networking and, um, one of those things. Is really that getting paid, it still comes back to hot, warm, and cold leads, which I believe you talked about in the last episode. And I'm just gonna copy you in this episode. and I would argue that that's actually not a networking problem when we're talking about this, but how, how soon do I get paid? It's, it's a business development problem and I am wondering how many people show up in networking rooms and maybe don't realize that they're attempting to solve the wrong problem in the wrong space. That's one of my hot takes for this episode. Ooh, okay. Tell me more. Um, well, so in the rest of my notes, I wrote down that I really feel like the benefit and value of networking is that you gotta interface with enough people so that you can get a read on where the economy is at. Oh, because we talk about this all the time. Yeah. We're like collectively, we're like, oh, it's not just me. Like all these other people are also having a slow, how did we figure out that 2025 was slow and weird? Because we talked with so many people and then there's other people who are like, well, doesn't everybody know that? And it's like, well, you know it because I told you. Because I just went to like how many events, 65 events. And now I have enough data I can tell you. And everybody benefits by those of us who are, you know, sharing that willingly. I think that, you know, if your goal is to get paid and you go to enough gatherings to talk to real life people and not just consume. What really is biased social media commentary when people are talking about business on there, then I think you'll know if getting paid faster or slower is a reality for you right now.'cause every industry is also different. But I do think that we, overall, you and I noticed that in general we tend to experience economic factors in similar timelines no matter your industry. and so you can get a pretty good read on the collective by simply existing in a socialized space. It's not a social club space, but a socialized space. So you've got it. Yeah. Talk to people and laugh at bad dad jokes and whatever, you know, don't blink, don't blink, or don't make eye contact at all. Don't make eye contact. That's my favorite. We see people that we've seen a bunch of times and we're just like, don't make eye contact. Don't make eye contact. The door is not open right now to talk. I can't, one of my other like really hot takes for this episode is that humans are not walking ATMs. So when we're talking about getting paid, I can always tell when somebody looks at me like I'm a cash cow. It really bugs me. Yeah. I think that's, do you feel like that's more, since you've had the physical space? No, it existed before then too. Oh. I think that when people talk, I mean, you and I will discuss bullshit reads on the things that people say, it, it's pretty clear. Usually when you talk with people, if they are legitimately. Really like making a living from what they're doing. Yeah. Which means they're gonna invest in things.'cause you can't do it alone. Yeah. You need help. so clear when somebody is or is not. And so that has been going on for a while. And I think too because like my world is visible enough and I stay visible and I market enough. Yeah. Not great, but enough people see me like I'm not, you know, hiding in a closet somewhere. Yeah. And people are like, oh, I had no idea that you do these things. But they know. Yeah. and I would say has definitely gone up since the studio's open. And I think that people just think maybe because you have an office lease that you must be rolling in the dough. And I'm like, oh, contr. And I was like, I must have miser face. It's just like nobody ever comes up to me and is like, would you like to invest in my business? Yeah. I feel like people sell me all the time on everything. They're like. Do you need a website? Do you need a CRM? Do you like everything? I'm like, no, no, I don't need that right now. Also, just use a spreadsheet. Whereas back when I did crafting, like vending, people would like the food vendors Yeah. Would keep giving me extra food because they would be like, you just look so feed able. And I'd be like, great, just keep the free samples coming. And my husband would always be like, you're by the cheesecake lady again. I'm like, yes, I am. What is the problem with this? I mean, use your resources. Yeah. Yes. I think to your point of, the economy as a whole Yeah. And, and that these spaces can exist as a way to get a, a reading a. Is it me or is everyone having trouble or is it in certain industries? I did hear a report that came out at the end of 2025 that the length of time to make a decision for, B2B sales has gone up 24%. And that's because the number of people needed to make a decision for a B2B deal has gone from five people to seven people. So there are more people that you need to convince to get that deal signed. So knowing things like that can help you, be more patient with yourself. And also one of the best things that I learned, I mean I'm fine to plug it, it's, it's leonal like smart gets paid mm-hmm. Is if you do B2B. You need an entire system. It's not a funnel, but it's a system to help people make that decision. So you are being their support person for every single, all seven people who need to make that deal. So even when you go into these networking things, it can be like, what information? Or like, what is the next step? I met them here. What is the next step to help them know is this the right thing to do or not? And I know, 'cause we're gonna have to have an entire episode on follow up ' cause it's like, oh yes, yes. My soapbox is the hill I will die on. But like. Like how long until I get paid? Well, how much support are you giving them to make that decision? Are you just, here's my business card and I'll never talk to you again. Or are you building up a trust and a rapport? Are you actively listening? Are you learning about them and saying, I hear that you're struggling with this and looking at it from the economic standpoint. You know, it might show you, and I think we're gonna talk about this later, like this is your, this is your lab, but certain needs come in and out of style of necessity. And like if you are gung-ho on just, this is what I do and you don't adapt to what everyone in the room is telling you. That's not how, that's not what I need right now or that's not how I describe it. Like I was talking about with the videographers, all we know. Yep. As somebody who isn't in media, all I know is I need somebody to shoot a video. But to videographers you, you know you're in it. You have a different language and so it's like, are we even using the right