Confident Again
Confident Again is for women navigating the aftermath of intimate betrayal who want less confusion and more clarity. Clear, compassionate, and grounded, it helps you cut through the fog, find your footing, and step back into strength with steady hope and quiet clarity. If you want betrayal healing wisdom to reconnect with your innate confidence, this podcast is for you.
Confident Again
The Gift in the Wound with Sharalyn Drayton
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What if the thing that feels unsurvivable could also become a pathway toward healing, self-connection, and transformation?
In this episode of Confident Again, Jane is joined by Sharalyn Drayton for a rich and hope-filled conversation about “the gift in the wound” — a phrase that gently points to the possibility that even deep betrayal pain does not have to be wasted.
This is not about minimising harm, rushing healing, or pretending betrayal is somehow good. Instead, Jane and Sharalyn explore how suffering, when held with safety, support, and time, can become a place where new strength, self-awareness, autonomy, integrity, and confidence begin to emerge.
Sharalyn shares from her decades of personal and professional experience in the betrayal trauma field, including her early work supporting women when there was very little language or specialist support available in Australia. Together, Jane and Sharalyn talk about survival, support, post-traumatic growth, the importance of safety and stabilisation, and the slow process of finding “diamonds in the muck.”
This episode is for you if you need hope that the pain you are carrying today is not the end of your story.
In this episode, we explore:
- Why betrayal can feel so isolating and unsurvivable
- The importance of specialist support and safe connection
- What “the gift in the wound” means — and what it does not mean
- Why safety and stabilisation come before meaning-making
- How suffering can become a pathway toward transformation
- The gifts of self-awareness, autonomy, voice, values, and boundaries
- Why healing is not about going back, but becoming more fully yourself
As Sharalyn says, what feels unsurvivable can become a pathway — and over time, the glints in the muck may turn out to be diamonds.
Sharalyn is connected with :
The Relational Recovery Centre Asia Pacific
SASA - help and training in New Zealand
Connect with Jane at Quiet Wisdom
Check out Reclaim your Confidence Group Support
Disclaimer: The content shared on Confident Again is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical, psychological, therapeutic, legal or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment, and should not be used as a substitute for individualised support from an appropriately qualified professional.
The experiences, perspectives and opinions shared by guests are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Jane Gibb or Quiet Wisdom. Every person and situation is different, and listeners are encouraged to seek professional support appropriate to their own circumstances.
If you are experiencing significant distress, trauma symptoms, concerns about safety, or compulsive or addictive sexual behaviour, please seek support from a suitably qualified health or mental health professional.
Hello friend. Welcome back to the Confident Again Podcast, a place to gain clarity and confidence for women who are healing from intimate betrayal. I'm Jane, and with my very special guest, Sharilyn, we'll be discussing a phrase that reframes suffering with purpose and hope. The gift in the wound. We're holding hope for you that your pain will not be wasted, that it has the potential to forge something within you that is beautiful and precious. Something that only the context of suffering can produce. I want to be clear that this conversation is not a whitewashing of wrongdoing and harm. Both Sherolyn and I share from the perspective of our own journeys. We've both discovered a depth of self-connection and power that we didn't know we had that came to light in the aftermath of betrayal pain. Sherolyn is a seasoned therapist and leader in Australia and New Zealand in the field of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. This conversation highlights that profound personal transformation is possible, even in and perhaps because of deep suffering and loss. If hope is what you need, this podcast is for you. Let's listen to the conversation. Well, today I'm super excited to have Sherolyn Drayton with me for a conversation about a topic that's really meaningful to me and I think has been meaningful to many people that Sharilyn has served over the years. I first met Sharilyn actually early in my own journey because she was the go-to person for betrayal trauma. And everything, all roads led back to Sharolyn when it came back to betrayal trauma in Australia. And so I um benefited from her, especially in my training in APSATS as a consultation supervisor. And I remember saying to her one day, I'd really like to tag along at one of your intensives and see what you do. And Sherolyn um looked at me and just said, Well, why don't you just come as a client? So I'm like, right, you're on. And I went to Passage to Power and it was a really powerful experience. And I remember being so um skillfully and beautifully served by Sherolyn and the team there at the Passage to Power retreat. So it's just a real delight to have you here today, Sheryl. And thank you so much for um being a guest on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me. I was wondering if, as we started off, you'd like to share a little bit about your own journey with this work in the betrayal healing space.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, interesting, interesting story in that um when I ended up working in this field, uh sex addiction hadn't been invented in Australia yet, let alone betrayal trauma. So it was back in the days of the old co-addict model. But prior to that, um I was working as a hospital chaplain. And during that time, I began to notice that many of the women I was working with would start to tell me the stories of their husbands and some of the issues they were facing. Um, and you know, they shared that they felt unable to tell others about some of these issues. Um and yeah, it was really an interesting observation. It really piqued my curiosity. Uh, and I thought, wow, there's lots of need out there for women to just be able to talk about what they go through in a safe way. Anyway, that that curiosity, um what did they say, curiosity or kill the cat? You know, I thought it might be for a while there, but um anyway, it led me to having to start to starting to explore my own story. Um, so subsequently, uh addiction, looking at addiction in my own family of origin with my husband, uh, and