Unlock Collective Built Portland’s Most Trusted Queer Network

What does it actually take to build a community where people feel safe enough to show up as themselves?

In this episode of The Awkward Handshake, we sit down with Polly Bilchuk and Oliver Dinero, the founders of Unlock Collective, to talk about how they’ve built one of Portland’s most trusted queer networking spaces.

This isn’t just about hosting events. It’s about designing a room with intention—who it’s for, how it feels, and what people are allowed to bring with them when they walk through the door.

We talk about how Unlock Collective came to life, why their quarterly format works, and what it really takes to create a space where connection isn’t forced… but it does happen.

If you’ve ever walked into a networking event and thought, “this isn’t for me…”
This episode shows what it looks like when it finally is.

In this episode, we talk about:

•  How Unlock Collective got started and why it fills a real gap in Portland 
•  What makes a queer-centered networking space feel different 
•  Why intentional design matters more than just “getting people in a room” 
•  The power of hosting quarterly events instead of constant meetups 
•  How to create a space that feels safe, welcoming, and real
•  Why community-building requires boundaries—not just openness 
•  What it means to build trust over time (and why that’s the real goal) 

Meet the Guests

Polly Bilchuk + Oliver Dinero

Co-founders of Unlock Collective, bringing vision, structure, and thoughtful design to community experiences.

About Unlock Collective

Unlock Collective is a Portland-based queer networking community focused on creating intentional, welcoming spaces for connection.

Their events are designed to feel different (less transactional, more human) with a focus on trust, safety, and real conversation.