language to help somebody understand that you need me? Everything. I'm hearing you talk about points back to leadership and that this, that follow up sequence, which we are totally doing another episode on later, is all about you demonstrating. How they are going to be led by you when they actually sign it and pay for that contract. Yes. And it kind of goes back to just basic networking lessons that we talked about in the last episode, which is like you can't come to things empty handed and be like, well gimme, gimme your money and then I'll give you something. Yep. It's like you need to prove in some way that you are ready and capable. And I don't think that ever goes away because part of me internally wants to argue back and say, well, if you have enough body of work behind you and like your testimonials do a lot of the speaking for you, and you've got a reputation behind you, like, yay for you. Yep. But that's still, I don't think enough because when we look at economics right now, like budgets are tighter. People make decisions differently. They have to make decisions differently. The world is very unstable right now. And so whether you're a micro like solopreneur or you are, a big corporation, like big contract, multi decision maker, you know, longer timeline sale. As the person who is leading those people through the pro, the decision making process, like you said, you're gonna need. more patience. I really feel like this is really where the work begins. And it's sort of like by the time they pay you, it should make up for that previous labor because you're also learning enough about them. Yep. So that when you do sign the contract, you're like ready to work. you have vetted them at that point, right? Yeah. You've been able to say, this is somebody, they show up like how I want them to show up. Mm-hmm. They have a I I think I can handle them, I can deal with them, I want to help them. Mm-hmm. But also, yeah, every single step of the way you are showing this is how. If you've worked with me, these are my boundaries. And so even with the follow up, are you following up at like two in the morning? Because I check timestamps on emails from people. Same. And it tells me so much. And like you could, you know, schedule it for eight in the morning. Yeah. Super easy. It's, it's a free thing now. It used to not be free. It's free, it's easy, it's been free for so long. But like, yeah, you get to set the boundaries and say, this is, this is how I operate, this is how I interact. and I think it's important to remember when you go networking that even though it might feel like this is the room where it all happens, these are this, the deals are made, it's not. Nobody rocks in and makes a five or six figure deal. Mm-hmm. Oh, like a happy hour. No, because the things you need to talk about for that deal, legitimately yes. that conversation cannot happen in that room. No. And so they're not in a point to definitively say yes. So even if they say, that sounds great. All that meant is that sounds great. We should talk more because I don't have any details on you and you don't have any details on me. Yeah. And it's not to say like, you should be excited because you've got somebody through that first step. Yeah. But if, but if you feel like everyone is actually like exchanging money and contracts in a room around you, they're not, I Aw, you shattered my illusion. I know. Well, the first video I went to, that's how it felt like you would watch other people interact. Yeah. And they would like, cards would be exchanged. And the first thing is like, damnit, they just got a sale. See, I just see people and I look at them and I'm like, wow, that person is really good at peacocking. Like their feather, their plumage is so lush and beautiful and look at them. Go and maybe, well, okay, maybe this is for context because when I first leapt out of the nine to five, I was doing B2B contracts. And because entertainment is such an istic industry, I never had to worry about marketing at all. I just like had my network and they reached out and word got around that Mary's available and I had some really big contracts. My biggest contract back in the day was with Fandango and it was really nice money. because I've had that and I know how that conversation happens. I look around a networking room and I just know like. That's not happening here. sometimes I can also know enough about who's in the conversation to know that like, well that guy just told me last week about all of like the financial problems that are going on in his company. He can't afford this Yahoo, whatever. Yeah. Like he can't, so, sometimes I'm just like, oh, look at them doing their plumage dance with their feathers all up in the air. And, and I think that's where it becomes very entertaining. No, I think that's, yeah. I think your unique background speaks to that. Yeah. But I love that you pointed out that follow up process is what happens outside of the room where you think it happens. Yes. Is where you also discover, are they gonna be a PITA client because it's like dating. Yeah, everything comes back to being like dating and unfortunately, and I hate dating as you know, bless you, you don't have to date. But I choose not to. I know. the only dating I do is business dating where it's like, are you a fit? Are you of it? And really assessing do I wanna work with this person? Because you are not the only person who does whatever you do. I'm not the only person with the studio. I'm not the only person who produces podcasts. Yeah. I'm not the only person who's a business coach. On and on and on. Like you could pick so many other people, but the reason why we might choose to work together is because we actually like each other. Yes. think another thing that comes up more for me, you've run into some of it, although more is trades. I get people who say, yes, I wanna do something with you at a networking event. And then it, we get to a coffee date and it quickly becomes apparent. They want spec work. And you're like, ah, I did not set the boundary correctly. And that's on me. And I think you've had a few people, kind of like, you get people who like kick the tires a little bit and are like, oh, let's, let me come out to your space. Mm-hmm. And see it all. Maybe I'll think about it. And, and that's just par for the course. Like we, everyone will have it. But I think, taking nothing seriously until a contract is signed. All I can think is the phrase, talk is cheap, talk is good, but it's also cheap. This is why like, this is really the first part of the conversation.'cause you're right, follow up is definitely the part that comes next. And that's where it's like, okay, do you put your money where