Episode 5 – Part 1: Community-Based Access to Behavioral Health Care

Host: Shakita LaGrant-McClain

Guests: Ken Ginlack, CEO of Serenity Inns and Milwaukee County Mental Health Board Member; Jennifer Wittwer, Director of Community Access to Recovery Services (CARS); Brian McBride, Director of Wraparound Milwaukee-Children’s Community Mental Health Services

DHHS Executive Director Shakita LaGrant-McClain is joined by Ken Ginlack of Serenity Inns, Jennifer Wittwer of Community Access to Recovery Services (CARS), and Brian McBride of Wraparound Milwaukee for a conversation about how behavioral health services for children and adultsare evolving across Milwaukee County. Together, they discuss the redesign of the behavioral healthcare system from institutional to community-based care and how new access points, partnerships, and prevention efforts are making it easier for residents to get the mental health and substance use disorder support they need.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Welcome to this episode of DHHS Podcast: Conversations to Creating a Healthy Community. I have the pleasure today of being joined by some amazing guests. So first we have Ken Jinlak, who is an executive officer of Serenity Ends and Milwaukee County Mental Health Board Member. Welcome, Ken.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Thanks for being here today. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

We also have uh Jennifer Whitwamer, and she's our director of community access to recovery services commerce. Welcome, Jennifer. Thank you. Thank you for being here to be here. Thanks for being here. And lastly, we have Brian McBride, and he's our director of WrapAround Milwaukee Children's Community Mental Health Services. Welcome, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Thank you all for being here today. And so today we're going to discuss, you know, what services and supports are out there for our community when we talk about community-based mental health services and behavioral health services. So I'm looking forward to the conversation today so that our community knows that there are tons of services and resources out there, but just knowing where to get them, right? How to access them. So are y'all ready to get started? Let's do it. Let's do it. Right, all right. So this is a question for all of you. We've talked extensively over the past few years about the redesign of Milwaukee County's behavioral health system, right? You know, how have we redesigned that? How are things different from us being from institutionalized care to community-based care? And so, how has this moved from that level of care, right? Having a hospital to now all of our resources being within the community and being community-based, how has that benefited the residents here in Milwaukee County? And so I don't know if you want to start with that, Ken.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Absolutely. Um, so what I see in the community is that now they have more access to services.

unknown 1:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Um, it's in the community, it's in the neighborhood, and we know that people recover better when they're getting their treatment or the services in their neighborhood, in their community. And so it eliminated a lot of barriers when it came to transportation or comes to transportation. Um, maybe having a babysitter to have to go out further further and then come back into the community. And so um it's just been really um good to see um the mental health um emergency center, the access clinics, all of those things allow individuals in the community to get the treatment they need. Um, you know, without access is treatment denied.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

Yeah, absolutely. What about you, Brian?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

You know, adding on to what Ken said, I think one of the biggest impacts that we saw was that um being located in the community and not having to have uh families travel, like like Ken mentioned, too. Um it really became a we need to go to where the support and the help is needed, and we are really seeing the the effects of that. We've provided community-based care for for many years prior to the hospital closing and for uh the restructure, but this really emphasized and made a focus to um where our work is really needed and the partnerships that grow out of this collaboration. Um, we've seen our ability to grow those partnerships, to expand on them in areas with the hospital systems, with community providers, and really centralizing our efforts into community-based care in a way from an old mindset of saying, you know, we need to institutionalize um both youth and adults, and and you know, we have that level of care um throughout our community, but it has a place in it now. We're really leading the charge around uh looking at basic community care for uh youth and families that we serve.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Absolutely. Yeah, what about you, Dan? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

