Trump 2.0 pivots to gas

In his first hours back in office, US president Donald Trump issued a series of sweeping executive orders designed to prioritise fossil fuels, dismantle environmental policies and expand American energy dominance. From withdrawing from the Paris agreement to resuming LNG export permits and halting offshore wind projects, Trump’s agenda marks a dramatic pivot from the previous administration.

This week’s Montel Weekly Podcast delves into the consequences of these policy shifts on global energy markets, renewables and climate goals. Are Europe’s LNG needs creating new dependencies? How will domestic opposition shape the future of US energy?

Host Richard Sverrisson is joined by Montel’s Andres Cala and energy analyst Henning Gloystein to break down these developments. They discuss the challenges for renewables, the strategic importance of US LNG, and whether Trump’s “drill, baby, drill” strategy will deliver on its promises.

Host: Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel.
Guests: Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group
Andres Cala - LNG Correspondent, Montel News

Podcast editor: Bled Maliqi

Transcript

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 0:06

Hello listeners and welcome to the Montel Weekly podcast where we bring the latest news, issues and changes happening in the energy sector. We are recording this episode the morning after Donald Trump was inaugurated for a second term as US President. Within hours, he issued sweeping orders, aimed at boosting oil and gas production, rolling back climate policies, and reshaping the energy landscape. There's probably much more to come, but we'll leave it at there for now. Joining me to unpack these developments are Henning Gloystein, our old friend of Eurasia Group, and Montel's, LNG, correspondent Andres Cala. They will provide us with insights into the global gas market implications, as well as other issues that need to be discussed here going forward that could impact the global energy sector and specifically the renewables markets. Now I'd like Andres? Can you help us to set the scene and let's maybe start with the national energy emergency that Trump declared. What's the significance of this and how does it set the tone for the administration's energy priorities?

Andres Cala - LNG Correspondent, Montel News: 1:14

If I may, Richard Trump's energy emergency declaration and other executive orders, as well as the compa the statements he made. During press conferences, as he was signing the orders, I outlined his energy vision emphasizing how he seeks to leverage US energy resources to, in essence, reshape global energy markets. He looked at the LNG Pause declared in the energy emergency you mentioned earlier to boost fossil fuel output. He withdrew the US from the Paris Accord. Reiterated, he wants EU to buy more us LNG and oil to avoid tariffs. He said little about Russia, other than some rare personal criticism of Vladimir Putin saying it was destroying Russia by not making a deal. And we'll see what that means when they need, as both have said, they're willing to do but most, re most of what he said is a re reiteration un expected policies he was very bullish about his intention to drive you as interest forward using all available means, including terrorists, energy in the military, of course. But what can we expect? We can expect a lot of for Europe especially, we can expect a lot of negotiations around l and g. Which inevitably will, would mean or implies sanctions on Russian LNG in order to make room for us LNG. That in itself will be shape global energy markets, though they'll accommodate obviously Europe will see, will have to replace cheaper supplies from Russia with more expensive US supplies, so that would also have an impact. There'll be also negotiations around Russia and the US around LNG. The US intends to increase its market share at the expense of Russia, but Putin is also keen on increasing Russia's share. So there'll be a lot of diplomacy around sanctions globally. And also a lot of discussions and geopolitics around pipelines between Russia and China, Russia and Iran, between Russia and Turkey and Europe, Israel and the Mediterranean, central Asia, and which will involve Russia inevitably, of course. And there'll be more geopolitical terminal perhaps around the Panama Canal, perhaps around Iran and the allies, namely the hoots. And of course there'll be China's response to Trump's attempt to shape global geopolitics, which will be critical as well, not only around Taiwan.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 3:38

Excellent. Andres, as you said, and as I mentioned in my intro it's still very early days and it's interesting what he admitted to say as well as what he did say so, or, I think that's very interesting. But he, if I could turn to you, so let's start with the with the declaration of the withdrawal from the Paris Agreement. It wasn't, it was quite predictable in many ways. What, how does this affect the US as a global energy leader?

