Small Business Websites & SEO: Do You Really Need One? [Ep. 20]

Many business owners believe the next step in growing their business is building a website.

But what if the real issue isn't your website?

In this episode, I sit down with web designer and SEO strategist Nathalia Brasileiro to discuss what business owners should focus on before investing in a website, why systems and automation matter more than most people realize, and how SEO helps attract the right clients long after a social media post disappears.

Whether you're considering your first website, thinking about a redesign, or trying to increase your visibility online, this episode will help you think strategically about how your website should support your business goals.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why your systems should come before your website
• How SEO helps create long-term visibility
• The biggest mistakes business owners make online
• Why consistency matters for Google and AI search
• The danger of relying exclusively on referrals
• Why women entrepreneurs need more conversations about business growth, strategy, and finances

Connect with Nathalia, Founder & Designer:

 www.viksen.co

Instagram: @viksencreative

Follow me on Instagram: @uniqueblendconsulting 

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Hasta luego, amigas. Bendiciones. 

Transcript

0:00

Hola amigas, this podcast is for Latina entrepreneurs building businesses while navigating faith, culture, and yes, motherhood. We unpack how your story shapes your leadership and build real-life systems that help you grow without burning out. This is where Kozura meets strategy. So let's go. Welcome to the Latina Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm your host, Anya Mercado, and today we have the beautiful Natalia Brasileiro, is a Brazilian-born entrepreneur, digital strategist, and the founder of Fixin Creative, a boutique web design and strategy studio based in the beautiful Kailua, Hawaii. Oh my gosh, I'm jealous. I'm sure you get that all the time. Such an inspiration, right? You get all the inspiration from there. And then with over a decade of experience in SEO, paid media, and web strategy. And after 12 years of running both her creative business aside of a corporate career, which is crazy in behavioral health marketing, Natalia has really decided in 2026 to go all in. And as a military spouse and mother, she brings the scrappy resources. I'm sure it's not scrappy. I'm sure it's like top of the line. She tries to underline this, but no, it can be scrappy, but no, no scrappiness here. She is amazing, talented. And really her mission is to make sure that every woman entrepreneur stops playing small online. So welcome to the Latina Entrepreneur Podcast. And thank you so much for being here, Natalia. Oh, thanks for inviting me. No, I'm excited. Always before we start, I like to ask what's your favorite traditional dessert? So I actually don't know how traditional this is to Brazilians, but it's very traditional in my home. This my mom would call delicious, which literally translates to pineapple deliciousness. And you make the pineapple sweet where you cook down the pineapple with some sugar. You put it on a on a tray, on uh, what is those things called? A tapo, like a Pyrex. And then you do a sweet where it's like you use condensed milk and you mix with like butter and all that, and then you put on top of it, and then you do a final layer of table cream blended with some sugar, and then you put it in the freezer, and then it turns into this delicious ice cream. And this was like every Christmas, this was the dessert. Now, Christmas is not the same without the least of a cache. So I can't even say that, but it sounds delicious. Yeah, just call it pineapple deliciousness. Pineapple is delicious. That's what my husband calls it. Oh my goodness, that sounds delicious. Maybe you could bring that to your tradition in your home now. Yes, start trying to make it. Send some over to my side. Yes, we'll do. Oh my goodness. Let's talk about your journey. You have been working, I can't believe it. You have been working both your business, building your business, and also a corporate career 12 years. You're born and raised in Brazil, from what I know. So talk to us a little bit about your journey from growing up in Brazil, what got you into this creative mind? When did you find out this was the thing for you? And then I'm sure I will have other questions for you that you maybe you can share some tips for us entrepreneurs here. So take it away. Uh, so the scrappiness that I talk about really comes to my background because when I first moved here, I was an international student. So it's not like I could just work anywhere. So I started just hustling on the side, freelancing, doing things that I could here and there. And I think that's when the entrepreneurial spirit started because it's like out of survival mode, right? I had to do this. I went to college in New York City, which has always been an expensive city. So it was out of that, I was just like being scrappy, trying to find what I could to build my experience, build my expertise. So I did a lot of like unpaid work and like all that kind of stuff just to grow my knowledge base. But I never stopped freelancing on the side. I was always doing the creative stuff, doing social media SEO for clients here and there. But I was taught that you go to college and you get a career in corporate, and that's the only way to do it. I didn't have a role model in my life that I didn't come from an entrepreneurial family. I didn't come from a working mom. