Fathers, Don’t Provoke Your Children

In this episode of Living with Boundaries, we take a hard but necessary look at the role of fathers and the weight of their influence in the home. Rooted in the truth of Ephesians 6:4, we unpack what it really means when Scripture says, “Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger…”

Too often, the way we lead—through harshness, inconsistency, unrealistic expectations, or emotional distance—can unintentionally create frustration, resentment, and even embitterment in our kids. This episode challenges fathers to examine not just their authority, but their tone, their presence, and their intentionality.

We talk about:

• What it looks like to provoke vs. to lead with purpose
• How discipline and grace are meant to work together
• The long-term impact of a father’s words and actions
• Practical ways to raise children in encouragement, not frustration

This isn’t about perfection—it’s about awareness, growth, and leading our families in a way that reflects both truth and love.

If you’re a father, mentor, or anyone influencing the next generation, this episode will challenge and encourage you to lead differently.

If you want, I can also create a shorter version for Buzzsprout or social media captions.

Living with Boundaries is a podcast for dads who want to lead their homes with clarity, conviction, and courage.

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Strong families don’t happen by accident.
 They’re built with intention — and boundaries.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, what's up, everybody? It's Josh and Matt coming at you again here on Living with Boundaries. And we're excited to be here today. We got a great topic we're going to talk about. We'll get into that in a little bit, but I'll look across the table at my buddy Josh and say, Josh, how are you doing today? Good morning, Matt. What's going down?

SPEAKER_00 0:19

You know what? Drinking my coffee out of a new mug that uh my parents got us for Christmas. It's Jesus running after the one lost sheep.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Are you a coffee mug snob? Like you have to have a specific mug because coffee just tastes different out of different mugs.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Okay, it's not because it tastes different. It's just I have a certain size of mug I prefer. Okay. Or a certain amount of coffee. I like to do that.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

There are there are three mugs at my house, and I could I I mean, if I picture them, I could just I could describe them to me. I won't bore the audience with it. But for some reason, I have to have one of these three mugs. If I drink out of another one, it just the coffee just doesn't taste as good to me. Okay. So what is what is that mental? Am I am I a mental patient? I would probably say you're in the mental category.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Because that's a taste thing. Like you're literally saying it it changes the taste of the coffee now. To me, the coffee, excuse me. What I get excited. Well, not a good way to start this morning. Uh, anyways, what I get excited about is if I get my cream in just the right amount, or it's not too much and it's not too little, that's where I get picky on my taste.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

It's probably gonna take too long, but I'll uh it what age were you when you start drinking coffee to tell these stories.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

We don't have to get into it deep. What age were you? Okay, well, so I'm short, so I was told my whole life that coffee stunned your growth, which we obviously know is not true. Uh so I did drink it for a while. I don't think I drank it until probably oh, after college.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I started drinking coffee in the summer of 2004. I was 20. How do you even remember the year? Because I'll never forget. I used to wake up in the morning. I was at the basic school in the Marine Corps, Atl, Virginia, and we would have to wake up early and go to classes several days a week to you know learn about patrolling and map reading and nightland navigation and weapon systems and all these things. And my roommate, I kid you not, had the I mean, he probably will never listen to this. His name was Joe White. And let me tell you, he was Joe White. Joe White. Every bit of Joe White from Barstow, California. And Joe was married, so he lived off base. Okay, but he had to maintain a room. So he was my quote, my roommate, even though he was rarely ever there. But he would come early and he would make coffee in our little uh, you know, dorm room that we had, and he would make French vanilla, and it smelled so good every morning when I would wake up, and he he finally convinced me to just try some, and and from then on I've been a coffee drinker. He was like your Barracks father. Yes. He was older than I was, he was probably three years older than me, but might as well have been 40 years. I mean, it just when you're 20, how old have I been? 24 years old, and someone else is like 27 or 28 and had already been an enlisted Marine and done some other things. I thought, man, this guy has got it all together.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah. Just so you know, like the one one of the most interesting things about you, in my opinion, is your military past and some of your analogies you use and whatever. Like, I think we need to devote a whole uh podcast eventually to that.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Your history that may take longer than 20, 30 minutes, bro.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

But well, that's right. Maybe it'll be a special edition podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

