The Realest Conversation About Art, Money, and Politics — With Fabrizio Copano

Fabrizio Copano is one of the most celebrated comedians in Latin America — the first South American comic to shoot an original Netflix special — and tours globally, selling out across the U.S., Latin America, and Europe. He's appeared on The Late Late Show with James Corden, performed on CBS' The Talk, and is a proud paid regular at the world-famous Comedy Cellar. Fabrizio is currently developing a television series with Trevor Noah’s Day Zero Productions. His debut English-language special From the Future, released by 800 Pound Gorilla, is now streaming on YouTube.

In this episode, Fabrizio gets real about what the artist's lifestyle actually looks like up close — what's sustainable and what isn't — shares his personal experience with his friend and former Chilean president Gabriel Boric and what socialism looks like from the inside, and gives his unfiltered takes on politics and comedy across the U.S. and Latin America.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

You know what I have to be be watch watch out for? I've noticed in these interviews. Mm-hmm. I'm so Dominican. I why why is that bad? Because I scream into the microphone. And then it's compared to what like the guest is doing.

SPEAKER_05 0:14

Oh well, he had headphones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

He's But he noticed it. If you're gonna scream, just scream. No, I'll be like, and so I Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 0:25

That's the problem. It's not it's not it's not like constantly screaming.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

It's just like sir is it's when I get excited. And then or like when I'm very be very emphatic about a point.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

Oh great.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

That's even that much more every time you go excited.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Yeah, is that the way to do it, no? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Fabricio Copano, welcome to the Sustainable Artist.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

You see, you did it though, right there.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Yeah. Yeah, but I I lowered my voice. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

But he's the NPR voice.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

May the Dominican in me be still.

SPEAKER_05 0:57

But he can do it. He can do it. You may hear enough time to be like a kind of white. If you want to. If I wanted to for a couple minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Yeah. Well, listen, there were some people that I thought immediately when I started this, I was like, oh, I definitely want to have this. So you're also one of those people because specifically because I feel like you've been able to have a long-lasting career, successful career, exciting career. And you just are a personality that goes, goes, goes. Like I feel like, I feel like you always find you're not a you you have a certain level of detachment from the outcome, right? So like so and maybe I, you know, I guess I want you to talk a little bit more about that. So you're you've created your success in Chile. You started at what age?

SPEAKER_05 1:48

Like 16.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Like 16. Yeah, okay. Um damn, that's nothing.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

Yeah. I mean, actually, if I go to specific, I will say 13, but I was like not professionally working. I was just helping my brother that was working for someone else. Yeah. But then I started like being on camera and doing stuff 16.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Okay. Wait, what was your brother doing?

SPEAKER_05 2:10

My brother's a journalist.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Okay. So you started there, and what were the kind of things you were doing at that age to like, and then what what was happening at 16 that you were like, now I'm officially entering this career.

SPEAKER_05 2:24

Well, uh before that, I have a blog. It was like that era of like having a blog spot. So I have my little blog, and I remember reading uh the this Woody Allen book. Um I think it was called Without Feathers. And uh it was all these little New York uh New Yorker pieces, they're really funny. And uh at that age I was like obsessed with Woody Allen, and William was obsessed with people of my age, so it kind of makes sense. Yeah, and uh he in the in it was whole about New York.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

That took me like literally five minutes to get it. Like I'm still waking up, clearly, because I was like, wait, it it processed so slowly in my head, and then I was like, Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Well, I'm glad that it's not that present in your brain that that that he's a weirdo.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Um, there's we with we have found worse ones, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:14

Uh but at the old friends, like the old BFF, and they're all ruling the world. Yeah, so uh it's specifically that during that period, uh I was just obsessed with like with Woody Allen and like New York, and he was a comedian in some certain movies, and I was like, okay, there's there's a life there, yeah. Um but once again, I was just helping my brother, he's three years older than me, and he was starting like working as a journalist in here and there and doing little pieces. And uh then what I think changed that when I was with I met two friends, who's still my best friends, is uh Pedro Rominot and Sergio Freire. Both are big comics in Chile now. But we started to like we met each other, it was like we fall in love and we're like, we're gonna start stand-up comedy here. Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Because it didn't exist, to be clear, it wasn't like there was a scene.

SPEAKER_05 4:00

I mean, there was one guy that everyone said is like the father of it. He called it Cafe Concert instead of stand-up comedy, is a guy called Coco Legrand. She was doing something very similar to stand-up comedy. Like, to be honest, it is stand-up comedy. But then there was not a scene. There was not many comics or and bars, and like you can't travel over the country and doing shows. It was none of that. And I think we are the ones who bring that up. Like, okay, you can be like not a character, you know, because you know, like in Latin America and in Spanish-speaking countries, it's mostly about like being a character.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Like slapstick comedy.

SPEAKER_05 4:33

Slapstick comedy, and always always about like poor people. It's always like the character is like toothless or they have a head injury, or they're drunk.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:44

And in this case, we're like, oh, this is we're using our names, this is our stories, and this is what we're gonna do. Yeah. And uh with those those two friends, we started in a bar in the second floor of a tango club, and from there things start getting bigger and bigger. We have we did a TV show, we made movies, we did everything you can do in in in those times, like 2006 to 2013.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

That's amazing that that was like when it really got started. But I would say I would argue it's kind of the same for all of Latin America, even like too in the film scene. Like, why do you think that is? The stand-up experience that we have in the US, like it's not like you have to build it up in other places.

