Occasionally Perfect

Why Success Never Feels Like Enough (And How to Change It)

• Season 2 • Episode 15

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Why High-Achieving People Never Feel Like They're Doing Enough | Burnout, Perfectionism & Nervous System Healing with Felicia Brown

Why is it so hard to celebrate your accomplishments?

Why do so many ambitious people hit one goal, only to immediately focus on the next one?

And why does resting sometimes feel more uncomfortable than working?

In this episode of Occasionally Perfect, Lexsi Lewis sits down with licensed professional counselor, trauma-informed speaker, and emotional regulation coach Felicia Brown for a powerful conversation about burnout, perfectionism, productivity based self-worth, and what it actually means to heal your nervous system.

If you've ever felt like you're constantly chasing success but never feeling satisfied, this episode explains why. Felicia shares how many high-achieving women unknowingly tie their worth to productivity, how chronic stress keeps the nervous system stuck in survival mode, and why overworking, people-pleasing, and perfectionism are often protective patterns, not personality traits.

Together, Lexsi and Felicia explore what it means to move from survival driven success to self-led success, why celebrating yourself can feel so uncomfortable, how ADHD and anxiety often overlap in women, and practical ways to begin regulating your nervous system without abandoning your ambition.

Whether you're an entrepreneur, working professional, parent, creative, or simply someone who always feels like you should be doing more, this conversation will help you understand yourself with greater compassion while giving you tools to build a healthier relationship with achievement.

Your worth is not determined by your productivity. Healing isn't about becoming less ambitious it's about creating a nervous system that allows you to pursue your goals without constantly feeling like you have to earn your value.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a woman in your life who is carrying too much, working too hard, or constantly feeling like she's falling behind. You never know who needs to hear this conversation.

Connect with Felicia Brown

Instagram • TikTok • Facebook: @FeliciaBrownLPC

Join the Occasionally Perfect Community


If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow Occasionally Perfect on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Leaving a rating and review helps more people discover these conversations.

#Burnout #MentalHealth #HighAchievingWomen #Perfectionism #SelfWorth #NervousSystem #EmotionalRegulation #ADHDWomen #TraumaHealing #Anxiety #Therapy #PersonalGrowth #SelfCompassion #WomenEmpowerment #HealingJourney #WorkLifeBalance #OccasionallyPerfect

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SPEAKER_01

Hey, it's your girl Lexi Lewis and welcome to Occasionally Perfect. You know that feeling when you finish something that you worked really hard on, and instead of feeling good about it, your brain immediately pulls up a list of everything you didn't accomplish. No moment to breathe, no pat on the back, just straight to the criticism. That's my life. And honestly, for a long time, I wore it like a badge of honor. I told myself it meant I have high standards, that I care, that I'm driven. But here's what I've started to realize: there's a difference between healthy drive and constantly being at war with yourself. There's a difference between working hard because you love what you're building and grinding because some part of you believes that you're only as worthy as your last win, or you're terrified of what it means if you stop. If you've ever felt like you can't fully enjoy your success because you're already focused on where you fell short, if you're always in fix-it mode, if it feels uncomfortable and celebrating yourself feels almost foreign, you're not broken and you're not alone. In today's episode, it might be one of the most important conversations you listen to this year. Because my guest is Felicia Brown, a licensed professional counselor, trauma-informed speaker, and emotional regulation coach who helps high-achieving women break free from burnout, overthinking, and productivity-based self-worth. Felicia's path to this work is deeply personal. After 15 years in education, witnessing the mental health toll on both educators and students, and then adopting three children with complex trauma, she pursued a second master's degree in counseling and built a practice rooted in something most productivity culture completely ignores: nervous system healing. She helps women understand that the overachieving, the perfectionism, the people pleasing, it's not a personality flaw. It's a pattern and it can change. Felicia, I want to thank you for being here, and I'm so excited for this conversation.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01

I'm really excited for this conversation. Ever since I did our first talk, I was like, ooh, okay. The ladies need this one. So I honestly, before we even really get into everything, we are talking to a specific kind of person today. And I don't think that initially they'll identify as it. So we are talking to high achieving women. Yeah. But I think with that, so many people that are high achieving want more all the time that they don't even identify as that. 100% agree. How would you identify a high achieving woman?

SPEAKER_00

So I think when we talk about that initially, people are like, oh, unless I'm a CEO or own my own company or have all of this success, I must not be high achieving. And if you're somebody that thinks that way, you probably are a high achieving woman. And so, really, how I define it is women who have goals, have dreams and desires, and who work their butts off to try and reach those things. And regardless of what the profession is, I think you can be a high achieving woman in any profession. It doesn't have to be like that stereotypical corporate role. You can be a high achieving woman in nursing, teaching, in an office. When really what it comes down to is it's women that don't know how to quit, don't know how to say no, who always keep pushing, wanting more, will say yes to almost anything, even at the expense of themselves, which is a lot of the work that I do is helping women recognize that. And then also, how do we course correct so that you are not constantly running on empty and burned out all the time?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because it's I love that definition because again, like you said, so many people are like, oh, I'm not a CEO, I'm not a boss. Yeah. And then when you're like striving, moving the goalpost constantly, you're like, I don't know, that's because who I'm going to be is a boss. So who I am, who I'm going to be is that. But who I am now is just like, I'm getting through it.

SPEAKER_00

And even for these women, when they hit the goal, the goal moves. Because once you've hit it, okay, I did that thing. That's not worth celebrating. If I did it, anybody can do it. So I've got to go on to the next thing and the next thing. And there's never a time where they celebrate themselves or their achievements because there's this really negative narrative in there that is, if I did it, it must be easy. Or if I did it, anybody could do it. So I need to keep pushing and then it'll finally be enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What do you think is happening with women when they are accomplishing so much, getting everything done, but they're going to bed and they're like, it's not enough.

