Trust, Conviction, and Building a Mortgage Company That Honors God with Brian Ziemer

The mortgage industry has seen its share of volatility—but rarely does it see leaders put faith front and center. In this episode of First and Focused, we sit down with Brian Ziemer, Co-Founder and COO of Tithe Lending, to explore what it looks like to integrate faith and finance at scale.

With nearly 30 years of leadership experience through housing booms, crashes, and market resets, Brian shares how God shaped his journey long before launching Tithe in 2023. We discuss navigating economic cycles, leading large teams, stepping into bold faith later in life, and building a company committed to honoring God through mortgage and loving neighbors through generosity. Brian also reflects on fatherhood, legacy, and what it means to finish well in both business and belief.

To learn more about Tithe Lending click here: https://tithelending.com/

To connect with Brian Ziemer click here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-ziemer-5a75b39/

Connect with Mark Greaves: https://www.markgreaves.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I felt this like drift away from what was important. It's a burden sometimes to constantly be analyzing. You're trying to protect your family, you're trying to protect your friends, you're trying to protect your situation. It's just exhausting.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

I love that it's not just about pipelines and spreadsheets. It's about like what are the people behind the deal? Like, how did faith come into all the different ways and things that the change has come over the years?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

I would hope that they see a change, or else I've got more work to do.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

If you could go redo anything, what would you do? Welcome to First and Focused, the podcast where faith meets leadership. I know you're gonna put me on the spot. I don't know what you're gonna ask him to say. I'm Mark Greaves, and in each episode, I sit down with business and industry leaders who put God first in their work and stay focused on building his kingdom through their calling. I could sit here and talk with you all day. Keep up the great work, brother. I love you. I love watching what Jesus is doing in your life. All right, welcome to the First and Focus show, where we bring in leaders from various industries who are putting God first uh in their work and their calling and staying focused on that throughout their mission. Uh today, I'm extremely excited and pumped up about this one because I have my co-founder of Tith Lending, uh personal good friend, Mr. Brian Zemer, in the studio. Brian, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Thank you. I'm grateful to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Yeah, this is uh this is gonna be a lot of fun for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

All right. Me too. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

I've been looking forward to this a long time. So the hardest part for me has been narrowing down what to ask you, uh, mostly because I know a lot of stories that you probably don't want to tell on here. I know a lot of funny stuff. A lot of funny stuff that's happened over the years. Um I'll try to keep it professional as best I can. But uh everybody starts with an intro. So we're gonna let's give them the intro. So, Brian Zemer, you are currently the co-founder and COO of Tithe Lending, a faith-centered mortgage company headquartered in Columbus, Ohio, whose mission statement is to honor God through mortgage and love your neighbors with generous giving. You've led global operations for multiple large mortgage operations, some VC backed, with department headcounts numbering in the high hundreds. You've navigated both business and faith through multiple economic boom and bust cycles while maintaining an optimism for the American homeowner and a love of your vocation. You're a father of two now adult children, Regan and Zach, a graduate of the Ohio State University, Go Bucks, an avid volunteer at various local nonprofits, uh Columbus, Ohio native, and a lover and follower of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Sound good?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Spot on.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

What uh I mean, obviously, I know that the lover and follower of Jesus Christ part is the is the thing that's most near and dear to your heart, but um I also know that you know being a father to Reagan and Zach is near and dear to your heart. Uh the city's near and dear. We're gonna cover a lot of these topics, but um I mean, first question I have for you is I've known you now 17 years, if you can believe it. I cannot. Isn't that weird? I know it is. I still remember the first time I ever met you.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

I remember walking into your office and like shaking your hand and being super nervous because at that point you knew infinitely more about mortgage than I did, uh, which is still probably true, but at that point it was like a really, really wide gap.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

It was it was mutual because you were pretty well hyped, and so I got to meet the legend.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Oh, yeah. Oh, thanks. Well, um the question I have for you though, I've never really asked this, so it'll be good to get on record, is like growing up, I mean, I've known you as a man of faith, you know, the entire way through and through. Obviously, both of us are living that out more seriously now than we were before. But um, was faith always a part of your life growing up? How did how did that start?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

You know, it's amazing. It wasn't. Uh I did not come to Christ until my mid-30s. And so prior to that, I was sort of living for myself and what I thought was the best way to go forward. But, you know, it just wasn't a big part of my childhood. We would go sporadically. Um and it just sort of didn't take root until later on in adulthood.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Was did you feel like something was missing? Like what what brought you to to faith?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Bringing me to my knees brought me to faith. You know, I think when it was a really dark period in my 30s, um when I was divorced and in some difficult times, and you know, it was when I really sort of capitulated and surrendered. And you know, I could feel this presence that I couldn't explain, you know, you know, saying that I got you, but you need to turn it over. You know, we can't I can't help you doing what you're doing. You know, you need to surrender, give me control, and I will I will take care of you, right? I will provide and give you peace, give you rest. And um ever since then I've I've I follow that strategy.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

