Review and outlook

In the last pod before Christmas, listen to the Montel team discussing the key issues of 2019, and the significant developments shaping Europe’s energy markets next year. 

Host: 

• Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel. 

Guests: 

• Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel, 
• Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel, 
• Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel, 
• Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel. 

Produced by Anna Siwecka. 

Music by Laurence Walker.

Transcript

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 0:05

Hello, listeners, and welcome to a Christmas edition of the Montel Weekly podcast. Ho, ho, ho, ho, bringing the most topical energy matters in a festive way. My name is Richard Sverrisson and I'm joined today by a bunch of my colleagues at Montel Nora Kamprath Buli, who's editor Germany. Welcome to Nora Merry Christmas, and Olav Vilnes Chief Editor Nordics. Welcome to Olav. Thank you and Gert Ove. Happy to have you back on Reporter Nordics. Thank you. And finally last but not least, Morten Hegna, who's markets manager at Montel. Welcome to you. Thank you, Richard. Thank you. Today we want to have a roundup of the year that's just gone and to look forward. Now, if I can start by just looking at some of the highs and lows. In Germany. Nora what would you say, what were the high points or what were the most important aspects or developments in Germany last year or this year?

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 0:56

Well, first brings to mind that we've had a massive drop in the wind power expansion at a time when Germany's counting most on the building out its renewables base. At the same time, we've made progress with plans to announce a call exit, which was announced at the beginning of the year now has been or taken the rest of the year to kind of. Formalizing was still not quite there. But I think those two have been key developments for, for Germany for this year and going forward.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 1:23

And that's something that will obviously continue to impact next year as well. We'll come back to that later, Nora, but, but how about our, in the, in the Nordic markets, all of them gap? Maybe I can start with you all of,

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 1:32

I think one very major impact is of course the huge renewable expansion that you've seen in across the region, and particularly when it comes to wind in Norway and Sweden. And what you've seen in Norway this year is the. The counter effect on that. I mean, you're see the opposition coming up. Mm. Limiting the growth problem potentially in the future. Mm. With with people sort of being against wind power. For environmental reasons and also for for just for the visual reasons and

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 1:57

so a slow down in the nugs but for different reasons and a different background than in Germany. How about you, Gert? High points are the most key elements of this year.

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 2:05

Of course, the wind power debate has kind of been the most important thing, but we also sense that some peaking up on the demand side. The oil industry is. Seems very keen to connect the platforms to the grid to get power from shore. And that might change the picture quite a bit, going a few years ahead with they have around maybe 2000 megawatts increased power consumption, which will turn out to be maybe 17 tet hours. A year of increased consumption.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 2:35

So how much of that came online this

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 2:37

year? Well that's, yeah, that's that. This is plans a bit going forward. The, the, the power sec, the oil sector used today around 12 rah hours a year. Okay. And it might more than double that. And that's an increase of more than 10% of the Norwegian car power con consumption. Yeah. So that might be definitely. And what

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 2:57

kind of timeframe are we talking

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 2:58

about? Maybe five years ahead. So it's, it can really pick up in a quite short time here

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 3:03

what you as you, you know, you are a very close observer of the market. You're not one of the brightest of the stories here at, but what do you think

Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel: 3:09

from what we have experienced from the clients is that they are very concerned about the market development as such. In the Nordics, there a setback with the. Happenings in 2018 that we will not cover that much now, but still the liquidity in the market has not raised again. And that has troubled the players a lot. And we have discussed this on several events during the year as well. How to make this market better, having more consumption coming in now in the Nordics potentially that could actually increase the interest of trading in the Nordic market. And also how to. Phase all the phase, the renewables with of course also. It changed the market and and may impact how people will will use this market in the tactical,

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 3:49

well, last year in 2018, we, there was the big an o os, uh, instance, but has that still had ramifications this year, would you say, Morten?

Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel: 3:58

Yes. It has still there have been new members at NASDAQ as well. Some has also turned down their business, but when it comes to the volumes, of course, that is really lacking compared to the good old days. Absolutely when you had the huge players. Absolutely.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 4:12

So, um, another key element for me has been. The continuing, uh, problems at French nuclear reactors, which has, you know, which have been, uh, have been driving, uh, you know, certainly the market in, in certain, at certain points throughout the year. So we had the issues with the steam generators and then the earthquakes at s uh, and those s reactors, you know, they're. They're, they're due back online, but they've certainly been offline for several weeks. But there are other nuclear plants coming offline, aren't there, Nora? So sort of, uh, this year,

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 4:41

yes. Germany is losing a 1.4 gigawatt nuclear plant with Philip Book two. Is due to close at the end of the year. So obviously it's already in a sort of stretch out mode at the moment. Where it's a bit by bit reducing capacity, but the market has known. About this for a long time, it priced him. More of a wild card is potentially a dispute over remaining running hours for the nuclear plant gonder. A dispute between and eon which could potentially result in an earlier closure. So that in the future.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 5:11

That's a dispute between the companies and also the government. I mean, is it is a matter of compensation or

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 5:16

it's more between the companies? The government has allowed for leftover quota from power plants that are already closed to be transferred. To others the Goda plant is co-owned or No the criminal plant was co-owned and it's about the quota left from that. And how they split that between the two companies. And there's an argument how much it should pay for it. Okay. In order for it to go to Eon, which. Needed to operate other plants for longer.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 5:40

Nordic reactors are certainly a little bit more stable, robust than maybe some of their counterparts on the continent. At least if that's what the headlines tell us. But there's another plant coming offline here, isn't there? Not in 2019. Olav can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah.

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 5:53

You have the ring house nuclear reactor in Sweden. You had the the second reactor there, 900 megawatt that will be shut down at the end of this year. And then there's another wrinkles, one reactor that will be closed at the end of next year. So if you add that to the two Oscars hungry actors that was shut down a couple of years ago, then you have in the end almost a third of Sweden's nuclear fleet that has been shut down in just three or four years. That has of course, a big impact on the power balance in Sweden. And you've seen the, there are concern about the security of supply balance in the south of the country. So if you couple that with perhaps a lack of grid planning and all the wind farms coming up in the north. You have challenges there for a system that is that has been quite, significant. And there are concerns in neighboring countries that Sweden maybe start curbing exports, for example, Denmark, if there are problems at home. Okay. And that is an old, there's

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 6:40

an old problem there also in the past between those good neighbors there and the Swedes and the Danes. But what's replacing that lost capacity? What's meeting the shortfall? Is that, is it new wind or is it

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 6:50

yeah, yeah. There's a massive expansion of wind in Sweden in the combined Norwegian, Swedish scheme that has been built. 31.2 tower hours since 2012. Which is an incredible number. 21 of 21.6 of that is in Sweden. And there's a bit bio, but mainly wind power, and it's mainly located in the two northernmost price areas in Sweden, SA one and SA two. So there is a risk of a really low prices in the north of the country. And bottlenecks and to the south, and then maybe a much more constrained situation in the south because there are the main consumption and well, people living there. Exactly. The populated

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 7:28

areas. Absolutely. So that's why this discussion with pushing the bottlenecks to the border. Yeah,

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 7:33

absolutely.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 7:33

Absolutely. Yeah. So there we have. You know, increased demand. We haven't even talked about data centers yet. No. But, uh, increased demand from, from the offshore. Fallback in supply. What does this say about the

Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel: 7:42

market Morten? From what I see and what the players also tell us is that, it will change the market but it also should make new possibilities for them. I think, again, it's very much depending upon how the weather will develop. So don't forget about that. We saw this year that it has been very nice trends to follow based upon reliable bad forecast, and we see in the up and down trends following the pricing loss. Which is mostly related to weather.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 8:09

I mean, what are the seasonal forecasts saying for, for the Q1 or the, the months ahead? Has anyone been following that or have you been,

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 8:16

I haven't followed that with the seasonal forecast, but if you look at the monthly forecast, there's a fresh monthly forecast which show that it'll be very mild next week, but then you would, it'll probably turn colder. It'll turn drier from the middle of December. And you can look at this meshes you have from the analysts of the hydrological balance in Nordic region shows a deficit. So we have less power in less hydropower in storage than a normal year, which is bullish for prices. But it's not a big deficit. So I think there's still quite normal prices that they expect. And the price, the Q1 price in the Nordic region is still priced below continental levels. There is like a three euros difference there to, up to, to below Germany. So what about on a continent, Nora,

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 8:54

the latest to forecast it? It has turned out a little bit cooler for December than a previous forecast have indicated That has led to slightly higher assumptions. Mostly for December, though Q1 is still too uncertain of Germany, mostly being driven also by wind. Temperatures don't tend to impact as much on power prices as wind does, but oftentimes in the winter, mild weather goes hand in hand with the. And with a lot of wind and vice versa.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 9:23

So it could be, have a, that kind of impact. We could be seeing that again, it doesn't look like there's gonna be a beast from the east, but then you never know. You know, if you come, come January, it's probably come, come around the al time, which is the, I'm a big trader. That's normally when these things happen. But, but Nora, um, what other, you know, for those listeners out there who want to maybe think about the key events next year, I mean, you discussed the coal exit. Sure. Will we see coal plants coming off the grid? And even, you know, the, a shortfall in, in supply in Germany. Could that happen? And what are the other, uh, key drivers for for next year, do you think?