And you know what? I will say, uh, you know, as we as we get ready to dive into this topic today, I will say the Marine Corps had a big part to play in who I am as a man. Um, it identified weaknesses in me. Um, and in some ways, the Marine Corps was was really good for me, in some ways it was not so good for me. And uh, it's really part of my faith story, and we can get into that another day. But I I know that we wanted to dive into the topic of um fatherhood today and talk about what it means to be a father from a biblical perspective, how we are living out uh the the honor and the privilege uh and the responsibility of being a father as middle-aged men in the western suburbs of Chicago. Um Josh, what are your thoughts on fatherhood? What are the challenges that you face? How do we live out this life as fathers the way that Christ tells us we should be? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Um I think where I'd start off as a father is understanding it helps to understand who our father is, right? Jesus Christ. Um, if we don't understand who he is and we don't know who he is, it's really hard for us to be very good at what we do as a father.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

The the God, the father, Jesus the son, really modeled what it's supposed to be like to be a father and a son and and that influence that we're supposed to have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah. So for me, obviously it starts off how did Christ love the church? Right? How did what did Christ do for the church? And obviously he went to fantasy football, he went to sporting events, the gambled dog drafts.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

He hung out with his buddies and went out for guys' nights. They did guys' weekends in Vegas. They uh wait a minute. Uh that's maybe not what he did. Wait, did he have uh uh just a blazing career path up the corporate ladder and and uh getting good titles and big incomes and he had all the wait. No, no, no, he didn't have those things either.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Uh Jesus Jesus didn't even have a house.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah. Did have a house. Literally would just kind of go around hopefully, hopefully somebody. You know, we we tried doing that in college, actually. Me and some of my buddies, we tried going around and not. We went on a spring break with no idea where we were gonna stay. Dude is literally one of the best weeks of my life.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

That as I'm telling you, I'm I'll be 46 in two weeks. That sounds right now like the most miserable time I could ever imagine. Here's what I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

I have to have a plan. With my family, sure. With you, me, and a few other guys. Oh, I could totally do it all over again.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

I I I would develop a plan secretly and I just wouldn't tell you what it is. And I would just pretend like, hey Josh, we're just we're just winging it here, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

There's the military man, ladies and gentlemen. He has a plan in itinerary. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

So correct back to the topic. Correct. Christ, Christ served the church. Yeah. So it's fathers and husbands. I mean, this isn't so much about husbandship, uh, even though that plays a huge part into our role as fathers. But we're here, we're here to serve. And so how do we how do we serve our kids?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

That's a great question. And I mean, it kind of goes back to your story about the guy making the coffee for you in the morning, right? He was kind of setting an example for you of a daily, what you'd call battle rhythm, right? His battle rhythm was make coffee, get some coffee, and you get going. I think for me, one of the things we try to do in our house is we my kids know I wake up, I usually read the Bible, I have some prayer time, and I'm usually reading a book of some sorts as well. Um, because I can't understand how to be a great father if I'm not understanding who my father is, you know, in the heavenly realm. So I think that's where it starts to start modeling to your kids. Here's what I'm trying to do. Doesn't mean I'm perfect, doesn't mean I have everything figured out. But man, when I start it, what it does is it opens my eyes to the truth. And then what it does, when I'm sitting there asking God to forgive me of my sins that I'm still struggling with, it holds me more accountable to how I'm living my life every day. Am I perfect? No, I still make mistakes, I still get angry. I think the thing I struggle with the most is I'm where I'm at in life right now, is more getting angry at just stupid stuff. Then I look back, I'm like, was that worth getting angry at or not? I don't I don't really have that problem. Well, I'm a little guy, so I have a Napoleon complex sometimes and I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

