Germany fills gas storage

Germany looks set to meet its gas storage target well ahead of winter, and some are optimistic the country can muddle through peak demand when the weather turns cold. But others fear sharp drawdowns from November could result in shortages – and price volatility - particularly if Russia were to permanently halt flows through the Nord Stream pipeline. Listen to a discussion on how the country’s central buyer, the Trading Hub Europe, could bring volumes to the market and the impact on prices.

Host: Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel
Guests: Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue
                  Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group
                

Transcript

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 0:07

Hello listeners and welcome to the Montel Weekly Podcast, bring You Energy Matters in an informal setting. This episode returns to gas market developments. We've seen some dramatic price movements in recent weeks with prices soaring to almost 350 euros, but they've since fallen back to a mere 230 or 240 euros per megawatt hour. Prices tumbled despite Russia. Halting flows on Nord Stream one, as well as cutting off supplies to NG. Increased storage could be a factor pressuring prices. But are we outta the woods yet? Joining me, Richard Sverrisson on today's pod to talk about all things gas is Henning Gloystein of Eurasia. Welcome back Henning.

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 0:46

Hi, Richard. Thank you

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 0:47

and Bjørn Inge Vik of Volue. And welcome to you too.

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 0:50

Thanks for having me.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 0:52

I'd like to start by talking about these dramatic price movements. Bjørn Inge could you tell us what, what's going on? What why did they suddenly rise so dramatically last week and then the next week? They tumbled quite seriously.

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 1:05

Yeah, they they rose. It it's been the problem of the gradually diminishing Nord stream one flows. And we had some, also some big problems on the Norwegian Continental Shelf. So reduced outputs, several fields and processing plants went out. I think just market went a bit crazy there. And but of course we've seen this week quite a dramatic correction as well. And yeah, we shouldn't be surprised. There's a lot of volatility these days because we're really in uncharted territory and there's no, it's not firm anchoring our prices anymore, anywhere. So the fundamentals so easy to see.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 1:38

Absolutely. So if I can just ask you about these Norwegian outages, is this because, the system in Norway is pumping gas at full throttle, so that, that system is under pressure, so these outages are more likely to happen? Or is it just a, is it just something natural for the time of year?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 1:54

I think it's natural. It, that could play a part 'cause they're really pulling the limiter. But I think these outages just happen from time to time and I don't suspect we can, we'll. We'll have long lasting problems and I think Norwegian production will come back up again and deliver very strong output for the rest of the year.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 2:11

So we've sunk, we've fallen to about, 230, 240 euros, a megawatt hour. Bjørn Inge. Do you expect to stay at this or do you expect to see more volatility in the weeks to come?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 2:21

Oh, more volatility for sure. We're not done with the volatility yeah. Embrace yourself.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 2:27

Absolutely. Henning, if I can turn to you what do you make of these dramatic price movements?

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 2:32

Bjørn Inge put it well there with the uncharted territory. We've never really been in a situation where the biggest single pipeline into Europe is goes on off goes down. We, and we have no idea where they'll come back on September two, as the Russians currently say. We had no idea until about 10 days ago that it would go off again. And it's a big piece of infrastructure and that gas is there or not there. And since we don't know, that means the prices go up and down pretty dramatically. And pretty much nobody has an idea. Of how to cope with this apart from buying as much gas that's non Russian as possible and putting it into storage and hamstering it.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 3:06

Absolutely. If, if we look at Germany, Henning, Germany has decided to empower the gas hub to buy as much gas as possible and put it into storage. What's the idea here? What's the plan?

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 3:19

Yeah, it's, this is a feisty idea. The German government has clearly decided that this winter it security of supply is a priority over price. So they're saying it doesn't matter how much it'll cost, we need to get those storage sites to 95% on November 1st. It's even a law. Which is very counter normal market behavior because normally at this time of the year you should be buying gas fairly cheaply so that you can sell it more expensive in the winter. That's what the price curve is there for now, it's all inside out. And the normal price signal at the moment would be to sell outta storage, but the law says you need to buy storage and in order. And so basically the market doesn't work as it should be doing at the moment, and that means that the government has gone in and said. You, the trading hub Europe and has have the mandate now to buy gas at whatever the price is because you must fill the storage sites by November 1st. And markets players have noticed this. And they know that the demand in Germany is, has gone ballistic and prices have reacted accordingly.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 4:18

So do you think that's a reason for the dry the rise last week?