your mouth is? Literally in the sense, or you know, when the rubber meets the road, do you step up to the plate? You know, are you all hat no cattle and you just talk a real big game and you've got beautiful peacocking feathers in a room or, do you actually really do what you say you do? And not that because nobody is made of infinite budget or money. I mean, maybe theres like 1% of the population but for the rest of us, mere mortals, we do, we have to mind our budgets and you know, you're not gonna hire, well, I hope to God you're not gonna hire like you. Two web designers at the same time working on the same project. You wouldn't do that, you know? No. so, yeah. I, I think like this question of when do we, when do you get paid?' cause this is a private question. You and I have been asked so many times. Yeah. They're like, oh, you guys went to all these things. But like, you know, last episode was, is it worth it to go? And then the next question is like, but how soon until you get paid after you do all that, work work, quote, work. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, is net working. Oh my god. You know, I never thought about that. So you said that I didn't either. That is so cheesy and I love it. It is in there. Yeah. I want merch now. I hope somebody out. There's laughing at a really bad sense of humor. Alright. Um, the first thing that we really wanna dive in deeper is separating out leads versus discovery versus sales, which is decompressing the pipeline so everything's not smushed together. Because when we were putting this together, we were like, Hmm, maybe people need a little more honest clarity about real business process. Like we kind of smush everything down to compress it. And then you go to the networking event and you've got this like, really high expectation of what's gonna happen there. Yeah. And it's like, no, literally it's just Hello Doy vibe. And then there's a whole bunch more then the dance comes later. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I really think people mix this up all the time. I've been business coaching since forever it feels like. I really think that you have to think that not everyone you meet is about becoming a paid client. And when you walk into the room and you decompress that timeline and you're like, I'm gonna come in here, to your point in the last episode, like, why are you going to this event? I thinking like, do you go into your events always thinking, I need to get paid, I need to get paid, I need to get paid, or are you looking for good collaborators or good referral partners? You and I have walked into rooms before where we're like, we know we're probably gonna get better referral partners out of that room Yeah. Than actual client leads you're just not gonna get paid right away. Like there's, there's such a, I could, oh, we could have a whole other episode on how to get paid fast. That can come through networking. But is not, the sale doesn't happen in the room where you network. Correct. Right. And it's oddly enough the step, nobody wants to do the faster way. I know, I know. I like just, and it's the step I do. First you need to have conversations mm-hmm. With people and never things where you get to practice those conversations. Yep. So that when you're in the conversation that matters. Yep. The network in that you did the work that you did pays off. Yeah. And I, I think, you know, we, we said it in the last episode, like having the bingo card, which now I think we have to make um, I think so too, of like a wide variety. Like honestly I don't even go in with an agenda ' cause I'm like. What, what goodies, like what, you know, like it's, it's like a mixed bag of rocks and you're like, what rocks did I get in my, like, you know, in my collection. or maybe more like, uh, la boo boos. Like when you like open the box and you're like, my God, I got one of these. You like walk in and you're like, okay, who's gonna be the weirdest one here? and can I find them? If you can go in with that broader escapee and just listen to what are they actually saying they want help with, what are the hints that they drop? And I, I think for me, this might be like some is like childhood and, and some is being, uh, a writer, but like the words that people use show you their worldview. And also they drop hints all the time as to like, what is the state of their business, what are their priorities, what do they scoff at, what do they seem most interested in? And you can kind of begin to construct this little puzzle piece, you know, of like. This might be a person, this could go somewhere or to me. I'm also always like, who can I, like you said, what are you bringing? Who can I connect them to? I might have nothing to do with this person, but they seem really cool and they need X and I know somebody who does x. I will send them together. And karma will come back. Well, well, karma does come back. Karma does come back. I mean, it's, it's a funny, funny thing. Good people. No other good people. Yes. And you help somebody with a connection, which you and I love to do. And how many times do those people come back later and they're like, I just met this cool person and they have to meet you! Yep. And sometimes we've never met these people in real life. If it's virtual. Nope. you're gonna talk with somebody tomorrow that I met through a virtual event. She connected me and now us, by default, you're about to meet her when she's back in town. A person who is friends with this person who lives locally. I mean, like, it's this crazy story and it's such good connections. Yeah. And it expands a quality network because you did those things. but I love what you said about like listening to their cues because it hammers home like. Two super important points from my view. The first being, stop making it all about you. Like God forbid you actually listen to the person in front of you. It reminds me of my standup days where you would go for your five minute open mic and then like, if you could make a room of nervous comics at a five minute open mic, laugh at your jokes, you have like won the lotto. That is a winning piece because they're, they're just not paying attention. So they're so in their world and they're in their minds rehearsing all their things and they're just waiting for the mc to call their name to come up and do their five minutes. And I feel like so many of the people that we interact with in networking groups are like the nervous comics who are just rehearsing their thing in their head and there's so much in their head and it's like, you know, we actually will relax more if you just. Leave your own bullshit and just focus on the other person. Because the second