Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga
Hello and welcome to the Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga podcast!
Our new second 6-part series of interviews is now out, where we again talk to yoga teachers both established and emerging.
We find out what got each of them into yoga, why they became teachers and got started, the styles of practice that interest them, who are their inspirations were and plans are for the future.
Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga
YTTY11: Sarah Manning - Thrive Journey
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Hello and welcome to the Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga podcast
Today my guest is Sarah Manning, founder of Sarah Manning Yoga, and who has practiced in Singapore, China and Australia.
Described by her students as a natural teacher, Sarah combines her intuitive yoga and meditation expertise with Chinese practices such as Qi Gong and acupuncture.
She offers fertility and pre-natal workshops along with her own developed techniques such as meditation in motion for women. She has trained teachers in pre and post natal, back care and yin yoga.
Sarah has already been mentioned in this podcast series as a source of inspiration to some of our previous guests. Her storied yoga career spans three decades and to this day remains a prolific teacher and guide. Today, she joins me online from her home in Singapore.
Note: References in the discussion to the IYTA relate to the International Yoga Teachers Association, a forerunner of yoga in Australia. For 57 years, they taught and supported yoga teachers across Australia. Sadly, the IYTA ceased its operations in 2022.
You can find more about Sarah’s work with Thrive Journey at:
If you’d like to express an interest in being a guest in our next series, we can be contacted on: infoytty@gmail.com
Further related content and bonus material will be posted on our Facebook page:
Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga Podcast
Discussed links to the other threads in the yoga tapestry:
Hello, and welcome to the Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga Podcast. Today my guest is Sarah Manning, founder of Sarah Manning Yoga, and has practiced yoga in Singapore, China, and Australia. Described by her students as a natural teacher, Sarah combines intuitive yoga and meditation expertise with Chinese practices such as qigong and acupuncture. She offers fertility and prenatal workshops, along with her own developed techniques such as meditation in motion for women, and we'll touch on some of that today. She's trained teachers in pre- and postnatal yoga, back care, as well as yin yoga, as well as the more traditional Huthi yoga methods, and was linked with the IYTA. Sarah has already been mentioned in this podcast series as a source of inspiration to some of our previous guests, and I'm sure after today you'll understand why. Her storied yoga career spans three decades and to this day remains a prolific teacher and guide. Today she joins me online from her home in Singapore. Sarah, it's my privilege to welcome you to the Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga podcast. Good afternoon.
SPEAKER_01Hello, hi, and I am thrilled to have the chance to talk about things that I love. So thank you for giving me the opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Absolute pleasure of mine, and um thank you for accepting uh the invitation. Before we get to this uh some of the formative sides of your story, and um we're definitely going to do that, we're gonna dive into that. I I noticed on your website that it states nurture, educate, empower. What do those words mean to you and and how do they resonate within and develop you into the teacher you've become?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, well, they are the they they summarize my whole approach. Um, to me, yoga is a service to others. And so if I can, it doesn't matter who it is, it could be the nutter on the bus, actually. My husband despairs. Um, but nurture and support and guide and help um is is kind of my middle name, I guess. Um, but in my opinion, there's no point in um helping if you then don't empower. Um, if you don't, it's a bit like that that phrase, you know, don't give people fish, give teach them how how to fish. Um, and I believe in yoga there's I I really want people to tune into their own story, their own body, their own intuition, because that's where the magic lies for their practice. Um, and so and I guess that comes from the very first um teacher who in who actually inspired me to become a teacher. Um so she was an American, she was preparing for a yogi from America to uh visit Japan at the time. Her name was Bumi, um, real name Harriet Russell, and this was part of Kropalo, um, the biggest ashram at the time. This is in the 1990, I guess. Um, and basically she believed as a woman, first of all, this so this is this it comes down to being a woman in a man's environment, which really yoga was, um, and said, No, notice what's going on for you today and make it yours. And so um my mission is to is to give that invitation to give you permission to if you want to just lie down on your mat and just put your feet up and just listen to my voice, and if that is what nurturing means to you today, then that's what it needs to be. So empowering means I I give you permission to lie on that mat and not do um the the handstands and backflips that everyone else is doing.
SPEAKER_00Uh the facilitating nature and the connectedness of women sharing the space together and feeling safe and um accepted really then enables that empowerment. Oh, maybe it provides empowerment for them to then start realizing their journey. So I got that right.