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 4:01

As so it affects it as a global climate leader. Massively. They're not, they're gonna send a notional delegation to Brazil to COP 30 this year. They will still send one because the exit actually only becomes effective as of next year. But they, the US will not be a. In a leadership position on climate politics, but its position as a global energy leader is in place and the emergency, the national energy emergency that Trump to clever on his, but pretty much one of his first things he did when, once he was in, after he was inaugurated. Will allow the United States to ramp up oil and gas production. I think there's very little doubt that the United States will hit 14 million barrels per day, include oil production this year. They'll also expand gas production and ex and oil and gas exports. That's declared policy. And we have to take them seriously on this. They will do this. And as what Andreas just mentioned on the section side, this is true but there's a little caveat here I wouldn't mind highlighting because. Indeed the, for to make space for US energy, the EU would probably have to, displace some other gas and Russian energy would be an option here. But as Andreas said that would require. Some form sanctions. I don't actually think that you will initially impose sanctions on Russian energy because you need support from all 27 EU members, which there currently isn't is, but there's a work around this on this and the fact that the US composed, imposed sanctions on US Russian energy exports, which then the Europeans have to abide by if they are tight enough. And then the Europeans don't have to impose those sanctions themselves. And the net result is the same thing. So what I would look out for here is if the negotiations between Russia, Ukraine, and of course the United States and Trump don't go well, that immediately that the US puts sanctions on Russian LNG supplies to anywhere. And then that would affect Europe.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 5:44

And how about, another aspect was the suspension of offshore wind leasing and the lifting of the arctic drain bans. What kind of impact is that gonna have? And we've already seen a huge impact on one Danish company, Ørsted in particular.

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 5:56

Offshore wind in particular is the biggest loser for the United States than the energy sector. Oil and gas will be drilled more. The nuclear sector will probably receive some revival as well because incoming. Energy sector. Chris Wright, he's most known for being an oil and gas, a shale pioneer with his company, Liberty Energy that he founded. But he's also he's also started a lot of companies beyond oil and gas, including in the nuclear sector. And he's a, an avid supporter of conventional nuclear power and of small, moderate reactors. So he'll push that solid as well. Like you say, offshore wind is the big loser here, onshore, wind and solar. I think we'll still go ahead. We need to keep in mind that nowhere on earth has access to so much capital as the United States. So if you're in the business of expanding electricity supply that's needed as part of electrification of many processes, but also of course the digital and the AI boom you will be looking for the cheapest form of electricity. That is, if you have a clear. Just capitalist investor mind. On hat on is renewable electricity, especially on an onshore wind and solar offshore wind? Of course the issue is it's so big that you actually need really big projects. You need government approval licenses and tenders as you've seen. And those are the ones that Trump has said he wants to throw. He's, in fact, we already thrown out on the window, and so anyone who was planning to build offshore wind parks in the United States will probably have to replan now.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 7:14

Yeah. And, but that's the, in a way, the beauty of onshore wind and solar. These are pure merchant projects. So you don't need any form of gob a subsidy or approval to build. And we've seen in con in states such as California and Texas, there's been a huge boom in the renewable sheet, and it is. The cheapest form of electricity for sure. Honey, how much you mentioned it's 14 what million barrels of oil production a year. Is that per day? Yeah, I think that's okay. Per day. Sorry. Yeah. And that's absolutely enormous. So it is the world's biggest oil producer. How much room is there to grow?

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 7:51

Yeah. We have to keep in mind that the US already produces 13 and a half million barrels per day, which is also absolutely enormous. No other country has ever produced before, including the United States. They haven't been this high, and this happened under Biden, the greenest president in US History as he declared himself. Clearly it's not just who sits in the White House. It's quite interesting the the US oil and gas industry has had. A record four years running. They have made unbelievable amount of money. They, and they've invested. They were already investing under Biden, but as it became clearer that Trump might become president, and then of course the elections happen and he did become president. That is, by now. A month and or two away in the past already. So the oil and gas industry has been putting money in place already in anticipation of Trump's policies because we, when it needs to keep in mind that industry like this, they're forward thinking. And when you have certainty about something, you can place money. So the moment Donald Trump won the election. And he won it decisively. He won all the both houses. He won the popular vote. So he we know, we already knew that he would, unleash his permitting reform. His drill, baby drill policies that we've just already seen now with executive orders, that these are gonna happen. And the moment we knew that a shale executive will come to be to the energy secretary and people run the Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, that. That are from Trump's inner circle, we knew that oil and gas production would be a good investment. And that means they started to already place their bets. And of course, now we have absolute confirmation everyone else would do this. I think the seeds already sown for an increase of, half a million barrels per day over at some point this year, towards 14 million ballots per day. And depending on, of course, what happens to global markets and the economy, this could go as high as 15 million barrels per day next year. I mean, much beyond that, I think you really do get to towards limits. But this is very possible whether one likes it or not. I think it's it's a reality we have to plan for.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 9:47

And this could the dynamic here in global markets could be that prices will come down.

