The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
This podcast’s purpose is to give a history of women who have stepped into leadership roles within the National Association of Letter Carriers, and discuss the leaders of now and into the future.
The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
Morgan Mo Harrington
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This episode features branch secretary, Morgan Mo Harrington, from Branch 246, Southwest Michigan.
Welcome to the History of Female Leadership in the NALC podcast. I'm Craig Schaefer. I'm a city carrier in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, branch 1015. Today I am honored to have a sister from Michigan. If you don't mind, go ahead and introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, hey, Craig. My name is Morgan Harrington. I am from Branch 246. We are the Southwest Michigan Letter Carriers. And I've been a member of the NALC since 2014.
SPEAKER_03Right. So if you don't mind, let's kind of back it up a little bit. And if you don't mind, kind of go into your early life and what brought you to the Postal Service to begin with.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah, that's a weird story. So I struggled with anxiety really, really bad in high school, to the point that I eventually had to drop out of high school. Eventually got myself into a decent enough position. I got my GED, started attending college, and nothing was really working out for me. And the anxiety ramped itself back up. So I was really struggling with just holding a job. Pretty much what I was diagnosed with was agoraphobia, which is a fear of public places. So holding a job was super difficult for me. And my aunt was a rural carrier, and she said, Why don't you try the postal service before you go filing for disability? Um, because then most of your day is by yourself. Um, so I said, Okay, well, what position should I apply for? And she goes, literally just anything but rural. So I applied to be a CCA, took forever to get, you know, into my interview or whatever, but finally got in in the middle of June and been here for over a decade now.
SPEAKER_03Nice. All right. Well, um I'm going to now come to the present, and obviously you're on the podcast, so there is some reason here behind where you're at. And so what caused you to pursue a role as in a leadership uh role in the NALC?
SPEAKER_00Also a weird story. Um, so shortly after starting with the Postal Service, I was asked to be a 204B, like every CCA, right? Um, and I enjoyed the job. So I was like, yeah, sure, let's do this. Um, it was I did it on and off for four years, but I did it consistently for two um without really carrying mail at all. And I know that's gonna irritate a lot of people, but I've never been so miserable in my life. And like, I literally suffered so much in high school that like I had to drop out, I was hospitalized. And I would say being a 204B was worse than that. Um and my last day there, I actually said it in my own leadership academy speech. You know, I had pulled into the office by OIG and they're threatening my job and everything else. And the union stepped in, and by the end of it, they were screaming at my postmaster to not waste their time. And I was like, Yeah, that's what I want to do. Um, so I ended up calling my branch president and I was like, hey, I want to be a steward. And you know, I waited my two years and then I started stewarding. And pretty much since then, like if anyone's like, hey, do you want to do this? I'm like, Yes, I do. They don't even have they're like, Do you have time? Yes, I do. I will find it. If you know, ever since then, like if I can make someone else not have to go through what I went through with the Postal Service in my first four years, then yeah, that's what I want to do with my life. That makes this whole job worthwhile.
SPEAKER_03It it that's a different story than I've heard. Uh, that but a lot of times what makes someone gives them the drive to you know go full force into the NALC, like pursuing either a steward role or whatever, it seems like it's something to do with management that pushes you into that role. And and here, like I said, your story is very unique. I've never heard that one before, but it it is all kind of ends in the same same situation where management, you know, kind of screws somebody over and they're like, you know what, I'm not letting that happen to anybody else.
SPEAKER_00So that that's well, you know, and I think it's benefited me because like I've seen their inner workings, right? And I always tell people, as much as we see as carriers of how much you know they can talk down to us and they just don't seem to care or whatever, that is nothing compared to the behind the scenes of what they're really saying about carriers and how they're really acting. And I I will say too, there are some good management out there that really want to do right or whatever. And it's that old saying, right ship rolls downhill. Um that that's very much so a real thing, but um the ones that are good are just so few and far between. And when you see it, you know, the behind closed doors things they say and they do you'd never ever want to be in that position again. It's disgusting.