SPEAKER_01Totally, totally. Well, I I think it it comes down to um women do have slightly different needs to what was historically a male practice. Um and as you know, uh as I've gone on my journey, um we're starting to get the right vocabulary which can then honor those needs. So whether it's to do with um cyclic mapping, um, you know, in your in your monthly cycle, um, when you are menstruating, well, we had very clear instructions, you shouldn't do A, B, and C, mostly in versions. Um, but it's so much more than that. Because energetically, it's where we go inward, it's where we tap, it's where we go to that red tent, and we just sit with other women and sit with with our intuition and notice, chart our path from that moment. So um, yeah, absolutely, giving women permission to to be intuitive. Uh, and I and I think it comes down to one of the one of my pet subjects is we have a and I use the Chinese terms that they use the term yang and yin. Okay, and yang is very active, it's goal-oriented, it's achievement focused. Um, I am working towards enlightenment, and I'm going to have the discipline to to do it this way. Um, and I'm going to judge, and I'm going to, yeah, it's all about calculating and judging, very macho way of looking at life. Um, and then we have the going inward and being creative and intuitive, and it's softer, darker, more inward, and ultimately um in the middle, there is this knife edge precision of the balance of both. And when we hit that knife edge, that's when magic happens. And I would say every yoga pose is the same thing. We have this structure, we have the grounded, we have the connection with the earth and the activation providing that safe stability within the pose. And then all of a sudden, we get this invitation to just open and allow and let the heart guide the process. And to me, that's when we hit the magic within an asana, where we have the balance between the structure and the opening. And if we can draw our students to that awareness within a pose, then it is possible to take that out into our daily lives. And very often for for women, our our nurturing path has taught us to just keep giving and giving and giving and nurturing and looking after everybody else's needs, and loading that into your own system. Whereas, so that's the very yin way of living. But to find that sense of joy, we also need to bring in those boundaries and the structure into our lives where we're saying, no, no, I can't do that today. And you know, just just carving out uh and and doing a more macho uh approach to and bringing balance to the two. And it's not just for women because guys also they also need to have balance. So they might have this big judgmental, goal-oriented madness going on, but at some point finding that time for peace in the mind and allowing creativity and inspiration to come in, um, that's when they too will find that sense of joy.
SPEAKER_00That is that just the course of time and the experience you gain, or is it did you have an epiphany moment?
SPEAKER_01If we could just I think it comes from being a female engineer in a man's world, then being so so you know, I although I had an engineering background, I then got married to a very ambitious, strong-minded husband, and so it became his career path that drove our movement from pillar to post, which disempowered um my career, obviously. Uh, and uh as I then stepped into a parenting role, and he was still chasing that very, very um adventurous, exciting career. Um, I so, in order for there to be balance in our home, we had this very strong yang energy, and so my role became even more the foundation and the structure so that my children were also able to feel safe and and explore and um do what they needed to do. Whereas, you know, it would have been so tempting to to add to the yang energy in our home and cause um a whole load of disturbance and stress within the home. So um, yeah, learning uh to find that balance. And and of course, now that my children have flown and you know uh husbands are not quite as career focused when they're in their 60s, thankfully. And so now I'm actually experiencing this opportunity to find my time and my space to be um to put boundaries there and and and to and to judge and keep keep growing and and having a path. Um so so yes, it's it's been a bit of a life journey, really.
SPEAKER_00And so the the courses and the techniques that we you're developing now, and there was the one here that was being mentioned a bit before, the meditation in motion for women, is that a relatively new concept for you, or is it something you always had percolating? I'll do that one day, or how'd that come out?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so meditation in motion. Meditation in motion actually originates from Kropalo right back at the beginning. Um, and so Yogi Amarit Desai was uh recognized as a yogi through his meditation in motion. And what Yogi Amarit Desai uh his his path had been, first of all, he learnt what all of these asanas felt like and and and practiced lots and lots for years. And he achieved enlightenment by using his intuitive body, his intuitive mind, to decide which posture follows which posture in his practice of that day. So obviously, it requires us to make a movement and then sit with it and then decide, well, what's the next movement? Um, and so you know, you you have this library of of knowledge of how it feels in the body and in the mind and energetically, and so um the intention is to be sufficiently quiet in the mind to be able to decide what comes next. Um, so it's not it's not actually mine at all. Um, but what I you know to me it's it's part of the journey of recognizing how your body feels, recognizing how you feel emotionally, and that taps into your hormonal environment and what's going on in your body today, um, and deciding what is the right practice for you that will enable you to come off your mat feeling in that balance, on that groove, um, either uplifted or calmed down, depending on where you're at. And I think women are particularly well suited to that.
SPEAKER_00Um, definitely, in in the connected safe space that you create.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. So if you actually look at the hormone symphony throughout your um a menstrual cycle, um that that communicates to you like a sixth sense of what you need. And so during the actual menstruation itself, going inward and quieter poses, so we're not doing standing balances and we're not doing backflips and big opening. Um, very often um there's aspects of pain um related to menstruation, and so we kind of curl in and we want to apply warmth to the belly, we want to apply pressure to the belly, um, and so that's kind of what we would expect um as a as a as a as a man looking in on a woman. But it's even more exciting than that because when we are ovulating, we are ready to take lots of risks. I'm gonna be flying, balancing on one hand, I'm gonna be doing really amazing the Instagram picks. Uh well, that wouldn't normally happen any other time of my month. And then as our hormones then again shift, we'll notice that we become more angry and more that the heat in our body manifests. Um, so that sort of anger pre-menstruation is again an aspect where we can use that to take us into postures which are vigorous and strong. So, so yeah, at every at every every single day within a menstrual cycle feels different. And then I'd like to add on to that um each student. So this is a bit like um the the teachings of Deskacha, who basically says every practice um it fits the person, basically. Um, and we start by working on the breath, and the breath is our access to um our intuition. So so every pose is guided by the breath in his work. Um, and you know, it it that to me is is is kind of very aligned to to what I'm suggesting. And so if you've had, if you've been up all night with a a two-year-old that's been, I don't know, unhappy, whatever, uh, a baby that's teething, or your teenager has been out till after midnight, you know, you're gonna be coming to the mat in a very different aspect um to your neighbor. And just having that permission to honor where you're at is just huge.
