Plugged In: the energy news podcast
Coming from the heart of the Montel newsroom, Editor-in-Chief, Snjolfur Richard Sverrisson and his team of journalists explore the news headlines in the energy sector, bringing you in depth analysis of the industry’s leading stories each week.
Richard speaks to experts, analysts, regulators, and senior business leaders to the examine not just the what, but the why behind the decisions directing the markets and shaping the global transition to a green economy.
New episodes are available every Friday.
Plugged In: the energy news podcast
The real costs of curtailing renewables
According to a recent report from Montel Analytics, the UK and Ireland curtailed GBP 152m of renewable energy in the first half of 2025.
Is this counter productive to the UK’s green and clean energy goals? Who foots the bill? Is the lack of adequate infrastructure in Europe’s grid hindering the green energy transition?
In this episode, Richard speaks to the author of the report and Renewable UK about how much curtailment is costing the industry, how it’s affecting investments in wind power projects and why batteries are essential in storing excess green energy production
Host: Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News
Contributor: Gabriel Power - UK Reporter, Montel News
Guests: Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel & Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK
Editor: Bled Maliqi
Producer: Sarah Knowles
Hello listeners, and welcome to Plugged In - the Energy News podcast from Montel, where we bring the latest news issues and changes happening in the energy sector, more wind, more solar, more renewable energy. Full stop. That's been the clear message from the UK government in recent years as the pressure to reach net zero amounts. Why then in the first half of this year did the UK system operator switch off enough wind to power the whole of Scotland's household for six months? Such forced cutbacks in renewable generation are problematic for several reasons. They're a waste of clean energy. There's also the financial aspect. Producers lose out on potential revenue system operators have to fork out compensation for lost income, and consumers pay higher bills as a result. Perhaps more worrying is the impact on policy makers. High curtailment rates could be used as evidence that the green transition is expensive and wasteful, which in turn could hit investments into decarbonization. In this episode, I speak to our own analyst from Montel Analytics, who authored a recent report on the curtailment of renewable generation in Great Britain and Ireland. I also speak to membership organization renewable UK about the impact of curtailment on an industry that's already facing substantial challenges. But first, I'm pleased to be joined by UK reporter, Gabriel Power. Welcome back to the podcast, Gabriel.
Gabriel Power - UK Reporter, Montel News:Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Gabriel, first of all. What do we mean by renewables, curtailment?
Gabriel Power - UK Reporter, Montel News:Well, when a grid is congested or when renewable output surges and outstrips demand generators are sometimes asked by TSOs to turn down or even halt power production entirely. So curtailment is what happens when low carbon electricity could be produced, but the grid simply can't really absorb all that power. A good example is the uk where a lot of our wind power is generated in the north of Scotland, but there isn't enough. Transmission capacity to move that electricity down to big demand centers in England, say especially on windy days when output is high. So to avoid overloading the system, the TSO in our case NISO pays those wind farms in Scotland to reduce their output. So it's basically the grid not being able to handle all the renewable power that is available.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:I mean, we're gonna go into great detail, especially with the UK case later in the podcast, Gabriel. But why is curtailment problematic?
Gabriel Power - UK Reporter, Montel News:So it's problematic for a couple of reasons. In practical terms, it basically just means that low carbon electricity isn't being allowed into the system, and it gets replaced by generation with a bigger carbon footprint, which in the UK's case is gas. And that kind of defeats the whole point of renewables as a whole. But also problematically for consumers in particular is that it's expensive when wind or solar farms are told to switch off. The system operator not only has to pay them compensation, but also has to pay gas plants in other parts of the country to fire up, to keep the system balanced. So they pay twice as you'll go into later with one of your guests. I believe. In the first half of 2025 alone, curtailment costs in the UK topped 152 million pounds. And this could get worse if. Grid investment doesn't catch up with the pace of wind build out. So it's a financial headache and a practical headache.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:So how does the renewable energy sector in the UK and across Europe view the issue of curtailment?
