The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
This podcast’s purpose is to give a history of women who have stepped into leadership roles within the National Association of Letter Carriers, and discuss the leaders of now and into the future.
The History of Female Leadership in the NALC
Leslie Greene
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This episode features Leslie Greene, Vice President of Branch 22, New Castle, Pennsylvania.
Welcome to the History of Female Leadership in the NALC podcast. I'm Craig Schaefer. I'm a city carrier in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. Today I'm uh super excited to have one of my sisters from Leadership Academy. Uh go ahead and introduce yourself.
SPEAKER_01Hello, Craig. Thank you for having me. My name is Leslie Green. I'm from Branch 22 in Newcastle, PA, which is the city I grew up in. Um I've been a member for the NALC and a city carrier for going on 22 years.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, uh going back 22 years, what brought you to the Postal Service in the first place?
SPEAKER_01Uh before joining the Postal Service, I had worked several customer service jobs. Um, right before I came to USPS, I was a claims representative for Liberty, Liberty Mutual Insurance. I really enjoyed my job there. Um, you would take claims and talk to people when they were usually going through or having a bad day. Um but the company was going through a lot of layoffs. You would hear they would constantly give promotions and then they would turn around and lay people off. Um, so then when I got the opportunity, the call to work for the post office, um, I decided to take it because I felt it offered more stability and long-term security. Looking back on it, it turned out to be the right decision. Um, after COVID, Liberty Mutual Call Center in Newcastle did end up closing and hundreds of people lost their jobs. A lot of friends of mine. So I am thankful that I chose the Postal Service because it has given me a rewarding career and opportunities that I had never imagined that I would have.
SPEAKER_00All right. Yeah, that's uh that's the one of my favorite questions because I always learn stuff about people that I had no idea. That's that's one of my favorites. Um, so you know, obviously what brought you to this point is at some point you decided to pursue a leadership role in the NALC. Uh, was there a reason something happened, or did you just get pulled into it?
SPEAKER_01Um, a little, I guess it was a little of both. Honestly, it started because I saw coworkers who needed someone to stand up for them. Um historically in our office, we've had some very toxic management. Um we've had a lot of leaders leave. And at the time, there was no union steward or no union representation. Um, so I realized if no one was willing to learn the contract and fight for our carriers, employees could easily lose their rights. And I really wanted to make a difference. Um as I became more involved, I discovered how much I enjoyed helping people solve problems, educating carriers about their rights. Um, seeing someone come to you feeling defeated, and then being able to help them is incredibly rewarding. Um, and that desire to help others is what continues to motivate me today. Um, that is very important to me. So, and yeah, and that's why I'm here.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Um so you know, what positions have you held in your branch or state or whatever in the NALC in general?
SPEAKER_01Well, I've held many hats and and still do. Um I am currently the vice president of branch 22. I also serve as my shop steward and the formal A representative for my office. I was a carrier academy instructor until our academy closed once our office became an SDC, a sorting and distribution center. Um I really enjoyed teaching new carriers, and I and I really I still miss it. I miss it a lot. Um I'm asked to go down to Pittsburgh and teach at other academies, but scheduling with all the other um work I do hasn't really worked out recently. Um I also participated in the national roundtable discussion, um, helping to update the carrier academy um training guides. So instructors were selected from each region across the United States and selected, we were selected to provide input and kind of go through each page of those handbooks or the training guides and update them with current information because they are extremely outdated. Um, so it was an exciting um opportunity to be a part of and to improve training for our future carriers. Um, I was also a facilitator for the new employee experience retention and mentoring program, also known as NERP. Um, along with my USPS counterpart, I've helped train both management and union representatives about the program. Um, so that was a great experience too. Um finally, what which I am most honored and really passionate about is I am a member of the emergency response team, like you, Craig. That's where we first met. Um that of all the positions I've held, the ERT is just something special. And again, I'm so honored to be a part of it. Helping carriers and their families during some of the most difficult moments of their lives is truly meaningful. And it's something I will always be extremely proud to be a part of.