SPEAKER_05 5:27

I think because of um, I mean, there's many reasons. I I think honestly, I only understand the Chilean version of this, and I think it's mostly because I think the shape of Chile, this is my theory. The shape of the country that is a very weird shape for a country, it's very thin, it's not normal. So we have a lot of mountains, you know, it's like a bunch of mountains, and you have the capital in the middle, and they have like a bunch of towns all over the place, and because of all these mountains, it's kind of hard to connect the country. So you think the only thing that connected the country at that time, before like the 90s and like during the dictatorship years, it was TV. It was the only thing that kind of like make this feel like one country. So everything was CV and comedians just performed for TV. They got on a show, they made a shitload of money, then they, I don't know, do a couple private gigs a year. They didn't need anything else. But when we show up, I think we wanted to create the like the cult the US culture of like bars and like you know, like doing a show in a tiny place for like this small crowd, kind of like building up an audience an audience and like building on an hour and having it. We kind of like copy that format, and uh that was great because now like I think we are the ones that kind of like um build a whole generation of people who spend money in Chilean culture going live. Used to be bands, like they do really well, but there was like two, and the rest they kind of like go for free and festivals and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Yeah, but now people are investing, like they will say, I'm gonna go on a night out to see a comedian, a stand-up comedian.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

And they can pay like 20 bucks and or 30 bucks for a comedian that is like from their own country, right? And that's new, yeah. So yeah, I think that was why it took so long. I think I think TV kind of like makes this kind of a safe space for comedians or artists of that era.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Okay. Well, so do you so now we you have like what dozens of Chilean comedians? Because for me, you're the one and only.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

No, no, no, no. There's there's many more.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

There's no others.

SPEAKER_05 7:31

I I mean I feel like the one and only, but to be to be uh correct, there's plenty. And uh also there's clubs all over the country now. Yeah, you can travel and there's bars in a lot of places. They will like, okay, we need to become a comedy club because they bring audiences in days that we have nothing going on. It's so cheap. You know, travel a comic and maybe a producer, it's two tickets instead of a band with like five people and they have to do sounds check and blah blah blah. Yes. So yeah, I I I I feel now you can travel at least with to 13 cities in and in you can live. I mean, many people who are not on TV or like did you explode it on social media, they have a very decent life doing comedy there. They're sustainable, and they are the sustainable artists. We said it. We said it, you know, it's like in this movie where you're like waiting for that moment and they look at the camera and they say the name of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

That's usually when it ends. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 8:31

Yeah. Credits roll.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Um, okay. Well, that's awesome. I mean, that's great for the economy. That's you know. Um, and I want I do want to get into your transition into the US, but before that, you know, when you and I were working together, because we were working together.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

We were working together, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Before I was part of your management team. And so um you had just come, like maybe what, like two years?

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Yeah, a couple years before.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

And that was like in 2021.

SPEAKER_05 9:04

For me, it's all a blur.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Uh well, whatever. No timeline needed.

SPEAKER_05 9:08

Yeah, I think will happen. Time is yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Yeah. In the last five to six years. So something happened. Um, but yeah, but anyways, but before that, or around that time, your friend was becoming the president.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

He just uh finished his I know, and now there's like a Trump version in there. We I mean should I take that back?

SPEAKER_05 9:30

No, no, no. Uh he wants to be. I think he he's part of like this. I mean, this is my this is my joke about it. I think Trump was very disappointed when he met this guy. Because for Trump, it's like, oh, there's another Latin American president that loved you, and he's like, oh, it's gonna be like wild like Millet or crazy like Bolsonaro, and then it is like this very boring, old conservative, kind of like George H. Bush kind of energy, you know, like nine kids, yeah, uh Catholic, ultra-catholic, right? I mean, just sex just to have kids, you know, kind of guy. So boring. Like that's not Trump energy, right? So he kind of like put himself in that pack of like crazy weirdos, yeah, but he's actually like another kind of crazy weir, like the hyper Catholic, yeah, you know, a church fanatic, right? You know, like for real, because Trump sometimes pretends to be like I love the church, right? But this guy is like really love the church, okay. He's a hardcore fan of Jesus Christ. He's the old school Republican exactly. Okay, okay, so that sense is different.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Okay, it's different. What happened with the the the last one?

SPEAKER_05 10:40

Oh, Gabriel Boric.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Because he was like our momdani, you know? Yeah, he was the socialist, yeah, he was the youngest ever win or run and win, I think it was.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Um, he it was like about the future, like progressive, all these things. And then of course, you know, I'm seeing it from the American news side, right?

SPEAKER_06 11:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Of like, you know, the dreams were too, it just was like it ended up being a flop, you know. But that's one version, probably New York Times version.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

But it's not, I mean, it's I don't think it's wrong. I think what happened is reality hits you, and at that point, everyone kind of pivot from okay, let's change the country, let's rewrite the constitution, and so it was like, no, you know what? Security. No one is thinking about the future. I just need safety because uh there was the first time there was like real gangs going to Chile. We we had gangs before, but like not like uh kind of like Mexican cartel vibe, mostly like Venezuelan cartels start moving to Chile, and everyone got like really scared. And he was, I think, smart enough to pivot and be like, okay, now let's just take care of this, you know? And also like communicate, like he was, I mean, his communication team was very shitty, and uh, I think there's many, many mistakes. Like he ended up like in his last speech saying, like, yeah, I I I got it wrong in this and this and this. But I think he kind of like uh started away. I mean, I'm sure, and this is not me, everyone said this. He's gonna be president again. He's I think he just turned 40. And you know, like being an ex-president give you a lot of chances to be president of the country again. You're kind of like always in the top-tier list, right? And actually, now that the new guy, this ultra-catholic guy, cast uh it's it's in power, his numbers started to coming back up, and people are like, oh, we kind of like this kid. So let's see, maybe like that dream is not there yet. You know, it's kind of like we have to learn a lot of things before really it improve people's life in a real way. Like there was a lot of learn the learning curve was very public and very kind of like how everything is now, yeah. Yeah, but in a presidency.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Do you guys do every two years or every four years?