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 9:55

It's a good question whether we're going to see any plants coming offline. The coal exit law isn't done and dusted yet. We only have seen drafts that are still up for discussion. The sort of hardest evidence of potential closures we have at the moment is tenders. For four gigawatts of closure that will be roughly next summer are supposed to be held. However, there are concerns in the market that there is not enough incentive for anyone to bid into these and there is no fallback in the current draft. What happens if, you know the auction isn't filled? So then nothing gets shut down.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 10:29

Okay.

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 10:30

So it's, there's

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 10:31

that option. So there is the option that actually this big song and dance about a coal exit. We could be waiting years and years, if not, you know, uh,

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 10:38

until 26, at least we put 27 there. Changing the model, then you don't bid for your plant to go out of the market. They are planning to shut down units based on h. But that is still several years to go.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 10:50

Absolutely. And I think the crucial element or the crucial question that a lot of carbon market participants want answer is what happens to the aua? I mean, that's still, that's still up in the air, isn't it? Knows. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. Yeah.

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 11:02

It's not fully mentioned in the, in the draft with. Seen so far, it does not say they will be canceled. And there is a big, I guess, resistance from the finance ministry in Germany to forego the income. That's auctioning off your allowances generate, but of course everyone's arguing that if you do not cancel them, then what is the point of any closures? You will just shift the co-production to eastern count Eastern European countries. It makes climatically absolutely no sense. Yeah. And we keep hearing that. And of course it will create a huge oversupply

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 11:33

in the market. Yeah. It's that there's that constant balance between the climate and energy minister who want to be seen to doing right for the environment. But then you've got the finance ministry who want to pulling the purse strings, how about in the Nordic region, Ola, what are the key issues here for next year

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 11:47

markets in general? I think there is this, of course, the, the way they adapt to climate targets will be important. I mean, if you look at last year you had two new governments coming up in, like in Denmark you had a new, very ambitious target for climate reduction. 70% cut by 2030. That will mean a lot for the, even for even more wind power. And and maybe more use of interconnectors to other countries. Finland had a very high ambitious carbon neutrality target by 2035. Which will speed up their way away from coal, away from fossil fuels and into and more wind. They're building a lot of wind power in Finland without subsidies now.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 12:19

Seems a very common thread. This win-win. Yeah. It's win-win. It's a win-win situation. It's a win-win. Yeah.

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 12:25

And, and of course, the fins also have a higher local spot price. Mm. So in that sense, makes it more profitable in Finland, uh, even though the wind conditions may not, may not be as good as in Norway, they have low prices on average, higher price of average which is so that's one aspect that will be important this year. Absolutely. Any other

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 12:41

notable,

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 12:42

Yeah, definitely. Did you

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 12:43

mention that? Yeah, definitely. That's one year from now, but in the end of 2020, the new link between Norway and Germany. Okay. The nor the Nordic Interconnector 1.4 gig Yeah. Will start test runs. And then you have the first direct link from the Norwegian power market to Germany. And that might, and very hard to say how the flow would go. There's grid constraints in Germany. What will happen if the prices in nor Norway are lower than in Germany? And the flow should go south. But will you be able to export the power? We have been asking Starnet, the Norwegian, TSO, this over and over, and we never put it mildly. We don't get a clear answer. Exactly, exactly. Maybe they don't have a clear answer. Well, I would hope they would, but Yeah. Yeah. But I think they're a bit. Nervous and excited as well, just just to see how it will be

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 13:30

because the sort of idea has often been that you have the Nordic region as the battery for continental Europe, but that may not necessarily be true. Then if I understand you, it could be. German wind being exported to, to, to Norway,

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 13:43

definitely in a large scale, but it's so hard to predict and so hard to model, I think for, so we speak to our analysts and they don't dare to come with a clear answer. So, and one example is maybe the Cobra link between the Netherlands and Denmark. That was started up in September this year. And it all, the, not all but many analysts pointed to this as a dear. Export cable from the Nordic region to the the Netherlands. Then due to the low gas prices, power in Netherlands have been cheaper than in the Nordic regions, and there has been a lot of imports on that cable. So quite the opposite.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 14:18

It all depends on the fundamentals, of course, and the weather, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, so it's, it'll be interesting to see how that develops. I know that Norwegian industry has always been very opposed to new cables and interconnectors 'cause they fear the higher prices, but maybe they might start welcoming the with open arms. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 14:34

Yeah. Especially if you combine it with the build out of

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 14:37

more

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 14:37

wind

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 14:37

power. So how about from a market perspective what are you hearing from people out there, Morton? What are the key areas that will be important? In 2020?

Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel: 14:45

I think it's very important for people to take part in the market because the market has been criticized for not having enough traders, hedgers not the trading, the short or the medium term products and not. Hedge in the way that they did. And what I am looking forward to for next year would be maybe to have an increased liquidity in the nearest products.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 15:05

These actors are very important. They're important part of the market. And, you know, hope, hope to, to see, see them coming back in. What about in Germany related to the coal exit? Are we, you know, there are also these big huge ignite plants. Yeah. What's happening here? They, they may be announcing some closures or not. What's the story?

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 15:23

Yeah. So far they the late night closures have been excluded from the draft. Those four gigs I mentioned earlier were only for hard coal. And the problem there is that there's basically two huge producers. R and so you cannot have tenders, so you need to negotiate on a sort of bilateral basis. And what we have heard so far is there is no agreement because some or one producer is demanding fantasy prices. We have heard for closing. Okay. Apparently. REE is more willing or has a better idea of what prices they might live with for closing some of their capacity. Now if there is agreement and fairly quickly we may see closures from RWE potentially as early as next year, but we don't know any details or how much capacity that will be though. Of course, I mean there, there are plans to sort of cut ignite fine output by 3.1 gigawatt. Hmm. Uh, already by the end of 2022. So those have to come most likely from the Rhineland, which is auto's heartland. Okay.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 16:19

So there could be more developments there in the months ahead. I mean, I, I think from my perspective, really as well, looking at France, I think that's gonna be a key driver of prices. And I think, you know, we'll get some more, more details about the crew as elements. We'll get some more into of the steam generator issues at some of the reactors. But I think we'll also see the start of the fourth 10 year inspections of a whole fleet of, of French nuclear plants. Which, which according to our calculations so far this year, the third 10 year extensions, all the ones that had 10 year inspections this year will be delayed by up to 400 days. So I think, you know, I think we'll, we'll be keeping, so, um, this is something that we'll be looking, looking or keeping a very close eye on, especially the French team. But on a more of a policy side, there's the new commission coming in, all of, if they. Announce a more ambitious climate policy that could have a clear, clear impact on prices, certainly, and on, on the market structure.

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 17:16

Yeah. You had your new European commissioner approved by the parliament and a new commissioner from Germany on the lion. She says that. She wants to increase the CO2 emission cut targets. She wants to even in introduce a carbon border tax, which can be crucial by sort of, uh, putting a CO2 price on imported goods and even electricity imports. And you saw this this week that European Parliament, they they said they wanted a 55% reduction target by 2030, up from 40% currently. Putting pressure on the new commission to deliver. And even declared a carbon crisis, as they call it. Yeah, absolutely. Sort of she, the commission then have to align all their policies with this 1.5 degree target from the Paris Accord. So all these things will push them in the right direction. But we already seen the NGOs coming out and say, these new commission plans aren't ambitious enough. Yeah, exactly. So there be, there be pressure to be even more ambitious.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 18:04

Clearly. And I think it's coming not just from the parliament or the companies or the NGOs. But also from the population at large, from the grassroots level, you know, the Greta Tomba Extinction Rebellion. I think, you know, I think these would, they will start, have a bit of a snowball effect here if we stay with 2020 Morton. If you had a magic wand and I could grant you a wish, what would your wish be for 2020?

Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel: 18:28

That was a tricky question. Or my wish would be that players are supporting the market and, really comes into back into where they were some years ago, maybe with sharing or increasing the liquidity and also human transparency also which could absolutely improve in certain markets. And that is something we will of course, support and, we are doing that by you of course the news desk and also by addressing all these different topics on the conference that we'll make in 2020.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 18:56

How about you go for granted? You one magic wish one wish for the market. What would you want?