I think it's been interesting to be part of the process and to see the growth that's occurred and the way that we've been able to reinvest as a community. So going from really being very, I used to say we were hospital-centric, right? A lot of our resources, time, attention, and energy centered around that building on Watertown Plank Road. And there was great work that happened there. Absolutely. But now being able to reinvest and turn to the community. And even in recent years, um, with some of our opioid settlement dollars, we've been able to share our resources resources with community partners and have them get a reach in the community that we didn't have otherwise, reaching populations that have been underserved, neighborhoods where we didn't have specific resources, and as Ken mentioned, our access clinics, really looking at those zip codes, those populations, those neighborhoods that need us the most, and really making sure we're investing there. That's the heart of what we do. So seeing us now to be this truly community-based system where we're going out to the people, we're reaching the right folks who need us the most, that feels really good. It's fun to be part of that.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

You all are doing some amazing work. I mean, just the story we tell about that redesign, right? Having the hospital on Watertown Plank Road, and there were tons of reports and resources, you know, research and surveys and listening sessions that you all did with the community. And we found 90% of the people that were going to the hospital live right in the city of Milwaukee, right? And then, you know, 70% though is within this neighborhood, like 10 minutes from this neighborhood if you drive, right? Or you take a bus. And then so we built the mental health emergency center right in this neighborhood, right? And then we were gonna move and we're like, well, we need a place for the people at who were at the hospital. Where are they gonna go? And so then we have this Marsha Peacock's building here, and we have 120 homes here. We're like, the people that we serve are in this neighborhood, and where are the access clinics? So we have a number of them. So we have the access clinic north, and what are some of the locations of those access clinics?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

And it's funny, right? Prior to me going to Serenity, um, I was actually working for Milwaukee County and was very instrumental in opening those access clinics. Um, so you have access clinic east, south, and north. Um, and it was very intentional. And as you stated, when we were looking at the the surveys and the zip codes, um, we were very intentional about where we located um services.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

And we talk about being intentional. What does that look like? Being intentional to do something. What did you look at? What helped you make those decisions? Like we're gonna place it here. Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

What were some of those factors? Well we were looking at the zip codes and and we saw the high utilization from the individuals in those zip codes, right? And so we wanted to make sure that they have access and then partnering with the federal federally qualified health centers was was very instrumental as well. Right. Um, and so we covered the east side, the the south side, the northwest side. And so um I I just was happy to be a part of that, yeah, and to see those um start up and open, and then also being intentional about letting individuals know that the services are there.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Yeah, we appreciate the work that you did before you went and left us. But you left the impact, right? Did amazing work, right? And then still still end up being a partner. So you're still doing amazing work, right, around this um and being a partner with us. You know, another question I wanted to talk about, you know, we talk about our strategic plan, and we have four focus areas. And one of those focus areas is mental wellness. And so we talk to people in the community and we talk to staff and we talk to providers that have more than 300 providers. Um, so when we talk about mental wellness, there's a lot of people like, what do you mean, right? We have, you know, behavioral health uh services, and you know, we talk about mental health, we talk about behavior health. So, what does uh that mean to you? And can you give an example of a program or initiative that is moving us closer to mental wellness? And I'm I'm gonna ask that question. So you can think about that for a little bit, but just I want to give some input. Whoever wants to start. It looks like you already have something, Brian.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Oh, yeah, of course. I I mean when you talk about what mental wellness, you know, means to me, it really is about it, you know, individualizing somebody's care for what makes them happy, what makes them feel like they are accomplishing their goals. You are empowering somebody to not only reach out for the support they need, but to be able to reach the dreams that they may have and are are working for and meet need a little assistance along the way. It's really what what I love about what we're able to do here at DHHS is really about working with people, individualizing the care, and really about showing them a path that they can do their own, that they can be successful in their own lives, and that they just need a little support at a at a period of of time, and that we should then get out of their way. Um, and and that creates a a feeling that you have for for yourself, for your uh family, for your own value, I think uh your self-worth, if I want to say, and that is really what wellness altogether, holistic care. Um I as a as a specific example, I see a lot of the the work that we're doing to try to get ahead of um the the services and the programs, and we're not just thinking about this is what we have to offer to you, but how are we preventing you from coming into the system? And so so for us on on the children and you side, it really is about partnering with schools and really emphasizing those relationships and getting to kids uh in in doing outreach and not about coming with a a service, not about coming with a hey, this is what I have for you, but truly partnering and really looking at it from the sense of I'm hearing what you're saying and this is what I this is what I want to be able to do for you. Are you willing to go down that path? And it's not a prescribed treatment plan. Um so I look at the work that we do with our community partners around uh prevention, earlier intervention. We look at um the birth of three, the um CLTS, the children's disabilities, and our partnerships with that um really becomes a a wellness for all. We've we've talked over the years about dual enrolled youth, and I think the system is a testament now to say five years ago we had two kids that would be duly enrolled in some of our services. Today we have over 350. So that is a a mark of our system, but that we're doing things better, and we are more in tune and more adaptive to the community need. Um, and I think it starts with the closure of the hospital, the focus on being uh community-based, but then all the partnerships that have come along.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