part is that all those little hints they drop is gonna help you firm up how you talk about your offers. Yep. And make it more compelling and shorten that timeline to like wanting a better discovery call or being able to identify somebody in their network who they're like, oh, you really need to talk to my friend, actually. I wonder if a lot of people forget that. Yeah. I heard a statistic for active listening and it said that in general, like on sales calls, people the, like the client will feel the most, like, you are the perfect fit for me. If you let the client do 80% of the talking, yeah. You don't even need to say anything. And they will just be like, oh. We had such a great conversation, Uhhuh, and it's because nobody else listens to them. No. And, and being able to let silence land and not have to jump in and fill it right away. Because in business, I don't know where this comes from. If you are desperation, we're just like, and then I'll tell you more. Yeah. It's like selling your sham. Wow. And you're like, but wait, in the next 30 seconds, I will also sell you a set of jigs, knives. Yeah. Because I didn't respond right away with like, oh my God, that's perfect. Here's my guard. And you're like, but, but I also do this. And you're like, let me sweeten the deal. And right now, oh God, and, and then you never, that's not really a great human interaction, but B, you don't, you just don't get a chance to really hear them. people need a minute to think. Not everybody's fast on their feet. They're just not, and like, and also you meet people at all kinds of moments. If it's an after hours event, garrin fucking to you. I am tired. I have long days. And if I've been in the studio all day and I've been recording and I've been coaching people on the mic and on the camera and like. Processing files and holding space. And then I've got virtual clients and I'm like processing one thing over here, doing the active thing over here, coming back to check the file. And like, I mean, I task switch so hard all day long and, and then we go out to an after hours event and I'm like, you've warned me ahead of time. I do. I warn you. And I'm like, I'm really tired right now. well, it's that or I'm gonna cut a bitch. Hey, any guy tries to sell me on this. Oh god. And I love it when you notice it across the room and you see my face and I'm like, i'm gonna cut a bitch right now. Like, is he really talking about this right now? People need just like a minute to catch up to the conversation.'cause in your mind you've played out some Yes. Scenario and they're not, they're not in that scenario. They're in that scenario at all. No. And a lot of times too, you can use it if they have objections that is data for you. Yes. Right. Of what? objections. There's nothing wrong with objections. Oh, I love this. To have a conversation. Just to hear the objections. Oh, that's so good.'cause then you know what you need to do to overcome them. well then the networking event becomes incredibly valuable because you're solving some serious business pipeline issues. Well like we talked about this and I think we're gonna talk about it later. we AB test everything. So when I used to say like I help fan-based businesses, people would be like, I don't understand what that is. And I'd be like, I. Oh, and I used to think I need to change that. And now I'm like, oh no, you just don't actually see your audience as fans. Mm-hmm. So you're not ready. because somebody with the right, the right work, the right mindset would be like, yes, I do have a fan-based business and I need you, or I want one. Because I also wanna be like a K-pop band, you know, like, I want adoring fans. another thing is like, you know, when you, when you can go into a room with either broad, list a bingo card. And almost say also like there used to be this thing of like, do you want high expectations and then be disappointed, or do you want no expectations and be excited by what comes out? I would say, you know, like just by having that kind of broader thing. You're a little less disappointed'cause you were open to Yeah. It's not, I need to land three gigs tonight so I can pay my rent. That's a terrible way to go into it. The business coach would be, is cringing right now. Yes. Because I'm like, have I gone into one like that? Absolutely. Uhhuh. Yes. Is it a, did anything happen? No, no, I went home and I cried. We've, we've all done it. We've all done it.'cause Iki misplaced the intention where it needs to be. But it's like, if I need to land three clients right now, if I have the capacity to go to that networking event, go. But where those clients are gonna come from is going to be from, they're gonna be a cold lead. That's a cold lead. And now we gotta go all the way. I know. And it's like, okay, you should really be at home. Yes. Looking through your network. Yep. And evaluating who's hot or warm and making. You know, appointments so that you can have those conversations or sending the messages or whatnot. But, um, that is far less sexy to do, but that's also not what you solve in networking. What problem do you really need to solve? Yeah, like you said, if you, if the thing is driving you that you're like, I need money now. Going to a networking event is not the thing to do. that is a three to six month pipeline. Yes. It really is. And, and, and I mean this is, this is like old business coach Mary coming out, but when people would show up in a coaching room with me and they're like, I'm having like true desperation times, like, I need to get paid. I need to pay my mortgage or my rent. I need to put food on the table. I mean, basics need to be covered. we would have a come to Jesus talk about the state of their network. we would really look at who is a warm lead and a hot lead. And there would be a lot of times where people, they would come back and either they had never engaged in a lot of networking or they hadn't maintained the network that they had naturally built over time. And just like friendships, I think we talked about this in the premier episode, you can't just disappear on people and then come back and be like, do you want to buy my shemel? Because they're just not interested. They don't, they, no. That's just not how that works. And, I see this especially with people who are pivoting and they have kept everything in a vacuum and they have not told anybody about anything.'cause it's very vulnerable. And then they're like, well, shit, I need to get paid. push comes to shove and here we are having. Having a reality check and, you know, those are usually the points where I'm like, you need to go get a bridge job, a JOB job Yeah. To cover your bills while you shore all of this up. the very