Money Isn’t the Problem—You Might Be

In this episode, Josh and Matt take on one of the most misunderstood and often avoided topics in the Christian life: money.

Is money good? Is it dangerous? Should Christians pursue it, avoid it, or something in between?

Too often, we swing to extremes—either believing wealth is evil or chasing it like it’s everything. But Scripture paints a much deeper picture. Money itself isn’t the issue… the heart is.

The guys dig into Malachi chapter 3, where God, speaking through the final prophet of the Old Testament, calls out the nation of Israel—not for having money, but for robbing Him. Their issue wasn’t income… it was trust, obedience, and misplaced priorities.

What does it really mean to “rob God”?
Why does God tie generosity to blessing?
And how can money quietly become an idol in our lives—just like anything else?

From tithing to stewardship, from provision to pride, this episode challenges you to take an honest look at your relationship with money and ask:

Is God my provider… or is my bank account?

Because in the end, money isn’t just about dollars and cents—
it’s about who (or what) you trust.

Living with Boundaries is a podcast for dads who want to lead their homes with clarity, conviction, and courage.

If this episode encouraged you:
 • Follow the show
 • Leave a review
 • Share it with another father

Strong families don’t happen by accident.
 They’re built with intention — and boundaries.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Josh, how are you doing today? It's been a couple weeks since we've been uh recording. I know you guys have been traveling a little bit. I think Lene and I were out of town, and it's good to be back. And what's going on today, buddy? Matt, it's a beautiful day.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

It's Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

What is it? April 28th? It is April 28th today. I don't know when this will end up dropping, probably sometime in mid-May. But um I had a sergeant instructor, a drill instructor, uh tell me a long time ago when I was in the Marine Corps that every day is a good day. Some days are just better than others. Totally. And I tried, I try to live that out. Um, even though uh I typically give myself like a B minus on most things and probably give myself a B minus on that. That I'm not sure I always treat every day as a good day, some are just better than others, but it's a good line and it's good to put in the back of the uh the old brain housing group and uh bring it out every once in a while.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So I had an economics teacher in high school. He he had daughters, and what he said is similar, but it's a little different. He said, All women are beautiful, some are just more beautiful than others.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Wow. That's a bold statement for an economics high school teacher. Economics. Were you a big economy guy? I know you you manage finances for a living, but were you an econ guy growing up?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

So growing up, math and I were maybe not the best friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I loved math. Remember, remember Math um Mad Minutes? You did, and it was always a it was always a competition for me. I couldn't wait to get them done. And it it was so fun. First through probably third or fourth grade, mad minutes were a thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Okay, so let me retract my statement. I love math up until we had to start doing like algebra and geometry and all that stuff. Have you ever used that in your life? No, and that's even to this day, my kids take these classes. I'm like, I get if you're gonna be an engineer for sure, maybe an analyst or whatever. I'm like, I get it. But really, just the basic math. I love the basic math.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

I love I love that. We used a lot of geometry in the Marine Corps, specifically around fields of fire, angles of attack, and the aircraft, you know, a lot. Which I get that. And some of that, some of that is more detailed and nuanced than others, but yeah, man, you get the late high school and algebra two and trigonometry. What am I going to use this for? And I in some ways I found it challenging because I I like problem solving. And, you know, problem solving with math is is really pretty black and white. You either solve the problem or you don't. I think I think math being black and white um frustrates people because a lot of people don't like to be wrong. And in math, you you get it wrong, or you get it right. Yeah. And it's you either either succeed or you fail. Yeah. And so um, in some ways, I liked that because it was a very um individual way to determine am I succeeding or failing? And math doesn't lie. Um, so I kind of like that. I think it challenges people nowadays uh because of that. In fact, I think at one point somebody called math like racist or something along the lines because of the way that uh it was being taught in schools, which is just I mean, so it it's not a matter of uh of of of um you know prejudice or or where you come from. I just I think math is is kind of one of those things where that you either embrace it and love it or you absolutely hate it, um especially as you age.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

So I tell my kids, I'm like, you could sit there and complain about it all day. But I'm like, the sooner you learn it, the easier it gets.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