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um I forgot about that. That when I introduced you, I was like, wait a second, we knew each other because when we when I walked in that room and I looked around, I was like, a friendly face, you know, you and uh Brooke. So it was it was kind of cool to have that already going in there because it was a little overwhelming walking in there the first night, but uh it was nice seeing friendly faces. Um I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I was just um I I I sorry I missed that when I first introduced you. Um so you know, I I haven't had anybody yet, I believe, that was, you know, like us going out to off. Well, no, I had Amy Cole on, but um if you don't mind, I think ERT is so important. If you I and I know you're the vice president, and well you can go over that as well, what your duties are there. But if you don't mind, I'd I wouldn't I would like to hear, if you don't mind, kind of going over what your ERT, what you do in the ERT.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so as an ERT member, um, we can receive a call at any time asking us to deploy to an office that's experienced a tragedy or crisis. Um, unfortunately, um most of the deployments I've been on have been true tragedies, where it usually involves a passing away of one of our brothers or sisters. Um at first, we receive the information about the situation, and we coordinate with our ERT partner because we um always have at least two members going in, um, if not more, depending on what the crisis is. Um we coordinate with our ERT partner, we make our travel arrangements, we reach out to the local branches and set up, you know, where we're gonna meet, um, make sure there's, you know, union representatives from that area that meet us there and introduce us to management. Umsu what we do is introduce ourselves during the stand-up talk with the branch leaders and let them know why we are there. And we are not there as union stewards or fouling grievances. Um, it has nothing to do with that. We're there literally as letter carriers helping other letter carriers um get through a very traumatic situation. Um so once we do that, um, we usually walk around and talk to the carriers one-on-one and kind of get a feel of you know how they're coping with this. Um, you know, if we feel that if we see that they're really struggling and becoming very emotional on the workroom floor, we might pull them into a private room and kind of do a one-on-one and let them kind of vent and see what they're going through, and then obviously offer any resources that are available to them and you know, kind of gauge and see if they really do need some more professional help. Um it's something that it's a great program that Brian Renfro, President Renfro, started. And I think as you know, a letter carrier, I think this is a tremendous program to help other letter carriers in situations like that. Um, and I think one of the reasons it's so great is because as letter carriers, you know, you know what other letter carriers are going through. You know what a toxic workroom floor is like. Um unfortunately, the mail has to get delivered every day. Um, even when a tragedy like that happens, you know, the mail must go out, it must get delivered. Um, so in talking with those carriers, you know, we kind of have a connection. You know, we we understand what they're going through and and we're strictly there to help. Um so we we do that, we want to make sure that they're okay, and we want to make sure that the NALC and us as letter carriers are there to support them through this time. And sometimes people just need someone to listen, you know, and that's the biggest part of the ERT. We are there to listen. Um, it's not about us, it's about them and what they're going through. And I think that's why it's so important um part of what we do. So it is something and something that is very important to me, and I feel it's very special. Um again, because you know, you you leave a deployment, and even if I helped one person or made a difference in, you know, one carrier's, you know, day and helping them get through this horrible, you know, situation they're dealing with. The gratitude I feel when I leave there is just it's unimaginable. It just, you know, as hard as it can be leaving some of these that will stick with you probably the rest of your life, it's still I have such gratitude and feeling that I helped someone. Um, so that's basically what we do as an ERT member.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, we're not trying to replace EAP or anything, but no, I think the difference is like like you said, um EAP comes in, the they are professionals, that's what they do. And so, you know, the carriers kind of talk to them, but at the end of the day, as a carrier, you know, I can explain to them what's going on, but they uh if you unless you are a carrier, you don't know what you go through. I mean, that and then that's with any job. I mean, I wouldn't understand what they go through on a daily basis, probably. But, you know, when we go in there, you know, we we obviously can't feel what they're feeling in that moment, but we know what it feels like to be a carrier. And then, you know, that's kind of the connection we seem to have with uh with our brothers and sisters and you know, our all of our union siblings out there when we go in an office, and you're right, it it is super rewarding. And you know, uh, I was honored. I I don't know how I got picked to be on the team with all the awesome people that are on that team. It's it's uh it's uh a really amazing program. And I I Brian, Mac, uh Manny, of course, and then you know, Ed and Michelle coordinating everything. It's it's uh it's a crazy well-oiled machine. I don't know how they pull it off, but they do. And uh it is awesome. Uh you also are your vice president of your branch. Um I too am the vice president of my branch. If you can briefly, if you don't, if you got like a couple minutes of just telling me what you do as vice president, because I don't know what I'm doing. So if you don't mind, kind of tell me what I'm supposed to be doing as vice president.