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Transcript

0:00

This is The Awkward Handshake, a podcast about networking business and what really happens in the room. We're unpacking the good, the bad, and the awkward, so you can build better connections and get paid. Let's get into it. we got our friends, Polly and Oliver to join us. They have , I think, the most visible queer niche community meetup that. At least we've ever attended. Yeah. That's in town here in Portland. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean they draw a pretty large crowd. Yes. And we had noticed how special it is because there's so many, first of all, repeat people, but they also have relationships with different people around town. And the really, really fascinating part is they only do it quarterly. And people are so excited to be there. the energy's a little different. It's like people are actually friends. It is a truly safe space. Through intentional design, which we're going to hear about and they explain brilliantly in this episode. And the other thing that they explained brilliantly in this episode was around respectfulness for the queer experience. And I think what's gonna be interesting for our listeners for this episode is that that conversation applies not just to the allies, but also to the queer community. Yeah. That, honestly, that bit surprised me. as somebody who, you know, is an ally or like, I dunno, queer. queer light. Love this. I'm gonna get you a t-shirt that says queer light, LITE. So like, you know, like, so I'm always aware like going into to those spaces, it's in the interview coming up, but it was kind of laughable, like the last, the bar we went to. And I looked around and I was like. This is the queerest bar in Portland, just the people in it, and it was so welcoming, so warm. it wasn't that I felt like a minority, but I was just like making sure that I made space for everybody and just really listened. yeah, it was interesting As we'll hear, how do you interact in the space? how to ask the questions. Yeah. to make sure that everybody continues to feel safe. Yeah. As somebody who is very straight passing, usually, although most of my super queer friends are like, how would anybody ever guess that I'm like, you'd be surprised, but as somebody who generally, at least in like cis het spaces really passes for Straight or people. And in Portland and in Portland. I really appreciate the unlock collective experience because I do notice the otherness feeling in other spaces, and that as a space that I just kind of show up and I'm just like, I'm here. I'm just here. I do love that in the course of this episode that the topic of noise came up because we have noticed, like our biggest pet peeve is when it, the room is so loud, and I love that Polly and Oliver acknowledge that you kinda can't get around that. When you get a number of people, it's just gonna be loud. Yeah. And there was something a little bit healing in that for me. Yes.'cause we held our own event and we were like, oh yeah, We fell into our own trap. And you were just waiting for somebody to be like, Hmm, not to quiet in here. Like that happy hour, you probably would've you always talk about designing, like, I can't put sound padding on the walls I walked into that room and I was like, I wish I could bring some audio panels in here and I can't right now. I need to put a carpet on the floor. we knew it was gonna get loud and I kept thinking, oh God, we're gonna get blasted for, right.'cause we fell into the trap. Like we, we made what we said we don't like. Yes. But it was, it every time we, so it was healing. It was very healing. And every time we talk with another set of organizers, there's something very affirming about, we all suffer the same things with, with Polly and Oliver. We know that the room is noisy with because they have so many people. yes. and then it brings up some really great topics that we'll discuss at the end of the episode. how do you make spaces that feel right for you if things like noise are genuinely a problem that stops you from being able to participate? I can't wait for everyone to hear that. Polly and Oliver own a queer owned and operated creative design and consulting agency. They empower and celebrate businesses owned by the beautifully different, the queer visionaries and neuro divergent innovators and passionate advocates for equality. It creates authentic brands and client experiences that honor all of the unique voices while amplifying all of their missions. They empower their clients to stand out by embracing what makes them unique instead of following the crowd. Polly and Oliver's creative magic brings big ideas to life for small businesses and entrepreneurs who need a brand identity website or marketing strategy that feels genuine. Let's get into it. we finally got you in the podcast recording studio. We are here today to talk about your awesomeness, but also unlock collective. We really, really wanted to have you on to have a conversation about the queer community and safe spaces. This is a conversation we've been having off the mic for. A while now. Mm-hmm. And now that Megan and I have the podcast, we just thought, well, we should probably record this. Yeah. It's time. It'd be a good idea. Where did the Unlock Collective come from? And can you tell everybody a little bit about the format?'cause yours is different than a lot of other people's that we've talked to. Mm-hmm. You only run it quarterly? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Because of capacity, but yeah. Yeah. Do you wanna kick off? Which I think is important. Yeah. I mean, you make an a good point right off the bat. Our format is, it's quarterly, we change the location every time. But generally people know what to expect when they get there. but it is just quarterly because that's what we have capacity for. It really is just like kind of our gift to the community. Obviously there's, benefit from it for us and for other people that come, but, it's something that was just important for us to stay consistent with. And when we thought about doing it more, when we thought about, doing it like monthly or that kind of thing. We just knew that we would get burnt out on it. And that's I think what has really kept the longevity of it.' cause now we're years in and being years into an event really helps folks come to trust it and, kind of know that it will be long lasting. It was, originally born from our business, unlock collective. And then we started unlock networking. So Unlock Collective started when Polly and I were at a startup business that was fully failing. the value alignment just was not there. So we were like, we have to get outta here. We're not really sure what we wanna do. We know we don't wanna work for anybody else anymore and we know we wanna support small business.'cause we were watching a lot of small business just kind of struggle. So that's where it kind of started and was born from. And with that, of course we started networking, and we ran into so many big problems with that. I am a trans non-binary person. Polly is a cis woman, but queer identifying and all of the networking spaces that we were finding were so, exclusionary or gatekeepy. Or there was some kind of boundary that kept us from attending. So like, Polly would find a great spot, she'd be like, oh, it's really, um, you know, welcoming women, queer folks, everybody can come. And then she'd go into the room and it was very like, this is for women. and they would say like, you know, what do you guys wanna talk about? What do you wanna focus on here? And she would bring up, like, I wanna talk about queer issues. And they would kind of be like, cool, we'll put that on the board. And then nobody would want to talk about it because it just wasn't the right group for it. And then we would like run into problems where it was