And the more consistent you are. Yeah. If you just try to cram for a test, it's not gonna help. But you know, being I was actually just talking to this, my my men's workout group, which by the way, Josh, um, if you ever want to come, 5 15 in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

We we just had that conversation about this. Um I'm waking up early enough now.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

I was talking about consistency over intensity. And I think that's something you can use in all aspects of life is how do you be consistent, whether it's consistent in your studies, consistent in um how you serve your wife, um, consistent in how you read your Bible, consistent in how you manage relationships, um, even consistency, Josh, around how you manage your money. So we we we thought we'd dive into uh uh uh maybe a controversial topic or a topic that that definitely um is a challenging topic. Um, I would say money and sex are the two things that most people um are afraid to talk about, especially as they grow as adults, because for some reason they're taboo or people are at extreme opposite ends, or it's very intimate and people don't want to talk about it. So we've talked about sex in here. We'll continue to talk about it, but I don't feel like we've talked a lot about money. So, Josh, no, how should we handle our money? What do we do with our money? Is money good? Is money bad? Is money evil? Do you have a profession that's largely built around money and wealth? Yes.

unknown 5:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

What do you think? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

There's so many thoughts. I was thinking about this last time. I was like, there's so many different ways we could talk about money. Um, I think at the end of the day, looking, listening to this podcast previous episodes, one, we say this all the time. We don't have everything figured out, you and I. Like we are imperfect human beings. We are sinners saved by grace. There's still a lot that we have to learn. There's still a lot we have to do as believers when it comes to all areas of our faith. Um, but I think the biggest thing, if you keep listening to our podcast, you're gonna realize is it's my song for the year, and you might laugh at this. It's 38 special, hold on loosely. Okay, but don't let go. That is my song for the year. It's a good song. It is a great song. But I I I come up with a song for the year, and that was my song for this year. And the reason why I came up with that is because I just feel like God told me at the beginning of this year, like, Josh, hold, you know, hold on loosely, but don't let go. And I don't know where that's gonna go. I don't know where that's gonna take me, but that's kind of my mindset right now with life. Like just hold on loosely, but don't let go, right? Like keep my hands on God, but just sit back and just see what he's gonna do. And so far this year, it's been one of the busiest years of my life so far. But so much abundance, so much blessing, so much just wow, like I'm just here for this ride and let's go. You know what I mean? And I think listening to our previous podcast, it's to me, money is it's no different than any other subject in a way. Are we being intentional in how we handle our money? I think that's if I could say this to anybody, I think too many people make their money, and the minute they get it, they're just spending it. Okay, like they're just it's just gone. I mean, like they have to go, and I get we have to get stuff, and I get the cost of things have gone up drastically over the last few years. And it's harder to live today. But in our culture, we're seeing this huge divide where there's people that I believe are they want to just put blame on somebody else, but they don't want to do anything to try to change their situation, or they feel like they can't do anything to change their situation. Um, but money at the end of the day, I I mean, actually, the Bible, doing some research on this, the Bible actually talks more about money and and wealth than it does about prayer and fasting. I mean, this is how big of a subject money is in the Bible.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Well, the the the subject of money and wealth in the Bible is you'll see it portrayed largely as things like storehouses and agricultural and crop and bountiful crop and and uh harvest and sheep and herds, and it largely because money in the Bible, even some gold and silver and things like that, and valuable precious, you know, precious metals and rubies and um but the way wealth looked back then I would think is largely similar to the way wealth looks now, just a different set of currency. Um and money to me matters. I think money's important. And I think money's important because m money, whether you have lots of it or just enough, or even not enough, you will ultimately see what's in someone's heart by how they treat their money. Yeah. And so that in and of itself, I think is is a is a nuance in American culture that um we don't we don't always talk about much. So if I said um Josh, tell me about your money, would that be offensive to you? Is that a conversation that you would shy away from? No. Even if you knew, let's say you knew I either had a lot or I had a little, which was way different than what you had, would that would that skew the conversation because you're worried about how I would judge you, whether you have a lot or a little?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