first thing is like network, network, network. So that you can get back into being top of mind for people and visible and social media is fine, but unless you set up the business model to be based out of social leads, which most people do not do. Yep. Do not want to do. And also like the viability of that has just decreased so significantly in the last few years that it's really not where the good money comes from. It will give people proof of life that you exist, which you do need to. Yep. Um, but it's not like instant conversions or anything. And. And to convert those people is costs a lot of money Yeah. To do that. So, so yeah. I just, I just feel like you need good relationships first period. Always. that this question of when do I get paid can bring up this question of like, well, do you have a network? Network in a current one? And is anybody in there even warm or hot? This comes up a lot. So much, and no one wants to, it's the hardest, it's the hardest question to answer in the sense that it's embarrassing. It's hard to admit to yourself. Yes. of course it is. Of course. It's hard to admit to yourself. It's a really sucky thing to be like, well, shit. Yeah, because you, you can open your LinkedIn and you can go. I have 500 plus connections, look at me, go. Mm-hmm. But if you actually emailed or even dmd, that person would they respond. And if that's your benchmark, which that's kind of the bar on the floor. Yeah. And you're like, maybe 10% would. Mm-hmm. That shows you the actual guys of the network. And that's then maybe a lukewarm lead, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That they have responded and said, Hey, mm-hmm. I do remember you. Mm-hmm. Or, oh yeah, I think I remember you. Mm-hmm. I think when we're just talking about like reconnect, like if you need, if you need money now And you need to reconnect to the base. I think, the question is what does that look like? Because I can hear people saying, I did, I posted it on LinkedIn to everyone posting is not working. What that needs to be on a hat posting, do you mean I have to do more? Not equal sign noting. Yeah. And it's not more, it's actually more efficient to not default to posting, but to 'cause it's so passive. Yeah. To actually reaching out and having to develop your social skills to communicate coherently with people. Like, I don't know that everyone really recognizes how much these. Frankly less sexy things 'cause you're not peacocking on, on a feed that can be looked at later that these less peacocky things are actually, you know, the, the true money maker and also the trust building skill that you need to have with your potential clients or with your referral partners. You and I have both been asked by so many people in the last year. Can we like haw their, you know, offer and I love me a good affiliate link and I will always share whenever I can. Yeah. But my audience isn't warm to your offer. No. So just because I share it with people doesn't mean you're gonna get a sale. I'm also, frankly, really busy during the day with paid, paid work that I'm not gonna go through my list and do the lead work for you of like, Hmm, I wonder who, who will bite on this first? Because the affiliate sale for that is just not enough. Yeah. And it's like, I can like help bring you some visibility or whatnot. Like that's always exciting to help. But, I think sometimes we, we think that asking people to do things. It just doesn't work. I would love it if it worked for me too. I'm telling you. Love it. And I still say to other people, I'm like, people are like, how can I help you? I'm like, well, if anybody needs a studio, you know? Yeah. but I'm also like, I don't expect that person to find me the leads that I need. those relationships are something that I have to forge. Now they can introduce me to somebody.'cause they're like, Mary, I know somebody who was just asking the other day. Yep. You know, and I'm like, great, I will totally talk to them. But to just be like, you know who has a thing, you should just buy her thing. it just doesn't work that way. I knew it was gonna come up eventually and, ' cause it's the book that I will promote nonstop on this podcast. But, promote it. I know this poor woman, uh, 'cause it's so hard, like you have to, no library has it in the us I think she's British. but there's a book called Reach Out by Molly Beck. it is like, whenever anybody's like, I need to build a network, I wanna get into networking, it's the one I recommend. It was recommended to me and it systematizes how to reach out to people. But it also shows you how to reconnect with your past network. Yeah. Or your kind of dead network. it's not just an email that says, hi, this is what I'm doing. I need this from you. Do you know somebody who wants this? Imagine that you are going to a dinner party. You bring a bottle of wine or you bring a gift, even though the person is holding the dinner party in their house. When somebody shows up with a gift, the first thing you do is try to find another gift to give to them. Because you're like, oh my God. Oh, okay. Like patting down your pockets, like, what's in my purse? What can I give you? Would you like the painting on my wall? You know, like it's just human nature to wanna reciprocate. Yeah. And so in the book it kind of talks about that you have these two, favors, two gifts that you give. So the first might be a compliment. So it shows that you, did you even look at what your contact has been up to? So did you go on LinkedIn and you're like, oh my God, I saw that you just got that promotion. I, I saw this post, I read it. It was really good. Congratulations on that. Or like, did you spend any time seeing where they are in their life? Then sometimes that's enough. And then you can be like, I wanted to let you know, here's where I am now. you know, this is what I'm trying to do. That is so powerful.' cause I've had people in the past who were like, oh Mary, I saw that you were doing whatever. And I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, yeah. Thank you for noticing. It's a huge gift. Uhhuh, what's happening now is fascinating because I haven't had the keys to this super long. So things are still kind of ramping up at the, at least at the time of the recording. a year from now, not so much, but like, but at the moment I've still got people who I can tell haven't paid attention to one thing and I'm like, I have posted so much and sent out emails and like, you kind of have to be living under a rock right now if you orbit my world in any way, shape or form and not recognize that something shifted in Mary's world. And they'll be like asking me about tarot readings, I still do them. I have the private