So of surrender. This is off I've got a boatload of questions, but I just got a follow-up to that. So like being in control, that seems uh that's kind of like your job description. Um a lot of that is like planning and making sure that contingencies are covered and like you're you're an operations person. Is it is it weird to turn over control in this? Basically, not just this area, but but when you turn it over to Jesus, you're turning over your whole life. Was that hard to do?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Absolutely. Um, you know, but as uh experiences racked up after that, um I could see it was the right call, you know, and and it was refreshing. There was a freedom about not feeling like I had to see around every corner, you know, and that's sort of how I walked around is that you know, that I had to anticipate you know things that were coming and and just the freedom of surrender and knowing that I don't, you know, he can and and he'll take good care of me. But it was tough at first, but ultimately it's been so rewarding. It's changed my life to not think that I've got to see everything coming. I've a peace at no end of whatever comes, if I if I rest in Jesus, I'll be okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Well, I can tell you firsthand that's been helpful for me um to have you as a business partner, being that mindset, because there's a lot of twists and turns. I mean, it's in our business, there's been tons of them in the last few years, but um having somebody that can plan for the future, but knowing that even though the future is uncertain, that we have clarity and hope because of you know our beliefs um been a massive help for me. All right, so you've got uh this is a different kind of question, but I've already almost asked it. You've got a very analytical mind, like hyper-analytical mind. Um you've described it as a uh as a condition that I'd never heard of before that was like on Facebook. That was funny. Um, but you see things from a different lens, mostly through the amount of adversity and responsibility that you've had. So is that something that you feel like has helped you uh in your walk with Christ? Like how did he gifted you with this? So, how how has that played out for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Well, I think being able to be thoughtful and prudent about the resources that he's chosen to bless me with um has has benefited from surrendering to him and and realizing again that I don't have to analyze everything. It's a default mindset for me. And you know, to the earlier point, uh it's something I've had to fight against. And I still plan, I still analyze because it's a mental state, but I hold those plans much looser now. Right. I I realize, okay, that's what seems like the best path for the information that I have now, right? And I don't I'm not as nervous about the information changing or if it doesn't go the way I thought, you know. I'm grateful that, you know, his piece is going to be beside me, whatever, whatever he throws at us. But I, you know, it is a it's a burden sometimes to constantly be analyzing, constantly trying to, and you do it for the right reasons, right? You're trying to protect your family, you're trying to protect your friends, you're trying to protect your situation, but it is just exhausting. Yeah. And and the freedom of Jesus is so much better.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Do you think it would have been different if you were in a different line of work? Or do you think that being in the mortgage business with the amount of things to be like considering all the time, do you think that that's amped that up?

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Probably, yes. Absolutely. Um, because he's blessed me with a lot of responsibility and and you know, I take that very seriously. And as you mentioned, there was people who, a lot of folks, who were dependent on me to make sound decisions, whether it was the folks who own the company or the folks who work for me, dependent on me to make sound decisions. So um, with a chaotic environment that mortgage often is, uh, yeah, it's it's probably related to the mortgage business.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

So pivoting into that uh on the mortgage side, so I mean, part of what we, you know, loved about this show is like work is worship if it's done with the right mission and motives and things in mind. And I know that you feel that way about mortgage. So while there's a lot of change and it is a difficult business to thrive in and be good at, uh, you seem to love it. Like what what do you love about it?

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I do love it, right? Because one, I like math. And basic financial math is good enough for me, right, to be good at. Um, but you know, we've talked about this, and every customer we work with benefits, whether it's a refinancer saving money, whether we're getting to the house, like it's it's a vocation where the product of your work is helping someone else. You know, certainly, you know, we get paid to do it, but you get a chance to literally talk to the folks who are closing on a new home or who are waiting to close on a refinance to pay out. You know, you just get that personal vibe. And so I do love it. Um, and it's varied. You know, the thought of having to do something similar day in and day out, week in, week out. Um, I'd have to find something to keep my mind busy if I went down that road.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had this situation, I just thought it was, you know, it was beautiful the way you articulated it just the other day on the phone is you know, we're helping a woman who's first responder get into her first home, um, doesn't have a ton of money for down payment, but we were able to help her with a USDA loan with no money down. She's getting a great interest rate, a house that she can afford. Um, just breaking into homeownership, there's more to it than just the finances and the nuts and the bolts of the deal. I mean, it's that's a a person who's gonna like raise a family potentially in this home, in this community where God wants them, and we get to play a part in that every single day. And you never let us lose sight of that. I love that it's not just about pipelines and spreadsheets, it's about like what are the the people behind the deal, what's happening in their life.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