Gabriel Power - UK Reporter, Montel News:Plenty of countries in Europe struggle with curtailment due to grid bottlenecks and oversupply, and they've, these have become. Issues in wind heavy regions like Northern Germany and the Netherlands in Denmark where operators are having to turn off a clean generation, which frustrates developers and limits the environmental and economic benefits that they were hoping to deliver through these projects. And. I was speaking to one of our German reporters earlier today, and they were saying that the grid in Germany, much like any other places, is lagging behind compared to the renewables expansion. This is a big issue in countries from, Denmark to the Netherlands, to Germany, to elsewhere in the continent. So it's definitely an issue that people are concerned about, but it doesn't seem to be stopping the build out or. The addition of new projects to the pipeline. Like for instance, in 2024, Europe added more than 16 gigawatts of new wind, and the UK has one of the largest wind pipelines in the world. So clearly it's not actually deterring the build out. But it is still a concern.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Gabriel, thanks very much.
Gabriel Power - UK Reporter, Montel News:Thank you very much.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:I'm pleased to welcome Montel's Senior Energy Analyst, Fintan Devenney, back to the podcast. Good to have you back. Fintan.
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:Hello there. Hello. Good to be back.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:I'm also joined by Barnaby Wharton, director of Future Electricity Systems at RenewableUK. Welcome to the Plugged in Podcast, Barnaby. I'd like to start with you, Fintan. You recently authored a report, about curtailment of renewables in the UK, how much wind and solar power was curtailed in the first half of this year and how much has it cost?
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:So a great deal is the answer. And so across the GB market, I think there's been over four and a half terawatt hours of wind's energy that's been turned down. That's curtailed in the balancing mechanism. And most of that over four awa wat hours of that came just in the region of Northern Scotland. Total cost of this. If you're looking again, just in the regional of Northern Scotland, this is over 116 million GBP. So this is a lot of money. There's a lot of money that's being thrown around. It's a kind of systemic issue I think. It's not an issue that's come out of nowhere. But it's certainly big and it's certainly, a cost is ultimately gonna be fed back to the consumers.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:But who, so who's bearing the cost? Is that, you just answered that then for me, maybe Fintan it is ultimately consumers who are bearing the cost of this.
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:Yes, that's right. So yeah, the system operator NESO they are obliged to balance the GB power system with as low cost as possible. Even with that that kind of mandate they still having to take expensive balancing actions as a result of these kind of constraints around wind. The costs that they accrue for balancing the system, they will ultimately be fed back to end consumers. So if you are a person living in a house and you are paying an energy bill, part of that energy bill would be going towards paying for balancing the system, including these balancing costs from wind.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:And why is it happening in your view then Fintan And it's specifically in the north of Scotland said over four terawatt hours being cut back in, in the north of Scotland.
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:Yeah, so it's, there are many kind of interlocking reasons why it's happening, I think. But it's a kind of, to summarize, I think it's that there's been a big push from developers of wind farms and rightfully I think to build out as much predictable capacity as they can. And Scotland is a very attractive place to build out by capacity.'cause it has this windy climate and it has a low population density. So there's not so many people to complain about wind farms being installed. But equally we have there's been something of an imbalance in this. The build out of the grid capacity is not kept pace with the build out of renewables. So the grids. Was kind of largely built with the idea of, okay, we need to get power that's generated south of the Scottish border generated by power stations. We need to get it up into the remote regions of Scotland where all the yeah, with these kind of small sort of distribution networks are. Now it's flowing the other way. Now it's that we have a lot of generation in Scotland that is now being funneled through these very narrow pipes down into England. And so there are a number of key kind of constraints. Along the way. So the grid build out has not been keeping pace necessarily with the build of the renewables in the region.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Barnaby do you think it's a sign that, I think is there, you know, that current market arrangements aren't working? Fintan mentioned there's a systemic problem. I mean, are we seeing too much built out in too short space of time without the same amount of grid being built to accommodate that?