SPEAKER_05 13:02

Four.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Every four. And but you do it like at the top, like your elections are at the top. Well, no, because he went in in February.

SPEAKER_05 13:10

He was in March. March 11th.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

I knew it was like top first. Q1.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

Q1. Let's call it Q1. It was in Q. You're still dividing the years in Q's?

SPEAKER_01 13:19

I don't know. Sometimes do people not do that anymore?

SPEAKER_05 13:23

I don't know. No, I'm not saying that it's not, but like it's like a business thing, you know?

SPEAKER_03 13:26

It's like But you got my point.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

Yeah, I got your point right away.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Do you think that the former president was just too idealistic?

SPEAKER_05 13:38

I think he was. Yeah. But also like um, I don't know. It's like this clearly uh it's clearly really hard to change things, and is by design. You know, like there's a whole system in place to make things kind of like be the same forever. And people are desperate for change. And yeah uh this is like I I think this Chile is like a tiny version of the same that you can replicate in the US or you can replicate in in every other country. That is like people are seeing their lives being very difficult and unsustainable, and at the same time, uh it's like we want something different, but like we really don't know how because we try every flavor of the menu and it's nothing's changed. So I feel like we get into that moment that maybe at some point someone with like, I don't know, a socialist uh point of view can accomplish stuff just because of like the pressure of the system. So maybe that's the only hope that we'll see something change, but uh it's not gonna be easy. I mean, that's why I think be being idealistic is is just not enough. You have to know how to make this work.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

I know that you are a Mamdani fan only because you like my Mandane post.

SPEAKER_05 14:55

Exactly, exactly. And and whose doesn't, you know, like there even if you don't like the guy, like his social media team just like Yeah, chef's kiss. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

But I think or I'll ask you this: do you think do you have hope in him specifically?

SPEAKER_05 15:11

I have hope that he will inspire uh better communicators in the progressive side to stop uh being so uh purist and always trying to like uh you know, kind of like uh this sense of like superiority that people hate and just be more on the ground, be more uh uh uh uh accessible, and mostly like just like the way he you do it, he just go into like affordability. Like he's just like, dude, let's make life better in your pocket first, then we can think about like a better feature. Just like now you need money.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

And uh I think that's so important because it's it's real. Yeah, you know, it's not like okay, some point we're gonna change society. No, no, no. It's like what I'm gonna do next week.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

And he literally did that with like the snow. Did you hear the snow plowing around the city? Like, we're gonna give you $30 an hour. It's great. And then he hired a bunch of people. I don't know how many hundreds or whatever or thousands, but like, and the snow got cleaned and people got paid.

SPEAKER_05 16:17

Yeah, it was immediate. That's what I'm saying. It's like we need we need more of that. Like the the the thing is like it's it's it feels real. It's not just like this utopia, right? Just tomorrow, what is gonna be better?

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

I think that's gonna resonate.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Yeah, I think it's already been inspiring a lot of people around the world, but I know with you, the last special that you had from the future, right? But this was the whole concept that in Latin America you were we've already gone through these dictatorships and these, you know, so we know how to kind of kind of how this playbook, you know, goes. And how do you feel about that now? Like, I don't know. Like, I feel like, you know, because we've been through these cycles, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Do you still feel, you know, that you have like, or Latin America, maybe had there the answers are there, you know, for us?

SPEAKER_05 17:10

I think so. I think in many ways, I mean in in small things and big things. Yeah. Um I will say that there's a lot of also like upsides of like uh the US itself. I'm not saying like you have to just embrace Latin America and become one of us and you're gonna be perfect. You know, we also have a lot of issues, and our countries have a lot of things that needed to get fixed. But I think there's uh something about the people and the way they live their lives that's still more uh based on community, yeah. Uh still based on uh the best version of family means like everything is family in a way, you know, like this way to make instant friends, uh and uh this this this capacity to survive in in in terrible conditions, still find joy and find friendship and find uh you know, like this once again, this sense of like, oh, you belong to something that even like you're not rich or you're not them, you're still cooler. You know, you still have something that is like yours and it's your culture and your way that you you you you you live your life. That I think here it's it's very the when people go, we have people have no money or people have no resources, they go really dark, no, because they got really isolated, it kind of like they separated from the world. And over there we still manage, I think because this has happened so many times, that we still manage to find certain kind of joy, and from that joy you can you can kind of like survive anything, anything. And um that that's something that it still feels real. This is stubb a stupid joke, but I always think about this. It's like we in Latin America we kiss and hug each other every single day. Well, people that even we don't even like you know, you you go to dinner and you kiss and hug people that don't even know their names. Right, and the first interaction is a hug and a kiss. Yeah, this is very random, like it's very random. Yeah, and I feel that I even like I remember with my schoolmate, I hug them and kiss them every single day to say hi and goodbye. And I will never go with a shotgun to a school because of that. I feel like I hug them enough when they hug me back, right? But they can't kill them, right? So maybe maybe you know this is the problem. Maybe just like they're this we everyone's like here is like hi, hi, don't touching be far.

unknown 19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:42

So we got used to like a very young age to just be hug and and kiss.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Yes. No, it's so true. Do you watch Subway takes?

SPEAKER_05 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Okay, you know, did you see that?

SPEAKER_05 19:51

That's oh, there's one about this?

SPEAKER_03 19:53

There's one about take?