No. I mean, to me, at the end of the day, again, this comes back to me. How do you like some people they put their money on this pedestal? Like they have to have it, they have to get more, whatever. I think at the end of the day, God wants to know where our hearts are at with money. Like, are you willing to, I think at the end of the day, God's like, hey, are you willing to give to a person in need? Are you willing to give to an organization that's doing good things? I think the biggest thing is one, we have to understand who's whose money is it to begin with. And I'm gonna say there, obviously the Bible's very clear, everything we have is got, right? So if we approach money with that mindset right away, we have to understand that even though we work, we toil for this money to to earn it, to make a living for ourselves, which I also believe God calls us to do. Oh, that's that's all over Proverbs. All over. Well, I mean, yeah, it's all over. I was even in uh oh gosh, what was it right before Timothy? What is that? Titus, Thessalonians? Thessalonians. Yeah, Thessalonians.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

There's some some of my favorite verses in the Bible are out of Thessalonians.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Yeah, Thessalonians. Actually, I'll just read it, read it to you. Warning against idleness. Okay, it says, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you receive from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling, so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule the one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah, that's that's definitely something that uh we don't subscribe to in modern Western American culture. Um, I think we feel sorry for people um too much. Yeah. Um, there's definitely people um who are unable to work. Yeah. Physical disability, sickness, accident, elderly, yeah, um, by all means, compassion, generosity, all those things apply. And I don't think you would ever find um Christians, um, specifically, or even the majority of America that wouldn't want to support people in that environment. But I think the problem more is how many able-bodied people are choosing not to work or choosing to barely work. And and I think uh the thing we have to look at as we analyze relationships and we analyze our community and our family and even ourselves is money is something we are called to go earn. Um, and I think uh in a society that promotes lottery and DraftKings and what's the other one that I'm not thinking of? Whatever the other sports gambling, all the things where like people are trying to get rich, or even crypto. Yeah, or the I mean the market. Yeah, in and out of the market, trying to get rich quick.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Um I've seen a lot of that lately lately. Winning your money is a temporary high and ultimately will will not have a lasting effect on you. Earning your money is biblical and it's good. And it doesn't mean earning lots of money. You don't have to earn lots of money. Yeah. Um, but earning your paycheck and and is a good thing. Yeah. It's a biblical thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yeah. And obviously, from my perspective, I've been uh ISIN people when it comes to how to manage their money for over 20 years. And I am a associated with Dave Ramsey and his Smart Vestor Pro services. And it's funny because he's on the radio, he's on YouTube, he's everywhere, and he's teaching people how to manage their money. And it's funny because I get to see a lot of different people. I get to see a lot of different buckets of money. Doesn't make sense. Like some are small, some are big, some are in between, you know, some are just starting off. Or and I I've seen all situations. Um but again, I think it comes back to one, whose money is it? It's all God's, right? If we're a truly believer, we understand that everything we have is God's. Two, he asks us when we do have it, to be good stewards of it, right? And I think you brought up Proverbs, and we could go through one proverb after another.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

And I mean, you talk about you know, the proverbs is largely around work when it's time to work, yeah. Don't be a sluggard, don't be lazy. Yep. Um, and and then we we'll talk a little bit here about the opposite end about um generosity or lack of generosity. Yeah. But do you do you think God wants us to have money?

