IM Director Clint Morgan (Part 2)

Host Tim DeCresie continues a conversation with IM Director Clint Morgan.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello, and welcome to the Unity Community Podcast. This is a place where our church family can hear real stories of life change and discover how God is working through our ministries and missionaries, both here and around the world, from conversations with our staff and leaders to testimonies from our people with pulling back the curtain of what God is doing in and through Unity Community. Thanks for listening. Let's grow closer to the Lord as we grow closer one to another.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

All right, welcome back to Unity Community Podcast. I'm your host, Tim DeCreasy. I'm so excited to have Clint Morgan back with us. If you did not hear the last episode with him, he told a phenomenal story about his journey through missions and life on the field. So if you've not heard that, you can go back and listen. But for this episode, we're going to focus more on the denominational's vision for missions and what he sees as director of foreign missions for Free Will Baptist, what he sees the direction of missions going moving forward. So welcome back, Clint. We're so glad you decided to come back for another episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Glad to be here again. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Before we get into the vision of missions, from your perspective, how do you view uh missionaries and missions just within our denomination right now? What is the current state of the state for missions?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

And I've said this to our board, and I will say it wherever I get it, get an opportunity. This is a great time to be uh with uh Free Will Baptist International Missions, and it really is, and it's not because of me, and I mean that with all sincerity. God has put us in a very specific time where I think our our people are more unified, and I'm talking about as a denomination. Um, you know, a lot of things have happened and along the way, but more unified. There's, I think there's trust uh in uh missions and in IM in particular, and as we're talking about that, I would talk about the other departments also in the same same light. There is a trust factor that is good at this point, and there's a unity that I think is very, very important in helping us. So I think it's just a great time to be here. Um I again, I believe our young people as a whole, and I mean I'm Free Will Baptist, uh, it's pretty remarkable. Research is showing, um, like with our with young people, Free Will Baptists, those who do e-team, CMP go to Welch and other things or I forgot what it is, but it's like crazy. 95% likely the more likely to stay in church and stay engaged. And I mean, that is that is a big, big thing. And then when you see our e-team and CMP and about 85 some plus percent of our present missionary uh body, you know, uh missionary core force, uh, have done e-team or c and p. So we feel like we have, if we can just sort of lay it, layer, layer it a little bit, foundationally, as three of Baptists, there's a unity. That is their strong foundation is built on. You have, I think we have a very clear vision and a clear focus that people understand. I think our mission statement, we labor with the body of Christ to fulfill the Great Commission. We say that over and over and over again. We send out missionaries, what do they do? We have what we call our six tasks. Every missionary is focused on those six tasks. Number one, minister to people's needs. And it is through ministering, we build a foundation on which to share the gospel. Uh good African proverb that I like to use is on this is, you know, uh a bee doesn't start its hive with honey. And if you look at the hive as ministering to people's needs, it's a very biblical concept, also. Ministering to people's needs, Old Testament, New Testament, you find it. It was taught in the Old Testament and the laws, it's taught in the New Testament by Christ. You are ministering to people's needs, building that strong relationship. And this is not new, and you know, it's not like wow, this is the most best, you know, newest discovery ever in missions. This is simply biblical thought here. So you build that nest and then you pour the honey of the gospel in it. And I said, I do believe, I do believe that in the past that one of the things we have done is we pour the honey in the hand, and most of it drips to the ground or is lost. In other words, we are so, and I believe in sharing the gospel that don't want to ever be misunderstood. But I think what we have been so uh given to, and and I'm gonna use a strong word here, obsessed with presentation or witnessing that we have forgotten the ministering part. And so you're you're really just telling someone something they don't know why you're telling it, they don't even know what you're talking about. They have no context in which to put it. But if you minister to their needs, whatever they might be, they sense that you care for them, you're demonstrating God's love, then it opens the door for you to share the gospel with them. Once you share the gospel with them, you hope and believe, not all of them, but you want them to come to know Christ. Once they know come to know Christ, you want to disciple them. And this is if you could just stop and draw a map or uh just a chart for missions, you would say, minister to people's needs, witness disciple, you know, it would be big banner because that is what Christ didn't say go plant churches, he said, go make disciples. And but everything is leading to discipling, and everything that follows is bleeding out of it is downstream from discipleship. And if we can sort of picture that in our minds, so we minister to build a relationship, we witness to them based on that relationship that we have, because you know, the scriptures tell us that we should live in such a way that people ask about the the faith that's in us, and then you're you're able to share the gospel with them. Then you disciple, and I I heard one writer said uh Jesus discipled at three miles an hour. Jesus walked with his disciples. And I feel like that that's uh it's a beautiful picture of what discipling is. And I try to, and I really believe this that uh and I shared this a little bit in the first broadcast about how I believe that if we're walking together, we're learning from each other. There may be a teacher position or a pastor position, but the discipling process is walking together. I'm I I think I could say safely, Christ learned from his disciples. I know they learned from him, but you know, there are and again, we there's a lot of theology there. We'll leave it to the side right now, okay? But I believe that there was that personal human relationship that he had with them as friends, and you know, so then that discipling process. And then as out of those disciples, leaders will emerge, and you train those leaders, and then they become the block, if you want to say, the building blocks for the churches that that will be planted. And if you know, if you don't have good leadership, you know what's going to happen. And this is a little mantra that I try to teach in practice. It's better to not have leaders than have those who are not biblically qualified. You will get yourself in danger. And I would say this one more thought about leaders. Don't pick them. Don't we should not choose leaders. Let God choose them. They will come to the top, and then they will emerge within a group, you know. And I'm gonna go off on a tangent here if you don't mind a little bit, because I think it's important sometimes in cultures. And I ask this question to mission students do you see yourself as a change agent? And most of them will say yes. And I will ask you, you know, I want to, you know, try to reframe this. Probably in most cases, you are not a change agent. You are an agent of change. The change agent is the person within that culture and within that context who people look to. It may be you, but most of the time it's not, but they'll look to someone in that culture who understands and speaks their language, and they are the ones that's going to verify the truth for them and say, Yeah, you can believe this. Yes, you can follow this. And those people are the ones who I believe God will choose and lead. And I mean, it's people that have confidence in. And then once you have you minister to their needs, you witness to them, you disciple them, you train your leaders, then a church will emerge. But we in the past, we've almost reversed that order sometimes. We build a building, try to get people in there. There's six tasks, as we said, for every missionary, and we want them to be aware of them. We teach them, we pound it in. We start an e-team now, giving them these six tasks, you know, minister, witness, disciple, train leaders, plant churches, and partner with the body of Christ, labor with the body of Christ. In other words, you just keep building that cycle and expanding the kingdom by laboring with the body of Christ. And I do believe that that's the heartbeat of I Am right now. And I love it because, and I think then I'm gonna stick my neck out a little bit here, but you could ask anyone in this office uh what our mission statement is, they can tell you. And I'm talking about, and I'll give, I don't want to name the person, but someone who works in the accounting, you know, you or some of the other places that we have, say, what are you doing to help labor with the body of Christ to fulfill the Great Commission? And they can tell you by doing this. I am getting this to the missionaries, I'm helping tell the missionary story, I'm recruiting missionaries, we're, you know, forming teams, you know, and I love it. Uh and and I just the fact that I know that there is, it's just not a mission statement. You know, it's just not okay, we put it on the wall and people know it and they believe it and they are focused on it and they live for that. So you have that. If you have the trust back here, then what you're doing, then people will believe in what you're doing, you know. And you know this, uh, Tim, that as a denomination, as a people, and even as Westerners, we have a very individualistic mindset, you know, and it makes it complicated. I'm not gonna lie, sometimes it makes it complicated, uh, you know, and what we're trying to achieve. But I believe if people have a cause, a common cause, they're all polling in that direction. They're not all walking at the same pace and they're not all doing it the same way, but they are all truly walking in the same direction. And that is my passion for you know, for us as Free Will Baptists. If we get people free will Baptists locked in on obeying the Great Commission, finding their role in that, then you know, you're not a missionary, you're headed in the same direction. You know, you're pastor, we're headed in the same direction. You know, I'm youth pastor, we're headed in the same direction. I'm a music person, we're headed in the same direction. You know, and I feel like that's what has is drawing us together that we believe, I do believe frugal Baptists believe in missions. I do believe that they uh, you know, for you can say verbally anyway, the Great Commission, but I think there are many who are passionate about the Great Commission. And it's it's shown in the fact that, you know, the the support for our missionaries. I mean, we're sending out missionaries, and you know, our one of our goals, I'll talk about this later, is you know, have a hundred new commissioned missionaries. That's going to be a lot of support. I mean, you're you're you're a lot of support's got to come. And you know, they're the doomsayers say, Well, I've free will baptists. I don't think we got that much money. We have the money. We got the money. That's it, that's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

