Were they lucky?

In this episode of The Awkward Handshake, Mary and Megan dig into one of the most quietly toxic questions in business and creative circles:

Are they actually lucky… or are we just not seeing the work behind their network?

If you’ve ever left an event feeling like everyone else walked out with deals, connections, and momentum while you walked out with cold fingers and existential dread — this one’s for you.

This conversation pulls apart the myth of “overnight success” and reframes luck as something far less mystical and far more actionable. Spoiler: it’s not about being charming, flashy, or everywhere at once. It’s about showing up consistently, caring genuinely, and building relationships that compound over time.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Why envy and jealousy aren’t character flaws, but data points
• The difference between posturing and real momentum
• How “luck” is usually preparation plus proximity
• Why showing up in the right rooms matters more than going to every room
• The hidden labor behind “borrowed audiences” and big collaborations
• What real reciprocity looks like (and how to spot one-sided networking fast)
• Why social skills, curiosity, and generosity still outperform hacks and funnels
• How to stop waiting for a fairy godmother and start building your own leverage

This episode is especially for listeners who are tired of transactional networking, allergic to fake hype, and ready to build connections that actually lead somewhere — even if that path is slower, quieter, and far more sustainable.

You don’t need more luck.
 You need better rooms, better reps, and better relationships.

And yes… the numbers never lie — but neither does the room.

Keep in touch!

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Transcript

0:00

This is The Awkward Handshake, a podcast about networking business and what really happens in the room. We're unpacking the good, the bad, and the awkward, so you can build better connections and get paid. Let's get into it. Before we start the episode, we just wanna do a little bit of, an announcement that there is a protest going on just down the street from Mary's studio. And so if you hear little beep beeps going on, it is in support of some good things. So just, you know, wave your little flags. and know that we are not going to stop recording just because. People are peacefully protesting actually we're gonna like really fucking fully support that. Yeah. So it might get a little, you know, be peep at times. That is not us swearing in the background. I'm just gonna say it out loud. We're an anti-fascist podcast, so if you don't like that, there you go. Maybe you have the year that you deserve. I said that without swearing. Go forth and fuck Yes, I am gonna keep that in the episode. Well, there isn't a good segue from that. I'm so sorry. It's alright. so this episode we're gonna talk about were they lucky or was it their network? Mm-hmm. And so this one kind of came up as a little bit of a wild card for the last episode of this launch week. But we have been to enough things where you see people who. seem to walk out of the room with tons of connections or their pipeline is always full. Business is always sunny. they land client after client, they get the big deal, they get a good speaking gig. And it can be hard to judge for yourself how to react to that. But also like, was it just luck or is it from work that they've put in? And that's kind of a question you and I ask when we get in the car on the way home and we're like, oh my God, did you see so and so got X as well? You know, like they've already gotten all these good things and now they got this. And let's sit with that for a bit, on the drive home. Can I be cynical for a minute? Yeah. Because I'm also usually the one who's like, but did they, I like to pick apart the difference between somebody posturing, which definitely happens. I mean, who doesn't wanna look good? Right? But between people who are inflating things versus really genuinely celebrating something. And they, I think you and I have gotten pretty good at telling the difference between the two. I think if you're out of practice with socializing, it might be hard to tell the difference between that sometimes, but the emotion that we, came into for this episode was envy or jealousy. those are not, bad emotions. They're symptomatic emotions. Like they tell you you want something. I think that's the more important thing is like, even if somebody's posturing and like, I did this and you're like, damn it. To be able to like look at that and say like, oh, because I want it is important.'cause I think that will help you get further faster. we were talking before the show, like, you landed a really big speaking gig you did and I was so excited for you. And then the second thought was, well I won and then you laughed.'cause I said, then the next internal voice was like, but you didn't apply to anything. So like, what do you expect? And I was like, oh yeah, good point. Okay. I can't really complain yet. Yes. but when it comes to like, were they lucky or was it network? I think we both agree it tends to be a bit of both. Yes. Yes. For someone's success. Yes. And a big part is, well, what did they say? Luck is 90% preparation or something like that. I'm getting, I'm getting that totally wrong. I know it. But you do, you set yourself up for success and I just really feel like it means like you literally have to show up people who don't show up. Don't get lucky what you don't like, what do you think is gonna happen? It's like those, those memes where people, it's dating all, I mean it's bringing dating again. I know.'cause all I can hear is the, the Pharrell Williams, song at the get lucky. Oh yeah. The stay on up all night to get lucky. it's like when the people say, you know, oh, I wanna meet the love of my life, but like, can they knock on my door?'cause I'm home in my pajamas at nine and I've got my pint ice cream and Netflix is on. And they're like, how come I don't meet people? But business people do the same thing. Yes. And they're like, oh, but it's cold outside or I don't feel like going and, and here you and I have like. Gone out and like done the thing this week, that event. It was so cold this week. Yeah, we were done. The wind was whipping. It was so freaking cold. Oh my God. Yeah. It was like, get in the car, but you're like, beep, beep. Get in. We're going Get in, bitch. We're going Networking. I love it. You