SPEAKER_00

I think truly, when we are talking about it, it is a whole body problem. And what I mean by that is not that they themselves are the problem, because they're not. So many women come to me and are like, okay, fix me. What do I got to do to fix this? When in reality, it's not that they are the problem. I always say that the problem is the problem. And what I mean by that is we have lived in a society, asks women particularly to work as if that's their only focus, but then also to be a wife as if that's their only focus. And if they have children, to be a mom as if they don't have a job.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And it is impossible for women to live up to that standard. We weren't meant to operate that way. And it's not that I'm saying, oh, if you have a job and are a mom, something was always gonna fall. What I'm saying is we have never given women the credit for doing all of the things. And so what happens then over time is that the nervous system learns that in order to be safe, I need to constantly be moving and achieving and working. And as the nervous system learns that, and that's really like this subconscious part of your brain, what happens is when you then go to rest, that feels dangerous.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's very hard on vacations.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And so even when you're quote unquote relaxing, your brain is going a mile a minute and it doesn't feel good. Yeah. Because for your body, that feels foreign. And the brain really loves predictability. Yes. And it loves safety. And if you have worked for years, and sometimes this even happens in childhood, especially in our American society, we tend to praise children for high performance. And so they very quickly learned through a lot of this messaging that I get good positive attention when I achieve something good.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so the messaging is your performance is what gives you value. Not who you are as a human being already has value regardless of your performance.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like I have to earn that, and the value. I have to be to me, the crazy thing to think about is going back to vacationing. And speaking for myself, I've always been an entrepreneur or a freelancer. So I'm constantly, there's always something to do. And just moving to Chicago recently and having more friends that are in corporate, and they're done at five or six. And I'm like, you could just be done. I had to make a schedule of just be done at six, and I can just watch TV. I'm a and it doesn't feel it doesn't feel right. Even when I'm watching TV, I should be doing something else. And part of me is okay, I'm a solo parent, so I want her to see I'm working and I'm getting stuff done. But then it really feels weird to just not do something, especially when you know that there are so many things that can still be done.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And you had even said, oh, when I'm watching TV, I feel like I should be doing something. How many women are like, okay, I'll watch a show while I fold all the laundry, right? Or while I sort the clothes or while I match the socks. It's I'll reward myself by watching something, but I'm really doing all of these chores and these tasks that have to be done.

SPEAKER_01

Because again, what you said too is that we don't get praise for doing all the things, but we get reprimanded for not finishing something.

SPEAKER_00

Correct. Because then you're lazy. Yeah. And laziness, particularly in our culture, is seen as a moral failure. Yeah. And a lot of times women will come to me and they'll either say to themselves, if I stop doing this, then I'll be perceived as lazy, or they'll say to me, I am just so exhausted. I've become lazy and I can't do anything.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I often say to women, laziness doesn't really exist for you. And they'll be like, no, you don't understand. I have 30 loads of laundry. And I'll say, but that's not laziness. It's exhaustion. It's being so worn out and stretched thin that you no longer have the capacity to do those things. That is your body literally screaming at you to take a break. And instead of taking a break and being okay resting, their body is screaming at them to just take a break, to rest and relax. And instead of accepting the fact that they are a human being who requires rest, what do women turn to? Self-shame, self-blame, negative self-talk, right? Something is wrong with me because I am not going 24-7.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I must have become lazy because the idea of working eight to 10 hours and then coming home and working another six hours no longer feels doable. So fix me so that I can perform like I used to perform. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's crazy too because I'm just realizing recently that if someone would ask me about myself, I'm like, oh, I'm amazing. And I actually self-talk publicly great about myself. But again, when I'm not doing something, I'm like, why am I not doing this? And then I have ADHD, and I'm like, why can't I do these simple things? That really takes me down.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I actually have a lot of women that get diagnosed as adults because ADHD does manifest so much differently in girls than boys. And then they come to me and they're like, I have this diagnosis and I guess it makes sense, but like, even wouldn't I have had this my whole life? And like I used to be able to do things. Why can't I do things now? And a lot of times what happens is that for women with ADHD, they also tend to have a lot of anxiety. And growing up, the anxiety kept the ADHD in check. Meaning, I have to get good grades, I have to go to class, I have to perform well, I have to do well on tests, so I have to memorize these things. And that anxiety was so strong that it kept some of the inattentiveness at bay. And what happens then is usually women get diagnosed with anxiety first before the ADHD. And maybe they go to therapy or they get on medication and the anxiety lessens.

SPEAKER_01

So they go.

SPEAKER_00

And then the ADHD comes out in even stronger doses, and they're like, this isn't what is happening. This isn't me. And so even talking about how do we accept that? Like you said, oh, it can really take me down that spiral. How do we work on being kind to yourself knowing that you have this amazing neurodivergent brain and that really is your superpower? Yeah. But society makes us want to be really negative about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it's not even that it's not, I don't even say that it's negative, it's just that it's it's I feel like I could always be doing more. That's it's just it's really that. And it's if someone else can do this, why can't I do it? And having even getting to the place of saying, you know what, it's okay. I can have a minute, it doesn't, I can say it out loud, but I don't feel it. It doesn't feel safe. It's literally like as much as I'm saying it, my body is like, I'm lazy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's what I mean when I talk about the whole body problem, because I truly find that talk therapy, CBT, DBT, some of these things, which I love, it's not the whole picture.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And then you talk to myself all the time and but then like somatic therapy, which is like that bottom-up working with the body, is also not enough. What is some what is that? So somatic therapy is really all about helping people be in tune with their bodies, recognizing where their body is storing stress, trauma, anxiety, helping us connect. We call it a bottom-up approach of that your body, your nervous system is experiencing or has experienced some really traumatic or hard things, and the body kind of holds on to that. And somatic therapy is also wonderful. But what I have found is you really need both. We need to understand how to connect with our body, where our body is storing stress, how to recognize that, and also how to really recognize these negative thoughts that we have, a lot of negative self-talk, and combat both at the same time to really create what I like to say is safety felt in the body. So you said, I can tell myself, okay, I'm gonna sit here and watch this episode, but it doesn't feel safe. And so we've got to get women to a point where doing the things that they need to do as part of basic human survival, yeah, feels safe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Going back, we were talking about how productivity is placed so much into our self-worth, but how do we get self-worth outside of what our what we're creating or what we're doing?