What about Owens Place? I mean, I look at that, there's you've expanded that as well, right? From North Side, now we have South Side. What is what does that place offer? What does it offer to the youth and families in our community?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, so Owen's Place is a partnership uh with Milwaukee County and in DHHS along with St. Charles Youth and Family Services. And we have uh we're blessed to have opened our second location on Fifth and National now, uh just about a couple of years ago. Um, and our our original location is on uh 46th in Fond du Lac, uh, which we we really saw the need. And and we we don't like to say, okay, we got one on this side of town and another one on this side of town. Uh geographically, they meet the need of our community. And as we were saying earlier, we've spent a lot of time using where are kids coming from and where are youth showing up that needs support, and we want to go to them. So that was the really the the openness of of creating the second location. But Owen's place started out um almost 14, 15 years ago with an idea that we need to really meet transition age youth in the focus to what their unique needs are. And when we talk about a transition age youth, we really say anywhere between 16 and 24. Um, but we we serve on both ends of that as well. But what the focus is is how can we support you in getting to your next step in life? And by doing that, we offer um not only uh uh computer labs and uh relaxation and socialization events, but we offer peer support, we offer um case management, and really it's designed for you to come through that front door, get some support, and be able to leave and not feel like you're you're a part of a system or that you you're gonna have to show back up to get your your your next meet, your next need met. It is about helping you in that moment and really, you know, allowing you to go out and and try um some new new activities, get some new resources, and do the work on your own. And then come back to us when when you need to. Open to anyone in the community. And again, what we see is a lot of kids come in and they start with, Hey, I just need a snack, I need something to eat. Uh, they end up playing Xbox for a couple of hours, they go over to the Papa Shop machine and and they and they they shoot some hoops. Um, but then you really start to get to know them and you're like, okay, well, let's let's start looking at educational or employment opportunities. Let's get you connected with, you know, another community-based resource so that we can support you in a different way. It's become a hub to where youth and even their their families show up and utilize to meet basic needs. Um, and and we're really, really excited for what the future and and how we can expand what that um service support looks like in in each community. But um it's been a wonderful resource for us.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Mental wellness serving the entire person and body, right? Correct. What about you, Jan?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Any programs, things you can think of that really So we really have always thought about mental wellness. It's not just about mental health or there's a problem that needs to be solved. And we thought about this a lot during COVID, quite honestly, because we were all in that boat together. And we were all honestly suffering to some degree, some days more than others. And that's really where we started to think about well, what are the better ways to cope? Not the bad ways to cope, right? But that we all have that struggle, we all need support in different ways at different times. And as you were asking that question, you referenced this a little bit already, but I want to give a shout out to peer support. Yeah, peer support has become so important in our community and in our array of services. In fact, you know, a peer support is going to be an individual who's already walked that walk. Yeah, and it's been relevant in the substance use world for decades and decades, and it's gotten more of a foothold on the mental health side in more recent years. But we've really invested in DHHS in peer support and getting that embedded into so many of our services that we offer. To the point that we have a peer specialist academy now, so that we can get people trained all throughout the year and keep adding to that workforce because no one can help you or understand you in a way that a that someone who's walked that walk can. And so that's just one great example of the way that we really have invested in mental wellness on the car side and on the youth side as well.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

Yeah. Yeah. I love attending those, you know, when they have better ways to cope, they bring all the providers together and everyone's come because it's just like a day of like reset, right? And refocusing. And it lets you to be your true self, right? You can be creative in that space, you can meditate in that space, they have your little yoga, and people get to share the success stories of how do we work together truly to lift each other up and keep each other going, right? Again, serving the entire body. What about you, Ken? Any examples that you can think of?

