Finding Your Yes Friend

In this episode of The Awkward Handshake, Mary and Megan unpack what a “Yes Friend” really is — and why finding one might have less to do with being social… and more to do with nervous system awareness.

What started as a conversation about building deeper friendships through networking turned into something bigger: fight, flight, freeze, and fawn responses… and how those stress patterns show up in business rooms when you’re trying to connect, stay grounded, and not accidentally agree to something you regret.

A Yes Friend isn’t just someone you like.
 It’s someone who helps you get a better outcome in the room.

And yes — it’s work. The good kind.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Why “Yes Friends” don’t just appear out of nowhere
• How fight/flight/freeze/fawn responses show up at networking events
• What it looks like to support a friend when they freeze or fawn
• The “emotional readiness weight class” idea — and why it matters
• Why some people disappear at events (and how that impacts trust)
• How to be an “exit buddy” and rescue each other from conversations gracefully
• The underrated power of small talk as social lubrication while your brain catches up
• Why networking can trigger intense emotions (even if you didn’t expect it)
• How being a connector creates compounding returns over time
• Why follow-up can save almost any awkward moment
• The truth: you can’t solve this only in your home office — you have to do reps in the real world

If you’ve ever wondered why networking feels harder than it “should,” this episode will give you a new lens — and a much kinder interpretation of your own behavior.

Keep in touch! 

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Transcript

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This is The Awkward Handshake, a podcast about networking business and what really happens in the room. We're unpacking the good, the bad, and the awkward, so you can build better connections and get paid. Let's get into it.. We are talking about our journey up the topic of fight to flight, freeze, and fawn responses. Yeah. And I feel like that is not what most people assumed would come up when you're thinking about having a yes friend as like, oh, what's my stress response? Hell no. But it is. It is. Because this turned out to be the thing when we were reflecting to make our episodes. I think both of us were surprised at how much we have found our yes friendship growing because of our ability to recognize our responses. But then the responses have informed us so much about individual things, but also how to support each other better when we're networking and it's just made networking better. Yeah, I think when I first suggested how I could help you, I think it totally took you by surprise. It took me by surprise and it like instantly deepened our friendship and the support.' cause you recognized something. I mean, you and I both do our own therapies outside of our businesses, but you saw something that day and we're gonna tell some of the story, but you were like, what is your response? And I was like, oh my goodness. She's asking me my response. And because I'd been doing so much somatic therapy, I knew my responses. And so we were able to have a coherent conversation and then I volleyed it back to you. And of course now we recognize things in each other better. And I think when people watch us do our networking, because we do get asked the question frequently, like, how do I find a yes friend like you? How do I get that? And our answer is A, they don't just sprout up like daisies out of the grass, but also B, it's work like any other relationship. Yeah. I think it is a very different type of friendship to, yeah, to get that deep. Yeah. I mean like how often do you sit down with your friends and you're like, so in your therapy sessions, how much did you cry this week? I mean, I'll be honest, a lot of the coffee dates that I did last year, I saw them spoofed online when people would be like, there's no way that you just talk about your past traumas on like a first date. And I was like. Yeah, totally did that with people on copy date, but they also had a DHD, so we quickly were just like, oh yeah. So what was your childhood like? Oh yeah, yeah. And just like, okay, so I've got this, this, it's like plain uno. And you're like, what have you got in your hand? That is the most narrow, divergent thing to do. You and I were digesting our notes for the episode. And I was saying that for me, I come into this episode, kind of from this standpoint in coaching where when we talk about things like JV partnerships or joint venture partnerships where you're trying to collaborate with other people for, you know, business growth, audience growth, we frequently will talk about playing with people who are in the same, in quotes, weight class. Mm-hmm. Because it's really difficult to be a smaller audience and pitch some, like a honking huge audience and be like, can I borrow your list? And they're like, no. And so you, you try to play within your same weight class. Now, does that always need to work that way? No, it doesn't. But it's a lot easier to grow when you kind of have that framework. And I applied that to our episode because I also think that there's an emotional readiness weight class. And I think that's how you find your yes friends. Because when I thought about you and me. even though we were on different journey paths, like mine was a, so I was heavily into somatic regulation. You have heavy talk therapy and, and it's not that we haven't either done either of those things ourselves, like mm-hmm. Swap back and forth. But you and I were both kind of in the same pacing and sort of same points of being ready to discover aspects of ourselves to make things easier in life. And I don't think that the Yes friendship would've shown up or developed the way it did. If like one of us was still in super denial about something and it's like, I'm fine, everything's fine. Like it would never have happened. No, no, no.'cause I would've read you so quickly and then been like, oh, okay. Because then I couldn't be honest. I wouldn't have told you when I was feeling anxious or scared or overwhelmed. Yeah. If you were constantly being like, I'm fine, this is great. I don't know what the problem is. Well, and then now like I feel like the room is so warm because I know A, the caption's on your face and I know also b, your pauses and responses and stuff and there's