SPEAKER_00

And so to say to you, and just tell me how this feels if you were to never achieve anything ever again, would you be okay knowing that you had dignity and worth just as you are? I don't think so. Like, like where does that feel in your body? Because I saw you turn away from me. Like, nope, it's a subconscious thing, right? No, I'm not okay with that. Like that doesn't feel right in my body. I'm distancing, even from your body language. I'm distancing myself from what she's saying. No, that makes me like cry. No, what? And yet, the idea of just being you doesn't feel like enough, even for your nervous system.

SPEAKER_01

I honestly, I don't even I just feel like that's society though, too. Absolutely. Animals are the only things that gets I me and my friends talk about this all the time that it's just not fair that we're the only mammals that gotta go to work. Every other living thing got its shelter, gets its food, gets to be with its friends.

SPEAKER_00

But us, no, like I I need a house, I gotta pay for it, I gotta and so it's not realistic to say to women I'm never gonna do anything. The difference, and it's very nuanced, is that even though you know you're going to continue to work and to achieve and to be successful, the difference is that you no longer feel that you must do those things in order to feel worthy of rest, self-compassion, self-love, love from others, that you are then shifting from I have to do these things because these are the things that make me who I am, to I am doing these things because in the moment, that's what feels good to me. And that if it stops feeling good, yeah, I'm okay not doing that anymore. I'm okay walking away from that.

SPEAKER_01

I could say I I definitely am on that one though, because I definitely believe in moving and purpose. And if something doesn't, if something feels off, oh, we gotta pivot, we gotta just nails.

SPEAKER_00

And that gut feeling, right? That's your nervous system. And so these gut feelings are real. And what happens is people are always like, oh, it's I just it's my intuition or it's this gut feeling. What we don't realize is that humans are so good at recognizing patterns, particularly if you are a human that has been through a traumatic childhood, a traumatic relationship, or just any point in your life where safety and security wasn't guaranteed. Your nervous system starts to recognize people's behaviors, the way that people interact, even from the how they sigh, the way their eyes move, things that you wouldn't consciously be able to pick up on, but you get the vibe. Yeah. Those bad vibes, that's your brain recognizing patterns and knowing that in the past, when this person did this set of behaviors, that was not a safe person. And so the nervous system really is just this amazing part of us that really in modern medicine, we are just starting to understand how it works. And so getting the nervous system to move from that fight or flight into feeling safe, no matter what we achieve, is really the work that I do with women individually and in the group setting.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's interesting you say dating and just in relationships, because one thing that is just recently happened to me is just dating someone that's actually consistent. I wouldn't necessarily think of not being able to depend on someone consistently, like a trauma, but it's kind of is like a especially in a relationship, because if the goal of the relationship is long-term stability, living together, parenting together, getting married, etc., you need to be able to rely on that person and have this stability which creates safety for your brain and your nervous system.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm like, oh my goodness. My brain's never safe. And so when you are a high achieving woman in modern America, you're often stuck in fight, flight, fawn, or freeze. But there's no bear, there's no lion to run from, there's no attacker to attack. And so your body doesn't how do I fight that? Right? How do I get myself to not have this fight or flight response because I have to give a presentation or because I have a corporate deadline?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

There's nobody for me to fight, there's nothing for me to run from, but the nervous system is giving you the same response as if you're in the woods being chased by a bear. Yeah. And so when we then quiet the nervous system by doing more work or achieving more things, that's us reinforcing that the only way for us to be safe is to keep achieving. Yeah. And then that leads to burnout. Yes. And then women are like, what's wrong with me? I used to be fine.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I feel like there's also a difference between I'm tired versus no, I'm burnt out. Yeah. I know a lot of people, myself included, that will take six months off or a year off because it's like I literally can't. To the point where everything starts to be too much. The laundry is too much. I don't want to get dressed today. It's just burnt out. Is is and so it's how do we how do we stop before we get to the point of I can't do anything now?

SPEAKER_00

Because I Because by then we've got a whole lot more work to do. That's why we take the year off. And then when, and for your listeners that are like, I'd love to take a year off, but that's not feasible for me. What do I do? So one of the things I ask women to do a lot is to really take a look at your schedule. Take a look at all of your commitments. When you said yes to those things, they all felt like good things. They might all be good things, but that doesn't mean they're all good things for you to do at the same time.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

What are areas that you could cut back? Do we need to serve on all of these committees? Do I need to be part of all of these organizations? Can I be a part of them, but maybe not be on the board for everything or in a leadership position in these organizations? Right. And a lot of times women will look at their schedule and be like, there's nothing I can cut. And then we really have to take a good hard look at why do you feel that you need to be involved in these things? What is the fear?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Is I just think also thinking just the guilt that comes with it when you finally like, okay, I'm not gonna do this as much. And then you feel so guilty. I pulled away from doing so much school stuff because it was just too much. Yeah, you don't have the capacity. But I don't, I every time something comes up, my daughter's like, you know, but you didn't do this. And I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_00

I always joke that I'm really great at sending in paper products, paper plates, snack. Please, please don't ask me to be the party chaperone. Yeah, which is hilarious because I did spend quite a few years in education, but now I'm like, I will send in whatever you ask for. Yeah, please do not make me come and be the chaperone of the party. And I used to feel really guilty about that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00

But at the end of the day, I'm not happy. I dread going. Yeah, I can put on a brave face, but I don't like being there. And so, how many times are we doing things like that? Because if we're saying yes to something, we don't often think of it this way, but we are automatically saying no to something else because there is only so much time in the day. And no matter how amazing you are and how organized and how great you are at time management, you only have so much to give. And that's not a fault.