SPEAKER_00And you're managing to achieve that through bigger classes in in-person classes as well as online, or um so well, these days I don't teach so many um in-person classes because I travel so much.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but but you're right. Um I think being pregnant when I did my IYTA teacher training um meant that the very first group of students that I was teaching were all pregnant. You know, I I I it's what it you you teach what you know best, right? And so um you have a class of maybe 12 students, and you've got some that are in second trimester and bouncing off the walls, and that I tell you, you feel a million dollars. You know, you've got energy coming out through your ears. And then we've got those that have the back pain, and that they are really slow and really feeling their way through their body. And then we have those that are falling apart, they are due to deliver any moment, their pelvis is completely unstable, um, and there are a lot of things they shouldn't do. Yeah, and then you've got those other students that have um baracous veins, or they've got morning sickness, or you know, you've got all of these other ailments to kind of juggle. And so, as a yoga teacher, I got into the habit of for every pose, we would do something gentle, appropriate for everybody to start with, and it's it was classic IYTA. We do a vinyasa to say hello to the muscles, to prepare ourselves with that picture of how it's going to be. And so there were nearly always three things happening in my class at any one time. Um, and they were all doing their own version of the pose. So taking a triangle pose, for instance, we would start, let's let's work with the the most challenging student. Well, we have a bent knee, and we might have uh an elbow even on that knee, and it's a very simple, very structurally sound um pose. And then we might have those that are not quite needing that, but they they need to have a really strong support of that lower hand um to get that opening of the chest. And then finally, those that are really flying, the hand comes off the leg and they're that they're working hard. So I guess um I got into the habit of always giving three versions of the pose um and using it as the vinyasa walking through. So we would do each pose twice, and people would then choose uh which version they wanted to do, and also have the permission to go back if they needed it.
SPEAKER_00So, Sarah, how'd all begin for you?
SPEAKER_01Well, um, I guess I've already covered this in that um I was living in Japan, I had struggled so hard. Um, so I'd lived in four different countries it within eight years, and really only managed to live the dream um for two of those, you know, and the dream was to be a functioning, successful female engineer in a man's world. Um, and it was not terribly satisfying. Um, and there was an or an enormous amount of anger and frustration and feeling very lost as to well, is this it? Am I really just the foundation of my husband's career? Is that as big as I become? Um and yoga, the door kind of opened, and it was kind of like um a sparkly staircase. It was just a sense of joy of coming to to be me to no longer not I I didn't want to be just Steve's wife. I wanted to be Sarah Manning, and I needed an identity, and I needed something that I could be passionate about, and as it's turned out, yoga has so much depth and so much breadth that um there's no end to the education opportunities and reflection um that we can bring to this art, and so it has been a lifelong joyful celebration. Adventure, opening up this this sense of of joy in my life as uh and and and being me uh and being able to say, oh hello, I'm Sarah. I'm a yoga teacher, um, was really important. And it just rescued me at uh a dark time, really.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good on you. That's fantastic. And the the sparkly staircase, and and you continue to walk up the thing to this.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. I I don't stop. Um, so one of my favorite teachers, and I know you're going to come to this, but I just want to show you um Bernie Clark's latest book on prana, and I'm going, oh my god, this is amazing! Wow, um, and all of the research that he has put into his study of prana and qi, and you know, just finding more ways of communicating my message to my students. So, yeah, it's it it never ends, does it?
SPEAKER_00That is marvelous. I'm gonna put a link into the descriptions on this episode for people to be able to go and look that up. I might have a bite myself. I had to see that coming out. Uh I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, his book is is I wouldn't say it's easy. Um, if you want, I I recommend you know, read a chapter and then just sort of sit on it and notice how it it so it's all about yoga history, the history of yoga and the different um stages of philosophy in yoga. So it's not an easy story, um, but woven into that is the story of energy, vital force, uh, and what it meant in the different ages of the yoga history.
SPEAKER_00Pressing all that buttons now.