this thing you do where like when you're hesitating in your answer, you will pause extra long before you say something. And then I'm always like, how are you really feeling Megan? It's like one of your tells for me. And because we've had these conversations about like, how are you responding to this? Or how are you genuinely feeling about this right now? Or like, I'm having an off day or whatever we are able to like ask each other these things. Yeah. And I think. networking. I, we never, I never thought about it before, but it can bring up some intense emotions. Mm-hmm. You can be asked very sudden off-putting things Yeah. You can get swept up in a moment, in a conversation, in a, a deal, in a, you know. Yeah. Um, also, like we are both, small. Yeah. And, and, and female. And you can suddenly feel like you have all these walls around you because there are six foot men on every side and certain boundaries for, different people have different boundaries in terms of what they feel comfortable with. And I think having a Yes friend can just, it's like having that, the moving buddy, like from Toy Story, right? Yeah. Like somebody to look out for you that just has like, oh. You know, oh, no, no. You don't need a hug. Like she's not a hugger or hey, you know? Mm-hmm. if you were the sort that's like, don't touch me. I would be like, no, I don't do hugs. we don't do hug, like, you know, there to have your back. But I think also it's, you can have somebody step in if, we've not ever had too blatant sexual harassment. But like it, it's comforting knowing you kind of have somebody there Yes. Who can notice quickly and be like, ah, there's a little extra armor. Yeah. I think some of that armor is having a buddy. Yes. And some of the armor is just the fact that we are so hella visible that people see us regularly. Yeah. And there is this, yeah. There's a familiarity that some people take, but there's also this like. These are how these people normally respond in the room, so then they adjust accordingly. Yep. I love that you're talking about Exit Buddy.'cause I keep thinking about that scene. I cannot get it out of my head right now from Finding Nemo where the sea turtles are like, do you have your exit buddy? Let's just see us doing that. And we are the exit buddies. Yeah.'cause we see each other stuck in a conversation. Yes. We will come over and be like, oh, you wanted to talk to so and so? Come on. I see that they're open. I'm also thinking in this moment that when we are in a room and we have split in that room. Yeah. I think the reason why I just realized this right now, I think one of the reasons why you as a yes run work so well for me is because you don't abandon me in the room. Like we have gone to events with other people and they just disappear and they go and it's almost like they didn't even come here with you and, and not that they're not being friendly or whatever, but they're just very invested in themselves You and I always kinda keep like half an eye cocked on the other. Yep. And I will watch you from the other side of the room. And I'm like, is she okay? Where's Megan? Like, I look out for you like, where's your exit body? Like I keep an eye because you and I will notice each other when it's like, I can see the captions running across your face, across the room, and I'm like. that's not going well. I need to go over and help her. And that has happened a couple times where yeah, like the conversation's wrapping up and I'm like, oh, so nice. And then I'll just like side on over and I'm like, how you doing? And then we'll just be like, get me out of this. My need to work on the captions. No, I think they're brilliant. honesty well we have, a main idea to help folks and it is how do we help each other have the best outcome? And so in that vein of do you go into a networking event with a yes friend? And are you thinking about the other person also having a best outcome or are you just really wrapped up in your own shit? And I don't know that one or the other is necessarily better or worse, but I think you need to know who you are because I think sometimes people don't wanna be alone in their networking, but when push comes to shove, you have to be aware of that for yourself because like if you and I had been going out to events and neither of us was thinking about the best outcome for each other, we would never have continued doing things. And I wonder if that's like a nice litmus test for someone to ask themselves. Yeah. Like, how come people don't come out with me? And it's like, well maybe you abandon them at events. Like you might not mean to, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. Yeah.'cause I don't know about you, but certainly like, once we split, it's almost like I am, I don't wanna say networking for both of us, but I know who you are looking for. Mm-hmm. And if that's the way a conversation goes mm-hmm. It's still a value, uh, to me to tell somebody like, oh, you wanna know about podcasting? Here's Mary. Let me go introduce you because I have now introduced them to you and made a valuable connection they'll still come back to me for other Oh, completely things. Completely. Um, but I'm not like solely focusing on what you need and forgetting myself, but it, it almost. It makes it easier because kind of like going back to those UNO cards, like I now have like more UNO cards Yeah. To talk about. I love that you put it that way because I'm thinking about times where, it's a busy event, especially you have told me on the car ride home, oh my goodness, I met this person. Maybe they had to leave early, whatever. And you're like, I need to send an email introduction, or you and I will meet someone. And then they're like, oh my goodness, there's this person I need you to meet. And we're like, this is not my person. I need to make an email introduction to bag. And it's a connector thing. Yep. To do. Yes, to do that. And you and I have established we are natural connectors, but I think like the people who are struggling to master a flight, flight, freeze response, or finding a yes friend. it is a development of that connector behavior. And I don't think that people are just born natural connectors. I think it's a skill that you develop and when you start getting the return payback by being a connector, you wanna be more of a connector. I am convinced that most people have not had that experience yet. And so they don't think to do it because they're like, well, I still need my connection. I need, I