like they would have you come under the guise of networking and then they would do a sales pitch for the first, 30 minutes and then they would do, uh, round robin, everybody introduce yourself. And by the time that was done, the event was over and there was no opportunity for connection, for collaboration, for sharing stories, for talking about problems. And that's what networking is. You know, like that's where the magic happens is like those genuine conversations that happen and we just couldn't find it. or we would find structures where it was like it just didn't align. Like there were people there who were. There because they were looking for their next client and their next paycheck. And the way that we think about networking is like, how do we build a community of resilience around ourselves so that our business can thrive in connection? Right? So we were like, okay, let's keep looking for it. And then just kept getting disappointed over and over and over. we also just kept trying so many different spaces Something that we've come to really stick to is does this thing feel like a full body? Yes. Right. This is like consent work, but it's like, and so often we were going into these spaces, we were dreading going, we were like really nervous it was a really hard thing to convince ourselves to go, but we knew that we needed to network for our business and so we were like. How can we do this in a way that does not feel so draining? we wanted to be in a space where it was energizing and where like the conversations were natural and it was not feeling like just this ugh thing to dread every time we had to do it. And so I think that's really where we were like, I think we can make this happen. We just need to throw all the rules away. Especially like the structured part of it, like that in itself was so scary for me as like a neurodivergent person. Just like, What am I gonna be expected to do when I arrive to this space? Like, will I have to stand in front of people and speak? Will I have to play a game? Do I have to think of a fun fact about myself? Like these are all things that I am really good at masking in those moments when I have to, but I don't enjoy it. Like my heart starts to race while I'm waiting for my turn. Like all these things happen and I was like, if we're gonna keep doing this, like I wanna think about the people who feel that. So that they want to come too. And it really just came down to like, how can we make it the most accessible that we can? And we're still working on that. Like there's other ways we wanna keep making it more accessible, but like we came up with a list of rules. it will always be free because we don't want anybody to not be able to access networking because they're new in their business and they don't have the budget to spend $50 on a membership or anything like that. So always free. always in a queer owned space or an ally owned space so that we know it is a safe space with, clean bathrooms that have a locking door. preferably gender neutral restrooms or people can use the restroom that they wanna use. a space hopefully that has some outdoor space, so folks who are really COVID conscious can stand outside. somewhere where nobody's gonna make you feel silly if you're wearing a mask, that kind of thing. And we will always ask people to leave if they are making anybody feel uncomfortable. That was the other thing is if we don't think somebody aligns with this group, we're okay with telling them we don't think this is your group. the other piece of it is no structure. Like you come in, you write your name on a name tag, and you start having conversations with folks. Which we then learned was now we're in charge of making sure that those like nervous folks who aren't breaking into conversation or getting into conversation. So we, check in, we do room scans. If somebody seems like they're kind of out on the edge, we pull them into conversation, we introduce them to somebody. But we were just really committed to like this space working for as many people as possible. I hope that it feels like a space where really everybody walking in feels that kind of same ownership of like, this is a community that we're co-creating together because I'll notice that people see us do that kind of thing. Pull somebody into a conversation that might be just nervous on the corner and not sure how to break in. And now other people that like regularly come do the same thing. And so it's just become sort of, there's, there's kind of this like unwritten. best practices when you get there and I think people just observe each other and, and kind of like go off that. But a lot of people are, really warm, really welcoming, bring people in when they notice that they might be standing back and they really kind of like help that same. structure or non-structure, keep going. We've definitely experienced that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. The whole community. Yeah. You get your usual people who come regularly. And there is interestingly, a structure that shows up without the structure. Mm-hmm. But you guys pull really good people together. I don't know. I don't think we have. Well, no, I shouldn't say that too much. That'd be a blanket statement. I was like, I was gonna say, I don't think we have too many douche weeds in Portland, but be They're there. They're there. Oh, they're there. They're hiding in plain sight. They just, they just walk in, they see our group and they go, this ain't for me. Yeah. They mute themselves out a lot of the time, but in a way it's like such strong, visible branding. Yeah. Like people vibing and being good to each other. Yes. And it's so strong that if you don't fit, it's like. obvious you would just kind of lead. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it comes in our messaging as well, like the way that we describe the event. Like if you look at Eventbrite, our website, anywhere that we're talking about it, it's all like, this is a mission that we are going to create. Resilience and act in resistance as a group. we are not gonna let the outside world impact our success because we are taking care of each other. And it comes through and the way we describe it. So people show up with that intention and kind of, you know, if they, you read the description, like you kind of can weed yourself out. Like, this is not my typical. Space. I'm not gonna work. It's not gonna work for me. what do you hope that everyone who comes gets when they leave? we all know all of us at this table have organized events. And some of it is, so we can broaden our own networks obviously, and we wanna be of service to our communities. But like, what do you hope to get out of it? And then what do you hope that everyone who comes also gets out of it when they leave? Like is it just. Community and connection or is it that you're hoping that people continue to deepen relationships and that really great commerce starts happening in the queer community and we really bolster that more and more empowerment is like the thing that we've always has been like kind of a through line for us. even with the clients that we work with on a brand or a website or a marketing plan, whatever it is. Do they feel empowered to use it? Do they feel stronger and more empowered after working with us? We want that same feeling when people come in the room, do they feel more empowered to keep running this business that maybe is killing them and they're so tired, you know? Do they feel empowered because they talk to somebody who helped them like solve a problem that they're having? Or is their heart so full that they just believe that they can do it? And that. There's people behind them that love and support them and, and they can just lean on. It's like, it's really about feeling power in the room and feeling so powerful in that room that it carries until we see you next