When Crisis Becomes Calling: Hasani Reyes on Radical Healing and Decolonizing Success

In this episode, I sit down with Hasani Reyes, an Intuitive Guide and Shamanic Energy Healer who helps people reconnect with their soul after a lifetime of living up to everyone else's expectations.

Hasani's story is powerful — at the peak of her corporate fashion career leading creative teams across the country, an unexpected health crisis forced her to completely reimagine her life. That traumatic moment became her calling, unlocking her intuitive gifts and reconnecting her to ancestral spiritual wisdom.

Now, Hasani blends ancient Indigenous and Afro-Caribbean rituals, Shamanic Energy Healing, and Holistic Mindset Coaching to guide clients back to themselves — helping them live in alignment with mind, body, and soul.

We talk about what the multi-billion dollar wellness industry is missing, why first-generation cycle breakers need a different approach to healing, the indigenous medicine we've forgotten, and what a healed world could actually look like.

This conversation is for anyone who's ever felt like success came at the cost of their soul.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Starting to see this resurgence of going back to the medicines from before. Sustainability is so much easier when you understand where you're coming from. We are the most powerful people. The same way that we have wounds, intergenerational wounds, we also have intergenerational resilience.

SPEAKER_04 0:22

You've been doing holistic healing for more than 10 years now. What was that journey for you coming into this multi-billion dollar industry?

SPEAKER_00 0:32

So for me, I was like, I'm not leaving corporate in the structures and the status quo in a system that really burned me out to do the same thing in my business.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

This moment that we're in, how do you perceive what's happening in the world right now? Like if we take, you know, the 10,000-foot view.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I said that this nation needed to be revealed to the world. This is the time that I believe that we need to go inward and we need to do the real the real work to dismantle and to deconstruct what were our beliefs. How would you define a sustainable artist? A sustainable artist has to be willing to create, to create opportunities, to create value even when the world is on fire.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

But I would first like to say is that you were one of the first people that I wanted to have on this show.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

And so many other people that I've mentioned, you too, were also like, oh my god, but you have to have Hasani on. So thank you for coming on. Thank you for coming on to the Sustainable Artist. We were just talking offline about the extractive nature of like the healing industry, right? And that's something that's came became very clear to me because as you know, last year I became a certified coach. And as I continue to get deeper into it and learning from other people, you know, not just you, but like other marketing gurus about this, like how do you monetize your business and all that stuff? It's very extractive. And that kind of turned me off a little bit. So like I started to say, let me like, let me start exploring how can I do this in a way that feels right for me. And you're nodding your head, and I want you to speak a little bit on that. And when because you you've been doing holistic healing for more than 10 years now, right? Um, and so what was that journey for you um coming into this multi-billion dollar industry?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I I have to say that for me, well, thank you for having me. And thank you for thinking of me at the beginning of your journey when it comes to sharing your message and bringing people together to share their message. So thank you for even thinking of me. Very honored, and you know how much I love you. So yeah. Um for me, I've always been a rebel in terms of following certain directions or following certain um status quo. Um, I think coming from the fashion world where I made made it to a level that was significant at that time with no social media, not a social media presence, not no social media following. And so I was able to climb to the to those spaces that I needed to through my work, through my experience, through my skills, and through my integrity. So for me, it was really word of mouth. I would get recruited by different fashion companies, and I would be like, oh my God, like um, I'm happy here. So I what I did was that at that time when I went through my healing journey 14 years ago, I experienced a massive burnout in corporate. And so I said to myself, if I'm gonna change careers and I'm going to be doing something that I already do, because I had large teams that I was leading in corporate, creative teams, which are the hardest people to lead. And so for me, it was like, okay, this is what I'm really good at. I'm really good with people. I remember when I was like in my office, in my private office, my office would be full of people, always asking for guidance. And so for me, it was like very natural to sort of transition into this work that I'm doing now. So when I went on my healing journey and I went back to school, I started working with different healers and went back to the root of our ancestral healing modalities. I said, oh my God, this is very the same as the corporations that I am working for. The structural part of it, the marketing, the how we are sharing our gifts to the world, and it has to be a structure, and you have to reach X amount of people, and you have to sell to people with, you know, building a social media presence. Or in the past it was through commercials, right? So commercials were the vehicle to kind of get your brand out. And so for me, I was like, I'm not leaving corporate and the structures and the status quo and in a in a system that really burned me out to do the same thing in my business. Right. So I honestly I rebelled against all of the marketing and all of the PR. And so it took me a much longer to get my business off the ground because I didn't do any of the gimmicks. I didn't, I didn't want to be part of it. And I was already in an industry that was full of excesses and lies, to be honest with you, because I was responsible for selling things to people that they didn't need, that stuff, you know. So, and I know about the manipulation in the fashion industry when it comes to like you need this outfit. No, you don't. Yeah, you know, and what do we do to get you to buy that? For me, I refused to have all of that into my business. So what I did was I said, I'm just gonna do it my way. I do not know what that looks like because it hasn't been done before. And so it took me a long time. It took him, took me about three years to even get the business off the ground. And I remember that my first clients were my old employees. They were the ones that gave me an opportunity because they were like, oh my God, I want to work with you because I really need your guidance because I'm not getting that now where I am. And they were my they were my first clients. And that was what got my business off the ground. They gave me the opportunity. And at the same time, I started working with different people, not knowing that you know it was all interconnected. And in 2020, um, I have been on the ground for three and a half years working with different people. And in 2020, we I got on a live with one of my clients. Um The Brujas of Brooklyn. The Brujas of Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