how my life had been impacted because of addiction. Um, no coincidences are there. So I um I was suddenly confronted with all of these realities, um which was ultimately life-changing for me. Um and then over time, other therapists who knew my story started sending women to me because they recognized that these women had a complex set of symptoms that didn't match traditional trauma. So uh it was really terrific that that these other therapists had the insight to do that, and that's how the support group phase began. Uh, with one other woman who a therapist sent to me and said, You two need to be talking to each other. And from one person it expanded to you know 12, 13 years and over 400 women, um, but all because other therapists started sending women to me. And then for many years I worked alone in this space. Uh, as you said, though there was nobody else working in this field originally, but um then I was lucky enough to discover Barb Steffens. So Barbara was the founder of Absats, and when I when I had made contact with Barb, um yeah, it was profound. So I I travelled to the US and to New Zealand to train with her. Um, and through Barb, really, I found my tribe. It was a really amazing experience. Um, I met a whole community of others working in the space, not in Australia but in New Zealand. There were more people working there and in the US. Uh, and doing the APSATS training with her gave me, you know, the structure and resources that hadn't been available until then. And so at this point, all these years later, it's so great to see the progress that's happening in this field now that uhsats trains online internationally. And there is now a much larger cohort of therapists and coaches, as you know, um, who've received specific training for this really complex type of trauma. More and more partners, uh, betrayed partners are seeking support as this addiction becomes more uh more awareness around it, uh, thanks to the internet. It's the fastest growing addiction. So it's it's fantastic to be able to offer support. Uh, and now that we have some great professionals working in the space, too, you know, it's it's awesome that partners are able to get real and meaningful support during a time that is probably the worst and most confusing and horrific time of their lives. So it's uh yeah, it's been quite a journey for me from back in the days when all they had was the co-addict model, uh, before Barb's trauma model um arrived, uh, and just to see the changes that have happened in the field in that time and the put the support that partners can now get.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, such a difference. And it gives me goosebumps, actually, as you tell your story, Sharilyn, because I heard a story of you hearing other people's stories as a hospital chaplain, giving you permission to look at your own story in a different light and then seek a different kind of help. And people seeing that you're growing and you've got some tools to address this, and and sending people to you when you didn't necessarily we didn't have APSATS training yet, but you had an interest and a lived experience and uh a willingness to sit with people. And 400 women serve through phase. I mean, that's incredible that the number of women whose lives have been touched by your willingness to go there and explore that story and uh discover ways to support people. And I really get what you're saying about when you met Barb, you'd found your tribe. I've had the same experience. There's something about the Absatz family where we sort of get each other because we understand some of the experience of aloneness and of disruption and of uh feeling unsafe in our primary relationship. That um, and and then discovering people that get us and hear us and the safety that comes with that. And then what it must be like for you to be seeing in a place where um you worked on your own um resources and helping other people and sort of growing your understanding and skills around that to now where you see this field is now growing here in Australia and in New Zealand. And um there's just so many people who need this kind of support. So I just like I said, it gives me goosebumps to think of the journey that you've been on and what an influence you've had on so many people because of your willingness to go there and and to share the things that you've learned with other people.
SPEAKER_00I think when I went through this 20 years ago now, um, as I said, sex addiction hadn't been invented in Australia yet. And so there was nobody that understood this, but I was just incredibly lucky that you know we had good therapists who were able to hold both of my husband and I in that space, and we both got really good help, and we were both 100% committed to doing the work. Um, so I I know I know the horror of not having the right support, of being alone, of not being able to tell anyone, of not knowing where to turn to. So I think it was always important for me when I had the opportunity to be able to say, well, hey, you're not on your own. You can survive this, you will get through this because it feels unsurvivable. I mean, I did not think I would survive the pain and the horror of it all. But to know that there are other people out there going through or having been through it, uh, I think provides that bit of a lifeline. And that's one of the things I love about support groups is that opportunity for partners to realize that they're not alone because this is so very isolating. And like those women that I originally met working as a hospital chaplain, when they shared things about their husbands and they couldn't tell anyone, particularly family. Um, you know, you you realize just how important it is to have that community of support where you're safe and you're not judged, and you can just bring your pain and your grief and just talk to people who get it, because nobody gets it like someone who's been through it, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, 100%. And it makes me think of I think it's Judith Herman who talks about healing cannot happen unless there's connection. And so creating that connection is such a beautiful gift. Yeah, absolutely. Now I've known you for a while, Sherolyn, and um, as I've met with you different times, I've gathered this little collection of sayings of Sherolyn Drayton. I actually have a Google Doc entitled Sayings of Sherolyn Drayton. And um one that often comes back to me, and I hear from others who have also met with you, is this saying, the gift in the wound. It's something that really grabs the attention around that in just you know, five words, it captures a really poignant and powerful message. So I'm curious about where you first learnt the saying and um does the saying have personal significance for you?