need Yep. And they haven't had that, compounding interest growth that happens when you introduce people, which you and I have had. Yep. I hadn't thought about that. It was not in our notes. It was not in our notes. It just came to me. The best outcome really started when you recognized my freeze response. In a group that was turning sour, shall we say. And you saw the events happen and later in a private moment, you asked me about it and you were like, I think the first thing that you noticed where you were like, there's a masking behavior going on. Mm-hmm. And it was sort of this like, um, did you mean for that to happen? And I was like, no, no, I did not. And then you asked me and you were like, what is your response? And I was like, why? In fact, I know my response. My response is to freeze. which is what I did in that moment. And then, events transpired and I left the room. And I didn't mean to leave the room. Yeah. I just, but I did. Yep. And then, my other response will be to Fawn. I don't know that I fawn as often as I see you do, but because I know it, I recognize it. But like, it was so valuable when you asked me that question because then we asked each other like, okay, like what do you need in those moments? And I remember you said like, okay, now that I know that. In the future, I'm gonna buy you some time if I'm able to. Mm-hmm. I will buy you some time and I will ask you, Mary, how do you feel about that right now? And I was like, oh my God, you can do that. this sounds amazing. Like nobody has ever offered to help in that way before. I watched it happen and as you said, my bullshit meters, one of the most finely tuned in the world, superpower. And I, I saw what happened and I was like, that doesn't seem like normal Mary behavior. Something happened there. and then when I knew that that was your response, it was like, oh, well I don't want you to be put into situations. You don't want to be put into. Just because you need a moment for your brain to stop being like, the heart rate monitor, you know, just be like, exactly. That's what your brain does. Your brain literally just, it goes offline. It just goes offline, and you cannot put two words together. and it was like, well, that's easy if Mary just needs a moment to come back. But it is hard to advocate for yourself in that period of time. Yeah. Which is why I've done it too. You just kind of be like, like I'll just, no resistance put up because you don't know what just happened. If all I have to do is ask how are you feeling? Is that what you really wanna do? As a way of like, I'll be the, I'll be the bitch in the room who's like, Mary, is that what you really wanna do? that was just so easy. And it was like, if that gets you. A deal if that gets you A client. or if that just prevents somebody from taking advantage of you. It was like, that's such an easy lift on my part that Yeah, why wouldn't I offer that? Yeah. it's such a beautiful thing to do for someone else. you and I have also talked about your response, which is also a freeze response, but you and I freeze differently, I think. Yeah, I think so too. Like my bullshit meter is not nearly as fine tuned as years, so I feel like I'm exceptionally slow to get to things. But if there's one thing I can do really well is I can water cooler small talk for hours until I see your, like brain meter go from rear to like beep, beep beep. And I'm like, she's back. Yeah. So I have freeze and fawn. And I always feel like there's two wolves inside me. And one is like, play dead. And the other is like, let's give them everything that they want. And so in those moments, and we've been to events where people, like I am explaining what I do and somebody's interested, but as in like, oh, could you, well, could you do this? And it's like the equal amounts of like, be, and like, I guess how much would I charge for that? what would that even look like? Do I wanna do that? Is it gonna undermine my authority? Like, but I kinda want this money. Like, oh, what should I do? What should I do? And then you realize like, I am not saying anything. And the silence has gone on way too long. And so what generally then comes out is like, yeah, sure. And then I walk out later and I'm like. What did I just do? I'm in so much trouble. Well, one of the things that we do do with a fawn response is we digest our notes in the car ride home.'cause we'd like to carpool the things. Yeah. And like this happened not too long ago. Yep. In, in a group. And I don't, I'm gonna be honest, I don't know that I would've recognized it in the moment because maybe my bullshit meter just isn't so finely tuned. But also, I think there's a big part of me that's like, who am I to say Megan don't offer that. You know? Yeah. And, but I think that to process the Fawn response afterward, you and I remember had this conversation about how to respond to them in the follow up. And it was like, oh, well frame it like this instead and find out. And you did. And boy did you get data back that was super useful. And, and you know, spoiler, the deal wasn't right. It didn't go through. But like, thank God, because. You didn't end up continuing to feel like, oh no, I fucked up. Like I said yes to something and then like, you know, it was this weird Yeah. And so it's something I'm trying to work on, but it, it was definitely like in person, like literal dear fawning an email wolf, no, you can't have it. Like, this is not what I think the fawning for me also is like the, the confidence gets knocked. Yeah. And so it is hard to just be like, no. or to come up with that nice response. That is a, polite, that's not what I offer. I don't do that. so I have to do it in email, which at least then stops. Like I don't end up doing what I don't want to do. It's not the perfect response.'cause I, I do think perhaps from there end, there's a bit of whiplash. I'm like, she's still compliant and then not compliant. but after that, I kind of told you, I was like, it helps me to have somebody either fill in for small talk While my brain is trying to be like, let's actually try to calculate what this thing is.'cause it, it's not smart enough to be like, let's get on a coffee chat later. Like, it can't somehow it a, DHD it wants to like solve the puzzle right now. What does this even look like? but I think also having somebody, if, if you have all those offers and you've shared what you do, kind of like how I'm like, is that what you really wanna do, Mary? To be like, Hmm, that's not what