And shout out to them.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

I know they were they are the only ones that got me to do a live. And because I was still really on the ground, I did not want to do the whole gimmick thing or like just be on social media. I was like, no, I'm on the ground. And I remember Gisela, she's like, Madrina, she calls me Madrina. She goes, we gotta get you for people to see you, for people to know you. And I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. And they're like, one day we're gonna get you into the life. And it just happened that in 2020, um, when the whole, you know, George Floyd and and what was happening, you know, with the pandemic, it just, you know, we went on a live and we went viral.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

The the the three of us about that specific chat. And then the next day, my website was crashed. So crazy.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

I was I was one of the ones that crashed it because I saw that live too, and that's where I first saw you too. Oh my god. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

It is just it's just incredible because I have been doing the work for three and a half years.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

And it has been so underground, no one knew me. Um, a lot of my clients were from different parts of the United United States, and you know, I was doing online, you know, guidance and and healing work three and a half years prior to everybody being at home and doing Zoom. Right. So for me, when the pandemic happened, which it was really unfortunate for so many people, it was like, oh, now I don't feel so alone from working from home. Right. Because I was already doing that for three and a half years and then renting spaces to do my hands-and healing work. So for me, with the pandemic was the catalyst of just getting myself out there into the world of social media and being found out like for the work that I did. But I did a lot of that work before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

And it was, I mean, listen, I was on there. I remember the first, I because there were two parts to that conversation. The first live, I think I caught it right as it was happening. And I was like, oh my God. I just, and I don't remember the specific time. I think it was, I know it was about race, like being Latino and Black. Like, I think it was something to do around that. And it was just such a it was like an hour and a half or two hour live. Like it was wild. And I was like literally like glued to my phone, like watching this thing. And I was like, who is this woman? And then the next one was like about healing the mother wound, which we're gonna get into that about inter intergenerational or I'm sorry, first generation here he healing. Yes. I guess you could call it intergenerational healing too.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Um, but this is to your point earlier about moving with integrity and at your pace and not being this like marketing machine sales-y, even though this vehicle like elevated you to this like new plane, right? When I reached out to you, I remember I reached out to you, you probably don't remember this because yeah, there were part, there was an influx of people at the time, but you and I spoke and I was like, oh my God, I so resonate with you. At the time, I was like, I, you know, I don't know if I can invest in myself in this way right now. But you stayed in my head a year later, you know, I was like, okay, I I need to, this is one whole year later. Like you were like, okay, whenever you're ready, you know, I'll be here the end. Like, I wish you, you know, like more healing or whatever. Like you didn't say that, but like it was something like it felt like there was a detachment. There wasn't like a pressure, right? And um then a year later, I was like, okay, I wanna, I know I want to get therapy. And I was like, man, like I wish that, you know, because therapy, you get paid through insurance. Yeah. And I was like, but it was like, and I I would I would like interview with different therapists or whatever, and no one resonated with me. Like I really couldn't feel, I didn't feel connected to these people. And you just kept coming back into my mind. And I was like, but I felt really good with Hasani. I felt really good with Hasani, you know, and because this practice is so special and different, this is not something that unfortunately our insurance systems don't pay for these types of services, which is wild, you know. Like it's designed that way. It's it, we can talk about that too. Um, but yeah, I was like, you know what, I'd rather invest in myself with someone that I feel really good and grounded with. And it was probably one of the best investments that I have ever made in my life.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

Truly. Like I still use lessons from our work together, you know, I still think about the things we we, you know, we discuss. I I I know that it set me into this new place. And one of those lessons truly also being about what success means and redefining it, which is what I want this show to do, is really what does it mean to be sustainable? Or, you know, and when I say sustainable, I think people think about it in a bad way, like, oh, you're just kind of like, but no, it's like, it's like almost like what's the difference between being happy and just living with joy? You know what I mean? It's like you're not gonna be happy all of the time, but you could have a baseline of just like joy. Yes, you know, and um I think that's what I strive to make this show about. It's like, what's your baseline of where you feel joy in sustaining as an artist, which is every human being, right? Um, and I think you were the first person that started to teach me how to do that. Um, and I'll tell you how, you know, in a little bit, but I don't know, any thoughts on that? I think I threw a lot of things at you right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