SPEAKER_01It's it's it's a it's a it's yeah, it's uh an ad um an ambitious story, an ambitious book.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Oh, that's fantastic. I'll be definitely reading that. That's uh right up my alley. Prana Prana, energy, vital force. All these words are just um words I live by every day. Um being and the engineer, I I I see postural movements and I see connection, the connectivity as geometrical aspects of reality that you're uh it's a you know, a trick of Nazi you said before triangle is a geometry of you interacting with your reality, with the environment around you and the energies therein, and and they complement and they push and they give the qi gong that you studied, um, and maybe Tai Chi of the Qi Gong perhaps has an aspect of this ebb and flow and the yin and yang that's embedded with every movement and the correct and their and their geometric.
SPEAKER_01Yes, absolutely. And then we add on even more when we start. So so I think the other aspect of of being uh as you've as I've got a bit older, frankly, and the body doesn't want to do the handstands and backflips, um, it is natural to evolve into a curiosity about energy and the mind. So, you know, it is a natural progression to move through the eight limbs, progressively focusing more on the deeper layers. And so um teaching yin yoga, for instance, and fee so so the the Americans have this horrible word which is rebound, which I don't like actually, but the concept is we stress the connective tissue in a particular path, and then we come out of the pose after about five minutes, and then we feel using the breath, how energy is moving through the body now, and so the concept of freeing the movement of qi through the body um is is is what we want you to understand to sort of feel um and acknowledge, and then if we can then add on, so for instance, um I often use the qigong uh water breath, which of course is descending and cooling, and it's a perfect breath within a yin yoga pose because it's about descending and allowing gravity to do the work, and it's very simple in through the nose is passive, purse your lips and blow out softly and as slowly as you can. Some people call it the golden thread breath. And so um, in my qigong, when I'm teaching breathing in the morning, um we actually do these different breathing techniques and then feel are we more grounded? Is there a sense of heaviness in the shoulders? Um, and sometimes we will breathe and it's the um fire breath. Um and so we're then looking for the sense of lift and the sense of elevation and the dryness within the body. So, you know, we we tap into well, what how does the body feel is is a constant question within my classes.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. And it's placent in each movement. And I love the way you use the qigong. Uh Katie Brown, of course, uh uses qigong with her teaching as well.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Katie, for introducing me to Sarah for this interview. Um IYTA, you mentioned, and that was uh a formative time for you and your yoga teaching and yoga practice.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Love, love, love IYTA. I think all of us, every single trainee of their program, their life changed. Their practice completely changed. Um phenomenal training over a whole year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, mentored and supported, challenged to not only hear the lecture, but then go away and formulate, read as wide as you could, and then formulate your own position um on whether it was to do with uh the gunas or whether it was related to the anatomy of the bones or whatever it was. Um just the because it was done over a period of a year, um, it gave students the opportunity not just to receive information, but to then massage it and then speak their version of it. Um, and I can see why IYTA stuck to their guns and said, I'm sorry, we cannot do 200-hour training in that way. It just will completely destroy the magic. And um, sticking to that authentic, um, this is the magic, this is what is making our teachers special. Um, ultimately it destroyed it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. We we were authentic to our beliefs, and there will always be a time when things grow and then diminish. And by perpetuating something that's just a cobbled together compromise doesn't give the potential for the next growth to happen.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And something I just thought about eight limbs of yoga, we can we we we know what they are, but asana is such a developing engine and driving force for women, I'll say for now, to be able to go back to the niyama, their in internal cells, and uh enhance it, mature that for their yama, their external interaction to be calmed and to be balanced. So instead of just going that way to samadi, you're actually getting the you're coming back and enveloping the whole thing through asana and through movement, through this ability to generate awareness within yourself to then enrich this way. Is that okay to say it like that?
SPEAKER_01Uh, totally agree with you, yes. Um, so um our mission as yoga teachers is to develop actually all the layers uh as best we can in every pose. Um and so so I'm also a yoga therapist, right? And we work a lot with the five layers, the kosher. And um, so we have physical energy, emotions, intellect, spirit. Um, and so every yoga pose I teach, we start with an awareness of the physical body, and then we come more into the breath and then sit with how we're feeling, and then maybe have a visualization or a pause, a bit of space, um, where we can start to explore that sense of celebration in the body. Um, and so every class is a is trying to accomplish five things all at once. Um so but you wanted to also reflect that back to our community and how we respond to the community, and I think this is something that is um more about women naturally, intuitively, naturally, we are social beings, yeah. Intuitively, naturally, we put the community first before our own needs. That is innate, that is what we have um through our evolution learnt helps us to thrive. Uh, and frankly, we could do with an awful lot more of that. Um, so many of our young women today are living in this macho I can do everything mode. And while we're desperately in need of a community, a village, particularly when it comes to parenting, um, parenting of young children, parenting of teenagers, you know, we need to have that community also looking over our shoulder and watching our children and supporting them at the same time. So um taking what we learn and on the mat and taking it out into the community is is um very important, absolutely. Um, and I would say that's innate in in women um to do that.
