Networking in the Wild: BookCon NYC

What happens when you take your networking skills out of your home city… and drop them into a massive conference?

In this episode of The Awkward Handshake, it’s just Mary and Megan (recording after returning from BookCon NYC) sharing their immediate reactions to what networking feels like in a high-energy, location-based event.

This is a real-time download of what’s different, what’s surprisingly the same, and what actually matters when you’re meeting people outside your usual ecosystem.

We talk about the energy of large conferences, how people show up differently, and why the same core networking skills still apply—even when everything else changes.

If you’ve ever wondered whether networking at a big event “counts”… or how to make the most of it when you’re there, this episode is your field report.

In this episode, we talk about:

•  What networking feels like at a conference vs. local events
•  The energy shift of being in a new city with new people
•  Why the same core skills still apply (even in chaotic environments) 
•  How people show up differently at large-scale events
•  What makes conference networking feel easier—or harder 
•  The role of proximity, timing, and spontaneity in connection 
•  Why sometimes you just have to go to the thing and see what happens

Keep in touch! 

Follow Megan Eckman

• Fat Cap Design
• PDX Spellbound

Follow Mary Williams

• Sasquatch Media Grounds
• Sensible Woo

Transcript

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This is The Awkward Handshake, a podcast about networking business and what really happens in the room. We're unpacking the good, the bad, and the awkward, so you can build better connections and get paid. Let's get into it. Dude, we went to BookCon. We survived. I survived and we came back. I thrived. The story of the two most opposite people. It's like the start of a bad joke, two opposites get on a plane, a fly across the country. I thought we were the same until we walked in. No, no. I think this goes all the way back to the introvert extrovert episode and I was like, oh, Megan doesn't realize how much extroversion she has in her because you were like, I'm good. And I was like. The people. The people are draining me Dry or you are con Am I con convention? on the spectrum. You go all the way. Convention in I go conference and, yeah. I mean we cut, but it was only called Book Con, only, we didn't know which one. What a con. No, actually we had a really good time though. Overall there were a lot of takeaways. Yeah, there was a ton of discourse online on social media, so anyone who is halfway curious can go to Instagram or Threads and search hashtag book on 2026 and you will see all of it. Watch people lose their shit. People lost their shit in real time. That was actually highly entertaining. It really was. we were like in it. And then seeing other people post while you're in it is a wild experience. just to recap, there is a thing called BookCon that had not happened, an event that hadn't happened in six years. They brought the event back. It's held in New York City. We were at the Javit Center, so we flew from Portland to New York and we brought along my longtime friend and editor, the amazing Cheryl Woodruff, and then my sister met us as well, just. For social reasons and so we were in New York. for me it was definitely half personal, half business, and also in a large part, supporting you and helping you with your PDX Spellbound, which is. Amazing. I was rooting for you so hard the whole time. you went in, I think more prepared like, I'm here to build my list and find collaborators and get the market research data. And I was kind of, but I'm also here to like try to enjoy it. And then I was like, oh, the enjoyment is not gonna happen. They had 25,000 tickets sold by day two. Many of them tapped out as Cheryl and I did. You were Xena Warrior Princess. I mean, you just kept going and going and going. Cheryl and I chose a bougie brunch with my sister on day two. It is the first time I've seen people laying face down. They were using my technique, in the hallways. Of the convention though, they were literally face down. They were literally face down in their backpacks. Not like one person. No. Like rows of people. Rows next to the window. The wildest, it looked like. Yeah, there were some just slumped. The second day. I didn't tell you. Like in the hall, it just like slumped, like somebody would like cut the marionette strings and they just had like their hands over their faces and I was like. Oh girl. Like you need to go. Well, we discovered that your magical powers, super powers from vending from your embroidery kit business all those years ago turn out to have some serious powers. Like you've got muscles in you. Oh girl, I, no, I do not have those muscles. And I've done South by Southwest, which is intense in and of itself. And I was like, but con broke me. Yeah. I thought it would break me 'cause. I hadn't been to, I hadn't been to one that big before. there's some interesting discourse online. there's a lot of people who are trying to find the silver lining. There's a lot of people who are just like down with BookCon. I don't know that any of them are right or wrong, it's just their opinions. but I do think that there's room for improvement in logistics I think everybody would agree on that. the organizers from it have put out a public