No, that's okay. I well, thank you also for taking your time and vet and interview people. Yeah. Um, I don't pressure anyone to work with me. I always provide a conversation, a consultation for the person to connect with me and see how they feel. Sometimes you connect with a person, you don't like the way they sound. You don't like the their cadence, you don't like the way that they feel energetically. They might be the most skilled person, the most experienced person, the best in the world, and they might not be your person to be able to support you through your healing journey.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

So I think that that is probably what's resonated with you, which is has been my way of sustaining my integrity, right? Not pushing anyone to do any type of inner and healer healing work that they're not ready for. Whether through, you know, they're not ready to invest, they're not ready to put in the time and the commitment for that. So for me, I do not have any control of when a client is going to say, I'm ready to work with you. What I can control is how do I connect with that person and how do I serve that person powerfully through that connection. And then I always encourage people to go and try other people, talk to other people, see if other people feel more connected to you. And even like our consultation, I don't even talk about financial investment in that conversation. No, you don't. I don't talk about it. That's not what the conversation is about. It's about how do we move forward and whether my practice, my approach, and who I am, and our connection can serve you. And so that is the decision that is not based on what I do, but it's you, right? You the one that's deciding on that. So thank you for taking a year. I have had people that I did consultations for, you know, three years later. They're like, oh my God, I never forgot about our conversation. Our conversation changed the course of my life. And I waited to have, you know, the financial um stability to be able to work with you because I wanted to give you your flowers and invest in you because you changed the course of my life in that one conversation. So that thank you for that. So that's also part of my approach to be very different because I do a 30-minute consultation and then I spend up to an hour and 20 minutes with a person. Yeah. Because it's not about the time, it's about the connection. And I did not, I did not want my business to be transactional, yeah, which is what the mental health industrial complex and the medical system is in this country.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

And so I did not want to collude or uphold those systems within my business because, like I said, I do not want my business to run like a corporation. Yeah, that is not what I aspire to do because I already worked in corporate for many, many years, half of my entire career, and that system burned me to the ground. So I'm not going to run my business and my practice the same way a corporation does. Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Yeah. And I mean, there's still, I'm sure there's still this little push and pull, right? Because you do want people to get the medicine, as you say. You know what I mean? Like people need the medicine. Yes. You know, that live elevated you, your visibility.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

You know, where I was able to see you, you know, where so many others were able to access you through that.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

You know. So what do you think that balance is, or as you're finding it now? Like, I know it's a part, it's a process and a journey, right? But tell me a little bit about that process for you right now, because I think if we can show people how to kind of operate in this integrity, I think we'd be so much better off, you know. And so much of what you're saying now is counterculture. It's so counterculture. But I think right now what people are yearning for are new ways to live and operate and sustain. So, what what's that look like for you now?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

You said the key word is sustainability, right? How do I sustain these values of mine of organic reach, um, referrals, and some public um exposure, right? Social media is a vehicle that has been misused and abused. And so for me, the balance lies on what you can sustain, right? I'm not a content creator, so I cannot sustain a presence on social media as a content creator because that's not what my business is, right? So I can create content about what I do because what I do is so sacred for me that my work behind the scenes when I'm when I am connecting with a client or uh I am a witness of a transformation. I'm like, if the world can see this, like I'm like, oh my God, I'm getting goosebumps right now, and I always like to honor when that happens. It's an affirmation. But it's almost like I want, I'm like, if the world can see this, I I would love more people to experience this. But that is not my responsibility, right? I cannot be the one saying, I want this person to experience that, and I want this person to experience that because I don't know what people need. So what I always say in terms of what I can sustain within my business, so then I can define success within my business, right? So the way I I this um I define success within my healing practice is how can I create and be a witness of healing and change and transformation? And how do I serve people so powerfully that they're going to be my marketing? They're gonna do my marketing, right? It's very different than you hiring a marketing person. Because the person that is marketing my business is a recipient of that experience. Of the services. So they are the ones. I'm getting goosebumps again. So I just want to honor that.

unknown 20:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

And so for me, they are the ones doing the work on my behalf because they're the ones that are embodying the healing within their families. And so I have an entire family that I families that I take care of, that I guide. People send me their parents, their husbands, their siblings. And to me, well, I had one client, she was like, um, she was like, are you gonna heal my whole family? Is that what's gonna happen? I'm like, they're gonna heal themselves. But that goes to tell you that my sustainability relies on me serving powerfully, one person at a time, and that person is going to show up differently. And that person is going to show up in a way that their families and their circle of concern is gonna get curious about what's happening to them. Like, hmm, I see you different. What is happening here? I want some of that. And that's when they're like, you need to go see this woman. Yeah, I cannot explain to you what she does, but you need to go see her. And so that creates this like domino effect, and that has been what I can sustain.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