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:Fintan is exactly right. We have built a huge amount of new wind, particularly in Scotland.'cause as Fintan says it's a really great place for wind. It's windy up there. If you look at the kind of the load factors of the wind farms in Scotland, there may be five, 10% higher than in, in southern England. So it's a really great place to build up in Scotland. But it's a reflection of the, the fundamental challenge that we're changing the way the system works in says now we no longer have these sort of large power stations, in areas of demand. And building a system around that to a much more moving, to a much more distributed power system. So it. It is a journey we're on, I was looking back at the old future energy scenarios that what was then national good ESO used to produce. And back in 2015 what they were predicting in the kind of the most renewable scenario in 2030 is where we are today. And those scenarios are what we built the grid out to. So the reality is grid, sorry, wind has been incredibly successful, I think more successful than we thought it was going to be. And we haven't built the grid at a pace to keep up with that. Grid has traditionally been built in response to requirements. And we're just not kept up with that demand. And as a result, we're seeing lots of wind in Scotland and we're not able to carry it down to England. So we're seeing these constraint payments.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:I mean, the UK has very ambitious targets concerning Renewable energy and Net Zero Barnaby. Does, you know this curtailment issue, does it seem counterproductive in a sense.
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:It's, curtailment in these constraints are part of the system because if you wanted to eliminate them completely, what you'd have to do is to build a grid to meet peak generation demand, which is for one half hour a year. Clearly it's not economically practical to build the grid out to, to avoid all the constraints because you'd have cables that were used literally. A few minutes. So you want to have some constraints on the system to balance that kind of the economics between a grid and what you're generating. And the question is kind of where is that balance? And clearly at the moment we are not there. I mean, the good thing is that we are building lots more grid and there's lots of new cables in the pipe, cables in the pipeline. We've had that. To, to alleviate this, but the challenges, we're gonna see these constraints go up before they are then gonna come down once these, this new infrastructure comes online.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:What's been the impact on, on the industry and the renewable, the green sector in the uk?
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:This is frustrating. No one wants to see constraints like this. This is this renewable clean power that we're generating that we're not then using. And that's, really frustrating for the industry. No one wants to see this. So we need to think about what else could we do? What are the solutions that we can bring forward to address this that isn't just building out more grid. Can we drive more demand in areas like Scotland where there's loads of wind to soak up this power and we can't shift it. Yeah. Know what is the role of storage in all of this as well. You batteries, you're pumped, hydro, that sort of thing to absorb this excess power. We can't move at the time, but then we can move maybe later on. So it's thing, what are the solutions? How can wind demand storage all work together in the market to address it?
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Yep. We'll come onto several of those points later in the discussion. I think Barnaby but Fintan, do you think it's purely a sort of grid infrastructure issue here, or, you know, are there policy issues to address as well in terms of these curtailments and these constraints?
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:Well, I think in terms of policy, this is forms the backbone of one of the big policy decisions in the GB market, which is the whole discussion around zonal pricing.'Cause you talk about things like, okay, moving demand into into Scotland where it can so up the excess wind. Zonal pricing was proposed as one of the options on the table for helping to solve this problem. The UK government has decided to not go with Zonal pricing in the end. But there are other locational signals that through policy they are looking to send out, which could help alleviate this problem. That includes changing the way that the transmission network use of system charges are are applied which should introduce a more of a kind of locational signal. So there are policy changes that are happening on the government side that could help alleviate this problem. Those zonal pricing is not one of them anymore that's gone off the table.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:But is there a way of incentivizing demand, for example, Fintan trying to get data centers or other other industrial companies to to relocate up in, in the Scotland for example?