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Oh, absolutely. And and when it comes to like mental wellness and mental health and mental health diagnosis. And so, from a clinical standpoint, because of my clinical background, it's something that I talk about a lot in the community saying, hey, you don't have to have a mental health diagnosis to not be that, you know, you're not mentally well. Right. And I explain it in a very simple way to say what keeps you up at night, right? And when you're laying in the bed and looking at the ceiling, like, what are you thinking about? What's bothering you?

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

And then look tie that into the mental wellness, like, okay, if I can't sleep at night and something is continuing to bother me or on my mind, then maybe I could talk to someone. Maybe I should talk to someone. Because we know in the community, when you say the word mental, um, it becomes a taboo, right? It's like, oh, there's nothing mentally wrong with me, you know. And it's like, hey, I'm just checking to see if you will. Right. And so a lot of men, you know, they gravitate towards me when I have that conversation because I talk about mental wellness. I'm like, man, it could be the pressures of like, I don't know how I'm gonna pay my bills tomorrow. Right. Right? I don't know where I'm gonna sleep next week. Or, you know, it could be grief, it could be many things that just keeps them up at night and they're not mentally well because it's constantly on their mind. Um, when we reference better ways to cope, and so we were able to open a drop-in clinic that address that, right? Is we say, hey, we have this space, you can walk in, you could talk about whatever you want.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Okay, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:30

You don't have to have a mental health diagnosis, you don't have to have an appointment, you could just walk in, you could talk to a peer support specialist, um, you can come in and get some prevention items, you can get some Narcan. So, you know, creating that space for the community to say, hey, we here.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

And if you just want to have a conversation, we can have a conversation. But the the ultimate goal is to make sure that you're mentally well when you leave that space. Can we offer some release? Relief. Right. And um I I tell men that I work with um not so much as a provider anymore, but hey, just come talk to me. Let me hold that pain for you for about an hour. Yeah. And if you want to pick it back up when you leave, you're free to do that. But just come talk to me and let's see how we can make sure that you're mentally well when you walk out the door.

SPEAKER_04 18:19

I think just normalizing the conversation, like we all, when we talk about mental wellness, that's all of us, right? Absolutely. We all are dealing with something. Like, how do we have the tools and get the tools and resources we need? So when we're going through something, we know how to deal with that, right? It's okay to talk to, I know people in my family like, I'm not going to talk to anyone. I'm like, but it's okay. I talk to someone, like, you talk to someone? Yes, absolutely, right? So when I do go through whatever I'm going through, I have those tools and resources to do. And that could just be as simple as talking to someone who has, you know, went through something you're going through. It can be so simple as just meditating or taking a walk around the block or reading or just staring out. Sometimes in my office, I'm just staring out the window, right? And like, so what does that look like when we talk about mental wellness and removing that stigma? Like, we're that's for all of us, each and every human being, our mental wellness, just like our physical, we want to make sure we're taking care of our bodies, right? You have to take care of your minds as well. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

You know, and I would add to that is is what when you were make making those comments. I was like, if we could just get people to over that hurdle of of their own kind of blockage and start going in and talking to someone when they're in a good space, when when they don't feel like you know the world is closing in on them and they because that becomes then a double barrier for them to get to, is that you know, now I have this these day-to-day issues, but now I have to think of the first time coming to talk to someone is a hurdle as well. If we can normalize that and do it when we're even in a good space just to be able to get to a better place of wellness.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yeah, stigma is real. Yeah, that is a real barrier. And and we've worked so hard to break down the barriers to get located in the neighborhoods where we're needed. And uh in our department, we talk about this concept of radical hospitality. How far can we go to welcome people into our services? I love that, which is great, but it's still an act of courage for somebody to make that phone call or to walk through that door, and we recognize that, right? So it's not their job to know what they need when they walk in their door. That's our job.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