That's beautiful, that's powerful because that's what it is ultimately. You know, that's at the core of it, it's people sharing your information because they felt transformed by you. That's what you want. So I, you know, you mentioned that people have referred you to their family members. Your practice specifically. Focuses on first generation people breaking generational trauma. Or can you speak a little bit more about why you chose that particular group of people?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Because I chose myself. I chose to heal myself. And I am that. I am a first-generational psycho breaker in my family that reached a level of success that was not afforded to women that look like me in the 90s, in the 2000s. You know, that not at that time, there was no social media shining the light on me or Latinos and Latina women that look like me with my hair, because I always wear my hair natural, were not getting opportunities. You know, there was like a very small amount of creatives in in Washington Heights. You know, our my neighborhood in at that time was plagued with a lot of drugs and and a lot of um police brutality. And so we were like, you know, I graduated in the 90s. We were like creative kids in the 90s. My husband, you know, went to film, and I went to art school, and I ended up in fashion. My husband ended up on television, and all of my friends of that era that were artists ended up doing something significant. You know, and so for me, I reached a level that I never could have imagined reaching in the fashion industry through visual merchandising and um window and store design and all of that. So for me, it was like, wow, this is this is incredible. However, I was not well. I looked amazing on paper. My resume was incredible. I had designers and uh brands that anybody could have just died to work for them. And behind the scenes, I was dying. I was very disconnected through my own spiritual life, my own soul's desire. It was very transactional working in that industry. And so, as a first generation, uh generation Latina, I was not born here. I was born in the Dominican Republic. I had to carry this really big responsibility to make it. You know, you know, in our culture, it's like go to school, get an education, and then get the job and stay in the job whether you like it or not, because you have to be grateful for having a job. Right. And so for me, it was like, oh my God, I'm so grateful to have this opportunity in this job. But then why am I not feeling successful? Why am I not feeling happy? I, you know, literally made my first 100K in the early 2000s. Like that's not like a thing, you know. So, first one in my family to make a certain salary that no one has ever made in my family, and then also first one in my family to reach a certain level in corporate, where I was navigating all these spaces that no one in my family have not was navigating. Right. So there was nothing, there was no blueprint for me, there was no map. So I burned myself to the ground trying to make it, yeah, trying to succeed in a system that was not designed for me to succeed. And so there was no one in my family that could say, Hassani, look out for this, right? And in corporate, you have mentors, but those mentors usually come with the corporation that you're in, and sometimes it's for their best interest because they want to be connected with you, they want to get you to be at a certain place to make themselves look good. So I didn't have a me back then. So what I decided to do was like, okay, so what kind of training and skills do I need to develop in order for me to help people like me that are first one in their families to be able to reach a certain level of traditional success.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

But they have absolutely no idea what are the wounds, the intergenerational wounds that we carry as you know, migrants from people that places that have been colonized, that racism and colorism and all the isms exist.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

And then also the forced migration. And so for me, it was like, oh my God, this is it, intergenerational healing, because we need to be able to heal our intergenerational wounds. I don't call it trauma anymore, because the more I educate myself about the mental health industrial complex, trauma is such a triggering word because the same systems that created the trauma colonization, forced migration, economic disruption cannot be the same systems that are going to heal us.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Yeah. So when you don't say trauma, so explain to me a little bit more then. So what is kind of using wounds versus trauma do now from that point of view?

SPEAKER_00 27:37

So for me, the way that I am using words, because you know words are powerful, is that we are not traumatized people. We're not. Because trauma just uh informs you that somebody else caused that for you, right? And in some ways, there was there is there is traumatic experiences that happen to us, but who's creating that trauma? Who's creating those experiences, right? And what happens when those traumatic experiences land on us? It creates wounds, right? There's a wounds that are inside our hearts and our bodies and our mind and our spirit. And those wounds are passed on through generations, right? And so for me, the system created the trauma that the trauma created the wounds that we carry. So for me, I'm interested in helping and guiding people recognize where where's the wound, the intergenerational wounds that are existing in their families. And then how do we repair and mend and heal those wounds, right?

unknown 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Because we need to know what the wounds are and what has been passed on to us. And how do those wounds were created, you know, and why? And so for me, I want to be part of the solution within our cultural um significance to be able to tell people hey, your wounds are here, they're in your body, they're in your mind, but we can repair them, like we can heal them.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

So then we can be much more powerful than the system is.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

Yeah. And I think you also like to highlight the beautiful things that our ancestors passed down to us, that our parents passed down to, you know, that there's a lot of power. And this is where your medicine comes in, indigenous medicine. And I mean, that I really want to dig into because I think this is what's happening right now is that we're starting to see this resurgence, right, of going back to how, you know, the medicines from before, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

And you've, I mean, you've gone to the Amazon, like you've gone deep. You've done the the the ayahuasca things. I mean, I can say this, right? Yes. Of course. So, like, you've done all sorts of these shamanistic healing modalities using this indigenous medicine. Why is it important for us to tap back into that?