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:That's a good question, and I think, so I know that the government is introducing a thing called the Strategic Spatial Energy Plan which is a report that should be due for publication sometime next year. My understanding is that this would be a kind of a holistic sort of planning review of, whereas A, the generation B, the grid, and I think to my understanding, c, where the demand center's likely to be. So I think the government are taking something of a view on this. I'm not sure if there are specific policies aimed at data centers. I'm not sure, but yeah, having a view on where demand is something that the government are looking to do.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Yeah. What's your view here, Barnaby? Do you think, what kind of policy response do you think that should be appropriate here?
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:It, driving demand is part of it. And so on the transmission network, use of charge side of things can. Reduce those costs and say, actually if you connect big demand in these areas your network charges will be much lower than if you do down in the south. So that is part of the picture and the reforms of those charges. But it's also, yeah. Can you connect. These projects quickly because one of the big challenges we have on the grid side of things as well is the connection timeline. So you say, I wanna connect, national Grid and others, the other tos transmission operators to say we will connect you, but we've got loads of work, so it's actually gonna be in 10 years time. So can we bring forward those connection dates for strategic demand sooner as well? So it is to, there's this whole kind of plethora of things going on at the same time and it all needs to come together. And the strategic spatial energy plan is gonna be a big part of that. Setting out where should generation be, where do we need demand? And then how does that all kind of work together? Because, the world is getting much more complicated.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Yeah, absolutely. And you, me, you mentioned storage. Barnaby, is that a possibility here for Scotland, the north of England even to soak up the summer suck in some of this renewable, excess renewable energy?
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:It is an absolutely essential part of the picture. If you could be incentivizing storage to build and soak up this power, and then when the constraints are relieved, you can then send it down south rather than, turning up gas in the south. That obviously will improve. Both the carbon emission situation but also the way we're managing the system. And the great thing is that in Scotland, not only is it really windy, it's also quite mountainous. There's lots of opportunity for long duration, pumped hydro storage in Scotland. And there's I think around eight gigawatts of, pumped hydro capacity in Scotland that is in either, planning and development. That's a grid opportunity there. So we need to move forward with that side of the market as well. And then there's a cap floor scheme being developed right now to incentivize that build out. I guess the question is how long will that take and what's gonna happen in the intervening years?
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Absolutely. What's the kind of local acceptance of these kind of projects? I know, there's certainly been opposition to pylons, to grid lines, to wind turbines. And what about to pump storage in Scotland?
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:We haven't built a new pumped hydro station in about 40 years in the uk, so I guess we don't yet. But some have got a consent the advantages that. Unlike, say, wind farms or pylons. These are essentially lakes and dams, so they're much less visible until you get a writeup on them. So they are I think less impactful in all the landscape and therefore more acceptable to local communities.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Fintan what's your view here? What are you seeing? Generally a lot of storage being planned for the Scotland and the north of England in response to this kind of excess of renewable energy.
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:So yes, I can tell you that there's certainly a great deal of batteries that are currently in the connection queue that are looking to connect. We have enough batteries currently in the queue to meet the 2030 targets. So a lot of these assets are bottlenecked really by. The current connections process. As Barnaby was say, if there are reforms to this connections process, and if there are specific locational incentives to connect more easily or more cheaply or whatever in Scotland I could certainly see that having an impact.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Barnaby, Fintan mentioned Zonal pricing that would obviously have had a major impact. Is there anything else that can happen here on, on the government, both the local or national level here to, to alleviate some of these issues that we've been talking about?