have a, you have a really great story for this about art students. Yeah. So when I was in art school, everybody would talk about, Damien Hurst because it was this myth going around. So he was obviously a huge artist, that he had a lucky break. Like he had a show and it just happened to be that saachi of Saachi Gallery walked in and was like this. And then like, just like his career took off. And so art students were kind of taught like, you'll, you can't bank on anything, just have the show and something will maybe happen. And if you get lucky, you can have a career like that. But what actually happened is that he had a student show and the professor organized and had a network and brought in Saachi and Rosenthal and all the other big New York Gallery people. And they didn't actually like his work. No artist got picked up at that show. And then two years later, Damien Hurst had another, he had a solo show and Satchi came to that one. And so there, there's information we don't have, but I would guess that he stayed in communication enough. To get Saachi to come again, to come to the show and saachi. That's when he then first did his like dead animal in a cage or in a case thing. And Saachi saw that and said this, I want this. And then he took off. But it wasn't the luck that you think it's not, it's not that dream client who just walks in, you know, like a romance novel. Like they just, it tends not to happen. There's a lot of building, but when you are not, when you're the third character, you know, the side character, you don't see that. So you just get to see somebody, meet someone at a networking event, and then the next time you see them, they're like, oh yeah, I landed a, a five figure deal. And you're like. Well, where's mine? Like where's my tall, dark and handsome to go? Like, I keep thinking like, well, it ruins the fairytale, like the Cinderella story is actually full of preparation. Yeah, well there's, yeah. And the dredge work. But that's in the Cinderella story. But it's also in the Cinderella story. But we, she did have to work a whole lot. But we think about the fairy godmother showing up and then the glass slipper being put on her foot, and meanwhile the poor girl's being tortured. But the question I always ask,'cause I grew up in fairy tales, was like, why did she have one? Mm. Like, why, why did she come thin? Like, is this standard? Did they all have one? Like, or is it like, oh, poor, somebody needs assistance and you don't really wanna be the like the. Pity person that somebody has to come save you, but you just turned Cinderella to a pity store. That is a first. I've never heard anyone say that before. That's amazing. Well, in world building, right? They didn't, they didn't set precedents. Do they all have one? How did she get like the, the writer, the baby writer in me was like, wait, wait, wait. It didn't explode. Like you can't just drop that ball. But, but yes, we don't, we don't get fairy godmothers, but we, we can prepare. And I do think you could almost say that good connectors could be fairy godmothers. Because in our chat with Nedra coming up, like we talked about, you are kind of the, when you get to be a connector, you do get to play fairy godmother or matchmaker. Yes. But you have to trust. Yes. The person, like you have to be in connection with them. Yes. Which is where some of the work is and we've gone wildly off, but that's fine. No, I think it all fits so beautifully because. One of my notes for us for this episode was about being generous because we have talked about how many times have we seen people wanting something for nothing. Yeah. and I think that the fantasy is that the fairy godmother magically appears and grants you this wish you didn't even know you wanted. And you're like, what? Oh my goodness. Now I'm going to the ball and like all the good things are happening. And look, I didn't have to do anything other than get through this drudgery. And then, oh, like South by Southwest isn't just gonna randomly invite me to come speak and I'll open my inbox and go, me, you found me. You have to submit the talk. God damnit. And I did. And then there was like a co, well, a little unexpected. I didn't think that they were gonna say yes, but Yeah. They, but they did. But it's, but, but the things that went into that talk submission are years of labor. Yeah. and so I'm sure they did some digging into you as well and looked at who are your connections and What is your presence and what do you have to offer? And they had 300 submissions and they chose 10. Wow. Yeah. I get do a plus plus student. I try, I, I'm so excited. I want brisket. Everybody knows. I'm like, I if, you know, when you live in a place, there's always something special. And when I lived in Austin, the one thing I miss is smoked. Texas style brisket. There's nothing like it. So you, you don't even care about being on the stage. You're just there for the brisket. I'm never there for the brisket. Oh my goodness. Um, I'll have reports on brisket, but, I, you know, I, so this would not be the first time I have been to South by, I used to go all the time when I was there. And, this will be the first time in a while since I have been back. And this notion of generosity is very apparent in an environment like that. You get a lot of heavy hitters who go there. It's a place to see and be seen. And on a local networking standpoint, like the stuff that we do on sort of a weekly basis around here, it's, the stakes are significantly lower and honestly less glamorous. Definitely. but the notion of, Networking so that you build relationships instead of just trying to extract from somebody to get their best contacts, because you haven't put in all the reps. You know, like when you have a really great contact with somebody, you wanna preserve their relationship with other people too. Like it's a two-way street and with really great contacts. And so you're not just going to just here take everybody, you know, like that you're sort of abusing access to people I wonder if more and more people are gonna start guarding their rolodexes just a little bit more. I know you and I have started doing that. Yeah. I mean, I mean, we connect a lot of people with a lot of other people, and not in a mean way. No, no. But like, if I, like I have recently, because of all the speaking I've been doing, I've recently been introduced and now have people in, literally in my phone who are very important people. And I'm not just gonna give out someone's phone