statement, made it all the way to USA today. who knew that the national stage was watching book comic. And so they know that they have a lot of room for improvement too. but you and I really wanted to digest more importantly, what came out of this for you and me. And the very first thing is this. Thread that has been stalking us through this whole season of the podcast, which is paying for access as opposed to free things and what kind of value you get out of it. And I think the reason why some people are so upset with BookCon is because we all paid for access. But what automatic value you got out of it, varied very greatly depending on what level of access you paid for. And then also your level of. modern convention skillset because with a crowd that size, there is a certain strategy. It's like going to, it reminded me of people who go to Disney World and plan their fast passes. Yep. Ahead of time. Yep. And so apparently when they released the reservations online, reservations were not just for author signings, they were also for panels. They were BA pretty much for everything. And then if you wanted advanced reader copies, which are called Arc copies, a RC, you also needed tickets and reservations for those. So the whole thing was like this flea market smash and grab melee. Yeah. I mean, so I understand why some people were upset because they went in for a very different experience and reason than I did. I knew I was not gonna stand in any line. Mm-hmm. I did not, I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but I didn't care enough to get, an author signed book to stand in line for like an hour or two or three. Same. Didn't care. I'm gonna get it from the library anyway. I didn't wanna sit in any panels necessarily. Oh. That's where we differed.' cause I was like, yeah, I'll enjoy the exhibits, but I figured while you were running around enjoying your vending muscles, I was like, I'm gonna sit in on some panels and then I couldn't get into the panels and I was like, well, this sucks. Yeah. So, because nothing. Really changed for me. Like there was one meetup I didn't get to go to because we were still literally outside. Oh yes. We didn't even talk about getting inside. Yeah. The doors opened at 10 and then we had to walk an additional six city blocks in New York City. We were, if you know, to the end of the line, to the end of the line, and if anyone knows New York and you over the Javits is out on the west side of Manhattan, if you go up six city blocks and then hang a left on 41st street, you end up at Pier 83. We were standing at Pier 83 to get in line, so. We didn't actually get in until like the event had been going on for a little over an hour. An hour. Yeah. So I missed the first kind of like meetup. Yeah. You did thing that I wanted to go to and it didn't bother me that much. I was more upset for them if people weren't able to show up Because of things out of their control. so for me, The main point was I wanted to walk the floor. Yeah. And I was doing a lot of market research and a lot of networking. Do you feel like by paying for an event, not that we haven't paid for events before, but this one was like a large event, so by paying for it, do you feel like there was all of these logistics hiccups that they had that they will fix in future versions? All of that aside, do you feel like there was more value or a value that you could get only by paying for the ticket as opposed to other events that we go to? I know that the mindset I went in with was completely different. I am here, I have flown all this way. I have paid all this money. I have 100 business cards on me. The goal is not give all 100 business cards out, but the goal is you better not. Only handout one. And so it definitely became this thing where normally I'd be like, oh, maybe I'll talk to them. No, it's fine. I'll catch 'em another time. This was like, no, I lapped that thing two to three times every floor. Oh my God. We made it down one and a half aisle because I was like, well, they're, they were busy. And I was like, I'm coming back. I wanna talk to them. I will snake back and see them again. And some of it too, I was watching how they interacted with people and I wanted to see that sort of, stuff. So for me it was definitely, I don't wanna say that it took more risks, but I definitely had more gumption to be like, yeah, I'm gonna talk to everybody that I wanna talk to. every line I got into bathroom, whatever, I chatted everyone up around me and some were super nice and I handed out my card. Others were like, who the hell is this woman talking to me while I'm just waiting to pee? you even talked to the people on the airplane I talk to. Yeah. Girl, I really think you're an extrovert. You really do. I had my noise canceling headphones on, on the airplane watching really bad action movies the whole way. Very interesting. And then if I turned my head just right, so like the little noise canceling would shift and I could hear you still talking to the people on the airplane. We talked for a good hour and a half probably. okay. not that it matters entirely, but I'm just curious. You came with a hundred business cards. How many were left when you were done? Because I handed out a total of two, I think I handed out probably we like 30, 35. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Yeah. I agree with you. I think that your mindset immediately shifts when you buy a ticket and not just a ticket to a local event, but you also have to buy a plane ticket. You just without fail, have to change the way you show up. Yeah. It is very, very different. and I think it's different for everyone else who's there too, despite any crazy convention happenings or not. Yeah, it's different. I does also do a lot of prep. You do a lot of prep and it was actually really, really great. and I think that's a great segue actually into our second, point about BookCon because we were talking about destination event networking. Like what are the similarities and differences? Do you feel like you do as much pre-event prep here? When we do local things, even if it's like a paid thing as opposed to like what you did going to BookCon, I know it's a little bit different, but it's hard to equate them because they don't give the list. So BookCon had the vendor list. And I went through that sucker A to Z Yeah. Beforehand and made a list and knew where they were. local events tend not to, they'll, they'll talk about the speakers and things, but you don't get a list of like, everybody who's attending you and I have talked about how we kinda seal team six, the, is this worth it to go? this was kind of it on steroids. Yes. I would agree wholeheartedly. the list was so long and I was so busy before going, I have yet to go through it. But in January before I shared stage with other people, I researched all the other people I was sharing stage with. Yeah. So I would know who I wanted to make sure we connected exceptionally well in person, which has paid off afterwards 'cause we chat, so. Yeah. Well, and like you and I do it for all the guests who come here, you know, we, we Oh yes. To research into them beforehand just a bit bigger. But I don't know that the prep is that much different, but I'm weird. I don't wanna say it's weird. I wanna say that ideally it. Maybe you do more than average. Yeah. But it is an activity that everyone should be doing. I mean, networking isn't just about what happens in the room. There's stuff you do outside of that room and on your own. And I'm not talking about like the coffee chats you set up afterward, like researching people looking up what they've done, not expecting them to tell you all the answers. one other thing I did to prep for this that I occasionally do for local events, but I have to really want it, is I found authors and companies that I wanted to talk to more. And I started the communications two weeks out on their socials. And let them know I'm gonna be coming and just like commenting on their stuff, Starting a conversation. so that when I rocked up to their booth, they were like, oh my God, it's you. Yeah. Like, yeah, you said you were coming and here you are, and that changes the interaction then just anybody else who comes up and is like, sign my book. I wanna buy your thing. I'd love to have a coffee date with you. I love the points that you're bringing up because it gets into some points that you and I were talking about, which was market research, in our takeaways. Both of us have market research as like a major thing that we were there to do. We're nerdy absolute nerds, but your market research needs are very different from my market research needs. And they think it was so smart. Because you are currently writing, you are selling subscription short stories to help build your launch list for the novel that's gonna be published And for you to go to this and have done all that pre-work sets you up so much further.'cause when you're at the event, I mean it was madness in there. So if you're going to actually meaningfully connect in person,'cause in-person connections hit differently than online ones. Yes. So you show up in person, it's a different level of connection and they've already had at least one touch point from you. So it's not some, like who the fuck are you situation? So many people could learn from this and. Plan, whatever their events are, whether they go to something and fly across the country like we did, or maybe it is local. Like I think a lot of people could practice this with their local events.' the stakes are lower, it's a lot less of a lift. Mm-hmm. They're, you're not searching through literally hundreds of vendors. I mean Yeah. Hundreds. so when you go to a local event. maybe there's a speaker featured on say like Creative Mornings in Caitlyn's Group, and you're like, well, instead of just waiting to go, it's like, who are they? I mean, I do this all the time ' cause we're nerds, right? And I'm like, who are they? I go to their Instagram, I go to their LinkedIn, I look at their website, I'm like, who are you? Where do you show up? I wanna know I'm gonna show up to enjoy listening to. I get so much more out of what they do live. And then when you introduce yourself to them after, if you choose to, you have something more interesting to say. Like, I saw that you had done whatever. It was really cool to see you do it in person here. just that little bit Yeah. Sets you apart from every other person who's like, hi, can I get your email? Like you, you immediately are different. The other thing too, especially, and this is why I do all of the pre stuff, is that it applies when people are vending, but it also applies when it's a speaker. You only have so much time with them. Because you are not allowed to be a dick and get in the way in the vending case of them making money. honestly, I had