SPEAKER_00Um, yes, I think I have a reputation for some of my sayings. I remember one of my phase group women, they used to refer to it as my settings, things that Sharolyn said. Um the phrase the gift and the wound, although I don't think I'm the first person to coin that phrase, became obvious to me through my own recovery and healing journey. But um, and I don't know where I first heard it, but as I started to think about that that phrase, I came across a doctor in the US, uh, Dr. Reman, um, Dr. Rachel Reman, she's a pediatrician who's written a lot about alternative and integrative medicine. And she says that wounding and healing are not opposites, they're part of the same thing. And she refers to the hidden gift and trauma. Um, that when it's integrated, understood, and at least partially healed, it expands us and we'll never and we will never be the self we once were. I love that, you know.
SPEAKER_03You just said wounding and healing are part of the same thing. Did you say that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I did. The opposite ends of the same spectrum. Yeah, because what is healing without wounding? You exactly. You can't have day without night, you know. Yeah, so it's a really interesting concept. And Dr. Raymond points out that trauma forces us to stretch beyond what we thought possible, much like giving birth. But I love that. She says trauma tears us apart. And she's come to understand, and I totally agree with her, that the thing we think will destroy us actually has the capacity to enable us to grow in some amazing and unexpected ways. And that's what I really pull that together as what I call the gift in the wound. Um and I think early in my own journey, I remember thinking, you know, that my life was just this big pile of muck that felt like I was never gonna get through it. And then over time, you know, I realized that um I was starting to see the odd little glint in the muck. Um, and that little glint of light, you know, it could have been those moments of awareness around my own growth, which enabled me to connect better with myself, with my needs and with who I wanted to become. Um and there were moments when I was able to use my voice and grow in confidence, um, you know, around the belief that I should be able to have the kind of life I wanted to live, and that I had the right to have my needs met in order to live within my value system with integrity and authenticity. Those words became really key for me. Over time I realized that slowly, slowly, and this is a process that takes time. There's no, you know, I wish I could magic partners forward three to five years because the the the gifts in the wound are profound, but it takes time. Um, and then what I realized over time was as the muck slowly started to wash away, the only thing that was left were the diamonds, those diamonds of recovery. So the glints that I could see sparkling in the muck turned out to be diamonds. Um and I'll talk more a little bit about those a bit later on. But I um I think I share that story with a lot of my partners because I think it's important to know that what feels unsurvivable is really a pathway.
SPEAKER_03It really is a pathway. Can you say that again?
SPEAKER_00What feels unsurvivable is really a pathway.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Yeah. I mean that just feels like what what picture comes up for me is like it's the it's the jungle and you the this the thorny vines and and the muck that you're talking about and just where is the way forward? But the fact that it feels unsurvival is part of the opportunity for the pathway. Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. But it takes time to get there as well. Like in the beginning, you're just in survival mode. And I think that um, and that's okay, you know, there's no rush. There's no rush. This is a work in progress for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And part of it is people like you and me, I think, who have been on the journey longer, um, like calling back that encouragement to people are still sitting under the muck saying it's you can't see it now. But un there are diamonds on this journey. There are there are pieces of yourself that you'll discover because of the thing that happened to you that felt unsurvivable. And I can say that's true for myself too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and I feel excited for for opportunities, you know, but for partners. And I guess I've been doing this work long enough to see the the consequences for partners. So um, you know, and and it's great to be able to say you will survive this. It would have been helpful for me to hear that, you know, back in the day when I didn't think I'd survive. So to be able to share that as a lifeline for partners, I think is is really helpful at the beginning, those really scary early days, yeah. When you don't know which way is up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Can you unpack a little bit for us around why partners need to hear those words about the gift in the wound and what feels unsurvivable is actually a pathway forward?