quarter. that's like super spot on. And I think, like you said, knowing that you have this resource, this group of people to go to. Whether it's, need to hire somebody for this, I have this great pool of people that I can go to.'cause really at the end of the day, like we would love all the people in the room to be working with each other and supporting each other. That's definitely the goal and many of them have, which is so cool to hear about. but definitely. that other piece of just kind of comradery of small business, just 'cause it is really hard. Like everything is stacked against us to fail. and so just having each other, oftentimes the connections that are made are not necessarily we're gonna hire each other. Maybe they're in the same industry and they're like, I'm struggling with this aspect in our industry. How do you do it? And they find an answer and work through it together. And so like sometimes it is the commerce piece where they're going that direction, but sometimes it's just as important as the support piece that's kind of being built there. And yeah, I think we've found that with folks that even connect with us. Sometimes it's like support or resources. Folks will reach out and say like, I knew you guys would be somebody I could go to 'cause this is something I'm needing. Even if they're not hiring us. It's just like, you know that kind of, just knowing that you have like the folks in your community. Mm-hmm. That's why we really don't wanna ever limit it by industry. Also, I think that's a really important piece is that a lot of these other networking groups are really. Some of them are like, specifically for, these are the people in your industry, but sometimes they're like, oh, you're in that industry. Cool. You're the only one that's gonna be allowed to come. And for we have, we have so many thoughts on, right. And it's just so wild to me because you. It's just as beneficial to connect with people in your industry, right? Yes. As it is to like connect with people that could hire you. It's so, so we always talk about community over competition and we really, really believe in that. Um, but that's a really vital piece of it too. Yeah, that's, that's so good. Okay. Thank you. Um, sorry it was like lost in your answer and I'm like, shit, where am I? Have one more thought on that. Oh, go for it. That just came to mind. The other piece of the like community over competition is that we really, truly believe that. Not every person that you meet that needs your services is the right person for you. Right? So like we love having other people that do what we do in our back pocket so that if we're not a good fit with a client, doesn't make that client a bad client, just not the right person for us. We have three other people that do what we do that we can send them to I and vice versa. I love that so much. Yeah. Because we are in a growing metropolitan area. You are never going to be the only one. No. Who does what you do. I am not the only studio in town. No. I have a very specific type of clientele, and if I'm not the right one, I need to be able to refer them out. Mm-hmm. And so. I love that we can have that on a recorded conversation. Please Everybody Rewind. Listen to that. Oh, I can't over and over. Make it your mantra. Yes. Yeah. There's enough to go around for everybody. There is so much to go around and you do get that feeling by hanging out in the community. So one thing that always comes to mind, you said this has been going for years. are you building towards something? What is the goal? We get a lot of, we get a lot of business from doing this. so that's great. It's not our number one like generation of business, it's our number one generation of friendship and community. So that's really important. But it keeps us like feeling empowered too. Mm-hmm. So like a lot of it is just like the heart feeling that we get out of it. This might be a surprising answer, but No, we are not working towards anything. we are working towards so many things in our business and in our personal lives that right now. We don't want to try to rework something that's already working. we're leaving it as it is because what we've found is predictability is one of the biggest keys to our success. the reason people keep coming is'cause they know what to expect. And so it kind of like what I said, a little bit earlier, takes some of the nerves out of it. They know what's gonna be expected of them when they arrive. even though we switch up the location, they always know it's gonna be a safe location, that it's gonna be, you know, hopefully a space that has outdoor all of the things that make it predictable, like. Even down to like the little game that we like, have folks play if they want to fully optional, you know, like they know that they can or they don't have to. They know that there's no moment where we're gonna put them in front of everybody and make them do a thing like that. Predictability, I think, is what keeps people coming. and our numbers just keep growing. So at the moment we're like. Let's just keep doing what's working and use this time to work on things that we want to actually be changing. so yeah, all of our like working towards things are around like unlock collective as an agency rather than unlock networking. but yeah, I can see in the future that we might do other things, like you said, like after a little while maybe it might get a little stale. We might need to switch it up, but like we have, Pride events where we had like, rather than it being our typical thing, we had like a queer market and some folks were able to come and like, sell things at, the event. And we had like a drag performer and there's things, and then like, had folks be like, you guys should put on a workshop before one of the events so people can hear from you. You've taught me so much. You know, so we've thought about like doing some like hybrid adjustments, but, No, it, we want it to just keep growing as it is and we want, we just want the folks who keep showing up and, keep getting something from it to just keep growing with us. that's the goal is really like, how do we keep everybody showing up for years and years, the way that we're gonna keep showing up? Yeah.' cause we've heard from other ones where, like, AI Portland, where your community, it reaches a point. Where it becomes a beast. Mm-hmm. Or a, a child. Right? And, and it's like, but we want more. And, we've talked with people who've had to put very clear boundaries of like, this is what I can give you and this is what I can't give you. Mm-hmm. Poll is very adamantly shaking her head. Yes. Her nodding her head. Oh my gosh. Yes. Because it's even in your, your last answer there where like people have asked for, for workshops and so yeah. It, it, it is just kind of, it naturally happens. And that's also where it was like, if people have been starting to ask for more, do you feel, I mean, do you feel like responsible or for giving them all of that, or are there outlets that you point them toward instead? Or in this case where we talked about like someone else could. Build that please. Totally. We've definitely had to like lay down some boundaries because, there's this pull towards it and so I think a lot of people feel this draw and have been excited to like, get involved and do that. we've kind of made an agreement not to collaborate with anybody. We're. nervous about different energy coming in and shifting it. And too many cooks in the kitchen. And really, we are super supportive if somebody wants to start their own group. And we know that like, a group might be created by another person that fits other people's personalities better, and that's totally fine. Like we've found this little niche and it works and so we just kind of wanna keep it going in that direction. I think we would be excited to do little. Changes, change it up a little bits