Episode 4: Strengthening Community Safety Through Violence Intervention

Host: Shakita LaGrant-McClain

Guests: David Muhammad, DHHS Deputy Director; Reggie Moore, Medical College of Wisconsin Director of Community Safety Policy and Engagement

DHHS Executive Director Shakita LaGrant-McClain is joined by Reggie Moore of the Medical College of Wisconsin and DHHS Deputy Director David Muhammad for a conversation about Milwaukee County’s collaborative approach to community violence intervention. Together, they discuss how public health strategies, credible messengers, and evidence-based programs are working to prevent violence and support healing. From hospital-based intervention to community-led mentoring, this episode highlights how partnership and prevention can help build safer, healthier communities.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Welcome to this episode of the DHHS Podcast: Conversations to Creating a Healthy Community. I have the pleasure of being joined by Reggie Moore. He is the director of the Division of Community Safety Policy and Engagement at the Comprehensive Injury Center for the Medical College of Wisconsin. Welcome, Reggie. Thank you. Thank you for being here with us today. I am also joined by our own Deputy David Mohammed. Thank you for being with us today, David.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

So today, we are going to discuss the incredible work around community violence intervention that Milwaukee County and our partners have been doing over the last several years. Since 2020, Milwaukee County has worked toward a vision of community violence intervention, collective impact with strategic investments and partnerships in the coordination around gun violence prevention and community healing. Community violence is a matter of public health. It requires a coordinated approach between government and community partners. So we're going to start with you, Reggie. If you don't mind, we're going to ask a couple questions. You have held multiple positions in the community violence intervention space, including your current role at uh the Medical College of Wisconsin. Can you talk about how you have seen this work evolve in the past five years?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

It's really been amazing, really watching the evolution of this movement. When I started in 2016 leading the Office of Violence Prevention at the time, um in the city of Milwaukee, I believe there were only, you know, four or five offices of its type around the country, and now there's over 140. Um and there are very few counties who were strongly involved in this work. Um and when I look around the country now and even looking in my own backyard in terms of Milwaukee County, um, you know, it's really been powerful to look at the work that Milwaukee County has led. Um, and the fact that it was, you know, really animate in adopting not only being involved in the development of the Blueprint for Peace, but actually adopting it officially in terms of as legislation and guiding its work. Um and under David and your leadership here at the county, really looking at how do the services and programs within DHHS align with the goals and strategies of the blueprint that were called for by the community. Um and so the fact that you have this sort of continuity of commitment to addressing violence as a public health issue is something that I think number one that Milwaukee and Milwaukee County should be proud of, um, and that other cities and counties um should also emulate.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