SPEAKER_00I think um uh with the benefit of hindsight, you know, I can look back over my life and and the many challenges that I've faced. Um and for me, you know, I've come to believe that the only thing that makes sense of suffering is transformation. And I remember many years ago when I was doing my chaplaincy training uh at our graduation ceremony, we used uh uh uh the writings of uh um an incredible human being called Henri Nguyen. I'm not sure if you're familiar with his work, but he he's dead now. But he was an extraordinary man, and he wrote one of the books that we were using was called Life of the Beloved. And it's an absolutely beautiful book. Um, and it's broken into sections. It says how we're chosen and we're blessed and broken. Um, and he says that when we we're chosen and blessed, and when we have truly owned this, have said yes to it, then we can face our own and others' brokenness with open eyes. But the first step to healing is not to step away from pain, but to step toward it. We have to dare to overcome our fear and become familiar with it. He says that we have to find the courage to embrace our brokenness, to make our most feared enemy into a friend, and to claim it as an intimate companion. Our human suffering need not be an obstacle to the joy and the peace we so desire, but can instead become the means to what I call the pathway. So everything we live, be it gladness or sadness, joy or pain, health or illness, can all be part of the journey toward the full realization of our humanity. Um he goes on to say that the great spiritual call of the beloved children of God, and I love this, is to pull their brokenness away from the shadow of the curse and put it under the light of the blessing. What seemed intolerable becomes a challenge. What seemed reason for depression becomes a source of healing. What seemed a punishment becomes a gentle pruning. What seemed rejection becomes a way to a deeper communion. How beautiful is that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean it offers a real sense of hope. And you know, when you say that suffering is a pathway to transformation, and Henry Newen talks about befriending the thing, the suffering. Yeah. Um that's so counterintuitive. We live in a world, and it's sort of human actually, to want suffering to stop and to make it all go away. And some of us do that by fighting really hard, or some of us do it by like shoving it under the rug and ignoring that it's there. Um, and neither of those strategies um work in the long term. I can say that from my own experience. So the opportunity you're saying is to turn and face the suffering and engage it as a friend. And what does my suffering have to teach me? And you talked about bringing it from the shadow of I forget that word, the shadow of the curse to the light of the blessing.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Isn't that beautiful? I love that. And it kind of makes sense because suffering is part of our humanness. We are going to suffer, but we we live in a world that tells us we shouldn't have to.
SPEAKER_03A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00We live in a world that says if it hurts, fix it. If it if we don't like it, get rid of it. If it breaks, replace it. Um, so this idea of you know, and if we're unhappy, go on antidepressants, and I'm not knocking that, you know, that those things all have their place. But understand that you're supposed to feel terrible, your world just blew up. There's no way you're gonna be happy about this. This is a devastating and incredibly painful and brutal experience, and you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy. It is one of the hardest things that you'll ever go through. Um, but of course, you're gonna suffer because it is an impossible situation, but it's not gonna be for the rest of your life, it's for now, and it's what we do next that's important. So, with betrayal trauma, as a clinician, we work with clients who come to us because of what's been done to them. Um so it's helping them understand that, or it's helping people understand creating that safety, helping them understand that there is a way forward here. And that the only way to make for me to make sense of this is to use it, use it as a pathway. You know, he got you here, but what happens next is up to you.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's like that's a saying of that was a saying of Sharil and Drayton right there.
SPEAKER_00Another one, another one.
SPEAKER_03He got you here, but what happens next is up to you. And I can say for sh from my experience with clients, that feels so unfair that this thing happened to me because of somebody else's actions, and now I have to do something about it. And yet, what you're saying is that is actually the pathway forward, recognizing that that I actually have an opportunity here to step into something that will bring me towards healing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I hear, yeah, I hear partners say that they didn't do anything, so why should they have to change anything? And I totally get it, and you're absolutely right. And if you want to stay in that space, totally, I'll support you to do that. And you know, how can I help you stay there? However, if you want your life to be different, there's a saying in recovery that if you want things to be different, you've got to do something different. You don't really want the old relationship back because the old relationship clearly wasn't the relationship you thought it was. So you can't go backwards. Um, you can't stay where you are. So what are your options? You know, yeah. And there's a different sorry, I was just gonna say I'm only speaking from my own experience. This is what makes sense to me. Yes, I totally I totally get that might not be the same for everybody else.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and I think there's a difference between victim and victimhood. Yeah, I think that the experience of betrayal b by definition means that you're the victim of somebody else's choices and behaviors, yeah. And so there's a truth in that. Victimhood is now wearing that truth as this is my identity. Yeah. And I don't see a way other than staying forever a victim. And what you're saying here is the opportunity to step out of victimhood by recognizing there is a pathway, there's an opportunity that my relationship with suffering doesn't have to be one of I'm under it, but maybe I can befriend it and it can become something to me that um creates a space for my own transformation and growth in places I didn't know I needed it.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Absolutely. And we don't know what we don't know. So it's as we start to, you know, just put one foot in front of the other, start to move forward, start to be curious about the now and what can I do in this moment? What's the the next right choice for me? Um, yeah, things open up before you.