here and there. but I think we do just wanna try to keep, keep kind of the preciousness of what works working well. and we know capacity wise if we get too elaborate or grow too big, then we're not gonna be able to do it anymore. So that's a big piece of the boundaries is we're like. It has to be sustainable for us. Otherwise, we aren't gonna have enough. We barely have enough time for it as it is, so we have to keep it so simple so that we can keep it going. But I also think about when folks have an event or you know, have an event or a group like this. And a lot of the times the ultimate goal is like, it's maybe their main thing and they're making money off of it. And so the making money off of it is helping them run it and do that growth and sustain it. It's, that's never been the goal for us. The goal really is just to like, hold space for this little community in this, uh, really cool event. in that sense, we have to keep it really simple so that it can kind of remain what it is. I looked back before we got here and we've had, I don't know if all of these people have shown up, but in the history of our event, we've had like over 500 people, different individual people register or come and attend. That's a huge group of people. And a lot of those names, like as I was going through, I was like, yep, they've been to like three events. That person's been to all of them. This person's come twice. This person's come at least once. Like, that's a lot of connection That's already such a large group. If we, a lot of people have all these ideas and they're like, let's do this, and what if we, add this thing and it's like. Yeah, like Pollyy said, the sustainability piece, but also like there's already 500 people coming. We don't need to have anybody else, you know? We only just started registering people like a year ago, by the way. Yeah. Before that it was just like show up. And now we actually are like, please, RSVP. So that's only in the last year and a half, those 500. and we typically have like anywhere from Think our smallest event was like 30 people, and our biggest one was almost 200. it usually falls kind of like around the 50 mark, but that's a big group for these like small businesses to be hosting as one for free. All of these places are letting us come for free. Um, they're reserving space for us for this community. If we start getting bigger, we start, you know, asking for money and all of this stuff, we're gonna lose that core value of like the accessibility piece of it, which is like number one, just everybody should be able to open the door and walk in and feel like they belong and there's no barrier to the entry. Do you guys feel like there is. an oversaturation of queer events in town, or would you like to see more? I would like to see so many more. There's never enough because like Polly said earlier, like this structure works for us and the people who are coming consistently and like our group, but I've seen people come. And never seen them again. Mm-hmm.'cause it clearly didn't work for them. Mm-hmm. Or we've had folks, you know, we've had folks like send us a message afterwards and be like, Hey, I had a really good time, but like, I'm not gonna come again because of this reason. And it's like, okay, yeah, that's, that's totally fine. You know, like we've had folks say like, it gets too loud and I need smaller groups. Could you do smaller groups? No, but you, you can, you can, you know mm-hmm. Like, there's space, there's so much space for these groups. Like there's a lot of folks who wanna meet, exclusively online. There's a lot of folks who only wanna meet with people who are getting COVID tested 24 hours before and like a week before. That's fine. Make, make those groups. I always like to plug queer social club anytime we possibly can. They're fantastic. Fantastic. Like it's, it's like a list that goes out weekly. You can add your events on there and they send it out to you via email telling you all the queer events that are happening. There's so many, many, there's so many. There are so many. So it's so good. It's incredible. Yeah, it's so good. And I go in there and I look at that list and sometimes I'm like, well, there's nothing this week that I wanna do. But if. There was, I would've done something like this. So I constantly am thinking about like what I am looking for and the other events that we could be doing. There's space, there's so much space for it. What advice would you give to them if you're like, okay, you want a quieter room, that's always gonna problem anytime as. Base grows. Mm-hmm. We also hosted a happy hour to see what would happen if we have more people. Mm-hmm. And we were like, it's gonna get noisy in here. Mm-hmm. And it did. There's just no way around it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think noise is probably one of the biggest issues that we hear about group size. So it's more intimate for the introverted crowd, the other big one that we hear about. And then just very niche, special interest kind of things. Yeah. Kind of after that. But let's say somebody's listening to this, they've been to an unlock maybe once, twice, or a few more times. Maybe they've come to some stuff that Megan and I have done or other things around town, and they're like, oh, I just like can't find the thing that I want. What would you do if you were starting something and you were gonna put it on queer social club? Mm-hmm. what would be like the 1, 2, 3 that you would do? Yeah. I would start with asking some reflective questions. cause that's kind of like what we did is we. Reflected on what we were looking for and then made the values of our event. So like that's where you should start. It's like, what's missing that I needed at the last couple events that I went to? what kind of people do I want to show up? What kind of people do I not want to show up? Because that even more is important. who is this space not for? So that you can specially curate it for the people you do want it for. And then I would say again, like really thinking about capacity.'cause like the success of an event is like long term commitment to it. like some folks will like host an event once or twice. They don't have enough people show up. They feel like they didn't get anything out of it and they quit. But if they had kept going, it would've turned into something similar to like what we have. We were very lucky that it. Picked up really quickly 'cause we did a lot of intentional work and we had like a community already behind us who was also looking for the same thing. Sometimes I think it's, hard for folks to show up and get attached to something, to just have it go away. And so I think that last point that Oliver made is so important to stick it out even when There isn't good, turnout or the location doesn't work and then we have to figure out and pivot. I think just the sticking with it is the most important part and the hardest part that we find. And keeping it simple that is why ours has been successful. We print a sign in sheet, we like send out an Eventbrite, we post it on Instagram, we text our friends, that's what we need to do other than like show up on that day, but. In the beginning we weren't doing that. We were doing so much more.' cause we were like, we gotta get people in this room and it's gotta be the coolest event they've ever been to. It was every billboard in town. Yeah. Yeah. When we let go of that and we were like, keep it simple, it almost got even better. So it'd say like, don't try to do every single idea that you have in that first event. Just keep it really simple and learn.' cause the people in the room are gonna tell you what they did and didn't like and why they're gonna come back or not. So just get it done. Just get that first one done. Doesn't matter if two people show up or 150 people show up. Just get it done. Take note of what worked and