You have been a leader in this space. I just want to thank you for your work and your leadership and your commitment and dedication. Like this has been the work you've been doing for years, right? Talk about you brought up the blueprint for for peace. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah. So uh the blueprint uh was a process that uh was developed in or the process launched in 2016 in terms of its development and then officially launched in terms of its completion in 2017. Um and David Mohammed uh here was uh also the uh violence prevention manager at that time in the Office of Violence Prevention. And it really was an effort to engage the community in defining the priorities uh for violence prevention in Milwaukee as a public health issue. And so it resulted um in six goals and 30 strategies for doing exactly that. And those strategies encompass everything from child um strengthening children, youth, and families to restorative justice, economic development, um, as well as increasing the capacity and coordination of violence prevention programs in the city. Um and we see examples of that today in Forum for Life, the Credible Messenger Partnership, VR Fast, um, among many others. And so um sometimes people will question well, what happened with the blueprint? Um and so I would encourage those people to look around. Um, and I think that we see evidence and impact of the blueprint every day, and we definitely want to encourage people to get involved. Um, but also we have also been in conversation with our partners, um, both at the county as well as at the city and in the community around updating the blueprint because we understand, you know, COVID-19 um dealt an unfortunate blow, not only to Milwaukee, but cities around the country that experienced unprecedented levels of gun violence. Um, and so data has changed, um, but at the same time, the resolve of the community has not in terms of addressing this issue.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Yeah, I always talk about when we had put our strategic plan together, I was like, I don't want anything that you just sit on the shelf. And I think this 414, like this blueprint, I've seen everywhere I go, someone has this document somewhere, right? So when you talk about you don't want something to sit on the shelf, you want to be able to operationalize it, you want it to be normalized in the community, and you talk about when you just look around, when you look around, you'll see evidence that this work is still happening. I just think that's a part of the leadership that you both have done so just done the work to continue to lead that and live by it, right? To model what it looks like. So, David, in 2020, okay, you led the effort to bring credible messenger programs to Milwaukee County. Can you talk about why transformative mentoring for you provided through the you know credible messenger program is such a crucial CBI strategy?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Well, it's evidence-based. We know it works. It works um in other areas. We know it goes by other names such as peer support or uh in the behavioral health or substance use space. But people tend to think about gun violence only from the lens of uh punishment or accountability in that regard and not transforming the trauma that many people uh are experiencing that leads them to do harm to others in the community. And so the Credible Messenger program believes that early intervention and getting involved in a young person's life who is at the greatest risk of using a weapon or being victimized by one is essential and produces good outcomes. What we saw is that uh we started our pilot in 2020. We had actual staff from uh CYFS at the time who went to uh other cities and saw it in practice elsewhere, and they saw that these people with lived experience, people who were formerly incarcerated, folks who had been involved in gun violence, who had transformed their life, and now were being a positive influence in the community, could be of an uh asset inside of the detention facility. We did it almost opposite. We started from the outside, now working in, where we brought folks to the table with lived experience, because at the time it was difficult uh to get them into the facility because of some policies that needed to be changed, and because of contracting and and some of the challenges in in regards to diversifying our provider network. We did that. We brought together a lot of partners, uh, we uh settled on five agencies who were committing their staff to be trained uh as professional interventionists and followed evidence-based models uh because just having lived experience isn't enough. You you have to be a positive, responsible, caring adult to be in the presence of young people. And we identified the five agencies at the time, now it's six, and they became uh credible messengers and took on a caseload. And at the time, Reggie and I were having conversations. We were like, hey, I got young people in the detention facility here on gun charges. Um we can do something now. And and as was stated earlier about the blueprint, we believe strongly that it is the resilience factors, strengthening resilience factors, such as housing, um, education, employment, um, support in terms of food and stability and things like that, that when you meet those basic needs, then you can have leverage to have behavioral change when you pair it with a sense of love for self. The problem is a lack of love for self and a lack of love and security in the environment. So people feel insecure. They don't reach up for a greater sense of their own identity, they reach out or down for some type of weapon to cause harm to somebody who is making them feel insecure. And so creating that stability in a community is what Credible Messengers is all about. They do much more than just respond to breaking up fights and social media beef. They're getting people clothes, making sure they get to work, making sure they get to school and helping their families.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Reggie, 414 Life is a hospital-based violence um intervention program, and it's implemented through your office, MCW, right? Um, and so 414 Life is also part of the Credible Messenger Messenger Program. What is it unique about the work that 414 Life does?

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Right. I would say as a community and hospital-based um program, which, you know, some models are just strictly hospitals, some are community. I think as a hybrid-based model, I think we're uniquely positioned to not only respond in terms of the community and working with some of the other frontline organizations to intervene and mediate conflicts, but also um respond to families at the hospital and be able to provide that support because oftentimes the retaliation emotions are high, and retaliation planning starts in the waiting room, um, where the nephew or the friend or loved one is like, I know who did this or I know what happened, and they're running out the door. We try to slow down that process, provide supports and resources. We rely a lot on the county and the resources that you all provide, um, especially as it relates to housing and also mental health supports. And so, you know, this is in terms of the ecosystem, we can't do this by ourselves. Um, but I think every partner involved in the ecosystem brings a very unique perspective. And I think the work that 414 Life does in that regard, both on the street side as well as in the hospital, is really important.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