SPEAKER_00Well, women can be a real driving force in that regard, in terms of reforming uh the way a society is structured and the way it thinks and what's focusing on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I mean some of that now the tragedy, I we're not only gonna can I just say one thing that's political and then I will park it to one side because the the Margaret Thatcher female um who actually created um a lot of the issues that we're now facing today. So whether it was Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher, the idea that we are going to become more macho and um competitive and judged, um, and we are not going to support the weaker ones in our society. Um, we must only work on being competitive and getting ahead. Um that has had severe consequences on our society. Um, and I'm grateful that we are now becoming a little bit more aware of the needs of the weaker um members of our society that need our help. So, yeah, even in society, we need that balance. You know, and I and I think when the balance goes off, our society um suffers. And so um through our yoga, maybe we can make a small difference um to help our society come back to that sense of balance once again.
SPEAKER_00Maybe all that's still forming, maybe it's the age of Aquarius, who knows?
SPEAKER_01Maybe it's just balance. Well, apologies, I've probably taken you slightly off track, but um as I say, I'm what I'm looking for is to bring that sense of harmony, that balance of yin and yang, um, from um first of all on the mat and then out into the world to being authentic individuals. Um, and that is what is the biggest impact we can have on our society around us. And so I don't actually sit on street corners with a placard, I confess. Uh, and I don't stand on an orange box at Parliament Square either. Um no, speakers call we lead by being authentic.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And it was a hallmark of the IYTA, again, I'll say that was authenticity, um, safety within the practice, but authenticity and um bringing your own self out of your um of your of its shell to let it be seen. Um shine. Shine. Let's let's go shiny, shiny. Yeah. I think you've achieved that quite well. And I think you've done that really well. The one of the questions I ask is about what they what you get as a reward, uh, what rewards you in your teaching. And I think you've answered that a few times. So I don't need to necessarily ask, but it it's clear that the reward you have gotten from the work you do is just that, is is giving these people this um spark and this edge and this capability for a better life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Lovely, nicely put.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. We touched a little earlier on inspirations. We could go there now. You've meant already mentioned the a teacher that you had was an inspiration for you. Um, but who else inspired Sarah Manning in her yoga journey?
SPEAKER_01Ooh, well, so definitely Bernie Clark, because he's an engineer. And he also was a businessman, right? He he would go out and he was selling engineering products. He's China uh from Canada. And so his clarity and ability to crystallize things that were very complicated and very detailed, um was definitely an inspiration. And his um his following of all things engineering in terms of energy in the body um has been an inspiration. Um, and in fact, I I met him in China, and um so when he was teaching the yin yoga teacher training with me, um, he really only just brushed on the meridians of the body. It was a very soft sort of well, just notice that. Um, but as a parting gift, I gave him this this um doll with all of the meridian lines on it. And together we've been pursuing this um the blending of of engineering, the blending of Chinese, of Indian and Western science. That that blending um is fascinating, isn't it? Um, because we're taking language and concepts from three different places and then presenting what our body tells tells us uh as being our story our uh and and an opportunity for students to explore it too and question to. So definitely Bernie continues to be an inspiration. Um I think Anne Nakoda, um, she is uh my mentor from IYTA teacher training days. So this is 30 years ago, she's been my steady mentor all these years. She's still here in Singapore, um, and she's Irish, and her ability, her discipline of practice um is a real inspiration. Uh, and I aspire to be as dedicated as she is to the practice. So um Anne, uh very, very special lady, and um I think quite a few IYTA yoga teachers might remember the conference that we did in Singapore, and it was led very, very graciously by Anne Nakoda, and I was lucky to be part of her team.
SPEAKER_02Lovely.
SPEAKER_01Um, and I think um my third one, third and last inspiration, but I can there's lots more, but um Mary Louise Parkinson is um uh I worked with Mary Louise when we were developing the pre and postnatal yoga teacher training for IYTA, and then she became um president, and um she her enthusiasm for life um and positivity um is again uh an absolute inspiration. Um so yeah, uh and I of course still keep in touch with her as well.
SPEAKER_00Lovely. That's lovely. You've had some really strong inspirations there, and some that you learnt from, but others you've got a sort of a shared interest and and a passion with. I think Bernie Clark, for example, I'm sure I'm gonna read that and want to go down that path myself with my own engineering. I just sitting here um looking forward to doing that, um, because it's something that's really within. But we we have these these forces within our lives that sort of shine lights, so they turn switches on and they reveal, they open a door and say, Why don't you go and look in that room and see what you'll learn now in there? And um it's it's part of the I call it the the tapestry that we have. We we're all weave we woven in and we all have an opportunity to be a thread within it and and and share the story, don't we?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
SPEAKER_00That's lovely. When you're in Japan, you mentioned Japan earlier, and at at such a time when you were getting into what became a yoga business. How how did those lo those sorts of communities react to yoga? Was it an easy thing to do to start teaching there or elsewhere? Were you in the Middle East or Australia or how how did it be?