what didn't, and keep shifting until you find you're like, this is it. This is what we do every time. Yeah. But making it as simple as possible is. The way that you can continue and not get overwhelmed and burnt out and not have to start asking people for money and paying people to support you. It's just really simple. I think the other thing too that's been really cool to see is People Love to have a cool thing to talk about and to tell other people about. So if our event was plastered all over everything and every single person could fi, could know about it and come and it was just so well known, that'd be great. But also. People feel really special. Being able to be like, I know of this really cool event and I wanna bring you, or oh my gosh, you haven't heard of this. Let me tell you about it. We find that like so many folks that come are word of mouth or they're bringing a friend, they came last time and a friend brought them and now they're bringing a group of friends. And so that's been a really cool thing to see too, is if you work on creating and curating the event. To be something that people are excited to be at, then they'll almost do that work for you. And our group has grown into a room full of people that I want to talk to. Yeah. You know, because the people that came the last time and our messaging spoke to them, they're bringing people like them so that we're just organically growing into this group of really like-minded, community-minded strong folks. what can Allies do for our queer community, whether they're here in the metro Portland area? Or maybe somebody, we have listeners who are not here and they're nerding out on this podcast, so hopefully they're getting inspired to host and provide queer safe spaces. So cool as well. what can allies do? Because you don't have to be queer to serve queer community. Totally, yeah. But the queer community needs a lot of support right now. I mean, we love when allies come to our event, so I think, As long as you're reading the room and the messaging is very clearly like welcoming. This is a welcoming space for allies. please do show up. I think sometimes that can be nerve-wracking to be like, I'm going into a space that's maybe not meant for me. I don't wanna take up space here, but like you showing up and supporting the queer businesses in that space is absolute allyship. And even you just knowing about those businesses and being able to tell other people about them is huge. So like don't be afraid to come and to support, even if it's You know, whatever queer comedy showcase or whatever the group might be we want folks to be involved in our community. We don't wanna feel like we're on an island. So be involved in, true allyship is really showing up. I would, uh, piggyback off of that and say like, questions, ' cause like there's this misconception around, oh, I like, shouldn't ask queer people personal questions. You can ask questions without being inappropriate. go into the room. With the intention of learning. About queer experiences so that you can use that to educate and inform the way you are going to behave moving forward, or the way you're gonna show up or the way that you're gonna tell those stories to people who need to hear it. So ask people, like, as a queer business owner, what are some of the challenges that you face? how do you make decisions about how to express your identity to your clients? Do you, have, safety measures that you've put in place for your business? You know, and start learning about these things that queer people have to do to be safe and strong and resilient business owners. And then go put that into practice yourself. You know, like if queer folks are telling you like they have to consider their safety, like you can learn from that. sure you have folks on your team or your own self that you don't feel safe in certain ways. It's a great reflection piece to like just learn from other folks. and then I would say like, if you wanna host an event and you want queer people to come, like please consider bathrooms. Like one of the number one reasons why I don't go to an event is if I don't feel like I'm gonna be able to use the bathroom there. And like here in Portland, like we're very fortunate to have spaces that have. Great bathrooms for trans people, but not everywhere. at least once or twice a month I go somewhere where like there's not a lock on the stall and a man walks in the room and like. He's now watching me use the bathroom. consider the space that you're going to consider. Like is there a flag outside if there's bartenders or other staff in the room? Are they informed staff members? how are you making sure there's like security and safety if you're going to bring people in and say like, this is a queer affirming space. Make sure you've done the work. To make sure that it actually is.'cause just saying that it is, is not where it ends. And I've gone to so many places where that's been implied and then, I'm misgendered the whole time. I can't use the bathroom, and people aren't taking me seriously because I'm the only trans person in the room. So consider, what it actually means to create safety for queer folks. Listen, I'm queer and I've learned more about. Gendered bathrooms from our conference. Yeah. Than I ever have before. Yeah. Because we're recording in a very old building. And it is. There's a men's room and a women's room. And it sparked this whole discussion the last time we all had our circle up in here. Mm-hmm. And I just remember being like, what do you mean they don't have doors? Like on the stalls? What do you mean? Yeah. I had no idea. And it's a war zone in there. It is a war zone. Y yo. No. Yeah, it sounds terrible. Yeah. But, it really it's so informational, even for members of the community, Your experiences, your experience, and when you only have access to certain things, you know, certain things and not other things. And I think that's normal for humans. But I, I love this about learning how to ask good questions because I have had. Cishet white friends in the last few years asking me more and more questions privately, and sometimes it's usually the dudes and they're like, I don't know if this is appropriate. And I'm like, just ask me. I'll be, and I'm like, ask me the ugly shitty first draft question. Yeah. And to, but be able to be able to hold that space for somebody and I think like, we can have more dialogue. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I get that it's like scary to ask those questions and to not know if you're You know, asking for emotional labor from somebody. I think that's, that's what often stops people. And so I think just navigating that too, like, Is this somebody that's open to those questions? I think Oliver and I are probably some of the most open people when it comes to like, ask me your most ignorant question because I am so here to like bridge that and let's, let's chat it out.'cause I'm really not gonna take offense, you know, for the most part. But like, let's get it all out on the table. But some people are like, I have to answer questions all day long at my day. You know, whatever it is. Mm-hmm. Or I have, you know, a very conservative family and I'm constantly having, so it's like. Not everybody is open to that, but like when you find somebody who is, or if you can like gauge their openness to it by maybe asking some like leading questions first. it's really helps build bridges and I think it's so helpful. I think earlier, Polly, you said it so well where you were like, there's consent in here and I think there's like a pre-question before the the question, which is a consent question. Mm-hmm. which is fully admitting like, okay, I have a really stupid question. Yeah. I feel stupid asking it. Yeah. And I don't know if this is going to ask you to do emotional labor. Yeah. Please. Feel free to tell me if you don't wanna answer