Yeah, we always talk about together creating healthy communities, and we always say we can't do it alone. I mean, we need the support 414 Life. There's so many different entities in order if we want to truly create a safe community, right? If we want to reduce gun violence, if we want violence intervention to be, we want to have impact, we have to work together, right? We have to put all the egos to the side. We talk about this all the time, right? Put all that to the side and really place the people that we're serving in the center, right? And so I just all the work that you all are doing and our collaboration, I think, has been really key to the success we have had here at the county. So I just thank you for your leadership uh there as well. Um, David, I do have a question regarding, so Milwaukee County, we also launched the evidence-based gun violence prevention program, advanced peace, and we did that at the end of 2024. So this is a highly specialized program and was a major, it was major for us to get this here in Milwaukee County. We, I mean, we have been talking about it for a while, and I think even when you uh we launched the Credible Messenger Program in 2020, you were talking about this at that time as well. And so it took us a few years to get this launched, and there is a lot of work that happened. Can you tell us about this national model um that we have here and how the program is being implemented here?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Absolutely. Well, we as you stated, we started in late 2024. Um the model is based out of Richmond, California, and it's in about eight to ten cities. Uh, it has uh a unique uh build uh in terms that it has seven uh touch points. Some of it includes transformative travel, uh life skills or life coaching in terms of creating a plan for success for individuals, and uh creating uh a daily uh contact, at least three points of contact a day from the staff of the program, in addition to connecting them to resources, uh behavioral health supports. I think that's key because oftentimes when we talk about gun violence, we neglect the psychological toll that it takes on a community and the the experiences of seeing somebody shot or having been shot or or having been formerly incarcerated and not knowing how to navigate society in a in a peaceful way and and coexist. And so for us, this was uh a way to do violence prevention with a behavioral health focus and to work with those who are closest to uh the problem. This is a fellowship model that focuses on individuals who have been involved in gun violence. Um, and uh, you know, one of the things that we're looking for, uh, we don't necessarily speak against, you know, the level of insecurity that might lead them to feel like violence is a pro-social response. What we try and do is take that uh and dismantle that kind of thinking that you don't have to respond violently. Here's other ways of having connections. And what we've seen is people feel safer in the community. Uh uh over 50 uh percent said they are no longer caring or using a weapon. Uh many of them have reported uh improved health con uh uh health as well as mental wellness. And we have a cohort of about uh between 18 to 24 fellows right now, and these are youth as well as young adults. So there is a bridge to adulthood with this that speaks to some of the needs as some many of our youth transition out of the system, they're still uh in need of support because of the high risk behaviors they're involved in. So we're seeing good indicators with it. Uh we're we have the fellowship, but we also have a broader community campaign to promote uh awareness as well as healing uh and going from hurt to healing that's gonna take place this year.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Yeah, I love that. Hurt to healing, I love that. Um I do have a question for both of you. So you both serve in leadership roles on the violence response public health and safety team, which is also VR Fast, um, which you talked about earlier, Reggie. Can you tell us uh how that team was developed and its role in addressing community violence? And I'll start with you, Reggie.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