It's our job, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, it's just their job to show up. And for all of us who work in this field or as part of our families, to make ourselves vulnerable and to talk about the own the times that we've had struggles and the ways that we reached out to help, that does help break down those barriers of stigma. And that that's on all of us to do that, to help our community be healthy because it is hard to ask for help and to seek it out. It's hard to admit that you need it. We know that, right? So anything we can do to be warm and welcoming, we're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I totally agree. It's nothing like walking in the door, right, and and you're you're hesitant, right? Because you don't know what's on the other side of the street. It's scary. It is scary. Can somebody welcome you and say, hey, I'm glad you came. I'm glad you showed up. I'm glad you're here today. Like that's amazing feeling, right? And so um maybe places I walked in because I was disheveled or I smelled or um my appearance was not um perceived as what it what it should be. Um and they turned the, they close the door open. Or they say you're not welcome here, or what do you want, you know? But having in that welcoming space to just say, Hey, I'm glad you showed up. How can I help you today? What are we doing today? You know, and then normalizing it when we're talking about relationships and having relationships with the community.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

That radical hospitality I love. And also when we talk about no wrong door, we we don't talk about the actual door. Uh I tell every time new employees. Coming, I said, is each and every one of you deciding to be the right door. Is you deciding to say, How do we get to yes? Right? How do we even help you to be open to even getting if there are services or resources that like how do we be that door? Right. And that's what that means. It doesn't mean people are like, no wrong door. What does that mean? It's like we every day get to be intentional to say yes, to just be like, yes, I'm here, I'm here. Just to say, I'm here. I'm here to listen. I'm here, right? If you just need to just sit, if you just need to look out this window, I'm here, right? And that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

So yeah, and you're oh go ahead. I would I was just gonna add, I mean, it really is about the person sitting across the table from you and how they show up to support your need. If if if I'm having a bad day and I show up and there's a youth coming across the table or or a young adult, and and I don't put my best foot forward, I don't know what the repercussions of my interaction with somebody are going to have on on that individual. And it not only is it my job, it I believe it's it's a calling, it's it's a way to do this work. And I think that's what separates social services from a lot of different things is um in a lot of different professions. We understand that we are a part of of a journey and and we embrace that and we open that door to be able to help that.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

So we we listen, we could talk about this. You know, we talk about mental wellness. I can see all the passion all of you have there. I do have a question for you, Jen. So a cornerstone of access for community access to recovery services, you know, are the access points, and we also have access clinics. What is the difference and when should someone come to an access point versus an access clinic?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Yeah, people get that confused a lot, understandably so. They both start with the word access, which of course is central to everything that we are, but that can be confusing for the community. So our access clinic, which is what we were talking about earlier, we have the three locations throughout our community. That's really gonna be when people are at a point in time they need a prescription, they need to see a doctor, okay, and they need medication and they know that's what they need. Okay. That's like now there are other services in those clinics, but that's really that's where they're gonna show up or make that phone call and get to one of our clinics. Our access points for cars are really gonna be when people are in need of longer-term services.

SPEAKER_04 24:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

So we also have community-based locations for those. We have WCS, Sorona, and Westcare in our community. CARS is also an access point. So here at the Cogs Building, we always have people available to help. And those are gonna be when people need a case manager or someone who can help them navigate things more long term. Um, maybe it's not about medication, but it's about all the other things that can be a path to recovery. Um, that's when people are gonna reach out to one of the access points.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

That's really helpful. And I'm sure people are like, oh, okay, now I understand. Yeah, so yeah, access at the beginning of those, it's like, where do I go and when do I go to them? So thank you so much for sharing that. Um, Ken. So before were you a Mil Milwaukee County employee, then you moved to Serenity Ends doing some amazing work there. I want you just to tell us um a little bit about Serenity Ends and what role does supportive housing and long-term recovery programs play in improving mental health outcomes across our community.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Oh, absolutely. And and I want to just piggyback off of what Jen said, because Serenity Ends Drop-in clinic, we actually just made ourselves an access point, right? We just go be there, call it. You know, and it's like, okay, we are access point, you know, um, and as well as um looking to be um an access clinic, right? Because now we're looking to put a prescriber in.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