the question. That is so much respect of itself, and I feel like it opens the door to actually having the discussion. Mm-hmm. Which sets a community apart and, yep. Yeah. Not assuming. And then I think the other piece of it too is like just being willing to accept whatever answer you get. Yeah. Like if you're gonna ask the question, be ready to accept, that's not an appropriate question. don't get all defensive, like, oh, I didn't know. It's like the response should be, oh, I, I, apologize. Is there a different way I could have asked that? Or is that just something I shouldn't ask at all? If you respond in that way, that person's gonna be more excited about that response and then be more likely to actually take the time to educate you because of your response. so yeah, just be willing to like hear. Yeah. No, I actually don't wanna answer that question. For the, the queer folks that are are listening. Like one thing that has been, nice for me is teaching people how to ask it better next time, because that makes me feel like I'm helping my trans and queer brothers and sisters because like that person is now a little bit more informed. And if they have a question in the future or a comment in the future, they're gonna pause and think about the impact of the way Like speak it aloud. So if somebody asks me an inappropriate question or they just say it in a weird way, I'll say, oh, that's actually like a really good question. I'm glad you asked me this. Would've been a better way to have said that. Just so you know, no harm done, feelings aren't hurt. This would've been better. But here's now my answer and the response that I get from the, from those folks is usually so positive. And they like will come back to me like weeks later and be like, I've been thinking about that so much. Like, thank you for taking that moment for me. And I think there's like such this gap of straight people are doing harm to queer people and they should Google it and we shouldn't take any time to educate them. And like, I am trying to lean so hard the other way of like, let's all come back together in this. I'm not saying we all should always answer every question, but like if you have it in you that day, like. To pause and think like, was this person actually trying to harm me, or do they just really not have the information they need to ask it in an appropriate way, and can I help? The like terrible part of my brain right now after all the things we discussed is like, you know what we should do? We should make a workshop. And I'm like, don't do it there. Don't do it. Yeah. I mean we have a lot of workshops that are around educating. We do folks, like we have a whole workshop that is about how you can have queer affirming marketing Yeah. Without being performative. And we like give examples of like, this was a really bad performative. Marketing piece that was like queer baiting and really stereotype and awful. Here's how, if we just tweaked it a little bit, it would've been appropriate and actually effective. so we teach people things like that and we have a lot of conversations like people choose to work with us. Even as straight folks because they know we have that lens. Mm-hmm. And on top of it, like, you know, Poly's queer and a woman, I'm trans and neurodivergent, like we have all the layers. Yeah. So they come to us because we have that insight and we love when they make that choice. Well, that is a beautiful segue. How can people get more things like that from you? We keep our website pretty updated with events and workshops that we're hosting. if you head to our website, we have an events page, you can. Kind of see what's going on. We also take requests. we just added a workshop because at the end of a different workshop, five people came up to us and said, can you talk about this? And we said, yeah, totally. So we added it to the calendar. So we really like to create, events or workshops or, sessions based around what people are really needing. Mm-hmm. We want it to be impactful. and then we have a cute little business brief newsletter that we send out that has updates about what we're doing. We throw in like some fun little marketing tidbits in there. it's a good way to kind of stay up on what we're doing. People can also just hit us up on Instagram, like we're very responsive on there. Like, it is the two of us that you're talking to if you're on our Instagram and we are very much like exactly who we are. on the internet as well. So, um, if you wanna keep up with us, you can follow us. Yeah. If I'm not collective. but yeah, I, I think, we're, we wanna work with, folks who are looking for an empowered experience and folks who are looking to, Build a business or grow the business that they have in a way that really feels affirming for themselves and their clients and everybody that they're going to impact. Well, I'm not surprised that Polly and Oliver delivered some serious moments there on the microphone. I mean, they are marketers by trade. They have the words. They had all the words. Yeah. It went in directions. I, even though we had questions ahead of time. It went so much deeper than I was expecting, to be honest. Yeah. And I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed learning about how the whole thing started and also, again, reaffirming that they saw a gap in an experience that they wanted to have in a community that they are members of. And then they started creating it. And I love that they were like, you, you have to create it and you have to keep doing it. Polly brought up a great point about how you can't create things and then just like take them away from people. I was like, thank you. Preach, please. But it really brought up, uh, an important theme, which is labor load. And I do think that this is something that makes people feel a little nervous because it is work as you and I know it is work. Yes. Yeah. And I think there's no getting around it. Even if you do a minimum viable. Like we've tested minimum viables. There's still work because you still have to do the marketing, send out all the emails, get the space. Yeah. You know, and you have to look after your community. Yes. There's after, yeah. After messages that need to be sent, summaries, you know, like checking in everything. Yeah. If you do it right. so I think it's important, and it was kind of touched on in the interview. But, you know, Oliver was saying like, you have to ask yourselves those deep questions. You and I are the type also that it's like, I think you need to get real clear on what do you actually want. Yeah. Because that helps shape it, but also makes the labor worth. It. Well, the motivation behind it is what you're seeking. Yes, because I was watching Polly and Oliver across the table from us here in the studio. And they are motivated very much by community and gathering. You and I both know, I mean, this is what we bonded over. Our motivations are completely different. You and I are like, where's the ROI? Where's the money? What's my offer? How are they getting into it? Yeah. Like I wanted, there's a business path. It is, and Pollyy and Oliver made it real clear that yes, they have business path. the community is its own path. And so I think like that question that you're asking, like why are you doing it, is really important because the way you and I construct our private coffee parties is very different from the way Polly unlock collectives, networking. Yeah. and when I used to run the freelancers union meet up here in Portland, I had an ROI, I had a goal. And it was kind of like once that wasn't being met and I wasn't getting the support happen that did happen for you. I watched it go down. Then I really kind of pulled the plug quickly on that one. So when, when Polly was like, you can't just stop it. I was like, well, you can but if you're not getting what you want and need. Mm-hmm. And that's where