SPEAKER_03And that's a really, really helpful thing to say is what's the next right choice. Like we're just saying just one step.
SPEAKER_02Yep, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Just do now. Yeah, just do now. It doesn't have to be what are you going to do tomorrow. It might just be what you do today.
SPEAKER_00And sometimes that's all you can do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. One breath at a time. One breath at a time, for sure. Yeah, so uh as you as we're thinking about this and discussing, I'm wondering um what risks are associated with using the saying, the gift in the wound, which as you've you brought some quotes that are absolutely beautiful and inspiring, but are there some risks that might be associated with using the saying?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's an interesting question. Um I don't think there are. I don't think there are any risks for anyone using the saying or even contemplating this idea. However, how someone interprets this concept is very much part of the individual journey. Um, and you know, we can only work within our own capacity for now, but as we move forward over time, that capacity is going to change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I think when partners discover what's going on, the pain, confusion, and distress is profound. And, you know, as you know, I lost my son in a car accident a few years ago. And what I came to realize is that from that experience is what partners go through is right up there with the absolute worst and hardest experience of all time. Um, but you know, when I lost my son, nobody expected me to function normally. I got to talk about him, I got all lots of help and support. Whereas as a betrayed partner, you don't have any of that. Um, and partners need time to figure out how to breathe again before they can even start to do their own healing work. So, as I said before, this is a process that takes time. And in the early days, just figuring out how to get through and survive the moment is really all that you can do. And as I was saying, I think once safety is established in whatever way that looks like, and things begin to kind of settle down a little, then there's time to start to be curious about who is, what happened, why, and what next. Um, and that's the opportunity for partners to start to focus on themselves. And it's hard though, because our attachment and safety systems want us to focus on our significant other in order to re-establish that connection and comfort. And when we realise that as adults, this is time to start understanding who we are and how we want the rest of our lives to look, regardless of what happens with our spouse. Then, you know, the hope is that he will fully embrace recovery, do the hard work and become the husband he said he could be. You know, and we really hope that that's what will happen. But regardless, this is the moment we can also choose us. Uh, you know, as I said, what happened to us got us here, but what happens next is up to us. And I think that's my passage to power workshop is about helping partners connect with who they are and what got us here, um, and and how we move forward in our own integrity and authenticity. Um, and and what I love is that occasionally I receive messages from past clients who tell me that they finally get it. Um, and they're now, you know, gathering those diamonds. Um and you know, I'm always delighted when I get these messages because they're evidence of the phenomenal post-traumatic growth that is possible from this thing we think will destroy us. Um, because paradoxically, that becomes the thing that brings us to our fullest potential, but we also have to let it. You may be familiar with Richard Raw's writing. Um, I'm a big fan of his work. In his book, he wrote a book called Falling Upwards. His books have all got great titles. Um, and he was being interviewed about this book, and I I love this quote, I think it really captures what I'm talking about. He says, if you are lucky, catch this. If you are lucky, God will lead you to a situation you cannot control, you cannot fix, or you cannot even understand. At that point, true spirituality begins. Up to that point, it's all just preparation. And he's asked that if suffering leads to this transformation, he says, not always. Sometimes it just leads you to circle the wagons of your own little group. It depends on whether you deal with your suffering in a secular space or sacred space. The secular response to suffering is to fix it, control it, understand it, look for someone to blame. You learn nothing. Unless suffering pulls you into sacred space, it doesn't transform you, it makes you bitter. And I've heard it said that bitter or better both require the same amount of energy. But and again, partners have have get into this situation because the choice was taken away from them. So now this is that moment where they can claim the choice, they get to choose what happens next.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you just said a whole lot of really um rich stuff there, Cheryl. And and um, the quote from Richard Rohr about if you're lucky, something will happen that you can't control. And what comes up for me when you say that is also like as human beings, sometimes we have this false sense of power, like I can actually actually have control. And I've heard someone say somewhere, well, most days I can't even control myself, so why do I think I can control anybody else in the world, right? So um maybe it was maybe that's one of your saying, Sherilyn. Um, but yeah, just that idea that um it's actually that's a that's a lucky thing, according to Richard Raw, to be given something that I know I can't control. This is so big, this is so devastating, I can't control it.