subscription podcast, but it's such a small part of the world. I think one of the things that was fascinating in the fourth quarter is somebody reached out to me, I don't even know if I told you about this, and ' cause at the time I was just like, and I'm parking that way off the back burner because she was like, oh, how's your mastermind still going? And I was like, looks at watch, uh, that retired more than two years ago. Where have you been? and I realized like, oh, what do you want? Yep. What do you need? But people really do notice compliments and mm-hmm. You always wear interesting earrings and people are like, I love your earrings. And they are, they're really cool. But more than just like, oh, I love your earrings. Or, you know, it's always nice to be like, oh, you look so nice today or something. Yeah. You know, that's, that's always a, an appreciated compliment I think, for anybody. But if you really wanna make contact with somebody to have paid attention to their world and to see them at an event and be like, Hey, I, I loved that episode you guys just did on whatever. Yep. Like, boy, does that bump you to the top of the visibility list for them. I wish more people would do that, but it tells me how much people gloss over all of the marketing material that people said. Yes. Yeah. But it, it also shows how, like you said, one side and how little they cared. They did not take any time to just see how you're doing. They have not opened an email. They have not read an email. They have not looked at any of your social posts. They have not. Oh, that happened last summer. Um, I. With that event that I collaborated on during Pride Month. Mm. Mm-hmm. And I got this DM from somebody after all of the, like, post-event reels went out and it was like, look at what we did. And she was like, oh my God, how did I miss this? And I wrote back and I said, well, I sent like a lot of emails. You're like, I don't know. How did you, I don't know how else to, and I said, and I posted about it a lot. Like it's been all over social. Yeah, you did. Like, I don't know how else to tell you. And um, she came back like a couple hours later and she dug through her email and she was like, oh my God. You, you did, you sent me like a. A lot of emails and she was like, I really need to pay attention to my emails more. And I was like, probably, probably. and you know, I think it kind of goes back to some of this theme that's starting to show up in our episodes as we record them, which is like, you've just gotta stop making everything about you all the time. Like if you need something from other people, you have to be thinking about where are other people at right now? What are they doing right now? Like if I, and I do, I skim through everybody's email newsletters and I can tell when somebody's going through a hard time, we're having a really great season, and if they're having a really hard time. Maybe they do something really cool and I kind of need something from them, and I'm like, Hey, so you wanna help me with whatever? And like their last newsletter was about grief and how they lost a parent and whatever. I'm like, talk about bad timing. Yeah. and I, I, I think that that skill could make such a big comeback this year. Maybe that's the hill we die on. Yeah. Caring. Oh, what a concept. newsflash.

Tonight's broadcast at 6: 38:22

00 PM Being a nice person is all you need, but also, right. Didn't we learn that caring is sharing? Yes. And you're sharing your network and referrals and if you show you care. Mm-hmm. I don't know why people hoard their networks. I don't either. Like everybody benefits. When you introduce good people to other good people. It's not like you were gonna make any money off of it, like Uhhuh. Oh no. You can only talk like, where's my$5 and then I'll send you, I mean, we can make some money if we did that, but No, but if you're making, if you're making like a referral, oh, that was that last year when I got the introduction to this like pretty big. business coach dude down in Arizona and Oh, yeah, yeah. And he kept trying to mind me for info. And finally I put down like the, the, the line, because I was not busy when he got introduced to me. And then I got real busy because he wouldn't commit to a package and it was very extractive and I was over it, and then he asked for a referral to someone like me. And so I said, sure. Basically to do the job you turn down. Mm-hmm. And I said, I can totally give you a referral. Here's my referral fee. And it was the standard industry percentage rate for making those kinds of business referrals for what he needed. And and then his channel just like went silent. So in that sense, you can make money off of a networking contact. Well, I think that's different because he literally was saying like. I need to replace you. Who do you know Uhhuh who could replace you instead of mm-hmm. You being like, you two should have Yes. A cute little meet. Cute. You know, and like, uh, collaborate together. Yeah. That is wild. Um, but we have met people, male and female, who will, who will gate keep their community, their, their network. Oh, completely. I think it's a power thing. Yeah, it is. It's also insecurity, it's scarcity mindset. Oh yeah. Yeah. But you weren't gonna. If you do share them, generally that person, like we said earlier, will come back and be like, oh, I actually know somebody. Or, that was so nice, I was able to do X. Yeah. I'm gonna keep you in mind because you connected me to that person. Yeah. You weren't gonna get money from that person anyway. Nine times outta 10. I was just thinking of like all the times when people get visibly, upset that you know somebody that they know that they've been hoarding and they're like, how do you know them? And it's like, we got introduced through this other person. Like people know other people, like they're, they're not yours to covet. And I personally get you're not an abusive relationship with them uhhuh. So like I personally get really annoyed when people do that towards me. Yes.'cause I'm like, I introduce you to so many people. Yeah. I love that. You made a really good point as we were getting this episode together. About managing connections and it was just sort of this random note, but we have to throw it in. So bonus, bonus at like the 50 minute mark to stop focusing on CRM software and like just simplify it. Just use a spreadsheet. Honestly, I don't think anybody has enough contacts or they are going through such a pipeline development that they need to busy themselves with setting up a CRM. I think it's an avoidance technique of doing the actual work of having like this busy work. A meaningful conversation. Yeah. It makes you feel, it