And I love how you said um, you know, our job is to minister. Um, and you know, obviously we're the hands and feet of Christ, and you know, it's through doing that that they see the light. And so I'm so glad that you value that part of it, and it's not just here's the witness, take it or leave it, you know, that we want to minister to their needs.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I I like what uh and I uh this statement, and I try to share this with people. Sometimes we make a mistake if we think I know we've made a mistake if we think by offering a cup of water that we fulfill the Great Commission. But I think also we can say we probably have not fulfilled our task if we give the water of life. And I think those two together, and I know people would disagree with me, but I think giving a cup of water and giving the water of life are in uh theologically intertwined. I think it's very important that we minister to people in order to give them the water of life. I mean, you you look at the simple what Christ did. I mean, he just engaged that woman, uh, well, the Samaritan woman, engaged her, talking about something very mundane, water. Boom. She gave him water, you know. And there is a key element right there that will, I it it almost shocked me the first time I really came to the reality. Sometimes you have to, I hope we really locked in on this one. Sometimes we have to allow ourselves to be ministered to by an unbeliever in order to minister to them by giving them the water of life. I mean, you think about that that John 4. Christ asked her, a Samaritan, for a drink of water. She gave it to him. So she ministered to his need. If you know, if we can see that's what's happening, she is meeting the need. And then he said, if you knew you, you know, who give you're giving water to, he's got the water of life. And I think, boy, what a beautiful picture of ministry, witnessing, you know, that shift that just it doesn't have sometimes it take may take months or years. Sometimes it takes just that instant, letting someone I could tell a long story about that, you know, learning that even in practical life. But anyway, that's that's what drives us is that that mission statement, those six tasks, seeing that people are uh you know given that. And I think our our denomination has confidence that the people that we're sending out are committed to those things, and they, you know, uh they are fulfilling this. And I I think that's that's what makes things good right now. It's a good time to be, good, good time to be free will baptist. And that was a time when I'll be honest, when I first came on, young people didn't even want to come with I am. And I'm not saying anything bad about anyone, there's just a time, you know, transition. They didn't want to come with us. And now I feel like that young people do, even if they don't, it's not a bad thing to consider coming with us. You know, back it was a time that no, I'm not even interested in that. But I and I it we have an absolutely amazing team working here. I'm just telling you, uh, our field teams here in the office and uh our board, you just feel like that we're walking in step, and you know that that sense of unity is a powerful tool. You know that.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Yeah, and like the saying goes, nobody cares what you know until they know you care. And that's what you're good statement.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Good statement.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yep. Um, well, so you've you said we're in a really good place when it comes to missions. So where do you see us going from there?