SPEAKER_03You are right, you're right. Um, so let's just kind of go through the positions that you have held in whether it's in your branch or just in the NALC in general.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so when I first came on, um started as just uh steward in my station and an alternate for some that are pretty close to me. Um I deliver in a pretty rural area, so the post offices are pretty close together. You know, you just drive through farm town and you're at the next one. Um very quickly became the steward of three stations, then six stations. Now I'm the steward and formal aid at nine stations. Uh I became the financial secretary and then moved into the secretary position, which I'm still doing. I've been doing that since about uh 2022, I think. Um in 2025, I became the state secretary. Um, so dealing more of our legislative and political agenda there. Um I'm an organizer, so I go to these CCA academies and speak to the new CCAs and hopefully get them to sign up. I've been doing that for two or three years now, and not to toot my own horn, but I've only had like in that whole time, maybe five not sign up. So I always tell them I can't say none of the lipstick. And anyone that's met me in person knows I'm pretty known for the red lipstick. Um, I'm a CCA instructor, I'm an ad hoc DSI or driving instructor, I'm an OJI uh for the regional office. They will quite often make me an outside steward, um, do some trainings with the regional office when they need us to. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh what else?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I did some details with national helping in their communications department most recently, and then working with trying to get the women's mentorship program up and running, um, which hasn't died. Um, we're just working on some logistical issues on being able to get all the women together to finish that project with everything being so crazy lately, it's been hard to get everyone together.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh that I is I believe I've kind of remember a little hearing a little bit about the women's mentorship program.
SPEAKER_00I I I mean, if do you want to go into that further, or I mean, is it just there's at this point we just need to logistically be able to get the women together to finish designing the program before we can do anything further. Um and unfortunately, like I said, just with all the moving parts we have going on this past year, it just hasn't happened where we've been able to get all of those women together to finish the program. So not gonna speak on anything I don't know, but I'm just saying it's not dead yet. It'll hopefully come relatively soon.
SPEAKER_03Well, I I know um in Boston they had the women's round table, which was really cool. I I just kind of sat in the back corner and listened. And then uh we had a women's round table put on by Larissa, Nicole, um uh Stephanie was there, and then Andrea Molina was there from Nebraska. And um I just once again kind of sat in the back. I I didn't I wasn't going I well Larissa asked me to kind of speak about my podcast, and so I felt more nervous doing that than any time I've ever done anything else because I was like, I feel like I shouldn't be talking here, but um it was a the everyone was super nice to me, and uh I I just appreciated the time because like I said, this is what I'm doing, you know. But um now I'm going to ask you out of all of those roles, and actually we have a common bond because I'm the state secretary from Missouri. So I I kind of know, well, I don't know what I'm doing. So if you want to go into date detail of what exactly like in your current position, whether you want to talk about your branch secretary or the state secretary or both, what what is what are your duties in these roles?
SPEAKER_00Uh so as a secretary, obviously, meeting minutes are probably our key point. Meeting minutes are that's like the Bible for our union, right? Like once we've nothing can happen until it's in those minutes. So like they have to be documented, they have to be documented properly, they have to be approved by the membership, every motion is in there, and those are kept for life, right? Like in my branch, we were started in 1891. We have the minutes going back that far. Um, so I do kind of like that position because it's like, all right, cool, no matter what, like I'm kind of written into history, right? That's awesome. Um yeah, other than that, we do a lot of communications. It is it's a secretary position, right? So it's a lot of filing, it's a lot of data keeping, um, dealing with correspondence, doing the mailings out, dealing with the mail coming in. Um, other than that, I do like all the ordering and stuff for our branch, um, making sure all the stewards have supplies or whatever. Um, one thing I think is really cool that my branch does is we order brand new uniforms for all the new CCAs. All they have to do is fill out a voucher. Um, as long as they've joined the union, we'll purchase them a shirt and a top or a shirt and a bottom. Um, so that's one of the duties I get to do is fulfilling all those voucher requests for them. And it's just nice to know that, like right away, you know, within generally a month or two, I'm behind on ordering them right now, um, that those CCAs can be in uniform where we know they're safe, they're gonna be recognized in the community. Um, and I'm really proud of my branch for making that a thing so early on with the CCAs. Um for the state secretary, um, do a lot of communication with our lickles, um, making sure that they know who their representatives are in their district, who they can contact, um, doing, I have like a group chat with all of them so that way they can kind of stay um informed on like what's working between each other. Um, our director of education just started a program where once a quarter we meet with all of them and kind of go through like, hey, are you guys needing anything? Do you, you know, anything? And one thing Michigan just had introduced is we have a law introduced to our Michigan House of Representatives that would act kind of like the Protect Our Letter Carriers Act, but in the state of Michigan. So while that bill seems to be kind of stalling because nothing's happening in this Congress, maybe we can at least get something passed here in Michigan. So we're I'm hoping our director of education, our president, get our lickels working with local House representatives to try to push to move that bill forward here in Michigan. And I'm super excited about that. It's us in Delaware both have that bill introduced right now. So kind of hoping Michigan gets it first, just so we can be like, yeah, we're the first state that did it. Um then maybe Delaware can come second. Um but I really, I really like how much I get to interact with just making sure both the branch and the state association are moving forward properly and their files are kept according to DOL standards. So that way, you know, we're on the right side of the law.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. No one wants to deal with the Department of Labor. Uh you don't ever want to get a letter from them. They never just send you a letter to say thanks for doing such a good job. It's never good.