a 15 minute chat with an illustrator and it's 'cause he had a helper and he was genuinely interested in chatting with me. But I kept an eye if more people came, I just was like, stop. Take care of him and we can continue this if you want to, you know, but like, I'm never going to cock block a sale, you know? Mm-hmm. And so by, doing the work ahead of time, you are being respectful of them. And they notice, especially with speakers too, at the end, right. They get bombarded. And we've all seen somebody attempt to just keep their attention'cause they want something. They could have been building a relationship beforehand. I mean, this was one of the top criticisms on people's social posts with other attendees, lack of situational awareness. Yeah, and I know you've experienced this, I've experienced this, but you have some kind of touch point before you go. You go to the thing, the speaker finishes afterward, the crowd is around them. All you have to do at that point, you don't even have to talk to them. You can tap them on the shoulder and be like, hi, it was so good. I'm gonna follow up with you Exactly. In message. And they're like, oh, thank you. Thank you. Guess what? You just won the whole event. You just won it. You know? And I thought it was so good that you did all of that. and a great example for other people. You just did a, you know, hunger game style I won. You did. And while you were lapping it for the third time, I was having Earl Gray infused Panna cotta. Yep. All right. you and I tallied up. what kind of connections we made just so we could also sort of tally what had happened for us. you pulled out two important ones. first of all, you hosted a meetup at this event. Bravo to you. And second of all, you had. What is probably one of the best things to come out of destination events, which is the serendipity that happens when you go to these things like you think you go for one reason and it's always the serendipity. And I've experienced this many times at other, you know, larger conferences like South By You Got This Big Time like the mother load of serendipity. So do you wanna tell us about your meetup and your serendipity? About like a month out, they put out a call. Does anyone want to host meetups? And they had specific lists of things that they knew people would want. They knew that there would be calls for a heated rivalry one and AAR one a, hunger Games one, things like that. I didn't see a cozy meetup. They didn't have any genre meetups, actually. They just had specific kind of verse meetups. and I pitched them a Cozy meetup and it was was called like no Cliffhangers Loud. And it was just a space for people to share their favorite Cozy reads, readers and writers, a place to collaborate.' cause I knew I was gonna run it like a coffee parties where we, I gather all their info and I share it because a lot of the people who were coming. Are Instagram people? Like they have a Bookstagram account. And so I was like, what can I give them? And it would be a way to get more followers, tell each, and also they just love sharing recommendations. So if you could be in a room of people who love the same thing you do, that's worth it. And then for me on the forms there was like, do you want to get onto my mailing list, basically? And there was a check. I held that and it was in this Room. And it was an oasis of quiet for them on the second day. And every person who came in was just like, I'm so happy this was here.' cause I needed this. And it was funny 'cause for me I was like, it is 11 o'clock, you have had one hour and you are toasted. But it really meant a lot. so I kind of got to be this like. Oddly authority figure. and people were thanking me. Everybody ended up following me on social. They all got on my mailing list. I screenshot everything that BookCon shared, but it was, clout. It is clout because when you lead it, your relationship is always different than when you're just showing up as an attendee. Yeah. But I think what you were so smart to do is because you'd done all your pre-research. you didn't even need to research it. It was blatantly obvious how heavily weighted this event was for Smuts Yeah. And romantics. and it's like, that's fine. Like that is definitely the popular thing of the moment. I did not have a problem with it being heavily weighted that way, like some people did for the event. No, but, I would've liked maybe a little bit more diversity in genre, but like whatever I enjoy romantic and spots I don't really care. but I love that you recognize like, wait, where the cozy, because that is your genre. and you made a space to help pull out the people who belong in your space. Yeah. And then like we were, you were talking about like you never know who you're gonna meet. That's why I talked to literally everyone in every line I stood in because I've learned it's always the random meeting that is the most impactful meeting. And so I found a food stall and I, texted you and you're like, no, I'm good. And I was like, we've been laughing this thing, I need food. So I took the time to like, take a break. I got in line, I sat down at a table and this group of three came and asked if they could sit. And I was like, sure. And then I started chatting with them and one was, her books coming out in September and I kind of mentioned what I did and she wanted to know like, oh, I'm, I'm really curious, like. Here's my bookmark. Can