And so when someone is out of their medication or need a um um mental health meds, they can come there as well. So that's our newest thing that we're doing there. Um, however, Serenity Inn started about 20 years ago. Um, we recently built a new residential treatment facility right in the community on 28th and Brown. And so that's pretty much a starting point right there. Um, I always tell people to look at it like that's the hospital setting, like that's intense services. Umce they complete that, the average stay is about 60, maybe 90 days based on the need. And then they get an opportunity to move to our transitional living house, um, which they can stay four to six months. Um, after they move out of our transitional living house, they get an opportunity to move to our apartment building, and they can stay into the apartment building for up to 12 months.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

And so we have a whole ecosystem of continuum of care, which is long term. So the men that come to the program, they can actually get services wrapped around them for up to 18 months.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

Services wrapped around them. I love that type of.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

And that is like the ultimate, you know. Um, unfortunately, we can't have every man that go through the program because we just don't have enough space and it's starting to bottleneck a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Um, however, you know, when they get that opportunity and you watch someone coming in residential, and then 18 months later, you know, they're still in the program, they're independent living. Um, and again, I my goal was intentional to create an ecosystem. Anyone can start at any one of those starting points. Right. Even though, you know, residential is usually where they'll start. But I'll tell you, we had some men, about two or three men that come into the drop-in clinic, and then we end up seeing their need. Um, they needed a higher level of care, and we was able to get them in our residential. Okay. And then they went to the transitional living and went to the apartment building. And you're talking about guys that's homeless, that's coming off the um, you know, living on the streets. And so um, I'm really, really proud of that. Right? And we do take the holistic approach. Um, even when independent living, we continue to wrap services. Um, someone goes there, give a group um once a week, and so we never stop um providing services for that individual. Um, we were able to add some other things, um, like work programs, we have computers, um, we do a financial literacy program where we have a bank that comes in, and um if they take the literacy class, the financial literacy, um, they wipe them out the bad check system, which allows them to open a bank account. That's amazing. And so we we just like, you know, we want to take care of the whole person. We want to make sure that we give them the best opportunity to succeed, and that's the long-term care.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

You know, um, it's some places they may go to, they may have based on insurance or whatever, it may be 15 days that they're there, it may be 30 days, okay, and you're done. Um, but we've what we found out is that when they leave after 30 days and have nowhere to go. So it's all about planning and making sure that they have like bridge housing and and places to go to continue their recovery process. That's where we see the most success.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

Yeah, and I love when you talk about the rapper, and I brought that bring that up because we always talk about placing the person, whoever it is, at the center and then wrapping services around. And that's individualized care, right? Because not every person is gonna have the same plan, right? It's not gonna look like you talked about. They may have come in in different points, and we have to determine what's best for them. So really figuring out what is the underlying need, right? And how do we get them to their ideal self, the place they want to be? And so I love the work that you are doing, and you're doing some amazing things in the community. So thank you. Thank you so much for for all that.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

You know, I I really, you know, I always say when people say thank you, or I'm blessed to be a blessing, right? Because dude's uh some of the services I utilized, you know, um prior to being here, right? And so um Milwaukee County paid for my treatment years ago. Wow, you know, and then I went to transitional living and they paid for my stay there. So, you know, it's just like wow, how do I give back? How do I continue to help others, right? Because one of my prayers is like, let me be a light for other men to come through, right? I want to be that beacon of light in the community. Yeah, and so you're shining bright, Ken. Yeah, well, thank you. Shining bright. I I love it. And it don't feel like work to me. It's like this is my call.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

It's your call and your purpose. I love that. This concludes part one of our behavior health services conversations to creating a healthy community. We hope you tune in to part two.