SPEAKER_01

It's so I'm having such an epiphany right now. Because my daughter gave away all her pencils and she doesn't have any pencils now. And I'm like, I'm not buying pencils for two days at school. And her friend has pencils from that she gave her. And I was like, tell her to give them to you. And she's like, no, I can't. I don't wanna give it to her. And I'm sitting here telling her, like, you always gotta make sure it's are you okay? She's like, she's gonna get mad. And I'm like, are you sad because you don't have a pencil? And she's yeah, I'm like, then you have to make sure you're not sad before you make someone else not sad. And I'm just hearing you say this, and I'm like, I'm gonna go there and be like, no. Oh my god. You tell your kids so easily, but it's but when it's ourselves, it's a lot more difficult.

SPEAKER_00

No, but it's like I'm supposed to be able to do it. And where does that belief come from? Right? I'm supposed to be able to do things. Yeah. And women really have that deep-seated core belief of I should be able to do it. I should just be able to get up and do it. Yeah, I should be able to do the dishes and the laundry and run the kids and work my job and work out and eat healthy and drink all the water and and that's a good boss.

SPEAKER_01

You can do all the things.

SPEAKER_00

When in reality, yeah, we're just setting ourselves up for failure.

SPEAKER_01

I see it a lot in society in general, though, too, because we're just less into having community with I can Uber this, I can get food sent to me, I can get my groceries sent to me. Someone picked me up from the airport and it was so weird. They're like, Yeah, I'll come get you. I'm like, you'll come and get me. Because it's just I can't think of inconveniencing someone else, even though it's just a friend, whatever, that to inconvenience you and to come get me because I can pay for this, I can get something to do it. And I think with all of the ability with tech and all the stuff now, we are so slow to depend on other people. And so we're like, I should be able to be self-sufficient.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we are more connected than we've ever been through technology, and yet we are more isolated in our day-to-day lives than we've ever been.

SPEAKER_01

I want to go to COVID really quick because I feel like there was something crazy that happened because there was so much uncertainty. And at that time, I've I am an actress, and pretty much if you're creative, you're always used to like not having stability. It's like every time you're hired, you're automatically fired, you're looking for something. And I know corporate people were probably going more crazy than us because there was uncertainty, but there was even a heightened level of uncertainty because it's like this isn't opened, this isn't here, and then everything was like out of our control. Have you noticed a shift since then that I feel like we haven't came back from all the way of the isolation, too?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And when I say, oh, COVID was 2020, that was six years ago. Yeah, that's insane. That doesn't feel six years ago. Two years, maybe at max, right? And I think that we still are really underestimating the impacts of a global pandemic. I still say it randomly all the time. The world was shut down. Yes. It's take out the long-term health impacts that we may not understand. I'm not even talking about that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

The shift to how we had to do daily life. And not just in our state, not even just our country, literally the world. And having children who their first experience into community was isolation.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And how that kind of shapes them even now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because my daughter was three, four during COVID, and it was so bad because she at prior to COVID, she was a little kid that would be at Target. She's like, Mom, I'm gonna go show my friend this. And I'm like, You've never seen that little girl. She's like, Yeah, it's my best friend. And she was going from she's running up to everyone to no, baby, you can't talk to them. It was, it was, and then people were like, No. And she's like, Why is everyone doesn't want I can't talk to them? I can't explain to a three-year-old, oh, there's this deadly disease going on.

SPEAKER_00

And I don't know about your kiddo now, but my kids who are junior hires, they will hear things on the news or see something pop up on like an ad or a story about a new disease. And instead of being like, Oh, that's not gonna be a big deal, it's fine, their brain goes to we're gonna be shut down again. Yeah, no, and even still, those of us that lived many years before COVID, I don't think that's where our brain goes. It's a fear, but it's not an automatic, yeah. No, and so I think with being so isolated and told this is the only way to be safe, and with the germs and things, absolutely, I get that. But it was almost as if we've now lost the ability to trust other humans, yeah. And I think this is really playing out in a lot of ways. Not government. I was just thinking, like, when you think of the in our country, it is no wonder that everybody feels a little bit unstable. Yeah, a little bit unsafe.

SPEAKER_01

Since COVID happened, I feel like I don't know if the rules would out the window, and it's not even it's it feels like almost in every category, things are just way different. Things are just way different. Inflation's increasing crazy amounts, and then our politics are not they're not it doesn't make you feel safe. Yeah, like these are the people that are responsible for everything, and there was just a certain way that everyone handled things, and after the world shut down, then everyone came back and it was just making up stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Truly stuck in survival mode. Yeah, I can't care about you, or I can't care about your needs. Yeah, because I have to care about my own needs and the needs of the people that live in my house. And so I feel like it really diminished a lot of empathy and compassion. Yeah. Because we go from viewing the world as mostly safe and mostly a good place to really having the lens be the world is pretty dangerous.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it's unsafe. And I need to be on guard all the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I think too, because my income has increased significantly and I don't feel any more comfort than when I made like $40,000. It's just everything keeps going up.

SPEAKER_00

So I gotta keep making more money because and then when we think about what makes us feel safe, it's usually what can I control? What can I do to fix the situation? Right? How can I solve my problem? And so this again goes right back into why women work tirelessly all the time because that's something they can control and it's something they can do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I feel in my head, I always thought that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00

I should focus on what I can do, but then the heaviness of that becomes the the problem comes when we are masking the emotion by trying to solve a problem. Yes. It's really hard for most people to sit with their thoughts and to sit with their feelings. It's the feelings for more than a minute or two.

SPEAKER_01

It's the feelings. Because I even with my therapist when I talk to her, I'm one of those people that's always self-analyzing. So I'm like, okay, I know this is what it's going on. And then people are like, okay, it's great. Uh you can say it. You're very intellectual. Yeah, but okay, but feel it. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yep. Because I can think all the thoughts, I can look at all the research, I can understand what's happening in my brain, why I have anxiety or why I'm feeling overwhelmed, but that's only part of it. Yes. That's the top part. Yeah. That bottom part is can I sit with this really uncomfortable feeling of what if everything isn't gonna be okay? Yeah. Yeah. And how do I handle that if it's not?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like my curiosity is just what are you supposed to do besides cry to fill your emotions? Because I think I am an embracer of crying because oh my god, the you feel the stress, whatever that tension is come out with your tears. So um, team cry. But I feel like that's the easy thing to do after that. But what else do I do with my emotions besides cry? I don't want to only.