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. My dad was in the Brazilian Air Force, so I came from a very stable background where he taught me like that's what you do. You just get a job. So I always saw my business as like my side gig. I always called it a side gig, a freelance work or all of that. And um I did it for 12 years. And it wasn't until I realized just when I had my son that really the corporate life was good for me, but it wasn't fulfilling because there was so much that I had to go against. There was just so much that I valued over just going and doing work for someone. And I realized just how much I'm like driven by passion and corporate just wasn't supporting that. So I decided to take my side gig and be like, okay, well, I'm already doing this. Why don't I just go full-time and have full control over who I can help and how much my work can support other women, people that I'm actually passionate about. Yeah, no, that's amazing. And I feel like that's one of the things that a lot of people incorporate, and especially if you're born with this gift of being a creative, a creator. It's like you're never gonna be just okay with being in one place. It's just you just can't. I think it's just in us, right? That we're like, we know it's more, it's a great foundation. I don't get me wrong, I come from corporate background as well, and it gave me a good foundation, structure, right? Like I can see the good and the bad, right? But at the end of the day, just like you, you know, you realized that you just it wasn't for you, right? And I think a lot of people do go through that process. So yeah, no, that's incredible. Ever since I was young, my mom tells the story. When I was like five years old, I told her that when I was 10, I would move to Europe and adopt a bunch of kids and just build my own business and support them. What 10-year-old says, well, five-year-old says that. Oh my goodness, yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. Oh my goodness. So, what right now in your business? You said you started in this year, you decided to launch on your own as you're starting your journey now by yourself. What have been some challenges or things that are going good too? Because this doesn't mean that it's all negative, it's also a lot of good things that come with stepping away and doing your own thing. Yeah, no, I love it. I think the connections that I'm making are incredible. I also think stepping into entrepreneurship full time has really helped me break down some of the money misconceptions and blocks that I had before. Because one thing that I think comes from corporate is you don't talk about your salary, right? Like a long time, it's like you're not even technically allowed to talk about your salary. There's so much secrecy around it, and it felt like I wasn't allowed to negotiate, I wasn't allowed to charge my value, I wasn't allowed to talk about money. And stepping into entrepreneurship full-time has been very eye-opening of no, like this is actually keeping women down. Let's talk about it, let's like ask for what we need. So business is going great. I'm like working with amazing women, but I think that part has been like a huge mindset shift for me that I don't think would have happened if I didn't step into this full time. Some of the hardships, I think it's as someone who is very go-go, the boring part of business is making me be like, oh yeah, I gotta actually sit down and do my books. I actually gotta sit down and those little operational things that when I was just freelancing, I just did as it went. But now it's like I need to build a foundation. So I think that is the hardship is like doing all the boring stuff that will actually build my business. Yes, that is true. And that sometimes, especially in the early days. And I remember it was like I was so busy. I actually tried not to touch the boring part, right? And then it would accumulate. Next thing I know, it's like almost the end of the year or six months in, and I'm like, oh my goodness, like now I have this bunch of paperwork. I have catch up on my expenses. What is really because tax season's just around the corner, and I was like freaking out, and then at the same time trying to manage all the to-d's with clients and things like that, and it gets because to me, and what we do is our priorities are our clients, right? So it's like everything else is like, yeah, balance of not having somebody to respond to, and I am the only one holding myself accountable. Yes, has been a shift, but a good shift, learning a learning curve, but nothing that we can't handle. Yeah, no, that's true. I I totally agree with you. It's just getting, I feel like self-awareness, knowing like where you're good at, what you're not good at, and knowing that you have to get things done. So let's make sure we plan for things, prioritize them as needed, and just set some structure around your schedule. Because at the end of the day, we control it, right? And and as long as we continue to do that, we're okay uh until we're able to get and hire people to support us and help us uh along the way. So, yeah, that's true. So, right now, can you tell us a little bit about what you what you focus on? What are you seeing some challenges in the virtual world, online world, websites? Because I know there's a lot of changes that are happening. I'm sure you're trying to keep up and catch up on things, but we would like to know your expertise and your um. Yeah, um, I think the biggest thing right now is AI. There is a lot of AI has opened the doors for people to do so much more with so much less resources that I'm starting to see a little shift in the market where the big players out there are actually taking steps towards controlling a little bit of that and maintaining a little bit of the humanity. So three huge things, indicators, just patterns that I've saw out there is one, I'm sure everybody has seen the new