I think what we saw with the historic increase in gun violence um in homicides and nonfatal shootings, you know, during 2020. Um, I think one of the things that really stood out to me, and and I'm sure to both of you being involved in the emergency response and the coordinated um response was the level of communication that was happening just in addressing COVID alone, um, and having healthcare leaders and you know emergency departments and city-county private sector foundations, everybody talking on a daily basis about what was happening, understanding transmission, um, getting PPE out, all of that stuff. And as we were on the front line and in the community and you know, hearing and you know, and seeing what was happening. Um and unfortunately, even with a lot of the CVI programs, we didn't experience a shutdown and was still responding and supporting families who were grieving. I don't know if you all recall the mass shooting that happened um on 10th and locust and um you know, just and that was early on in the pandemic. And that was just it was just heartbreaking. Um, number one, not knowing what COVID really was and the impact that it would have. But number two, understanding that members of our community were basically dealing with two epidemics at the same time. And working through that and coming, you know, on the other near the end of 2020. I want to say coming out of it, because I know it took a couple years in terms of getting COVID under control, but really saying, what if we had that same level of communication and coordination around gun violence? And so I think that call is what led, an idea is what led to VR Fast. Um, and that idea was also a reflection of Go Six and the Blueprint for Peace. Um, and so David, you know, Dr. Kostelak and others um in the community, um, you know, it was just a natural, like, yeah, let's let's pull this together. And so engaging, you know, many of our partners, um, you know, I think people were naturally, naturally understood coming out of COVID, who are part of that emergency response, what the value of that was and why it's important to have both focused and sustained um communication and coordination on an issue. And I'll pause there, but that I think that that was kind of the DNA of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah, and I think that's that's accurate. I feel like um Milwaukee County with the Unified Emergency Operations Center during COVID, we had built up a lot of convening power and muscle. Uh you had the Milwaukee Healthcare Partnership, so you had a lot of partners at the table. Uh, you had the community resilience imperative, and DHHS was at all of those tables in a coordinating uh function to help bring others together. Um for Dr. Costellac, for the medical college, for Reggie, um, VR Fast became a similar type of table. We said if if if we can throw some of the old rules out of the window and do things differently in COVID because of a pandemic or an emergency, why don't we treat gun violence the same way? Since it is such a prevalent issue. And it's not just the people who get shot who are the victims. All of us experience a collective uh trauma because of this. What is our systemic response? We are obligated to have one. And so that's how that table was formed. Uh a lot of good has come from it in terms of information sharing, but um the community definitely needs to be aware of just how many people are working on this issue, and we need to engage effectively there. And I think we're moving in the right direction because of it.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

And who are some of those partners? So you have the county, you have the city, you have MCW, MPS, MPS, oh, MPS.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

You have uh the DA's office, you have law enforcement there, and it's you know, the the the CVI partners are there listening, not necessarily sharing what they do because they come from a public health approach, but the law enforcement partners are there, and we're talking about the same uh incidents or the same uh situations that are affecting community in terms of everybody's working towards the goal of reducing gun violence. And you know, coordination. We've we've seen an uptick. We have to be honest about that and talk about those in Milwaukee. But the reality is no city sees the reductions overnight. It's sustained collaboration that brings it. And uh what we did see decreases in is youth gun violence. We saw youth suspects go down, we saw group-based violence or gang violence go down or retaliatory shootings go down. And where we saw um upticks, we have to be honest about it. As we talked about the pandemic and why it's such an important uh example for how systems can can do what needs to be done in an uh urgent crisis. Fear caused a lot of people to do pandemic buying, right? So some of us remember all the stuff we were buying in the stores and stocking up on, I mean, almost unreasonable amounts.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Well, there was a whole lot of buying of weapons too. And when you look at the caliber of weapons that have proliferated in our community, you see young people out here with switches, and you see uh modified uh, you know, pistols turned into machine guns. The uptick in some of the violence that we have seen is a result of so many weapons and so much uh high caliber weapons in the community and a lack of emotional regulation in the community. We have to really talk to the sense of insecurity and instability uh because of people in crisis. And I think that's where DHHS does play a significant role alongside other partners.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

There was a lot in there to unpack. Like, I have so many other questions that I would love to go to. I do want to ask you both. So if you were a funder, philanthropist, a service provider, a program, employer, a community member, how can you get involved? And we talk about this takes more than one entity, this takes more than one person. Like, if you truly want to have the impacts and to get to re reduction in gun violence, what does that look like and what do you need from people? What would be that call to action if you had one? That that's a question to both of you.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

I would say invest in the ecosystem. And uh what I would encourage people to do is invest in in the strategies that are evidence-based and the partners that are helping to lead those efforts. Um, oftentimes, uh, you know, philanthropy might be looking for one solution, but as we've mentioned and talked about it, and this is why the blueprint was an instruction document. We we did a whole crosswalk in DHHS of housing, of mental health, of food instability, of developing safe and healthy neighborhoods. We need all of that and the immediate intervention, and that costs money. And when philanthropy invests, they're able to invest in things that help us innovate. And those things that innovate help us do it better in the long term.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