SPEAKER_01So in Japan, um, I was merely a student, not not um not a trained teacher yet. And certainly at that time the the community that was open to yoga would have been the expats, the the foreigners living there. Um so I was living in Singapore when I did my teacher training with IYTA. Um, and I would say here in Singapore the main barrier is Christianity. Um here in Singapore, many of the um the locals are first generation Christians, and um the churches here are very big and um strong, and I suspect that first generation converts really need things to be very black and white. Uh, we also have to respect and honor the fact that we live in a society which is on the outskirts, there's an awful lot of um superstition, uh particularly Malaysian and Indonesian energy of curses and so forth. So um, you know, they they have a very black and white attitude. Whereas I come from the UK, we've been Christians. For well, thousands of years, you know, thousands of years. And so, you know, we've got a particularly the the Church of England, we kind of very open to um interpretation. And I would say that IYTA gave me an opportunity to reflect back at my upbringing and increase my awareness of the spiritual. But what I'm seeing in Singapore and and and continue to see is this this door closed because those people are not ready to have a more open relationship with with their with their religion. So so I'd say that's my my biggest um problem here. Um China, so I lived five years in Shanghai. Um and actually my time there was not really dedicated to yoga, it was dedicated to charitable projects. Um so I kind of took on a leadership role to support, so taking wealth and and what we had to offer as um very privileged people who were living there and supporting as many people as we could, um, whether it was building schools or channeling money to the building of a school, um, whether it was supporting um orphanages or or whatever. So I would say that in China at that time there was no there was no space for yoga within the local populace. Um, they were in survival mode. Um whereas within the expat community, yeah, we there were people who needed to find their feet and find their authentic voice, and maybe through um the support of the women's yoga that we offered, um, there was the potential there to to support that that learning. Um, but so so I would say that um the yoga there was lesser. Um, and my biggest projects in terms of yoga teaching have been in Australia, where I found uh tremendous enthusiasm and openness and questioning, um, and uh a really vibrant community.
SPEAKER_00It's a real, well, let's give it a go attitude, isn't it, down here? And uh let's just try that out and see what it's like.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, and I think you're such a melting pot. Um, and so there's no absolutes really. Um, you know, there's no black and white uh guidelines, it's just okay. There's there's there's there's this whole uh myriad of choices of pathways to to follow.
SPEAKER_00Do you think the proliferation of online and all the class online makes things easier? And we're having this conversation online, of course, but um in two different countries. But do you think it diminishes the quality of because it's so much more widespread now, or is it opportunity?
SPEAKER_01Um, I have a very generous um aspect to this. Um we are inviting all of our students to come down a path of awareness and open-heartedness by feeling totally grounded and safe and authentic authentic in who they are. If we see that as being our mission, then um inviting someone to take a baby step as opposed to a big stride is still of value. And so um I would say that um just a simple practice of honoring the body is going to change probably the food you eat that day, it's gonna change what time you decide to go to bed, it's gonna change the kind of reading material you choose, the films you watch, the people you spend time with. So um we are we're we're we are servants to our student body. And frankly, looking at some of well, let's take Australian women. Oh my goodness, so many of your Australian women, they run companies, they manage the home, they manage the kids, they also have parents with dementia, which somehow they also put into that equation. And you know, I'm I'm spending chunks of time working with these women because they have really nasty, um uh uncomfortable menopause journeys. And I'm going, well, it's because you're not in balance, you you are so in the yang domain, and I I give you permission to come to the quietness of just lying on the mat and allow those tears to flow, which are your emotional release, and it could just be that so one of the reasons I'm I'm seeing so much of a growth in sound healing and sound bathing, yeah. And that's just giving people permission to lie on the mat. And it's huge, right? So um I I I think that um if if we can just give them a baby step which draws draws them down that path, um, as your servant, I am grateful for what what you've chosen, which is to spend maybe only half an hour with me online. Um and that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And so it is an opportunity then just to get the message and the into as many people as I can. And there's another yoga teacher I've sort of cottoned on to recently, Sadhguru, we will say, even if you're doing it wrong, you'll get something from it.
SPEAKER_01Well, here's the thing, you see, in yoga, we have the very yang forms of yoga, which say you must have this foot exactly like that, and you must have this activation and you must have this corrective movement in your pelvis. And I am the right person to do this for you. Um, so this very um uh structured judgmental style of yoga, um it has to be done in person, but when you come to a more intuitive form of yoga, particularly um yin yoga, um we cheat vigorously. And the Singaporeans hate the word cheat, but it's basically you are honoring your needs. And so um, you know, online I I so so obviously there are the safety concerns, and one of the things that IYTA was so big about was how do we make this safe? Um, and so there are limits to what we can teach online for the number of students that are there in front of you. Uh, and so as a teacher teaching online, we have to make constant judgment calls, and we will therefore not be taking any of those students in a place which is going to cause risk. Um so we we, you know, the these online situations, um, there are safety risks, um, and therefore, you know, we we will steer away from those arm balances and the more dramatic poses because they're not safe, and we don't we can't see our students. Um, so it does dramatically limit the choices of what we can teach. Um and as I say, even in a class situation, we might make uh we might have a plan, but we actually choose to do something different because so, for instance, if I'm teach I teach a yin class online and I've got a pregnant student that keeps coming, and I'm going, pregnant, your body's falling to bits, and you want to do yin, and I'm very twitchy. Um, and so the whole class gets a very, very safe practice, um, which is geared around that one student. Um but she's not pregnant forever, and you know, we will work around that. So so so, yes, there are limitations to what we can teach online, um, but I I really um as I say, I see it as an opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely fantastic. Yeah, uh you I want to think it is too, and I'm hoping that um over time you see a lot of this these courses and these people taking on things that um they continue to sh um follow their curiosities and and find out more and and the reasoning behind it and what it can bring through to them and and then and then experience it and practice it.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, so we like to think that just by working online to start with, this is a stepping stone. Yeah, and those people for whom it really resonates, they will seek out somebody that they can go to a deeper level with um in person.