And the best part too is when they don't think they can do it, right? They don't think there's a program with no money down or with less than 20%. And so when you sort of catch them by surprise and you kind of feel it coming over them that wait a minute, we could do this. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah, no, I totally. All right, so I had this question for you, and I don't think you've ever like necessarily looked at it this way, but you've grown up in Columbus through and through. I mean, you were born here, right? Like probably stone's throw from where we're uh it was really close, yes. Or from where we're recording this. Um, I feel like a a lot of leaders in our city are either brought here by investors, um, they come here for opportunity, whatever that may be. You grew up here. And so now that we're reinvesting and we're helping, you know, nonprofits that are helping struggling communities within our city where you literally were born and raised. Is that something that's near and dear to your heart? Like, talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Oh, I absolutely love it. Now, we talked a second ago. I don't have a basis for comparison for folks who've who've gone into a new town and and done it, but to do it here, to have my family here, um, to see friends potentially see a difference in me. And, you know, with the the work we've been doing with tithe, you know, I'm experiencing this incredible community of human beings that think as we do about faith and giving back and loving our neighbor. And they were here the whole time, you know. It's just I wasn't walking in those circles until really until Tithe. And it's just lifted my spirit tremendously. I think it's a great place to raise children. Um, I'm excited that my kids have opportunity in this town. I'm excited for my family to get to see what we're doing. So you're right, it's been it's been incredible. And and I don't know that I really appreciated it until you sort of uh asked about it, right? It's a blessing, right? To see your family let your family see you evolve as a human being.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

No, that's pretty special. It do you think we're friends of yours and people that you've known, you know, since grade school, high school? I mean, I know you golf with people that you like have known since you were a kid, right? Um were they surprised when you made this move?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

If they are, they haven't said it. Um, but they almost have to be. It was a pretty significant shift in the way I looked at things, the way the things that would come out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Um, there's just more thought to it, and I would hope that they see a change. Um, or else, you know, I've got more work to do.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Yeah. Well, I think that you've you've demonstrated it. What's it like having adult kids now?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Wild. Wild. The conversations we have are, you know, about their fears and anxieties as young adults trying to step into the world. And, you know, they're in these places where I can't just go buy them a toy or rub them on the, you know, rub them, they got to do the work. And I just want to be relentlessly supportive. And I think they're so special and so smart, but uh it's political conversations, economic conversations.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

That they actually understand.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Oh, and and participate in, you know, very, very well. I mean, they've got some some strong beliefs, and and I feed off of that, right? The the the newness of their beliefs, you know, and they came up in a different way than I did. But it it's wild. Wait till your kids get a little older and the conversations that ensue.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

It's weird for me because I can remember distinctly walking into your office and seeing your kids in there. And I think they were a little younger than my kids even are now, like literally like coloring. There was a night you had to come back in and get some work done, you just brought them with you. And it's like, man, now they're adults, they have real jobs, you're they're talking about this kind of stuff with you. Uh I'm not ready for that.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Oh, you are, you are. It's just a different kind of awesome.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I mean, being a parent is has been, you know, one of the biggest blessings of my life, especially with these kids. And it just, you just ease into it. It feels weird now, but it doesn't happen overnight. It's a sort of a process, and when you get there, you it feels like you know, an evolution.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

It's been fun for me to watch you like how proud you are of your adult kids, though. Yeah, they are. They're incredible. It is pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Blessing of my life to be their dad.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Um, all right. So how do I want to go with this now? Because I've got I've got two different directions that I could take it. Um let me ask you this. As you were kind of going through and you know, progressing through your career um over the decades, especially after you came to faith, and you're balancing raising kids, and you're balancing, you know, changing, you know, we were changing company names, we were building companies, some of them started from nothing, and there was a significant amount of work going on. Was it a challenge to your faith, or did your faith help in that process? Like how did faith come into all the different ways and things that the change has come over the years?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