SPEAKER_00 16:03

I think that um, you know, and imagine it to me, if you look at our horizon goals, and I really feel like that's you probably heard us talk a little bit about them, as what we have tried to do in the past is set five-year goals. When I came on, you know, 10 to 15, and then 15 to 20, the first ones were very we struggled, then from 2015 to 2020, we had goals, and then 2020, 25, and those goals usually are talking about the number of churches we want to see planted, opening up new areas, et cetera, et cetera. But now we're usually doing five years. Now we're doing we have tenure goals. We call them the horizon goals. And to me, they are really faith-based. God has to act for us to get there. And it's almost doubling what's happening, you know, in any given 10-year period of time. It's doubling that right now. Well, what we're praying, and we I can say, and I'm just uh we prayed about this, we discussed this, our leadership team. I wish people could just walk with us through this process and how long it's taken us as we have prayed, and we just said, okay, and and and fine-tuned it, you know. And it's not about having a fancy strategy. Is is this where God wants us to go? We can we agree on these things. This is where God wants us to go. And, you know, I'll give them to you quickly. Number one, we want to see a hundred new missionaries commissioned over the next 10 years. That's doubling anything we've done in any 10-year period. So go from, you know, there's going to be attrition, so it doesn't mean we're going to have 200 missionaries, but we're going to have a stronger, much larger missionary force. And, you know, you have attrition, you have retirement, you have sickness, you have those things that take place. But if we can commission 100 new missionaries over the next 10 years, and we have e-team and CMP in the many ways that we're recruiting. We we jokingly say e-team is like our single A, you know, like baseball. That's single A, CM uh, the CMP is our double A, and then the overseas apprentices is triple A. You know, and I know that's playing with words a little bit, but the idea is we have a very, very strong uh recruiting team. You know, we are really wanting those hundred new missionaries to come. Uh Leslie, who is our director of mobilization, that's her. She's leading. She's going to be the one leading that. Then the second aspect of our horizon goals is has three little elements in it. And that is we were going to meet three financial goals. Number one is to have a $1 million world mission offering every year, at least $1 million, right? Last year, our last one was $865,000. So we're headed in the right direction. But, you know, we want to have a really strong world mission offering because through our world mission offering, we help finance our partners, send new missionaries to the field, and support our general fund. The second big financial goal is we want $3 million in what we call the growth fund. And out of that growth fund, what we want to do is have be able to give every one of those, when those hundred new missionaries come in, when they come across and they say, okay, they are commissioned by the IAM board. We want to be able to give them anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 to start their fundraising. That will accelerate their getting to the field probably by three to six months. And that would be phenomenal. If we can, because once they start off the way it's been, the way it's been in the past, is you start off at zero, you know, and then you have to have at least three months of expenses in your account before you can go on salary. And then, you know, you can see all that. So if we can have three million dollars in a growth fund and then take the even at 5%, $150,000 a year. And as we are coming along with these new missionaries, and you can give them $10,000, $15,000, that would be phenomenal. So that's the the second part of the financial. And the third one is to have $10 million in what we call um the fountain cornerstone, excuse me, found the cornerstone endowment. And that's to help us with the general fund. So we have the 100 new missionaries, the three financial goals. And then the third one, we want to see the number of uh average number of uh Frio Baptist believers outside of the United States double from about 60,000 to 120,000. We and by the way, we're already well on our way. God is blessed. We just got you're hearing something no one absolutely no one's heard outside of this office until today. And but we're going to be telling it. But we just got finished collecting our statistics from 2025. Last in 2024, our average attendance was outside of U.S. every Sunday was 52,096. Okay, 52,000. In 2025, 67,000.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Wow, praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah. And you know, again, it's not about numbers, but man, I love it because you know you say, okay, Lord, this is yours. Take it and move it. And where it comes and how it's coming to us is absolutely amazing. So we want to see that. But the way we want to work to that is we have a goal of sharing the gospel with one million people. Now, when we say share the gospel, I love giving out tracts. Give out tracts, fine. Inviting people to church is fine. But when we say share the gospel, we are saying you are presented a clear witness of the gospel and you're offering a person an opportunity to, you know, accept Christ. We've defined that and we've sent that out to all of our fields and our partners, and we say, join us in this effort. But a million people that's a lot. And we believe if a million people Hear the gospel, not all of them are going to accept, but they could. But we believe we're going to see uh plant a thousand new churches. And that's double the number of churches we have right now, double the number of believers that we have right now, you know, and it's going to come through that sharing the gospel, being faithful. And we know if we are faithful in those tasks, then, you know, but it's an exciting time for us. I mean, you know, you think about a hundred new missionaries coming along. You think about the financial help that we'll be able to give to our missionaries and our partners, and then you think about uh seeing the church outside of the U.S. actually will be larger than the than Free Will Baptist Church in the U.S. And it's not about again, you know, again, please, please hear my heart. It is not about numbers, it's about God working and just seeing this is what we're supposed to be doing. We're building his kingdom, not our kingdom. You know what I'm saying? So Free Will Baptists have reached out into the world, and now, you know, they are larger. I mean, Christian Missionary Alliance, Nazarene, there are a lot of denominations that because of their focus on missions, they're larger outside of the U.S. than they are. I'd say, praise the Lord. It's not about competition, it's about expanding his kingdom. You look at another part of it all, and you know, we have missionaries. We used to have missionaries in 12 countries. Now we have missionaries in six. But is that a good thing or a bad thing? That's a great thing. And that's what you're talking about vision. This is one thing I love of what about what's happening too. So, you know, uh you go back 15 years now and you say, okay, this is what's happening. We're diminishing the number of missionaries, but we have strong national churches that are taking lead. So we build partnerships. We have partnerships with Panama, Cuba, Ecuador, uh, I'm Brazil, Uruguay, India, you know, uh, Ivory Coast, Kenya. These are places where we had missionaries, we no longer have missionaries, but we are partnering with the national churches. And so we have those partnerships. Then one of the things that if we are going to stay true to our mission statement, we labor with the body of Christ, then that means we're going to partner with other people. And I can tell you, we do not do this. This is not willy-nilly. If we wanted partners, we could have 200. You know, it is not about just having partners. But what we, and I I don't know, I think it's okay to say this, but there was a time when that if you were not with I Am, you were almost adversarial. You know, we looked at competition, you know. We don't, we're not going to do that anymore. That's not, that's not body, that's not what Christ wants on his body. He wants us to work together. And so we, every partnership that we have has a free will Baptist connection. They're free will Baptists either leading other agencies. You know, I can name them, you know, that Free Will Baptist are heading, but they have partnered with I Am and together, we're laboring with the body of Christ to fulfill the Great Commission. With our missionaries, we have six, like I said, six fields where we have I am missionaries, but all together with our partners, there are 39 countries that I am that free will baptists are having an influence in because we're partnering together. And I just praise the Lord. I mean, uh to me, have that mission statement, believe in that mission statement, believe in those tasks, believe in these things, and focus and and act like you act like you believe what you say you believe. And I think it just makes an enormous amount of difference. So I'll go back to my statement. I think it's a good time to be, and I think we're seeing that with our young people at our colleges, you know, are coming to us. And, you know, uh, we we want people to come to us and ask us about missions. And if we've had this happen, some young Free O Baptists come and say, I want to go out with missions, but I want to go with another agency. We say, fantastic. How can we help you? What can we do for you? We've had one that came to us and you know, one had some ministry that we, and it was good, don't get me wrong, it was a good ministry, but we just didn't, we didn't have any. We asked on our fields, would you want someone with this focus that was ethnomusicology? Okay. And some people don't know what that is, but you know, so we ask our fields and no one so but we helped them find another mission because you know, we have access and we have resources, and so we said, hey, let us help you find a mission that will place you in in your, you know, where God wants you in ethnomusicology. We love doing that too. That's just part of, and they don't have to, and you know, the people who are working with our partners, they can choose to be an IN missionary and be sent out with a partner agency, or they can choose not to, but we still have a partnership. I love it, Tim. I love where where things are right now. I just think it's a good, like I said, it's a good time, and God is blessing.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

