Chalk and Cheese

What a difference a year makes. In 2020 gas prices plunged to record lows, but this year they have rebounded dramatically, surging to multi-year highs on cooler weather, supply concerns and low storage. 

Listen to a discussion on whether Gazprom’s recent use of Ukrainian spare transit capacity was driven by geopolitics or economics, as well as other market developments, outages at LNG facilities and the short-term outlook.

Host: 

• Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel

Guests: 

• Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv.
• Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv.

Transcript

Anna Siwecka, freelance journalist/podcaster: 0:01

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Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 0:29

Hello, listeners and welcome to the Montel Weekly podcast, bring You Energy Matters in an informal setting. This week's topic is gas. European gas prices have surged to multi-year highs in recent weeks, amid concerns over supply, both pipeline and LNG, very high carbon prices, colder weather, and low storage levels. To talk us through current market dynamics, what's really happening at the moment? The main price drivers and the outlook for the coming weeks is Wayne Bryan of Refinitiv and his colleague Iryna Sereda. Also from Refinitiv, but based in Kiev. A very warm welcome to you both.

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 1:08

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 1:10

Hi, Richard. Nice to speak to you again. Been a while.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 1:13

Welcome back, Wayne. How you doing?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 1:14

Very well, thank you Very well. Things are on the up. Yeah. Looking a lot better.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 1:19

Happy that the barber shops reopened.

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 1:21

Yeah. Always good to be able to go and do those sort of things at the gym as well. And yeah, and obviously the local, so yeah, think we're definitely in a better place.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 1:30

Excellent. And Iryna how is life in Kiev under COVID? We don't hear so much about the Ukraine.

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 1:35

Yeah, actually it's getting better. We are out of lockdown since 30th of April. Now we're allowed to go to restaurants, to visit the shopping mall. So it is getting better.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 1:45

Excellent. I wanna start off by talking about current market dynamics. Wayne was the market or sort of market participants a bit complacent given, what happened last year and very low prices. This year had been quite a rude shock.

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 1:56

In terms of prices, it's definitely a rude shock if you look at the sort of levels where prices are trading at. On Thursday, we're seeing prices around 25 euros per mega hour on ttf. If you go back to this time last year, we're at 5.5 euros per megawatt hour, and I was even having a little lock earlier, and I think by the 21st of May we'd fall into three euros, a megawatt hour. So that alone tells you a different, similar story with the MBP. Really with is an unbelievable 53 pence per firm, higher. Today or Thursday than it was in 2020. So price wise, it's a completely different situation. And of course, the fundamentals of the market are quite different this year as well. So yeah, there, there's quite a lot going on at the moment that's contributing to this high price environment we're currently in. What are the main drivers when the extent storage concern is obviously the main problem here compared to last year when storages were quite elevated and full quite quickly this year, current storage levels are around 30% for the. Again, this time last year we're around 65%, so huge amount to be replenished. And then normally, obviously April is the start of injection season, but we've actually seen quite a lot of withdrawals. There was net withdrawals at some of the large facilities that Gazprom has storage in Hyden and Ride Berg as well. UK storage facilities are close to critical levels, and again, that's driven by the cold weather we've seen. It's the coldest April in around 35 years, and that's seen a real unseasonable amount of incremental heating demand still here. Even today. It's quite cold in the uk and similar story across northwest Europe really, which is again, driving that additional demand, which is fed into the prices. We've also got a slow down NG at the moment. We've seen a. The Asian buying behavior in terms of restocking, starting a bit earlier, perhaps slightly burnt from what happened earlier this year in the backend of last year. But we can touch upon that a bit later on. Also, look at related fuels. Look at carbon surge towards 50 euros a ton. I think again, this time last year, carbon was around 20 euro marks, 22 Euro marks. Coal oil, were all depressed, this time last year. So there is that actually quite a lot of bullish events going on in the market at the moment. A lot more maintenance as well. Last year a lot of maintenance was canceled due to COVID. This year we're seeing extensive maintenance in Norway and on the UK continental shelf. So there's quite a lot of things. And of course the big news yesterday. Just really the sort of another bullish nail in the priceless coffin was the situation at Mont where definitely detected a leak in a pipeline. So they've now send out, will now be zero for the remainder of the month, which previously was nominated, I think 2 7, 6 gigawatt hours per day. So there's a lot going on. Yes, I could go on, but I think we'll stop there for the moment.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 4:53

