The Real Face of Sex Trafficking in 2026

When most of us think about sex trafficking, we think of Taken. But the truth is quieter, closer, and far more common than most people realize. In this episode, host Lexsi Lewis is joined by survivor advocate Ebony Jones and public health expert Marissa Weekly to break down what trafficking and grooming actually look like today. From gaming platforms and social media to the "boyfriend pimp" dynamic hiding in plain sight. They cover red flags at every age, why victims don't just leave, what parents need to know, and how everyday people can make a difference without overhauling their entire lives. Educational, honest, and empowering.

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Transcript

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Hey, it's your girl Lexi Lewis and welcome to Occasionally Perfect. Before we get into today's episode, I do want to give a quick heads up that we are going to be talking about sex trafficking, abuse, and exploitation. Nothing is overly graphic, but it is real. So just be mindful to where you are, who you're with, and how you're feeling as you listen. I think a lot of us grow up thinking trafficking looks like a movie, like something dramatic, something obvious, something that could never really happen in our world. But the truth is it's a lot quieter than that. It's manipulation, it's grooming, it's control. And a lot of the time it's happening right in front of the people who don't even realize it. And when you start looking into it, even just a little, you realize how big this problem actually is. In the US alone, hundreds of thousands of people are estimated to be trafficked every year, and globally it's in the tens of millions. And when it comes to sexual violence, the numbers are just as heavy. Most women will experience some form of in their lifetime, and their majority of the cases are never ever reported. So when you see numbers like that, and then you look at how slowly things move, how often things get ignored, how often people in power don't act or don't act fast enough, it makes you feel like, okay, we can't just wait around for someone else to fix this. We have to be more aware, we have to protect ourselves, protect our kids, and protect our communities. And that's really what I wanted to do this episode. This is me using my voice to bring attention to something that deserves way more attention. This is me supporting the people who are actually doing the work every single day, helping survivors, educating communities, and trying to prevent this from happening in the first place. But also, this episode is for you. It's for you to understand what this actually looks like in real life. It's for you to know what to look out for. It's for you to feel more prepared and not more scared. And it's for you to walk away knowing that there are things that you can do, if not on a mass scale, then at least in your own life, your own circle, and your own awareness. Because even if systems are slow, people don't have to be. And with that, I didn't want this to just be a conversation from me. I wanted to bring in people who are actually in the work, who see it up close and are doing something about it every day. So today I'm joined by Ebony Jones, a nationally recognized speaker and survivor of sexual exploitation, who spent years educating communities and supporting those affected by trafficking. And also Marissa Weekly, who is over a decade of experience in public health and youth development, working directly with communities to prevent trafficking before it even starts. Welcome to Occasionally Perfect Ladies. I just want to jump right into this today. I feel like so many people have this idea of what sex trafficking is. When people hear sex trafficking, what do they usually get wrong about that? I would say oftentimes people look at it as like the take-in movie or like someone is always when they say forced, right? Because human trafficking is defined by someone who is forced to do something or coerced by something. Um and so because of that, people think it's like ropes and chains and people being um cars and trunks and things like that, kidnapped, and that's not always the situation. Yeah, so exactly what you just said, I feel like people go into like this big dramatic thing and not realizing some subtle ways that are ha it's happening. What does it more commonly look like? I think it's easy to see the Hollywood version of movies like Taken and even the word human trafficking in itself, it kind of implies that there's movement with the word trafficking. Um what we see that it looks like more often is really this peer-to-peer type of thing. It's the boyfriend pimp, the grooming, um, a lot of this romancing, this, you know, we can be in a relationship, fairy tale dreams, and then it turns out to be something that they weren't expecting. Yeah. How often is it people's family members too? More than you think? Um Yeah, I I that's definitely when we're looking at, you know, some of the risk factors or what makes a person more vulnerable to trafficking. Um, a history of have trafficking in their family could be a vulnerability or an increased risk. Um we do know that it can be generational and that it does happen. Um more commonly though, it seems like it's currently peer-to-peer social media, gaming platforms, online. For example, you know, there's games like Roblox, like Fortnite, and they have um chat ends where you can talk to players. Um, I think a lot of parents assume it's safe because it's a kid game. Yeah. But um traffickers and predators are just as as smart and in thinking, you know, there's kids here. I can pretend to be a kid, I can talk to people, this is a safe space where I can start getting to know them, making them feel comfortable because this is a kid place, we're playing games here. Um, and then it gets more and more crossing the line, more past you know, the original consent or what they thought it was. It's a meeting in person type of situation. Yeah, and it sometimes it can even go as far as to meeting in person. Um there was actually a viral clip on social media where somebody had a ring cap um a ring camera captured an adult pulling up to a child's house that he had talked to and met and got his address through chatting on roadblocks. So um it's definitely happening. Predators are getting um more advanced as technology advances. Yeah, so you think that's the most common way that traffickers are getting connected to people now is through like social media and yeah, I would agree 100% that uh traffickers are gonna use what's mainly used