SPEAKER_00

And usually by that point, it's to the point where you are so stressed, yes, that's what needs to happen. Yeah. So this is something that I start with a lot of the women that I work with, and it's going to sound very simple.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

It's going to be way more difficult to actually practice it. So what I say to women is can you take five minutes? No phone, no earbuds, no TV, no noise, nothing technology. If you can get outside in nature, awesome. If you can't, it's okay. Can you take five minutes and just sit and scan over your body and notice? Am I keeping any tension anywhere? Does anything feel tight? Does anything feel weird? Is there anything coming up for me as I'm just sitting here? Can I take a few deep breaths, let them out, and just see what comes up? Is it joy? Is it anger? Is it frustration? Is it all of those things? Noticing your thoughts, not analyzing them. Just notice what comes in.

SPEAKER_02

Not analyzing it.

SPEAKER_00

Not analyzing it, just noticing. Oh. That interaction with that person on the corner the other day, that really did bother me. Didn't realize that upset me. Notice, let it go. Right? Oh, I know that I was really frustrated because I had to spend an hour and a half in traffic today. Where does that frustration come from? Maybe I need to go back to that. Notice, let it go. What am I feeling right now? Taking a big deep breath. It is really hard to do that for most people for five years.

SPEAKER_01

It's really hard for the let it go part because I automatically go in to fix it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because then you're in control of something versus your body just Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Hearing you say let it go, I'm like, no, I would go into, you know what? I just need to be calmer. I need to do this.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm glad you brought that up because a regulated nervous system does not mean that you are always calm. And sometimes people think, oh, if I have big emotions or big feelings about something, then I must not be regulated. That's not true.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

A regulated nervous system means that no matter what is happening or what your feelings are, you are ultimately in the driver's seat of those feelings and you feel safe and empowered to handle whatever comes your way. With if your house is on fire, you're not gonna be calm. But you're gonna go into action mode and rescue your kid, save what you need to save, knowing that you have the power to do that. Yeah. The difference is it's not always your house that's on fire. It just feels like the world is on fire. Going back to COVID. That's right. And I think it's also really hard for us as women and as Americans to recognize that sometimes we can't fix it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, that sounds terrible.

SPEAKER_00

And that the best thing we can do is be at peace with ourselves, help our especially women, help our children feel safe, feel at peace. And that not fixing it doesn't mean that we don't care. It doesn't mean that we are giving up. It means that we are recognizing that we have the capacity to do what we can do. And that doesn't make us failures.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That makes us human. And our humanness has dignity.

SPEAKER_01

I noticed with self-help books, I had to stop reading them for a while. Because one, they start to all sound the same. Sure. But then you get to the point where it's I'm always fixing something. I always have something to fix. Like, why can't I just be? Yeah. Why can't I just be? And not to say that again, like you said, I don't want to stop growing. I don't want to stop going, but really trying to embrace the person that I am now, trusting that I've done work, that I know that I'm gonna take accountability for things, but I don't need to always heal. I don't always have to think about the thing to fix about me. Again, as you grow, something else comes up, you're like, oh my god, I didn't realize that was going on.

SPEAKER_00

But not every day needs to be a heavily emotion-processing day. Yes. And that's some days it's okay to just be in the moment and live life and know that tomorrow or the next day might be a day where the emotions come up and we need to address it. Yeah. But it's okay to just be. And I agree with you on the self-help books, right? It's always about fixing something. And that's why when women come to me, they're like, just tell me what to do to fix it and I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01

I even my premise of the show originally, I was like, oh, I want to leave, I want everyone to leave with a tangible thing to work on. And then about the third episode, I was like, you know, no, I do want to do that sometimes, but sometimes I just want it to be I feel seen and I feel I feel I can relate to you. So now I have pivoted to I want someone to be able to feel something from it. And yeah, I want a tangible takeaway sometimes. But sometimes it's just a story that makes you feel human and connected. And I think we're really missing that connectedness. But you even saying about empathy has gone out the window. Because how am I gonna feel bad for you if I can't even feel bad about myself?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think that is particularly in this idea of kind of we have knowledge everywhere. You can read the books, you can watch the TikToks, you can attend the webinars. If you want knowledge about something, it's out there. Yeah. The difference is the connection doesn't automatically come with the knowledge. And when we are talking about doing the truly deep work of healing a nervous system, of helping someone move from a place of I must achieve in order to be considered enough. Not great, but just enough. That can't happen in isolation. I can give you all of the information. But if you were to just watch that on a video, there might be parts of it that you identify with, right? Hopefully, people listening to this podcast are like, oh, I that's me. I feel seen, right? But to truly heal, we need other people to work on that co-regulation.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I say this, I've noticed it in dating my last couple years because you should do a year or two and not talk to anyone and do all the inner work and do all the stuff. I'm like, yeah, but if my issue is relationships, then I have to be in relationships with people.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's the same thing I think of learning to speak a new language. I might know all of the vocabulary words, yeah, but stick me in a situation where people only speak those those words. And and in with the different slang and everything else, I can't do that. We're not just talking about food today.

SPEAKER_01

We're talking about the not to switch to the thing without Yeah, I see that in relationships so much because it's like I can't learn to trust people if there's no one to trust. And I think that that is a missing piece too, because it's like I can only I can heal, I'm like, oh okay. I know people can be good and I can say it all day, but in practice, and do I really believe that?

SPEAKER_00

When you're in another situation where somebody isn't trustworthy, what does that do? Yeah, how do you handle that differently? It that is also a really big part of growth.