It was a challenge to the faith, you know, in that I wanted to walk the faith. And I, you know, but the mortgage business was incredibly demanding. There is no nine to five in the mortgage business, right? And you know, you've got to pivot to market conditions. It's such an interesting business because I don't know how many industries there are out there where the price of your product is not in your control. You know, the the winds uh in that industry can shift on a dime. And they did in 21 and 22, and in and actually in 20. So just in the the the the hecticness um of everything that was going on, just to remember that I wasn't uh an executive at a company. I wasn't in the mortgage business, I was a child of God, and and to it was a little tougher. One thing that really helped me though was when I started reading devotionals in the car right before I would go in. Uh I was blessed to get a devotional from a former family member. And I would sit there and I would read it in the morning before I would go in. And it just sort of armed me, you know. And but that didn't come till later.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

I felt this like drift away from what was important from God. And the the first easing back in was reading a devotional in the morning right before I got out of the car to kind of frame the whole day.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah. No, that's a really good. If you could go redo anything, what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Oh, you know, I don't know that I would do anything different. I mean, I think I would have re read a devotional every day, uh, for the entire time that I was in the mortgage business, not just sort of come to there when things got, you know, really difficult and I I needed that. But you know, I'm I'm really grateful for the entire ride. Um, so I don't try to I don't really look back with much regret uh because I'm just doing the best I can like everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

You know, and I regret's a terrible feeling. And I I gotta learn to cut myself a little slack and and realize that, you know, I did the best I could with the situation, you know, I had. Yeah. It was a good situation. It was hectic, it was stressful, but it was still good.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Is there anybody um that you look at as like kind of a role model now where you're like, okay, as I move forward, you know, from here, not looking back, but looking forward, like this is kind of the path that I would like to take with the rest of my career, like someone that you would try to model?

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Well, there's several people, right? One is the angel investor for our company. So I don't know if we have time to tell that story. But you should, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I would love it if we did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Incredible. I was uh blessed to have as a mentor and a boss from the time we started at that startup, right? Um, older guy, been in the business for years, and he just operated with such grace, almost unflappable, um, treated everybody with kindness. I maybe heard him raise his voice twice.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

I do remember that.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Right. And uh not the raising voice, but just the way he was. Uh he just he just carried himself with such grace, you know, and you know, and then he was a genius too. He parachuted out of the mortgage business at the absolute perfect time. And um you know, you and I decided to go do this. And after we made the leap, after we there was no going back, we didn't burn the bridge or anything, but there was no going back. Um, you know, he reached out to me on Christmas Eve 2022 and he texted me and he said, Hey, you know, uh what's going on? I heard you're leaving and like to know what you guys are up to. I call him Christmas Eve. He's having people over that night for a Christmas Eve dinner. And he said, Hey, you know, I heard Mark left and now you're going. I was like, I gotta know what's going on. So I told him all about it. And I don't think I was picking up his drift. So he finally just said, you know, do you need capital? And I said, sure. You know, I was caught off guard totally. Um and he didn't just say, Do you need capital? He said, I want to get this done quickly. And he asked us, this is such so interesting. He asked us what we wanted. He didn't have a number in mind. Yeah. He came to that in total humility and letting God lead. And he provided that those funds, which were critical, as you well know, right? To get off the ground. Oh, yeah. And he didn't want anything. I mean, you know, he did take a stake in the company non-voting, but he ultimately gave it back for ten dollars.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Um literally ten dollars.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Literally, yeah. Because all he wanted to do was help this mission. He didn't want his name mentioned, he he didn't want any notoriety. And so that's one guy that definitely has changed my life. If I could go forward and and have the resources to bless other missions, and I don't need to have my name be a part of it. Uh, the only name be known is Jesus. And then I've been blessed to get in this group, Truth at Work, here locally, and it's a Christian business leaders group. We come together once a month for four hours and we talk about our lives and leading uh with faith as our background. And, you know, I've been in there almost three years now, and we've gotten to have some really great relationships with this group, and it's about a dozen guys. And these men, you know, what they're doing with their careers, to see them do similar to what we did and just completely pivot. Uh, some of them pivoting into an industry of which they had no knowledge, and they are doing it fully for the with the the the glory of the Lord, and they just want to live out their faith in business. You know, these guys are an inspiration to me every day, every time we meet. I I'm grateful to learn from them. And I there's uh one guy or a couple guys that are a little older, and the way they've lived their life and the where they are, I'd love to be where they are when I get to that point.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