SPEAKER_01Well, as vice president, you know, or I'm on the executive board. Um, I believe I am the only woman um on the executive board right now. Um, so that's pretty much going to the executive board meetings, going through the finances. Um obviously, if you know, if the branch president or vice president or executive vice president can't take a call, you know, we all get calls at all times, day, all times of the day. Um, so really, I mean, going to meetings and and doing the finances, planning, you know, the trainings coming up and the convention is pretty much the food drive. I'm very involved in that. Um, it's pretty much, you know, my role is the vice president in my branch. Um, I'm really more what takes most of my time um would be the shop steward. Um I am the only shop steward in my office of about close to 40 routes. Um I do the informal and um formal step of the grievance process. And especially as of recently, um, our grievances are pretty backed up and there are a lot. So that is really um where a lot of my time is spent. And obviously taking, you know, calls from the carriers, you know, I've already got probably five calls this morning and it I'm on annual leave that I'll have to respond to when we're done with this podcast. But um that's really where a lot of my time and a lot of my um work is put into is being the shop steward and processing the grievances.
SPEAKER_00All right. Yeah. Well, okay. I I took notes, so I now know what I'm supposed to be doing when I go back to work as well. I'm on annual this week as well. Um you know, you you mentioned that you've been around for around 20 years. Um you you came in when I mean, not that the numbers are even at this point, but at 20 years ago, there were even a lot less ladies out there walking routes than there are now. Um and with that in a male uh dominated career, I'm sure that there's chances that you, like many of the other ladies, have had experiences with either harassment or discrimination, whether it be from management, from unfortunately sometimes it is our NALC siblings. Um have you had any experiences with anything like that? And how did you deal with it? And do you feel like if there were some situations where they resolved?
SPEAKER_01I would love to say no. Um, but yes, there have been many times where I feel I've been I've experienced discrimination because I am a woman. Um it's not always something obvious, but there have definitely been moments where I felt I had to work harder to prove myself, um, especially when I was first stepping into leadership roles. Um, what example that always stands out is, you know, during a labor management meeting, which is usually, you know, myself and you know, members of management and labor and or other union members, and they're all men. And they'll ask you, okay, who's taking notes today? And almost everyone in the room, both management and the union, um, will look at me and automatically think that, you know, just because I'm a woman, I'm there to take notes. In actuality, I'm there because I'm the one usually doing all the speaking during the slaver management meeting. Um, it's my office. I'm gonna be all, you know, doing all most of the talking. And I have to sit here and take the notes as well. Um, so things like that. Uh I think it's it's an assumption that's based on gender and not our role or responsibilities. Um, I've also experienced situations where I will be meeting with a postmaster, answer a contractual question, or explain something during a grievance meeting, you know, and I'll sit there and cite the national agreement or a handbook or manual, word for word. Um, but my answer is questioned or challenged. Um, but then when my fellow executive board members, whether it be the branch president, vice president, um, who happens to be the man who will give the same exact answer as I just gave, and no one questions it. Like my answer doesn't hold value because I'm a woman or I don't know what I'm doing. Um, so those kinds of moments can be frustrating. Um and I I I take it, you know, with a grain of salt. Sometimes I might have a little snarky comment back to them. Um but I don't let that discourage me. Um, I use that as motivation. Um, I made it a point to keep learning the contract, to be prepared, and let my knowledge and my work speak for itself. Over time, I have earned respect of the people around me. And while those situations still happen occasionally, they're far less common today. I also hope that by continuing to serve in leadership, I can make it easier for the next generation of women to step into these roles with more confidence because it is hard. Um, you go into these meetings and it's a bunch of men. Um and management is constantly changing. So, like you, you get you get very comfortable with this management. You have your routine and how you work things out during the grievance process. And then next thing you know, you're dealing with a whole new team of management members, and they are, you know, we're starting from the beginning, trying to build that relationship. So, you know, it could be hard, but um I make it through. And and like I said, you you gotta use that as your ammo to work harder and and learn more and keep going.