SPEAKER_01

That's the healing part, is not that I avoid because oh my god, you reminded me, but I just was thinking of so many people when they're saying, Oh, I'm healed, it's because they're just avoiding the situation. Yeah, but real healing is when you act differently in that situation, right? Yeah, yeah. And I think that's such a missing piece because it's just I'm not gonna put up with that, and I don't even do that. And you're just avoiding it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so that's why I don't say to women, just quit your job and everything will be okay. One that's not realistic. That might be. It'd be nice, but but that's not realistic for most people. Yeah, yeah. So, how do we get you to a place of feeling really safe, comfortable, confident, empowered, that no matter what is happening, that you don't have to treat it like a crisis. Yeah. And that's the difference. Because some women really do love what they do. Yeah, they don't want a different career. But it's like the balance is off.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Last night when I was prepping for this episode, I got teary eye because I was reading over how what you talk about, and the hardest thing for me was the celebrating yourself part. Yeah. And I got tear eye because I was thinking, like, when is the last time I celebrate myself? Because I don't even do birthdays. Every birthday, I literally sit and I go over the things that I didn't do for the year that I need to do. I don't have, but I am like my friends' birthdays, oh my god, I like go big for them. But me, I'm like, no, I'm supposed to do this already, I'm supposed to do this already. And I sit with my journal on my birthday, and everyone's always, oh, it's I'm like, no, it's me analyzing and getting aligned. But when I was thinking about the celebration, I'm like, but no, I don't celebrate it. And then even the last time I can think of me celebrating something was our first episode. This first episode of the show, my friend was here, and we had been planning the podcast for a couple months, and then we filmed the first episode, and she was like, Oh my god, I'm so excited. And I was like, Yeah, but we gotta fix this and we gotta do this and this. She was like, No, but we did. And I'm like, you're right, we did do it. And that acknowledgement of we did it is probably the closest thing I've got to celebrating something.

SPEAKER_00

And your first response was to criticize it. Yeah, I'm like, no, we gotta do this, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. And that's why you needed that other person to say, no, we get to celebrate this because we did this thing.

SPEAKER_01

But it's like, how do you have a beside because I get I feel like me celebrating was literally just acknowledging that it was done? Which that was probably hard for you. It was. I was like, that's why I'm thinking, I'm like, that was celebrating. But is there are there things that you recommend? Is it just acknowledging it? It's a start, but how do you celebrate it and get okay with the idea of this is it, even if it's not what I want it to be?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it doesn't have to be a big celebration.

SPEAKER_01

Like a party, if that's what you want to do, you do even. Like you see on Instagram people were like, you know what, I celebrated some random little nuanced thing, and I'm like, oh my god, that looks so fun for you.

SPEAKER_00

For you, but for me, uh, I see the problems. I could have done better, I could have done more. Yeah. So I think part of it is before you even start doing something, define what success is going to look like. Because in the moment, we're gonna keep moving the finish line. Yes, 100%. We're gonna keep moving that goal. So something I ask a lot of my clients is if they have an event coming up or they have something, what would make that thing a success? And a lot of times people can't tell me initially. Yeah. But if I say, what would make that thing a failure? Boom. Yes, I've got it. Right. So sometimes it's easier. And we start with what would make this weekend a failure. And they kind of list it out. And I say, okay, what would make it a success? And that takes a little bit more. And sometimes it's just doing the thing. And I'll say, okay, so if you accomplish whatever that is, then that means you've been a success. And that's really hard.

SPEAKER_01

It is because it almost feels like the participation trophy where we always are like, we are giving people rewards just for participating. And it I don't like that idea. But I can acknowledge though that not celebrating doing the thing is detrimental as well.

SPEAKER_00

And so if we have a metric by which to define success, then it's harder for us to railroad ourselves into not celebrating that, right? Not impossible because we're really good at convincing ourselves we're not good enough. If we know, okay, this me coming on this episode, right? What would make this a success for me? Getting here, doing the thing, being in a situation that is a little bit uncomfortable. I'm from a teeny tiny small town, right? Getting to your studios, couple hour drive, craziness, whatever. Not canceling, not backing out, feeling empowered to speak what I know is clinically grounded knowledge and true from my lived experience, just doing the thing makes today a success.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Now, would I love for this to be your most popular episode ever? Absolutely, I would love that. Yeah. But I don't need that to happen in order for me to define this as a success. So it is a success because I showed up and I did it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But that is hard. Yeah. I'm gonna try to start. I think I like the idea of actually sitting with what would make this a success in whatever the thing is. But yeah. I mean it's gonna be. But it's hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so what would make it a failure? Yeah. Not doing the thing. Okay. Is there something between failure and success? Because we also tend to live in extremes. Yes. Yes to that. So if success is the mountaintop, what makes it good enough? Because sometimes good enough is good enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Even in the episode and creating it, it's like I have been talking to my friends, but I'm like, oh again, I have a thousand things in my head that I'm like, this need I gotta do all these things. And there is actually a comfort in continuously doing the good enough that kind of makes you feel like, okay, it's okay to not be perfect because the perfectionism is real in high-achieving people. Even with ADHD, too, it's if that's where if I can't do it perfect, I don't want to do it. But then I know that if I don't do it, it's never gonna even get to the perfect that I'm aiming for. And then you go into that cycle of fighting yourself, well, it's not perfect, but I have to do it. And then you never feel the calm of it. And I think the consistency kind of starts to help.

SPEAKER_00

Because it builds your capacity to handle discomfort. Because for so many successful, high achieving people, it is uncomfortable for it to not be perfect. Yes, it is. And we can't sit with that discomfort because we don't have the capacity to do it. To where when you are someone that knows how to regulate, you can recognize okay, this isn't perfect. I there are things I would like to improve, but for now, this is good enough and I'm moving on. Yeah. Being able to tolerate discomfort is part of having a healed, strong nervous system. And that's why sitting with yourself and your thoughts for five minutes is so hard because it's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because we live in a world of constant distractions.

SPEAKER_01

Even I think, because I was like, oh, I do that because I meditate, but meditation is about not thinking. So having it come to you and what do talk about the feeling of it, that's such such a little tweak of what meditation is. Because I'm like, oh, I sit in silence all the time. I can do that. But acknowledging it and then letting it go is the wait a minute part about it.