SPEAKER_00You know, you talked about before in in in class, and if you're on a map, you're essentially just it's a practice for how you can then take all that into your everyday life. Isn't it that that's our goal, isn't it? To be able to have a serene aspect and countenance in all that we do, in all that we people we meet and interact with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Um, what we're trying to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's the goal, right? The end goal is to have a society that actually likes each other, or certainly gets on.
SPEAKER_00At least tolerate and get along with each other.
SPEAKER_01We can put up with everybody, we can cope. We are centered, we are grounded, and we can just ride with the knocks.
SPEAKER_00With what's happening with Sarah just now, she's you're still you're doing you're offering courses, you're offering classes, uh, you're doing online.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, the things that give me joy are teacher trainings, um, because I have fertile ground for lots of questions and lots of uh inquiry. Um, so working with teachers or training instructors, um, these days it tends to be more um qigong, um, where the interest is. Um, so whether it is a yoga teacher, so one of the things that I've loved in my Qigong training is that so we have the pranayam, which when we did IYTA had all of these alarm bells and and safety concerns, and don't you dare try to lift the kundalini, whatever next. Um, and this idea that we are playing with fire, which is true.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01However, um, we do want to draw our students in in towards that that knowledge and understanding, and I found that the qigong is a really soft, accessible practice, which is a stepping stone in towards a pranayam understanding. So um, qigong basically we start off by releasing all tension in neck and shoulders so that we do diaphragmatic breathing. What's you know, to me, that's that's uh the beginning of every yoga class. I want to reduce tension in the neck and shoulders. Yeah. Um, an understanding of diaphragmatic breathing is huge when it comes to healing. Um, and then they have these wonderful soft practices where we have the bandas, but they're not that these are soft, and they um enable us to play with the the pauses and the kumbakas in our in our pranayam, but it's guided by movement. So, you know, you you breathe in and push your hands forwards, and then pause and take your arms overhead, and then sweep the arms and exhale, and it's a movement, it's graceful, and the rate breathing ratios, we're not sitting, we're not sitting and counting, we're moving the arms. So um the qigong has definitely for me been a way of um getting my students uh looking at the power of the breath to help them in their daily lives. How do I become calm and grounded? How do I lift my energy? I'm so tired, I'm struggling with fatigue every day, you know, working on the energy body and how that has an impact so significantly on the mind and mental health. Um, so um I do, as I say, I do more uh qigong training to yoga teachers as well as the general public because it's so accessible. Uh it's it's very simple movements, simple concepts. But as with all arts, there it takes a lifetime to master. Um, whether it's related to the pelvic lift, whether it's related to the um the throat lock at the appropriate time, these things are um part of uh qigong. It's not just wafting your arms about, um, and then taking your mind on the journey of the well, they are the same thing. The the the the spinal energy path is also part of their spinal, their energy awareness. So some of their meditations are just super um and useful as a yoga teacher, um, as well as, as I say, accessible to the general public. Um, I'm doing yin yoga teacher training, uh, which again is energy um and ground-based and intuitive and lots of cheating. Um, and I teach online. So my mission is to support women's wellness through all the life stages. So whether it's a teenager riding those hormonal chaotic, whether it's acne or whether it's um pain in menstruation, um, whether it's to do with just feeling so lost as to who you are. Um, and then all the way through um fertility, the fertility journey was something I was very much involved with um for the last eight years, helping people who are struggling on their IVF journey or their natural conception journey. And then, uh, all of my life I've worked with women who were pregnant or postnatal and supporting um so women has been very much part of my journey, and uh and it still continues to be my passion to give women tools that they can bring into their daily lives to make baby steps in the direction towards that sense of balance and harmony.
SPEAKER_00For those that are inspired by Sarah today, where where can they find you and and how would they engage some of the work?
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, the easiest way is to reach out um through Thrive Journey. So the the website is Thrive Journey. Uh, we're planning to put that on a phone app as well. But basically, um you can come to my either breathing or qigong classes or the yin, the yoga flow is more of a Hatha practice working on moving uh the blood and lymph, particularly through the pelvis, um, or the restorative. So I teach classes online through Thrive Journey.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic. That's the best way to get in touch with Sarah. Incidentally, Katie Brown mentioned Thrive Journey. She's uh involved with Thrive as well.