SPEAKER_00I think, and I know from my own experience that, you know, they told me when my husband went into treatment for his addiction, they told me that the day would come when I'd thank the thing that got us there. And I remember thinking, I was outraged. I remember thinking, there is absolutely no way I will ever be grateful for this nightmare. But you know, they were right, and 20 years later, they were absolutely right. When we let suffering change us, miracles can happen. But I also totally get that not everyone will have this experience, it's a very individual journey over a long period of time, and I understand that sometimes it can feel easier and safer to hunker down, and as Richard Ross says, circle the wagons. Um, and I really encourage everyone to do what they intuitively feel is right for them in the moment, but trust that it doesn't have to stay that way. You know, survival is about getting through now, but over time, and that's why I love the word curiosity. I'm sure you've heard me say that before, but being curious about the future, about the life you want, even when it might be very different from the life that you thought you'd have, there are ways to open to possibilities. And I think it's allowing the curiosity in that helps broaden our awareness of who we are and who we can become. And I think it's really exciting that out of the ashes you can build this future that you didn't even know that you wanted. And I think you said before about um how suffering can change us, but yeah, none of us get here willingly, you know, none of us get here because we choose it. We, you know, I don't know about you, but all my clients come to me kicking and screaming. Uh, and I know that that's where I was, you know. It's like I thought I had it together. I mean, I thought we thought we had this great life, but it was so superficial, you know, on the surface it was, but there was all this other stuff that when it all flew apart, there was the opportunity for for growth and change. And I often say, when you don't have anything left to hold on to, what a great platform to rebuild from.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's true. I just want to come back to what you're saying about everybody's individual journey, and people can trust their intuition about what they need. And I wanted to just touch for a minute on the phases of the multidimensional partner trauma model and how the first stage is safety and stabilization. And sometimes we talk about betrayal as like being hit by a truck. And when you're hit by a truck, you're lying on the road, bleeding out, and you need all this assistance and support just to survive. And maybe that's not the time to say, well, one day I'll be so grateful for this gift in the wound. Yeah, you just have to survive, you just have to get to get to the hospital and get the support and get the get the drip in and all the things that you need because you're you're just surviving. And somewhere in there is that glimmer, right?
SPEAKER_00Of oh, absolutely. As I said, I was outraged when they told me that the day had come and I think the thing that got us into recovery. Like, you know, how dare you? You don't know my story, you don't know how devastating this is. You don't know that I've been hit by this truck and I'm lying on the road bleeding out. Absolutely. But I know, and that's where I think for me it's the gift of experience is um I know that it's true. And because I've lived it, that you know, I'm not making this up. Because I have this lived experience and I've walked the path. I think and any of us that have, you know, we we we're able to be kind of a guiding light, I think, for for people that are in that space where you don't know how to breathe and you don't know who to turn to because your normal support people are probably not the people that are going to be the right help for you in this situation. So having a therapist or a coach that can that understands the complexity of betrayal trauma, and it is so complex, it's so much more than than um traditional trauma. Um, but yeah, so safety and stabilization is yeah, just knowing that you've got a lifeline, that there's somewhere or someone who gets it that can and just helping you get through the now is yeah, is great one day at a time. Yeah, a hundred percent. And and then over time, over time, as things start to settle, then you get to have some more choices around what you want the future to be like. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And what I'm hearing too is I'm thinking about the model, I'm thinking, you know, the gifts of the wound, it's part of the work of doing the remembering a morning or that meaning making in the second phase of healing, where I sit with my story and I go through the pieces of the rubble of what happened. And I choose, I'm making choices about how I'm giving meaning to those pieces and understanding it. And those gifts begin to emerge and then they really shine when we get to that third phase of reconnecting to others and to ourselves. That's when those gifts might really emerge with more clarity.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I don't think you, you know, you just notice it one little one little thing at a time, really. Um, you know, you might notice that the connection feels better, or there's more presence, or you're able to use your voice more, or you're noticing what you're feeling or what you're needing, and you're asking for things around that. Um, and you just might notice little things that over time um start to come together, and you realize that you're growing into a more kind of solid version of yourself, if that makes sense. Yeah. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So can you unpack for us like what are some of those? You've you've highlighted some of them, but maybe just a little bit more. Um what are some of the specific gifts that might emerge from the wounding of betrayal?
SPEAKER_00Um, I think, you know, I as I reflect on that, I think self-awareness and autonomy are probably the major gifts because as women we're very focused on the other. You know, we're wives, mothers, sisters, daughters before we are ourselves. Um, and our sense of self is linked to how we care for, nurture, support, or do for others. You know, and we're generally much more aware of others' needs than we are of our own. So I remember the shock it was for me when I tried to connect with my own needs very early in the journey and realized that I didn't really know what they were. Um, and so how can we expect our significant other, or anyone else for that matter, to know what we need when we don't know what we need ourselves? You know, we're very good at investing our partners with psychic power. We think they should know what we need, uh, even when we don't. And when they don't know what we need, we get angry and resentful and hurt and think they don't, you know, we don't feel loved, um, which is a bit unfair, really. But when we learn to start naming what we need, what our values and boundaries are, you know, we're able to start living in a more authentic way and within our value system with safety, respect, and freedom. And we stop being hostages to the behavior of others. And that, I have to tell you, is a very liberating place to be. Can you say that phrase again? When we learn to start naming what we need, what our values and boundaries are, we're able to start living in a more authentic way within our value system with safety, respect, and freedom. And we stop being hostages to the behavior of others. That's the bit.