SPEAKER_00

And letting it go doesn't mean letting it go forever. Yeah. Maybe I pick that thing back up, maybe I don't.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But I'm just going to in this moment be okay not fixing it right now. Again, building our tolerance for discomfort. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So what does it mean to go from survival-driven success to self-led success?

SPEAKER_00

I tell people that when you lay down at night and you're thinking about your day and you're thinking over what you have to do and what got done, etc., if it is survival-driven success, no matter how hard you worked that day or what you did, it will never be enough. You will always be disappointed. You will always think you could have, should have done more.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

If it is true passion-driven, empowered success, you will be content because you know that you will have done the best that you could for that day and your best and what you did was good enough. And you won't constantly be picking yourself apart.

SPEAKER_01

When you do, when you're saying the self-regulating in your nervous system stuff, part of it is just like we've said in this acknowledging that good enough is a thing. But is there another uh tool or observation in ourselves that we can have that would help us get to a point of we're regular regulating ourselves?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So one of the tools I love to use is breath work. And there's lots of different strategies out there for breath work, but one of the best that I have found is something called four, seven, eight breathing. And it's where you breathe in for four seconds, hold your breath for seven, and then breathe out for eight. The reason this is great is you're breathing out and holding your breath longer than you're breathing in. And so that's going to just signal to your body that it's okay to relax. Because when we're in fight or flight, we're breathing pretty heavy, even when you don't recognize it because we're trying to get in as much oxygen as possible. With this, we're taking in less oxygen, holding it, and breathing out longer. That's gonna signal on that deeper level that we are okay. We are safe. And so I will tell people to do this even when they're not feeling stressed. Can you do that once a day? Can you work it into your morning drive? Can you work it into your afternoon drive? You don't have to close your eyes. You can do this while you're doing other things. It's great if you have the time to sit and just really focus on your breath.

SPEAKER_01

But not everybody has that. Yeah, but that's interesting because I never thought to do that when I'm not stressed. Yeah. That seems like such a oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But when you're not stressed and you're doing it, then it signals to your body I'm just checking in, making sure we're safe, feeling good, just really focusing on the breath and what you're feeling even when you're not at a level 10 panic mode. Yeah. But you're talking about safety too, but what does emotional safety uh feel like? That you can feel your emotions and be comfortable no matter what that emotion is. That you can be comfortable crying, that doesn't send you into fear. That you can be comfortable being afraid of something, and that doesn't make you feel like you've lost all control and power. True emotional safety is being able to feel a wide range of emotions without losing control in one extreme or another. Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01

We kind of battle with how do I feel my emotions versus how do I control them. And the thought of being able to feel them is actually good because obviously we are really like, oh, I can feel happiness, but if it's anger, if it's sadness, if it's fear, you're like, no, let's run away from those. So the idea that it's okay to have those.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, to feel that wide range of them. It's actually very healthy to be able to do that without losing control in one way or another. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And we needed you on for we had an episode of Healing versus Hiding. We needed you for that episode. We were going through it, trying to because my friend that was on, she was a feeler and I'm a suppressor. So it's interesting because I intellectualize my feelings.

SPEAKER_00

That's your protective mechanism. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because I'm like, oh no, I gotta control this. And I know it's coming, I feel it, but I don't. The idea of expressing it is not doesn't feel safe. Yeah, and I don't even think I can't I think for me to when we think of traumas and stuff, I don't even think I learned that from having a bad reaction to my emotions. I think it was more that I was alone a lot. So I just had to do it by myself. And then my intellectualizing of it makes me go to, oh, I gotta figure it out because it's not helping me to just feel like this or it's not, it's okay, what are we gonna do with this?

SPEAKER_00

Like, and very much like a suck it up culture. Yeah, yeah. I'll give you something to cry about culture. Yeah, and then you have the extremes of we don't want them to only think that their emotions rule them as children. And so we in the parenting world, I think, go to one extreme or the other. Either suck it up, I'll give you something to cry about, don't be a sissy, or oh, you're having a feeling, okay, you don't have to do that thing because it's uncomfortable. Neither one of those is good. Yeah. We have to have both. We have to be able to recognize that emotions. I always say emotions are valid just because you feel them, but just because you're feeling something doesn't mean it's a fact. Yeah. Yeah. Feelings are not facts, but your feelings are valid because you're feeling them. You get to feel whatever way you want to feel. What you don't get to do is base every life decision off of that feeling because that's not a fact.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And this is a reaction too, because even with my daughter, when she gets big emotions, I'm like, we're not gonna talk about right now. I'm like, go in your room and do your breath, and then we'll come out and then you can explain to me what's happening, then we can take it from there. And usually it's because she didn't want to stop doing something, and she's well, I'm like, okay, but you know that we had these chores and you know that we had to do this, but it's definitely go feel it first because okay, now why are you sad? I'm like, we know because it is usually what you said, just a miscommunication a lot.

SPEAKER_00

And I will say it's okay to be angry, yeah. It's not okay to hurt other people when you're angry. Exactly. That's always that. Yeah, you're being mean to me, too. No, so validating that emotion while also holding a really high standard of it's not okay to treat people certain ways because of your emotions, yeah, but you get to feel that no matter what. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I so many adults do that. Yes, I would agree. Because there's so much of again, I think the great thing about having kids though is there are so many aha moments that you discover of, oh wow, I'm telling them what I need to listen to myself. But you see it so much of what you're telling your kids in adults that don't have that, and the actually being able to feel it, yeah, but not treat me a certain way because of your feeling.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I can be upset at you because you did this thing, yeah, and I can communicate that with you in a way that is respectful, yeah, that is recognizing your humanity. We don't have to agree to be kind.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my goodness. That's social media has kind of ruined it because there's so much. I had someone once tell me that I was like, we just came to a password that we didn't agree with. I was like, we could just agree to disagree, and they're like, no, you're not allowed to disagree. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_00

Well, maybe you really love spaghetti, and maybe I think it is the worst food in the world, and that is a silly example. But it there's almost most people could be like, okay, cool. I still like you as a human, I still want to be your friend. Yeah. Now it's like, even small things, if we disagree on them, sorry, can't be.