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And well, and as ridiculous as it is that, like you said, um if you and I were to walk into a room, 99% of the time, they're gonna look at me as the one that it knows what I'm talking about, and I'm sitting there thinking she knows more in her pinky than I know in my whole body. And just because of the genders. Yes. And it's it's it's wild to me. But I also notice uh through pretty much everyone that says they deal with this stuff, which is the vast majority of the ladies, um, they that's the key is you instead of letting it upset you or you know make you quit, it's it's like every one of you always are like, oh, I use it as motivation that I'm going to take them take it to the next level, and I'm just gonna use it to smoke them. And uh you know, that is uh that is the as bad as it is that it it is the situation, it's amazing how you guys are able to use that as opposed to just letting it, you know, okay, I give up. And and I think that right there shows how how great leaders we have here. You know, the ladies that I've had on the podcast, every one of them are just an amazing leader. So yeah, that's awesome. I'm I'm I I've heard that trend through everybody. Um another kind of rough question a lot of times is you know, you you do a lot of traveling, you do a lot of work for the NALC, you you've hold so many different positions that you that take you away from family and friends. Um has the time that you've uh put into doing the work in the NALC caused you any issues with any of your family, any of your friends because of the time?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um union work doesn't really end when you end tour or when you go home. Like I said, I'm my phone's blown up, and you know, I'm supposed this is a week of vacation for me. Um there are evenings, weekends, phone calls, meetings, grievance deadlines, appeals, you know, and travel. Um it can definitely affect your personal life. Um right now I'm in a great position. My daughter, you know, is 26. She's my only child, and you know, she's she's very busy too. She's a hard worker, she's a nurse. Um, so we have our own lives and You know, so it gives me more freedom of time. Um, but my family and friends understand why I do this work and they do support me. There have certainly been times where I've missed family events or had to rearrange plans because someone needed help or, you know, I had to be deployed to, you know, um a different station or training I'm completing. Um, it definitely requires balance, and I'm still trying to learn that balance. But helping people really makes those sacrifices worthwhile. Um, and that's what I'm in it for. Uh I'm in it to help people. It's important to me. Um, so it, it, it's definitely, you know, and even I think even just not even in leadership, being a letter carrier, like people don't understand, you know, hey, what time are you getting done with work today? Well, I can't really tell you that. It could be four o'clock, five o'clock, six o'clock, it could be seven o'clock. What do you mean you don't know? I don't know. Um, I'm done when the mail gets delivered and things happened and we get sent back out. And I think a lot of us struggle with that. Um, because again, we we touched based on that a little earlier. You know, if you're not a letter carrier, if you don't work for the post office, it's hard to explain that aspect of that job and and that balance of, you know, your home life and work life. Um, so I think a lot of us struggle with that, not even just in leadership. I think, you know, even the letter carriers that, you know, go in every day have to, you know, have that balance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Uh the big one that a lot of people struggle with, I struggle with when I first started was everybody else, you know, Friday afternoon, you go into offices, deliver mail, and they're like, have a great weekend. And I'm like, well, my weekend's not quite here yet. Um my weekend starts tomorrow evening whenever they let me out of this place. So yeah, it it and I think a lot of the newer carriers uh that I've seen coming up recently, they really struggle with that, you know, never having any guarantees and everything. And, you know, and you have to have that kind of uncomfortable conversation to just tell them, you know, it this isn't meant for everybody, and it's not a knock. Frankly, I question most people that uh stick with the Postal Service for any length of time. Like, I don't, you're a special person, and I'm right there in the group, you know, because you and you put up with more than you really should, and you're not getting paid what you should to put up with the stuff that you're putting up with, and yet you still come in every day and you uh take care of your customers. And I think that's the driving force between most people. It's not because uh we love going to put up with management into morning in the morning. We're looking forward to getting out there and you know talking to our customers and seeing how they're doing every day and taking care of them. So yeah, it is it's a tough one. Um, so you know, I I guess this is kind of a crazy question, seeing that you just mentioned you're on annual leave this week and yet you have five calls waiting to be called back on your vacation. But if you actually, you know, take a day during your vacation and you're just like, you know what, I'm gonna put my phone down, I'm gonna turn the laptop off, I'm not gonna do a podcast, I'm not gonna do anything. Um, what do you like to do to unwind and relax? Do you have hobbies?
SPEAKER_01Um, I well, I really enjoy traveling. So I like to travel as much as I can, which is getting harder and harder because I'm traveling. I have been traveling a lot for um the NALC. Um I love spending time with my family. Uh my daughter lives in Pittsburgh, so I like going down there and you know, spending time down there. My nieces and nephews are very involved in sports. So there's always a game that I can go to. Um, and I have a little dog, um, my Boston Terrier Gatsby. Um, so and and I love the summer. I love spending time outside doing yard work or going to the pool, um, hanging out with the family, um, pretty much. And I also recently in the past year started reformer Pilates and have become obsessed. Um but it's very hard for me to get there with my schedule. So it's usually just Sundays, but you know, if I can fit a couple more in during the week, I I do that. I love that as well. But yeah, um, so in two weeks I leave and I go to vacation in Florida with my family. So yes, on that vacation, my laptop will be closed, my phone will be off. Um, I already bought some books to read. I don't even have time to read anymore. Um, and that's how I'm gonna unwind.