You know, less um that's one of the things that it I've come to like lean on is like I want to have less regrets when I don't have time left. So, like, how can we live out the rest of our careers um following the Holy Spirit and where Jesus leads so that when we get to the end, we don't look back and think that any of this was wasted. Um so it's just listening and in prayer and and trying to glorify the name of God. Yeah, that's that's huge. The Holy Spirit was so involved in that first story of our investor. I mean, that was one of those things I feel like um maybe God knew what we were gonna be up against in 2023 and 2024, mortgage industry wasn't exactly doing great, but the fact that he provided that up front gave us so much wind at our back and so much confidence that we were on the right track. D did you ever talk to him about what came over him? Was it the Holy Spirit that that made that move? Was it his love for you?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Like what it was his love for the mission. He had been in it, he's in a good place in his life, resource-wise, and he had a generous spirit. And, you know, I think the thought of bringing faith into business and talking openly about that. And you know, he didn't really know, nor did I, maybe you did, how the foundation would take off as a result, you know, of tide lending again. He had no idea.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Um I don't even think we talked about that because it wasn't really an idea we had yet.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

No, I mean, well, we obviously wanted to support it and grow it, but like to the extent that it's yeah, it's grown, he had no idea. But um yeah, just it came over him to be generous, have a generous heart, have a giving heart, right? And I think he had confidence in us, yeah, that we weren't gonna squander the resources or the opportunity. And um he made an incredible selfless act.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Do you feel like looking at the future now, is that is that kind of what gives you a little bit of peace? I mean Knowing that we already covered like the the analytical nature of your mind and the preventative nature of the way that you plan and how you know seriously take those responsibilities. Just watching how God provided in that moment, does that give you more peace about the future one way or the other?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Oh, 100%. And it's just not it's not just that moment. You know, we was a couple of times where you know it was a challenging environment. It was a difficult environment, 2023. The mortgage business changes, and you know, there was a time we needed people. And, you know, your work on LinkedIn and talking about the mission, then three people just showed up.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Said, hey, we want to come work for Todd. You know? Um, there's been numerous instances like where when we really needed it. And I don't even think we knew what it was.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Right? It showed up, you know, and that's why I sort of hold my plans loosely now. But I also just go to sleep with this, just I go to sleep with a lot of confidence that we'll be okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

We'll be okay. Even if it gets tough, don't abandon the faith, don't don't worry, Matthew 6. You know, do not worry about, you know, providing for yourself. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

So we've kind of answered this question, but I d I'm curious if there's any other specific stories that you've got since starting this in 2023. Is there anything else that have strengthened your trust in God's plan, particularly when it when it comes to business? Because I feel like there's a lot of folks who want to incorporate their faith with their work or they want to lean into more of a mission-minded business strategy, but they have apprehensions. It's hard to go in with trust initially if you haven't seen some of these things play out. So is there any other stories that you've got where you'd encourage people? Yeah, like lean in.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Oh, but you know, do. And because I've seen people change industries. Uh they where they know nothing, right? And about that particular industry. Uh one gentleman uh making chocolate.

unknown 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Never made chocolate. And he's absolutely using it to that platform to glorify the Lord. Um, that's not the only story, right, of folks stepping out. But it there does seem to be this trend that I've noticed that they've got to step out first, yeah, is what I've noticed, right? They've got to they've got to believe that you know, they've got to figure this out. And um he comes to bless that missing. So when he's got blessed with a beautiful piece of real estate, everything's just sort of fallen into place. And uh that's just one example. Um, you know, the folks that with the the Thai Foundation, just to see how these folks are being open about it, uh, you know, if you look at LifeWise, we were just there at LifeWise last night. And I know that's not our story. Yeah, you know what I mean? But I was blown away at the growth and and how they talked about how many times they didn't think it was gonna work. And just like us, right, when they needed it, they knew what it was, it, um, it arrived. And so there are multiple stories like that where folks have stepped out in faith. Now they've and they've been overt about their faith. And that is, you know, that has given me a lot of peace that we're on the right track. Um, but but yeah, just folks stepping out in faith, weather their business and and to be open about it, to talk about it, to tithe profit, yeah, right, to have their logo up, right, where everybody can see it, right? That's what we've always wanted was to sort of, you know, maybe break any taboo we thought there was about sharing your faith in your business. We're pretty overt about it, right? And it's not, it's okay if one isn't, but um, the number of people that seem to come out of the, I don't want to say the shadows, because they were only shadows to me.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

They were all being great people all along, but the number of people came and embraced it, to the amount of money we've been able to give through the foundation, and it's not all from tithe. Um, you know, Matt Wooster, the partner you have in the that we have in the foundation, right? Incredible. Yeah. So I'm just seeing all these incredible human beings, and they they put big resources on their goals. Yes, and that's a big resource, right? And so um it's been really inspiring to know how many people either are doing what we're doing, open about faith and business, um, or or are open to doing it, uh, has just really lifted my spirit, fills my cup for sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Why do you think God makes it so that you have to take the faith step before he's gonna show you what the next step of the path looks like? Do you feel like there's a reason for that? Like what have you learned? Because you mentioned it and I see it too. Um people feel a prompting, you know, the Holy Spirit can be active and alive in your heart, but God's not just gonna lay it all out for you. Like he's gonna make you take a step that looks real scary first. I I don't why do you think he does that?