SPEAKER_05 19:55

Yeah, they stole your take.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Damn it.

SPEAKER_05 19:56

So when he comes to you, yeah, I'm gonna have nothing. No other idea. Isn't it quiet the entire reel? Is this what's your take?

SPEAKER_03 20:04

I'm gonna I don't wanna I don't wanna say well they did, and they did have one about that, like that we should maybe this is the problem with our society. It's just like, you know, and in other cultures, some men h hold hands in the street.

SPEAKER_05 20:17

Is is is yeah, I think, yeah, I don't know. I don't know where where it comes from in the US, but it's very cold. Very cold. It's very cold. And uh that feels like in it's when everyone has money, it's like, yeah, I can be cold and you know, rich and who cares? You know, people appro will approach me anyways because you know they want to be part of my my world. But when everything is falling apart, no one survives by themselves.

SPEAKER_06 20:44

No.

SPEAKER_05 20:44

So I feel like yeah, you have to bring that back a little bit to because I think in the US used to be more like this, you know. When you watch these old movies, you know, all these people were like more into like community, and they and I think they assumed that was like I mean the the conservative people assumed that that was family, you know, but it was not only family, where it was any kind of family. Yeah, you have like this old grandma that actually was not your grandma, it was just an old lady from the neighborhood. Right. Call her grandma, whatever. Every every every woman that was like older when it was a kid, it was aunt.

SPEAKER_06 21:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 21:17

We had my aunt, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:19

But every woman was an aunt, yeah, an uncle, every man was an uncle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:24

That's very specific to us.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

But I think that's also the community, you know, when there's scarcity, right? So like it's like here, I feel like, I mean, and and in other countries too, but here specifically, because of the wealth gap, you know, you can buy your whole life and you don't need to ask anybody for anything. And it's like, you know, or like the people that you're around are just transactional people. Exactly. Right. But if you're living in a small community and you need sugar, you're gonna go to your name, like you have to have you you need those tools. You need those tools to survive. Or when you come as an immigrant and you are trying To figure out where you're gonna live, how you're gonna feed your kids. Exactly. You need a community that's gonna say, Hey, stay with me, or I found this job, or whatever. Like there is you you have to be more close-knit and vulnerable in your needs.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

And and also you need to just uh I mean, I don't have faith that the other side someone's gonna be like, Yeah, you can stay here one night. You know, you're not gonna like you you take more risk because you know, yeah, that's some point someone's gonna help you. Yeah, yeah. Here you feel like no, like someone's gonna like make fun of your failures. Yeah, someone's money monetize that you're going down. My god, or try to sell you something, exactly, and scam you, you know, like you think it's like you will have less money now.

unknown 22:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

Like, oh, you're sad, and then they pull out a depression pill.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Yeah, yeah, it's like or like a 13-month course, like like I I opened, I I have an Instagram account that I have a lot of followers. That is my Chilean one, it's been there for many years, but then I opened a new one in the US, you know, and started like fresh. And I didn't want to connect them because I wanted them to be like fully US US audience. And one thing that impressed me is like the amount of spam that I'm getting in this small account. This why you're trying to scam I'm nothing on the internet, you know? Why they would send you so many to try to steal your account? It's like you try to like send me this money. It's like this account is nothing. If you look at these numbers, it's like this person has no money to be robbed. But I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

I mean, making the connection though, like maybe they're like, this is the same Fabicio from over here.

SPEAKER_05 23:36

It's in just bots, it's just like an insane amount of bots of the dead internet just trying to like just I don't know. It's so weird, it's so innocent. No, no, that's the that's the thing. It's like the other one that there's value there to be stole. Right, nothing. And this other one, this trash is like full of bots every day, just like this sex bots telling me, like, just send me your money. Like, what why? Why?

SPEAKER_03 24:06

That's very strange.

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Yeah, why are you trying to steal from this homeless person?

SPEAKER_03 24:13

You're not gonna get much out of it. Nothing, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:16

So weird.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

So, okay, but last year you became a citizen. Oh, yeah, and you posted that with your special, like you did the whole going into city city hall, yeah. Yes, it's not city hall.

SPEAKER_05 24:28

Maybe no, no, it's not city hall.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

I should know this because I got my citizenship in the same place.

SPEAKER_05 24:31

Yeah, but many years ago.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Yeah, well, not that many actually. I became a citizen like 10, 15 years ago. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:39

Cool. So yeah, it was it was uh it was a fun process. Is i I mean for me.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Yeah, but like how do you feel now? Because it's like this is like like I'm like, do we still want to be American citizens? Like I'm about to renounce my citizenship.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

Do you know what happened to me? That it was very weird that I I went there with this feeling of like transactional, you know. It's like this new president wanna kick out everyone. I need to be here for my kids. I wanna be here in New York. I I will become a citizen because that's the safety's way. Because I don't know, they can wake up tomorrow and be like, ring cards are not that thing anymore. And I'll be like, Oh, what I supposed to do? So I was like, I'm gonna get the citizenship for those reasons. Right. It was once again very like, okay, for safety reasons, very transactional, very kind of cold. But then when I was there, because it the the the last part of the process, you're in a big room, and this judge gonna go on the podium, and he's like, Welcome to America, give these little tiny flags in this like yellow envelope or something. And uh when he started giving a speech, he gave a beautiful speech. I don't know the name of this guy, but I I was like, Wow, this guy amazing.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

I think I know who you're talking about because my friend got her citizenship, my best friend, and she also said this guy gave a beautiful speech, beautiful speech, and he was kind of anti-Trump in his speech, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

He was like the same, it's probably the same judge. Yeah, yeah. He was he let that speech down.