you tell?'cause I mentioned that like I used to Ven and I've, I've got some ideas for helping people vend. can you tell what type of book it is from this marketing material? And so I looked it over and I took my best guesses and she, and all of her friends just kept looking at each other and she's like, oh my God, you got it all right. And I was like, thank you. I am good at this. I am good at branding. and as we got to talking more. They mentioned that they're best friends with, and a co-host with, Anthony Palini is the voice actor for Resand and Kingfisher in like two of the big romantic books, big narrator. And I don't do audio books, but I knew enough to know like, holy shit, Mary's gonna lose her mind. you know, they were saying like, he should really be here. And I was like, yeah, he should be. And I was like. my friend would pay that man to read the phone book to her. Yes, yes, I would. And they're like, just reach out. we'll get you in contact with him. So, so funny. We've been chatting. I just put you in touch as a super connector, you know? Yeah. and I had to explain it to my friend Cheryl, who engages in none of this material. Yes. I was like, I'm such a slut for voices and you were like, you sat down for lunch and just happened to find That's the way it works though. It is the way it works. That's the serendipity of these things. There were some narrators in attendance, but there was no narrator track. they have huge fan followings and they could have done more with them. so like these people kind of represent just more friends. I made connections with people in the booths As writer friends and collaborators for things. I specifically sought out people who worked in media that I didn't puzzle makers, card game people, D and d So that as my business grows, I, can say, oh, we chatted last year and here's this. But the more perhaps heartfelt, meaningful ones are the people. We'll probably be friends as we all kind of go through the next few years of like putting books out and things like that. Hell yeah. And how do we help each other and, for future business opportunities they might be. Guinea pigs, you know, for what I'm building. I mean Yeah. You're building the trust muscles of Yeah. Developing a relationship, which is not instant. You have to have multiple touchpoint. Mm-hmm. And yeah, it was your experiences were so good. I was so happy that you had all of those and it was worth it. Like they could have not known Anthony Palini and it still would've been an amazing, it still would've been amazing, amazing connection. It was actually really interesting because that interaction you had, because we're friends who network and talk to each other, was an additional market research touch point for me because I went in with like two very clear things. I was like, I wanna go in and get some market research validation for this convention and the number of people we know will be in attendance. I wanna know what is the prevalence of audio and narration podcasts, and so forth And I think I expected more because Audible was a title sponsor, weirdly. No, no. there was one official session that had Matt Denman the. Author writing a very popular series, dungeon Crawler, Carl and his narrator was with him. Well, that session turned out you needed to have reservations and it was full an hour before it started, so, didn't get into that one. And then later at the end of the day, there was a session hosted, a panel session hosted by a couple of podcasters who have like a. Book podcast. and because Cheryl and I were so exhausted and I'd been shut out of more than one session, by that point, I was just like, well, I try, I was just like, Nope, I think I want dinner at this point. but. Walking the amount of the event hall that I did, I did find one vendor booth and they were, creators who make audio drama podcasts. They have four of them at this point in different genres. One was a rom-com, one was like a Western one was sci-fi. Another one I think was fantasy. and they were very smart. They had the banners up, they had a giant QR code, so you just scanned it so you could subscribe to the podcast on the spot. And they make their money with dynamic ads. And so I was like, haha, market research validation. I've seen these in plenty of other places and spaces. But to see them on a convention floor like that was pretty cool. and I thought it was very smart for them. I was surprised that there weren't more like them there. it made me realize oh, y'all really don't have a home. I think maybe I need to make that home for you. Mm-hmm. So that was validation that I was looking for, and it was a small point, but it was actually pretty big point. We ended up chatting for a bit. It was really nice to chat with 'em. They shared so much information so quickly. Because so many people were walking by them because there wasn't anything to take. Yep. Although there was something to take, you could have downloaded every single one of those podcasts, on the spot and they were free. All you have to do is sit through the dynamic ads. and so I thought that was really great. I think that there's room for more of that. but also realizing that despite Audible being as big a player as they are, that there was no like dedicated narrator track. I just found that mind boggling with the popularity of audio books, like there should have been a book boyfriend. He exactly boo. And somebody posted