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah. Well, for sure. There, I don't think there's any you've actually challenged me on this one. You I think it's okay. Like you said, I you go read the scriptures, and I'll be honest with you, I didn't, I never really looked at it this way until I met you. But there's nothing wrong with having money. Nothing wrong.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Listen, I'm I'm going to, I'm not gonna do it yet. I'm going to read a verse out of an obscure book in the Old Testament called Malachi. And we're probably going to do it at the toward the end of this this discussion because I want people to chew on this. I do not believe that the more money you give to God necessarily means you're going to be wealthier. Yeah. That's the prosperity gospel. Okay? Give us your money and then God will reward you, and all will be great. But I do think there is a lot in the Bible that God says, if you would love me above all else, yeah, and you would work, and you would live with purpose, and you would care for your family, watch what I'll do for you. Yeah. And um that largely is a heart issue, not a give me your money. But sometimes God says, give me your money, and then let's see where your heart follows. Yeah. And I I just I I think it's a it's a challenge because um in some ways people feel some people feel guilty because they have money. Yeah. And I I I kind of go, okay, but why? Yeah. Maybe it's because money has such a grasp on you that you feel guilty that you have so much, that the generosity muscle is not being exercised. Yeah. Um so I I do I do challenge people that think it's bad to have money, because I think God wants us to. I think it's biblical. I think he you start you start looking in the old testament, yeah from from Abraham all the way through David, all the way up through, you know, how how um God and Christ engaged with people with money in the New Testament. Um I think money is not evil. I think the love of money is evil, and that's not my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, that's what Jesus said. Exactly. And I know from where I sit doing what I've done for over 20 years, I've met people who who kind of they definitely view money as like this evil thing. And obviously, in the culture today, too, I saw a person I know post on Facebook a shirt that said, eat the rich. You know, it's like, and and don't get me wrong, if you're a greedy son of a gun and you don't want to give two pennies and you're selfish and whatever, I kind of get the thought process there. But I would argue Jim Bowen. He's a CEO of First Trust Portfolios in Wheaton, Illinois, and we go to a seminar every year, a bunch of advisors, usually towards the end of the year in December. But Jim has always said that we are the protectors of the most productive people on the planet's wealth. And I love that he says that because it's there's a lot of truth to that. And sitting from where I've sit, a lot of people that have accumulated wealth and accumulated money, they've gotten there because they're willing to work their butts off for it. Yeah. Okay. But there's those who just take it and need more of it constantly because it doesn't satisfy them, because it is one of their idols or one of their gods. And then there's those who have it. Some of these people I know because either family built wealth and it was passed on. And I'll admit, it really comes down to how the parents viewed money and then how the parents taught their children about money. And I've found I've seen some amazing families, some amazing people. I see it every year. They get to do some amazing things with that money. Right. And they their heart is in the right place. Now, does that mean they don't save up for the retirement? No. We're called to be a good steward of our money. It's a tool at the end of the day, right? It's a tool to give it, get us where we need to be and what we need to do to take care of ourselves and hopefully our loved ones. So I'm not against anybody that's saving for retirement, so forth, all that stuff. Or putting money away for an emergency or a rainy day, whatever. Um, but it's really comes down to how do you view money? Is it God's or is it yours? And then how do you, how are you teaching your children the same thing? Is it God's kids or is it yours?

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Do you do you guys have any active discussions around money in your house? Is there a practice that you use that you you but to teach your kids about money?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, so we've done the whole thing again. I said uh Dave Ramsey's gonna come a few times a day, but there's a thing he has with kids where they work, they have to do chores, they get they get paid. Basically, they work on commission, right? You go do stuff, we'll pay like Noah. Anytime Noah wants he loves this thing called Brawl Stars on the iPad, where it's a game and you can buy digital gems. So this is like this is like Hunter asking me for Fortnite bucks. I'm like, what are you buying? I'm buying digital skins. Like, what the heck's a digital skin? Like, is it just pixels on a screen? That sounds dangerous. Well, it sounds to me like it has no actual value, right? Because it's just pixels on a screen. So, anyways, I'm like, all right, so basically now, if Noah wants some extra Brawl Star stuff that he doesn't get normally, he knows to come ask us what can I do. Right. Yeah, and that's that's a valuable concept.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