number. I'd be so pissed if they did that without me. Yeah. but like, if the introduction is proper and it should happen, the introduction will happen. Yes. But I think like you, if you don't have anything yet to bring to the table, I think that's where it gets hard. And it's like the thing you do have to bring to the table is showing up consistently. And I don't, I, I think people forget how valuable an asset that is. like you can be the nicest person in the world, but if I see you once every five years, you're just the nicest person in the world. Yeah. And I think by, by showing up repeatedly, you're kind of allowing for better and more repeatable results. better than luck, I would say, because you have Yes. More control. It can come more often. if you have systems in place, then you can kind of turn up the tap when you need to and turn it off a little bit when you're like, whoa, way too many clients in the pipeline right now. Mm-hmm. Let's, mm-hmm. Let's slow it down, but then I know what I need to do to turn it back on. Yeah. And get more people. in terms of like the jealousy thing too, or just. Feeling like somebody is so lucky when they go to things. You and I have been to events with people and we'll walk out and they'll be like, that was the best ever of like, it was, everybody was amazing. And you and I have like just shared a glance to be like, were in the same room, because that was terrible. Like, that was, that was not what we needed. That was pretty standard. and I, I think it, it helps then if you're going with other people and some are just gushing over how amazing it was. All the cool people that they met and you were like, I must have talked to absolutely the worst people in the room. I didn't get anything out of it. I think it's important to remember standards. Yeah. Everyone has different standards. Yes. Some people are just content, like a golden retriever. They're just happy to be there. Yes. And like anybody is a good, good person to hang out with. And you might be more like a cat and you're like, yeah, didn't really, yeah. Didn't, didn't meet anybody that could help me or that. I, I liked going back to our last episode, like, it just might, everybody's different. Everybody's different. You're allowed to be different and you, and I've had different reactions on different nights, just depending on how energized or not energized we are, or who we talk to. Mm-hmm. And then there's some events where, or communities where we know that there are gonna be people we really enjoy seeing. And so we're like, yeah, you know, I didn't get like a whole lot of, I. Juicy leads or anything out of that, but the nurturing of the relationships and the face time with these people is so critically important and those activities stacked up again and again and again over time, I believe is what starts to form this picture of luck that we see with people where it's like, how do they know all those people? well, they know them because they put in the sweat equity to make those relationships work. you and I got some compliments this week at an event where, um, somebody who apparently has seen us a few places was like, oh, I see you two. And, you know, we do all these things. And it was kind of like, is this really happening right now? and I think people forget how much visibility not on social media, but in real life matters. I think I have been posting significantly less on social than I used to. I mean, well, I know I have and we got tagged in a couple of things from a couple of people from that event. But I didn't put out any social No. And I still have people with my email Thought this, this notion of luck, I thought it was so good when we were like, let's talk about it in Premier Week, because the business world just gets so small so quickly. And I know I keep saying that in all these episodes, but it's true. And when you see people putting in the sweat equity, you can tell how serious they are. And that has like a direct correlation to revenue streams and more leads and people talk and, and those of us who've been showing up regularly for each other over the past year, we've all been pretty honest with each other. We're like, yeah, 2025 was a really weird year. Yeah. Like some good things happened, some bad things happened. But overall, like it was not the, definitely not the easiest, maybe not the worst ever, but it was not easy and. because we know that, we're like, oh, how do I help you? Or when a good contact comes up, they're a lot more likely to say, Hey, I, I, I found somebody. Do you wanna talk to them? Or if we host an event and we're like, we're doing a coffee thing, and they're like, yes, I'm coming. I think those are the things you're looking for. And they create those lucky situations, kinda like saachi walking into your gallery show, which is like, great. Just, just, it's just Saachi happens to come by. It happens to me. Like, who's the of business around here? Ooh, that's a well, we know who it is. Do we? Well, for certain people looking for a job, yes. We know who it's, oh, yes. That saachi, there is a, for people looking for a job, there's a, there's a man in town that. Mean, if people bought him drinks, he would be so drunk, but like everyone wants to go speak to that man, there's a line to go see him. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he's so sweet and so kind. Uh, and they should be tied with his assistant, who was completely free. I mean, we had great, great time coaching up at third. Yeah. Because nobody wanted to talk to her. No. She could do the same thing, but we were like, Hey, do you wanna come on the podcast later? Yep. See you later. And people are like, oh, you're so lucky. No, we're not, not lucky to just talk to people. Well, and I think that that leads us well into, you know, one of our segments. It's just like, like you, like how to get good collabs because it's not always about clients. Like some of these really good lucky things Yes. Can be collaborations. And like you said, like we, we hit up somebody and they said yes to coming on the podcast. And it was mostly because we had chatted with her several times. We showed up to things that they put on. we went and talked to her when nobody else mm-hmm. Was talking to her. Mm-hmm. and she had a lot more power than most people assume. Yes. And she has the time. Like the, the usual thing is, not just be nice to the people who are around the famous person, but also to make sure you give your ask there, because they're