makes you feel like you're doing things but you're not. Yeah, no, I mean like, 'cause everybody, this is like, what it seems I am known for is the follow-up queen. You are the follow-up queen. My god, I love it. But it's just a notion board. It's just a notion board. It is all the contact info I need. It tells me how I met them, who connected me so that I can remember. and then I have a, I have date classifications, so like when did I send the email and what is the follow up date? And then it's simply filtered by that and on a certain day of the week, and it's all in that book, reach out certain day of the week. You go in and you follow up and you follow up. And you don't have to be as tenacious as I am. I tend to be like, if I wanted, I'm gonna go get, I will not let you. But it comes from wholesale. Like wholesale. I would hound shops for over two years. That makes sense. Every three months. Yeah. Because with that, they just weren't ready because they may be needed to. They can't sell in the too many, in the same category. So you kind of had to wait for somebody to cycle out. And then you can be top of mind to come in. And that was what they'd say is like, we just don't have shelf space. Right. You're on the list, but you need to keep coming up in their, their feed. So for certain things, like, you know, that, that is a tactic. we've talked a lot about making money and also not making money, thinking about it as Who can we collaborate with? Who can we become friends with? you know, and you helped me with this, that coming into a room desperate drives people. They can smell it. They know. Oh, people can smell desperation. Yes. Yeah. I think this can be a great exercise to do when you're learning to. Get out of your own head so much, not make it about you so much. Yeah. Is to purposely go to an event and be like, I have no objective by being here. I am going to listen to Mary and Meghan and pretend that I am drinking the proverbial gossipy tea. And like, what are people actually doing and saying, And just noticing, paying attention. Like how do I feel when I am interacting with this person? So that you can check yourself with like where your own anxieties begin and end. And then you can clock what's going on with them. Because I think sometimes you can mistake what you're feeling as oh, they were acting this way towards me, and actually they weren't. And you can start noticing how many people come into the roof. So desperate. Yeah. And you can smell it on them, and you walk away without being able to do that analysis or as quickly you walk away from the interaction thinking like, well, they were kind of weird, or I just didn't like them. Yep. Or, that event was bad. Maybe it just, you ended up talking with all the desperate people and you didn't realize it. And that one event we went to, oh, the one event. Just one for, well, the one that specifically, it was for a. certain type of industry. Mm-hmm. But no one in that, no one holding a nine to five in that industry was present. Mm-hmm. It was only contractors looking to work with those people. They were all sharks. They were all looking for work. All looking for work. And as you went round and introduced another person and another person and then looked around, you realized, oh, you are all contractors. Mm-hmm. Looking for the client who, none of them showed up to this event. Yeah. And probably because funding was good ' cause it was for nonprofits, so it was like they have no money, they are overworked. Their whole business isn't like everything's in crisis. They're not coming out to a happy hour right now. And, but all of us did. Yeah. And the people who were desperate were really, you could see how quickly they circled the room trying to find the people who weren't there. Yes. And well, I think this is in like a different episode, not this episode. Yeah. But it really highlights that the decision makers, that all those people wanted to meet are never going to be at that event. No. Never, ever, ever. Nope. They are too up too high up the food chain to go to an after hours happy hour Yep. Event where you're just supposed to chit chat and meet people because they don't have that need. No. Or they're gonna send a staff member to go do it instead. and that these decision makers or executives that we wanna meet are frequently, they're just, they're busy and at the end of the day, going to a, an event that they genuinely don't need to go to, there's no reason is not on the day's agenda. I think that a lot of those people, we met those contractors at that nonprofit networking event could have gotten a lot out of the event if they had approached it with, who here has expansive networks where we can be mutually beneficial to each other? Yes. And there was like nobody who did that. and it was frankly, like, it was really disappointing. we met really nice people. Yeah, they were really cool. People loved them, some of them really great, but the people who had any kind of clout in the room, you know, to like wave one of my peacock feathers around, I already knew them. So it wasn't, you know, that wasn't new. And that relationship is forged in other places that have absolutely nothing to do with nonprofits or contract work. Because the way that my A DHD brain works is that you've got a room full of contractors. Yes. Why would you not be, like, why would the videographer not be like, oh, the fundraising strategist, I should meet them because they will need to bring me in to the projects that they get. Or the copywriter should be going to the website designers and being like, Hey, you will need to bring me in for the job. Yeah. But nobody thinks like that, so I think it's a, instead of desperation, you know, coming in with that. I think one, one way that people can go in instead is like, what does the successful version of you. Going to a networking event like, because that person makes very different decisions. I love this so much. I learned it from a sales coach and she's like, this is how I started to make better decisions is that the person, the version of me that makes a hundred K or 200 k or whatever your goal is, they show up, they make different decisions. They don't, they have a full funnel. Mm-hmm. Right? And that is more attractive to people in the room. And it might not be the, it's not the truth, but if you present it, you're not a hot mess. Like people are like, oh, look at how successful that they're so calm. They know what they're doing. They seem interested in what I have to say. I wanna work with them. I think this goes back to are you solving the right problem in the right room? And it's like, yes, you could. Two things can exist at the same time. You can be