SPEAKER_03We stop being hostages to the behaviors of others. That's right. Because that's been that's our experience of betrayal. Exactly. I thought I was in a relationship. It's because it's because it's so relational, the relational, um the relational piece feels totally overwhelming and compelling because I need this person to be something for me, for my well-being. And you're saying that one of the gifts in the wound is this piece of I'm authentically connected to myself, I have the self-awareness and autonomy I need to take care of my own needs and advocate for my own needs, and I stop being hostage to somebody else.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that's probably the biggest gift in the wound because if we're waiting for him to get better, so we get better, that's all we are is a hostage, and then our future is dependent on somebody else, um, and that's not a safe place to be. I think the fear of my partner relapsing was so great, but also the reality that I can't couldn't control him. Your step one has admitted that I'm powerless over the other. And for me to live in that space and feel um a degree of safety meant I had to have a plan. So what if? What if he relapses? What will that mean for me? What will I do? How will I take care of myself? How will I protect myself from being a hostage and having to go through all of that nightmare again? So I think that for me it became a a natural progression that in order to be safe, um, I needed to know that I could take care of myself, that I could have a voice, that I could ask for what I need, that I did have the right to do those things. And I think when we realise that we're in a relationship because we choose to be, not because we have to be. It's it's you know, some of my clients tell me they feel very grown up eventually. And it is, it's liberating and it is freedom, and it is how we are supposed to live authentically, I think, without fear and and you know, and with safety, with freedom.
SPEAKER_03Yes, with with growing up comes a sense of responsibility to and you're saying that when your clients say they feel very grown up, it's that that piece of I can actually take care of myself, and I don't have to take care of other people.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely. I have the right to do what is best for me and respectful of others. It's um it's a really nice place to be. It's very empowering. It is extremely empowering.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and another word that comes up for me is differentiated. I know who I am.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and what a great relationship to be in. I mean, I think as you say, the trouble with with one of the the critical things with sex. Addiction and betrayal trauma is that this addiction is personal in a way that none of the other addictions are, and it has the relational component that's unique. So I think the healing process is learning to differentiate and and and find ourselves and our own identity and value in the space. Whereas often we grow up in an environment where we're taught that our value is linked to other people and to what we do and how we behave and how other people perceive us. One of my favorite sayings, another one, is that your value is not dependent on someone else's ability to see it.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah, that's a good one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's really important. And that's all part of this healing process that I call the gift of the wound. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it's that reconnection to my innate sense of value.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and not even a reconnection. Often for many partners, it is connection with that innate sense of value that they have been looking for other people to validate. And now they having walked through these flames, they they they can validate themselves. Because you know, if you survive, you will survive this, but that process creates that self-awareness and the knowledge that you are so much more than you realised.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Yeah, that's beautiful. Um, I'm wondering if you've got any specific examples of how you've seen this play out.
SPEAKER_00What a great question. I've got some beautiful examples. I love it when my clients send me messages. Often they'll be clients that I might not have seen for a while, but so many of them that I know who have walked this path have found themselves. And it is a constant joy. Uh, and these messages that I receive, I've collected them over the years. So I thought maybe I could just read you some of them. Oh, I'd love that. Um, yeah, and they just was they just I love it. I I have a file that I I keep of these things because it just fills me with joy. Somebody wrote to me and said, I finally found those wings and learned how to fly to no longer just survive but thrive. Because I always say, you know, this experience is an opportunity for you to find your wings and discover your own incredible power. So I love that. I finally found those wings. Somebody else said to me before, I felt like a rudderless ship lost and floundering. Now I have the confidence to take control, and although the journey has been hard, it's taught me so much. And I found strength that I didn't realize I had. Three years since disclosure, and it feels like another lifetime away, and I am happy. I feel strong, I'm verbalizing and getting my needs met, and can definitely feel the gift that came from that terrible trauma. Beautiful.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and this is another one of a couple more. As painful as this whole experience has been, for the first time I feel free and alive. Now I feel like I can breathe and focus on a new dawn that awaits me. But this one really made me smile. One client who sent me a photo of the actual diamonds, a ring that her and her husband had made to celebrate new beginnings based on truth and integrity.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you so much, Cheryl. And that just gives us a real picture of what's possible with um entering into the healing work, just doing like like you said, what's next, finding that support so you're not alone, and then also like at some level believing that this impossible um pain could be transformed into something as beautiful as diamonds. That's that's so beautiful. And you've painted some pictures for us too, around pathways, around wings, around freedom and um yeah, just the way that you've that those things will stay with me too. So thanks for sharing that, Sherilyn. As we're getting to wrap up, I'm just wondering if there's somebody who's in the midst of it right now. Maybe they're still in the muck and the pain. What words of betrayal, healing wisdom do you have for them?