SPEAKER_01

It's your whole everything about you now is just like, who are you? Yeah. And obviously there are things that are it's more serious than spaghetti. Yeah. But even if again, into my relationship right now, we'll he'll I'll ask him for something, and he's no, I don't do that. And my initial, because no one likes to hear no. Yeah. And so my initial thing is, okay. And then I'll say, I know that you have the right to say no. And I don't want to be mean about it. I was like, but I definitely don't like that you did say it no, because I feel like this and this, and then I can respect it, but I think that is hard too, because a lot of people don't know how to hear no and not get what they want without making someone an enemy. Yeah. Making that how could you not want to do it? And again, like you said, friendships are ruined because they can't people can't digest the no.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Because we can't sit with discomfort. Yeah. And being told no is uncomfortable. Yeah. And we are now in a world where we can get whatever we want pretty instantly. And if we're uncomfortable, then we can walk away or we can't I'll find someone that says yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. Yeah. No. But then I have to go, I go back to the thing. I'm like, you know what? You told me no, but you got these other good things about you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I think sometimes too, it's deciding is the no a deal breaker versus is it something I just don't like? Yes. Because not everything is toxic behavior, not everything is a red flag. Yeah. Sometimes it is things we just don't like. That yeah. And really having discernment and trusting your own perception of things is something that comes when you are more comfortable with yourself and you trust yourself and you're kind to yourself, then you can be like, I really don't like that. But I just recognize that that's one of the things.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, defining that I feel like of is this a deal breaker is actually really good because so many people where they had to have an uncomfortable conversation and then voided it and let relationships that they cared about go. I bet you if they really would have sat with the idea of is this a deal breaker or not, that would have been like, no, I want you in my life more. And so many things don't happen just because of that uncomfortable conversation that can't be had. When really it's just like we could have disagreed to disagree and still had each other.

SPEAKER_00

And how many people can't tolerate uncomfortable conversations?

SPEAKER_01

So many people, especially with how we use social media now. They can do it in a keyboard and all of that, but in person.

SPEAKER_00

And there's a difference between having a constructive, uncomfortable conversation versus a destructive one. Yes. And most people can't handle being told, you did this thing and it really upset me, and I'd like to repair that. Defense is what happens. Yes. I often try to explain to people intent doesn't matter. Impact does. Yes. And what I mean by that is, well, I never intended to hurt you. Okay, but you still punched me in the face, right? Yeah. The impact is that I have a bloody nose. Yeah. Well, I didn't intend to hit you that hard. Yes. Okay, but you did.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I my daughter, she'd be like, I didn't do that. And I'm like, but you did it, so you should still apologize because you didn't mean to.

SPEAKER_00

And if you really feel like you need to explain yourself, that's not necessarily the time. Can you apologize and say, I'm sorry that I hurt you? I'm sorry that this happened. What can I do to make it right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Especially if that's not your intent. If my intent wasn't to hurt you, then and it did. Oh my God. I should I welcome learning. I we should welcome each other, learning what's not gonna make you upset. How do I talk to you? I see a lot of things of I don't know that what it's called, of just but people even do it with horoscopes. Oh, certain ways that people take things better. So I gotta talk to you this way, and I can be more blunt with you, and just learning that. And then it's a learning process though. So I have to get to the point where it's like, oh, I didn't know that you couldn't, that wasn't the right way to talk to you. Now I could maybe maneuver it.

SPEAKER_00

And when you feel like you are always in control of your emotions, and then no matter what happens makes you feel safe, then you can have those uncomfortable conversations. Yeah. And not feel that you have to get angry and defensive because you know that your worth as a person doesn't depend on other people's perceptions of you.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so if you could leave the woman listening today with one last truth, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00

The truth I would leave them with is no matter what you've achieved, no matter what you have left to achieve, no matter what you are feeling right now, you are worthy of all of the respect, love, and kindness that this world has to offer simply because you are alive and you are breathing, and that alone gives you all of the dignity and the worth that you could ever have. Oh, thank you. That's beautiful.

unknown

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Can you give everyone your socials, anywhere that they could contact you? Listen to you. Okay, so you give some, I love watching your clips and stuff because they're so informative. So they need to follow you so they can.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I try, I try and make it very relatable and valuable. Yeah. And not pop psychology stuff, but just like this is what's grounded clinically and this is how it's gonna apply to your life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's what I when I when I was going through your feed and stuff, I was like, oh yes, it's digestible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So if you are on um Instagram or Facebook, it's all the same. It's Felicia Brown L P C and you'll be able to find me at that handle on all of those places. And then if you are interested in working with me, either through one-on-one or in my group coaching program, you can find all of the information for those programs on my socials as well.

SPEAKER_01

But Felicia put into words today is something so many of us have felt but never had language for. That exhaustion that isn't just about being tired, it's about constantly performing, constantly proving, constantly moving the goalpost the second you reach it. Never letting yourself land anywhere long enough to actually feel proud of how far you've come. She said something that I keep coming back to that this isn't a discipline problem or a motivation problem. It's a nervous system pattern. Your body learns to survive through achievement, through staying busy, through never stopping. And coping strategies alone won't undo that. The healing has to go deeper. I want you to really hear that. Because if you've been hard on yourself for not being able to just relax or just be grateful or just enjoy the moment, it's not a character fall. It's a pattern, and patterns can change. So here's my ask for you today: don't keep this episode to yourself. Think about the woman in your life who's doing too much and feeling like it's never enough, your friend who laughs it off, but you can see she's running on fumes, your coworker who's always the last one to leave, your sister who hasn't taken a real day off in months. Send this to them. Tag them, text them the link. This conversation could genuinely change something for them. And if you are ready to go further than a single episode, I want to personally invite you to join us inside our circle community. That's where we take these topics off the podcast and into real deep conversations. Every episode gets its own discussion and it's a space to actually process the stuff with people who get it. You don't have to figure this out alone. So the link to join is right in the description, and I really hope to see you inside. So thank you for being here. Thank you for listening, and thank you for caring enough about your own healing to show up for conversations like this one. Until next time.