(Community Matters 193) Scam Alert: Calhoun County Deputies Won't Call and Demand Payments - Hang Up and Verify

Detective Sergeant Kelson Gettel from the Battle Creek Police Department talks about a wave of phone scammers posing as Calhoun County deputies and pressuring people to pay fake fines. He lays out the red flags, why Bitcoin ATMs and gift cards are the giveaway, and the one move that protects you most: hang up and verify. 

Episode Resources

Battle Creek Police Department Website

ABOUT COMMUNITY MATTERS
Former WBCK Morning Show host Richard Piet (2014-2017) returns to host Community Matters, an interview program focused on community leaders and newsmakers in and around Battle Creek. Community Matters is heard Saturdays, 8:00 AM Eastern on WBCK-FM (95.3) and anytime at battlecreekpodcast.com.

Community Matters is sponsored by Lakeview Ford Lincoln and produced by Livemic Communications.

Transcript

Welcome And How To Subscribe

Richard Piet 0:02

Welcome to Community Matters. This is it on Saturdays 95.3 FM. Anytime. BattleCreekPodcast.com. You'll find us where our podcasts gather as well. Those directories like Apple and Spotify. Just search Community Matters, Calhoun County, and follow us there. You'll get a little notice when these episodes come available.

Sheriff Impersonation Phone Scam

Richard Piet 0:24

We're kicking things off this week with a scam alert. Information you need to know. Folks out there who are trying to scam you out of your money, and they're trying by way of the telephone. Here to talk about that, Detective Sergeant Kelson Gettel with the Battle Creek Police Department. Hello there.

Kelson Gettel 0:46

How are you doing, sir?

Richard Piet 0:47

Well, thank you. Better if these uh things wouldn't happen, but of course they do. These are actually folks calling saying you owe money from the uh sheriff's office.

Kelson Gettel 1:01

Yes, these scams have been going on now for several months. These are scams where they're able to learn a little bit about the area and they'll use actual deputies' names. They'll scam the phone number to make it look like it's actually coming from a Calhoun County uh representative phone number. And when they do that, those are simple things that people can quickly check. They know that, and that makes people feel a little more confident that they're following through with the right process. But at the end of the day, they're trying to scam you out of doing things with your finances that are not good. So trying to get the word out there to everybody to allow them to understand these things are going on and hang up and verify on your own is kind of what we've been saying around here.

Richard Piet 1:46

Yeah. So remember that if you remember anything, when you get a call like this, you're not sure, hang up and verify. And we'll expand on that here in a second. First, though, what are they actually saying to get people to buy into this?

Kelson Gettel 2:00

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to hear the actual audio that's being discussed from talking to the victims that we've been able to work with. They're saying they're very good at what they do. They're trying to pressure you into going and figuring out that uh you owe five or six thousand dollars or even more higher amounts of money, saying they're for missing jury duty or anything that would be related to the courthouse, you know, uh unpaid tickets, various different reasons, and because of the added pressure they can add through the phone and make you feel like if you don't take care of this now, there's going to be repercussions. People get concerned with that, so they they want to make sure they're taking care of it.

Richard Piet 2:38

Wow. So a person can be convinced that they miss jury duty and they owe a penalty, or they have tickets they haven't paid, even if they haven't seen any official paperwork about any of that.

Kelson Gettel 2:52

That's right. Yep. Unfortunately, that is the case. And I think people they're good enough at what they do. They're they're experts, it's what they do for their living, and they can pressure people into believing something as simple as that. And you know, people haven't been pulled over in years, but somehow they have this ticket that's out there, and they're good salesmen when it comes to that. So yeah, they can get talked into it, unfortunately, because they're asking for lar large sums of money, and it's not something that uh a lot of people can live without. So

Gift Cards And Bitcoin ATM Trap

Kelson Gettel 3:25

all right.

Richard Piet 3:25

So what are they asking for? They apply this pressure, they want the money. What are they typically going to uh say or a path they're gonna follow to get you to to follow through?