SPEAKER_00I would absolutely encourage them to find someone who's properly trained and who understands the complexity of this devastating experience to work with. Um, because if they find someone who understands this, though that person will probably resource them. Um I would say it is essential to get good support and know that you're not on your own. Also learn everything you can about compulsive sexual behavior disorder, sex addiction, and know that it's about them. It's not because of anything you did. Um focus on your needs for safety and support and absolutely trust that you are amazing, capable, and stronger than you could possibly know. I think that's really important because partners feel so destroyed by what they've discovered.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And we need to hear that you're amazing.
SPEAKER_00They are, they are some of the partners that I've worked with are some of the most extraordinary women I ever had the privilege of meeting. They are incredible. I've often said sex addicts have great taste and partners, they choose amazing women. I don't know how I feel about that one, Sharilyn, but yes. They do, they choose strong, capable, amazing women.
SPEAKER_03But definitely my my experience is that women who are going through this are amazing and you're amazing. And I'm amazing. You are so we are we are the people who have learned to reconnect with ourselves and still on the journey. Yep, absolutely. Yeah, from that, uh, what does Richard Rore say? If you're lucky, you'll get something that you can't possibly control. And we've had that experience.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And that you won't even understand. Yes, and at that point, change starts to happen. Yeah, yes, yeah, that's really powerful. Thank you. Well, I think trusting the process is is key, really. Trusting that it is a process and you will come out the other side, and that there is a gift in the wound somewhere in there. Multiple gifts in the wound, that's right.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah, that's right. So, are there any services and supports that you'd like our listeners to know about today?
SPEAKER_00Uh, as I said, I think if they find a good uh therapist who understands sex addiction and betrayal trauma, then they will be resourced uh with information and programmes and sort of the different things that are available. Um, but there's also Women's Healing Sanctuary, which is my um not-for-profit that I started after my son died. As you know, it's near Newcastle, so it's only two hours from Sydney and it's accessible by public transport and plane. We've had people from all over Australia come stay there, we've had people from New Zealand, which has been fantastic. So it's a safe place uh for any woman to stop and just catch a breath. And sometimes you just we just need when we don't know how to breathe. You know, partners have been in an enormous emotional car crash, so it's really important for them to take time to try and make sense of something that just doesn't make any sense at all. And women are not good at taking care of themselves, and generally will put everyone else's needs before their own. So it's important to remember that even though he may be the identified patient, she needs to be resourced also. So, you know, generally she's the one that um that's continuing to care. And I use she and he as the pronouns, but that's not to say all partners are female and all addicts are male, it's not that's not the case. But you know, generally the partner is the one that's still got to do the laundry and do the grocery shopping and get the kids to school and go to work, and and their world is blown up, but they've still got to continue to do all the normal day-to-day stuff, um, after even after their world's exploded. So I think I really encourage any partner to remember that self-care is not selfish, it's the bare minimum that you need to help you through this impossible time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so get online, I'll put the link in the show notes for the sanctuary, and um maybe you could make a booking for yourself to go there if you're listening to this podcast. That would be amazing. It's a beautiful um nurturing space. So, yeah, thank you, Cheryl. It's been so great to talk to you about this topic of the gift and the wound and um just be pondering how to feel more empowered as I think about how there might be uh that place to have a positive relationship with my suffering that brings it to the light of blessing. So thank you so much for sharing.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Jane. It's been a pleasure to spend some time with you. It's been lovely, thank you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for joining me today for this inspiring conversation with Sheroline Drayton. If you picked up something that helped you, rate and review the episode and share it with a friend. Sheroline is connected with a few resources that may be of interest to you. The Women's Healing Sanctuary near Newcastle in New South Wales is a quiet space for women to get away and be cared for. The Relational Recovery Centre Asia Pacific is a space for individuals and couples seeking help to heal from sex addiction and betrayal trauma. And SASA, sex addiction specialist at Altea Roa, is a place for training and support in New Zealand. If this podcast has given you hope and you'd like to get in contact with me, check out my website quietwisdom.com.au to leave me a message or join my support group waitlist. Check the show notes for links to all of these resources. Until next time, gently does it with your beautiful self.