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 4:21

It's not the only reason, I think the main reason is that was the news North Stream one going off again. But the knowledge that Germany is buying gas strategically and putting it into storage on a government mandate is definitely contributing to the prices. Yes,

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 4:34

absolutely. What do you think Bjørn Inge?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 4:35

Yeah. That's for sure. It's a natural behavior of the storage and yeah we saw clearly, not so much any longer, but earlier in the summer we saw a backwardation with winter prices being cheaper than summer prices, and that was clearly an effect of these storage mandates. So it's definitely distorting the market or has been. Yeah.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 4:53

So when, so where are we now? We're about 85% storage full in, in Germany.

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 4:58

Yes, that's correct.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 4:59

Yeah. Bjørn Inge And when would you expect to reach this 90%?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 5:03

Storage filling has come much better than expected. It hasn't come for free. We've, this is, why we've had this very high prices but we're already at 85. Something like that, which means that we are that was the target for 1st of October for German storages. And I think with the current pace of injections we'll see the 95% target for 1st of November being reached, likely ahead of time. Things are looking actually quite comfortable there on the storage side.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 5:32

And what about in the rest of Europe?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 5:34

Also good. I think we reached we, we reached 80% average storage filling now. So that's basically, that was the target for 1st of November. So it's already there. I would say better than expected. And part of the reason the reason Europe has been able to fill storage is even though we've lost a lot of Russian gas is because we've had heavy amounts of LNG coming in. Obviously Europe is the premier destination of, for LNG in the world now with these high prices. So a lot of LNG coming in steadily through last winter and this spring and this summer. But we've also had fortunately or unfortunately, a lot of demand reductions or destruction and, those two factors combined actually have helped Europe to fill their storages. And I would say that's good news.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 6:22

Yep. That's good news Ahead of the winter for sure. But when we get to the winter, how will that gas be sold, Henning? Will the Trading Hub Europe sell it on the spot market? Will it sell it forward? How does it work? You've got a government agency basically acting as a trader.

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 6:39

Yeah, that's the awkward situation that's occurred now because no one had a long-term plan for this. This wasn't on the books until very recently, it's a little bit unclear. We know that the Trading of Europe is buying this and it's called the strategic storage and it's making it available in the market probably. So it'll probably be sold off commercially during the winter when demand is there. But it is a very unnatural situation. You first have government mandated purchases and you have commercial sales in winter and this contributes to price volatility because you don't really know how this is going and it's, and Trading Hub Europe is not the only outfit that is. Buying strategic gas. A Juniper by all accounts is doing the same thing since they were part nationalized. So they have a government mandate as well. And other utilities also have agreements with the German government to use their trading desks to buy gas to put into storage. So it's a very muddy and difficult, tricky situation that nobody really fully understands how it's gonna roll out over winter. The only positive part is here indeed, as Binger just said, is this has. It contributed quite heavily to, to allowing storage sites to be pretty full. So it's, this is why we said last week, we actually think Germany will get through muddle through this winter without level three emergency rationing. Unless there's massive unplanned outages, but from the LNG supply chain or from Norway.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 7:54

If we return to the winter Henning how do you see it happening? Will the. Will this gas be sold to the market at a loss? Will it be partially subsidized? Will they be looking to make money on it?

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 8:05

No, I think this'll be almost certainly be sold at a loss unless prices go even further. But then Okay. Then the mandate is also during the winter to keep buying ba gas to keep the storage sites full, so then there'll be a double loss. I don't think at this stage, trading of Europe or the government in Germany is particularly fussed about how they reap. Call back the money of these strategic purchases. And that's what I meant when I said the German government, clearly for this winter, is prioritizing security of supply over price.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 8:32

Absolutely. What's your view here, Bjørn Inge? This seems to be very as Henning says, a very tricky situation. A very kind muddled picture for market participants who are used to, one company trading with another. And it's the now, the, now the central counterparty is the government in effect.