SPEAKER_00So um no, our branch recently just had a random audit. Uh, they came back with like maybe five things. They're like, hey, just you know, you make some little tweaks here, nothing major, no fine, no nothing. Um and literally what it was is like we're a very giving branch, right? We'll get t-shirts for this or whatever. And we didn't quite have proper documentation on exactly who got everything. Um, so yeah, I was like, okay, like while she's talking, like, quick make a spreadsheet. All right, see, it's already fixed, you know. Um, and that's if you're a secretary, you know that's just what it is. You're like, all right, like I'll make a spreadsheet for this, we got a tracking system for this, and it's it's a lot of communications and record keeping, but I love it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, if they if they come in fork. If you can get through uh dealing with the DOL and they haven't found something, uh you're an anomaly because that is that that's their their gig. They're gonna find something on you. So that that sounds like you guys gotta you're doing a fine job if you only got five minor dings, you know. That's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, yeah, it was for as long as they had all of our records, we're like, what are we going to jail? What is happening? Because I think they had our stuff for like what it had to be like six months, and we're like, What is going on? And she's like, Oh, sorry, no, I just had some other things to do. And we're like, Oh my god, you could have told us. Like, we were all over here, like, what did we do?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, it turned out to be absolutely fine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, definitely. Well, that's that's awesome. I mean, obviously, you're doing a great job there to keep it, keep yourself out of jail. Good job, but I'm glad you're doing it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we have a very good branch and love my secretary. I tell her all the time, I'm like, you're never allowed to leave us because, dear Lord, do not make me do the books because yeah, she's keeping us above the law and keeping those books, you know, to the penny. And I don't know how she does it.
SPEAKER_03That's amazing. That's that's great. Um kind of switching gears a little bit. Uh I know I talked to I've talked to a lot of different ladies, and um a lot of them have dealt with some sorts of discrimination, not necessarily even from the NALC side of it. A lot of times they've kind of got some disrespect and and discrimination kind of uh treatment by the Postal Service management or whatever. Have you, whether it be NALC, post office, have you dealt with any of that as you've uh kind of climbed the ranks?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think that's gonna happen no matter what. Uh there's been a lot of harassment discrimination coming into the post office, and that started literally day one. Um my postmaster was not my hiring manager. That was her husband at another station. And so when I went with him for an interview, because in 2014 we were still doing legitimate interviews before we got hired on. I came in like um a dress suit, right? So I'm in like a knee-length skirt and a jacket. And he's like, Yeah, can you demonstrate how to pick up this box? And I'm like, Well, I can like explain it, but like I'm not gonna do it. I'm in a skirt. Um, talked to quite a few other people that were hired right around the same time as me, most of them men, and he only did that with the women. Um actually testified in federal court here in Michigan against a postmaster for sexual harassment. I had reported it to my postmaster, I'd reported it to the MPO and the district manager. And my final straw with that whole thing is like I had turned in statement after statement after statement, and nothing happened. And one day I just refused to go work with this postmaster again. And the MPO got on the phone. And I will say it is not the MPO I have now, um, but it was another female, and she just looked at me and she goes, I don't know what the fuck you're afraid of. Get in there and do your job. And I said, That's fine. I'm not doing this anymore. And I just walked out. Um turn around like a year and a half later, and I walk into work and there's an OIG agent there. And this was after I had already quit 204 being with OIG agents harassing me. And now I'm getting pulled into the office with OIG agents again. I'm like, oh, what could I have done now? Right. Excuse me. And uh they tell me that they had found that postmaster hiding political mail, which is, you know, just like way to do it, man. Yeah, that's one of the worst things you can do. And in doing that, they found that the MPO was kind of complicit in this or whatever. And when they searched her office, they found a stack of sexual harassment complaints against this postmaster from over 43 women that she had just been hiding.