Absolutely. So we are recording, late on Thursday and this happened, the Mont was on Wednesday, but yeah. Now we're warmer weather ahead. Is this gonna see prices ease maybe as we head into summer?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 5:03

Definitely. I think once the, in North Australia, I think you see a rise next week shortly. But again, they stay quite suppressed for most of May, which isn't great. But if you look at some of the long range, longer range forecasts. We're seeing a warmer than average, perhaps June and July, which hopefully would compensate for it. But I think at the moment, yes warming up temperatures would help because we would see a drop in LD Z demand, which again is high, exacerbated by COVID, and obviously more people still under work from home conditions, et cetera. But I think what we need is a bit more on the supply front as well, really. Especially from LG, which has slowed. I think it ramped up massively in April. I think 20% increase month on month, and we were close to last year's levels. But this month thus far. We've seen a slowdown for various different reasons, including I mentioned what was reported on Wednesday afternoon.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 5:50

I wanna touch on some of these issues, but later on in the pod. But there's also another aspect which you haven't mentioned, I'd like to bring in arena here that, was it last week or a couple of weeks ago we had an issue about Russia and transit capacity through Ukraine? What was going on here? Iryna?

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 6:03

Yeah, that's actually a very good question. It actually happened on 27th of April. That was the day when Ukrainian SO offered some extra capacity. On Russian border or at the Suya border point. And actually that was the first time when Ukrainian TSO was allowed to offer Interruptable capacity on Russian border. And according to EU network code regulation, the TSO is only allowed to offer interruptable capacity once the firm capacity is booked. So that's what happened back in April. All capacity for May has been booked by gas Prom and it allowed Ukrainian so to offer some interruptible capacity. And that was a big event on the market as everyone was closely watching what would happen if gas prom is going to book it or not. And the result of the auction was at zero capacity has been allocated, meaning that gas prom was not interested in booking some more capacity for May. And it is yeah, it is interesting to, to see what will happen for June.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 7:07

What do you expect for June? Do you see then the gas prom to book this interruptable capacity next month?

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 7:13

Yeah, it is highly likely that gas prom will book a firm capacity, as it usually does. And looking back into previous months as a company is usually booking that from capacity. But for Interruptable, it's a big question because we are heading into injection season and as Wayne already mentioned before, storages across Europe are heavily depleted, including the ones that from, has shared in. So it, it is a very good and interesting question to, to watch for the next months to see if Strom will be willing to transit more guests by Ukraine.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 7:50

For those listeners who are not aware of the difference between firm and interruptible capacity, what is the difference there?

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 7:55

Firm capacity is basically a guaranteed capacity. While Interruptible one, it depends on something and usually it depends on the physical flows.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 8:05

What was Gas prom doing here? Can you explain why it didn't book any of this interruptible capacity? What's the reasons behind that? We can only speculate. I know, but 'cause you are not a gas pro spokesperson. But what do you think lies behind that decision?

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 8:18

Gas Pro can choose different strategies for this injection season. One of them would be. To sell less gas on its ESP platform. And by drop in sales on ESP, it'll offset it refill of storages in Europe. Another strategy would be to send more gas by Ukraine as we had further into injection season. And we've seen, for the last months Gas Pro has been sending more gas at actually at capacity via Al and via North Stream. So the only way where the company can send more gas would be via Ukraine.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 8:55

Is there a political element to this and a little reminder from Gas Pro to say, you guys very reliant on our fuel here.

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 9:01

Yes, of course. I think with Gas Pro, it's always some geopolitical. Background and we've seen it before, so maybe yeah, maybe this time it's again some kind of strategy from gas prom to, to maybe to lift the prices artificially in Europe or maybe some other kind of strategies there.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 9:20

So a combination of economics, exploiting a tight market in Europe, but also apart geopolitics as well.

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 9:26

Yeah. Yes, for sure.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 9:27

What's your view here, Wayne? Does the EU need Ukrainian gas?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 9:30

We need Russian gas for sure.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 9:32