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 9:52

Yeah. We're bearish oil a Euro group. We think at the moment we saw the run for Brent prices up to $80. There were good reasons for that. Biden, the outgoing presidency put new sanctions on Russia that takes out all. From the market. The global loan markets are also expecting more Iranian sanctions. So they'll take all off the market. Again, that raises the price. And this might actually be willing a willing policy by Trump these he comes, look, when I came to Power oil was cost$80 per barrel within a quarter to I brought the price down. American Oil in gas drilling helped bring prices down. We impose new sanctions on. On Iran and he can spin, turn this around to spin it into a positive story that he helped resolve. And I think it's feasible. It's very feasible. And so we think there's a very strong likelihood of brand crew prices going first to 70, then maybe $60 at some point within the next six months. And to be fair, if you're sitting in Japan, China, or in Europe, that is not entirely bad news. A little bit of cheaper energy would would probably become quite handy, especially in those big import regions that Europe and Northeast Asia are.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 10:52

But if you're sitting in the Gulf or in Riyadh, then maybe you may feel a little bit differently and

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 10:56

then you might be terrified. Yes.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 10:58

Exactly. So there, there could be a little crash course with the o like plus countries. Yeah. But Andres, if I can ask you now, in terms of the gas, there's obviously gonna be a big boost in gas production. Key will be keeping gas, natural gas prices low in the us, but also being able to export quantities to Europe. So what are the implications of this? Are we expecting next year or this year already a flood of gas from the US to Europe? What we, what are you hearing in the market?

Andres Cala - LNG Correspondent, Montel News: 11:29

No, there won't be a fundamental immediate impact just because it's not it's not feasible on the industrial side. On the engineering side, we'll have the projects that were already aligned in line to be. Developed anyway. So the US will double-edged production by the end of the LNG production by the end of the decade. And that will remain in place, so to speak. What Trump will do will just secure the we'll, so to speak, the next wave of LNG projects in the us. And sure it's important for the market because it gives global markets that reliability that. Us, LNG will continue to provide that what least under his vision, cheap energy. And of course this will have huge exp implications not only in Europe, but mainly actually in Asia. Of course. Where most of the gas is going. If indeed gas, more gas is produced, there are more gas exports. That's not to mention that of course, Russia will insist on exporting its gas despite sector. But whatever happens with Russia, it would see more production, will see prices drop and we already. Anticipate that, and that means more demand. There will be increased demand in Asia for LNG even if Europe accommodates in the process. So yeah, it will have an immediate effect. Not in production, not in US output, but just in reliability that you can go to gas, you can go to LNG, but of course there are so many other factors, fundamental factors, all that will also. Are way on this and again, the pipeline issues and mainly how Russia how su successful Russia is in distributing through pipelines. It's what it's not exploring to Europe right now that will also have implications on global us, on global gas markets.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 13:11

Isn't Henning, isn't there a danger here? Or, a situation at least where we swap a dependence on one big producer of fossil fuels to another, and that the United States can have Europe, maybe Germany in particular, over a bit of a barrel. Say you buy our LNG or we slap, 50% tariff on all your products, all your car, your cars or EVs or whatever. So isn't that a bit of a concern here, that there's, that there not gonna be no reliance on us and NG and gas?