nowadays, especially by teens, because the average age that someone is being trafficked now and nationally, especially in San Diego, is 13. Um so we have a lot of kids that are on different types of meet different types of meeting platforms um where they are just trying to get likes, look for validation, look for affirmation from people, and look for acceptance sometimes from people. And the traffickers know that. People know that, pimps know that. And so they speak into the things that they may post on social media, like for example, there's a young girl that may post, Oh, I hate my parents, like are they all they make me stay in the house all the time. I'm so bored, I wish I could just get away. And then that's a perfect opportunity for a trafficker or a pimp to jump in their inbox and say, Hey, you know, like I would love to take you away from your parents they just don't understand you and really validate and build trust with this youth. And then next thing you know, this youth is out meeting this person, thinking it's a friend or a trusted person, and really it's not. They're building a relationship with traffic that 13 is crazy. Do you think when do you think that parents should start talking to their kids about about the people online? Because you're saying 13, I'm like, I almost have a preteen right now, so I'm like, she's 10, and I'm like, oh my god. Yeah, how do we have those like what are we what are the signs or that we should warn our kids about of who they're talking to? Yeah, I think well online first of all, people that kids should keep their profiles private no matter what's going on, right? Like, I think that's number one. But I think the age that you begin to start talking to your kids is when they're really young. Like, I started talking to my daughters when they were about five, four or five years old, just about safe touch. And like what's red touch, what's green touch, who's allowed in red touch, who's not allowed in red touch, things like that. Um, depending on we know what's going on in the scenario. They know doctors are allowed if mommy and daddy are present, things like that. Um, but I think talking about them about stranger dangers first and foremost, because a lot of kids are just in social media is teaching you to socialize with just almost anybody, right? And so I think the game together. Yeah, exactly. Think nothing of it, or the poster location and you know, things like that. And so yeah, I think really early on talking about safe touch is important. And that's why I think it's so important too that we just have these conversations because if we could be realistic of what it really looks like, then we can have realistic strategies that actually work, tangible things that parents can do, the young people can do. But when we have this Hollywood sensationalized vi version or image in our mind, and you know, even on social media, we're looking at, oh, zip ties on your windshield, or you've been marked and you're being tracked and you're gonna be shipped somewhere else, um, that makes what's really happening really easy to slide under the radar. If you're so busy looking here and looking for handcuffs and white vans, and you're missing the person that's on Roblox trying to talk to your person and your child and slowly groom them online through platforms. So really having the conversations early, knowing what to look for, um, giving your child language to call it out, to call out things that are unsafe, uncomfortable, safety within you and and the young um in your child's relationship to say, Hey mom, this is uncomfortable or this happened and I don't really know how to respond. Yeah, um, is also really important. Yeah. Are there any sex-specific environments where you feel like people are more vulnerable? When you say environments, are you referring to like uh locations or are you speaking speaking of our day-to-day, like where we're how we're living or who we're around? Um I know for sure the malls are one place that you know pimps and traffickers may go to seek out young girls or just people in public. The mall, the movies, concerts, um, places that are public locations. I think that's one thing that a lot of people think that it happens in like the back dark alley or in that one hood over here on that one street. And like, no, it happens almost everywhere. There's a public, um, there's a big public crowd. It can happen. Really, traffickers are looking for people that don't know their rights, that um don't have the autonomy to make their own choices, they can't really speak up. Um, so when we're looking at who's most vulnerable, we really need to think about the most vulnerable are are those that are marginalized, those that are unseen, that are are unspoken for. And a lot of times that's young people, that's people with disabilities, um, that's ethnic minorities, that's people who are LGBTQIA, um, new immigrants to the US, who may have English as a second language, who may not know how to navigate our legal systems. Um, so really thinking about like when we're protecting and preventing, who's the most vulnerable and who's the most marginalized. Yeah, that's why even when I hear things of them having conversations of like they're gonna take sex at sex education outside of out of schools, I'm like, well, sometimes that's the only place where they learn about it in a way that's not from their peers or from the people online. So I hear those conversations, I'm like, and then what if someone that you live with is even doing that? If you don't learn from an outside person, exactly, then you're more susceptible to go fall victim to that. What are some ways that what are some ways that traffickers traffickers start to build a connection with victims? Um, well, I would say one by building trust, and once they build trust, they try to isolate the victim. I think they try to get them to depend on them, only see them, only see them as a form of dependence, um, see them as a way out, see them as another option, um, as a better option. Um, potentially like it could be a big they say they can say things like I can help you make more money so that you don't have to live in this area, or that you don't have to listen to your parents, or you know, so that you can have a better car because you need to take care of your kids, or you know, and just that opportunity for some people, especially moms, single moms, um, they may take advantage of that of that opportunity because they have no way to pre provide diapers, especially depending on where you live at in the United States, right? It's really expensive for gas and rent and diapers