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Uh, I believe it's a test, a test of your faith, how you're willing to combine your faith. You know how I feel about the parable of talents, and I think it's uh I think it's in the gospels twice, but you know, each person got a certain amount of resources, and one grew it five times. He stepped out in faith, he wasn't afraid to lose the money, and we won't go through the whole parable, but the guy at the bottom was afraid, and and you know, and he literally talked about his fear and he didn't really talk great about the person who gave it. And you know, he was chastised, he was not rewarded. So to whom much was given, and you stewarded it well, you receive more. You know, but he he put the resources in their hands in the parable of talents just to see what they would do with it.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

You know, and and you know how I feel about that, and we need to be the person that grows it five times.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Well, you were the one that gave me the tagline, like even David had to pick up the rock.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Like you gave me that whole thing. Again, you're right. He can he can arm that's a great story, by the way. That's my favorite story in the Bible. But you know, he can arm you and give it, but there's this moment where he needs you to go do it. This is just my personal belief, right? And I'm not qualified to speak for anybody else but me. But um, I think there's this moment where he wants you to step out. You know, I told you about the meme that uh hit me kind of hard, was that you know, God said he would, you know, give the birds and the beat and everything they need, but he didn't deliver deliver it to their nest. He doesn't deliver it to their nest. Oh, that's good. You know, so on one hand is don't worry, look how well he takes care of you know the animals and the birds, and how much better would he treat you. Um, but he doesn't deliver it to their nest. Yeah, there's no door dash to that. Like there's there's it's not coming that way. No, that's good. That seems like it's all over, whether it's our personal experience, it's in the word, right? He does it all the time to where, you know, he needs you to step out and show that you trust him.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

And then he rewards that. Not every time, right? Let's be real, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Let's not and in different ways and not right away.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

It's not always monetary, you know, but um, if you're paying attention, right, he's blessing you if you step out in faith.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

I think one of the things he's blessed us, you've already touched on it with just like with your truth at work group, but who has surrounded us now? Uh there's there's people that we've influenced that have now gotten in the game where they're they're revising missions and they're thinking differently about their work. And there's also people who are further along than us uh who have come alongside us that you know have been encouraging and helped us connect dots and things like that. I feel like one of the big blessings is when you step out, like God's ready there. Like there's there's a community, the body of Christ is ready to rally. And what I see is like a lot of these businesses that that lean in, there's a bunch of people out there who probably want to, maybe just don't have the courage yet. Maybe they're a little bit afraid, but they're gonna go support you and rally around that business or rally around that leader. And then the more of us that do, uh, the more contagious it is. There's kind of like a gravitational effect to it. I don't know if you're feeling that at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Oh, absolutely. And what's interesting though is about is how I look back with hindsight. And for a long time, I thought I was a genius, you know, and I just made all the right moves, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Uh you're close in certain ways.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Well, I don't know about all that. But uh, you know, as I look back though, in hindsight, all these things, you know, that sort of fell into place and and decisions that worked out, you know, you really start to look at that and say, how many coincidences can there possibly be before there's an intelligent design to what's been going on? And, you know, for the guy truth at work, I'll be we I feel bad saying this, but I ignored him for a year, you know, and uh and he just he showed up at our table at a warm breakfast.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

And I'm embarrassed, right? Because I've been ignoring this guy's LinkedIn reach outs for a year. I'm humiliating, really. And he showed nothing but grace, didn't care about any of it. Um, and then lo and behold, you know, that group's been one of the best things that's happened to me as an adult. But like he was planning that the whole time while I was ignoring it. Uh, and then when that group got started, it only had three or four people. There's only three or four of us. And now it's 12 is sort of the max size. And and so he is just working all the time in ways that we can't see, unfortunately, without the benefit of hindsight, uh, unless we apply what we've learned to say, hey, wait a minute, maybe that's going on here, and I just don't see it yet.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

No, that's that's really, really good. Because I feel like sometimes it does take us a while to get it. I know maybe it does. Not everybody comes around right away. I mean, that's that's why the majority of, I mean, really up until just a few years ago, I wasn't doing it. I know that you you and I had shared our faith together, like, but I was afraid to even go hit like on a LinkedIn post about God, and I sure as heck wasn't going and sharing it outside of the walls of the office. You know, so it was uh yeah, a lot of things have changed in that regard. So uh another follow-up question I have for you is when you think about if there's if there's folks that are like, hey, I could do that if I was in a different industry, but my industry is too difficult. Like I I can't share this with customers, I can't go share this with referral partners. What would you say to the person who is maybe like a little bit timid? Is there ways in which we operate that um at tithe, like internally, like that you think, hey, everybody could do that? Like that's not all the loft limits to anybody. Well, how would you encourage that person?