Yeah, I know's. Why are Ukraine? Absolutely. Yeah. It's not, yes,

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 9:35

most definitely. Yeah, I think we do. And I think it's interesting what Irina was saying there, and it's something we've all been thinking about, is what is gastros strategy behind it? Especially when you look at where their storages are. The fact they didn't take up any interruptible capacity at the last auction. It could be, and again, this is, like you said, everyone's got their own sort of theory behind this. It could be a case of wait until later into the summer season, then start the back loading injections. Or it could be a case of highlighting, like you mentioned at the start, Hey, we're important, you need our gas. And don't forget Nord Stream. Nord Stream two is 95% complete. And then the latest advice, they were saying that, yeah we should, the construction is very close to being complete dependent on certain things like the weather, et cetera, and it's in full compliance with the grants, et cetera. We could see that. One of the reasons too, so there's several strategies here or several reasons behind what Gazprom may or may not be planning over the next few months. But one thing's for sure is that they'll dictate if and when they decide to whether buy additional volumes or put additional volumes into the market and will be held hostage to that. As we saw when they didn't, when there was rumors they were gonna. Buy the additional capacity. I think the market fell 6% soon as the auction happened. As Irina said, that 6% was swiftly retraced. So it just shows where the market used these additional capacities, and I still think as prom will need to do it over this summer for sure.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 10:57

The other aspect here is there's there's an election in Germany in September, according to current polls. The greens are, are ahead. And they're not so keen on Nord Stream two. So do you think there is a danger here that should there be a government with a green chancellor that, that the whole thing could collapse?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 11:14

Wow. Yeah. But as you remember, when I and I hop back to this before when I presented for you guys inor in what seems like in eternity ago, and I think it was 2018. We were speaking about nor stream to them, the political side of it. And I still think it'll go ahead and I don't think the green party could stop that. I think even, I think a couple of weeks ago, the German energy minister said that we still need nor Stream, and I think Germany definitely needs it. So there will be opposition of course. But I still think it's, I still think it's gonna go ahead. There's been a lot of time. Into this project and we're at 95% completion with 20 or so kilometers left. So surely it's gonna go ahead and resume or commence commercial operations. But who knows when that's the point.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 11:57

I think the only certainty is that there's gonna be some sort of delay or it's certainly not gonna not on, on track. But what's the view from the Ukraine Iryna? You know about North Stream two.

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 12:06

Yeah. So in terms of Ukraine looking into short perspective for 20 20, 20 24 we've got an agreement with Gas Pro where it is, 65 BCM has to be booked or paid for in 2020 and for the rest of security is 40 bcm. So Ukraine, SO and Ukraine are secured for up to 2024. But looking into long term perspective, Ukraine would have to think about alternative ways of how to. Utilize its system and how to keep it operational because as we've seen with previously with North Stream one gastro, they worked quite a big portion of gas transit away from Ukraine and to North Stream. So probably that is something that will happen with Nor Stream do as well. And we don't have to forget about Turk Stream, which is also quite important one, and it is already diverting a big portion. Of Russian gas transit from Ukraine.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 13:04

So the launch of Turk Stream has affected some flows via the Ukraine, then Irina.

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 13:08

Yes, of course. We saw a big impact of launch of Turk Stream on Ukraine. And since it started in early 2020, we saw that volumes that Ukraine was transiting to Bulgaria, Greece, Northern Macedonia, Turkey. Everything was worded to Turk stream and Ukraine was not getting anything. And then again, early this year we saw the extension of Turk Stream onshore section, which also worded some volumes from Ukraine. And the Turk Stream and supply to Serbia was was done via Turk Stream, which is around two BCM. And then again starting from April Romania joined supplies from Turk Stream and Ukraine is not transiting gas there anymore. So this leaves only Moldova in the southern directions that receives gas while Ukraine. A big risk would be if Hungary decide decides to join supplies from Turk Stream later this year as they're already planning to have a link with Serbia. Which would allow them to get gas via Turk stream rather than Ukraine. So overall, Ukraine already lost around 15 BCM of gas transit of Russian gas transit, and in our 10 to 12 BBC m in case Hungary decides to switch to Turk Stream as well. So it's a big volume of gas that Ukraine is losing.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 14:34

Yeah, that's a sizable reduction. So obviously at the moment with a lot of LNG being redirected to Asia, Europe is more dependent on Russian supply, but what needs to happen to get some of these LNG cargoes coming back to Europe, Wayne? Do we need a sort of narrow price spread between the Japan, the JKM price and the TTF or MBP? To entice it back?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 14:58