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 8:47

It's it's a tricky situation and it's a new situation and that's probably right what tending says that they didn't have a long-term plan for this. And yeah, just, I just hope that we won't see too much market distortion because of this now in the withdrawal season. And yeah, there, there's storage targets also. Next there of course, and in February I think Germany wants to have at least 40% filling rate, but that's not. Very different from the two previous years. That in itself shouldn't hopefully not be the reason for any big market distortions. But yeah, we'll just see how they. They will probably end up selling a lot. A lot of the loss selling says

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 9:27

so we're bracing ourselves for increased volatility now in the coming weeks. But once the withdrawal season starts in earnest, when it gets cold when there's increased demand do you expect that to be equally as much volatility?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 9:41

Yes, I would. Yes. Why not? I would say, in this situation, and there will be more news about Russian gas and other things could pop up and we could have a, if there's cold bells, this could have a big effect and this already stretched market. I would say the volatility is easier to stay, but, but yeah, I must say I'm more optimistic now than I was earlier in the summer or in spring with these when we have reached these storage targets already. So it's

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 10:07

yeah, no, that's that, that's good to hear. At least there is some optimism out there. Henning, this week we've seen Russia sign of gas deal with Hungary. But cut off to, to eng g fully cut off all supplies. And also halt flows on Nord Stream one. What are your expectations in terms of Nord Stream one?

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 10:26

So the short answer is we don't really know, and that's part of the problem. A big part of the problem overall. However, so we, it's possible that Nord Stream one stays off because Russia has realized that Germany has got its storage sites full. They're still supplying sort of their semi. Allies in Europe Hungary, and maybe not allies, but they're not quite as hostile as the rest of the eu. With gas, they also, blue stream to Turkey is still happening. They're still getting revenue at very high prices there. And they are inflicting economic pain where they want to inflict economic pain and that at the moment seems to be their sting point is North Stream one and Germany and be, because via that entry point into the eu, you can inflict. Pain on the rest of the EU because Germany has nine land borders with you are actually extending that pain right to the Netherlands, to France and to Austria. And that seems to be their policy. And that means that, if we really have no idea whether it's gonna come back on September 2nd. And it really isn't a problem with the turbines. We know the turbines are, they're sealed, the paperwork is done. So it's just a matter of politics and that we. Don't really know because we're not in Putin's head.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 11:29

No, exactly. What's your, what do you think here? Bjørn Inge? Do you expect it to come back on the 2nd of September?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 11:34

Yeah, I would. My hunch is that it's comes back either at 20% or perhaps lower, like 10% or something like that. So it's still like some volumes, but that it can, that can still be played around with if it cuts off completely, then that's off the table and we, Europe knows that it's gone forever, most likely. But it's hard to say and but yeah, even if Nord Stream one doesn't come back I think Europe can still, or Germany can still keep injecting now. I'm looking at the net injection numbers and they will continue to go up even if Nord Stream one doesn't come back. But, yeah, it's it's hard to know.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 12:09

Absolutely. We're not as, as he said, we're not in Putin's heads. We dunno what's happening inside the Kremlin, which makes it very difficult to, to second guess this. But we've had, we've talked about previously on, on the pod about the fact that they may be forced to flow the gas because of economic reasons in terms of the fields in Siberia. And last week, the, Tobi as Federico discussed the fact that potentially, there could be a plan to flood the market come February, turn the gas on fully in order to, to just for as much economic damage by sinking the price. Is this a likely scenario in your view? Henning.

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 12:42

it's funny you mentioned that because we actually published Ireg group and I, I also did published a note what would happen if Russia flooded the European market with gas, and we published it on the day that Nord Stream one got cut in June Uhhuh, so that didn't go down very well. Yeah. But it is, yeah, I mean it's an option. If Russia decides. To either maybe super peace, fire, some form of a ceasefire at some point they might decide to raise gas flows, but we really don't see that as a likely outcome at the moment. But at some point next year might, it might happen. And the best way to, to sting the US L and g industry is indeed to raise gas output and. Crash that price. And then a lot of fancy hopes in the United States look start looking a bit silly and long-term contracts maybe that were signed in the meantime. So that is an, it's not outside the realm of possibility, but so far we've seen very little sign of Russia doing that. But never say never.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 13:30

Exactly. What do you think Bjørn Inge is it is a likely scenario?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 13:34

It's an interesting speculation. Yeah. And that's a good argument with the Henning says it can hurt the American LNG industry and, and create havoc with these massive price fluctuations or price drop. You will see then, of course but but in some ways it would also be good for Europe if they do it. Yeah, I'm not really sure what to think about that. Theory, let's say. We'll just have to see.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 13:54

But another factor that also we talked about last week is the demand destruction and have you in Europe, what do you think Ning where has this been happening and is it likely to continue to, are we likely to continue to see closures of large industrial units?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 14:09