usually the ones who have more, say over the calendar Yep. And have more ready information on what's going on. it's always so interesting watching people navigate each other in the room. Yep. You'll see the same people like group up together. It's wild. It is totally wild. I, I really think that it's just work. It's not luck. Like when we're talking about collaborations, I feel like what people are looking for is a sense of belonging. the way that you trade lists, networking gives you the ability to trade that list. for you and me right now, it's showing up with like, getting on podcasts and hosting people on the podcast and doing all kinds of things. I love that you have a really big goal in 2026. Yeah. And I learned about it online. Somebody was using it as a technique. Mm-hmm. And I was like. I had done it before, but I hadn't really put it into words. And it is to borrow a big ass list. Yeah. it's the same with like getting on a podcast because you have all of the listeners now. Mm-hmm. It is getting onto somebody's newsletter. Mm-hmm. And the reason it works better is one, they've already done all of the work to gather that fan base who trust them, would follow them into Mordor, you know, and then they are saying, Hey, I met this cool person, and they want to introduce you. Yeah. That's so much better than you, like necessarily paying for a sponsored spot because mm-hmm. The, the trust is a little bit less there. People know there's money exchanged. Right. Um, it's better, it's easier than you trying to. Get all of those same fans to yourself through your own efforts, which is very tricky these days. I think that this is going to lead to new strategies that people are gonna start doing by this time next year. heavily. Yeah. Like I think any, anybody who's smart enough who's listening right now is like, maybe I should try to figure out how to do that. But, but that collab to borrow the big ass list means you have to develop a relationship. Yes. Somebody's not just gonna hand over their list to you. I, I have somebody who's sitting in my DMS right now, you're gonna know exactly who it is. And they sent me this link and they're like, Hey, can you help publicize this event that I'm throwing? And, uh, I'm like, I wanna help you, but all you do is come and ask me to help publicize an event for you. it's never a two-way street. Yeah. And also it's not the right audience. Also not the right audience for sure. Like your fan base is not her fan, no base. So it's like, no, no, no. that would be an example of not networking gone bad, but networking was placed. Yeah. and just also, you know, not knowing enough about business timelines and pipelines and funnels and stuff, which is a whole other business problem there in that situation. But, but it, it makes me think about this thing where I think she has looked at other people and is they, they, it's so lucky. It's like, no, that's not luck. That's actually years of repetition. Yeah. And some things go well and some things don't. And I think too, all the collaborations. That I've done in the past, like the best ways to build them. It's either around mutual respect for each other and for the audience. Yeah. Like, I understand your audience, I want the best for them as well, and here's how I can help them. Mm-hmm. And that you and the collaborator understand that, or friendship, which is similar to respect, obviously. Yeah. but I think when it, when it fails is yes, making it transactional a a one way street. I think if, if people are listening to this and want to, you know, how do we get on this big podcast? How do we get on this big list? You will have to come at it from what am I actually giving them? Yes. And how am I actually helping them? Because that's the way that you're gonna have to position it, which is why things like cold pitching yourself on podcasts usually fails miserably. Yeah. I'm always amazed at how many service provider businesses there are, where they're like, we will place you on podcasts. Yeah. And some of them they do because that's what PR agents are for. Yeah. I mean, a good podcast placement agency will have relationships. Yes. With podcasts and they will place you where you should belong. But there are a lot where they're just cold pitching you constantly. And I had a client many, many, many moons ago who had paid. An incredible sum of money to somebody to pitch him on podcasts. And she sure did. She went out and she pitched him and he got on a whole bunch of podcasts and not a one of those podcasts had anything to do with his ideal client. Yeah. so when I started questioning, okay, what's the return on this? What are you getting outta this? And he was so mad because he really had to think about it and recognize that maybe he had spent 10 K in the wrong place. Oof. I think like networking is such an easy way to figure your shit out before you start dumping money. Thinking that buying your way into something is gonna solve the problem because networking's gonna show you your bullshit real fast. I mean, the feedback's right in front of you. Yeah. Either they wanna talk to you. Yeah. Or you can literally see their eyes glazing over, like, how do I get out of this conversation right now? it's me laughing knowing that is my face. I can't filter it. When we were at something recently at the holidays, it wasn't a networking event, but we did bump into a whole bunch of people. And you, you were concerned about health, and so you had, um, a mask on your face just because there were a lot of people, and lots of people equals lots of germs. And there's been a nasty strain of flu going around. And it honestly super, I didn't want, I didn't the vomiting flu. No. And you're super smart. And we were walking around and we bumped into somebody and, you know, and I, I am, I'm able to like hold it together. And I was like, thank god Megan has a mask on her face. Because I was like, you wear the captions on your face. I mean, it's just a ticker tape of captions. And I, I could see your eyes. And I was like, I don't know exactly what's going on her face right now. But the other party did not. Thank goodness, because I was playing it so cool too. No girl. It was, it has been cool at all. It was brilliant though. Oh. well let's talk about, um, getting good leads because I think people think there's luck in that too. Yeah. And, It really comes, like, what is a good lead? And like you, you've mentioned where it kind of feels like if you go in not, not knowing anything, you're