So that's exciting. So you said six countries. While you were talking, I was thinking, do I know all six countries? Of course, I started with Japan, and then I went, okay, Spain, um, um France, um, Bulgaria. And then I kind of like, I'm not sure I know the reta the other two.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Ecuador.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Ecuador, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

And the US. And the US, okay. Yeah, we have uh two missionary couples, three missionary couples right now working in the U.S. Portels, Craig and I mean uh Darren and Dana Portell, uh, Tyler and Kelly Penn, and Mercers, uh working in uh at uh in Missouri. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

See, and I would not have ever probably guessed United States. Um, but I remember when we were going down to Mexico with e-team, you know, they said, oh, well, we wanna, you know, we want to grow our um disciples in Mexico so we can send them to America to be missionaries. You know, we kind of joked about it, but yeah, no, it's a mission field.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

But we did, and I uh, you know, I'd like for people to know this, we did talk to Brother David Crow about it. We didn't just, you know, I have talked to, since I have been director, I have talked to every director about allowing us to have uh missionaries in international mission ministries, with mainly with students, you know, here in the States. And they've all said no in their own way, except Brother David Crow. And I honor him for doing that. And you know, we said we're not trying to, but this is an area that NAM is not focused on. You know, so we said, can we cross-culturally, these this is sort of our domain, and we're hoping to win people, disciple them, send them back to their you know, homeland and take the gospel with them. And I can tell you it's already working, you know. Uh, and I think it's going to get a lot, lot better.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

So what was the um why was the decision to go from 12 to 6? Was that just to better focus in on the people you were supporting?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Or what missionaries missionaries just began to leave the field. The only field that we had that transitioned uh on a very, very strategic nature was Panama. And it was 2012, and they were having their annual conference, and the leadership of the Panamanian Church said to the missionaries, hey, uh, you know, we love you, appreciate everything you've done, but you can go now and go to other nations that need the gospel more than, you know, we can do this. And I said, you know, if you do not, if you didn't have the right vision, you'd be insulted at that point. Because you say, these people are chasing us out. But the missionaries that were there, and I'm talking about Steve Lytle and Stan Bunch and you know, and so and those guys, they were there at that point and they praised the Lord. They said, wow, because why? They had that's what they took to train for. That's what you want to hear. That the national church is ready to take the responsibility. And you know, uh, and it was interesting because once they transitioned, they gave, you know, uh gave. I want to say that the I'd rather say the Panamanian church uh took in a good way, not an overthrow, but said, we are ready. Please be, you know, please give me this responsibility. We're ready. And they believed them because they had trained them. If you train them and you don't believe they can, you should you're probably in the wrong business. But I say if you train them, you need to trust them also, and saying, Hey, these guys are ready, they're ready. And then, you know, once the Panamanian church got the you know, uh full reins, if you want to say that, those I think they went through some learning curves. And that's natural. And you know, but our missionaries had been there, they'd go down and teach, they'd encourage them, you know, in any way they could. And you know, you can see the church now coming more and more and more every year. And now, I mean, they've uh they've sent missionaries out. So Panamanian church is sending missionary people out, and that's that's what you want to see.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