My my kids will laugh at that comment because I struggle with the exact same thing. Yeah. Uh I think I think we have um sometimes in the Christian world we can play it off as, oh, I've got righteous anger. I've got righteous anger. Yeah. Um, and my argument to that is as a father, whether you have unrighteous or righteous anger, the way that we handle it is typically both wrong. Yeah. We take our righteous anger at lack of discipline, laziness, uh, maybe uh poor choices, uh, lack of discipline. Uh, I say that already. Uh we we can see that and we can get angry at it and we can be like, oh no, this is I am right, but the way that we handle it is embittering to our kids. It's not encouraging. And I think the Bible, and I can't remember where that verse, it's gotta be in Proverbs somewhere, where it talks about don't embitter your kids, be an encourager. And that's oftentimes where I fall short, Josh, is I become more embittering than I do encouraging. And that really, really can set a tone in my household that creates an environment of of friction. And it's our how our home, the way our home is not a refuge, then it becomes a place where, well, dad's just gonna get mad at stuff. Yeah. And that's that is incredibly unhealthy. And um, I I I try to confess and correct myself pretty quickly when I recognize I'm doing that.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah. I and I know coaching my kids, I read a great thing. I forgot, I don't know if it was like their whole life or whatever, but when you're coaching your kids, yelling at them as a coach, like if you're their dad, they can't really separate is that dad or coach? You know what I mean? I'm in trouble then. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I heard that the other day. I'm like, oh, that's not good. So what I try to do now with my kids, if I have something to correct them on with when it comes to their sports, is hey, after the game, I try to take my dad hat and put that on right away and say, hey kids, I'm really proud of you, the effort you put out there. If they gave good effort, obviously, you know, if they did, hey, you gave great effort. We can't control the outcomes. Those have those happen however they're gonna happen, but we control our attitude, we control our effort. You know, my daughter, she's she's on this basketball team and she's pretty much a bench player. I encourage her after the game, hey, I saw you going out there high-fiving, you know, telling the girls good job when it's timeouts and stuff. I praise her for that. Because again, she can't control everything else. So it's like, hey, control what you can control and go have a good attitude and go give great effort when you do get in.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

So Josh, you've got you've got four kids at some different ages. Um when these when when you when these kids became a part of your life, so that your your your stepkids that are older uh became part of your life, I think what, when they were five and three, something pretty young, you've been a part of their life for a long time. Yeah. And then uh you and Jessica have two of your own kids. When you became a father, um did you have a parenting book? What were you reading? How did you know what you were supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Great, great question. Um at the time when I met Jessica, I had a faith, but I was my faith was just kind of something I kind of did, not really did. Um but I actually did get a book called The Successful Step Parent. Okay, and I'll admit that book helped a lot because I was coming into a situation where here's two kids that aren't mine. How do I love them? How do I guide them? Again, at least I had the understanding and knowledge to go try to find some help. Go try to find some information. And obviously, I wish I'd just, I mean, the book was fantastic. I'd recommend it to anybody in a blended family situation because there's a lot that goes along with I'm I found it. Colossians 3.21 says, Fathers, do not bitter your children or they will become discouraged. Okay. And obviously, in that blended family role, you got to be really careful how you talk about the other parents, okay, for of those children. And that's bit one of the biggest things I took away from that book is not belittling or trying to make their other parent look bad because at the end of the day, that's their parent. Right. You know, and I think with us as fathers with our kids, we can crush our kids' spirits pretty fast, right? I would argue, you know, that for the whole first, second, third child situation. Your first child, they usually want to do whatever they can to please mom and dad. That's just kind of built their DNA. And then we always jokingly kind of tell Hunter, yeah, you're like our guinea pig, man. Like we're trying to learn on you. Like there's no guidebook here that really tells us exactly how to do this. And we've told him that his whole life. And, you know, now he's 20, well, 19 years old, almost 20 here. And he's starting to really come back and say, Hey, you know, I really appreciate what you tried to teach me. I didn't understand it then, I'm starting to understand it now. Uh but obviously we're still learning, we're still growing. Well, what is what is the best thing you can do for your children? So if you had asked me how do you raise great kids, I it's no different than our relationship with our father in heaven. You have to let your kids know you love them. And they will know that and how you treat them, how you talk to them, what you do for them. So my goal every day you want a kid to not go be a complete crazy, you know, psycho. You want a kid to go and uh understand their worth and whatever, love them. What does that mean? Love them unconditionally.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

How do you love them unconditionally? What is what does it look like?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

It also means you gotta discipline them. Okay. Right? You have to hold them accountable.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

And uh and and and I'm just gonna keep digging here a little bit, but because uh to be honest with you, Josh, you've and I have been around enough kids in here in the western suburbs, including in church.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