kind of stumbling around. You're, you're trying to figure out who this person is, what you can get. where's this conversation going? like coupling, where's this relationship going? Having to answer that question. Um, but what I always think of is like, how to get good leaves is about being curious because like we said in the last episode, you don't know this is your first time meeting this person. You know nothing about them. Mm-hmm. You don't know what they need. You don't know who they know. You don't know really where they are in their business or what problems they're having. Mm-hmm. And so I always think that like the best thing to know, the best thing to do is just actively listen. Yes. And, and most people are not trained in that. but there was this weird study that came out that said, especially like in sales calls too, if you can let the client do 80% of the talking mm-hmm. They feel like it was such a good conversation. So generally I kind of try to, as much as my A DHD self can like sit back and be like, tell me more. What about that? Yeah. How is that going? Yeah. And just kind of let them like dump it all and then be like, you know, you're like sifting through and you're like, oh wait, you know this person, or Oh, you're trying to build that. That's really interesting. Have you heard about. This thing? Or like, tell me more about that. Yeah. Conference you went to. like just before we got on the call, like we had made a new connection or I had made a new connection and they were like, posted this big event, oh, it's so exciting. And then it was like, oh, and they're posting the event to be in connection with another event. And then we were like, we didn't even know about this event Uhhuh. But like, if you're not curious to get to know people, I think it, it's really hard to know who's a good lead, who's a good collaborator because you just don't know them as a person in any way. I agree with you. I think you and I have seen so many people just talk at you. When you're at an event and you're just like, it's like word bullets coming at you. Yes. Where you're like, oh God, make it stop. Well, and generally 'cause the, the difference then, 'cause I can hear people be like, but that's what you just said. Just let them talk. But in that case, they almost have like a script. It's the script. Yes. They're like desperate. And they're like, more specifically, do you ally? Yeah. It's, it's, it's this desperate script. I need X now. Yes. Or they're like, what do you do? Can you do, or usually it's like, will you hire me? Yep. And I'm like a, I am not gonna answer that question with a drink in my hand. And at this particular event, delicious hors d'oeuvres with prosciutto. Yeah. I'm like, don't interrupt my prosciutto time. We can all tell what Mary's motivations are. They're cured meats, but, but. it makes me feel so much like that social skills, again, are such a huge factor in all of this. It's like we've all never left high school before. And as much as you hate to admit it, I know, I, I do. But likability factor matters a lot. Yeah. And so should, should I listen 80% of the time as much as possible, yes. But I think like if you have two people who are actively trying to let the other person be heard, it ends up being an equal conversation. Yes. Is what happens. And it gives a chance for a person and their authentic self to come through. Because if you're just talking and talking and talking. Like, usually it comes off a little weird and I can tell, I'm like, I know that this is not this person's personality. Yep. I know. You know, and I'll watch them talk at me and I will cut them a lot of compassionate slack. and, and I will notice all the time if I am socially carrying a conversation like I am, I am well aware that I can have a good conversation and help people feel at ease. Yeah. And if I am doing the one, doing the emotional management in that conversation, it do clock that information because if you want, if you want me to hire you for service, am I gonna have to manage that even though I'm paying you and I don't really wanna do that. I think too you can. I think it's getting that sense of, is the person, like you said in the last one, do you actually like the person? Are they interesting? Because there's things that, other events that we've gone to where you're like, I wanna leave you so badly right now, but you are not taking any of the cues, Uhhuh, and I don't know how to get out of this besides either pretending I see someone or just having to tell you, that's great. I'm gonna go talk to somebody else now. Have a nice night. thank God I haven't had to do that too much, but that has happened before where I'm like, you're just like, I'm not getting anything out of this. And it's not because we're not trying hard enough. It's like you are not socially, you're just not socially attempt. Usually what I end up saying is like, well, it was so good to meet you. Oh, I need to do that. Yeah, I have, I, I have to step over here for a moment. Like, yeah, I hope you meet who you're looking for, you know, and then I just like move on. I love that. It sounds so nice and that it also is like, oh, bless your heart. I hope you make who you're looking for because it is not me. But yeah, I don't, I don't think that when it comes to getting good leads that it's necessarily luck. I mean there no. Could you argue that there's a little luck in life? Yes, of course. Because they happen to come. They do happen to come, but, but also you're a lot more likely to statistically up your odds of meeting the right leads by showing the fuck up. In the right rooms. In the right rooms too. that's not magic. That's just work. but I think it requires being aware as well, because we've seen some people put down, they've gone to soap, many like more events than we go to three times as many events as we go to. Totally. But they don't do any introspection to be like. What was the ROI? Yeah. is the person I want, even in these rooms, because you and I have clocked that that person is not in, so not in the right room. Not in those rooms. But they go to one like almost every day and you're like, what are you doing? Somebody like starts in the morning and then afternoon, evening. No, I think too there, there's, you know, sort of that fairy godmother is never coming for that. No, no. Fairy godmother can't find you.'cause you're too busy hopping around. You don't stay still. You in the wrong place. You don't stay still long enough for fairy godmother