SPEAKER_05 26:10

I was, I was, I was, yeah, I was so impressed. I was out of the cuff, like and he's never gonna repeat this again to any other crowd. And now I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm getting disappointed. But he was so it was the way he worded, like he explained the citizenship and what it means, it was so beautiful. And then I look around and you can see these people crying, and you see like all these people who like really fight for this, and you think about like people who maybe come for like worse conditions, and this is like, or maybe they've been here for 20 years and waiting for this way for 20 years. And I start getting emotional. I was like, I this is beautiful, yeah. You know, this is a beautiful moment, and I should be like, instead of be like, so like ah, yeah, Americans, whatever. I yeah, and I started feeling like, wow, this is something, yeah. And uh I I feel I feel proud of being part of that history, right? Of that part of history. I don't feel proud about the current administration, the current people are running this, but the ideas behind like you, and actually, this is like a Ronald Reagan quote, but he was like, This is the only country you can become American. You know, you can't go to China because Chinese, you know, like this is one of the few places that if you work hard and you belong, they will, or used to be like that, like they will embrace you and you will be like bringing your best to this place, and that was the idea, and these fuckers ruin it for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Right, right, right. Yeah, I did. I that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Because I did actually in the video, when you do it, I did sense your energy shifting too, like you were holding the flag. I was like, he's holding that little flag proudly, actually.

SPEAKER_05 27:49

That guy, that judge in uh those people there made me feel like wow, this is something. This is not just like uh I have to do this paperwork kind of vibe that I went into it.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:01

And uh I'm glad that it's still there somewhere, you know?

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

To find it, but it's still out there.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Right, right. The essence of what this country is supposed to be, exactly, right? Of what it always strived to be, even though there's a lot of hypocrisy in how it, you know, and its creation and all these things, there is still the ideals that we fight for.

SPEAKER_05 28:21

And it's how at the end of the day, if if we pe if people believe in those things, those things are real, right? That's how it works. You know, it's like it's like everything. We believe in it uh will be something, right? And when you see these people who believe in it, you're like, wow, this is wild, it's still there. Yeah, so yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

So you're not moving to Chile?

SPEAKER_05 28:44

No, no, okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

So you're and like, because you know, like I said, a lot of people are like, I'm out. Yeah, I've been thinking about going to DR, I've been, you know, and then I'm also like, I love Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_05 28:53

Well, that's my thing, is first I love New York. I'm I I when people is like, why are you in the US if you hate the president? It's like well, first, what is that voice? And second, it's it's it's many places, not just like Donald Trump land, you know, like New York is the opposite of him, and we're still here and he's still working, it's great. And um, and if they moved somewhere else, I will move to Berlin or something like that. I won't I won't go to back to Chile, I think. Yeah, maybe yeah, Mexico or something. No, but yeah, I love here, particularly this city.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Why not Chile and without pissing off all your Chilean crime?

SPEAKER_05 29:33

Uh no, they I think they mentioned this many ways, many ways before. Uh I love Chile, of course. It's my it's it's my I was born there and I'm always gonna be Chilean, but uh I want to see what else is out there, always. So and I go there a lot, so I I feel connected to everything that is going on over there. But yeah, we'll never like stop being curious.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Yeah. What do you love most about being in New York?

SPEAKER_05 29:59

I love the feeling that everything that is interesting starting is starting is is starting here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Do you still feel that way? I don't know. Maybe I'm jaded because I've been here since I was five years old.

SPEAKER_05 30:11

I'm like, this place is like I mean, I'm glad when when I get overwhelmed with debt, I'm like, this place sucks. But then I go outside, it's so beautiful. And when the summer is coming, everything is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

This is true.

SPEAKER_05 30:23

And uh then, yeah, this shows at night, and we feel like it's it's endless opportunities and possibilities of like what you can find. Yeah, um, I don't know. I love yeah, I love this place. Yeah, yeah. It's just just so expensive.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

It's very expensive. Yeah. So how do you sustain?

SPEAKER_05 30:40

Wow. Wow, wow. I how you pivot. I didn't see that coming. I didn't see that comment. You want to talk about that being a sustainable artist? That's what you're trying to say? That's where you're going with this.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

I mean, it's supposed to be the last question, but I just figured it was too easy to put it in there right now.

SPEAKER_05 30:58

Well, as I told you, it's impossible. This is my before we started recording.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

You said, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 31:07

It's just not the the the the the thesis behind this podcast, it's a mistake. There's not such a thing as a sustainable artist. There's death, there's credit, there's there's misery, there's no sustainability, and there's mild success that cannot carry you to the next wave. You know what a sustainable artist is? Swimming. It's just swimming. It's never there's never ground, there's just water. Just swim, swim, swim till you die. This that's it. That that's we can finish this podcast now. We can just finish not this episode, this podcast, because that's it.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

I shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

But you don't feel like you've reached important levels of success. I mean, I feel like you have, you know, like you I I I had success.

SPEAKER_05 32:06

I I keep reminding myself that I have success because I keep forgetting about it. That's part of my problems. Uh but um yeah, no, I'm very lucky. I I I I have I have resources, but my my I mean my case is very is very specific. I I I don't have the answer for someone who is like just an artist in the sense of like starting now in this context or like with this economy and this social media explosion. And I don't know how to do it. I don't know. I I am very lucky that I started really young and I kind of like uh have my fame over there and my projects that also give me money. I have my projects here that also kind of balance both worlds. But I see my in my opinion, it's like it's so hard that it's on I I don't think it's sustainable.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

I don't think are you saying you're retiring sometime soon?