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 13:42

Absolutely. That's already what's happening. The eu unspoken public offer to buy more us LNG is to avoid tariffs. It's the only main reason, otherwise, they just let companies do whatever they wanna do. So there's no doubt about it. And Andres mentioned before it's, us LNG is super cheap in terms of what's available if you wanna buy spot cargo now. So in the foreseeable future, if you wanna buy the cheapest form of marginally. Purchase gas to meet short term demand. US LNG is the source Henry hub plus a bit of liquefaction fee, plus I know half a dollar freight into Rotterdam. And there you are at the moment, that seems super cheap, but it still makes gas much more expensive here than in the United States. So if you've got industrial hat on, you think that doesn't resolve my long-term problems. And as you say, it puts us at the mercy of US export policy at the moment under Trump. They're volatile at best. And it keeps up a reliance on inputs that are potentially, unreliable. And potentially because of that prohibitively costly, and I've been saying this for a while in Europe, but the same applies to China and Northeast Asia as a whole, economically and politically, that sends you pretty strong signals. And that is to invest into capabilities that reduce your import reliance on these things permanently. The problem is we can't resolve that overnight, or not even this year. But we have to get there. This is the only way.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 15:01

Yeah. So that basically what you're saying is. More renewables and build grid so that you can just export it from one place to the other.

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 15:09

Renewable storage transmission. Some countries also nuclear. We can't just roll it out everywhere. But yeah, basically anything we can get our fingers on, I'm pretty much convinced of that. Yeah. And that would keep industry happy, would you say? If you do it if you do it in a coherent way with financing like for instance, the, these the subsidies or, you know, CFDs contracts for difference where you award a long-term price difference policy that supports you now and maybe, hopefully at some point when renewables get cheaper or clean tech solutions. I think that works. Yeah. You need government support for this. There's no, no way around it. But you need to, to enable that investment. But once they're there. These solutions help you decarbonize. They help you reduce import reliance and they help bring down prices yet. But you need the long run on this. You can't do this overnight. And politically, this is the problem. You need like a five to 10 year outlook here and so much politics now is short termist. And nationalist and populist. And as we keep saying at e age group, populists and nationalists are bad at two things that we really need at the moment. They need complicated decisions and long-term planning. And actually on top of that, you normally, especially in Europe, you need corporation between 27 member states and populist nationalists are bad at all of those things. And this is a major headache going forward.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 16:23

That's quite a major obstacle I would say there. I think you're absolutely right there. We are just about into day two of the Trump presidency. We've seen a flurry so far of executives, executive orders. What can we expect in the coming days, weeks, potentially Henning?

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 16:43

So it looks like, first of all, domestically speaking. This is where Trump is actually focused on his biggest efforts so far, which, for this podcast isn't the biggest priority. But domestically speaking with its the status of immigrants, especially those without legal documents is pretty bleak. He's gonna use the military on the borders to prevent immigration, but so the reason I mentioned this is he's using that to make. Foreign policy as well. So the most immediately impacted are Canada and Mexico, who he's, Trump has threatened to put a 25% tariff on all imports from February 1st, which is in two weeks time. In return for what he claims is uncontrolled immigration. And fentanyl imports via the borders of Mexico and Canada. This puts enormous pressure on these governments because Mexico and Canada, they're their biggest export partner by far, and import partner for that matter, but is the United States that this impacts the oil industries up. Canada exports 4 million barrels per day of crude oil to the United States. If. The Canadians, if this tariff happens, the Canadians have two options. They can they can either, if they want to react, they can either just discount their oil by 25% to make up for that for that tariff, and then they'll take the hit and basically swallow it, which is. Canada's an election campaign as well, which is not a very popular option, or they put a 25% counter tariff on this, in which case Canadian oil becomes 50% more expensive in the United States. This is heavy crude oil, which is difficult to replace because the US also has sanctions on Venezuela, which also supp applies heavy crude oil, and that brings you back to global markets. Then global oil markets start getting a bit wobbly because the United States certainly has to turn to imports of other forms of heavy crude oil, including from the Middle East. And then you'll see this what happens in oil markets. Sometimes you can see a ripple effect that goes through the global markets. But once he's got that one over the way with out of the way with tariffs of Mexico and Canada, he will turn to other markets, including the European Union. The European Union. He clearly doesn't like, Trump likes bilateral relationships. He doesn't like multilateral torts because for a simple and brutal reason, it's Machiavellian. Trump likes bilateral relat. So that he can negotiate from a position of strength because the United States is stronger than every other single partner in ev, almost every aspect. The only way area where the United States might sort of is on par or not significantly stronger than than other partners is on trade and on trade with the European Union. This is why he doesn't like the European Union. So from a European point of view, basically politically speaking, there's no other way. Around than to sort of huddle together when as Ian Breman president says that when there's an apex predator around, if you're the potential victim, you better group together. Which brings me back to the risk in Europe. This populism risk to go small state nationalism, this is a bad time to do this sort of stuff. Talk about Britain. It would be really convenient if Britain was part of a big club of trade partners with which they could huddle together rather than face tariffs from every side. But briefly back to what we can expect from Trump. He will go on trade and tariffs. He has mentioned tariffs all the time. He didn't do it on day one because he was focusing on domestic aspects and the energy. Policy for him is domestic, but he will turn to tariffs on virtually everybody, and we have to take him seriously on this. Because he's said it so often that he thinks tariffs are the solution to many of America's problems. He's gonna do it.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 20:05