Kelson Gettel 3:38

Because they're scammers, they're not gonna be able to meet with you in person. Fortunately, at this point, we haven't been able to identify the source or where it's even coming from. Typical scams, though, like these, can be generated overseas. They can come from other states here in the United States. Because we haven't been able to track these down, they're difficult to do. We're not sure where they're coming from. But that being said, they're not gonna be able to meet with you in person. They're gonna try to keep you on the phone as long as possible. They'll be asking you to pay in a variety of different ways. The ones that we've seen recently are through Bitcoin machines, and they'll give you your QR code or a number to be able to type in and basically take your funds and directly put it into their Bitcoin Coinbase. And uh the other ones are gift cards. Go to the go to the store and buy certain gift cards, scratch off the code on the back and give them code. Um, and then they're keeping a tally. So anytime they're hearing, you know, Bitcoin machines, go to this uh Bitcoin machine at a gas station here in Battle Creek or go to a store and start buying gift cards, that's a good way for you to to reduce the amount of money you owe. That should be a huge red flag of hang up and verify because the county, the city of Battle Creek, they're not gonna be asking you to pay in that way. They're gonna want you to either come down to the courthouse or there's proper online secure websites that they use to pay for these types of things. So, yeah, if you're hearing those types of requests, those are not going to be coming from officials that work uh in either agency.

Richard Piet 5:05

And of course they ask for that because that's the easiest mode of financial gain for them when they're somewhere else.

Kelson Gettel 5:15

Exactly. That's the easiest way they can get money quickly and use it without really being traceable. You know, they try to avoid that they know they're experts in this and they know what things that we can investigate and we can look into and kind of follow the the trail of breadcrumbs. But for this situation, that they kind of understand how these financial places work, like Bitcoin, for example, or a coin, any kind of Coinbase and gift cards. You know, the the trackability with those, once you have the number on the back of the card, you're not it's not showing you where it's being used. So it's a lot more difficult to track down and figure out where is the stuff being utilized and these numbers. So they understand all that and they know, and it makes it extremely difficult on the investigator.

Why Money Is Hard To Recover

Richard Piet 5:57

This is one of the pillars you can lean on, isn't it? I mean, uh rarely will someone call you out of the blue, if ever, and say, you owe this and pay me with a gift card.

Kelson Gettel 6:10

Exactly. And that's the scams in general. I know we're talking specifically about the uh the scammers that are are acting as Calhoun County deputies or law enforcement specifically, but scammers in general, and and right now that seems to be are a lot of our fraud cases are scammers. And because they're so difficult to stop, that's why I want to get the word out as much as I can. Because the best way to stop it from happening is educating people and and letting them understand that if you can stop it from the start, you won't fall victim to something with your finances, where for us it's extremely difficult to recover the money and and then on the other end prosecute.

Richard Piet 6:48

I suppose it's testimony to how prevalent this is. Sometimes you go into a store and you want to buy a gift card, and there's a little alert right there on the display of gift cards, it says you may be the victim of a scam.

Kelson Gettel 7:02

Yep.

Richard Piet 7:03

Uh folks in stores see this so much now that there is an alert right there on the gift card display trying to warn you. Think about it now. If you're being told to buy gift cards and send them to someone whom you don't know, or at least you think you might, right? It may be a scam. This is how prevalent this is.

Kelson Gettel 7:25

Exactly. The Bitcoin transactions are also uh difficult because once it's on the blockchain, there's a there's a way to get that information, but then where it goes beyond that is is kind of a mystery. So these things are trackable, they're just extremely difficult to do. And then once even if we were to get the information, it'd be even harder than prosecute them in our city or county. So that's why we try to get as much of this information as possible to try to track down and figure out if they're coordinated or not with each other. But going to a Bitcoin machine here in the city, if someone is directing you there, that's a giant red flag that it's a scam. A lot of I guess coin transactions are occurring on Coinbase or other applications. If you have Bitcoin and I have Bitcoin and we're going to do a transaction, I would I would go to you on Coinbase. I wouldn't request you to go to an ATM. And that's I think an important thing for people to remember is if you find yourself driving to the store because they're they're directing you there, use caution because a lot of times it's not what you think it is. It's probably a scam.

Richard Piet 8:31

How difficult, it sounds like it's very difficult, is it to get folks' money back? Have you ever seen in your experience that happen?

Kelson Gettel 8:41

Yeah, but it's not, uh it wasn't our agency. It was actually uh somebody that was in a different agency recovered the money and the person lived here in Battle Creek. So they were able to get scammed somewhere else. But it's it's very, very unlikely that we're gonna be able to do that because once you track it down, if you're able to get it tracked down, it's hard to recover it back. It it changes hands so quickly. And there are, if you can do it quick enough, there's a chance that we can stop that payment from happening altogether. Sometimes you'll see uh an uh uh something that's pending on your bank account that's it hasn't fully made its transaction. Maybe there's a small chance we can get in front of that and call the bank and work with them now that they know there's a an investigation occurring. But a lot of times those transactions happen so quickly we're not able to get in front of it. Once it's been sent, it's changing hands so quickly that it's too hard to track down. We're too far behind.