SPEAKER_01And uh sorry, excuse me.
SPEAKER_00And uh yeah, so I sat there filling out my statement with the OIG, which was like 10 pages long at this point. And the whole time my female postmaster just kept coming in the office. She's like, is she done yet? She has a route to carry. And finally they're like, if you come in here again, we're not gonna let her come out. But she will come out and carry her route when she is good and done here, and we will let you know when that is. And again, I was like, Yes, power, that's right. You tell them, you know. Um and eventually get a call, you know. I didn't hear anything about that for like another year, year and a half again, and then finally get a call from my supervisor on the route. And he's like, hey, pull over, I need you to call this number. It's a postal lawyer. And again, I'm like, what in the world did I do now? You know? And no, it turns out that they had finally fired him. He was appealing it and they were taking it to court and they were looking for women to testify. And out of those 43, only six could six agreed to testify.
SPEAKER_03It's gotta be scary. I mean, with the retaliation and everything, I can understand why, you know, unfortunately, some a lot of ladies are like, no, I don't, I I just don't want to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was it was scary, you know. And the thing I thought most interesting is this court case, you know, they go through all the different things that led up to him getting fired. So the sexual harassment was just a piece of it. So the day that we were going to testify was the only day his wife bothered to show up. And I'm not sure if that's because she thought we were all lying and she thought that would intimidate us, or she was just gathering records for her own divorce proceedings. I don't know. But I just thought that was interesting. That that's the only day she bothered to show up and care about was the day that we were testifying against her husband.
SPEAKER_03Well, hopefully it was for the second reason because uh I hope so.
SPEAKER_00I hope she left him because just what a piece of crap. Yeah um I really haven't faced a lot of discrimination within the NALC, which is nice. Every once in a while, you know, at a convention or whatever, you'll meet one person who probably just shouldn't be a delegate anymore. Um, met one guy like that while in Chicago. He wasn't from the Chicago area, I can't remember where he's from, but literally sitting there speaking to me at the NALC convention told me how he didn't believe women belonged in the workforce. And I just want to be like, dude, why do you think I'm here? Like, I'm out here doing the same job you're doing. Um I have found the NALC to be a really embracing environment for me for the most part. Um you know, obviously I've I've talked about it before and other things. Uh I see a lot of women on women hate in the NALC. Um and we have the more like if we want to see more women step up in these roles, eventually women are gonna be competing against each other. And that can't be looked at as like, well, I hate you, so I'm gonna run against you, and it's a calf fight and it's just being petty or whatever. No, if you want to run for a position because you truly think that you can do it better, or you have a different way of doing it that's gonna be better, or it's better for the Membership, then we should support each other in that, whether we're male and female, two females, two males, whatever. Um, because in the end, it's what's best for the membership. Um when I ran for Secretary of the State, I did run against another female, a female I considered a friend. And I tried to speak with her ahead of time, and I thought we were on a good spot, and then it turns out we weren't. And it was really hard that that ended up being kind of what ruined our friendship in the end. But, you know, I didn't I wouldn't have done it if multiple people hadn't come up to me and be like, hey, we want to see you in this position, right? It wasn't like just me deciding, like, yeah, I want to screw her over, so I'm gonna run against her. It's because multiple people came and was like, hey, we'd like you to see you in this position. Um so I think that's a big part of it too, is making sure we're speaking to that person, right? We're not just blindsiding them when we're doing those things. But for the most part, other than that kind of like woman-on-woman hate that needs to go away, um every mentor until my mentor for Leadership Academy has been a male. Um the men in the NELC have been great supporters of me, you know, help walking me through stuff and getting me where I need to be, which of course then starts the rumors of like she's sleeping with people to get positions or whatever, which no thank you. Um, but there's a lot of men out there that are willing to help and want to see these women succeed and give them the tools they need to be able to. Um, and then I finally got my mentor, Anna Mudd, which is our RGA for our region. And yeah, I'm sure you've met Anna and she is absolutely fantastic. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I've been trying to get her on here too. Uh, we've just had some issues with our scheduling and you know, she's super busy. Well, last uh week two of leadership, she wasn't even able to be in there because she was doing the uh, I believe it was informal A training or something that was going on. So she would pop her head in and just say hi to everybody and then run back to her other class. And so yeah, I'd I'd never met Anna until leadership, and um she's she's another phenomenal lady that like I said, I'm working on scheduling to get her on here as well. So that that's awesome. And like you said, she's amazing. I I I know that there are people that are doing things for the wrong reason, but I know that at least in my circle, the the guys that are mentoring um, you know ladies, they're in it because they're wanting they see something in that person and they're like, hey, this is this is a next leader. This is the person's gonna take my spot. And so I want them to be doing well. So I'm so glad to hear that you haven't dealt with that. I'm I'm sorry about the other stuff with the post office. I wish I could say I was surprised, but you know, it is what it is. I've been around a while as well, and you you see things and it's just frustrating.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and that's the thing, you know, and I think true truly within the NALC, as much as there's talk about like women can't move up or there's these perceptions and whatever, I think we're doing it to ourselves, right? Because like it's the rumor mill that's like keeping these rumors and stuff going. So like maybe if we just quit making assumptions and quit talking about that and just be like, all right, we'll let their work show their worth, right? Because that should be what's proving their worth is what work are you putting in? What are you doing for your members? Um don't let it be about their age or their sex or their beauty or whatever. If they're putting in the work, then they're putting in the work. Um, so I think that's something we really need to work on in the NALC is just killing that rumor mill because nothing spreads faster in the postal service than gossip. It's about 13 times faster than the mail.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, and and I'm I'm hoping that maybe with uh work towards the women's mentorship program. And then also, like I said, just the this was it, this was the first time they had had a women's round table at our wrap session. I'm uh going to kind of uh we're we're going out our our state convention's coming up in um the end of September, and I'm going to try to see if we can talk with possibly Larissa uh to possibly do something there as well. Um our our state treasurer that just took over is actually out of my branch as well, and um she I think would enjoy participating as well in that. And I I just think it's a great program because I mean at the end of the day, this has kind of been a male-dominated field for a long time and and we're seeing more ladies come in. And you guys deserve to be part of the team, you know, and and you have you do the same thing and a lot of times do it a lot better than us. So, you know, um we we need to embrace you guys and say, hey, we're all in this together, we're all in here trying to, you know, get this mail delivered and and you know, do it and and make sure that all of our members are taken care of as well. And so yeah, I think it's I I'm hoping that it's on the right path and the right track to improve for everybody. Um as you're sitting there, definitely. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it is, you know, uh within the NALC, it's like 42% of our members are women. Um, we definitely don't see, I don't think 42% of women um necessarily in leadership roles, at least not at the highest levels, right? That are like the most visible. But like my branch alone, I mean, you know her, Kathy Hunter, that's my president, my treasurer, she female, me, the secretary, female, our um two of our three trustees are female, our sergeant at arms is female. Um, so we're a very female run branch, you know, and I'm seeing that more often now. So I think those women are starting to step up in the roles, and all it takes is someone to be like, yeah, you've got an idea, let's hear it. And most of the time they're willing to step up or at least volunteer for a committee or something, you know. So it's getting there, I think, slowly but surely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, and that's what it's got to start someplace, and it sounds like it is heading in the right direction. Um as I'm talking to you sitting in your hotel room, um, this next question kind of leads into that. Um, with all of your positions that you do, uh the list was pretty long a while ago. Obviously, you spend quite a bit of time away from home. Is that has your time that you've invested in, you know, all of your union duties, has it caused any issues with family or friends as far as being away and not being able to participate in things or anything along those lines?