you currently do. Megan, is that something that you have considered offering? Mm-hmm. Again, to kind of be that little voice, to be like. Oh no. No, I don't. You're right. I don't, yeah. I think too, like they, you get an opportunity to take the pressure off a little bit. Yes. Because sometimes people might ask you things where you're like, wow, I never considered that before. and to have a moment of like, I think I need to think about that a little bit. Yes. But it does help having a wing friend along who, while you are doing the quizzical look into the upper left or right corner and you're like, do I do that? Do I wanna do that? And like all the thoughts are flooding your brain. Yeah. And to have somebody else there just to help socialize the moment. So the other person's not just staring at you having some internal dialogue that they're not a part of. And Yes. Like that. I think that is the useful part. Sometimes we've like gotten to know people and talk to them and, found out that they're really delightful and they're not trying to put the pressure on anything. They're just, humans are curious and like, yes, they wanna know, oh, could you do that? Could you do that? I think that my role in Yes friending for you, I know that my superpower is not The bullshit meter magical powers that you have. But it is like, I am the queen of small talk. I can small talk people, and they're like, that was the best conversation I had. And I'm like, we talked about nothing. But I will make you feel like a million bucks in that conversation because Yep. You deserve attention and respect and mm-hmm. I'm just getting to know you. Like we're not, you know, the, the neurodivergence in me would love to dive into what's the meaning of life, you know? Yeah. What do you, what's the legacy you wanna live behind, but in a super fucking loud room? No, I can't. No. Not today. Not here. No, no. We're gonna talk about where you got your shoes. Yes. Yes. We have done that. We have done that. Everyone knows how much I love Costco. Everyone knows. No regrets. I mean, part of me, I was wondering too, like. about the people who, who ask those questions for the things that make us freeze or fawn, you know, sometimes it is a miscommunication, like you said, where they, they're just genuinely curious. There is no, no weight behind it. No. Like, I only want to work with you in this capacity. Yeah. But the other part of my brain was wondering if, if, um, if women get asked those questions more. Oh, that is interesting. I do, you know, that's interesting. That is so interesting that you ask this because sometimes we found that your, your expertise is much more questioned as a woman, even by other women. Like we will Oh, very much. Yeah. Yeah. Because most people think that your recording studio. Is like a closet Yes. In your house meanwhile, and you got one little mic. Meanwhile it's like a 2000 square foot space with multiple rooms, with multiple mics. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it can tell you a lot about who you're dealing with in the kind of assumptions that they come in with, which could inform you about where you wanna place them. Yeah. In your preference of who you work with or who you network with. Because some people, like in some instances where I've like explained like what fab is about, like mm-hmm. We, I, you've been there, like people have actively tried to like, make everything much smaller. Like for what I want from you, is this even something you do? I've been thinking about this thing and it's very specific, but so, so, so, so, so small and can we like cut the pennies even more? I am having such a mind explode moment. I'm sorry for, this was not in our notes and I'm having a mind explode moment right now.' cause I'm thinking back to tons of networking with you without you the before Megan Times current Megan Times. And the Dark Ages. The dark ages of networking. And I am thinking about interactions and I'm realizing how much that pattern is so prevalent and I'm, I am wondering if it is a thing that women experience. I'm sure we could ask some of our men folks to come on and tell us answers to that. Because I wanna know what goes on in their head. I am so curious. I wanna know. Yeah. Like, are you just thinking about the Roman Empire or are you thinking about networking in this moment? But I do, I do wonder if, like when you explain what you do as a woman or a female identifying person, if it gets minimized somehow Yeah. by any one of any gender identity, because it's how we're trained, maybe socialized. Mm-hmm. Oh, that is juicy. I know. And also terrible, but oh my God, why didn't I become, we can take a poll, like Totally. Take a poll, email us. And that is how Mary went to get a PhD in sociology. When you talk about those responses in terms of networking, are those responses the like, natural response to being minimized? Oh, I really, really wonder now, now I'm curious 'cause we'll go out and do my networking events. Yeah. And, and wondering if I sit and stand in rooms differently. My other question too is, do you think you've seen all the responses with myself, in other people? Oh, I know. I've seen fight. Yeah. People get kind of antagonistic. That's always weird. My favorite now that I have a studio is, oh, I have a studio. And I'm like, great buddy. I'm so excited for you. you are not my competition. I hate to break it to you, but you're not my competition. But it's funny when it comes up and you're just like, oh, okay. I'm wondering if Flight makes it in the room. I think yes. And I also think we've seen a lot of people who come and go very quickly. Yeah. We've seen a lot of people, they leave early, some of them do it elegantly. Yes. And some of them, they just disappear. Yep. And you see them literally fly out the room. Yeah. Especially on big events. Yeah. You can see people leave. So we've seen fight, we've seen flight, freeze. I mean, well, two of us freeze, well we do right now, so duh, we'll represent, freeze, and then Fawn. Yeah. I do think we see a lot of fawning Yep. In the conversations. Well, 'cause we wanna please people. Yes. and I think that when there are people who are known in a room to have something that you want, people will fawn over them like crazy. Yep. And I, I do see that frequently. Like it could be somebody who's notable or somebody that everyone knows, has certain resources or connections, especially people who have money. Yes. Yeah. Big time. Big time. But they do it