Richard Piet 9:37

It is exactly why this has been so successful. How did this get on your radar? Were you getting a fair amount of people reporting it? Or uh somebody said, Hey, you know, I got a call from somebody saying they're a they're a police officer or officer of the court or something, and that's how you learn about it. How does this get to you?

Kelson Gettel 9:58

Well,

How To Verify And Report Safely

Kelson Gettel 9:59

recently it's just been calls of victims calling the police department, letting them know we've seen a trend with the particular motive of the scammers to use um law enforcement names, law enforcement phone numbers. And that's why I feel it's necessary to get the information out. Anytime we kind of see a trend, and especially when it comes from a law enforcement start point with the scammers, we want to get that information out. Anytime anybody hears uh law enforcement, they want to comply that there's trust there that we're doing or trying to do what it is that we're asking. And there should be some trust there. We want to let people know like there's ways to verify this information. Two years ago, there was a very similar scam that occurred. I think that was eventually broken up and they got to the bottom of that. But it wasn't our agency, it was in in conjunction with other state and federal agencies that uh that assisted. So it wasn't us that started it, it wasn't us that finished it, but there was a very similar motive for the scam that was figured out.

Richard Piet 10:58

All right. So you get a call, it's someone claiming to be from the sheriff's department, let's say, and uh they want you to pay up. Here's where the hang up and verify slogan comes into play. You don't even have to be polite, just put the phone down and be done with it.

Kelson Gettel 11:17

What I would suggest is, you know, if you have a couple of questions that you want to ask to try to figure out if they're really who they are, there's some things that you can do to try to verify that. Anytime it's over the phone, it's difficult. Once they start pressuring you, and once there's a few questions deep where you're continuing to say this doesn't feel right, that's where I would say, you know what, I have the control over here to hang up this phone. I know the phone numbers to Calhoun County. If you don't, they're online. Feel free to pick them up. And if you're calling, saying you you've got an unpaid ticket to take care of, call that particular court, call them, ask them questions about uh, you know, do I have any unpaid tickets? And they'll be able to get you the real information. But don't just look at your caller ID, don't take their name and think that I know that that's a deputy with uh Calhoun County or an officer with Battle Creek, verify that information before you pull out any money and try to transaction, do it any kind of transaction.

Richard Piet 12:12

That is uh the bottom line here is that if someone's calling you demanding money and pressuring you, no matter who they say they are. Right. Uh this has to be a verify situation. And you know, that approach is just not going to be common outside of criminal elements, I would say. I would go out on a limb and say, uh, particularly if they're saying they're from a law enforcement entity, they're gonna be on the phone pressuring you to pay.

Kelson Gettel 12:40

We all get those phone calls of, you know, people that are trying to sell you something. They're very, very, very good at what they do. And a lot of people say, you know, how does this happen? I wouldn't ever let that happen to me until you're in that moment. And uh I would just let everybody know that may have been victims of this or may potentially be a victim in the future. Like, this is not embarrassing. We've all been through those types of phone calls where you may get pressured into doing something that you know you don't want to do. Don't be embarrassed by that. It's our job to try to figure out what's going on here. But I can understand how people would feel like how do you let that happen to you? Until you're on the phone with these individuals who are really good at selling themselves and what they're trying to do, they're gonna make it seem as real as possible. So that's where I divert back to the control that you have, which is hanging up that phone, verifying on your own. You're not gonna get in trouble for that. If it really is Calhoun County or if it really is the Battle Creek Police Department, you have the control. As long as you want to follow through with it, that's what we ask. Because we're not gonna ever request phone be paid over the phone. We're gonna give you options to pay online or come inside to do that.

Richard Piet 13:42

So all right. Do you encourage folks, even if they they get a call like this and say, yeah, this is a scam, hang up. Do you still want to hear from them even if that scammer didn't get very far?