So yeah, well, that goes back to that proverb of you know, teach a man to fish, he'll eat a day, teach him to fish, he'll eat for the rest of his life, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, I mean, it's just it was a great moment, and you know, that's what you want to see. But some of them have been like Ivory Coast, just uh attrition, age, retirement. No one got, you know, it wasn't people got mad and left, it was just you know, natural. But then because of the Bible Institute training leaders, when we left, you know, there were what 39 or 40 trained pastors then. And there's no reason in the world they can't lead and take. And man, I mean, no one's perfect, you know that, but the job that they're doing and the leadership that's in that just incredible, godly, godly men. I mean, men you would absolutely love to work with in any any setting. So yeah, I think having that looking that direction, you know, when it comes, you're not surprised, and you're prepared, and you have prepared. And then as we broaden that to our partners, we're looking for those Free Will Baptist connections, people who want to be a part of what we as a denomination are doing, not necessarily what I am is doing, but what we're doing as a denomination collectively. I think it's a again, I'll say still a good moment to be with it, you know, be be in here.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah, that's awesome. That's that's really good news. So on the so you explained all the good news stuff, but for what opportunities or challenges are you seeing as far as you know the global missions today?

SPEAKER_00 32:40

I think, and and I will try not to, I'm gonna read a little bit here because this is something I shared with the board. Every at every board meeting, one of the things I do, I have an annual report to the board standing, you know, PowerPoint and stuff like that. And I always try to give them trends, anything that's happening, whether it's financial, economic, political, uh, spiritual, whatever, you know. I mean, and say these are the things that are affecting to some degree missions. This is part of what I gave them at the board meeting uh back in what in December. I said, you know, we are very excited. We're talking about uh seeing a hundred new missionaries commissioned. Let me make you aware of what this generation now we're not talking about necessarily Christians, but but the view of Christianity as it relates to this generation. And these, I think it answers very directly. These are some of the greater challenges to me. You have a generation, then from this generation, we're gonna draw and see our our next generation of missionaries. Now, that's what I say, you've got to put it into uh a worldview and not okay, this is true Baptist young people. But the worldview says they equate evangelism with intolerance. And what is one of the keys of missions is evangelism. And if our young people are influenced by that idea, then there's going to be a reluctance to do the second part, right? Minister, they're all in on ministering, by the way. That's that's a done deal. They love the social justice, they love those kind of things. But when it comes to evangelism, witnessing you're being intolerant, you're being judgmental. They see sin as a personal struggle, not as a moral rebellion. That, you know, that's not even scriptural. You know, and I talk, I meet with some college kids every Sunday, and one of the things we talk about, there are absolute rights and there are absolute wrongs. And if God has declared them, we do not, as Christians, have a right to justify nor condemn. That's not our job. But if God condemns it, we must condemn it. And if God justifies it, we must justify it. But all out there in the middle and that people don't like to talk about it. But I believe there's a wisdom zone out there. You know, there's a large wisdom zone. And God expects us at that point to be uh in tune with his Holy Spirit, as we talked about earlier, and that he gives us a hot liver if we're not doing things right. But young people today, they really just, well, this is just a struggle. No, it is a sin before God. You you understand what I'm saying? And then the church is distrusted, but they want community. And you know, you almost seen that. Okay, and I'm talking about Gen, the generation we're dealing with right now, uh, Gen Z. And the church is distrusted. I don't like the church. Oh, but I need community. What better place should you find community than in the church? So there's these contradictions that I think are gonna that are just juxtaposed that cause, you know, those poles of tension, I think. The they resonate with compassion, but retreat from proclamation. In other words, just you know, what I was saying a while ago, they minister, they want to do that, but don't get out there preaching to me. You know, don't tell people that they need salvation. They like Jesus, but distrust institutions and absolute truth. So that Jesus, you know, they're fine with Jesus because he was a great teacher and a great man. But you know, this thing of absolute truth, they can't put any stock in that. They believe in God, but not in a God who commands holiness or judgment. That's I mean, when you think I as I read this list, I can, okay, there are people that are coming to our colleges right now and they believe these things. What I'm telling you right now, they're there. And we're gonna have to deal with them. And and and when I say deal with them, that sounds terrible. We're gonna have to work with them, you know, and help. I because I think some of these positions are wrong. You know, you believe in God, but not in a God who commands holiness or judgment. God commands holiness and judgment, you know, and how can we sew these together so that it they're separating what doesn't need to be separated? You like Jesus as a person, but you don't want the absolute truth. That's not the option that's been given to us, correct? They deny the devil, but dabble in the demonic and spear stuff, you know. They want heaven, but without repentance or judgment. They, you know, they want they're they're fine with one of the heaven in paradise. And I mean, you hear it all the time, some unbeliever, and we know by their lives that they're unbelievers and they die, and then someone's up there talking about they're looking down on us from heaven. You know, that's the words that we hear. And our generation, this generation right now, this young generation, that's what they're coming into. And they're coming to us with those, you know, going into our colleges. And it's it's I think it's gonna be a challenge. It's gonna really be a challenge. Uh, I the group that I'm talking to on Sunday night, and uh, they're literally it started off several years ago, about three students, and you know, I sort of handpicked some that I really wanted to work with and disciple, try to mentor a little bit. They grew to seven, then to 12, then to 15, and now there's about 24 of them, you know, and not all of them are there every week, but we're just talking last week. Our our subject we discussed was, you know, what happens to those who've never heard the gospel, you know, and and trying to understand, listen carefully to them, asking questions and moving them. And I I think of it in a philosop uh uh education philosophical point of view, and that is influence and response. I know where I want them to go, but how do I get them there? And I can tell you it will not be by cause and effect. Well, that's wrong, you've got to, you know, we're asking questions, let them work through, walk through them. It's been a it's a joy and a journey, but I'm telling you, as we look at that, that's our next crop of, if you want to say that's our next crop of missionaries. We there's some work to be done, and I love it, and I'm challenged by it. And I think we need to be careful not to write that next generation off and just say, well, they're just a bunch of liberals and they don't know God and don't care what you know. I don't believe that at all. I think they're they're in a they're in a search, and you can crush them or you can walk with them. They they have the chameleon in the bin. Yeah, they have the chameleon in the grain bin. Excellent, excellent word, brother.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Um, so what are the areas of the world that are maybe more open to the gospel? You said we're only in six countries. We got 39 different countries that we're influencing, maybe working alongside of, but what are some of those? I guess maybe some hot places where maybe you're seeing, man, this could be another place we could we could go and really make an impact.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