And there's some talk Andres as well, that, the inclusion of Spain, for some reason in the bricks group of countries, so Brazil, Russia, India, China and slapping on potentially a hundred percent tariff on goods from Spain. Is this realistic? What are you hearing in Madrid? I've seen that there's some reaction from Spain.

Andres Cala - LNG Correspondent, Montel News: 20:22

It's a, I think ultimately it's very unlikely to say the least that, that you would impose sanctions on a European country. It would involve the, in u the eu at large inevitably as as many other Trump things. I, yeah, that's probably gonna be discounted going forward. I mean, there, there were previously also threats of sanctions because. Spain would blanc Israeli arm shirt shipments or arm shipments to Israel. So anyway, no, I it's not real realistic that he would he would. Include Spain or slap Spain with that type of tower. I think the broader issue, and I think Henning yeah, addressed it quite well. Ultimately from our point of view, Europe is squeezed at this moment because it has Trump on one side. But of course it has China on the other, on, on other side, and Russia of course on the other. And the needs in Europe needs a long-term policy as Hanin was saying ultimately, and it's squeeze in on the energy side because ultimately it needs to fulfill, its an energy requirements, it need to feed it, its industry. If it doesn't, then we have the, yeah, we're just strengthening the, these populous movements. And they're clinging to all these issues. On the short term, as honey was saying. Yeah it's a it's a very delicate position I think that Europe is in and ultimately it needs to on the energy side anyway yeah, be able to surf this out.'Cause Trump is gonna come hard. I fully agree with Henning that he, this is not bluff. This is not a bluff. And he has made it very clear. We're at the, unfortunately, I think we're at the mercy of whatever he's gonna negotiate with Russia. I think that is gonna alter global energy markets in every way. On, on oil, on gas, on LNG, on yeah, of course, climate change and everything. And a lot of it will depend on what Trump, how he decides to bilateral negotiate through things. And Europe must yeah find a proper path to serve this out.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 22:17

Yep. I think, but Europe needs to stick together. It's not the time now for cutting cables and for looking inwardly at at nationalistic or domestic policy. I think it's it'll be, it hard for 27 countries, but I think in until, I think it's certainly there's a case for standing firm against big bullies out there. But Henning, one of you mentioned industry, and the choice is faced by, for example, you would say a German mid to large size company in terms of its energy procurement costs. One of a major driver in recent years has been, the inflation reduction act in, in the us in terms of European companies looking to, to locate either battery for production sites or renewables facilities or whatever in the us. What's the status of that now, would you say? With the with Trump's inauguration and the Trump presidency, I should say.