SPEAKER_00 30:19

I want to bring it back to the topic at hand is sustainability, right? And I think that sustainability is so much easier when you understand where you're coming from. And what are the principles and the values that you carry through your ancestors? So, yes, the same way that we have wounds, intergenerational wounds, we also have intergenerational resilience. And our ancestors, because they were so, there was so much trauma inflicted on them through colonization, forced migration, you know, dictatorship, um, racism, and all of the isms. And I think that because of that, I find that our people, Afro-indigenous people, and specifically in the United States, people that come from, you know, forced migration or an enslaved ancestry, we are the most powerful people. No offense to anyone else. I'm just saying that people that come from such wounded backgrounds and survival, we tend to have more coping mechanisms. And it's the most amazing thing. I'm getting goosebumps again. And the most amazing thing about it is that our ancestors were just as they were equally wounded, yes, they were also equally resilient. And sustained that resilience for 500 years in terms of like through music, through the elements, through remedios, through dancing and singing, and pass on this beautiful. Um, so it was just like I am not doing anything different than what our ancestors are doing. Right. And in and it is about recognizing the wounds and then utilizing the elements of earth, you know, fire, air, water, and and just earth, and just utilizing that as a way to heal ourselves and to be resilient. And so my medicine is very rooted in those principles. And that's why I work very closely with Afro-indigenous um medicine and cosmologies, because they predate colonization and they're still here. They have not left us. You find them in in the Amazon, you find them in the in the Caribbean, you find them here in this country through the Native Americans, you find them in North America. We're still here.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

That's crazy. I don't think about that like that. Like these indigenous practices and indigenous peoples, through it all, through it all, are literally still here. That's like the strongest example of resilience.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

That's what I'm saying. That's still the most powerful example of what healing looks like. And and what I'm doing different than what our ancestors had to put up through is that they did it without not knowing that they were doing it. They did it because they were surviving. But that is not our story anymore. Right? So, what I am trying to remind a lot of my clients, and I work mainly with therapists, social workers, licensed um clinical social workers, professors, teachers, um, business owners, first generation people, you know, Asian, indigenous, African American, black, that are doing this thing in their families. That are it's like, what, you're a therapist? And and it's like, what are you, what what kind of work is that? You know, or like you're a professor, like you are you gonna make any money with that? Like, are you a teacher? Why are you gonna go into teaching? So these are people that are breaking the cycle of how our ancestors had to put up to be able to survive. These are these are individuals that are professionals that have gone through incredible academic achievements. You know, I work with a lot of PhD holders, mainly women. And some of them are like, oh my God, how do I get out of that surviving the system of academia or corporate? And then how do I begin to thrive?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

So then I can no longer be in survival mode. And so for me, it's like I'm here to guide them and to get them back to come back home to themselves and to the medicine that already exists that have not been forgotten. But the system has told us that it's dark magic, that is not of God. But if God invented everything and created everything, how can flowers, the ocean, fire, air, the earth is dark magic? How do you work with these beautiful elements to help you connect to your spiritual mind, body, and spirit? How can that not be of God?

SPEAKER_04 35:48

Right. It's so crazy that that's what some people think. Because I just I mean, it's it's it's nature, right? Which we've been so disconnected from. So that's also very strategic, right? Like to say this is dark because we have to demonize it or stigmatize it and say you you must remain disconnected. If you know your own power, well, then you're too powerful.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

To be a sheep in the system. Yes, exactly that. And I think that a lot of us bought into that.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

We did unconsciously. I'm not saying that we were conscious about it. And we bought into the system that told us these remedies, these things that are existing in your family, they need to be kept in the closet. They're only limited to your family.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

If you get that out, then you're you're being outcast, or you have to explain your medicine. And that's one thing I don't. I don't, I don't try to justify my medicine. I don't justify the work I do with clients. My work is rooted on spirit, body, mind, and soul work. Because that's what we are. We are a whole human.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

And so going back to you what you said at the beginning, it's like you talked about the the mental health industrial complex and what they have done differently and what is the disconnection, is because a lot of the research in the mental health industrial complex have been done on non-black and people of color. So a lot of the diagnosis, and you said something at the beginning of this conversation when it comes to like therapy, and so in order for you to get therapy and your insurance to pay for therapy sessions, you have to be diagnosed with something. As much as you don't realize it, the way that the insurance companies, I think, pay a lot of these mental health practitioners is because they have to be a diagnosis.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

And I don't think that we are need to be diagnosed for things of the spirit. I don't think we need to be diagnosed for ancestral, intergenerational wounds and cultural challenges that we have, because that's not part of the mental health industrial complex. That we were not taking into consideration when those diagnoses were um being put in that book that it's being utilized by mental health practitioners. And I'm not going to minimize, and I want to make sure that this is in this conversation. There are people that suffer from severe mental health. But that is a small percentage of the population. The rest of us, we need a much more holistic approach to how we deal with self-worth, with feeling um doubtful, from feeling inadequate, from having, you know, from being insecure. Because these systems that I talk about, they created this problem. They created this like separation of us, like, oh, you don't have money, you're not a celebrity, you don't have significance, or you're not productive enough. You're not productive enough. So I think that for me is about how do we recognize that the system that is supposed to help us mentally has disconnected us from our b from our bodies. And the body knows first what the mind takes time to catch up. So my work is very rooted on oh, how is that showing up in the body? And also like recognizing where my body is affirming something.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