and food, and so yeah, I would say they use their vulnerabilities for sure, um, and their circumstances to be able to try and um manipulate them or trick them or get them to coerce them into selling their bodies. Yeah, like a lot of times it's a l I don't think people really think about the mental aspect of the manipulation, and yeah, I think we kind of more lean in obviously there's physical too, but I yeah I think that's completely ignored of all of that gets tied into like your identity. I also feel like pimp there are some pimps out there who are not your average pimp. And when I say your average pimp, I mean the one that may be flamboyant, the one that may be um loud and maybe have on a certain type of clothing, and you know, he may be someone that we living right next door to you and you wouldn't even know. He may already have a day job, um, he may be married. And I'm speaking of situations that I actually know of, like these are people that may be D-boys, and then D-boy is somebody that sells drugs, right? And so it all depends on the environment in which and where you are at. Um, but there's a lot of different types of pimps. It's not always that scary in the van, in the back alley, like it's not always that, right? Yeah, always that guy that gives you the bat filling in your gut. Sometimes it's someone that you think smells good, someone that you think may look good, yeah um, and appear to be that gentleman, that handsome, charming person, but later on down the line, you know, you find yourself in a situation where you're you know no longer want to live that life. I even was thinking about how you're saying in the sensationalization of like how trafficking looks, yeah, the same as that. Like for the pimp, and you know, it's still I think if everyone thinks of a pimp, they still think of like a big fur coat and like just that was black black sportation films or whatever when they had that, you know, in the 80s and 70s that they had that certain look. And you know, I worked in a strip club and there's always pimps in there, and it's it looks like oh, a dude that would just try to talk to you at the club, like it doesn't always look exactly like you said, like some yeah, really, yeah, for a coat, little hat, like little lingo, yeah. I think with grooming, they're they're trying to catch the bees with honey, so they're trying to, you know, look the part, act the part. Right. And when we're thinking of who's vulnerable, it's really people that are living in survival mode. So when someone's already in survival mode, anything that you offer them is gonna sound excellent, right? So I think also, you know, the way that they're playing on some of those vulnerabilities and those key things that everyone needs. I think there's the word when choice comes in the in the in the mix for me, that word choice. Like a lot of people say, oh, she had a choice or they had a choice, or like no one was holding a gun up to their head, but it's was a choice of no choices, essentially, right? Because it was like if we if I if I was to be able to provide all this person's needs, then would they still do this, right? And it's like it's all depends on to me, like their circumstance and their tra their childhood trauma, but also like what opportunities are in front of them in order for them to be able to move forward, right? Um, and so yeah, I think that when it comes to like the idea of vulnerabilities, people always say, Well, they they came from this or they came from that or their parents were these people or those people. And it's like, yeah, but you never know what's really going on, anyone emotionally or psychologically, or you know, even physically, um, and what needs they may need may need needs that may need to be met. Um especially when they are venting and someone is coming in with all of the ways to fix it because they can talk to them and be open to them. Yeah. So what do you think are some I guess red flags if someone is coming to onto you in that way? What are some things of this could be this kind of situation versus this is just actually someone that adores me and is trying to be here for me. When do you think those red flags should start coming, going off to someone? This might not just be all honey. I think it looks different depending on the age. Um, I think in focusing on youth um and young children, it's gonna look like someone coming on super strong. Um, you know, maybe telling you that they love you right away, um, maybe trying to make your parents feel like they are the enemy or whoever your guardianship is is the enemy, um, potentially making your situation look worse than it maybe it really is, and trying to convince you that they can provide something better for you without any true like rapport being built or any like real trust and understanding being built. Um, they may want to already take ownership of you, they may like splurge and spend a lot of money on you, offer you certain things, but then on the back end want you to repay it in some kind of way. Um, I would say that's how it looks for a lot of youth. Um typically it could be a lot of people think it's always an older person. Sometimes they're they're almost the same age. Like you have a ninth grader and a senior, you know, be a ninth grader being um trafficked by a senior. You know, that can actually and that does happen. Um, and so yeah, it's a dynamic I wouldn't think about either. I would think red flags for an adult would be it would they look kind of similar, but I would say um, you know, trying to definitely like sweet talk you and manipulate you, but like coming on love bombing is what we like to call it. Um love bombing is something that I think happens without people really noticing it, and you should be able to question it without that person getting angry with you. Or, you know, if you're trying to talk to other people, they should and it's in the beginning, they shouldn't be trying to control you and tell you that you shouldn't be talking to your parents and you should only talk to me, you should only trust me, and I'm like a god basically for you. Um it can look like someone just offering you a better circumstance um or a better opportunity. Um, and it doesn't there, it just doesn't sit right. It's not 100% always maybe perfect. Right, yeah, the intuition your gut feeling may not feel 100% um solid for you. Um let me think, what other ones you can you think of? I was thinking, you know, when you brought up the age difference and how it looks different, and I think that really tells the story of why traffickers like to go after young, you know, early, early 