poorly. Yeah. It starts to look desperate, I think fawning shows up as desperation. Mm. Yeah. Not always, but. Frequently, and you have lived in LA where, you know, any time you go out there are celebrities and I don't imagine you're the type to like, go on over them. And I know from, that's trained out of me. Yeah. And I know from me it's like a respect issue, which we've talked about in other podcast episodes. But like, I once went to Craftcation and one of the speakers was Jenny Hart, uh, um, of Sublime Stitch. Yeah. And I was running an embroidery business and I was like, oh my God. Like this is, like, this is our queen right here. Her stuff is amazing. Yeah. but she was always like, surrounded and I'm like, I'm not gonna, This is not the place to do it. I'll email her, like I'll keep an eye out. Mm-hmm. But like, this is not the time to do it. It was opening night. and she'd just given like her speech and she actually came over to me that night. Was like, oh my God, are you Megan Eckman? I was like, oh my God, Jenny Hard knows my name. And she's like, could we have a meeting while we're here?'cause I wanna talk to you. And I was like, okay. Oh, you hit the jackpot. I did. Yeah. Well, but then we went to the bar and then I have such a low tolerance and I was like, I can't let Jenny know I'm drunk right now and we're making a business deal and I have to like not fall off my stool. Yeah. From my one Moscow mule. But, yeah, sometimes it's, it's better to not fawn so badly. Also, I think any of us who fawn at any point, thank God the mocktail culture has gotten so prevalent. Yes. But I've had that same experience where I'm like, oh no. Yes. And you know, you're in so much trouble. Oh God. And then in my industries, they tend to be very male, dominated and. Usually, not always, but usually dudes can drink more than I can And there's a lot of women who can drink a lot more than I can too. And I don't know, maybe it's age, but somewhere along the way I just stopped feeling bad about it. And I'm like, I will take a soda water with lime. If I can order a drink ahead of time, I will do it. And I will be like, I will take a soda water with lime. And everyone thinks you're drinking like a gin and tonic. And I love me, a good gin and tonic. But when Mary has one drink in her, she becomes anybody's. And if Mary gets two drinks in her, she becomes everybody's. So, no, Mary's not gonna be making back tips on a poll in the middle of a networking event. Like, I mean, it could, I could, could be very entertaining. That's how you get paid for networking The secret to life. But I'm, we're done. This is not how I thought the episode was gonna go. alright, so we're, we're asking a series of questions this week just to help everyone else also evaluate for themselves and possibly with somebody who might be becoming your yes friend. Or maybe you want them to become your yes friend. But we're asking how do you have this talk that we're describing with your Yes. Friends. So maybe there is somebody you really enjoy hanging out with, maybe you guys see each other regularly. You might not carpool to events the way you and I do. Mm-hmm. But you're like, yeah, I'm gonna see you there. We get messages. Are you gonna be there? I wanna see you there. Yeah. And so I can, I only imagine how many of those messages fly around before some of our events. figuring out how to have that talk is important. it's gonna require vulnerability, trust. Yeah. you're gonna have to get deep with people. You're just gonna have to, I love that you had some really good points about, the way that we go deep. Yeah. I mean, I think it comes with having a DHD. Yeah. Like. I was interviewed for podcasts recently and they were like, what's off limits? And I was like, girl, I got a D adhd. Nothing is off limits because there are no boundaries. so it was not weird Yeah. For me to ask you the question. from my standpoint, but I also recognized, for some people, like I was raised in a family where like, you don't show weakness. it's like you don't wanna be the injured deer in the forest, right. So like, you just pretend. I can understand that for a lot of people, like this is not a normal question. I would assume that most people, even with their best friends have never had this conversation. Oh, I dare say you are correct, because it's really weird. Mm-hmm. But also I think it's a lot of people who grow up. Maybe it's just like our generation range here. Mm-hmm. But I am old enough that the commercials at 10:00 PM do you know where your kids are? Was still coming on the tv. And I grew up in that era and there is sort of this toughness. I mean, my sister and friends much older Gen X, cause I was born like on the sunset of Gen X and the dawn of millennials. And, I watched them, I think more go through. This like over self-reliance. they, like, I learned from them how to forage in life, but it was not really fully expected of me and for very long. So I do think that our age ranges, like we're still experiencing that and like that whole toughness thing is I suspect shared by a lot of people. Yeah. you know, I just wanna acknowledge like, this is a difficult conversation for, I would assume the majority of people. I think. So it was, I mean, when you brought it up, it was this little moment of like, we're gonna talk about this. I was like, she's asking me a deep question and it was just like, oh, I'm gonna be vulnerable in this moment. But a vulnerable thing had happened and you had witnessed and it just was natural But I think that also, okay. I think it goes back to emotional readiness weight class. Yeah. Because if you hadn't done the therapy you've done, and I hadn't done the therapy I had done, we could never have matched that and had that interaction. Mm-hmm. think there are a lot more people who are in the same emotional readiness weight class as you and me, and they are mismatched with people who are still in like a lightweight class. Yep. And they're like, welcome. That's not working. It's like, yeah, you're not gonna have that conversation with someone who's like, everything's fine, I'm fine. And you're like, well, really, how are you? And they're like, great. And you're like, okay, I'm just gonna go over here now. I'm gonna have a real Moscow mule now. Yeah. I need one of those. So I, I think like that might be a thing. Yeah. But as you put in the notes like It is private a conversation. The conversation is completely private and in our day and age of trying to showcase, like, look