to show up. I think that, that's always an interesting thing and I keep thinking in this moment, I know it's like a little bit off topic from luck, but I do think it's a part of luck in a weird way and there are natural ways that each of us is wired, whether it's nature, nurture, or maybe woowoo things If you are not a morning person, why would you keep going to that BNI group? Yeah. That meets at six in the morning like, you can barely function at six in the morning. Like you're not at your best. Like, why would you do that? And so I, and then, and on the opposite end, like, I think it's fair to say that if it's a happy hour event and you and I have talked about this already on some of the episodes this week, and you're like, I am no good after a certain point in the day, then maybe you just don't go to those. And, the thing is that you will notice good people, no other good people. So if you're consistently going to the places where you can shine brightest, you will meet the good people. They will inevitably know the other people. introductions get made from there. I, I think we get stuck in this. Quantity equation. Like it has to be more, more, more. And that was what we just said in the last episode. Well we did damnit damnit. There's more of the right ones though. Qualification. More, more, more. Right Ones do, as I say, not as I do. Or do as I do not as I say. Maybe in this case, I don't know. Okay. Well let's be honest though. We spent all of last year going to a horrendous amount of things. Yeah, we did. And we've been having the discussion. Yes. Just this, this week where we're like, you know what? We're gonna start to pair it back. Yeah. Because we've made some, some big decisions about these are the spaces. Mm-hmm. That we like the best, where we find the right people. And so I think you do though need to have that period of more, more, more quantity. Quantity, quantity. To find, you know, you gotta go to the one extreme to then come back to the middle. Yeah. Because probably where most people are starting, and I'm sorry if this is you, you're at the other end of the spectrum, which is like, I don't get outta my, like I don't go to any So you kind of have to like ramp up to a certain point before you can like ease a little bit. To make smarter choices. I think you have to know the boundaries of the room. Yes. you and I found that last year. Yes. There was more than one day when I was going through the calendar and I was like, dear Lord, did we do this? And we had like a, we had like a evening one and then the next day breakfast and then an evening, and then we went to something the next day and it was like, I cannot believe I lived that week. That week is insane. Yeah. And then there were coffee chats on that week on top of it. Yeah. And, and it was like, yeah, I remember absolutely hating that and knowing No cannot do that ever again. But that was a season of your business? Yes. And also it was, and it served a purpose. It served a purpose, and it was a learning curve to know this is too much. Yep. And I, I think some people will sometimes say, oh, I know that's too much. And I'm like, do you know that it's too much? Like, like if you're in a season of I need to generate some visibility and leads, maybe you do need to talk to more people than you normally would, and maybe you're gonna have a week where you're tired and you make sure that you don't do that for a second week in a row. Yeah. And maybe you don't ever do it again, but because those events happen to be happening. When they do and they're not, maybe some of them don't come around very often. Yeah. It might just be that, that week, because that's what happened that week. Yeah. It was like, I think there was like a special thing and then there was something that happens once a month and then there was something that only happens once a quarter and they just all happened to happen at the same time. And we're like, get the coffee, put the big girl pants on. We're going, we're going get in bitches. We're, we're going networking. But all of that has stacked up in layers over time, where now we walk into a room and people are like, Megan, Mary. They're like, I need to talk to you. Yeah. And you're like, oh my God. You are like, okay. Made it, I made it, mom. I I wanna move into our, our next segment too, about you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. It's, yeah, because. You know, we've kind of touched on it, on it, but like, what does reciprocity look like? and what to do when you feel that jealousy because, I think a lot of people put on success filters. Yeah. Like we have 'em on Instagram, but you see it in real life where mm-hmm. You meet somebody at an event and they're only gonna tell you the good things. I mean, you and I are a DHD, we're a little more honest. We won't reveal everything though.'cause you don't wanna look like the business is on fire. But like, we're not ones to just be like, that's good. Yeah. But we meet people who are kind of like very eager to share everything good, but in a way that's kind of like crowing about it and you're kind of like, oh, okay, just had to like drop all of those on me. Like right now, like, But I feel like it, it helps that if somebody comes out of something and says, that was the best one ever. I got everything I want, you know? is that them putting on a success filter so that they feel like it was worth it? Well, I, I think things come outta like, nobody wants to feel it look stupid and there is a lot of ego in business. Yeah. There, there's no if and or but around that because you are the business. You are the business. You are the brand for a very long time. At least in the types of businesses that we run, none of us are running like franchises or something like that. And we definitely don't do MLM. If I had less morals, I would because, because they work, I would've a cult. Uh, instead I have a fan base. You said tomato. I said tomato, I really feel like when, when we look at somebody and, and we end up wondering like, how are they getting all those clients, you have to always, realize that it's not happening in a vacuum and that the result that they're getting is directly related to their ability to maintain relationship through social skills. All of the people who, or they have some honestly like. Incredible brand and the brand does the talking for them, and the brand manages that pipeline for them. Those are usually people who are very much further along in their journey and have