So I would say starting at the individual level, I I think sometimes people think they need to start an organization or a program um to make a difference. And I would encourage people to like walk outside and think about the neighbor next door or the family across the street, um, or even the cousin in your family that you know, you know, is out here, is outside a lot, probably more than they need to be. Wrap your arms around them. That's right. Um, and and start there. And and it's amazing the impact that that can have. And so I just I want to encourage people to start there. I think as we go macro and a bigger level, um, when we there's a website called CVOecosystem.org.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

And you can put in any city you want, and it'll, based on the formula that's in there, based on population, violence rate, et cetera, it basically gives you a recommendation of what a community should be investing in this work. For Milwaukee, it's $34 million. I can guarantee you we are far from that investment collectively. And it's not saying that one entity, whether it's the county alone, the city alone, or philanthropy alone, it's saying collectively we should be investing no less than $34 million. And so my ask to philanthropy, the business community, and the public sector would be that we do everything possible to get to that investment. Because I think we're quick to look at Chicago, Baltimore, and other cities with admiration and say, wow, look at their reductions and how did they do that? And I think given our travels and given what we've looked at, right, you have had sustained, committed, and substantial investment and leadership on this issue. And that's what we need to do here if we want to achieve the same result.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

Reggie, I'm gonna ask this question because we were talking about this and we brought up this we said 10 million. We wanted to raise. 10 million for our CVI work. This is just for DHHS. And some people say, well, what would you do with that, right? So you talk about this $34 million investment. Tell people what does that look like, right? What are they funding? Because I think some people, we talk about community violence or intervention, some folks don't buy into that. They don't believe that we can have impact. Now, I'm I think that we can, right? But what would you say if you were to invest $34 million? We talk about sustainability, but what are you investing in?

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Right. A significant portion of that. And if you go to if you plug that into the website, it breaks down this is how many frontline. So for example, if you take advanced peace, it may be 20 um neighborhood change agents perform for life. It may be 50 more in terms of violence interrupters and outreach workers, hospital responders. So it basically encompasses both staffing, infrastructure, programming for CVI work. And I want to underscore what David mentioned, because what I think philanthropy and a lot of uh funders are accustomed to is sort of cherry-picking a program or one thing, or even something that is more primary prevention, which is important. But a daycare program is not going to get you achieve reductions in the short term in gun violence reduction. If we want to see short-term reductions in gun violence reduction, we have to invest in it evidence-informed programs and um prac and strategies to achieve that.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

And so again, we should be investing across an entire ecosystem because as you know, my background is in after school and youth development. So I'm all about that life. But at the same time, if we're talking about gun violence reduction, we also have to be surgical and strategic about what we're investing in.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

Absolutely. I just wanted you to did you want to add something? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, I I just would say the the cost of what we have currently is much higher and less effective. I mean, what we see in terms of of you know incarceration, there's there's there's room for accountability, there's room for people being uh removed from a community that are causing harm in a community, but the cost of that does not prevent the acts that lead to it. And I think that what we're describing is much more cost effective, better for the community, has uh better results. This is the workforce of Milwaukee, and this is the tax base of the future Milwaukee. And if we invest in community and invest in people, the return on that is a safer, healthier, thriving community.

SPEAKER_04 24:21

Absolutely. You know, we just talk about you know the number of youth that we were sending in Lincoln Hills and Copper Lakes and how much you invest there, right? $450,000 per youth to lock them up, right? And if you you always talk about like how much is it for fatality, right? Or non-fatality, and you have those numbers probably at the top of your head, right? If you think about the return on investment, if we were investing differently upstream, right, in the community, some of the things that you talked about, the programming and things like that, then that is a big return on investment, and you create a safer community, right? So I don't know if you all want to, you know, we talked about, you talked a little bit about, you know, um, what needs to be done to ensure our community CBI work is successful. We need that sustainability. We need that funding, but what else do we need to make it successful? Is there anything else besides the funding and the sustainability of it?