SPEAKER_05 33:06

Because if you're saying it's you never retire, like you never you're never gonna stop. Like that's part of the problem because it's an obsession. It's not like it's not like it's something you choose. I mean, this is my once again. I don't know how many other people lead their lives, but first of all, this is not something I I wanted to do. Wait, what do you I mean being a comedian or do what I do is something that I love, but it's something that I can't stop myself. You know, I I can't stop myself about doing this. This is this is like a passion, it's like a passion project that is my life, you know? So I don't know what else to do. It's not like I have an option to some point, like, oh, you know, this is not working. I'm just gonna no, this is I'm gonna die on this boat. I don't have I don't I don't have an option. This is it, this is life. I choose this life, I'm in this boat, I love it, but I know this is the only boat I have. So if you go up and down or whatever, it's not like, oh, well, we're going down, so I'm just gonna go work in finance. No, I'm just gonna go down with the boat. So, because I know that every day it's like, oh, how we can just keep ourselves doing new stuff, having fun, keeping the boat afloat, like just trying to be kind of uplifting about like the next things that we can do. And try to remember remind myself the things I'd done before so I don't feel like, oh, this is a tiny boat. No, this is now a ship. I have like different rooms, and I I built this with many years. Yeah. But I I think it's with with the social media and the this economy and like the way things are getting more expensive, it's just it's just trying to like uh manage uh the money that you get, trying to keep peace of mind for a second, use that peace of mind as your real wealth, and in that those moments of peace of mind, build, build, build, build. So you have something when things go crazy, you go in debt, you go bankrupt, you try again, you know, because that's gonna be the cycle probably for every artist.

SPEAKER_06 35:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

Till I don't know, they get something big, and hopefully that will but also like everything lasts not that long anymore. Used to be like you have one head. I don't know. Sometimes I go on the road and there's this comic so it's like he was in the Cosby show for an episode, and they're still milking that cameo in a show of a monster, yeah. Right, and you can't do that anymore. You know, you can have 1.5 billion views in one reel next week, no one cares. Or you kind of like die down, and in a month, in five years, that is gone completely. Yeah, so yeah, I feel like right now it's just about swimming, just like creating a new one, a new one, a new one, a new one, a new one, and see how this thing is gonna shape instead of have a little bit more of shape that uh that feels like okay, we have something here, you know. But I feel like all the comics that are getting successful because of social media, they're also like where I'm supposed to go now. Like I I have these millions of viewers, I have this podcast that is doing really well. And because the mostly millennials, they're like, when I'm gonna get a TV show, even if it's like a Netflix stream or whatever, like a TV show. And it's not happening that often. And now the deals are super weird. Like, oh, you made it. You made it the whole thing and just sell it when it's ready. Good luck. It's like, oh, I have to be a millionaire to make five episodes of something that is like in the quality that you need for your streamer.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Right.

SPEAKER_05 36:43

But I you're not gonna give me the money like beforehand, like it used to be, to develop this and pay the rent and like blah blah blah, and live my life and take my kids to school. No, no, no. Just spend the money and then we'll buy it, you know, or less. When it's ready and and it's proof, and it's you know, we can watch every episode and be like, mm, now okay, yeah, here's your money.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Or we won't buy it.

SPEAKER_05 37:07

And that's another thing. We'll be like, okay, good luck. But uh, yeah, it's it's a very weird moment, I think. Everything is like scattered around and uh I think it's at some point something's gonna make more sense. It's gonna be like a little like a ladder again to understand this business. But let's I I mean once again, in this moment I think it's just swimming and try to like have a plan, stick to it, and try to be an artist. That I think is the most the hardest part is not it's not the sustainability art, it's like being an artist. It's also like the algorithm and everything tells you like not being an artist, be a cellman, get to sell something, go to this niche because your money's here, pivot to this because the algorithm is changing. It's like you're supposed to be an artist, you're supposed to just do things and people will like it.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

So kind of like keep that mindset during the whole process. I think it's the most difficult part of power.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

I mean, I think in your doomsday summary, there were some genuine gems in there, you know, of like what you do specifically to stay afloat. That's your version of sustainability. I'm staying afloat, you know. I keep my peace, you know, I try to be an artist consistently, focus on that and understand that there is no safety net. There is no, you know.

SPEAKER_05 38:26

Oh yeah. Kind of give up on that. I think that's my my theory. It's like the first thing you have to do is like, okay, there's no safety net. Let's let's see.

SPEAKER_06 38:34

Yeah, yeah. You have to have a little bit of faith.

SPEAKER_05 38:37

You have to have a little bit of the delirious, like uh have to be a little bit like crazy. I mean, honestly, like any person that is an artist, you need to kind of leave a faith in yourself that it's kind of absurd.

unknown 38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:51

You know, you have to have that in you.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because I feel like for this show, I often say I think everyone's an artist, right? Because we're all creators, we're all artistic creators in some way. Even if you are doing finance, right? But I know there's like a finance guy that's like, I have a dream, you know, like even that was this Marglar King of finance.

SPEAKER_05 39:13

It was this guy in your mind. It's like in the middle of the night, he's like, I have a dream. What what is this? He also wanna be a musician?

SPEAKER_03 39:23

That's yeah, or something. Yeah, and in that you do have to be delirious, like because the the finance thing is the safety piece. Yeah, maybe there are finance people out there who love their jobs.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

I don't know personally, one probably. Maybe I mean they hate their jobs. I am ever now that I have kids, I have to go to parent uh uh teacher teachers. Well, I have to meet parents. Yeah, I never meet people in my day. I never meet people by age or like the same. I don't know, I don't know people, you know. I know comics. Maybe like a few other, I don't know, adjacent to comic people, you know, bartenders and things like that.