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:The storage point is obviously really critical, as you say. And actually on the charging side, one of the things that we see is that storage is treated as generation basically. So subject to the same kind of rules and incentives. As generation, actually, we want to be incentivizing storage to build behind these constraints rather than in front of them as with generation. So there, there are tweaks like that, that need to be addressed. There also are new markets. So one of the things that the NESO National Grid. Sorry, no longer National Grid. The National Energy System operator has been looking at it is what's called the Constraints Collaboration Project. So how can they create new markets for both to demand and natural and storage and some supply to help. Manage this process and soak up some of this power build in the right place. So there, there are new markets and as Fintan said, when when the Zonal decision was made, so Zonal pricing was rejected. One of the big focuses then is on these new markets that are being developed to incentivize this sort of thing. So there are lots of solutions out there and I think it's about putting together a kind of a cohesive package that will address all of these issues rather than. Yeah, focus of the problem. I guess it's just what are the solutions and how do we kind of move forward both on the short term and then the long term which is probably more around building grid.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Absolutely. That's key. So some clearly thought out policy here that's connected to the issues at hand rather than just building as quickly as possible. I think that's obviously created several issues. Are you seeing any slow down in investment into to wind or even to solar as a result of these curtailments? We've seen some of that in other parts of Europe, but what's the situation in the UK market, Barnaby?
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:I don't think we've seen slow down in indirect response to the curel themselves. As ton was saying, when, when wind farms are being curtailed, they get compensated essentially for the lost power.'Cause they have already, they've already sold that power in the markets. So you have the constrained payments to essentially compensate the wind farms for the money that they. Already committed as it were. The market is not in itself disincentivizing this build out. I think the what is driving have some of the slowdown is things like uncertainty around connection dates. So we go through a big process of connections with form. Then also there, there are wider challenges I think in the market around, lots of issues. Such as supply chain bottlenecks inflation, and, you know, the uncertainty in the marketplace. And one of the reasons that industry was so concerned about the zonal or pricing solution was that it created so much uncertainty about what future markets and individual zonals would look like, that no one would commit any money for, quite a long time until that problem was a or clarity about how that would work was provided. Yeah, there, there are lots of things going on, but actually I think the constraints side of things is not what's slowing down or creating a challenge for generation
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Fintan. Is there also an issue here, renewable energy, whether you like or not, it has become quite very political. It's often used as a whipping. Wind turbines, people, a lot of opposition to that from certain quarters. Is there danger that here, that the issue curtailment could be used as evidence that the green transition is both wasteful and expensive and then therefore, could impact, policymakers in that direction.
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:Yes. So we were very careful when we put this report together. Because yes, you're absolutely right that it's easy to look at this and think, oh, the easy solution is, oh, we're turning down too much wind that is wasted wind, so therefore if we stop building wind, there will be less wasted wind. And there are certain kind of. Certain people in certain political quarters who like to talk about very simple solutions to very complex problems. And that is the simple solution, is the kind of the null solution. Just stop building wind. That isn't the solution long term. Because in, in the long term, I think the green transition is something that is really needed. We're not building, we're not building wind farms because it's necessarily making energy bills cheaper now, but in, 30, 40 years time or whatever, energy bills are gonna look hopefully a lot better for the fact that we've put this legwork in now. Yes, it's absolutely the case that some people will interpret these numbers as thinking that we should stop building out wind. To the extent that we are, I would argue that we start need to building out other aspects, including the grids to the same extent that we are wind. That's how I would interpret this.
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:Yeah, I incentives is exactly right, you've seen, I think over the past year, the politics of decarbonizing the grid changed quite significantly for all sorts of reasons that your listeners to be familiar with. But one of the things that, that is setting forefront of the debate is that the cost of wasted wind. And I think it's really important to look at the numbers because actually when you look at the, the total cost of constraints and however breaks down the cost of turning downwind. Is about half of the cost of then turning up the gas south of the border. So the increase in costs of curtailment mutually separated from the volume and the increase in costs is primarily driven by what's happened to gas prices over past few years. So if your solution to this is build less wind, do more gas, you're gonna actually be driving at prices. So it's about how do we enable this wind to not be curtailed rather than not have the wind in the first place. It's a really critical solution.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:And building out those flexible solutions, as we've talked about, the batteries are absolutely crucial. As you said, Barbaby. Barnaby if I can just ask you more, more generally about the renewable sector. We've seen Denmark's Ørsted struggling at the moment and the wider European and global industry is facing several challenges. At the moment. We've seen auctions not being successful in several countries. I are we gonna see these big renewable producers, these big companies continue to struggle in the years ahead.