There and looking at it from two different angles, and that is one, where will the mission where can the missionaries go? And if they go there, how are they going to go? You know, and to us, you know, God is this happened several years ago. 2017 sort of began a journey for me. Um, and I don't want to give all the background, I'll just say we had um, you know, a couple of partnerships at that time. Um but God just gave me an experience at the uh Ark, the Museum of the Ark, Noah's Ark, and I'm walking through that museum, come to the very last part, and they have the Bible, how the Bible, you know, you know, translate and everything in the Bible. Then I turn a corner and there's a big world map, and there's India. And from the distance, I'm 15, 20 feet away, and I see that map, and it's all red, and I think, oh, that's interesting color for India. I get close, and right there on the little legend, it says, Every pin represents an unreached people group. And India's just covered. I mean, you know, a billion people, and just and I I'm telling you, telling you, it was like if I've ever had an epiphany, I'm gonna call it an epiphany, is that God said, and they need the gospel. And I and I said verbally, almost I went in into inside and later said it out like, yes, okay. Wherever you say yes, that's where we're gonna go. I came back and our leadership team will tell you this is the way it happened. I came back and I shared the story with them. I said, guys, we have been, we've let a lot of things control us. And you know, public opinion, people's thoughts about, well, you know, we only have so much money, and are you want to spend it over there? And if you give the money to there, then you know, our I said, end of this end of that discussion, okay? Where God directs us and he says, yes, he he says, go in this direction. That's where we're gonna go. And I mean, since then, Morocco, Tunisia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, you know, these areas that God has just expanded our vision and and we believe, you know, in places in Africa where we've not been in countries and you know, and they're there are at least three couples that I know have said spoken to me in the last year saying, I want to go to a restricted access country. And, you know, we're just waiting for them to process and go through everything. And we want them to come to us and say, you know, this is where I want to go. Um, and you know, uh and I know I don't want I'm not trying to be quippy, I'm just saying I heard this and I thought there was so much truth in this. You can go anywhere in the world if you don't mind if you don't come out. And and I think that is gonna be the line we're crossing. And I feel that there are some young people that I'm talking to, college students, and said, I just want to go where the gospel absolutely has never been. Will I am send us? And I said, Yes, we will. Let's work together. So I think that is, you know, we've seen God already open these doors and opportunities, and I think there are more out there. And some of it will be with through our partners, for example. We we're reaching into areas in Pakistan, even into Afghanistan through our partners that we could never send a missionary there. A missionary wouldn't last a week there, they'd get killed. But you know, the people can go. And I I'm just amazed at what God is doing, and we do want to just say yes. He says, Here's an open door, okay. We're good. Let's go. And I love it. And I we and the teams in. I mean, that that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Yeah, that's a wow, that's really exciting. Um gives me uh gives me goosebumps. Well, how along those same lines then, how can you know a local church like Unity, you know, participate More meaningfully in global missions. You know, what else can we do to help support you in our, you know, I am's mission?