Yeah, unfortunately, I think so. We've maybe, we'll only see in the beginning, I think, I looked at the numbers and it seems like German Q1 demand was down 10%, and in Q2 German demand was down 20%. And that's from a lower absolute level of course, in Q2. But demand is down significantly and it's it's all over the place. Obviously there's no gas running in the power sector if they, if there is any other alternatives. But, but it's industry is has been shutting down. In particular, it's been challenging for the fertilizer and and the aluminum metals industry. Their margins are very negative. And you, you can't, some of these industries, you can't just snap your fingers and turn the, turn them back on again either. So I think we'll see more of industry cutting. And also the residentials. Households are saving gas, of course, a lot, and everybody's contributing. And in Germany, they will increase households will see increased prices now from first to October. So that will even. Drive savings a little bit more? I think so. So yes. And but as I said, this is absolutely crucial now and there's a reason why Europe has managed to fill storages at the moment.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 15:22

What's what do you think Henning what's your view on, on, on under demand destruction and the outlook for the coming months?

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 15:27

So I've actually spent quite a bit of time with German industrials over the last couple of weeks, and they it's a fairly unified picture. We've got a clear picture. They, we seem to have view now that about 50% of demand destruction long term, can is permanent. So of the 20% that they're targeting to reduce output on the industrial side at the moment, they reckon about half of that they can permanently reduce by just investing into efficiency. This is largely big industrial companies that have cash and they can invest into reducing consumption. Structurally, the end of the remaining half f 25% is just short term shock. It just said, just shut down stuff. And that will come at the cost of GDP drops, probably a recession. And the other 25% would be the sort of stuff that you can drive down for a year or maybe six months or up to a year. But then you really need to have to bring it back up again. So it's a mixed picture. But the I think we're gonna see fairly. Long term and permanent demand destruction coming out of this because a lot of companies are investing quite heavily to just for instance, rip out gas heaters and invest into efficiency and alternative fuels. So the outlook there is maybe, not that optimistic than anything, for the next six months? No, we're definitely think, probably Germany's already in a recession and if that's the case now, and Binga said retail prices will go up on October 1st. Industrial prices will remain high. And that means Q4 and Q1? Probably will almost certainly, I think will be a contraction.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 16:54

In with these elevated prices, you increase the cost of living crisis and people, there will be increased pressure on politicians and on policy makers to to do something. We've already seen noises coming from Germany and from the commission that the current market design is not fit for purpose. What do you see? Maybe it's more related to power markets, but I think it also affects the gas market. What do you see in terms of market intervention coming forward? There, there's very little clarity and details at the moment, Bjørn Inge, but do you expect changes to be made and what kind of changes?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 17:27

Yeah, I expect changes to be made that there's so much dissatisfaction now with the current states and the high prices and people and politicians don't understand why, why a small amount of gas? If a small amount of gas is needed in the power sector, then all the power prices is is reflected in the gas cost. And it's just been growing the call to for a change here. Germany has been reluctant to do anything, but now they're also, in for a reform there and they want to, yeah the thing is to decouple gas from power basically, and there's several ways to do it. In Spain, they already did it. They put a cap on the gas price as seen in the power sector. But you could do that, or, I just hope they don't do anything too radical. The marginal pricing system in the power sector has been serving as well for decades now, and it's really a very efficient. Way to manage the power system under the normal circumstances. And if the, they just have to be they probably want to do an emergency intervention and they wanna do it quickly, but they should also really be careful to avoid unintended consequences such that will actually, you know. Increase gas demand, for example, if you artificially lower the gas prices or decouple the market. But they will for sure take action. It's unavoidable now, I think, at this stage.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 18:47

Yeah. And the marginal pricing model seems to have come under a lot of criticism, a lot of pressure in, in recent weeks. Yeah, what do you expect Henning, do you think, that Germany, for example, could follow the Spanish example. Could it, maybe in some sense red redistribute some of the wind pool profits that are being earned by renewables generators.