instance on Instagram where you just take a photo, you can't modify it, you can't upload it, you can't apply any filters, it's very raw, very human. Then you have on LinkedIn, there's tons of jobs opening up for people to write copy that makes CEOs and COOs sound more human online, taking into consideration all of the AI tells. And then Google actually have has released a search update as of recent that is primarily focused on trust and expertise. So it's so easy. I'm sure everybody has heard of the AI vibe coding and people making websites and making content with AI. Correct. Yeah, that there's just so much stuff and so much content out there, but Google is really prioritizing for SEO purposes true specific experiences. So I think the people that are able to still touch back into the humanity, be very specific about their expertise, who they help, how build case studies of like how they've made their client go from point A to point B and everything in between. Those are things that AI can't replicate because AI doesn't have the human experience. I think the people that can get ahead of that will see huge lifts when it comes to the organic traffic. The organic traffic from Google. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think I've heard a little bit of that alongside of people are using now Chat GPT or the clouds or everything for their search engines, right? More so than Google. So it's great that, yeah, Google's trying to step up and bring that in because at the end of the day, people are looking for answers now, like full on, like you said, case studies, like how do we do this and that human side of things. And to your point, it sounds like more like maybe like the long-form content, right? Out there where it explains where we're having conversations like this, and it'll pick up something that we're discussed, right? And then the websites would be like maybe would that be like blogs or something like that? Yeah, I think blogs are a great way, but I think the differential there isn't necessarily the length of content, but how specific the content is. For example, AI can spit out a tagline for your website that and I'm gonna use myself as an example. If I ask AI to write something up for me to put on my website, it's probably gonna write something along the lines of I help women become more visible online through digital strategy and websites, something like that. But then it's my job to go in and be like, okay, but how exactly do I do that? I have a client who a week after she launched her website, she started ranking number four on Google. Like those are very specific things that only I know through experience, and it's not just a bunch of like fluffy keywords that AI just pulls out of there to try and figure out what people are searching for. It's actually giving like that very specific, like who is the client? What keywords do they go for? What number do they rank on number one, two, or three, and four? What exactly is going on? So I think being very specific about who you are, what you do in those case studies is what's gonna hint at Google and hint at the humans that oh, this is real. This is not just AI typing up a bunch of stuff that they find online and recreating content. Yeah, no, that's true. Yeah, because I'm starting to see a lot of that popping up and hearing about it, just us you're talking about it. Yeah, that's great. So let me ask, I'm gonna throw a question here because I know there's some people that are divided in this whole website thing, especially entrepreneurs early on and some that have been in business doing business without a website. What's your take on that? I think it's fine, honestly. From um a web designer, I tell people that all the time. It's fine. Um, I don't think, I actually don't think people starting out need a website right away. I think it's a waste of resource because when you're first starting, you don't really know who your ideal client is. You might know, oh, I want to work with women or I want to work with Latinas, but you don't really know their pain points. As you start building your business, people start giving you that information of like why they chose to work with you, why out of everybody in the sea, your package or your services spoke to them more than others. You start finding words that you connect with more. In the beginning, you don't have that, you don't really know. So I say you need somewhere for people to land anywhere, whether it's a Google form, anything outside of social media, because I you can't really trust in that social media is a space that you don't own. So I think you need a space that you own, but that can be a Google form, that can be anything, really, like a Canva page, like anything that people land and contact you and can get your information, and then save your money and start gathering information about who you are, who your client is, how exactly are you solving? Start gathering testimonials because what I see a lot is people just start with a website, and then six months later they're like, This doesn't even represent me anymore. Correct. I did that, I redid my website like probably five times before I made it in what it is now. So yeah, you're you're you're creative, right? So you're probably like nitpicking at it because you're like, you could do it with your eyes closed. So you're just like, ah, today I don't feel pink, I feel orange. It happens. My mind is also very much on the like analytical side of things. So in my mind, like if there isn't a reason for something to exist, it doesn't need to exist right now. Is it cute? Is it like sure, like whatever, but if there isn't a reason for it to exist, let's wait. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And thank you for being honest in that because it's true. A lot of the times where you know, especially right now, we're starting to see a shift where more and more people are leaving corporate or leaving jobs and starting a business, and they think I need a website, and it's expensive. I've been there, uh as we've all been there, especially because I like tech. So to me, it was like more fun, like a hobby. Oh, I get to learn how to do this and I get to design. But at the end of the day, I didn't even know, like to your point, was this the right thing? And most of my clients were coming in from referrals, people that I work with. So they weren't looking at my website, nobody's looking at the website, right? So to your point, you have to be mindful of that, like making sure we bring in the clients, we learn about who our ideal client is that we want to work with. What do we do, right? And what is it make doing a transformation? Collecting testimonials. Yeah. I would go a step further and I would say before you build a website, it's very important that your systems are in place because I don't believe in websites that just exist to exist. It needs to support your goals somehow with integrations with your system so that you're not scrambling. And as you grow, it supports your growth. So I think it's really important that you have a system in place that can then be integrated into your website once you get it. So whether it's your CRM or your automations and your where your form is coming through, your you have a newsletter like where people are coming in and how they're automate being automated in your system. I would say it's more important for people to spend time first in building that foundation strong so that when you do get to invest on a website, that is a building block, right? You have a foundation, and then your website comes in and really makes you step up your game, and then it's you grow from there. But I would say systems are like yeah, and I love that because then it's easier to then make changes to the front page because you already have all the back end systems figured out, and yeah, and I think it then everything just works more organically and efficiently. Yeah, that's so true. I love that now. Let's talk a little bit about just your the last the last couple of years that you've been doing your work and where you're going right now. What are some things that you're focusing more on in your business that you think are, you know, given how things are changing, that you're seeing, okay, you know what? I think I'm gonna focus more on in this area of the business, more so than what I used to. Are you experiencing something similar to that? Yeah, I think like a strong SEO strategy is key because I think that's how you combat the the crazy volume. Like anybody can make a website and so many tools out there that you can just have AI generate your your website for you. But there has been some research that shows that AI content tends to get really quick traffic from Google because it gets the signals are so strong, but then Google kills the signals and then immediately goes down. So I think it's really important. I've been spending a lot of time on the front end with my clients to make sure that their SEO is solid before we build anything because we want to build something that is going to last and it keeps growing over time and it doesn't just hit that and dies off. So I think SEO is extremely important right now. On not only for Google, but like you said, the AI searches that are happening, content needs to be laid out in a certain way for AI to be able to digest it. So it's really important to take that stuff into consideration, just how the machine works. It's for me, it's like I love the creative part of it and the human psychology and how people process information and digest your content and what makes them want to convert or not. And that's all fun stuff, but we need to first get the humans there. And we do that by playing the machine game, unfortunately. So that has been a huge focus for me is continue to learn how are the machines working, how's the algorithm changing, how should we be laying out content to make sure that my clients are not just like shooting up and down, they're really riding that wave consistently and seeing incremental growth. Yeah, no, that's good. And right now with SEO, so you that is like the number one thing people should start focusing on the in their websites and not just having a website because then it does nothing, right? It's just basically there, but doesn't do nothing for you. What are some tips? That people should look into or start thinking about if they haven't already apply focus on SEO. Uh, I think the number one thing is consistency. So the thing that people miss out on SEO is that it's not just one thing that you do, it's several different little breadcrumbs that you leave around for Google to understand who you are and what you do. And those breadcrumbs need to be consistent. So, number one thing is choose, do some research and choose how you want to show up in the market, like what type of keywords you want to be ranking for and make sure that there's search volume to those keywords. And there's several tools out there that you can use to see if a keyword has a volume on one of I use SEM Rush a lot, but there's a lot of tools out there that you can use for that. And then once you identify how you want to show up, then everything else needs to do that, not just your website, but your social media profile, your Google business profile, things that are in your footer, your metadata, like everything needs to speak the same language for Google to understand you and for AI to understand you. So I would say the number one thing is consistency. Because I see a lot of people being like, here's an example for a therapist, for example. There's several different ways that somebody can say they're a therapist. They can be called like an anxiety counselor, they can be called a therapist for ADHD. They can, there's all these different things. Choose one. I know that it's so hard as an entrepreneur because we want to do everything and be everything for everyone, but you have to choose one and be consistent everywhere. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's the hard part. That's why we need experts like you to help us focus. All right, talk. I know you want to be everything for everyone. I just had a call with the therapist, and she's that's the problem. I don't know what I want to focus on. And I said, Then it's your homework, girl. You need to go and figure it out. You have to do it. Yeah, it's so hard. It's just what do you call them like multi-passionate, right? It's just like we we just have all these things and people are like, How do you do it all? I'm like, I don't know. It doesn't feel draining when you're doing the thing you love to do at the end of the day. Yeah. And so, what are your recommendations for somebody at what stage should they start focusing on on building the SEO? And we talked about the websites, but really hiring somebody like yourself to do this type of job, like what it where they need to be. So there's a couple signs. The first one is that like I would say 80 to 90 percent of your business is referral. That's scary to me, and you do have the capacity to do that. That's scary because here's why. Because you, your business revenue is directly tied to whether somebody's talking about you at a party or not. Correct. And I'm changing that, I'm changing that. Everybody listening, I'm working on that because yes, y'all do it. Listen to Natalia right now, she's preaching to me. Go ahead, keep doing it, girl. Everything I'll do it, and that's scary. So that I would say that business that is 80 to 90 percent reliant on referral, let's get you to the next level and find people that are searching for your services but don't know your name. That's number one. Number two is you are at a place now where you're very solid on your on what you offer, like your packages, your services, you're going towards. But then you always send your website and you're like, you there's a you know, yes, oh, that doesn't really include everything I do, or that doesn't really speak to this. You give a little preface, and I always joke, it's remember when we were in high school and we would be like, you we would send a picture of our crush to our friends and be like, he's cuter in person. Yes, you we all know that feeling. You can feel that feeling when you send your website out. There's a mismatch over there, and it's not just about to me, it's not just about vibes, it's about what's gonna happen is you're probably that tells me that you're probably not charging what you should be charging because you don't feel confident and how people are finding it. So once we elevate how you look online and how you feel, and your strategy is solid and your systems are solid, then you're probably gonna feel really comfortable with how much you should be charging. And you should you you might feel comfortable even raising your prices. So I think those two people are the people who are like they've got a business, they got a solid thing going on, but there's like that yeah, piece that isn't it's not feeling complete. Yeah, no, that's so true. I know who I'm gonna be calling after this. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, it's one of those things, and I there's no judgment with me. It's like I I think I've talked about that in a post online. It's like I've had a few people in the past few weeks be like, oh, you're gonna judge my website, oh, you're gonna judge how I did things. No, I don't. Like, if things if you are now ready to make an investment, that means whatever you did prior worked. You just hit a ceiling and that's fine. That's when you pivot and move on. But there's no judging here. No, we do what we can with what we have. We don't know what we don't know. Yeah, and I feel like part of that is yeah, because I feel like every time sometimes clients are a little hesitant. I get that all the time where they're like, I'm embarrassed to admit this. And I'm like, no, that's why you're here. My job is to help solve these problems, and I feel like that's why we're here for to serve to help others what they don't see or what we whatever they need to need help or whatever. But but yeah, I love that you said that. You know, I just recently saw, heard this quote that is so applicable to this, and it's that the most powerful way to step into any situation is to step with the mindset of accepting that you don't know anything, because then you come in asking all the right questions. You don't jump in to try and fill that space, you jump in asking the right questions, and you there's only growth from there. So not a place to shame, a place of knowing that you don't know everything. I don't know everything, yeah. I don't know much about finance, I don't know much about investing. I ask questions and I want to learn about it. But with like to your point, you know, we're staying curious and learning, that's what gets us to grow and never stay stagnant, right? I love that. And what are other things that maybe I haven't touched on that you would like to share with those listening? Let's see. Oh, there's so much in my brain recently. I've been reading a book, I've been reading Start with Yourself by Magreed, and it has lit a fire under me on this whole education piece and learning and really setting women up to win. One topic that has been, I've been talking to people recently about this, and I think it's so important is