SPEAKER_00It definitely uh causes some disruptions. Um, you know, I'm I'm a strong-willed woman. I probably become more strong-willed with the union backing me. It's it's made me a lot more confident. It's helped me gain my voice, you know, um, which probably makes me a little more unruly at home. Um it's not great for relationships. Uh, it's really not. Um it's hard for someone to understand like why you're gone all the time. Um, so lots of accusations of cheating. And it's like you can call me anytime. Like, you know, I'm not doing anything. I'm here to do a job, and that's what I'm doing. Um, but this isn't normal for everyone, right? Where you're constantly having to be gone for a week or two weeks or whatever. Um so they're not used to that, and especially with it being a more male-dominated field, like who am I working with? I'm working with men most of the time, and I think that's hard for a lot of people who don't understand what we do to understand. Um, so yeah, with that being said, not married or anything. I don't have kids either. Um, so I just have like a cat waiting for me at home, and I have two roommates, so they kind of hold down the floor and make sure he's not too lonely while I'm gone. Um, which is nice because I don't think I could do this if there wasn't someone watching the home as well. Um, and they're fantastic. So they're they're actually my ex's kids, um, and they rent rooms for me and they're fantastic to have around. And yeah, they they're great cheerleaders of what I do. I told them I was gonna be on this podcast today, and they're like, that really, that's so cool. I'm so happy for you, you know. And I was like, I don't, I don't know. It's weird for me. But yeah, it definitely, you know, it's hard for me to like schedule things with family um because I'm constantly traveling, or you know, I've got this grievance work and I got to get this done on a Sunday or whatever. Um, but my family does try to schedule things on Sundays for me because they know that's like my one day where I'm actually free. Um my niece and nephew are like my babies. I just I love them so much. Um, so I'm constantly just trying to get to see them and my best friends, and you know, occasionally when I can, my family too. But yeah, that niece and nephew, that's that's what I'm trying to see all the time. Um, kind of trying to possibly take in a foster. My little cousin is in the foster care system. So trying to get them um placed with me right now as well, and have talked with them that if if they're placed with me, we're gonna be doing like a virtual schooling program so they can travel with me so that they don't feel alone again. So um, yeah, it's it's hard navigating, doing all of this and having a life outside of it, but it's doable. Um, I don't think it'd be doable if I didn't love this as much as I do. When I'm talking to new CCAs at the union mod, trying to get them to sign up. I kind of explain it to them like, I'm having this grand love affair with the union, right? Like the union's my mistress, and like no matter what happens, I can't be torn away from that mistress, the union. So I kind of just fix everything around it to make it work. Um then yeah, I hope more people have a great love affair with the union because it really is just like I don't know, I just I truly love what I do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, uh it is it's a huge commitment. And um, you know, even even just being a just being, I say just, but being a steward, it's so much time, so much time. And you know, you can do some of it at work, but it I don't know one steward that doesn't take it home with them. Even if they're you know, even if they're not really supposed to, you do it on the clock or whatever. No, you you and you're even if you aren't physically doing it, it's in your head and it's running through your head. And when you're doing anything else, you're thinking, oh, what do I need to do this? You know, so it's like you can't escape it. It's it's there. And then, you know, you jump into the other roles. Um, that it just it but it is fun, and you you know, you do do it because you love the union, you love your brothers and sisters, your union siblings, and that's what you do. And so I I thank you for everybody out there that you've already been helping. I I mean, thank you for them, you know. I'm sure they appreciate you. Well, now uh you kind of mentioned a few things, and I have a feeling they have a little bit to do with this next one. What do you like to do when you're not doing union stuff, when you're off and you're just enjoying life? What do you do you have hobbies? What what do you like to do?