SPEAKER_07 40:01

Yeah, but the regular people.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

I'm not yeah, I'm not I'm not with them. So I now I I hang with them sometimes at the park or like when we're waiting for the kids. And I can tell that they they're so impressed by what I do, you know, like they wow it's for your comedian, like where the shows and how is the thing? And uh then I remember like wow, yeah, this is their life is so boring, you know, like they they they're so impressed with this because they work in finance or what and they yeah, so yeah, I I think everyone wants to be an artist, but uh they have a probably like a safety net that is also maybe a good decision for their lives, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

And maybe they're happy. I mean, I think the older that I get, the more I'm like, why wasn't I an accountant or something?

SPEAKER_05 40:46

Once again, because you can't. I mean, yeah, this is my thing. It's like I can't if it even if we try, yeah, you know, if I give up everything tomorrow and I try, I can't just I'm not gonna be good, I'm gonna hate myself.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

You don't wanna be like a welder.

SPEAKER_05 40:59

I mean, that is an artist too, but like Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. But yeah, this is what I have.

SPEAKER_06 41:06

Yeah, this is what this is it. This is it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:09

I mean, sometimes it looked like this old comics, like like they're still on the road. I'm looking at them, it's like, you're still here, man. You're still here. Wow. I I don't know, maybe I'll be you. You know, I'll be you in a couple years.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Well, what's behind the wow? Is the wow cool or is the wow?

SPEAKER_05 41:28

It's both. It's like I salute you, I feel sorry for you, but go for it. You know, kind of like that feeling of like this is kind of beautiful and sad at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

What would be your ideal retirement then?

SPEAKER_05 41:45

Uh well, I would love to have an audience in the US to to travel and do shows all over the place. Uh I want to keep work doing my stuff in Chile and Latin America and keep building. At some point I would love to have resources to make uh movies without going through the system just to do it by myself and a small crew and just make movies. And uh hopefully uh die. At some point uh when you're very old? Well yeah, yeah, fairly old. Like fairly old, like 75. Yeah. And uh and yeah, and just and just uh enjoy that period of time between stand-up and making these movies once in a while. That would be the goal. That sounds like a good life.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

I don't really want to like end it on how you would you know what how I wanna die?

SPEAKER_05 42:43

I wanna die. This is my this is for me like the perfect die. The way uh in in the Godfather part two, my uh no part three, no, part three Michael Crow in a die is in a chair in a in a needle in Italy, and he just like kind of like the chair. That's a perfect way of dying, no? Yeah, there's not a lot of pain, there's not hospitals, it's just like you're here in the fork.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Yeah, yeah. See, I love how you brought it to death, but my question was about retirement specifically.

SPEAKER_05 43:16

Oh, okay. I don't think that's a thing anymore. Oh, let me you wanna go back to the to the doomsday scenario? I don't think retirement is possible in this generation. I don't I think we're gonna be like the the boomers. We're gonna be working till we die and we're gonna have like a 99-year-old millennial president. Yeah. Twice. I think that this is a generation that's never gonna stop working.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

I don't think you're wrong. I think that's a lot of what's happening. I mean, even though the fabric of our entire universe is like falling apart now, so we never know.

SPEAKER_05 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Do you use AI, by the way?

SPEAKER_05 43:55

I use AI, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

How do you use AI?

SPEAKER_05 43:58

Uh it's I mean some. Sometimes I use it for uh medical advice.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

I do that too.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

Especially mental health.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Am I still crazy? You know, I switched to Claude.

SPEAKER_05 44:11

Oh yeah, I switched to Claude.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

I switched to Claude and um we're part of the Yeah, we're putting it right.

SPEAKER_05 44:18

Um part of the right trend.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

We're part of the right trend. But Claude, it's so funny because it does have more guardrails. Claude tells me the other day, I think you need to see. Like I'm just an AI.

SPEAKER_05 44:30

Yeah, I don't. I'm not Chat GPD. I'm not gonna lie to you. You need medical, but you need professionals. You need prof you need humans, they can help you.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

I I crush my pearls. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Listen, I I all the information available in the world, I have it here. It's not enough. It's not enough for you. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Um, I really need to. I felt very judged. I don't know if you felt the difference with Claude. I I for your question.

SPEAKER_05 45:01

They're both very nice. They always make you feel like I'm very brave to say what I'm saying. I love it because it's like, oh, I hate this, like first of all, that's very bright. You're in the right place. Just you know why I'm always right. I'm always right.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah, yeah, that's what that's how it's designed.

SPEAKER_05 45:21

Yeah. And uh the the the yeah, they didn't give it like I I also try to have like this kind of like um uh random conversations about like, okay, I've been thinking about this joke, but I don't like the way it's is is worded. So can you just tell me like seven versions of the same till like I find like the rhythm in one of them? And uh and that works really well. I'm so that I'm the car I'm in the car and put it like it and and just like repeat the joke many times so I can just like listen to it.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Yeah, yeah. Do you think there's some com comedy purist out there that's gonna be like, how dare that?

SPEAKER_05 45:54

If you don't use it for I mean, first of all, I think everyone is using it. Yeah. Second, it's like if you use it for jokes, it's a waste of time because it's not great. Right. Because also like the opposite for like being a good comic, it's like you're trying to find an original thought. Right. And this is doing the opposite. The machine is like uh, you know, like trying to find the most common ground of everything. So by design, it's not a good idea to use it for jokes.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Right.

SPEAKER_05 46:19

But in terms of like um, yeah, like for me, especially especially with my English, like sometimes like I had this idea for a joke, but I'm not saying it, I'm saying like in Spanish in my brain. So how I can just say this. So for me, I'm like, that's not cheating, it's just using like language, you know?