SPEAKER_01She is, she is, she's our creative director because she's a journalist. Yes, she she's um she's a journalist, she has the um, she also has much greater business sense than I've got. Um, so I yeah, I I mean I you know if people uh invite me to teach, and basically they do the hard work, and I just roll up and go, okay, let me teach. So um I've I've been very, very blessed to to be able to stay focused on the teaching, whereas I do realize that most yoga teachers today they have to learn that this is a business, uh, and um learning how to promote yourself and learning all of these tools that are behind the scenes these days. It's a huge task. Um uh and I as I say, I'm sort of sort of I'm 60 plus, right? So um there comes a time in your life when you just do the things that make your heart sing, and the others just become a bit too difficult.
SPEAKER_00Too difficult, yes. You got a you got a great website, you've got a great online presence. Um, I think you're doing quite well, actually. I think on the beast.
SPEAKER_01Oh yes, well, I I tell you, it's it's it's a task because it's not just um getting followers, it's about feeding, feeding the beast. Um you have to be you have to allocate so much time to it. And you might have 500 followers, and then you want to run a retreat, and you post, and nothing comes back. And the amount of work that goes into social media, personally, the people that come to any workshop or retreat are people that know me.
SPEAKER_03Right?
SPEAKER_01So it's still that networking that makes the difference, and in fact, um, another one of our IYTA um super teachers is Linda Stevens. She left to go to the UK and she was creating this enormous menopause online support. Um, but I checked in with her um um recently, and she said, Well, actually, I'm gonna keep that on the back burner, but I'm actually gonna focus more in the people who are on my doorstep in Farnham, um, which is just outside London. And she yeah, she gets so much joy from working with with in-person connections. And she says, Actually, I I'd rather do that and and not earn as much money um because it gives me so much more joy and it's it's less hard.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Well, it's it's more direct. We all have a little different accent, don't we?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, you bring your whole, I mean one of the things that IYTA basically said was bring you and your things that you are passionate about, and bring yoga to that. And it was just such a uh an invitation.
SPEAKER_00It was yeah, isn't that lovely?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's about being authentic, isn't it? Really? Yeah, yeah, you know, I this is who I am, and I'm gonna teach you. Well, actually, I'm gonna teach you my practice, um, what I know from my own practice and my own heart. Um, and and we had full permission to do that in in IYTA. And to be honest, that's a very yin, very feminine um uh permission to be given. It wasn't structured, it has to be this way.
SPEAKER_00How did that come about, can I ask? In the IYTA? Who made that?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I think it was led by women around the kitchen table.
SPEAKER_00Roma Blair.
SPEAKER_01Uh right from the beginning. So, you know, Roma Blair, she basically pulled people around the kitchen table, and that's what it was. So um, and you know, the 60s was a very liberating time. Um, and Roma Blair herself, what a character. I don't know if you ever did you meet her? No, no, she was a screen, so she came to Singapore, she must have been oh, about 85, and she was meeting an old flame, and she was dressed to the nines, made up, hair puffed up, she was tottering in high-heeled shoes with a flouncy, gorgeous dress, and she basically that was authentic Roma Blair, and she was true to herself, and yet under all of that was this generosity of heart and enthusiasm, and and so you know, it even even into her 80s, she was really authentic, and and at a time when to be that prolific meant books and it meant pamphlets and brochures, and push it, push the message, push the message, keep it out there, um and travel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Having to go to places to get someone interested in their yoga. Um I went to the closing, the closing circle of the IYTA, and there's a chap at the back, you'd maybe know the name, um, talked of times where you drive into Queensland because someone had an interest in some yoga, so you'd go and teach it to them. You drive to Queensland.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but now lazy sods we are.
SPEAKER_00Pick a few buttons, and here she is, Sarah, in Singapore.
SPEAKER_01You're right, you're right. But then we had a lot more time in in that uh in that time. And uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Sarah, we could talk all night, I think.
SPEAKER_01But uh yes, I suspect so. But but next time, make sure I've got a glass of wine here. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we can we can certainly thank you so much for your time today.
SPEAKER_01It's been my pleasure, any time at all. I as I say, just just ring and say, Sarah, have you got 10 minutes for a chat? Um, yeah, always up for a chat. All right, have a good evening.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. We hope you enjoyed hearing about Sarah's incredible yoga story. And if her words of empowerment inspired, please do not hesitate to reach out to us. Our chat with Sarah is this podcast way of helping kick off yoga week here in Australia, and we hope that you'll be able to be involved in events during the week in your own way. The Yoga Australia website has a number of events that may be of interest. Our final interview in this second series of the Yoga Teachers Talking Yoga podcast will be with Robin Lynch from the Perfect Health Center, and is going to be released next Sunday to coincide with the International Day of Yoga. Like Sarah, Robin has got a lot to talk about, and we know you'll also enjoy this great discussion. We look forward to seeing you then.