at what I'm working on, this is not one of those things. No. Like you and I, I think have told this story to a few people, not many. Mm-hmm. This is probably the most people who are ever gonna hear it. Now that we're recording it on a mic but it was, but it was a very, very private moment. And we continue to have those kinds of private, this is just safe space time for you and me to talk and talk it out and Yeah. Figure things out and Yeah. You, you need, you need that. Like, nobody's gonna hear us in a car driving on eastbound I 84 back to 2 0 5 North. Yeah. Like, they're not going to hear us in the car and we don't want them to, we need a minute Yeah. To talk about how did that event go? What responses came up? How can we improve this? Yeah. Did that help you? Yeah. You know, was it enough? Was it not enough? What sign did I miss? What was weird about it? It was hell weird. What are you gonna do next time to not be so weird? I'm not gonna go back to that event sometimes. yeah, I was trying to figure out like, are there fun ways to do it? I don't know. Maybe, but I think our carpool rides are weirdly very fun. Yeah. I'm wondering now, because I asked you the dinosaur question and I asked that question too, the, what is your stress response? Is that the new deeper question? I feel the weirdest person. Let's just ask these questions. you know, we could ask that at a future networking event. Oh God. That would be good. Oh no. It's gonna turn into therapy time if we did it. Yeah. With people going as an icebreaker, it would take too long. Well, you and I were talking about some of our paid workshops before we hit record, and maybe that's, maybe that's there for the masterminds or instead of, or in addition to pronouns, stickers, you also get your, your response, oh, what an amazing thing. And you can put like a color dot for what your, what your response type is. Yeah. It doesn't really help other people though. Yeah. But like, what if your response is freeze and you know it and someone's across from you and they're like, this conversation is so awkward right now. And then you have the opportunity to see that in them. Yeah. And maybe have a little more grace for them. That's true. So that you know how people get impatient in conversations. Because they're just like, I need things right now. I need to get paid. And they're like, this conversation is terrible. And it's like, but that person is just having a freeze moment. They need to come back online and for all you know, they could be the most amazing contact for you. They have everything you need. Yeah. Grace. Yeah. All right. The next question is, what if I don't know which one of these responses I have, which was what I was thinking in the back of my mind where you're like, this put stickers on the name tags. this is definitely a personal growth thing. Getting to know yourself. As they say, big quotes on they entrepreneurship will be the best self-development course you will ever take. I feel like this is really the crux of all of it. I like that you, you have very practical advice as always. Yeah. So, ' cause I had to think about what I, I wasn't as if you don't know, You can watch yourself for a while and see what do you do, not just in networking events, but other places. So I would love to have a fight response. I would, I have a black belt. I would love to have a fight response. I know though that the one time I was filling gas and got groped, I have a freeze response. And I'm pissed about it. Because I would love instead to have a fight response because I know what to do with that. and so, I think it's having to watch yourself, it's going back through like what were my most uncomfortable moments and what did I, what do I do? What is my, if confronted with this? And you can simulate it in your mind. Yeah. I would even say if you, you have friends or a spouse, ask them. They might know more than you. Yeah. What if somebody doesn't have somebody that they can ask? Mm. Because I think that that is a problem for a lot of people because I think it's watching yourself. Yeah. well, and then doing the reps you gotta get out there. yeah. So that you can figure it out. Yes. I also figured out it was the freeze response when I nearly chopped off my finger and my husband had to get me to the emergency room, serious story, because I do not do well in a crisis I should with A DHD, but with the freeze response, no. Yeah. I have a combination response. I know from past trauma where it's very interpersonal, I have a freeze response, which is what happened in that situation. Mm-hmm. But on a more macro level in life, I think I have a. Well, I, I can, I know when I have a flight response and I'm like, I wanna get outta here. But I also have a really strong fight response. Like a current political climate has been a major fight response right now, as you know. And, and I'm like, I'm gonna take action. I'm gonna do all these things. And you know, and sometimes I do. I think that figuring out the nuance of Yeah. When you have these, because I, I'm kind of wondering as I think aloud on the microphone with you that I'm wondering if people go into networking events for business and maybe don't realize that in that networking environment they have one type of response. Yeah. But at home with their spouse or a significant other or family, they have a different kind of response. And when they are working with a client, they have a different kind of response. Mm-hmm. Like, we're complex people. It's not just one or the other. Because even you were mentioning multiples and I, I think probably levers. no. How does somebody put, uh, oven dials? Oh, yeah. For, for neurodivergence? Yeah. You're like, we all have the dials, but they're all a little different. They're all different settings. Mm-hmm. And so you probably have all of them. Yeah. But in different settings, different dials are turned. Yeah. cause I can think of times I've totally fawne Yeah. Like there are people who have reach and resources and all kinds of things right now and I'm like really checking my fawn response on those. Yeah. Because I'm like, this is not how peers interact with other peers. and I do, think in a networking sense, if somebody notices they have a fawn response, I think it's usually, probably has to do with some money. Yes. And leads. Yep. And you want something from that person. And you're scared of losing it. Mm-hmm. So why would you not acquiesce to everything? But it doesn't put you in a good position