We see a lot of kids who on the face of it, their parents provide them everything. They have enough food, they have shelter, they have water, yeah, they have stuff. I would argue a lot of them lack the one thing they actually really need, and that is discipline. Yeah. In a loving way. In fact, Proverbs um 2013, 24 says, Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. And a couple of things that jumps out at me. Number one, I think Proverbs is by far the best parenting book you could ever read. Totally. I think it's the best business book. I think it's the best um book on how to choose friends, um, uh, really how to live life. So if you have never been a Bible reader or you're just kind of just thinking, uh, I don't know really know where to start, um, yes, we want to know who Jesus is. Yes, we want to read the gospels, but from a practicality standpoint, I would just argue get into Proverbs. There's 31 chapters, read a chapter a day each month. And but a couple things that that jump out to me here um when it comes to discipline, it says the one who loves their children is careful to discipline. The word careful jumps out at me, Josh. Because I think sometimes we think discipline, we automatically think 1950s father uh, you know, pulling out literally the rod or the belt and just beating his kids into submission. And to a certain extent, I think when kids are really young, um, corporal punishment does work. Yeah. Um, as they get older, it doesn't. And where that transition and where that phase, we're not, I'm not gonna analyze, I'm not a you know, child therapist, and I'm not gonna mean well, I probably am a child therapist. I've been around enough children. I've just I'll go ahead and declare myself that. But um what I'm saying is is discipline has to be careful. And I think what Proverbs is teaching us is we can be fair in our households while disciplining our children in different ways. Yeah. Because they're gonna respond differently. And I can tell you right now, I've got a couple of kids that when I raise my voice and I look at them sternly, they they fall in line and they recognize it. And then I have a couple kids that if I raise my voice and I look at them sternly, it doesn't go well. And I have to handle those a little bit differently. I don't always do, all right, for the confession here, okay? But um we got to be careful. Yeah. I've got a 16-year-old daughter at home. I can't discipline her the same way I do my 13-year-old son. There are some differences there that I have to be careful with. And I I think that's something that we um need to strive for as fathers is to be in tune with that. And it's hard to be in tune with how to carefully discipline our children if we're too busy watching the next sporting event, if we're too busy out having beers with our buddies, if we're too busy focusing on our corporate job or our businesses saying, no, I need to grow my business to have worth and value. And the whole time we're missing an opportunity to grow these young people into these beautiful creations that God intended them to be. We have a huge responsibility as fathers. And I think most of us tend to just brush it off and think, oh, I provide. Yeah, I've got a nice house. Yeah, my kids are in travel baseball. Um, that's good for them. It's not good enough. Yeah. And I think we're really, really failing at this. And I and I say that um not because I want to like jab at dads around here, but I want to encourage and I want to motivate dads to say, let's get this thing back on the tracks.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah, Matt, you're right. I I'm so I I was listening to a guy the other day kind of preparing for this, and he gave eight different types of fathers. I thought this was really good. The missing inaction father. Um, obviously they either passed or maybe they have an illness, they just can't be present. Um, but they're just circumstances don't allow them to be around. Okay. I'd argue maybe a military father just constantly overseas or whatever. And then obviously you have the dead beat dead. This is the guy that just completely lose her. Okay, doesn't care to be a dad, doesn't want to be a dad, just just does lists for fun, himself, that's it. And then I think this one is more relevant than not. This is the addicted dad. And I think I look at our culture today. We live in Illinois where pot, smoking weed, it's all legalized now. And I would argue uh that's an addiction, right? It can become an addiction very easily. Drinking, that's an addiction, right? Porn, it's an addiction. Gambling. Gambling is addiction. Like we have so many vices that you know that are legal, right? That just are vices holding us back.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Let me let me pause there real quick. It's uh it's gonna be tough, dads, excuse me, uh to discipline your kids if you yourself are not disciplined. Yes. So as we talk through these, uh um who's holding you accountable? Yeah. Where's your accountability partners? Where's your Bible study? Where's your church attendance? Where's your prayer time? Where's your exercise discipline? Where's the time that you're spending and you're sitting down with uh hopefully the mother of your children, your wife, um, and looking her in the eyes and saying, hey, how can I honor and serve you today? Because if we are going to demand and and discipline our children carefully, we better be disciplined, or it's all just gonna be for naught. Yeah. Because I'm again, they always say the famous saying is more is caught than taught. And that's that's true. And our kids see right through that, especially as they get older, because they will highlight every one of your flaws.