an Instagram reel and they took a video. There's this famous narrator, I don't remember his name. he's narrated some dark romance stuff.'cause he's got like, I mean Basser, then Bass Voice. Oh, I sent that one to you. Yeah. And he's like Asian guy so he showed up to like ask a question at a q and a and a panel. So he's just attending. He's just there. And so I was like, how many others like him? Were there too though. And what a missed opportunity. so yeah, market research and then, My other really big thing was honestly reconnecting with industry people, particularly Cheryl. And so our whole goal was to wander around and catch up on behind the scenes industry gossip, which we most definitely did. and also to look at the state of publishing and where it's at and what the future potential might be. And for us it was quite a bit heartbreaking because we both have been a part of book conventions for a long time. Mine through the library lens. Hers through the publishing world. having worked for like big publishing houses like Random House, and so we have seen conventions where those publishers have an entire row. not a little square with a couple shelves. I mean, we're talking like a row. And I think that, BookCon could probably put those main publishers, on their own floor and actually do it. Right? those are our personal opinions. we're not trying to bring back the dead, but we were truly surprised that Source books was bigger than. Penguin Random House, which had been shoved together. It used to be Penguin and Random House, but now it's like all one. and Simon and Schuster was tiny, and McMillan was also tiny. And then the other publishers that I noticed were missing like Bloom. The romance publisher wasn't there, and I was so surprised. So there were a lot of, there were a lot of surprising things. So all these little bits of data that I go through the world and collect, I did see it with my own eyes and I felt like I needed to be there to see it with my own eyes.'cause if if you had gone alone and told me I would've been like, huh, what? And then I was there in person and I was like. Oh my God. this is where we're at with things, so it does feel very messy. and I felt kind of bad that Indie Alley was down in the basement basically. And I was like, yeah, we need to change that. You guys need to come on up. You need to come on up a little bit. so the last thing that you and I wanted to digest was, Just in terms of like the actual networking events, notes and patterns that we saw. my big thing was, business cards, like actual business connections were missing. So those audio drama producers, as soon as we connected, I was like, oh my goodness. I was like, do you have a card? So I'd already subscribed to all the podcasts and I said, do you have a card? And they were like, no. And I was like, how do you not have something to take away? And then she said. Yeah, we kind of forgot to do that. So they had sent a friend who was there to help them run their booth, to like give them breaks and they had had him leave the Javit Center after having to set everything up, he had left to go get them business cards. So I gave them my card. luckily I'm like you. I will go through the app before it comes down and comb through and make sure I find all the people. But I couldn't believe that they didn't have business cards. I thought, wow. I should have told them, you should really listen to our podcast. It's not working. but that happened in another booth too. There was, an author who, Cheryl was talking with in Indie Alley, and she had somebody sitting next to her and that person, and I started engaging. Well, it turned out that that person was her manager or talent manager. Oh, wow. And she and I had a wonderful conversation and I was like, do you have a card? And she was like. No, I don't have any cards on me. And I was like, girl, how do you not have cards? So I gave her my card and I thought, yeah, having something to give out is still really important. I, I don't assume that everyone's gonna have a. LinkedIn in that moment. I know you got some people in your meetup to connect via LinkedIn, which was super smart. Well, I, I'm, yes.'cause I, we have gotten my husband a gig. Yes. That also came out of the meetup. Yeah. I think for me, like I talked about the, the directory, I think that's a big one. the other thing though that I noticed. I bought five books. No, I bought four books, was given one for free. only one of those purchases got me on someone's mailing list. What? Only one? Only one. Wow. And I was like, you all, oh my God. They're not collecting email addresses. Right, exactly. That was my thought. Oh, that's painful. So I know that's a little bit different than like the networking we talk about. But I noticed it right away because I was like, and I'm taking market research on this, that you all, don't have a post-purchase follow through. And we have this in networking too, right? Mm-hmm. It's, you don't follow back up. So for all these people, like you said, you're gonna go through the list, you're gonna follow back up. Yeah. we flew back on Sunday. On Monday I pulled out all the business cards. And I sent all my emails. That I needed to. so I think it's that, it is that follow through. It's the post event, post purchase thing. Yeah. I think your note too about reading the directory Is so important. Like actually look at the directory Yep. Of exhibitors. And