SPEAKER_00 25:03

I mean, we have a mental health crisis in our community, and we know we do, and we have a challenge in our educational system. All of the sectors that deal with what they call social determinants of health or quality of life, we have a responsibility to engage differently so that people are are not, you know, acting out violently or or turning inward in harmful ways. And I think that that's the responsibility there. I would also add that when we talk about this, there are systems in place that profit from this type of status quo. We at DHHS and other partners have uh challenged ourselves to build differently and to structure ourselves differently, and to do person-centered work that puts the community at the center, that creates no wrong door, where the staff themselves are the door to connecting people, uh, removing those barriers to not just access but getting acceptable services earlier on so that people don't act out in harmful ways in crisis. And I think that's a broader challenge. But then also we have to uh reach the community. There's a a lot of messages, and I'm gonna use the term drill, drilled into young people's heads. You have social media, you have an onslaught of self-destructive behavior. We have to do just as much in terms of making life louder than death and making um uh healing communities where um where community was not present prior.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Anything you want to add?

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Um one of the things that you know I've said for a long time is that a young person shouldn't have to get in trouble to get help.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Um and you shouldn't um have to be sick to, you know, have access to wellness or well-being. And so I think being proactive as possible and investing in communities and ensuring that people have what they need to thrive is what I think we need to do more of. And I just want to also jump back to what we were previously talking about in terms of the cost, and that every homicide in this city costs $2 million and every nonfatal shooting costs $644,000. So we're paying either way. And when you look at 140 homicides in this city this year alone, in terms of what we're paying for pain and death and despair, um, is a fraction of what we would need to pay in terms of that $34 million for prevention. And we should be willing to invest everything possible in the front end to prevent that harm, not just for in terms of the fiscal implications of that, but also the moral.

SPEAKER_04 27:25

I agree. Wow. Wow. What gives you hope for the future of where the this work is headed? What gives you hope? Now that's a question for both of you. Yeah. Both of you.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I I I would agree. I mean, this this leadership team here, the people in the community, the folks who I see doing this work, the stories, like we talking numbers and and and you know, big, lofty, you know, systemic problems, but I'm literally looking at people willing to do everything to get somebody help on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, get out of the bed, pick up the phone, um, and do it consistently because it's in their heart. They they should be paid to do this work. And that's the kind of people who we have, many who are working here, and we need more of that in the community. But you know, given some of the challenges we see, how do we see hope? Um, my hope is that uh many of the folks who have this kind of heart continue to build community so that no matter where we are in the work, we're still helping others.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

It's hard to add on to that. I mean, I definitely echo that sentiment. Um, I think also when I look at the leadership in this in this in our community, um, both politically but also in the community, that when you mentioned violence as a public health issue back in 2016, people look at you like a deer in headlights. Um, and so what gives me hope now is that people feel accountable, responsible, um, and understand that there's more that we can do. Even when you hear law enforcement leaders talking about there's more that we need to be doing as a community, that they can't do it alone, um, that they want to see more resources go to this type of work, um, I think is profound and revolutionary when we talk about um redefining public safety and what that means and taking a comprehensive approach. Those are the things that give me hope because I think this work moves or dies at the speed of leadership.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

And so leadership is critically important.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

Yeah. Hope. Hope that we all will continue to do this work together and move it forward. Hope that we do have a reduction in gun violence, hope that we don't give up, right? And we do invest earlier in the interventions and the uh education and the employment and the housing and the mental health and all of the things, right? That those are basic things that people need that we pour into them and hope that we don't let each other, that we stand side by side with each other to do this work. Hope that we don't let our egos get in the way of us moving forward to make sure that every single person in this community feels safe. Hope that people don't have to go through a loss, right? Because that's harm, right? And so I am so grateful for the leadership that both of you have done in this area. I mean, this is amazing work, and it is hard. I always talk about hard work, hard work, right? This is from your heart that you get up every single day and you are showing up. I mean, just showing up in the community. I've seen you, you know, when you were working at the city, you were always there, the every situation there was a gun, you were there. You I think that's important. It's important that people show up. But whether you know that family or not, hope that you came and you're like, you know what, we're gonna bring credible messengers and we're gonna do advanced peace, even when the barriers got in the way. So we talk about hope. I think you all are leading this blueprint for peace. You are modeling what this means. And so I just want to say thank you. Thank you for joining us to talk about the credible work that's happening with community violence intervention, all the work that you continue to do in this community. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you all.