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Oh, totally. Yeah. Well, dad, you did this. Yeah. I like this one too. So there's there's uh uh eight, four more here, or sorry, five more here. Mr. Nice Guy, I think I see this a lot. Hey, I'm a dad. I love my kids, I give them everything you want, like you said, but they don't want to discipline, they don't want to correct. They're they're tender, they're loving, they're warm, but they don't want conflict. They're gonna avoid it. Too much love, not enough truth. Exactly. Okay, selfish dad. These are the guys, hey, I'm golfing all weekend. Hey, I'm in my garage, dude, working on my hobby. Hey, I'm not home. I'm out doing what I want to do. I work hard, I play hard, whatever. Next one here's party hardy. I know some people like this. Life of the party. When they show up, everybody loves seeing them. They're blessed to be around, but at the end of the day, nobody really respects them. I mean, they don't have they don't done anything to earn respect. Um, and then obviously, here's one that yeah, I'll admit, like sometimes I this is where I struggle. I probably question myself more than not, but am I a domineering dad? Am I overbearing? Am I intimidating? Am I too driven? Okay, do I have unrealistic expectations? But obviously, in the back of my mind, am I thinking I'm trying to prepare them for the world, trying to make them a man, trying to make them who they need to be.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, let's let's let's pause on that one real quick. We have a saying in our house. Um, and I I think this saying uh is is is a good saying. I think sometimes I can be a little bit over you know, over demanding and things like that as well. Um, but mediocrity isn't good enough. Yeah. Um, and here's the reason I we say that. Number one, um, my wife and I have a great marriage. Um we both love the Lord. We uh God has provided, God's grace. Race has been enormous. I mean, again, God's grace, God's grace and mercy. Okay. Um, we have healthy children, healthy bodies, healthy minds. There is no reason that my children should not, and my wife and I too, should not be living lives filled with fruit. Yeah. And if we are just gonna kind of lazily go through the day and we're just gonna, we're gonna join a team, and we're just gonna, we just, we just wanna have fun and just, you know, be a part of the, be part of it. And I don't really want to put the F. That's not good enough. Yeah. Okay, we have to take things seriously, and we can have a lot of fun too. Totally. And what I found is when you work hard and you focus and have discipline and you develop your character through sport, through work, whatever it is we're doing, you you end up having a lot more fun. Yeah. And so if we're just gonna kind of go through the motions of something, it's not good enough.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah, and that's where I come from too. Like, hey, we're not just gonna settle for average. If you're gonna commit to the team, commit to a team. If you're gonna commit to work, work, right? Obviously, I think you and I both run pretty successful businesses. Doesn't happen by us just waking up and doing nothing every day. Like we have to go right push. We got to go grind. Right. And then lastly, the last dad here is the good dad. And I I read this and I heard this. I was like, okay, maybe I'm not as horrors, horrible as I think. Okay, because it says not perfect. I tell my kids all the time, guys, I'm not perfect. I'm still trying to grow and learn as a man and who God wants me to be. Um, but I'm present. That's another thing too. I think half the battle is just being there for your kids. Show up for their events, be with them when they're home. Don't let them just go run in the room and get on a device or you know, we we make sure we focus on having family time, especially dinners, right? Spending time after dinner. Um, I'm I'm not scared to apologize to my kids or my wife. That's incredibly powerful.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah. It's an imp I've seen the same fruit of that, um, especially as your kids get older. Yeah. Um, I mean, I I I've gone into the rooms of my kids are rate range in age from 10 to 16, and I've gone in and I've said, Hey, um, dad was mad, but I didn't handle it the right way. Yeah. And I apologize for lashing out. I apologize for the for the you know how I spoke to you back there. Um, or if I make a mistake and I said, Hey, dad didn't have all the information, and I instead of listening, I was quick to speak. Yeah. And I use terms like that because that's what the Bible says. And I want my kids to know it's true.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So when dad goes in and I say, Hey guys, I I didn't, I was not slow to speak and quick to listen. Um, I was quick to speak and slow to listen, and I was wrong.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Will you forgive me? And you know what? You know what's great about kids? What? They forgive. Oh, totally. Adults, we don't forgive near as good as near as quickly as kids. Yeah. Hey, let me hit this. Um Whoever fears the Lord has a secure fortress, and for their children, it will be a refuge. How do we make a secure fortress? I think we talked about it a little bit. Discipline. We do we we ourselves have to be disciplined.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