I do believe that women's superpower is the way that we approach business. We all come from this deep why that we do things that is very rarely just money driven, right? Yeah, of course we want to make money, but it's very rarely money driven. But I have noticed recently that that has the pendulum has swung so much to the other side that whenever there are women meetups and conferences and all of that, we really lean towards the warm, fuzzy, emotional side of things. And I believe it's causing a disservice to women because we're not really hitting the topics and the things that they need to actually grow. So I would actually encourage anybody listening to this that next time you have a conversation with your female friends about business, skip the for just once, skip the like, oh, how is motherhood weighing on you or like all that kind of stuff and talk about like where are you banking? Do you recommend it? What's good about it? What have you done in your systems that really had pushed you forward? Like all of these things that can actually take somebody's business and level up. And don't be scared to share because when you approach these conversations from a place of abundance, that there is enough business for all of us out there. And if we all share the ways that we are stepping up and growing with other women, we can all rise so much higher together. So talk about it, talk about finances, talk about your systems, talk about operations, talk about all like hiring, like processes for hiring the right people, talk about sales, like all of these things that sometimes can feel yucky to share. Talk about it and let's all grow. That has been huge on my mind. And I have made a pact with myself that all the conversations that I have with women are gonna be very focused on what has worked for me. Here's what I would do, and not gatekeep, share, yes, and grow together. That has been a huge topic recently. Bravo. I love that. Oh my goodness. Definitely something has awoken. It has to be replicated, it has to be like ripple effect because I think it's so true. I don't know like where it comes from, but it's definitely a superpower. And I agree with you. I think take what Natalia just said and get in the rooms with other women, encourage one another, share the wins, the struggles, what works for you, what's not those should be the conversations and helping each other out. I have a list of all the people that I talk to, and I know what they do because in my mind, I'm always thinking if I'm talking to a client or somebody on the street, and they're like, hey, I need somebody else. My mind is like going through my list. Okay, who in my network do I have that is that I can refer to recommend. Ask the questions too, because I think there's a lot of things that are like, oh, it feels yucky to ask about certain things because it makes you seem oh, you just care about money and scaling and growing. And it's no, ask the questions. That's the goal. We already know you have a deeper why, we already know you're empathetic. Nobody's questioning you. Ask the questions. I actually have a meeting on Friday with somebody that I have a lead that requires a custom package that like I've never built that type of package before. So I don't know how to price it to them. And I reach out to someone that I know does packages like that. And I said, How do you price this? If you're not comfortable talking about money, that's fine. But like, how do you structure things? And she replied and was like, Let's hop on a meeting, I'll share you exactly how much I charge. And this is the type of you need to be doing and ask the questions. If people don't feel comfortable answering, they can tell you that. Yeah, but ask the questions, share things, and let's all grow together because men are doing it and we need to do it too. Yes, amen to that. I love that. I'm gonna make sure that this whole clip gets replayed over and over because this was like gold mine right here. It needs to be spread. Yeah, I feel like there's been a lot of I I've heard with women where we try to keep it safe and quiet, and like you said, we only share the other side, yeah. And it's no, we need to step it up. It's our time to start shining. This is a new era, new opportunities, and we gotta do this. So I love that. Go time, ladies. Go time, yeah. Thank you so much, Natalia. Is there anything else that you would want to share before we wrap up, but where people can find you? So I am both on Instagram and threads. I'm pretty active on there. It's Vixen Creative V-I-K-S-E-N. And I offer website packages, so up to five pages, up to seven pages, but I also do website audits. If you are not sure if you even need help, happy to look through, or if you people that aren't ready to fully invest on the redesign, but they want the guideline of what they should be fixing. That's something that I just recently started doing, and it has been really empowering for people to learn and do things themselves. And then above them all, I am a huge strategy junkie. So if anybody wants to talk data, analytics, marketing stuff, I'm also really open to that. I love yapping on the DMs. So just shoot me a message and I'm happy to get you a chat. Awesome. Thank you so much, Natalia, for being here today. Learning so much. Yeah. No, I've learned so much. No, you were on fire. You need to be on the stage next or more podcasts. Hey, you know, anybody that's that wants to know more about data, analytics, websites, and SEO, reach out to Natalia because she'll be an awesome uh guest to have. But thank you everyone for listening in to today's episode. If this resonated with you or you know of somebody that could benefit from it, please share it. And I am so thankful to have you all here listening. And until next time.