solving the right problem in terms of in networking, to lead my way towards finding the clients and the connections that lead to those clients. Like money. Yes. And also at the same time, you can need to be making money in some other capacity to reduce the desperation. Yep. So that your conversations honestly, are going to be better because you're not gonna be like, I'll take anything. You're like, no, I, I'll take the thing I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah. not everybody has the luxury of being able to say, I'm only gonna wait for my absolute most ideal client. I have had such a be in my bonnet about this for years because, you know, you, like some people, you, you have to take contracts that aren't your favorite contract for a while. Yeah. But it's a both and, and like, if the idea of having to do the not ideal contract and at the same time continue to hustle your buns to find the right people for the contract, that is the most ideal for you. If doing both of those things at the same time wears you out in reality. And even just, especially if, just thinking about it like, boo, do I have news for you? I don't know that entrepreneurship is the thing for you, because that's what you're doing all the time in entrepreneurship. Is not always taking like contracts that aren't ideal for you, but like it's never going to be perfect. No. So if you can't do two things at the same time, heaven forbid, three, you're looking at a W2 JOB job, which is I show up to this very expected thing and they pay me every two weeks. And it's that security and that feeling. And, that is the thing that I think networking can be a really big leading indicator for an individual because it is such a necessary thing for business. Yep. And you don't have to do it the same way everybody else does, as we have discovered. But you do have to do it. Yeah. And I think, I think if you can go into each of the events, seeing it as a science lab Yes. Like, you know, every, every, every space is different. All the people are different. So like. What are the economic conditions that are affecting people right now? Who's in the room? What kind of industries are here? Mm-hmm. Are they up? Are they down? Mm-hmm. how much income are people making? You can tell quite a bit by, by clothing accessories, the language that they use. But like, it's all a science experiment. Like how, how do, how do I get the people to Yes. How do I get their contact info? What's the follow up like? But like, I think just taking all the pressure off and we've both been in places where there is extreme pressure. Mm-hmm. Because we've both have had times in our lives, mm-hmm. Where, you know, it, it is all on us. Mm-hmm. And it's just not fun. Uh, no. It's a very scary place. It's a very scary place. But that, that is the time to go to the existing network. Yes. And shore that up, because that's the fastest way. But you're going to have to care for people and you're gonna have to write some emails. Yeah. And you may have to get on the phone. I would argue in this day and age, you have to get on the phone at this point. And the email is just the, can we have a phone call? Exactly. You know, it is. Can we have a coffee date? Like I, yeah. It's been too long. I think the hardest thing, 'cause I know intuitively I know somebody is listening to this and they're like, oh my God. They're like, my network is dead. Yeah. I have a dead on arrival network. And it's like, okay, you have a dead on arrival network. And that's where you have to start making some really critical decisions. And if you are not fortunate enough to have any kind of dual income that can back you up in the meantime, then you have to find something that will pay for your bills temporarily. Yep. Until you rebuild that network. And then it's, the motto after that is, never again will I let my network die. Because so many people come into it with like, well, I need it now and it's really hot. And then. It's done and then they drop off and they leave and then there's always a cycle to things and then the clients leave and then they're like, oh no, I don't have anybody else to, and, and the people used to talk to, it's like, you saw my last business die. Yeah. That's what happened. Yeah. And then you say never again and you build it from scratch. Mm-hmm. It's kind of like when people come back to me for like, coaching. Networking and I'm like, I am so heavily in the marketing media space now that I'm like, yeah, I still have some contacts. But a lot of those people have moved on from what they're doing too. So like everyone's constantly ebbing and flowing and changing and so if you don't keep up with 'em Yep. And they don't have an opportunity to keep up with you. You have such a problem. So maybe people have homework. They have homework. The homework question we had for them was, it's so sexy homework, is we notice how many people we talk to who go into an event without any plan at all. So you could ask yourself, what's your plan for your next networking event? I just think like the more we can walk into these events and recognize that humans are not walking ATMs on two legs. Because that term was literally used 10 years ago in the online entrepreneurial industry, and they were like, oh, no. Mm-hmm. They're like, well, if you set up your passive income, people are just, it's your, your email list is an ATM. And I'm like, yeah, no, no, no. That doesn't, that's no. And I feel like that toxicity has seeped into just the wider business community. Yeah. And you and I notice it when we walk into rooms. Yeah. We love the people who don't treat us like ATMs. Have you noticed that? Yeah. You know, but, but yeah. I love that you, you treat everything as a science lab. I think that that is such a great way to look at it, to keep the curiosity alive and to make it more fun. It's my number one value, thank God, because Mary's a very optimistic person until she's not. And then I get in the car with you and you're like, let's go second lab. And I'm like, did you notice? That's it for today's episode of The Awkward Handshake. We record at Sasquatch Media Grounds in Vancouver, Washington. I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap Design and creator of PDX Spellbound, and I'm Mary. Founder of Sasquatch Media Grounds and Sensible. Woo. You'll find links to everything we mentioned, guests, resources, and ways to connect with us in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform. That's also where you'll get updates on where we're headed next, and when we're inviting listeners like you to join us for guided networking in person and online. Don't be passive. Click the links. Pick better rooms. We'll see you there.