20s, sometimes before 18. And I think it's because the red flags that we see so commonly now in our 30s is I I think like it's the same kind of flags that you would see dating in someone that you're like, okay, maybe he's maybe he's not, you know, but yeah, of course we're looking for it. Exactly. So I I think the signs, you know, everyone would call it a red flag at this age, but they're specifically looking for a younger age because it's easier to have the blinders on. Exactly. So that's why it's so important that we're really teaching young people how to empower themselves and how to look for the signs. Otherwise, if they don't have a baseline, it's gonna look like a green bag. This sounds great. Yeah, yeah. Another red flag is they're not gonna tell you their occupation potentially. Like they're gonna have all this money, all these opportunities, all these things, but they may not tell you what they do for a living. Um, maybe there's a lot of traveling happening, but you you see them in hotels a lot often or you know, things like that, I could say um is some of the things that I've seen lately. Um, a lot of money, cash on hand, and really no answer for where it came from. Um, those are other red flags I would say too as an adult. What about as a parent? Are there any signs that you think parents can look for that maybe my kid is talking to someone or that they, I don't know, might have been, yeah, I don't know, contacted. Is there anything that you as a parent that you think that we should look for in our kids? I'd say change in behavior, change in mood, attitude. Obviously, there's different age groups where that's just a part of it. Yeah. Moodiness and and but you know, um, I I think someone who is always really talkative and all of a sudden you're noticing change, closing up, quiet, maybe they're not sharing as much. Maybe when you're, you know, inquiring about their friends or their social media or their gaming, they're kind of you know defensive or they draw back. So um I think it really starts with just having the conversation, talking to them, being really aware of you know who you are. Yeah, exactly, getting to know their friends and and who they're around. Because once that starts changing, that's a big indicator. When their their kind of talk starts changing, maybe they're going by a different name, maybe on social media their pictures. I always tell parents, like, see if you see one red flag doesn't mean that they're being trafficked. Even if you see three, they may not be being trafficked. It's just how the how they kind of combine and which is why, which is why it's really important to get that education, study things online, read as much as you can, connect with someone in your local city that knows about trafficking, awareness, education, prevention education, so that way you can ask them follow-up questions so that you know what to do depending on what level they may be already engaged. Um, how do you think traffickers actually, when it comes to like okay, you're targeted, how do they start to to isolate their victims? Ooh, um, that can look like one threat. Um so like with the love bombing, as we were talking about earlier, right? Love bomb you, love bomb you, love bomb you, then pull away, don't talk to you for three days. You don't know where I'm at, where I've been, you know, ghost just ghost meet, right? And then you come back around and I tell you what, I don't I really just don't like the way that you know left when your mom called and she you know, seemed like she was more important than you. Right? So they start to make it seem like they are more of a priority than anybody else that you care about. And if they become jealous of the relationships that you may have with other people. Um so then you begin to re-lessen the amount of time that you actually talk to those individuals because you don't want to make that person mad, or the time you spend in certain locations because you don't want to make that person mad. Um I would say that's where isolation begins uh with amount like food and like having a good time, all of a sudden now you're stuck in a house and you can't do anything, you're not going anywhere, you don't have any money because he has all of it. Um and so now in order for you to get out and do something, you have to get money from him, or permission for him. Um so that's another form of isolation, right? Keeping you in the house, making you have to answer to him, keeping all the money away from you. Um and even that that's even before even maybe you're being trafficked. That could be just him having a lot of money on his own, and now in the beginning, in the first eight months, six months, you guys are getting to know each other, you guys are hanging out, you're going out to eat, he's buying you clothes, and all of a sudden that just stops. Right, and it's the first time in your life that you've ever even had these things, and so now you're like, wait, I want that back. So, what do I have to do in order to get that from you again? Right? So that begins another isolation. That person starts to forget who they are and how they show up, and you know, forget those that are most important in their own interest and things like that around them. Yeah, that's what kind of make you feel like this is this is your fault that we don't have things anymore, right? And then that's kind of how It can switch over. Or start creating scenarios where maybe you're ashamed to show the people that you're close to, maybe get you addicted to something that you don't want people to know about. Um, you know, I didn't even think about the addiction side of things outside of telling people. Exactly. Tell people what you do, they're not gonna love you no more. Yeah, they don't know who you really are, what you're really doing. This side of you could be exposed, um, they're the enemy because they don't support you. Common tactics, you know, that we see is similar to domestic violence, intimate partner violence, child abuse. Exactly. A lot of intersections. Yeah. Okay. What are some things that you think that we can teach our kids to make them aware of without making them like scared of everybody? Yeah. Because they do have to go out and you know, meet people and interact in the world, and we want them to be confident and you know, yeah. So what are ways that we can be like, but that's part of what we do in our our program uh for youth. It's called Project Roots, it's a prevention education program. And really we're addressing root causes, and that's the way that we found is an effective way of letting them know about the issue and the danger