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:I don't think so. I think what we've seen over sort of recent years is. Some fundamental challenges in the economics and global climate. You've obviously got a very different economic and fiscal situation, I guess in the United States with tariffs and things. But it's, we're thinking about the structure of how we build out wind. It is all of the cost of a wind farm is upfront. And then once it's built it's very cheap to run. And you have, but you have to recover those costs over a long time. And what we've seen is, really high inflation in terms of steel, cement, commodities. And this is, you significantly impacts the, that kind of upright cost and how that's managed over the longer term. So I think once the kind of the current I guess sort of economic situation settle down, I think we'll see some more car coming to the market. But it's a bit of a fundamental shift in the way people are approaching things. So I think it's been, it has been a kind of rocky couple of years probably with that, the global challenges economically. But I think in the long term we will see things settle down and revert to normal.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:There have been some headwinds, certainly, pardon the pun in recent weeks or months. But Fintan. Are we also seeing more generally as we see, certainly we see this summer temperatures reaching very high levels in across Europe. Does is, are we gonna see more problems in terms of the flexibility of our systems, in terms of renewables generation, that this is gonna impact how we produce wind power, for example. And even solar in these times of e extreme weather conditions.
Fintan Devenney - Senior Energy Analyst, Montel:I think you certainly see more issues grid size in, on continental Europe. When people start getting. Quite intense 'cause the temperatures there do get quite a bit higher. So if you're thinking about he heat wave in Scotland is very different to heat wave in Spain. We'll say that. So I think for, in terms of extreme weather conditions for wind, particularly wind in Scotland, I think what's probably more relevant than things like heat waves is when you start getting storms.'Cause we're starting to see more and more storms because climate change is a thing. It's not great. And. When is occasionally when a kind of extreme weather event can come in sometimes wind assets will have to switch off their blades just to prevent them from being damaged in storms. So extreme weather is something that we have to take more and more of a view on. But yeah, the picture in the UK and Ireland certainly looks different to how it does on the continent in terms of how. The extreme temperatures, extremely high temperatures during heat waves can affect grid and the ability to move power around the grid.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:And how is the industry dealing with these kind of challenges Barnaby of extreme heat and more storms, et cetera.
Barnaby Wharton - Director of Future Electricity Systems, RenewableUK:It's interesting that kind of the difference between I guess the impacts of solar in this very hot Southern Europe versus, the storms in Scotland. We saw storm Floris come through in recent weeks and you did see some wind farms. Shut down because of the very high winds. But one things that's worth bearing in mind is that, those shutdowns are usually pretty localized. So it may even be down to some individual turbines on individual wind farms in the gusts of shutting down rather than, the whole of Northwest Scotland wind farm wind fleet shutting up. It's not that bad. It's not bad is something we make out, but it's it can be a challenge. I think more of the issues actually around the grid infrastructure and how we manage the grid infrastructure storm to make that more resilient. I think the interesting things in southern Europe is that obviously when it's very hot, there's also actually a lot more solar. So you do see demand, rise with solar supply. So that's more in sync. But again, it's how do those high temperatures affect the power electronics, the grid and that sort of thing. And that's where the challenge can be coming again. We obviously building out renewables. We're trying to. Mitigate climate change. But we're also gonna need to adapt and think about how do our assets function in these more extreme weather conditions. Whether it is, more storms, deeper snow or indeed kinda much higher temperatures. And also the radiation.
Richard Sverrisson - Editor-in-Chief, Montel News:Certainly more challenges ahead. Anyway Barnaby and Fintan, thank you very much for being guests on Plugged In - the Montel News podcast. It's been an excellent and insightful discussion. I hope you agree, listeners, and thank you for tuning in to this episode. Our podcast episodes are released every Friday. For the latest news from Montel, please visit montelnews.com and you can follow us on LinkedIn, Bluesky, and other social media channels. See you next time.
