Market Place vs. Ministry

In a world that constantly tells us to chase titles, platforms, promotions, and recognition, it's easy to confuse ambition with purpose. But what if the life God has called you to isn't about building your name, but building His Kingdom?

In this episode of Truth, Measured, I sit down with Todd Turnbo Jr., Elder and Children's Ministry Director, coach, husband, and father, for a conversation about identity, calling, leadership, and living on purpose.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I don't really have a horror story. A lot of the darkness that take took place in my life was actually after I answered the call.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

When ambition goes beyond devotion. Speak on that.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Ambition, when it goes beyond devotion, is such a dangerous place. I believe that's how heresy comes.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

There has to be some dying to self to even walk into that. So tell me, tell me about that.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

You know, congratulations, congratulations. And I scratch my head. I'm like, what do you what do you mean by congratulations? Do you know like this is a death sentence? Like, I can never be the same ever again.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Welcome back to Truth Measure Podcast. Thank you once again for joining me. I am excited that you're still here with me on this journey. Uh, we are now in season two. Woohoo! Season two. I can't believe it. When I started this podcast, who knew that we would be um going this long and that God would keep doing what he's doing. So thank you for being here today. I have a treat. I am so excited for today's guest. Um, mostly because this brother, who I um consider to be a brother for sure, um was with me when I was talking about doing this podcast before we even started. And so for him to um have been a part of the pre-podcast discussions and now to actually be on the show is just um it's a full circle moment. So I'm excited to welcome to the podcast my brother Todd Turnbo Jr. Welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

It's a pleasure and an honor. Uh definitely a privilege to be here. I appreciate you inviting me.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I mean, you're here. Yeah. And we're here in Columbus. I had to come all the way here.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Go Books.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Go Books.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

I know. No, I go.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

I had to come all the way here to make this happen because um I believe that what you have to say and what God has given you on so many different um areas and topics that we talk about all the time. Uh I believe that it's important for people to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

And uh so I'm excited to just just jump in and see what God speaks through you today.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

That's the hope. If he's not speaking, then no one needs to be listening.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Exactly. You know, you are we're we'll get into it. Before we get into it, I just want to give a brief uh introduction so that y'all know who is sitting here in the building with us today. No, seriously, this is my favorite part of uh having guests on the show because I just feel like my friends are royalty. I feel like I have a wealth of friends, um, and I I love showing them off. So, Todd Turnbull Jr. is a seasoned leader in youth development, faith-based community, as well as in the marketplace. He has years of experience as a high school football coach, a summer camp counselor, and is now an elder that serves as children's ministry director at Hope City Global here in Columbus. And global meaning like other countries. Todd brings a wealth of insight into various topics like marriage, parenting, and personal growth. As a passionate advocate for strong families and faith, Todd is excited to share practical wisdom and heartfelt conversation on every platform and space set apart for individuals looking to develop into effective leaders. So, Todd, let's get into it. Who are you talking? You talking about me? No, I'm just joking. Yes, all all of that is is is you, sir. Um so just just to give a little bit more background for the people watching, um kind of describe what your faith journey has looked like um growing up. How is it that you um stepped into to ministry and to the calling as now elder?