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Yeah, yeah. I get it. Yeah, and um, yeah, I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying somebody out there will say, How dare he? No, they can say that. Okay. Yeah. You see, this is what makes you sustainable, is that you don't give a fuck. Like you, like even like it's so funny. I admire even the way when you have to like promote something, how you announce it, because it's very much like you could be like brushing your teeth in the bathroom and you're like, hey, I got something going on. I will come. But I like I like the idea that it should be it should be like that. I should be like that. It's in most people, myself included, it's hard for that to be done in that way. But it's like the best way, it's like the healthiest way.

SPEAKER_05 47:12

And also like because I and this is also a theory that I have in my brain about how we look at the internet and how like the new generations look at the internet. I'm trying to learn about this because I think millennials, we were born in a world like the last days of a world with no internet, and then this the internet started, and everything on the internet feels like forever. And it's it's forever, but let me say this it's forever, and because it's forever doesn't matter, you know? Because we also used to think it was like, oh, every time I post something or I write something, someone's gonna read it in 10 more years and I'm gonna look dumb. Yeah, and the problem is that that happened during the Twitter cancel era. Everyone was like, you say this in 1995, and it's you know, and that was was a traumatic event of the internet that we went through. Yeah, but this generation care. Yeah, because they know that the internet is like forever, like it's a river of shit. Like the river keeps going. Yeah, so you can say something horrible.

SPEAKER_06 48:16

Now it's like over there in a second, and now it's like way there, and now it's like yeah, way, way behind you, because you post so many times every single day that the machine just like keep keep going, keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_05 48:26

So now I can do those videos. Like, I don't like the the while I'm doing it is disappearing from the internet. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 48:34

It's so fast that I upload it as a really like miles behind me.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:39

So why I care that much?

SPEAKER_03 48:41

Why you put so much weight onto something and put fear. Exactly. This is the detachment thing I was saying in the beginning. You said something very I don't know if you realize how profound what you just said is. Because it is actually very profound. It's like because it's forever, that makes it not matter.

SPEAKER_05 48:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

Yeah, it's like time, time is forever.

SPEAKER_05 49:05

Because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

If we're if we're in an infinite universe, time is forever, then why does any of this why do we say why do we have this matter?

unknown 49:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

I agree with you. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

It's the same thing. You're saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 49:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, it the the only tattoo that I have in my body is here, and it's something that says it's just a right. There's a it's a quote from uh Bill Hicks, it's my favorite comic. And his whole joke is about like life is go upside down, and I'm gonna paraphrase it, it's way better if you watch it on YouTube. But he's like, at the end of the day, it's just a right. It doesn't matter that much. It's just a right, you know? And when we've with those people who tell us that, we we as society, we kill them. We hate they tell us like this is not important. Yeah, we need it needs to be important, man. I have a house and I have money and I have why it's not important. It's like it's just a right. So for me, it's very important to because I feel it's not like I'm like this all the time. I don't care about stuff, I just make this video. No, you're talking about GPT, yeah, but concerned about shit all the time. Yeah, so I need to be like it's just a right, the internet is just a river of shit, like everything is fake, like nothing matters anymore to feel free and navigate the the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

Yeah, there's your your your deep answer.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

That's the way to do it. That's the way to be a sustainable artist.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

See? All right, we could end there, but I'm gonna ask one last question. Please actually no, we're gonna end there because you answered the question already. You answered the question.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

You can ask it again.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

Well, the question is the last question is if you can imagine a future, you know, where artists can be more sustainable, what does that future look like?

SPEAKER_05 50:51

Oh, it's all about money. Honestly, the only way to make it sustainable is I don't know if it's universal income or but it's the only way that people have spare time, have, can dedicate hours to something that's for other people is like meaningless. That is like, I don't know, crafting an album with five songs are amazing. It's gonna take you five years, and we're gonna pour all your feelings. You need someone to just put the money so these people can buy food and you know, go to the park and think about the songs and scratch the whole album at the halfway and be like, we're gonna start again. And then at the end, be like, no, let's just put the first one out there, you know? Right. That process needs time and space, and the only way to create a sustainable artist and sustainable environment is like just pouring a lot of money to these people to waste their time and create something amazing.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 51:49

That should be the way it is.

SPEAKER_05 51:51

I think that's always been.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

Do you think that that it takes away something in the art when you don't struggle? When you're like, because you know, a lot of art is born from struggle.

SPEAKER_05 52:00

I think struggle it's different than uh being uh in desperation. Desperation. You know, I think this contest is a desp it's the desperate context. It's not like people doing something uh because they're emotionally struggling with, I don't know, because struggle has a lot of ways, you know. Like you can be struggling, you can be in this in I don't know, like if you can I I I I have a friend who's a musician and I was just listening to the song, she had just have a baby, and she had postpartum depression, and she came out with this beautiful song. Uh her name is Francisca Valenzuela, she's from Chile. And uh I was like, Well, she's talking about like she have a perfect house. I have this perfect baby here, and I just don't know what I'm going crazy. I was gonna kill myself. And I was like, this is that's the struggle that I want to listen about, you know, and for that you need resources.

SPEAKER_03 52:51

100%. I wanted to be a little bit of a devil's advocate.

SPEAKER_05 52:55

Yeah, but that's why I asked. But you did a great job. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

Thank you for telling me I was a great job as you are a great job as a devil. Thank you for being on the sustainable artist.

SPEAKER_05 53:08

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

Good, a good one, Emmy? One for the books.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

Cool, man.