Yes, most definitely. Because we've seen volumes start to get redirected towards Asia over recent weeks. And as I mentioned, there's a bit of a surprise here. We expected quite a large surplus of LNG into Northwest Europe this summer. And we still can see it obviously later on this summer'cause we're not gonna be seeing the level of US cancellations that we saw last summer. At the moment, you've got this strong restocking demand from Asia. You've got charter rates starting to rise again. You've got a lot of things are tightening up in terms of even hammerfest as well. I think they extended that now till March, 2022. So there's quite a lot of issues in the LNG market and I think that sort of Asia market and this earlier than usual restocking demand, and of course the onset of calling season is partly related to what happened. Earlier this year and towards the back end of last year when many players were caught out by surprise and obviously we saw the price rise to historical levels. So I think there's an element of that involved as well. But yeah, the recent upside we've seen in prices in European gas hubs. Is bringing that closer and we should start to see some redirection over the coming weeks. I say redirection, but we'll see some cargoes returning to Europe over Asia, but it's very strong demand in both basins now. Yeah it's not what we expect.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 16:14

So it's high prices in both markets, but do you expect to see that spread between them and the pri differential narrowing and to an extent where the cargoes come flowing back?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 16:23

Yeah. Once we see a bit of a slowdown up in this Asian demand then hopefully we'll see with the European hubs are rising. So we'll see that spread. Make it a lot more advantageous to send cargoes back over here. Whereas the US we're still expecting and we're still seeing cargoes arrive from the US and West Europe, probably even more so later in the year and June and July, like we saw the cancellations last year. We expect even more LNG supply from the US this year. And if you look at the feed gas numbers and obviously additional trains, et cetera. We can expect that to help facilitate the quickening of refilling of European storages.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 16:58

One of the key elements here is the subsiding of a Asian LNG demand. That's gonna be a key element. When, if I can pinpoint you, do you see it weeks away, months away, do you see it happening? Beginning of June, end of June? Rain? Can I pin you down a bit here?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 17:10

It's hard because there's a few things going on. You've actually got the Chinese and the Japanese buyers return from holidays soon, so we might see an uptick in spot demand there. We've got restrictions in South Korea on coal burn, so that's gonna incentivize more Japan. Obviously demand is a bit higher, but now probably we're gonna get an impact from COVID, especially on city gas and also in India. India's obviously gonna pair back. Its, and we've seen a couple of cargoes canceled already, so India's gonna pass demand in light of the COVID advancement there at the moment. So when you said to pinpoint, I'm hopeful of a return in the next month, hopefully things will look a bit brighter.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 17:42

So that's when prices in Europe will also start to ease or will they need to stay at that kind of level, to be attractive for those cargoes?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 17:47

Yeah, we'd like to think the prices might ease a little touch, but as you can see there they're pretty strong at the moment. We've got momentum. We've had about, I think eight up days in a row and the MVP and seven out of the last eight or nine, the ttfs. So you mentioned wrong and it's supportive. When you look at all the factors like I mentioned combined earlier, it supports. Even though it does seem quite outrageous when you take it back to last year, but this is a very different year in many aspects. And we're also seeing some sort of green shoots of recovery in terms of economic demand. And if you look at crude, which obviously is the bellwether for global demand, it's. Trying to get towards $70 compared to this time last year, it was half the price. So I think things are gonna start heating up over the next month or two. And I think in terms of the storages as well, I mean we still have the view here at Refinitiv that they were gonna be stronger injections into storage in Q3. And I think that back loading looks a lot more problem now, especially when you take a look at the spreads. So we hopeful of a little easing in the coming weeks. Especially from such highs and we could expect it. But there, there's a lot of surprises been happening in the market this last year. I was even mentioning this to someone the other day, like the Suez Canal issue. What happened in terms of in January with LNG? There's been one thing after another really at the moment. So the volatility, as I mentioned before, close to close, it's highest it's been for years. So all this is making things quite unpredictable and hard to forecast at the moment.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 19:13

Absolutely. So in terms of storage, then, Wayne, as you've mentioned several times it's a key factor here and the injection season has been delayed. Do you think that the storage will be filled by winter in time For winter?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 19:25

We expect it to be closer to fullness by the end of the injection season, but we actually expected injections, like most people, obviously the market to start a lot earlier. As I mentioned, we've had net withdrawal in many big facilities in April, and with this persistent cold weather that may continue, and also the spread to keep harping. If you look now, you're better off taking that gas outta storage now and then re-injecting, looking to inject later on when prices start to ease because we're in a really high price environment at the moment. And with these spreads with front months at the premium, then why would you start injecting into storage now? So I think price optimization or storage optimization is key as well. But yeah, I still believe we'll get filled. But if the LNG that we expect. Doesn't, and Gpro don't ramp up their imports and we have any additional issues. There's quite a lot of maintenance this summer that could be extended or we could foresee more demand than we expect once we start coming out of these COVID restrictions, which looking like more possible. More so in the UK first and then a bit more so in Europe later on in the year. So we would expect it to be close to fullness. But if you look at the prices now. This risk premium that's now baked into these prices tell you the market isn't so sure. So yeah.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 20:35