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Well, first I would I would like to say I'm gonna need a little bit of grace because you know I cry a lot. Okay. So I'm gonna try to do this without crying. Sure. Um for dual purposes. I mean, I'm here with my sister, I love you so much. And um it's just it's really a blessing to to have you here on uh on ground zero. Yes. And you know, I do really believe that God is doing something significant in this hour, and I want to be a part of it. I want my children to be a part of it. You know, I want my wife to be free to be a part of that. So I'm a little tenderhearted these days because I feel the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Hey, you know. Let them use you.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Amen. But um, so you were asking um like how I started into ministry and stuff like that. So I don't know how far back you want me to go, but I was basically, you know, I don't really have a horror story. Um a lot of the darkness that take took place in my life was actually after I answered the call to preach. Um you know, just like any other child, uh particularly young black male, you know, who did grow up with his father, there was tension there, you know, just trying to figure out how to be a man, grow into a man, and respond to authority at the same time. You know, my dad was definitely not absent. He was very much in the home. You you know him. He used to whoop our tails. He used to hold us accountable. Can I say that on camera? Yes. Um yeah, it's a different day now. But um, so you know, coming up, you know, I was basically I wasn't given the option to go to church. You know, my parents, you know, it was very much the standard to go to church and not just go to church but participate. You know, we were involved in a lot of things. Um, but one of the most important things that I would say kind of shaped my view of ministry, life as a Christian, journey with Jesus type deal was the fact that my parents demonstrated servitude in the house of the Lord as well as they were integral about their office at home. So they didn't live two different lives. The person I knew my dad to be at home was the same person I knew him to be at church. So he wasn't giving this facade to everybody else that you know he's this person, this leader, this father, this, you know, go-getter to everybody else, and then coming home and being some other person. So I know um that pretty much put me in a situation where I had like a point of reference. So um by by the time I came of age to even really have a mind of my own and choice of my own as to whether or not I was gonna follow God um at a level of leadership in ministry, um, that's when I started to see a lot of the pressure come from the adversary. You know. Yeah, I mean, I was a kid, you know, high school, it was girls, you know what I'm saying? Um there was pressure to do things, but I I didn't smoke, I didn't drink, you know. Unfortunately, I was in the club doing things I shouldn't have been, and uh it's kind of a running joke, like when when I tell my testimony to different people, I'm like, well, you guys may be embarrassed about being drunk, and unfortunately, I actually was sober and I remember a lot of the things. And so, you know, that's what I had to get delivered from. A lot of the memories. Um I'm trying to focus and have a even having a healthy relationship, you know, with a woman, you know, having all that in the backdrop of my imagination, you know what I'm saying, and trying to hone in on what was true and what was real. Um, those are the wars that I had to fight. So, you know, I was a church boy, um, but then, you know, when I decided at the age of 19 that I was gonna join Bishop Brian Keith Williams' the late, the the great Bishop Williams' uh school of ministry, um, I was 19, I was the youngest in the uh entire school. And it was uh it was a lot. It was one of the first times when I started having my personal authentic, I would say authentic worship experiences when I was hearing from God, feeling God, being aware of his presence, and really being being um impacted internally. Where you know I don't know how it is that people stand in people's in the presence of the Lord and not really express any type of emotion. He's a god of emotion, that's why we're made in his image. And so um that was when I was really like shaped. I went on his on his missions trip um with a ministry school, and we were there for about six days. It was like six days of travel, so we were there for a solid five, four to five days. And um there was this time where one of the worship leaders who was a part of my church at the time who went with us on the trip, and we were at a luncheon, and before Bishop even exhorted, it was just the two of these guys leading worship, and we had just got done eating, and I remember feeling the presence of God like no other. Like I was marked. I know I was marked that day. And I knew that that was probably gonna be one of the most critical points or aspects of my relationship with God is me being able to have that that connection with Him. Yeah. I knew that at that point, if I had that, if I had that, then I was gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Now, we grew up together in church, and I like to say how, you know, we we were some serious church kids about God, you know, and I think it came from our parents who were um living a lifestyle of holiness before us. You know, they our parents were serious about what it meant to be holy. Yes. And so it absolutely translated to us as children. And, you know, I laughed because we we was in church at like seven, eight dancing, shouting, speaking in tongues, like and was serious about that. And so we we grew up knowing who God was and knowing what it felt to be in the presence of God. And so, you know, as you journeyed uh into adulthood and now you're you know in in ministry and you're leading other children, how has your experience uh growing up in church being under um the leaders who we were under as far as um kingdom kids, how has that influenced how you lead this next generation of children um as being the over you know a director of the children's ministry now?