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 18:59

I haven't prepared. Keep it clean. Keep

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 19:01

it clean. For me personally I think. You know, I, I would like to see more transparency around French nuclear plants. I think often, uh, the information is lacking. It's very scant. It comes late. It's, it's got holes in it. We don't really know what's going on. I think if I had a magic touch for the, you know, the CEO of E-D-F-Y-S-N, I'd say, please grant us more information about this.'cause it's, I think it calmed the market down. It would give that, provide with that kind of robust feeling that we, we, we know what's going on. Um, yeah, and I would say

Gert Ove Mollestad, Reporter, Montel: 19:33

get. The grid building going it's crucial to utilize the, all the wind and solar power that is being built. You need to ship the power around to get an efficient market, and then there's so much lagging snails pace. Yeah. And both regular side and governments and TSOs. It's too slow. They have to speed up. That would be good for the market, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. How about you

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 19:54

all?

Olav Vilnes, Chief Editor Nordics, Montel: 19:54

Yeah. What would you, from the market, you mentioned transparency, I think is also crucial to get the. Information and get easy accessible, maybe on a European platform that it is easy to use, that can give people information about available outages and so on. That would be great. And from a journalistic perspective, it also be good to have executives speaking their mind. Yeah. Giving us good

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 20:11

stories in 2020. That be Exactly, yeah. The key quotes. The killer quotes. I think that would be very useful. How about you, Nora? I

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 20:18

don't know. Nobody will limb will ever speak to me again. But I would just like more gutsy German politicians. I think they really just need to follow through on what they started. They come with very big ambitions every time. And then it gets rolled back. It gets rolled back step by step, and you end up with the construction that is neither meat or official, whatever they say sometimes. And it just, that means every three years we revisit the same points over and over and over again. We have not come. Any further than we were three or four years ago. And I think it's really just time for a bigger push.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 20:49

And I think this is what what Gert was mentioning here is also about the grid. I think that's certainly been in Germany. What was the plan? Nearly 2000 kilometers. And they built what 26 last year or something? Or this year? I mean,

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 21:00

no, I think that was per quarter, but Okay. The problem is once you, you've got everything ruled up and, and, and, and, and ready to go, you can build quite quickly. But we always see opposition and they're trying to find new ways of. Sort of stymieing the opposition. Like if we give more, more leeway, if we allow wider sort of distances to to housing or that you don't see, you know, the cables there that are being built, then this will reduce opposition. You just open up a new can of worms. Yeah, you can't please everybody and someone just has to be. Bold enough, um, to say that, and who knows? The current Grand Coalition isn't doing particularly well. Mm-hmm. If it all goes, uh, you know, belly up, uh, we may have another election and the greens are looking fairly strong. Maybe they can bring the push needed, but, you know.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 21:46

Yeah, absolutely. So you, there's a Clark Clear call for. Politicians to, to stand by their convictions there and go for it. Be bold, be courageous. Um, if

Nora Kamprath Buli, Editor Germany, Montel: 21:54

they haven't,

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 21:55

yeah, absolutely. Um, to sort of round off here in Morden, I'd like to sort of finish with you 'cause obviously 2020 is gonna be a very busy year for Montel and we have a very, uh, big calendar for, for events. Yes. Could you, could you say a few

Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel: 22:11

words about that more? Absolutely, Richard. All the topics that we have talked about now here in, in this pod will also be. Covered in the different events that we will make in 2020. All over Europe. Starting in, in Denmark and in Oslo. And we also have another parliament in, in, in Austria where we will cover issues related to what's going on in the Swiss and Austrian region. That is important. Further on, we will talk about the nuclear situation in France on our French today in April. And moving along to Germany and to Stockholm and to Finland as well, where we have. Regional conferences covering all European matters. We have 20 events throughout the next year, which will be. Or key interest for so many people. I think

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 22:53

covering all the key topic issues that I think will continue to drive, not just markets, but also policy and hopefully will cover the

Morten Hegna, Sales Director, Montel: 23:01

most important factors anyway. Yeah, absolutely. And and then as Ola said, having top management to the podium and with the interviews from you guys we will surely lift topics which are relevant for all our listeners in the time to

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 23:13

come. Absolutely. Now, hopefully we'll have some brave politicians as well coming down, not afraid to speak their minds. Excellent guys, thank you all very much for joining this end of year Christmas special. It's just enough for me to say ho ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. Merry Christmas. Christmas. Merry Christmas. Thank you listeners. That's all for now. Remember to keep up to date on all the latest news on Monte online, and you can follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter. You can subscribe to the Monte Weekly podcast on Apple Podcast and Spotify. Happy Christmas. I.