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 23:08

Yeah, so investment front direct investment to the US has skyrocketed under the IRA. Actually there, those data released this week about that or last week. Very recently in this month, in January that shows FDI into the US has literally gone through the roof and a foreign directive estimate into. European countries like Germany, the UK has totally created, and this is a major problem for Europe. It's not only related to energy costs, it's, we have regulatory dodginess here. We have a lack of a capital market that in Europe that's unified. Of course, I mean energy is also problem oscopy as the price was so high, but there's also this. This, there's almost like a market frenzy going on about the United States, about the United States being a, an exceptionalist case. Then politically speaking, the conservative or the republic, the Trumpist folks, they are in a bit of a nationalistic frenzy saying it's us or them you invest here if you wanna be on our side, and it's gonna make a lot of people very wealthy. And it goes back to again, to say, okay, we have to see where we are going with this. If you take a step back, not everything in Europe is broken and not everything in the United States is fantastic. The United States is running at an enormous deficit. And a lot of the economic growth of the past years that Europe didn't have was fueled by consumer spending because. The Biden administration also gave direct cash injections to consumers, and it put the IRA injection into industry. So there was like injected money into industry and consumers. The deficit in the US as I mentioned, is going up consumer supporters going down the us. Consumer spending or savings. The consumer savings in the US are very low now whereas in Europe, most households save anywhere between 10 and 20% of their. Their income. So there is actually up room space. There's also parts of your at lease. It's not that deficit ridden. So if you have working policies, current coherent policies in place, you can unleash some spending and investment in Europe as well. And, but so this is for the next four years. Is gonna be Europe's job. We're gonna have to find ways to, to derive the common market capital spending to get consumers become a bit more confident again by creating growth and in the us. The IRA of course is still in place. Trump isn't gonna fully dial it back. But he's gonna dial back just the full green spending. He's that he doesn't like that, but if it's investment into critical minerals processing and factories he's gonna keep that in place because it's been very successful. And and, have to be honest to see the US is good at this sort of stuff. They've got the capital in place, they've got the government in place that wants to invest, and these things are gonna happen.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 25:44

He's called Windows very ugly. Something that you don't want in your backyard or anywhere close to your backyard. But he has, renewables is on a big growth period in the US a massive sort of, certainly an onshore as we stated earlier. And, he, one of his key key. Persons in his, is Elon Musk. He's a, he's an absolute Trump ally here. And how can then renewables and electric vehicles stay on track despite this kind of pivot towards fossil fuels? I think, certainly you've got the peoples that are on the podium there at the organization. You've got key AI tech people. They require massive amounts of cheap power, which renewables can give them. So is there a kind of a dichotomy here, divergence from this? Is this still on track despite the focus on fossil fuels?

Henning Gloystein - Director, Energy, Climate & Resources at Eurasia Group: 26:27

I mean, the Trump administration is full of contradictions. That's no secret. That's been the case in the past and it'll continue to be the case. But there is one thing he's consistent at. First of all, Trump consistently changes his mind if it suits him. He's just done it on TikTok. Just a few weeks ago, he was in favor of TikTok ban. Now he's revoked. He's given them a lifeline. Maybe it's because one of the tech billionaires will buy the remains of TikTok in the United States. Who knows? But if it benefits him, if it benefits the United States, he will change his mind on things. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump at some point turns pro ev because, Musk is in his in, on his horizon and in his field of influences and just says, put American EVs please. That would benefit most massively. And just it's anti-Chinese EVs. It might be anti-European EVs and. Korean or Japanese EVs, but it's very pro-American EVs. He could change his mind on that. He might go pro renewables. If it. Supports data and the ai and the tech bros in the United States I don't think he'll ever go pro offshore wind. He really doesn't like him. But yeah, maybe he says A beautiful American solar panels, beautiful American nukes, beautiful American EVs. If it's American he will change his mind. Yeah, that is one of his. Biggest strength. He does not care if you tell him well, but a month ago he said that. He'll say I changed my mind. And a lot of politicians aren't capable of doing that, but he is. And I, credit where credit is due, I guess he's good at that. And he will do this in this. Administration. And that is why in in some areas, the green boom in the United States will continue, but the holy gas boom will also continue. Make no mistake.

Andres Cala - LNG Correspondent, Montel News: 28:02

Ultimately all this ai electricity demand boom that we expect in the US and in Europe and in Asia, throughout the globe will not just be. Will not just rely on renewable energy, it will need gas backup, a lot of it. So this go, this is perfectly in line with Tom's policies. Anyway.

Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel: 28:20

It's hand in hand, but maybe we won't see any windowsills near key logo at any time soon. I think that's probably something that we could, that could we, we could say for sure. Henning and Andres thank you both for your time and your insights today and the main guests on the weekly podcast. But before we wrap up, I've got some exciting news. Next month, this podcast will be rebranding as "Plugged in - the energy news podcast". It'll still be the same weekly show you know and love, but with a fresh new look and feel. We'll continue bringing you the latest energy stories, in depth analysis and expert voices, plus some episodes will even be filmed. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.