that occurs without being scary. So we're talking about root causes in terms of what makes someone more vulnerable to being trafficked. We can't necessarily change trafficking, we can't change the demand, but we can empower young people to build up protective factors. So that looks like healthy communication, healthy relationships, understanding consent and boundaries, red flags, green flags, and toxic behaviors, um, identifying safe people and safe places that they can go to if something does come up, um, online safety, making your account private, um, you know, learning how to only talk to people that you know, blocking people that are uncomfortable, not sharing your location where you go places, you know, maybe till after you leave. Um, turning off your location on all devices that you may have, like Snapchat automatically shows your location if you don't turn it off. Um, if you get invited to a party, always share your address with someone that you care about, especially for the teens that like to, you know, run outside at night when mom's at work or dad sleep. Um share your location with a safe with a safe friend or a safe trusted adult so that way if you don't come home at three o'clock in the morning, at least they know the last place you were at. You know, these are just common things like teenagers are doing right now. They're sneaking out at night. Um, yeah, there'll be some really good good things for them to know early. Yeah, because I think when you're empowered with education, when you know what to look for, it's less scary, you know? Because if you're just hearing about something and what could happen to you without any kind of this is what you could do, yeah. Um that's really so that's where we focus on is like what you can do to protect yourself, and not that the burden is on the kid, but there are certain ways that you could be empowered. Yeah, and I mean we don't know how that's what I was just gonna ask next. If if someone thinks that, okay, I think this person is trying to groom you or trying to manipulate them in a way, what are things that they can do to I don't know, is it just still like the parents? Is there it what would you suggest if they have that that thought that I think I am being yeah. Um, well, I think uh being able to identify a safe person for some young people it is their parents, some young people it it may be a friend's parent or an aunt or yeah, someone that's in the community working. So I think giving them the tools to say, okay, let's think ahead of time. This is how we're being preventative. You know, it hasn't happened yet. We're not in panic mode, we're not in survival mode. Let's think calmly together, let's talk about it as a family, as a community with our friends. Who is someone that we could talk to? Who wouldn't, you know, have a crazy reaction or who wouldn't tell our parents if we weren't ready for them, you know? There has to be different options for young people. It just, it's, it's making me like scared hearing this though, because I just know as like a teenager just how uncomfortable it is to talk to a doll about feelings and stuff, blah blah blah. I mean, I wasn't taught by my parents anything like about sex or like touching your body or anything. Even when my mom found a condom, it was like, why do you have a condom? And I was like, I I I didn't know how to use it. I was like, I just took it from this person, and like, you know, so I think and I it was something we never talked about until I had my year of like I don't like I don't like people my mom, and like so it's it is it's crazy how many people don't have the conversations about sex with their kids, and I just hope that hearing this that they will make it comfortable because if not, somebody else is gonna start teaching them about it. And I don't think that me being uncomfortable with my kid is worth having somebody else expose it. I don't I exactly I just get scared because I just know how many parents are like I don't want to talk about this with my kids, it's my kid, it's my baby, and and we understand that in our work, and that's why we've we've thought of different ways too. Um so one of the ways that we kind of counteract that piece is to work with young leaders, um, peers that like you know have an a special interest or want to be an advocate for their friends, um, and teaching them to be a safe person and kind of that middle person to talk to because we realize that yeah, it could be awkward as a 16-year-old to go talk and say that. So, what about if you could talk to a friend that had accurate information and that could help you navigate that with a trusted adult and get the help you need? So that's also a way that you can think about being intentional in your communities is who are the young leaders that can also be an easier person to be safe talking to. Yeah, that's one way that we also I work for the No More program that's underneath Pointland Menazarin University. And we try to teach the students how to be peer-to-peer upstanders, is what we call them, where they can say something that they see something in a friend. Because maybe the parents are too busy, maybe grandma is just at that age where she just doesn't see the signs, right? And so we also that's how we empower empower students is to be able to be able to uh let them see the signs, how to have the conversation, how to stay curious, um, and not sensationalize or glamorize what's happening, but actually see it as a form of danger, and then go to the right, safe, and trusted adult so that they're able to say something to someone to help that person. That's an important piece, it's like taking out the normaliz the normalization of things, like even the word pimp, you know, that has usually a positive connotation. Like we talked about like Yeah, exactly. You're doing big things, it's cooler, it's nicer. Um, but really we know it's a trafficker or buyers of sex and calling them Johns. Anyone can be a John, a friendly person. Yeah, you know, but they're sex buyers exactly. There we go, like the seriousness of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's partly too when you hear a lot of stories of why it is kind of harder to s even stop doing it if you are being trafficked. Because I know I've read stories and stuff, and it happens it will happen for a while, and people are like, Well, why didn't you just leave if it was so bad? Why do you think some of the reasons are that people don't just leave when they're like, Oh, he hit me? I think the number one reason why, and I'm dealing with this now, with dealing with some clients, um, is that it's one way