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Well, I would encourage them uh to walk by faith first, right? And let folks see his light in you. Uh and you know, not every business has that opportunity, you know, whether they're not people intensive, you know. Um, and so do what one can do in the position you're in. Um, you know, I'm a big fan of volunteering, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

That's my next that's my next question.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, you know, you know, let folks see you volunteer. Yeah, you know, let folks see you love your neighbor. Um, let folks see you give grace when a normal person would have not done that. And and ask you're hoping that they wonder what's different about you.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

You know, because you're not acting like everybody else, or or not, in my case, not acting like you have always acted.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

You know, so that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Change and walk the walk. Now you mentioned volunteering, and that's the thing that I uh this is my personal opinion. I've watched you change, probably more specifically through hands-on helping people meet needs, whether it's bed brigade, whether it's homeless stuff, whether it's uh Mid Ohio food bank. I know you're probably like got a plaque on their wall at this point uh with how many hours you've served there. What is it about volunteering? Like what what happens inside of you when you volunteer that you keep going back so often?

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Well, first I want to say a big part of my ability to volunteer, so many volunteering opportunities are during the week, right? So I have the time and the freedom. So if anyone's not volunteering, totally get it. It's you know, you've got to find that. But there are a lot of places, right? And a lot of times you can do it. You know, and again, it goes back to thinking that I it was me in this life. And, you know, you get a chance to see folks who are dealt different cards, and um you feel for them. And you just want to come, you know, you know how blessed you've been.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

And at least for me, the thought that I could be any kind of a blessing to these folks, it really humanizes need. You know, you read about it and it's sort of abstract, but go shake somebody's hand that you're handing a meal to, you know, go to Mid Ohio and see, you know, a massive warehouse that's 40 foot high, uh stacked at a rafters with food that has come in from organizations that are willing to give it, yeah, uh, to an infrastructure that knows how to give it out. You know, this the scope of the need, the human beings that are involved, like it's really changed me, it's touched me. And it I've come so far from thinking that I had a lot to do with how my life has turned out, to really realizing that I was put in certain circumstances that allowed me to make a decision. But putting me in those circumstances, I've been really blessed. Yeah. Even just to have a middle class that means I'm not grow up rich or anything like that. Um, but just seeing the need, seeing how folks, if they had had a different break, uh potentially wouldn't be where they are, it's just it humanizes need for me.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah, no, that's really good. I feel like um when you go and meet certain people and you're like, wow, I'm having a conversation and just our set of circumstances were totally different. I'd probably be where you are if I was just born at a different place at a different time. That's just how it goes. So we kind of got a lucky card drawn. But I feel like some of that's our responsibility, like as men of faith, like Jesus says, like if you who you did for the least of these, you did unto me, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:14

You know, I love that part too. I was actually just reading that. But yes, that is something that comes over me a lot, actually. I've been doing the Bible in a year thing and for several years now. And you know, I don't know how that's a powerful set of verses right there.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Um, what you did for the least of these, you did for me. Um, what you did to the least of these, you did to me. And so it just I don't know. I I get sort of speechless, and you know I'm rarely speechless, but just to to be around those other folks who also want to be the hands and feet. Yeah. So you humanize the need, right? This is the cool part. You humanize the need. You you really understand folks didn't make a bunch of bad decisions out there. They're not there because they were foolish with resources, most of them. And you know, then you get a chance on the other side to work with so many people you didn't even know existed.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

It's this entire community. And to oftentimes folks don't volunteer at one place. You'll see them at other places. And so it's on one hand, you're humanizing a need, and on the other hand, you're you're you're seeing the depth of the of the love that people other than you have been walking around with all this time.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

And it's just you combine those two forces, and it's uh I don't know. It's it's it really, it really gets me fired up and it makes me feel like I'm doing the best I can to walk the walk.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Well, I feel like this next question you're gonna tell me I I think I kind of know where your answer is gonna go based on this answer you just gave, but um, at our current business, so we don't give 10% of the profit. We give 10% of the revenue, which in this past year, 2025, was almost all the profit, like 90 plus percent of it. Like it was Does that ever make you nervous? No, because I would say if I interviewed 10 CEOs or COOs and said, Hey, your company's a for-profit business, but you're gonna give away all the profit, they would probably say, Well, that's a nonprofit, right? Like that's why how are you able to operate this business for us knowing that that's gonna be how it goes, um, and still have confidence for the future? Faith.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