been doing it a long time. I would argue people who started businesses during COVID do not have that luxury. No. I don't care how much revenue that you magically generated like a unicorn for a couple of years. I know not a one who started during COVID, who hasn't been having a bit of a hiccup since End of 2024. Yeah. Through 2025 into the beginning of 2026. Everybody has them. It is the first cycle change that they're going through and I'd say hiccup or pivot. They're undergoing their first pivot. The fir first pivot. Yeah. Which is terrifying if you haven't done one before. Yes. You have to adjust something at some point. Yes. Period. Yeah. You have to. They're never fun. They never come at good times. They scared the pants off you. The market has shifted. Everything's disrupted by AI right now and it has a trickle down effect. And you're seeing the trickle down effect trickle down into spaces where people are like, oh, I'll be fine. And it's like, actually, it's coming for you. Diligence. And that's a great time to network is such a good time to network and to find out who exhibits resiliency when you talk to them, who's being curious and figuring out problems as opposed to somebody who shows up and just complains or is clearly like really mad at the world right now. And I'm like, I get it. You're mad. There's somebody, you know who I'm thinking of right now. And I'm like, wow, he is so angry these days. And, he is completely turning off his entire community. I mean, it's kind of mind boggling really. It's interesting to watch because I've only ever seen it, online. Like when memberships die. Yeah. That's slow death when you realize everyone No, he's doing it in person In real life. In real life on stage. And you're just like, wow, actually doing that with a microphone. But I think that's like the, you scratch my background, scratch hair. Like he doesn't care about the audience. He doesn't care about his people. Well that's apparent. Now it's apparent now, and I was, I, I don't think it was as apparent before unless I was just having my delusional rose colored glasses on for the longest ass time. But I did not think it was apparent before. But you tell me if it was.'cause you're better at that than me. Yeah. Oh no. Damn it, he, I got the sense that he he liked the position. It is a position of power and people like to be in a position of power where they feel like they are controlling someone else's potential success and future. And look at me, I've organized this and brought you into a room and I am your gatekeeper. So that is the, that is what I always got from it. Hot diggity dog girl. If you need a whole new business, can I birth you a whole new business on this podcast right now? Because just bring me along and I'm not the, I don't check if your date's a good one. I'll check if the, the business collab will work. Yes. Like the, the walking bullshit meter. it all comes, I mean, it just keeps coming back to like that human connection. Do you, are you willing to show up in whatever way that looks like for the person that you want to either have as a client or you want to collaborate with? because honestly. This last year, my foundations got shook a bit, with people that we associated with. And I thought the bar was on the floor and they somehow still limboed under it. Mm-hmm. You know, and I was like, all I ask is that join my mailing list. And it's somebody you know, who's like, I have sent you collaborators, I've sent you clients, I've sent you leads. And this is all I ask. And they couldn't do that. Mm-hmm. And it just became apparent of like, okay. Mm-hmm. The door shut down. Yeah. You don't get the access to the list. I'm not checking in. I'm not seeing how your business because you don't ever do it for me. You only call when you need me. You only want want want. Gate goes down. Yeah. And so the best collaborations that we found. Ones where the person genuinely cares. About your success. And your audience. Mm-hmm. Which I think is, again, I think it should be so simple, but it, it's, people's capacity to care is, is quite low. it's hard. And Well, and I'm listening to you talk and I'm just like, yes, preach, preach. And at the same time I'm also thinking on like a really practical note.'cause I can like hear someone's thoughts out there while they're listening to this and they're like, you want me to care how much about other people I know? And I've got so many things and I'm thinking it's really not that much. I mean, when you look at how much you or I do on a daily basis, I'm, I'm not. Only thinking about other people doing stuff for them. No, hell no. No, but I genuinely care if somebody has a good connection or if somebody comes, something comes across my desk and I think of them, I make sure it gets sent to them. Yeah. Am I great at sending emails on time right now? no, I am not. My email is where things go to die right now for me, but I make sure that somebody gets the message somewhere, somehow if I do that enough times for somebody because I'm gonna make the connection anyways, and if I don't put the connection together, the connector in me kind of gets a little antsy. Yes. Like it feels weird to not do it. Yes. I don't feel right. And so I will make those connections. But there does come a point where after so many connections, I'm like, and you need to learn to fish for yourself. A lot of times if somebody doesn't take action on something I do for them. Usually they, they just like continue to peter out and that's usually when like the energy pull to put them in touch with somebody. Just really just, it's like a flame that dies out. Yeah. I don't really know how else to describe it, but I know I'm not alone. I know you have this feeling too. And other connectors we talk with super connectors. Yep. Have the same feeling too, And I think it's because when you have people who are actively engaged and making change and growth that like your energies all exist kind of like in the same bubble on the same plane. And some people can't hang in that for very long, and so they don't. But yeah, I'm with you. I stopped feeling bad about it. It's hard to stop feeling bad about it though. Yes. And I, I think too, like you mentioned, like how much do we care? So I, I do know from, from my therapist, a DHD like incredible empathetic capacity. Like, I mean, I anthropomorphize everything. and I talk to all my furniture, because I care about it. But I, think for us, it's like going through the LinkedIn feed. Yeah. Not