it's kind of like you need to iterate on it, but at some point, if you're only giving and not receiving, You just gotta pull, like that's the boundaries gotta go up or I think you have to know what your threshold is. Yes. And you and I have. Collaborated on enough things. Our thresholds are quite similar. Yeah. Like we had our hustle hard slide faster. RIP Bless Who? Why didn't people wanna give weird presentations? I don't know. I don't know. But we were pouring into this and we had this very small group that loved coming. Yeah. But the labor load started to outweigh the benefits. Yep. and so you and I have had more benefit by running our formula with like the private invite only Yeah. Coffee party. and then we tried a happy hour, which also was very successful, and we had a lot of people ask for more. So you and I are behind the scenes talking about what are we doing? What comes next? Yeah. If you're gonna start something, have those clear parameters so that you know what is the actual labor it's more than you think emotional, mental. Yes. You have to be prepared for some labor. Yep. And I think if you're allergic to labor or if you just want a quick dopamine hit, this isn't, this isn't, it's not gonna do it because you need to nurture it. but the other thing would be, you know, when you do go to an event, your good Asian daughter traits rubbed off of me where it's like, thank your host. Acknowledge that they did work. Yeah. You know, to, whether that's leaving a tip or just telling them, thank you so much. I really appreciate that you made this space for me. Instead of just telling them what you didn't like about it. Yes. Share the event with other people. Yeah. Do not tell them what. There are some people, I think they exist to walk around and they're like, and I didn't like this and I didn't like that, and I'm like, do you like anything? Do you like any? Yeah. Then make it yourself. Well, well, that brings us into our really big takeaway from our conversation with Polly and Oliver is about how there's no scarcity here. If there's something that you want, you should go and make it, because they have also had all kinds of requests. I want a quieter room. Yep. I want, you know, special, provisions. Yep. For, especially coming out of the COVID times, like for, you know, COVID testing and whatnot. different types of rooms, different types of formats. They wanna workshop virtual. and there's only so much that one host can do. They're business owners and that networking community exists predominantly out of the goodness of their hearts. I mean, especially if you're not. Paying anything and you're also not paying anything. You can't ask for the moon. I mean, they have done so much so generously to make sure that people get Something that is very accessible. and I do think that, there's a little bit Of a reckoning moment, I believe for our communities, all communities, queer ally doesn't matter, make it if you want it. We've had so many people now come on the microphone in here and you and I are still banking recordings. While, while we're doing this one right now, and this theme keeps coming up, which is if you want it, you should make it like there is so much room. You're not competing with other people. Yeah. Just because there's a queer event doesn't mean there can only be one queer event. I think there's this sort of thread in the existing business communities that has been trained by these. Older models, which is you can only have one. I think that in our marginalized communities, because there are typically fewer of us, it can feel like, oh, well, maybe super special to be the one. but what if it was everyone? Well, yeah. So that's what came to oil. And when Oliver was like, there could be more. And I saw a bumper sticker recently that said. Until there's nine, it's not enough. And I thought about it, I'm like, oh, it's the Supreme Court. Oh, right. And so until all the events are queer, it's not enough. Oh, I like this. It's like a rallying cry, right? I think anyone who's listening just needs to hear the rallying cry, but also the space that's available and the, accommodation that's available and that, you don't have to worry that you're gonna have so much competition or that people won't come. I mean, they won't come to weird presentations, but I don't think that they were gonna come anyways. Megan, I hate to tell you. I know, And that's a learned lesson. We'll get them another way, but we, but we pivoted and we tried another thing. I think it's a, you know, a great way of having lived an experience that, like Polly was saying, don't give up. Like, try it again. You don't fail till you stop. I think a lot of people are scared to start something. Why do you think that they're scared to start? This is hard because I've learned that my impulsivity for A DHD is toward just saying yes to things like it. Thankfully, it's not toward buying things like goodness. it's toward being like, okay, I got that one, one covered. I think with a ADHD too, you're just too resilient. I think especially for women, there is the, who am I? That one's a big one. Yeah. Who am I to fill in the blank? Mm-hmm. To be seen as an, an authority figure in this, or as special enough to lead this? Yeah. Or to any kind of qualification. Any qualification. I, I think also, like if you create it, then two, you're maybe saying, uh, for some women like that there's a negative. Space in the sense that this isn't here, so I'm gonna make it. You are then critiquing the other people in the space who are not giving you what you need. And I do people think that I never, like my mind right now is like, oh my God, I never even thought about it like that. Yeah.'cause you wouldn't wanna rack the boat, right? Oh, because you're rocking the boat. You're also like, it's a little comp, you know, competitive. Oh, I must be a terrible boat rocker. Am I? Yeah, I think part of me would think that way. I don't want to get other people angry by me creating something and saying, Hey. I didn't feel safe in your space. I didn't think I got what you said I would get. So I made this thing. It is a negative to somebody else. Yeah. I, I see people do that in the business context all the time. Yeah. Where they're like, how dare you do something similar Akin do what I do. Yes. And it's like, yo boo, you're not the first or the last two that we gonna do but that also usually tells me in the business context, I'm like, oh, you don't, you don't understand business markets because you're trying to serve everyone. I do think that what you're bringing up, just kind of further highlights that you gotta get out there and go to stuff and experience it. And then if there's something that you have been craving, like really go get the real life data. And serve your part of the community. Yeah. it's responsibility. Right. I, I think a lot of people just are like, I already have enough on my plate, but it's kind of like I grew up with the, the saying for politics, you don't get to complain unless you voted. So I kind of feel like you don't get to complain unless you, unless you tried to start your own thing. Yeah. You, you need to understand what that is. Yeah. And Polly and Oliver do an amazing job. That's it for today's episode of The Awkward Handshake. We record at Sasquatch Media Grounds in Vancouver, Washington. I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap Design and creator of PDX Spellbound, and I'm Mary. Founder of Sasquatch Media Grounds and Sensible. Woo. You'll find links to everything we mentioned, guests, resources, and ways to connect with us in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform. That's also where you'll get updates on where we're headed next, and when we're inviting listeners like you to join us for guided networking in person and online. Don't be passive. Click the links. Pick better rooms. We'll see you there.