for working with them.' cause you are now below them. You're subservient. Yep. But you can do the follow up email. You can totally do the follow the comes back down. The magic is in the follow up email. We do have an episode about follow up. Yes. Because you are the master of follow ups. You really are. Thank you. Like you have a whole system. I am forever the Chaos Demon. I'm like, oh shit, I have to email them back. And you're like, I had it all planned out. And I'm like, oh, what's it like to be so organized? Yeah. Says the systems coach. I think too for all of these, you know, like you didn't screw it up. No. Also, none of these are bad. No. Let's just put that we all have it. It's just good to know what you have. one is not better than the other. If you have one of these responses during a networking event, again, the follow up saves everything. Yeah. They talk to so many people. They were probably drinking, they probably don't remember. Whatever you agreed to if you were fawning. And you just present a different, we're we're this now. there's so much more to a networking interaction other than that one interaction. Yeah. And I think that might be the biggest takeaway is like, like you're saying, nobody is perfectly regulated and then you're adjusting for somebody else on the other side of this conversation who was also not perfectly regulated. So you're like, everyone's constantly adjusting all the time. So like, just give yourself a fricking hall pass and like, yeah. Chill out. You know? Yeah. Maybe, maybe that helps lighten the load a little bit. I love that you wanted to talk about the next question to reflect on, can you overcome your response, which is kind of what we're talking about. Yes. Already. it is learning to ground yourself, that that really is like the hook of the whole thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because when I used to teach and do juujitsu, you have learned responses and certain fight systems that you can learn, are built on those pre-built, Pre-programmed, things. Krav Maga is built on natural human reactions to certain aggressions being done to you, and they say, we can't pre, we can't override that. We're gonna just build on it. I think that all of this is like, it's not inherently a bad thing to have one of these. It is good to know which one you have and then what it's like muscle memory and you're gonna have to have, you were like joking.'cause I'm like, this is exposure therapy. Like you're gonna kind of have to test it out. See if I've got freeze, you know what? Do some weird experiments. See how long it takes you to get back online. does it get faster? I don't know. I haven't fully tested that. It'd be cool if it did or like, can you come up with a phrase that you're able to say, can you get a friend to help you in that instance? so funny you should say that because. If you have support and you have a friend, yes. They can mirror things back to you. You looked like this. oh no, you went after that person. So hard. I always love it when you and I are both like equally to each other. Like, girl, you should have seen your face. And I'm always like, I thought I had a neutral. I was like, I was, I was so neutral. No, no, you were not. But to what you said about essentially exposure therapy. Yeah. Having that person as an accountability partner, kinda like going to the gym helps you don't avoid dealing with your shit in the real world. Mm-hmm. And that's really one of the big benefits of a yes friend. Even I've had off days, we have tired days. Yep. All the things. And if I know you're. Expecting to go to this event and we plan for it, I'm not gonna back out. And I think like that is a great question for any individual to ask, because if you're already pooping out on a friend before you even head out the door there's, there's some real big data right there that could be a flight response where you're like, yeah, and I'm gonna run now before it even starts. Oh, how many people do we know who said, yeah, yeah. I wanna go. And then, oh, completely. And then they're like, ah, actually yeah, I think I'm gonna stay at home and some gummies. Yeah. And you're like, okay. And then they're like, how was it, how was it? I'm so sad I missed it, Uhhuh. And it's like, well, you could have come and we would've, we would've supported, you've completely supported you through that. Mm-hmm. But that is. In Mary's broken record framework, a therapy problem. And you know, and I think that's where this conversation really does get into that like center of the Venn diagram between business problem solving and therapy problem solving. But the one thing that I really feel like when you're trying to overcome your response is it's just not something that you can ever solve, hypothetically alone in your home office. You have to get out there, like you were saying. And you have to do it. You have to because you can't trigger it. No. Just by running through the mental simulation because you're, it is literally like hardwired mm-hmm. Into your body. Yes. And so you, you can't, you, you can do this for other. For muscle memory. Yeah. Thinking it is the same as doing it. So like when I was practicing for my black belt. Yeah. It's just running simulations in your head. That's the same as doing it on the mat. Oddly enough, you can't do it for this. No. Because there's an external factor when you're running the simulation of your like katas or whatever. Mm-hmm. On the mat, it's you and you. Yeah. But this involves you and this, this wildly chaotic variable. Yeah. And there's no other way to account for that variable other than to be with the variable. I do think, like with the mental health needs that we're also abundantly aware of right now, it's, it's an important thing to bring up and to talk about compassionately and be like, you're not broken, you're, you're not failing at something. But you need, do need to figure out like what tools or what support do I need that might fall outside of business to help me, like do this thing if it's getting in the way. Mm-hmm. Or you know, and if you can't, it's like, okay, maybe business is not the thing, you know? Yeah. Because in business you have to go create your pipeline and that's where networking comes in and you know, and that's why JOB jobs exist and there's nothing wrong with that. Mm-hmm. If you do a bridge job for a few years while you solve this because you're like, ah, this was the thing holding me back. Yeah. Like, how much more valuable will the next thing be because you finally did take steps. How much easier and so much easier. Like, why torture yourself? No reason. Unless you're a masochist. Yeah. But then you would also just go to the event. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I wanna be uncomfortable. I live for the discomfort. I'm sure there's somebody listening. They're like, I kind of do. And I'm like, I love your kink for you. Yeah. It's great for you. Well, I told you before we hit record, I was like, it just kind of comes down to there's always like the yogi saying where it's like you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. And that's what it just reps Yes. But uncomfortable. But the uncomfortability should not be painful in a way that is destroying your ability to function. No. Or deeper mental health or anything like that. So, no. And you should be making headway. Like there should be change uhhuh. If it's just like constant discomfort Yeah. That is just painfully discomforting then. Nope, nope, nope. You've done it wrong. Stop. Drop and roll. Stop. Drop and roll. Lay on the floor with me for a moment. Yeah, I think like this whole episode is really gonna show folks how ready they are for the audience they want. I was telling you before we hit record, that, in my coaching practice over the years, that I have worked with people who want lists and conversion rates from those lists. And, what we're talking about with this is a process of unmasking. And if you can't unmask for your yes friend, then your audience isn't gonna show up for you either, because you have to be able to relate to those people in a way that helps them feel safe so that they can say yes to paying you for the thing that you do. And I sometimes wonder if the reason why people aren't getting paid. is not necessarily always related to economic things. I mean, that is a very big part of it, but when we talk about marketing and people are trying to crack their marketing code so much mm-hmm. How much of that is because of things like this? Oh, that's a lot. I would say a lot. Mm-hmm. I mean, I know that it's something that I recognize in me. Yeah. absolutely. You're blocking yourself. Oh, I think I spent two years doing that. Mm-hmm. I made a very good door and not a window, and I couldn't figure out how to open the door. Yeah. You're like damnit a spare gate every time. I think for me, all of this, when I asked you that question, you know, the first time. Uh, I think it boils down to like, how much do you trust your friends Yeah. And everybody's different, And, and I think I'll be very curious if people go out and have these conversations and like what comes back you get to celebrate and go deeper Or how many people just brush it off and you suddenly are like, oh no, oh no, I'm in the heavy weight class. Like Yeah. And I'm with all the feather weights, what am I gonna do? because I, I think, I, I know I, I have, I have weird conversations with this all the time with, with you, with my husband. Those probably the two people that I go deepest with on just anything and everything. and I think some people trust very easily. Another people like me, it takes a very long time to want to, to open that. Yeah. Uh, to not get hurt. but also like you are then relying on somebody, or at least saying I would be open Yeah. To some help and relying on you. And that, that's a big thing. That's a really big thing. I mean, we're all adults here. We've all been through things where we've had our trust. Some days, some days it's questionable, but we've all lived through life experiences where trust has been completely broken. Mm-hmm. Or eroded. I think that knowing the response, so in the business context, in the context of networking, knowing your response type helps you not get stuck like. A wheel stuck in the mud and you can't move the vehicle forward anymore. Yeah. And, and you need an assist and you keep fighting people off or you keep Yes. Running, you keep running. And it's like you need your yes friend or a team of Yes friends to give you an assist and push you out of the mud so you can get back on the road. And, sometimes that means maybe you just gotta get out of the car for a minute and like breathe for a second and like, just stop, trying to make it happen so hard. But when you're in a season, which we have seen a lot in the last couple of years, where the economy is weird and the market is shifting. Mm-hmm. And your own offers have changed dramatically for some people. Yeah. Not everybody, but some people. And you get into a space of like, oh shit, I need to make things happen. It's like, yeah. Totally know that feeling. Yeah. Completely respect that feeling. But if your response type is getting in the way Then you go to these networking events 'cause you're like, I need to meet new pipeline. And you're like, and everyone's like, oh, do it. Yeah. You completely block yourself It's the most frustrating thing in the world. It's also frustrating to watch it when you see it happen. Oh yeah. Because we have seen, we have been watching it happen with people. And I do think that the reason why you and I have gotten so far in this way is because we formed what we call a Yes friendship. And we want others to uhhuh. It is very special. We cannot manufacture it. There's no follow this formula to do it. No. But it's really the basis of doing the whole podcast. Yeah. I hope other people get to make one. I know. I hope that they like listen to us and just by hearing us. Figure shit out on a microphone that they're like, oh, okay. I can try doing that too. Yeah. I mean, you and I have tried to Yes, friend. I would say with other people. Yes. But thanks to you asking me what my favorite dinosaur was. Sure. Did work out great. So just find the unhinged A DHD first. That's a key to life. You'll never be bored. That's it for today's episode of The Awkward Handshake. We record at Sasquatch Media Grounds in Vancouver, Washington. I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap Design and creator of PDX Spellbound, and I'm Mary. Founder of Sasquatch Media Grounds and Sensible. Woo. You'll find links to everything we mentioned, guests, resources, and ways to connect with us in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform. That's also where you'll get updates on where we're headed next, and when we're inviting listeners like you to join us for guided networking in person and online. Don't be passive. Click the links. Pick better rooms. We'll see you there.