the sneaky thing is, here's, here's the truth. There's 25,000 people walk around. They're not gonna remember you unless you happen to be. Let's be honest, as memorable as myself and have an unhinged conversation with the person but that directory lets you find all these people you can just say, we chatted. They won't repeat. They're not gonna remember. No. So like you can be sneaky in that way, but the directory has all the information and it's, I mean, technically you paid for it. So like. Use it. Totally Use it. Make a spreadsheet, download it, like whatever, like it's yours. I don't think, I don't think it's sneaky though, Megan, to send a message to someone and say, it was so good to see you vending at BookCon. There you go. You didn't lie about anything. I flew home all the way back over here and I wanted to reach out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. I saw you were always really busy. Uhhuh, I didn't wanna interrupt you. Mm-hmm. But I really wanted to chat. So here I am now. it's a really good point. You paid for that directory. I did. I mean, the tickets by all accounts, for the things we pay for. I, I felt like the, the, the tickets to book on, and I'm privilege to say this were not terribly expensive for me. No. So we didn't do the VIP we did not do the VIP No, no, no. If you had the VIP it was like 400 bucks or something. Yeah. ours were not 400. No. but I think that, To think of it in terms of they literally gave you a list. Yep. You could have like not flown across the country and still gotten the list. I used to do that for some events I used, I didn't pay to get in. The list would be like on the website and I'd be like, yeah, thank you. I didn't need to go to that Uhhuh, you gave me the list. But yeah, I'm sneaky. you paid for it. You may as well use it. It's part of the value. Mm-hmm. If you have somebody like the way we did, you go with a friend, have the conversation like we did on the plane before it landed, I started out by asking you, I was like, what do you wanna get out of this? Mm-hmm. And it's like, not that you didn't know already, but you finally landed in the location. Yeah. And if you don't have somebody to banter with, it's like maybe you take a moment to journal. Or write some notes in the Notes app on your phone when you're alone in the hotel room that night or whatever. But before you drop into the whole event to have reminded yourself, why am I here? Like, what is my purpose? What would make me feel like I got what I needed? It was really helpful 'cause I hadn't asked myself that. I was just going. I mean you, you'd already done a ton of pre-work, but doing pre-work isn't the same thing as like, this is what I'm gonna get out of it. Correct. Because then it determines the steps you take quite literally. Mm-hmm. Because all the steps. All the steps, and there, if you took the wrong step, you'd end up in a 20 minute line to get on the elevator. Yep. Or escalator or 30 minutes for the bathroom and, but you can still network in the bathroom line. Girl, I can't believe you're networking in the bathroom line. Like this is my chance to like take a break from humans while I'm just Yeah. I met a few people who were like that and then I just left them alone. But there's some, well, I witnessed a woman almost get her arm chopped off of the elevator. So we were all having to process that in the line She kept jamming her arm to make it open. She did. She broke the elevator. Oh my God. They had to get a technician. Oh my God. I think BookCon as a whole, I know that's, I will not be back. I don't know that the same is true for you. if I go back, it'll be as a vendor, but probably not till 2028, And then I'll go with, yeah, different intentions, but. there are local events next year that I want to attend or ven at instead. Because I got what I needed for this. I know unlike a lot of the other people in Indie Alley, not to say that they did poorly, but a lot, it was their very first event. Mm-hmm. And it is not one that I want to cut my teeth on. That is a very expensive first event. So expensive. I can't even imagine how many copies of books. You would have to buy? Well, I mean, to some of their credit, I know this is not the case for every indie author, but there were a lot of them posting on Saturday night that they had sold out of their book stock. Yep. And they were like, please come by the booth. Anyway, tomorrow they were letting their people know like, I don't have anything for sale. However, we can pre-order, we have all these other things. Come I wanna talk to you. Yep. They were connecting with their fans. I thought it was very smart. Yep. There are workarounds, but yeah, I. I know the, the path I wanna build is a little bit more gradual. That's it for today's episode of The Awkward Handshake. We record at Sasquatch Media Grounds in Vancouver, Washington. I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap Design and creator of PDX Spellbound, and I'm Mary. Founder of Sasquatch Media Grounds and Sensible. Woo. You'll find links to everything we mentioned, guests, resources, and ways to connect with us in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform. That's also where you'll get updates on where we're headed next, and when we're inviting listeners like you to join us for guided networking in person and online. Don't be passive. Click the links. Pick better rooms. We'll see you there.