Kelson Gettel 13:56

I totally leave that up to the individual. If they don't call, they're not doing anything they shouldn't do. Some people like the the extra vote of confidence that they either made the right decision or or just to double check that that was the correct way to do it. So if you do that, we have an online reporting system that you are more than capable of going to and trying to fill out. If not, uh you can call and our dispatchers call the call the non-emergency number for our Calhoun County dispatch, and they'll get you to our telephone response unit who can take the information. We know it's going on, and we're trying to focus on those that have been victimized the most that we can. So we want to hear from everybody if they want to tell us what happened. But if no money's been transacted, then there's no reason to make a report. So I totally leave that up to the person.

Richard Piet 14:43

They may decide they want to tell you anyway, just because there could be a nugget of information in there that's helpful.

Kelson Gettel 14:49

Exactly. And if if that's what they want to do, I totally encourage them to do that. It could help us out. We're very focused on trying to, you know, spend all of our investigative time with with the individuals that are being victimized, and not that they're not important or that case isn't important, but if no money's been exchanged hands, it's not as of there's no crime. So, but there could be things or information that that could be helpful. So feel free to go online and uh uh Battle Creek online reporting system andor calling the dispatch center, the not emergency number, and and requesting that uh report be taken.

Richard Piet 15:22

All right, and we'll put the links to that in the show notes for this episode at battlecreekpodcast.com so you can just click through if you need to. Boy,

The Bigger Fight Against Scammers

Richard Piet 15:31

this must at times give you the feeling that you're chasing your tail, right? I mean, you uh you got all these reports of this kind of activity. You want to do it the due diligence it deserves, but as you pointed out, it's very difficult to resolve this in the way that you might resolve some other kind of crime that you're investigating, maybe a more traditional kind, shall we say? And so this has to be difficult.

Kelson Gettel 15:59

Yes, it's frustrating because they know how to do this, they know how to get around the system and they know the institutions are set up to investigate things a certain way. But there's also systems out there that are secretive and and harder to track down, and that's good for the consumer in in some areas, but in others, uh people take advantage of that. So, like any good tool, it can be used for good, it can be used for bad. And unfortunately, if that does feel like we're chasing our tail. We work with uh state and federal entities uh constantly with these bigger cases, and usually they have the resources and they have the ability to assist us in trying to come to a good resolution. Now doesn't mean you're getting your money back necessarily, but it could stop it from happening to the next person.

Richard Piet 16:41

Yeah. Do you see these things going waves? I mean, I would imagine that uh these scammers figure out entry points like this whole I'm from the sheriff's office thing, right? Uh, and I can spoof the number, and then maybe we catch up in terms of uh finding ways to stop it, and then it calms down for a while, and then some other new thing comes along, or do you see this consistently?

Kelson Gettel 17:04

I think scams are up without looking at the numbers definitively, but uh from the the cases that are assigned to our office, a lot of them are from scammers, and uh I do see an uptick in that. You know, AI is another one of those tools that can be used for a lot of really, really good things to help society, but can also be used to hurt people. And I think as that advances, it's gonna be a little bit more difficult. Uh, and scammers are gonna use that to their advantage. And I don't know exactly how they're scrambling the number to make sure that it's coming from the Cowan County Sheriff's Department, but those are some of the things that they're ahead of us on, at least understanding it, so we can try to stop that from happening and try to try to stop those little things that uh people feel secure about, you know, caller ID, people's gang, that kind of stuff. So right.

Richard Piet 17:51

Yeah, we sure do rely on that. Or we we've had a long time to rely on that and get used to it, the caller ID thing.

Kelson Gettel 17:58

It's just it's always good to question it, you know.

Richard Piet 18:01

You're working in conjunction with the sheriff's department on this, right?

Kelson Gettel 18:05

Yes, I've talked with them, they've it they've investigated some of these as well, uh, made them aware, and just you know, hey, we're investigating numerous crimes where they're using your guys' phone numbers, as at least that's what's showing up on the caller ID. Uh, they're using deputies' names, uh, so they're aware of it and they're trying to work with us to get to the bottom of it.

Richard Piet 18:26

All right. So if you remember anything from this discussion, uh suspicious calls come through, and they may not seem suspicious in the beginning, they may sound legitimate, uh, but you can hang up and verify and not go any further, particularly when they start pressuring you for money. It is likely not legit. So hang up and verify. All right, sergeant. This is uh good information. Let's stay in touch on this.

Kelson Gettel 18:54

We'll do. Thank you, sir.

Richard Piet 18:55

Sergeant Kelson Gettel, Battle Creek Police Department on Community Matters.