You know, I've seen what he's done, and I don't even know what's in the future. No idea. Um, but he is provided whenever we have needed. And the reason why we're close to being a nonprofit um is because we're giving that money out to love our neighbor. You know, when we started this, it was just love on our neighbor. It's right in the word. You know, we talked about this in our last conversation. Peter asked, What are the top two? Number two is love your neighbor.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

And so um, you know, that's been that's been real special for me.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yeah, no, that's good. So when you think about um if you could go fast forward and look back and they're saying, like, hey, this is the legacy of Brian Zemer and Tithe Lending, what would you want like your kids, what would you want people to know about you based off of what you were trying to go do um with this mission of tithe?

SPEAKER_00 38:18

You know, it's interesting because one of my favorite songs is only Jesus. And it talks about make a name for yourself and and whatnot, and it says, no, the only name is Jesus, right? And so I'm pretty I'm kind of a literal guy, as you know, sometimes. And so I I don't know that I I ever think about that. I just want them to look at the product of tide lending, that that the foundation has grown, the foundation is giving. And I know this sounds weird. Um, you know, I don't mind being in the background, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Uh I don't, you know, I want my I'd like for my family to know that I walk the walk. It was important to me because I want to leave a mark on them and and show them the way, um, lead them to Christ. But I don't think at all about my legacy ever. You know what I mean? I I'm a grateful dude doing you know, performing an opportunity that I've been so blessed to get.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

You know, my name I almost feel is irrelevant.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

And that is why uh I think it'll end up being pretty special to those that you leave behind here, because not many people give that answer. There's not many C-suite executives that will give an answer that has nothing to do with themselves.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Well, there's but yeah, there's hopefully there's more than we think, and we'll find them in the coming years, and they'll join the foundation and we'll we'll grow the foundation and the giving together.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Well, I can tell you that's why I love being your partner. Um that's why I love the conversations we have every single week, staying grounded in the mission, um, staying rooted in the reason why we started it, and then staying true to it, walking it out even when it's hard, and just trusting that God's got the next steps, and we're just gonna keep living this thing out the best way we can.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

I completely trust. Yeah. No worries, no fears.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Well, I love it. And that gives me all the reassurance that I need. So, well, any uh any parting words for uh the audience here trust, surrender, a couple of key words in my life.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Um, and when I'm anxious, which is a lot, mind you, um, you know, I remind myself that it's not on me at the end of my strength is the beginning of his. And so I would just encourage people who are anxious. You know, I don't know of a better cure for anxiety than trusting Jesus. I don't, you know, and so I would just encourage people when they're scared, um crack open a Bible, talk to somebody that has faith, let them talk you through how they've had difficulty and they steered neighbor steered through it. Um, you know, some things happen. He doesn't uh what is it, he won't call you to it if he's not gonna walk you through it. Yeah, he doesn't call the equipped, he equips the call. I can, you know, I love the one-liners. But you know, it's all relating to trust and surrender. And it's giving me a tremendous piece in my life these last few years with Ty that I've never had as an adult. I've always been scared on the inside that I'm gonna make a mistake, I'm gonna disappoint someone, I'm gonna let him down. And I don't have that anymore, you know, because I know I'm doing the best my can best I can, and I trust. I surrender.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

It's pretty cool. Well, thank you for being the backbone of our operation. Um and also and also thank you for being the backbone, just not of your truth at work. There, there's something special about men um who can be the backbone and the foundation and do the hard work behind the scenes without ever having a desire to get the credit, but it's even more special to have those do that work with the desire to have Jesus get the credit. So just thank you for everything that you do. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

I want to take this point uh time to to thank you. You've done an outstanding job uh advocating for the Lord. Uh, you're out front, your public, the people we get to work with. I'm I'm so grateful to work with those folks. But you know, I really feel like God has his hands on this mission and you're the one out front leading it. And it's tough to be out front. And I just want to thank you for the relentless way you've gone about promoting tithe, promoting the Lord in business. Uh you've been a real blessing to this mission, and and you're the one leading this mission. And I'm grateful to be your partner.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

I appreciate it, man. And likewise. So, well, we're over and out for everybody uh watching. If you want access to more episodes, uh, this one or any other resources, you can get them at markgreaves.com or wherever you get your podcasts.