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Um, one of the things I would go back to, and I this is something I said. I I don't mind saying I'm wrong. I really don't. I don't want to be wrong, but sometimes, you know, I used to say it is not our responsibility at IM to educate our denomination. I thought it was pastor's responsibility. But I really come to the conclusion it is our responsibility at IM. You know, so I would love for you or churches to open up the possibility of I am personnel coming and doing things like Go Global, some of these things they're, you know, 101 missions and talk about and have discussions, even like what you're doing here. Ask questions, get let people get a vision. I think that's where it starts. And sometimes it starts with a very small group. And, you know, if say you're a church of, I don't know how many churches, you know, but you have five people in your church that are passionate about this, don't say, well, we got all these people, and we only got five. I would say don't be discouraged. If you have one, if you have five, if you have ten, and start with them and help them get richly educated, richly informed about missions and the possibilities. And let them create uh, if you want to say an education plan, but create a way to get the people involved. It goes back to what I said earlier, Tim. We are not change agents. We're agents of change. And there are people in your church and in our churches that can get other people excited about missions where we couldn't, we wouldn't have a chance. You know, we can come in and give the best thing in the world, but until people in Unity Church, and I'll just give that as an example, and I know your church is a mission church, I don't have any doubt about that. But say we come in and to a church and say, okay, this and talk about missions, and then you have five or ten people that are excited, that's going to make a difference. That'd be one is educate that church and then engage them. You know, you want to call people and everyone's not going to go. We know that. And you be honest, you don't want everyone to go. There's some people you don't want to go. You can't say that. We're just counting on God to keep them from going because, you know, for various and sundry reasons. But I would say, and then as you have as many missionaries in as many different situations as you can. Every missionary does not have to speak from the podium. If you have a five or ten people in your church that are excited and they have a class, you know, uh whatever we call them, life group, or what you guys call them, you know, and they say, We've we've done that at Donaldson. We've had missionaries in our life group that have not spoken before the whole church. But someone in our life group knew them, wanted them to come in, you know, and then our life group has adopted them. By the way, your family, bishops are one of them. Yeah, I know he's spoken before, but I'm just saying our life group uh have adopted your your kids, your family. I mean, I've taken them gifts before from from our life group. And it just became from one person in the class having a passion, say, hey, we got this young family. What can we do for them? And I love that. So, you know, try to explore possibilities other than the Sunday morning, Sunday night, whatever services you have. There are there are dinners, there are, you know, there are life groups, there are sports events, there are camps, you know, invite uh missionaries to summer camp, uh, whatever. Uh, invite them to your couples' retreats or something like that. Not necessarily to speak, say, hey, come and get to know our people. So exposure is education to a great degree. You know, the more they meet the people and they build that relationship, you know, and uh those are some we know the norms, praying and you know, supporting, those those things are good. They're excellent. We don't want to lose those, but I think the more informed people are and the more inspired they are, the more engaged they will be. So uh uh opportunities to be informed and stories that inspire and a call to engagement, you know, a couple of things that just really run through my mind right quick of what we can do. I don't know, that answer your question a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Um yeah, I think it, you know, uh we just try to look at how they can get engaged beyond just praying or giving financial support, you know. And so really, you know, maybe that's a small group that forms that uh unity is hey, we just want to get together once a week and focus on missions and you know, however, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

That's a great idea. I think even a focused group, you know. But like I said, that is the kind of draw draw out the ones that are interested first and build, you know, that's the kindling and build a fire on top of the kinling, you know, don't build a fire on the rock order because that's going to be hard. But if you have some who have you you sense a little spark in them, say, hey, can we get together and then have someone from Miami or one of the missionaries or you know, and uh I mean, you've got a great opportunity because you've got family members that are involved, but I think you know, make it as large and as elastic as you possibly can and varied. You know, you want people that are focused on, you know, um education and those that because it's like this if you have someone who comes in and he's talking about teaching at a Bible institute, they're gonna be okay, okay, I'm good with that. But then if it but someone's talking about digging wells, oh yeah, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna do that, you know. And but then again, someone else is gonna come in and they're gonna love the Bible Institute, but they're uh someone else can dig a well, you know. So you have those people with those different interests, whether it's education, whether it's working, construction, whether it's you know, philosophy or whatever, you can go into any field you want. And there'd be people in that congregation that's gonna tap them a little bit. But so many times it's like we're just tapping those who really are sold out for Christ and they're you know really interested. Do we not think about building that fire bigger, you know? And how do we do that? And you know that. I mean, it's just the law of life. You start with kindling, right? You start with a flame and you let that grow. And I I know fire's not the best example, but at least if we understand it.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Well, are there some you know, we talked about the challenges, we talked about, you know, places that are maybe more open to the gospel that you've seen exposed over the last you know few years. What are some other places that maybe unexpected? Like I think this was Jeff I heard the other week, you know, talking about Iran, and I cannot remember the other country, you know, that man, their spiritual growth is just getting off the charts.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Well, I think what we're seeing right now, Iran is a good example, but I think it's even among the Muslim nations, you know, uh there there is an openness because there is a, I think a pretty fundamental uh frustration with Islam. You know, people uh and what has made the difference is uh social media, internet, you know. Um, and God uses those tools to bring people to an awareness, you know, and then they go, well, this really isn't oppressive. This is there really are people who are free. There really are possibilities of a religion that's not bent on destruction uh, you know, of other nations. And I think that is something we're gonna have to keep our minds uh, you know, focused on. And like, and I do think of uh places I think of would be Iran, uh, but I also think of Jordan, you know, the country of Jordan. I hear and understand that that is also, you know, one of those places, places under great persecution, but God is still great at work is Nigeria. You know, I mean, it's a horrible, horrible place to walk into, you know, as a Christian, but God is using that to, you know, to strengthen the Christians every day. An interesting thing that is really happening in Europe is, and this is my my hypothesis a little bit, but I think it's supportable. And that is uh there was a time France, Spain, uh, we give those two, and for example, where we have missionaries, where there was a the cultural revolution back in the 60s, and that was just leave everything that's ever been done in sort of like deconstruction, uh, you know, before deconstruction became cool, and you know, there's just everything's bad. And then the church gets lumped up into that, and and the church was dead. The church was dead in France. I mean, the Catholic Church, you know, 85% Catholic at one time, and it was nothing. It wasn't, it wasn't bringing transformation, it wasn't bringing hope, it wasn't meeting people's needs. So there was a rejection of that. So people pursued in Europe, they pursued philosophy, they pursued everything else. And I believe that we have come to the end of that, if you want to say that, you know, there's a hot pursuit and then it cools off and it's giving nothing, it's not giving hope. And now where are we going to find hope? And I I mean, I know for most Protestants we may not be encouraged by this, but there's a 15% growth in the Catholic Church in last year in Europe. And it says that people are coming, young people, these are young people, they're coming, you know, they they're looking again to the church. This is the golden opportunity. Golden opportunity in my estimation for Christians to see and to seize a moment. And what are we and I love G Pons in France? Oh my, that's such a good are you familiar with that, I'm sure, with the Teagues and you know, where they are speaking to people contextually about the gospel, and it is having an an enormous impact. And I believe if we could quadruple, you know, have multiply that by and yeah, it's answering because if you don't give them an answer, they will go to a false answer. We know that. People are going to say, if you're looking for it, you're gonna you're gonna find something that's gonna appease that thirst, and that's where you're gonna wind up. So the question is is will evangelical Christianity and evangelical mission agencies know these places and really give an all-out concerted effort to, you know, get into Europe, get into the Arab nations, get into, you know, places that God is it's a moment of softening of their hearts, and you miss it, you take it, you miss it. And then history is riff with stories where there were countries, kings, leaders that were ready, and Christianity did not respond. And God forbid that that happened to us.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Well, I appreciate you, you know, kind of leading that charge, and I feel definitely feel like we're in good hands with that. But before we close, tell us one thing that excites you about the future of global missions. Young people.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