SPEAKER_00Uh what do I do when I'm not working? Um, I really like reading. Um, I think that's part of the reason why I liked being a steward is because there's a lot to read. Um, so I'd like to read a lot of books. I also listen to books. Um, other than that, I like gardening. Um, we are almost to the season where I can garden again in Michigan. Um, I have three adorable little chickens at home and my cat. Um, did have to downsize the animals a little bit more recently with how much I'm gone. Um, but I'm super big into foraging. Um, so more or less I'm looking for plants that most people consider a weed out in the wild and mushrooms that are edible or have a medicinal purpose, um, either in like Native American culture or um some that are even scientifically proven, but the FDA won't approve them, um, such as St. John's Wart. It's multiple studies have been done that show this is better for anxiety than pharmaceuticals with less side effects. Um, so obviously I told you about my struggles with anxiety. So that's kind of where this came into play is like I don't want to be on medications for my whole life. And people say these plants are out there. Um, so I own six acres and that butts up to 80,000 acres of protected forest where we are allowed to forage on it for certain items. So I like to just go out there, wander through the woods, and pick my plants.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'll just say the foraging through the woods. Um I have this major fear of snakes. And so I don't know what the snake situation is in Michigan, but around here, I don't even like going out in my yard in the spring because I'm afraid of snakes. I've bit off of routes because of snakes. That's how bad it is with me on snakes. So I don't I don't know if you maybe you don't have that same kind of fear of snakes, but oof, I can't do them. I can't do them.
SPEAKER_00I'm more worried that like a random skunk is gonna pop out in my forest. Um, we don't have, we only have like one poisonous snake in all of Michigan. Most of our snakes are fairly small. I think the one that's scariest around my area is a hog-nosed snake. And I don't know if you know what that looks like. Um, but they have this way of like flattening their body to like puff up like a cobra. Um, but they don't actually have like little cobra like wings. They just like flatten themselves and they stand up like the cobra. Um, but the biggest one I've ever seen is like a foot and a half long, and you're just like, yeah, go away. And like you take a step back and it just flies away, and you know, it's just super scared. Um, so yeah, not super worried about snakes. I also hunt and I fish. Uh, I got a little bass boat. Um, so when it's warmer out, I love getting out and doing those, and then yeah, hunting in the fall and canning and making my own pies and that sort of thing. Kind of the homesteading. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03No, yeah. Now the pie thing.
SPEAKER_00Anything where it can be outside.
SPEAKER_03The pie thing works for me. I I I will eat some pies. I I don't do snakes, but I definitely do pies. So yeah, that I'm I'm with you on that one. Um, yeah. Well, since uh, you know, you've been around for a while, you've obviously seen a lot of things, you've done a lot of things. What would be a piece of advice you would give someone just kind of starting their journey in NALC leadership?
SPEAKER_00If you're just getting started, the best thing I can tell you is to keep going. You're gonna experience so many obstacles, so many things where you're like, do I know what I'm doing?
SPEAKER_01Goodness, this cold is just trying to kill me.
SPEAKER_00You know, you're gonna feel like you don't know if you're you know what you're doing. You're gonna feel like people aren't fighting you, you know, pe other people are fighting you and you're not getting recognition, but just keep going. In the end, it does pay off.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's solid advice. Um, well, that's pretty much all I have. So I'm just going to ask you now if there's anything that I missed, anything you would like to add, anything at all that you this it's the floor is yours.
SPEAKER_00Goodness. Uh no, I don't really have anything to add, Craig. Just thank you for letting me come on and speak. And I apologize for this cold in my voice.
SPEAKER_03No, it's not a problem. I I appreciate you uh sticking with me, even though you're obviously not feeling well. You're on the road, you're just having a time here, and and there's no uh no rest for you either. You're gonna be back at it tomorrow, so um I'm not gonna keep you on here any longer. I appreciate you joining in with me here. And I literally, just to a little background on this, I literally went on Facebook and just cold em or messaged you on Facebook Messenger out of nowhere and was just like, hey, would you mind jumping on my podcast? And and you were just game from the beginning, and so I appreciate you doing it. Uh I know that you're super busy and you took some time here, and I I can't thank you enough. So it's been great talking to you. Uh, I can't wait. Um I'm assuming you'll be in LA in August, and we'll definitely see each other there. And um I like I said, I can't thank you enough. I hope you get to feeling better, and um thank you. All I can say is have a good evening, hope you get some rest, and thank you for listening to my podcast. Have a good night, be safe, and be kind of a good idea.