I have had a couple of goosebumps. And so for me, that is the medicine of our ancestors of like how do we take care of our bodies and how do we take care of our mind, our spirit, and our soul, and then how do we bring it all together as a way forward? Yeah, not as a diagnosis. And so for me, the people that need to get diagnosed with a really difficult mental health, they need to. And they need to get the proper uh treatment for it, but they're not getting it. They're not getting it. No one is getting the proper treatment because of how the mental health industrial complex treats mental health and that disease. And I and I, because I work with so many therapists and social workers, I hear what they struggle with. I hear how they don't connect with the system. They know that they can work at a deeper level with their clients because of the cultural challenges, because of, you know, forced migration, because of, you know, coming from, you know, enslaved ancestors. There's so much there that the mental health industrial complex does not really take into consideration for most people that look for that type of healing.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

Yeah, I agree. I I I completely agree. And it's why it's so incredible the work that you that you do. Um, because we need we need new outlets, right? So I wanna I wanna shift gears. It's all the same, but I'm gonna shift gears just a little bit because I wanna talk about the moment that we're in, right? I mean, bring it. Let's do it. Especially for I think people that are working in mental health spaces and coaching spaces and things, you know, I can imagine that it's been even overwhelming for them, you know. Um not I can imagine, I know, I know. And so, but I guess this moment that we're in, how do you perceive what's happening in the world right now? Like if we take, you know, the 10,000-foot view, right? And in you having the experience that you do, what do you think is happening on our planet right now from your perspective, right? Because I have some takes on this. But but just like, what do you think is happening and what do you think, where do you think we're headed? What do you think this moment is calling us to do?

SPEAKER_00 42:40

I I think we're going through a massive transition. Um, you know, you you you did my shadow work um workshop. Um so you know how much I work with the shadows not only of a person but also of a nation. And so I said that this nation needed to be revealed to the world. And the world is interconnected now. You know, back in the days when we had wars, or we were not exposed to the amount of information and visuals of what every single thing that is happening in the world.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

So not only are we not capable as humans yet to handle this level of information and visuals of war in most parts of the of the world, we're not equipped. We do not have the mental and emotional and spiritual capacity to witness every single thing that is happening at every moment, every time. And so that's creating an incredible fragmentation within the people that are exposed to what is happening around the world. So that's one part of it. The second part of it is that. Everything is on a spiral. And I call it that. You have to come back to the same pit stop of that thing that you need to reveal so then you can heal it.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

This country needed to reveal, this country's gonna be 250 years old. And so it's a quarter, it's it's it's the right time for this country to reveal itself for what it really is. Because American exceptionalism has been a propaganda that a lot of the Western countries right now that are suffering for what's happening with you know this administration, they benefited from that for hundreds of years. And so now that the shadows of this nation and the shadow of many countries around the world are coming up, people are having a very difficult time understanding what is really happening politically, energetically, um, out of the shadow, at the shadow level, because everything is coming at us. It's coming at us and it's being revealed to us. And this amount of information and revelation is very difficult for us to manage as humans.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

And so this level of information is also being reflected as how we are receiving it and how are we engaging in it. And what are we giving attention and intention? Because do we have the capacity to give attention and intention to every single thing that is happening around the world?

SPEAKER_04 45:50

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Right. So think about the amount of healing work that you have to do on yourself to be able to have the capacity to understand all of the darkness that's coming out. So energetically, I always say to all of my clients who are very sensitive to the energies of, you know, the nation or maybe global energy, it's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that you are going through this because this is really affecting you at a deeper level. Because we are being bombarded with darkness, with the shadows of this nation, the shadows of many countries in the world, and we are going through a massive transformation.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

So I call it the destruction part of the life cycle, which is you know, creation, maintenance, destruction, and then rebirth.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

And in order for us to be able to be a better nation, a better world, we have to go through a destructive period.

SPEAKER_04 46:50

Yeah. I call it the great transition.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

And how do we arm ourselves for this great transition? I mean, maybe we we, you know, now that we saw that 10,000-foot view, what are you seeing, what are you seeing amongst your clients, right? What is it that you're hearing mostly now that's happening? Because I know from my friends, you know, and clients as well, I hear all kinds of it, I'm hearing the same script, basically. The, oh, you know, there's an exhaustion. There's, but what are you, what is the common theme right now amongst the people that you work with and who engage with you on social media? Like, what's the message that you're that you're getting from people?