I'm telling you, I love I love to see that spark. And I there's some young people, and I know some kids at Welch, I know some kids at Southeastern, you know, and when I just hear them, you know, feel that they're just all about what does God want me to do? And they can't, they're just anticipating what God is going to do, and they can be a part of what God is doing. And so when I see young people get excited, I love our, I love our denomination. I've already said that. I feel like that we're at a very good time, but I hope our young people feel that fire. And I do believe that they're some quality, high, highly committed young people. And to me, every I can't I can't tell you how much I love being around them. But when I hear, hear them and see them in that, you know, that sold-out, I'm all in, I'm walking with Jesus, I'm gonna give my all. And some of them saying I'm willing to die if I have to, and knowing they really mean it. You know, and I I hope they don't, but I mean, I think that is where we need to get to in our lives, is just saying, I'm I'm ready. I know one of our young missionaries, he said, Um, I don't, I don't care where I go. Wherever I go, I'm going to go make disciples. And I know him and I believe him. And I said, you know, and I would go, I would want to go with him anywhere because I just know that passion is burning. So that's my hope. It really is. I just feel like that there's a lot, you know, we look at our young people, we can get really discouraged and say, oh man, they're just drifting off here. And there are, you know, I listed some things that do concern us. But if we just go, oh my, those poor young people are running off the rails, or we're gonna say, Lord, help me to help them in any way that you can. And when they come to us and they are on fire for the for him, then we we we need a place for them. We want a place for them, and we want our Pharaoh Baptist people to get behind them and say, Yeah, we can do this. Let's go together. And yeah, it's a good time. That that does, but young people that makes me excited. And I love our partners too. I think our partnerships are just amazing, you know. God giving us these other opportunities. And like I said, I never dreamed of ministry in Bangladesh and Pakistan and some of the places in India and some of these, you know, I didn't I I should have, but you know, God is so good and give us these opportunities and open these doors, and that's what we want to do. So it's a good time, man. I I do, I mean that sincerely.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

It's just been so exciting to hear all that you've had to share. And, you know, I hope your passion comes across to our listeners, you know, that you have for missions. And, you know, that saying is, you know, where there is no vision, the people will perish. You know, you definitely have a vision uh for where international missions needs to go. And I'm so glad that you gave me so much time, gave our listeners so much time to hear from you. And um, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Well, thank you. I consider it a privilege to to talk and to share what you know what God's doing around the world. And I really do appreciate this opportunity, more than I can say to you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Well, before I sign out, I want to pray for you and uh and then we'll kind of head off from there. All right. So, dear heavenly father, thank you for your heart for the nations. Thank you for Clint and all that he is doing and his vision and leadership for global missions, Lord. You are doing such a great work through him and through international missions, and uh your hand is definitely upon them, and we just ask that you would continue to guide and direct them and where it is you would have them to go and give them a peace and understanding that they can clearly see as they go to put the seed out to you know, try and reap that harvest, Lord. And we just thank you so much for all that you do and help them to meet those goals of a hundred new missionaries, Lord, and um the financial needs that He expressed and that you would continue to work through your people to make that five-year plan and the future horizon come to come to fruition, Lord. So we just thank you for for all of that. In thy name I pray, amen. So thank you so much. And as I tell our listeners at the end of every episode, as God is writing the story in your life, go and tell.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

Go and tell.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

Thanks so much for listening to the Unity Community Podcast. If today's conversation encouraged you, we'd love for you to take one or more next steps. Join us this Sunday morning for worship at 9 or 1030. Get connected to a life group andor find a place to serve. You can learn more about Unity and how to get plugged in by visiting the links in the show notes. So until next time, let's grow closer to the Lord as we grow closer to one to another.