to make a lot of money, right? It's just one way to get some bread. And um you you can't I can't I have a young girl sitting across from me who's 19 years old, who is you know young, thriving, and within herself, and she's like, Ebony, I don't want to make $30 an hour. And that's that's not even minimum wage in San Diego. Minimum wage in San Diego is almost $18. So it's like she's like, I don't even want to make $30 an hour. Like, I want to make I want to be able to buy me a car. We live in San Diego, I have to pay for my registration, I have to do this, I have to do that. And this is the quickest way to be able to make the money. And like, I have to take care of my kids, and it's like a lot of them because they don't control their own money, it's like they don't have a savings, they don't have any, they don't have any form of how to budget or how to take care of bills or how to keep things in order so that they don't fall off, right? And so for them, that's the fastest, quickest way to make some money. And if they could do it without a trafficker, some of them do it without. Like, I have young girls who were trafficked or did have a pimp or maybe was sexually abused as a child or there was something that happened to them when they were younger, and now they're in their 20s and 30s, and they're still working and they're doing their thing and they're still telling me the same thing. Like, I don't want to do that. And I that's a valid reason. Like, I can't I can't take that away from anybody is that this is a way that for you to make your money, right? And so I think that's one way um because kids get to experience there's all I won't say that everything is all bad, I think that's another thing that parents and the community miss du miss talks to our students or our teens, make it seem so dark and so gory and so so horrible and so dangerous from like oh they're gonna do these bad things too, but like you can't forget to tell them like there are good times, like there are times that these kids will go out and they'll buy and have things that they've never bought and had and see things that they've never seen before. And then there's a side where there's some kids who never get to experience that. But I'm speaking for the ones that I support, the ones that I see within my community, is that they get to get out here and they get to buy certain things and experience certain things, and once they get a taste of it, it's like I don't want to go back to what I have. I want to go back into the group home. I don't want to go back into the group home where the staff is being mean to me and you know not not treating me fairly or have their favorites or you know, I have to be reminded about about my mother being an addict because I'm in juvenile hall and whatever's happening, right? It's like they don't want to go back to that life. So I think that's another reason that keeps them going back. It's like um the opportunities that come with it, unfortunately, even though it may be choice of no choices and it may be negative some negative impacts that's happening, there are things still money. Yeah, there's still money there, right? There's still opportunity, and you can't tell a kid that comes from almost nothing um or a kid that has lacks opportunity that they can't go that direction, right? Um so we just try to encourage and try to get them to see other goals, their wives, and you know what do they want to do long term, long what makes them happy, you know, what's gonna improve. Money isn't everything, right? I think that's hard in the society that we live in where we can see billionaires getting praised for oh we I mean our president, all of the things that he does, but then it's still like, oh, okay, well, yeah, I got money. So many people, when they have a bad character thing happen to them and they get canceled for bad character, the their people that support them are like, well, it's just y'all just hate him because he got more money than you know. It's like, no, we need to get back to caring about character more than we care about money. And I think it's society is kind of to blame why a lot, not whole hard ho wholeheartedly, of course, but a lot of it is just like when we worship money to that extent, it's like okay, well, if we can do anything to get money, then that's more important than character. I would say other reasons also would be danger. Um, they may feel like maybe if they have kids, the trafficker or the pimp's gonna go after them, um, or their family, or hurt their family, or you know, do something to is to shame their image, like we were speaking about earlier, right? And like that whole like revenge porn type of thing and um all those type of things happening, I think makes people be like, no, I'm not, I can't, and I I can't get out of this because like what's gonna happen. And then what do I do if I've been doing this for 15 years? Like this is all I know. Like I I can't just get out there and just get a job, and I've been in this since I was 15 years old, and now I'm 25 and I don't have my high school diploma, I don't have a college education, I don't I don't have any strategies, like I got hustle, I might have mouthpiece, but like what am I gonna do? Right, and there's not a lot of support out there um to grab people from where they're at and really usher them into a new lit way of life. Yeah, I was gonna ask, what do you think the the biggest barriers of getting out are in support for sure? Especially it's I don't know this, but do you think that as you get older in it too, there's probably less support, right? Yes. So in San Diego and particularly, most of the services are cut off at the age of 24. What kind of services before 24 are there? Um, so their housing spare services, case management services where they can help you get IDs and find a place to live and get a job and do job interviews with you resumes with you. I didn't even think about be able to like help you register in school, get a bus pass, and just learn how to navigate life, right? Um help you get into counseling and maybe reconnect with rekindle with your family and like that that are healthy and felt help find community and like there's all kinds of uh resources that they provide to people up until the age of 24. Legal support. There are some agencies that will provide support beyond 24, but then there's only certain things that they can do for you. Um where in my experience in working with victims um or survivors is that they don't even really their frontal lobe is not even fully developed yet, and they don't even realize danger is not dangerous to them until they're like 28, 29 years old, and they're like finally like, okay, wait a minute, I think I need to slow down, wait a minute, I think this might be dangerous, maybe this might you know risk my life. Where at like 19, 20, 21, 22, they're like, Hey, let's go ahead and turn up on our guy thinking about me at night. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing, like some of the stuff that you know. Yeah, yeah. So I I feel like that's the that's the hard part about the finding resources for survivors is like how do you just cut it off at 24? Like what? Like, what do you mean? That's yeah. Especially when it all started with isolation. So it's like now my people, exactly, and then however long you've been in this relationship or this situation, it's years, you know, the rift has grown, and then when you finally decide to leave, then it's like, oh now you're coming back to us, what happened? So even that alone sometimes is like the I told you so, or the you know, if you go back, then don't we're done, and you know, so it's really important, even as friends, to really keep being there, really, you know, giving that person the time it takes. Because we know on average it takes about seven times before a person can lose, leave an abuser. So if someone's listening to this and they're 24, 25, 26, and they're in the situation where they haven't been trafficked and they want to get out, what are some things that you suggest that they do to start that process? I would encourage them to first get involved with some services that are local within their community. Um, especially like if they have a family justice center or they have um drop-in centers, like to make it not so obvious that they're going to get and seek help. Oh, I'm thinking about becoming um a cosmetologist, right? And they want to be able to go to school. So then and then the trap if the trafficker allows that, because a lot of girls have more freedom than they may, than people may know. Um so if they if I was saying this is a young girl who is being trafficked and she realizes it now and she has some freedom, she's allowed to go out on her own, she's able to do certain things, like take those two to three hours and go to counseling, go to therapy if you're open to it. Um, go to um different departments and different case management like services and see if you can get support in that way. Try to find a community that's near you. I did I say and support all survivor-led, more most survivor-led organizations. Um there's like a company in San Diego right now where she's up and down um Southern California, but Telita Coffee is founded by Jenny Barber. She's a survivor and and speaker, um, but she's she started that organization. Now she hires survivors as um in warehouse to work in warehouses and do different things in different orders, put in different orders for her. Um, but that's putting them in a place of employment, but also putting around someone who understands what they've been through. Um but I would say definitely connecting with uh local resources that where they're located. Um, first finding a survivor. There's so many of us online that you can reach out to and that you can speak, um, speak to and just have a safe space and know where to go if you need to get housing or if you need a bus pass or if you need, you know, a tra a train ticket to get away. Like um also just connection. Do you find that a lot of girls that come to it really just having someone else that went through it to talk to is really the thing that opens them up to even a new possibility? Especially with our young girls, yeah. I would say I've worked in juvenile halls and I've worked in Las Calinas, and I've worked with girls who've never opened up, but we could see all the signs. Um, and then finally when I said, hey, like I've been there, they heard my story, they heard what I have been through. It was like, wait a minute, like I my story is so aligned with yours, like, wait a minute, so maybe I and then they start to question what they've learned. They start to relearn some of the things that they've learned, and they're like, wait a minute, that is domestic violence, that is abuse. My I did have some childhood trauma. I they start to come into realization, and they're like, wait a minute, I was trafficked. That's how I came into the realization. It wasn't like I just, you know, walked into a building and was like, oh, look, I've been trafficked. It was like learning about after I had children how to take care of my kids, what the difference was between psychological coercion and emotional coercion, and like learning all these different things about myself and about how to parent alone was something that made me realize that wait a minute, I am a survivor of sexual exploitation. Yeah, I think that's so big, is even again with how we were tying it to the movies before, is a lot of times these terms and these types of like, oh that's not me. That actually looking at your life and identifying with something that you probably don't want to identify with is probably really hard. And just hearing someone else say it and then identify as that is probably really powerful for them of like, oh wait, that is it. Yeah. Because it's hard to say that this is me, this has happened to me. I've been trafficked, I've been abused, I am and yeah, I think self-identifying is really hard for that. It's one of the hardest things, unfortunately, which is why statistics are not always a hundred percent, because we know there's a large gap, like you know, we both know people that are involved in the life still, and um they'll never self-identify because there's a there's a form of weakness, I believe, that they believe comes with that. Yeah. Um, like something bad had I had to be weak in some kind of form, but it's like no support. Or even a victim. Like, I don't want to consider myself a victim. Right, exactly. What are some support systems that you feel like are lacking that maybe people in the community might be interested to hear how they could help? I'd say um, especially when it comes to kids, kids a lot of times are vulnerable to the life we talked about, like for survival, basic needs, right? So I think anytime that you can provide some of those basic needs, or you can help or volunteer or donate to someone who provides those basic needs, um, that's a huge way to build the protective factor from a young person being trafficked. If they have things like housing, safe housing, if they have basic, you know, food, water, hygiene products that they need. Um, I think that goes a long way, especially when we're thinking about how