I think there's a couple things we've missed. Well, hold on. Let me back up real fast. There's there's one thing in my opinion that where this all starts too. It's not just your relationship with the Lord, it's also your relationship with your wife. That's exactly where I was going. Okay, you read my mind. Man, we're good. Why is that important? Because we have to, again, it goes back to showing our kids like this is where it started. Like this this person I chose first. Right? They chose me first before all of you. Now my situation is a blended family with Jessica came too. But I just said my mind at that time, they're mine. That's the mindset I took in that situation. But that's where it starts with your spouse.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

And and I think that when you have a secure fortress, I think, I think, I think this proverb, and this is Proverb 14, 26, um, the fortress is talking about number one, you've got a heart that's secured in your love for Christ. I also think they're talking about the physical fortress, the home. A secure home is a father who is present, who is capable, who is leading, and most importantly, who is loving his wife and his children well. Yeah. And when we have those things, the the the the the home being a refuge, because what's this world wanting to do? This world is wanting to pull our kids in all kinds of different directions. They don't want the family to do. So when they come home, it's a refuge. It is a place that says, no, this is a loving place. This is a place filled with peace. This is a place filled with purpose. And you know what? Kids actually learn to love discipline. Yeah. Because they love who they are becoming. And it's not easy, but it's a responsibility that we have. At the same time, I want to highlight one other book, and it is called Counterfeit Gods. Okay, Tim Keller wrote it. And in there, it talks about we have overstepped our bounds, and we have made our children idols. Totally. And as much as they are a responsibility and we are to cultivate their life, and we do have huge influence on them, the moment we make them an idol, in other words, we can't live without them. They are all all and be all and all the things, we've held them to a standard that they were never meant to be. And we can find ourselves frustrated, angry, depressed. We're only as happy as our, you know, most uh um uh what is it what's the phrase? Parents are as uh they are as happy as their uh happiest or uh as they're um like basically parents cannot be happy unless their kids are happy. So if they've got a kid that's not happy, care parents are not. And and and I I I rebuke that. That's not true. Yeah, um, we've made an idol of our kids then. And I think sometimes uh when I read that book several years ago, it hit me like a like a like a brick in the face. Because I think in ways I was idolizing my kids, and I think I still do to this day, confessing.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, totally. I think we still obviously it's easy to do, right? There are there are worlds in the day, just like Jesus looked at us is his world. Like we want the best for them. Um so, Matt, how do how do we go, how do we apply these biblical principles to our lives? How do we move forward here to be the best fathers we can be for our kids and husbands for our wife? I think it starts with humility.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

I think it starts with humility. Uh, we have to humble ourselves before God. We have to ask for his forgiveness, we have to humble ourselves before our wives. Um, and quite frankly, we have to have the courage to step up to the plate. Yeah. And we have to lead well. And the only way to lead well is to get yourself right in your heart. Um, I think you have to get yourself, your body right. Um, I think you have to get your mind right. Um, and how do we do those things? Um, again, we got to get into God's word. But but just, I mean, the devil knew God's knows God's word. It's not good enough just to read it. We have to apply it and we have to have accountability. I think as we as we age, we don't really want accountability. Yeah. Like, I got it all. Not that we all have it figured out, but I don't really, I don't need that guy to hold me accountable. I don't need to um, you know, pray every morning and confess and do those things like I'm I'm you know, I'm just doing my thing. Yeah. We gotta stop doing our thing. We gotta start doing God's thing. Totally. Totally. Matt, this has been a great conversation this morning. I I don't even think we hit on, I think Josh, we need to get into how do we parent sons differently than we parent daughters. There's so much you know, what does careful discipline look like with a daughter than it does with a son? We just, again, uh the the point here is that we want to drive home um ideas and topics and discussion points, not because we have the answers. We want you to go and chew on these and wrestle with these. Totally. Wrestle with your friends, wrestle with your spouse. Um put this out on the dinner table. I'll tell you, that's one more thing we do. We do a lot of deep discussions around the dinner table.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yeah. Get incredibly powerful. That's right. Spend time with them. That's right. Matt, thanks so much today, man. It's been great. Good stuff, Josh. I like that list. Thanks for sharing.