We do the same thing in our house. Um if if the kids want something over above and beyond a typical, like we don't make them buy their own shoes and then clothes, but uh, you know, they want football cards or they want um uh to I don't know, trying to think what else. Football cards is really the biggest thing that they're uh Hadley wants uh you know some sort of new makeup or something that's not needed. It's more of a want, a lotion, or something like that. You know, we we do. We we we pay for things above and beyond what a typical chore would look like. I don't pay to uh have them empty the dishwasher or make their bed or clean their room, yeah, but we do pay for things like weeding all the garden beds, uh mowing the yard. Um, I'll even pay for shoveling the driveway from time to time. So there's certain things kind of we we we like to do because I I want them to learn how to earn money.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Well, and I'll just say real fast, this is something I've seen over my career a few times. I still see it today. I'm amazed at, and don't get me wrong, I'm not against helping your kids. And I say this very carefully because everybody's future is unknown. But one thing I see, especially today a lot, is people enabling their children by providing almost everything they need financially. Do you know do you know, do you know why? Do you know why they do that? I'd love to hear your opinion.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

It's easy. It is easy. Yep. It's it's harder to tell your kids no. Yeah. It's harder to tell your kids, you know what? You're 21 years old. You you need to go. Yeah. That's I and I'm I'm not judging. I'm just telling you, I I know it's harder because I can picture it being harder. Yeah. I'm not there yet. My kids are still teenagers and they're not ready to leave the house yet. They're not mature enough. But I I can only imagine how hard it's going to be. Yeah. And I mean, even Dave Ramsey talks about this all the time. Like you can you are really being nice to your kids when you allow them to remain in your home beyond a certain time frame. Well, maybe it's a maturity level, maybe it's uh, you know, an age thing, but there are there are way too many adult children living in mom and dad's house.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Oh, man, I've seen 60 plus year old people getting taken care of by mom and dad still. I mean, it just boggles my mind. That's crazy. I'm like, this is insane. Now I'm like, what did we teach them? You know, like, and what are they gonna teach their kids? You know? So, anyways, I we're we've we've gone a lot already into this. But I also feel that again, it goes back to what we've said since the beginning here. This is all God's money. I'm not against helping. I think our system, our governmental system of how we help people was technically set up pretty close to the right a few years back where you you lost your job, you could go in unemployment, but it was a temporary thing. Right. You know, just like if I know my wife, she went through a divorce and I know she had to move back in with her parents on a temporary basis. Those are the things I think this is where I think as believers, this is what we're called to do. Go help out, right? Go go give to those in need, but it should be shouldn't be a forever thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Right. And there's there's a there's a thing in our society uh that we've lost, and it's this idea of dignity.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Um, dignity is a good thing. Um, I think you feel purpose when you work. I think you feel purpose when you're caring for yourself. I think you feel purpose when you're providing not only for yourself, but when you're providing for others. Yeah, there's a very honorable purpose. And it's whether you're barely making it or you have an abundance, there still is purpose behind earning your living. Totally. And that's something that um quite frankly, our government doesn't understand. Um, a lot of people um on the far left don't understand that. Um and and quite frankly, I think there's even some Christians that don't fully understand that. Um I think I think Christians are absolutely called to support those in need. Oh, yeah. Um, and I think the muscle of generosity doesn't get exercised when you have money. Yeah. I think it needs to get exercised as soon as your heart transforms and you love Jesus because Jesus was generous and God is generous to us. Yeah. And so um I I wanted to kind of close here, and I know we're just running out of time. This is something we could, I mean, we could do a follow-on podcast to this as we go dive deeper. But um, from the book of Malachi, um, I won't give all of the context to Malachi because I'm not a theologian and I don't want to mess it up. But bottom line is Malachi is the last book. It's the last time that a prophet is speaking to the uh Israelite people before 400 years of silence, and Jesus comes back to earth. And it's a confrontation between Malachi, which is speaking for God, God is speaking through Malachi, to the priests and how they've just misbehaved and they've misused God's name and they've they've cheated God. And it goes in and it and it says this in Malachi chapter three. In tithes and offerings, you are under a curse, your whole nation, because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the Lord Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates. Heaven here, let me read read that. I will throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe, says the Lord Almighty. Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land, says the Lord Almighty. Maybe we wrestle with how we control and handle our money after reading about how God says test us, test him.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

It's one of the only places in the Bible that I've ever read that God says, test me. Yeah, my mom brings that verse up to me all the time. So maybe we we close it with that. Wrestle with that verse. Yeah. And uh thank you for listening. Thank you.