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 19:08

Yeah, a lot of tricky things there. I think the crucial message there is, and I totally agree, is that. The German government has now also come around and said, okay, we need to do something. And they were very reluctant until very recently, but they're gonna do something about it. They are, I'm fairly certain gonna try and somehow decouple the renewable market from the gas market or a fossil fuel power market. But there is no clear solution yet. Now on, in terms of windfall taxes, Germany has a bit of a tricky situation because it doesn't have big oil and gas companies that it could tax. As is the case in Britain. But the only windfall you can do is indeed tax renewable guys, but of course that sends a terrible signal because you actually want to incentivize investment into renewables to reduce dependency on gas. So taxing them is a bit is, and it's also actually fairly unpopular in Germany at the moment, but it might be the only way out because they, the German government, like every other government in Europe at the moment, desperately needs revenues. To somehow support households and maybe small industries. And so they need to tax companies that are accidentally or intentionally profiteering from this situation. And in Germany that might actually be the renewable industry. So yeah, I, it's possible that'll happen.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 20:16

But there is a case, isn't that because they, they have, if they're unhedged producers of renewable energy, they're making bumper profits. With power prices at sort of 5, 6, 700 euros per megawatt hour with, when you have zero marginal cost that's a. Phenomenal profit margin.

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 20:30

Yeah. I wish I had a wind park and a solar park at the moment. It would be fantastic.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 20:35

Yeah, exactly.

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 20:35

And I even pay some tax.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 20:37

Yeah. But in, in Norway, do you expect the government to, to announce any any changes to the market design Bjørn Inge? There's a lot of pressure more on, on the power price in a way. But when it comes to the gas or oil sector what, are there any likely changes ahead?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 20:52

No, I think. I think not, there's more potential for the climate for exploring and increasing gas production in particular has improved. And so we'll probably see in the short term the next few years better outlook than we previously expected. But, but yeah, I don't see any big changes in the gas sector or in the power sector. What's been talked about in Norway is to limit power export to to the continent. But that will only happen in the event that there's a security of supply issue here with very low hydro levels. And I don't think we'll get there. And it's it doesn't fit with the free market system that we've had in Europe. I don't see any big changes really.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 21:32

Okay, fine. I'd just like to round off by talking a little bit, touching upon the, about LNG and I think and the, and potential supply to Europe. I. If you have very high demand in Asia, would that limit the supply coming to Europe Henning?

Henning Gloystein, Director - Energy, Climate and Resources, Eurasia Group: 21:46

At current prices, if you've got gas, you'll send it to Europe. The, I think the issue is not that it's gonna be limited to coming to Europe. If demand in China, Japan, South Korea goes through the roof. We've already seen more fallout and collateral damage, as you might call it is that emerging markets are being squeezed out of LNG supply. So we've seen that Pakistan hasn't managed to attract a single cargo for many months now, although it actually had a contractual agreement to receive LNG, but it didn't come because the fee for not delivering was lower than the. Revenue from delivering into the spot market into Europe. So I think the damage that, that is happening to the global LNG market here is in emerging markets like South Southeast Asia. First of all because they're not getting the LNG that they want to right now, but it also is really scaring any investment into new LNG import facilities. If you sit, for instance in Thailand right now and you are wondering whether to buy an. Develop an LNG import facility and you look at the market, I think you're gonna start crying and saying, no, thank you. And I think this is really destructive for the LNG industry. They, they enjoy sky high profits at the moment, but for emerging market demand, this is really not good.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 22:54

Yeah. Sounds very catastrophic almost. Bjørn Inge, you what's your view on, for example, will Europe or companies in Europe manage to, to sign more LNG deals with Qatar or us, or are we maxing that out at the moment?

Bjørn Inge Vik, Gas Analyst, Volue: 23:07

Yeah we've had been signing several deals now lately and and the new floating import units that will come in Germany and in Netherlands they are they'll be fully utilized. So I think yeah Europe will get the LNG they want. But it comes at a price of course. And as I said, as ING says, yeah Asian demand can go up. But I think in. Yeah, I see Europe as the premier destination for LNG going forward. And yeah, it's one of the, it's the big substitute for Russian gas and it's good that we're we'll be able to get more of it. And it will also when Germany gets their LNG and also more LNG import passed in Netherlands, we'll see the spreads in the gas market that has been developing this spring. Go back in again. UK, France, Spain has been enjoying slightly or a bit cheaper prices now than Germany, for example this summer. And but that's probably gonna be more closer together again going forward.

Richard Sverrisson, Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 24:05

Gentlemen, there, there are some rays of sunshine, but not many. But thank you very much for joining the Montel weekly podcast. So listeners, you can now follow the podcast on our own Twitter account, aply named the Montel Weekly podcast. Please direct message. Any suggestions, questions, or let us know if you think you have a good idea for a guest on the show, you can also send us an email to podcast@montelnews.com. Lastly, remember to keep up to date with all that's happening in energy markets on Montel News. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts from. Thank you and goodbye.