all of it, just skimming. If someone has done something amazing letting them know, if we see them at an event, I'm probably gonna then go check their social. Like, oh yeah, I haven't seen you in a while. Let me see what you're up two. And then as a follow up, be like, it was so nice to see you last night. Oh my God, I, you're opening a brick and mortar. That's amazing. They don't care that you missed it three months back. They're like, ah, you cared. Yeah. And I feel like the bar is so low that if you do just that, You would be amazed by how many people are like, oh my God, we should have a copy chat because you cared and nobody else. I'm just into a vacuum. You were the one who was like, good job gold stars. Yeah. So you could do a little experiment. think it's, I mean, I have systems. We'll talk about them later. I have a great system. I am winging it, flying by the seat of my pants, like control freak. Lemme try this, lemme try little of that. And you're like, I have it all organized in the table. I have it all organized in the table with the reminders on everything, and I'm very strategic. Teach me your way. I'm the er. Like, I'm crafty, I'm clever, I'm coming for you. I want you, you watched me do it just today where I was like, oh shit, I need to send a text message to them. I forgot to do that five days ago. Let me do that now. You know, you figure out what works. Yeah. I mean, I would say like, if you're just starting out, think of the people start with your existing network. You already have them. Who are the ones that you. Kind of wanna reconnect with And reach out. Can you make a little of your own luck? I think that's really the question. I mean, that's what you're doing, right? Because crazy, the craziest things happen again, the universe is cheeky. I have had a lot where I have checked in with somebody and they'd be like, I was just going to email you because this thing landed in my lap and I thought of you and I and you're like, oh my God, I just got a deal from that. So I would, go dope with my name. Go send out five emails this week. Yeah. I see what comes back. Well, I think that is, thank you for giving me a wonderful segue because my closing word was reciprocation. Mm. I feel like that's what that is, is you are kicking off of reciprocal. Reciprocation, yes. Process of, of back and forth. And it does not have to be these giant grand gestures, these small, thoughtful acts. Authentic. Yes. An authentic act. And that, and it is not a Oh, so good to see you. Your haircut looks so nice the other night. Can you, can you help me publicize my thing? And like, no, that's not the message. No, no, no. but other, other connectors will reward you for being a better connector. You don't have to be a super connector. No. But not checking out and, and knowing what's going on and not being like, oh my goodness. You do what now? When that person has been very public about it and it's not a secret and it's like, do you have to subscribe to everyone's newsletters? No. No. Do you have to obsessively follow them on LinkedIn? No. But if you have been so checked out, you didn't even know that that person literally moved to another state. We've got a problem. Or country. Or country. That's happened a lot recently. So a lot of people who are moving overseas right now can't say I blame 'em, but if you don't know that they moved. I think, like you mentioned what the email should not look like. This will be, you have the good people, no good people, and mine will just be Molly Peck's reach out book. Um, but if you do want to know exactly what to put in those emails, because like you said, it is reciprocal, so you come with gifts. Mm-hmm. And so the gifts are compliments. Yeah. And it might also be like, I saw this article and I thought about you. It's a weird little gift. Mm-hmm. But they will want to reciprocate and, and you can make an ask. Yeah. Or you could wait on your ask, you know, you can just send the compliments. Send that. I was thinking about you and I saw this, it was so good to Trent and, and let them gift you back. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you'd be surprised by what they will gift you back. But it's this weird feeling and it is human nature where if someone gives you a gift, you immediately are like patting your pockets and like look it around the house and be like, okay, what can I give you right now? Because this was unexpected and I don't want to just take from you, I want to give to you. A gift of words goes. So far, every single person who hits reply on my very, very wordy emails that go out every week. I always reply to them. They always send me thoughtful things and nine times outta 10, if they have a question or they wanna know about something, I will send them back a whole ass reply. And I'm like, here you go. You know? And they're so surprised. I would bet. Mm-hmm. Because that was always gonna happen with me. Mm-hmm. And they'd be like, you have the best customer service. And I was like, I was just, that was the bare minimum I thought was to reply to you. But if you're willing to, but if you're willing to give some reciprocity in that relationship, and it's not just me sending you things and you're just like, just num, nom, I'm eating all the information you're sending me. Yeah. And then, and, and you actually like send back something like this really helped, or like, I like this angle or something. Like, you have no idea how how much that helps somebody on the other end. They will. And then they were Remember you. Yeah. And that's your luck. Mm. It's not magic, it's just work. We need a line of t-shirts now. It's not magic, it's just work. It's a Debbie Downer response. Well, this brings us to the end of Premier Week, but I dare say we are off to a great start. So there will be so many more juicy topics coming up. That's it for today's episode of The Awkward Handshake. We record at Sasquatch Media Grounds in Vancouver, Washington. I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap Design and creator of PDX Spellbound, and I'm Mary. Founder of Sasquatch Media Grounds and Sensible. Woo. You'll find links to everything we mentioned, guests, resources, and ways to connect with us in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform. That's also where you'll get updates on where we're headed next, and when we're inviting listeners like you to join us for guided networking in person and online. Don't be passive. Click the links. Pick better rooms. We'll see you there.