SPEAKER_00Nice.
SPEAKER_01It's well overdue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um well, you know, once again, I'm not trying to point out how long you've been at the postal service or anything, but you have been around a minute. And uh you've seen a lot of stuff, you've done a lot of things. Um if there's someone listening to this and thinking, you know what, maybe I want to kind of start doing something as well, I want to get involved. What would be a piece of advice that you would give that person?
SPEAKER_01I would say believe in yourself. Um, even before you feel completely ready, because I that is something to this day that I still struggle with. I still will doubt myself and second guess myself. Um, things that I know, you know, 100% am very knowledgeable on, and I will still doubt myself in saying the right thing or leading someone in the right direction. Um, none of us start out knowing everything. And I I definitely don't know everything. Um I know, you know, there's certain things as stewards we deal with a lot in the contract every day, but there's still sometimes I still have to, you know, look at that stuff, you know, and and look at the language. Um, so to this day I'm still learning. Ask questions, you know, find mentors, attend training, and never stop learning. Um, and obviously, you know, we're creatures of habit as letter carriers, and we have a hard time adapting to change, but unfortunately, things do change, and we have to learn to adapt to that change as well. Um, don't ever be afraid to speak up. Your perspective always matters, and your d voice deserves to be heard. Um, keep learning the contract, be prepared, and always remember why you chose to become involved, and that is to help people. And most importantly, always stay true to yourself. You don't have to lead like anyone else. Authentic leadership is what people remember. And if you generally genuinely care about others, they'll see that and they'll remember that. And those are the qualities that will take you farther than you ever imagined.
SPEAKER_00I don't even know what to say to that. That's awesome. That is perfect. Um, thank you. Um I'm I'm out of questions, so I'm just gonna toss it back to you. If there's anything I missed, anything else you want to add, the floor is yours.
SPEAKER_01I just want to say thank you so much, Craig, for um having me. Um something I do want to add in doing all the training um that I've done and all the projects that I got to be a part of, the one of the greatest things that stands out of it all is meeting the people I've met across the country along the way, um, like you. Um and so many others that I have, you know, developed some very great friendships with that, you know, I'll just textile the blue and they're, you know, all the way in Seattle. Um, so I think that's great and and and forging those friendships. Um and I also want to add um that I'm very sorry to hear about the passing of your mom, Terry. Um you are in my thoughts and in my prayers. Um, I know we talked a little bit before the podcast, but I also wanted to point out, too, that reading her obituary, your mom sounded like she was a leader herself. And um it makes a lot of sense of who you know who you are and and why you do this, and you're such a great person. And um, I do want to say I'm I'm very sorry and um hang in there and we're all out here thinking of you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. I appreciate that. You didn't have to say anything, but I I do appreciate it. It um I have tried my best to um, you know, my my father was kind of not really in the picture too much, so my mom kind of did everything. And um of course we always had our differences and and opinions on things, but at the end of the day, I I did try to, you know, always make her proud. That that was the biggest thing. And so um doing all of this stuff, I think she saw that, you know, I was trying, you know, to help people any way I can, and that's been kind of what I've always tried to do. Um and just be a good person. It it it seems like it's you know, I fail, I I do fail a lot, but I also try, and uh, you know, and it is it's not that hard to be just a smiling face. It's it really isn't. So thank you for that. Um and as far as uh meeting people, yes, I've been so fortunate. Um we you and I, I felt like we just hit it off. We you know, we were in ERT, and then we ended up being in the same core group up at leadership. So we spent a lot of late nights in our group, you know, and uh had a lot of uh fun, crazy times at you know, midnight still working on projects and that knowing we have to be up at, you know, and there again at eight in the morning. Uh a lot of uh uh some just hilarious nights that I know I drove you crazy. And I know uh uh Gilbert, Zach, you uh Mike and uh Rebecca, we uh we had some good nights in there, and I I will never ever forget any of that stuff. You guys made made my imposter syndrome kind of get forgotten for a few minutes when we were just having a good time. Um anyway, so like I said, thank you again. I know you've been off this week and you could have been doing something else other than this. Uh, and we've been trying to get together on this for a while. And um, thank you. Like I just can't thank you enough, and thank you for your friendship. Thank you for always being there for me and listening to some of the silliness that I've spouted out while we were up there. You always just shook your head and was like, okay. So um, anyway, but thank you. Uh, and I just want to thank everybody else for listening. Hope you have a great day. Be safe and be kind of