SPEAKER_00 47:32

So I told you that a lot of my clients are therapists, social workers, professors, teachers. Um last year, some of my clients that work for the federal government lost their jobs. Yeah. You know, we were talking about clients that were part of certain um departments, you know, immigration and they lost their jobs. Um I had a lot of clients where their nonprofit organizations were pretty much stripped from the fund, the federal funding.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

And we're talking about clients that were leading nonprofit organizations that were working with marginalized groups and communities, you know, from Georgia, you know, to Pennsylvania, Maryland, um, West Coast. A lot of those clients in nonprofit organizations lost their funding. So they were pretty directly impacted in the people that they served. Um, I had a couple of professors that have been uh have received death threats because they're working in universities where the university have not provided support for them when it came to the whole conflict in the Middle East. And they have been very vocal about it. So they have felt the wrath of this, this, you know, this administration. And then I have had clients that have been the recipient of all of this stuff. So I'm having clients that are like impacted at the federal level and clients that are impacted at their own nonprofit and their own work, serving communities and marginalized communities. And then I have clients that have been the recipient of what is happening, you know, in this country. So I'm looking at it. I have clients from all over, all levels of experiences based on what the core situation that is happening here. So for me, I'm looking at it from like, holy moly. This is not only affecting people what they're seeing on social media that might not be affected because of the job that they do. This is affecting people that are doing incredible community work, that their funding has been completely destroyed, and now they're like, what do we do? This is the level of conversations that I'm having. And so for me, this is why I think it's very serious, and where my work has been so effective, because one of the things that I always say to clients right now is like we need to look at ourselves now, right? And then decide how do we move forward, right? Because the systems that we created in the past, or like the way that we were leading ourselves, it's no longer working.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

So there's a there is a rebirth right now in a lot of my clients because they're like, okay, I have to allow myself to think differently, right? To see the world differently. Because a lot of my clients are deconstructing and they're like unraveling the stuff that they believed.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

That's what it is. It's like right now, so many, there's so many things happening at once, but the main thing, it's like everything you thought to be true, everything you've been striving for your whole life, right, is really a facade. It's really kind of you were kind of paying back into your oppression. Like you, you know, like it's like, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

I mean, the conversations that I'm having with my clients is like, okay, where were you colluding and upholding some of those systems? You know, that's the conversations that I'm having. Yeah. And very important conversations. And, you know, I think it's important that we also understand our our contribution.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Yeah.

unknown 51:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

And what we believed.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

And take accountability and responsibility for understanding that we were also part of colluding with the systems that are now have to be deconstructed. And we have to kind of accept that what we used to think was true is no longer true.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

And then now we have to start creating a new paradigm. Like we need to start creating a new narrative and a story that is going to be aligned with who we are and how we see the world.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

So then we don't get destroyed.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Yeah, yeah. I mean, aside from working with you, honestly, what is what do you tell the people listening that are there's somebody out there that's like, I'm overwhelmed. You know, I feel like I can't, I don't know which direction to go in. You know, I want to create this, but you know, this is part of the same old system, you know, that was creating this problem. You know, the the earth really feels like it's kind of like shaking beneath us right now, like breaking open, right? Yeah. Like what tool or what thing, what mentality should people take on right now during this time to overcome it, right? Or to stay, you know, alive in it, like to say, you know, to stay grounded and move forward in it, you know?

SPEAKER_00 53:23

I truly believe that this is the best time for your personal authority. Say more. And I think this is the best time right now when everything has been revealed to us, and in this chaos and this overwhelming feeling, is asking ourselves the question: Who have we been putting to power? Who have we pedestalized? And who have we believed was telling the truth or guiding us, right? And this is the time that I believe that we need to go inward and we need to do the real the real work to dismantle and to deconstruct what were our beliefs, and to take back our power, to take back our personal authority, and to put ourselves in a pedestal. Because I always say to my clients, they can take you out of that federal job, they can take your license away. The system can do this, right? But they cannot take your spirit. They cannot take your spirit because they couldn't take the spirit of our ancestors.

unknown 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

That's why they're still here. That's why me and you are here. You know, someone on a transatlantic ship, when they were bringing these people, our ancestors from Africa, they had to survive for me and you to be here. Right. And what they survived for you and I to exist was way more horrible and bigger than us having to survive having a nice apartment and a nice house and beautiful clothes and an opportunity to invest in ourselves. So what I say to my clients is, what are you doing to secure your spirit? What are you doing to secure your self and your personal authority and your power so they cannot take this away from you? They can take your jobs, they can take everything, but they cannot take away your resilience. And if you give in so much to the overwhelm, the whelming experience, then you're giving in to what they want. Right. To keep us overwhelmed, disempowered, and uh blind.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

And so for I what I say to anyone that's listening, uh please pay attention to what you're giving attention to. And please pay attention to how your body feels when you see what you're paying attention to. And pay attention to your soul. What is your soul asking you to do? What is your soul asking you to lead with?