What would you think in terms of going for what, is there, a greater likelihood that we'll stay at this level for longer? Or is it, are we likely to see easing by, mid-June?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 20:44

I'm hopeful that if we come back in, speak to you in the month time, that prices would be a bit lower. Yeah. Telling you things have got a lot better in terms of supply and the demand. Obviously, we don't normally talk about. Demand of from heating going into it's may and I'm, wearing jackets out and it's cold in the morning at one degrees this morning. So we need to see that will change the dynamic slightly as will a sort of an increase in LNG flu into Northwest Europe, which can only help and. Like I said, it was another nail in the coffin in terms of anyone who was bearish, what happened at Montis. So there's just another factor.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 21:20

Absolutely. I think yesterday I looked out the window and it was snowing here in, in Oslo, and, so that's happening in May, which is, it's, is not so usual. But looking out to the winter, we've had, the cold winter in Asia was a key driver six months ago. Is this, is there is also added concern that this could happen again?

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 21:38

Definitely. We saw it happen and I think that's what I mentioned touched upon earlier. I think there's a little bit of the sort of nervousness from players in the Asia market now concerned that they don't wanna repeat of last year. No one wants to pay them prices, no one expected them prices. And that we saw with the confluence of events. So I think an element of what we're seeing now is definitely attributed to that. So I think. With that in mind, if a lot more participants are happier with their storages being filled a lot earlier and we get closer to the winter than I imagine that. That we might not foresee such problems, but I can't control the weather. Richard,

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 22:14

you can control many things, Wayne, but the weather's not one of them. Unfor. I can't control the weather unfortunately. But you touched on one aspect also, which I want to just to ask you about. Just finally, I dunno whether it seems, doesn't seem quite right to talk about post COVID when, see, when we see what's happening in India and in other parts of the world, but in certain parts of Europe, certainly with the vaccination drive and we can see it light at the end of the tunnel. What's your view here on demand going forward? If I can both ask you, Wayne, and then you Iryna

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 22:41

we saw, I mean if you look through what happened in this heating season, I think European gas demand was up about five, 6% year on year. And again, that's attributed to the colder conditions and also the exacerbated by people more people being in their domestic residents as well as, other big, large spaces that don't require the heating side of it. But I think. Industrial demand will start to pick up. And we're already seeing that now. I've seen some countries now where demand is picking up and you gotta remember last year when we had some of the more draconian restrictions, especially in countries like Italy, a lot of the heavy manufacturing was curtailed. That's not the case now. So we are seeing more demand and as you rightly pointed out, once we start moving a bit more, once the sort of mobility side of things starts to improve, I think we will see that demand start to increase. And again, that can be another bullish risk if we're in a certain situation like we are now with, certain market conditions dictating what we're seeing in terms of tightness. And I haven't touched on renewables as well. They've been pretty weak this year as well, which has supported even stronger use of gas this year.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 23:42

Yeah, absolutely. And what's your view here, Irina, and then the post COVID outlook for gas demand?

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 23:47

Yeah I would have to agree here with Wayne that as life is getting back to normal we would probably see higher demand coming from industrial sector as production is getting back to normal. And also people are starting slowly but still returning back to offices. Yeah, we would probably see a li life getting back to normal.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 24:07

That's good to hear. I think if I were to summarize what you guys have been saying, if we compare 2021 or certainly the month so far compared to the same period last year it's chalk and cheese really, I think. So it's to coin a phrase. So guys, thanks very much for being on the Mont Weekly podcast. Look forward to inviting you back and and discussing the outlook ahead of the winter possibly as well once we get into Q3 at some stage.

Wayne Bryan, Director, European Gas Research, Refinitiv: 24:29

Yes. Thank you Richard. It's always nice to come and speak to you guys and you actually yeah. Took the word as right my mouth there. It's a complete contrast. Chalk and cheese when looking at summer 20 to summer 21. Yeah. Volatility and uncertainty to continue right until we fill theses. So yeah. Hopefully when we speak again, things will be different not only in the gas world, but also in the normal world. Yeah, here's to that.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 24:54

Thank you Wayne. And thank you Iryna.

Iryna Sereda, Gas Analyst at Refinitiv: 24:55

Thank you so much, Richard. Thank you.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief Europe, Montel: 24:58

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