young people are recruited and how they become vulnerable. If I can like what I wear, I'm not gonna have someone like, oh, I could take you shopping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Donating for sure. Um, anytime we use their gentle goods definitely is a one way to provide support. Um, I would say like handbags to be able to put hygiene products in and give it out to the young people that may come through drop-in centers, for example. Um you say drop-in centers, you mentioned that twice. What's a drop-in center? So a drop-in center is a location that a youth can go to or uh someone between age in San Diego, between age of twelve and twenty four. Um, there's one particularly in San Diego called eye care, and it's um a place where they can get immediate food sometimes, um, they can get some clothing, they can get support or get connected with local resources to be able to get housing, um, to be able to find a job, build a resume. Um, there's like arts and crafts classes, there's different types of topics being discussed, like healthy relationships and boundaries, boundaries, yeah. Um there's family help. You can even volunteer for like family um family like medical centers and things like that. They have different types of drives where you can raise money and do different types of friends givings and donate to local organizations. Because here in the state of California, we have what we call um AB 1227, which is a legislation that was written back in 2009, where 19, I'm sorry, that um re not requires but recommends at this point, recommends that all California schools teach their students about um sex trafficking so that they're between grades of seventh grade to 12th grade and staff and students, right? So going into your local schools, letting the schools know that hey, I would like for my students to be able to learn um different ways to keep themselves safe and warning signs around just education, awareness. What do I do as a parent? Can I have a parent group or parent circle here at at school and be able to teach the other parents about what I signs I've seen in my local neighborhood, like um things like that. There's a lot, there's a lot that people can do to stand in the gap. I always like to say um, you know, there's so many things and not one person can do it all. And I think when you hear all of this evil and there's you know, you're so quick to want to do something, do what's in your lane, you know, and I think that also is like where you could bring the most magic is if you're into something already, um, how you can use that talent or that skill or you know, that thing that you're really good at to help someone in in that lane. Like if you're a barber, you can help with haircuts, or you know, like you, you have a platform of a podcast and you're talking about the issue. So I think you know, whatever you can do in your lane, there's always something you know that you can be intentional about helping. Yeah, I I mean I like that too, because I feel like it's like you don't have to switch up your whole identity exactly to help. Yeah. Um, I just wanted to ask one more thing, kind of going back to survivors of this. Are do you think that there are any myths that are actively harmful to survivors? I think that people believing that um violence has to happen in order for trafficking to be a trafficking situation is a myth. Uh thinking that it only happens to women is a myth. Um, thinking that it only happens to a certain kind of person is a myth. Um that for San Diego in particular, because we're by the border, that you know, they think that 90% of the people that's trafficked are either going to Mexico or being brought from Mexico. That's completely not true. Over 70% of the people trafficked to San Diego are US citizens. Um I would say um trafficking doesn't just hide, it's in plain sight, it's in it's everywhere. Anybody can be trafficked and not just you know one particular person. Um that is not always strange or danger. Sometimes it's that that kind, generous, sweet person, um, rather whether male or female. I'm gonna wrap this, but I want to ask just one last question. What's one thing that you would want every woman to walk away knowing from this episode? That's a good one. I'd say I would want every woman to know that they're not alone, that there are supporters, that there are people that have had their same concerns, their same fears, their same should I not, and um that you're not alone, that there's support out there, that you know, there is an opportunity for a different life, and that um yeah, you're not alone. That's my main thing. Um I would say I want women to know that they're still baddies despite what you know they may feel inside because of certain mistakes or choices. Um, that what a real baddie is is someone who is honest with themselves and loves on themselves and stands on business um and really puts themselves first. And sometimes um that means, you know, knowing that there's community out there to to wrap around you, that you have a safe space to be able to let go of some of the things that may be holding you back. Um and that just like Marissa said, you're not alone. There's many of us out there that can speak to you and want to support you and stand behind you. Well, thank you guys for coming here. Thank you. And I really hope you're walking away from this episode feeling more aware, but also more empowered. Because the point of conversations like this is not to leave you feeling scared or overwhelmed, but to help you see things more clearly and to know that there are ways to protect yourself, your kids, and the people around you. And also to remind you that even though systems are slow, people don't have to be. So if this is something that resonates with you or something that you want to go deeper on, I do want to invite you to go into the circle community. There are going to be resources there, places to go if you or someone you know needs help, ways to stay informed, and a space to have more real conversations around this. And also, if you're listening to this and someone popped into your mind, a friend, your sister, your cousin, your brother, someone who might need to hear this, send it to them. Don't overthink it, just share the episode. Because sometimes awareness doesn't come from something big, it comes from someone you trust sending you something and saying, hey, listen to this. So join the circle community, keep the conversation going, and share this with the people that you care about. And as always, thank you for being here. I will see you on the next episode of Occasionally Perfect.