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

And then the last thing is is social media is taking more than what it's giving you, then you need to reassess your relationship with it. And I always say to people, anything that is taking more than what it's giving you, it's gonna cause pain and suffering.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

So right now we need to decide what are the things that we're doing that is taking more than what it's giving us, and then decide if we want to still give it a lot of attention and intention.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

Yeah. Yeah. And I want to clarify that this doesn't mean to not be aware of what's happening in the world because you're very political too. And you You know our DMs. You know, yes, yes, you're very political and you are clear about being, you know, uh carrying out your civic duties and all of these things, right? So I guess what is the balance for you in terms of being aware of the news, doing your due diligence as a as a citizen of this country and of the world, right? Um, and keeping your peace, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:30

And and and kind of going inward. Yeah, I'm gonna bring it back to the topic of this conversation, sustainability. What are you able to sustain? Right? What are you able to sustain? You know, I am very informed, but I'm very specific about how I get informed, right? I am very involved politically. I'm a political junkie. That's like my side, like soul thing. And I read certain sp specific, you know, news uh uh outlets that I believe that are very uh objective. Um I'm very involved in my community. I'm more of a micro, like I want to know what's happening in my community. Are people voting? You know, who's my councilman? Like who can I go to and complain? You know, when I call certain uh politicians, what do I demand from them, right? Understanding my civic duties that I need to understand and be informed what's happening for for me, I want to be informed at this level, but I also want to be informed at this level.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

Yeah, high and low, just for those listening.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

And then what what level of information and intake can I sustain?

SPEAKER_02 58:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Because I can't, I can't, I can't give attention to every single thing that's happening in the world. Yeah, I don't have the capacity.

SPEAKER_04 58:56

Or feel guilty for that for that matter, because I think sometimes it's like, well, no one's talking about what's happening over here. And I'm like, well, sometimes people aren't talking about what's happening in certain places because literally they are not, they don't have the capacity to take on more fights because we feel like it's a futile thing. It's not that we're not aware, it's more like can't we we can't even process it, you know, in our bodies.

SPEAKER_00 59:20

So I also think that that is a very binary way of thinking when people say that. Like, but if you focus on this, why are you not focusing on this? Yeah, and I don't lead with binary thinking. I'm more nuanced when it comes to like what do I pay attention to? Because look, I'm not a political scientist, right? They are the experts. And I think that one of the reasons why everybody feels that they need to be aware about everything is because we have lost our ability to trust the experts. Everybody's an expert right now. Everybody talks about and has an opinion about every single thing that is happening around the world. And to be honest with you, we don't know the whole story unless you're an expert on it. And so I don't like to give my opinion about every single topic that comes up on social media when it comes to politics or you know, war or anything like that. Because, first of all, I don't have the capacity to give it that much attention and intention. And also, I'm not the expert.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Right? So I cannot give my opinion because it's an opinion, not facts. So for me, when I'm gonna talk about a topic, I want to feel confident that it's something that I am very passionate about and something that I am very well read and well researched in a very objective way, rather than seeking confirmation bias for my own, you know, reality. So I so for me, when I hear people say that, well, you're not focusing on this, why you're not talking about this, I'm like, because I'm focusing on something else that is really important to me. And I don't have to explain to you why this is important to me and why this is getting all of my attention, because I'm not going by what people expect me to focus on. I have to be responsible for what I give attention to so then I can keep some type of balance and sustain my work and sustain my life and sustain my joy and and sustain also my grief.

unknown 1:01:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

I don't want to give, I don't want to be on the floor all the time. Who does that serve?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:41

Thank you for that. Um, we're winding down here, so just a couple more um short questions. Um you kind of answered this already, but uh how would you define a sustainable artist? I ask that to every guest.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

I think sustainability, a sustainable artist has to be willing to create, to create opportunities, to create value even when the world is on fire. I think that yeah, yeah, you know, a sustainable artist is a person that is able to sustain a level of spirit, a level of self-awareness to be able to continue to lead and add value to the world, whether it is through whatever form of creativity, whether that is through your self-expression or how you show up in the world and how do you serve, how do you treat people, you know, when you see them on the streets, and how do you care for the world and people when nobody's watching?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

That's kind of like what I believe is what can sustain an artist. Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:03

And last question, if you could get our listeners and our viewers imagining a new world, the new world that we're building, that we're, you know, we've we're healing, we're healing from the old one. We're, as we said, transitioning into this new one. What does that world look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

That world looks like we start in our backyard. We plant the seeds in a garden, in our own backyard. And when I talk about our own backyard, is where do we come from? What is our family and it what do we want? To think about us and the significance that we brought to them. And so for me, it's about planting the seeds of a garden that you might not be able to reap the benefits of it, but that the people that are gonna come after you are gonna do so. So it's about creating impact and significance, even if you don't get to see it, even if you don't get to experience it. Because it's not about us, it's bigger than us. It is if we want to make a better world, it starts really with us, one person at a time, making better choices and making better decisions and planting the seeds of the garden, so then the future generation can really rip the benefit of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:37

I love that. Thank you. Thank you so much for being on.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

You know, I love you so much, and I'm always singing your praises. So I'm excited to get this one out.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

Thank you so much for having me. And I'm sorry that I didn't realize you invited me on text. So but I'm here because when what's meant to be, it will be no matter what. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:01

I I believe that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:03

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

Thank you for doing this, and thank you for using your self expression and your creativity to bring forward these conversations. Thank you. You're a badass. Oh, psychobreaker.