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Um shout out to Brother and Sister Byrd. Yes, you know, the late brother Byrd. We love him so much, Sister Byrd. She was just so like creative. You know, they actually took my brothers and I to uh an amusement park. They took us to King's Island. That was the first time we had ever been to an amusement park.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

And just seeing how much like they cared about the kids. They just cared about us. Um and they they gave us the truth. You know, I remember Brother Bird, him disciplining some of the boys. You know, he held us accountable. Now he didn't have to necessarily do that to me because we already talked about who my dad was. But um some of my homeboys, you know, you know, they got out of line. Brother Bird was like, well, step into my office. You know, but we you know, the way they ran the children's ministry, it was very holistic approach. You know, it was about family. Um Sister Bird, she she didn't just teach us a bunch of Bible scriptures, you know, um, she taught us stories. Um stories about black history, about life, you know, and really solidified our viewpoint as young um black children. Because most of the church, you know, we were people of color. So our experience with with their with their leadership, you know, because they were so family oriented oriented, um, it wasn't just like a a lesson. It wasn't like, you know, kids they go to school every day and they you know sit up in front of a teacher, right? They sit in front of a teacher, and the teacher gives them a lesson plan, and then you know, it's Q ⁇ A, maybe, you know what I'm saying? And then there's a test or a quiz. You know, the whole situation with uh with them, it was very much interactive. They gave us ways to really like embody the scripture.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Because you had that experience of uh being under leaders who were, you know, approaching children's ministry holistically, um, you not not just looking at, you know, we're here to teach a lesson today, and then you go home and hopefully you got it. Um has that been something that you've implemented in terms of your leadership today with children's ministry?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Absolutely. I mean, I I don't think it we're doing the kids justice by putting them out there, um maybe giving them a few scriptures, giving them a coloring page, you know. Um we they do have verses, but we don't just pass out memory verses, you know. We teach concepts, right? So it's it's you know, thy word have I hid in my heart 100%. You know, you need to remember scriptures. I'm pretty sure that you can reflect on times in your life where you probably weren't in alignment with God's will. Right. But there were scripture references that kind of were like beacons of light for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

And they come back to they come back to your memory at the time when you you know you need the most.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

And that's how potent the word of God is, but I'm saying even beyond that, when you do engage children, we don't we don't assume that we have to go so low and water it down. I remember being in the sanctuary when I was a 10-year-old boy. Right. Nine-year-old boy, and the man of God is preaching like out of the Bible, not out of the children's calling book. You know what I'm saying? He's he's treat teaching out of the Bible. And I remember specific sermons that he would preach that that cut me. You know? Um, and then some of them were just like they gave me so much life because the world wasn't the only place that things were being discussed at a very interesting level. You know, I could literally be in the sanctuary and have a preacher preach from the word and literally uh captivate my my attention as a child. So we have that same approach, not that we're trying to talk over their heads, but we're trying to give them what they'll eventually need. Right? Um, so that when they in their old days they will not depart.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah. It's it's interesting, you know, when you talk about um what that scripture means, you know, training the child up so that they don't depart. It's not just does it mean just giving them information for them to regurgitate? Like that training process has to be such that it can carry them when they are no longer, you know, in your home.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

I mean, think about think about when you're in school, right? How many subjects have you forgotten? How many math equations? I don't remember math at all. I didn't even enjoy algebra. What are you talking about? Yeah, uh don't ask me the teacher that made impact on you. Yeah. That cared enough. Now, it's funny, I forgot a lot of the things that I learned in the tenth grade. But I remember my third grade teacher, Madame Baxter. I went to the French emergent schools. Call her Madame Madame. Um, but I learned math from a woman whose natural language was not English. I learned how to write cursive from a woman who was not from America. Yeah. I'm not saying that you have to be from America to write cursive. What I'm saying is God orchestrated for me to engage at an intellectual level, academic level, with someone who had the responsibility to give me information that was supposed to help me transition into the latter years of my life, and she came from another country.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Right. So, so being, you know, pretty much full-time in ministry and also uh being within the marketplace, how do you you balance that? What does that look like in terms of um you know your whether it's daily routine or just how you balance the responsibilities that come with full-time ministry and also being, you know, within the the marketplace?

SPEAKER_03 18:12

So ref respectfully, I mean, these people, when you say full-time ministry, you know, I it used to be like this thing where, you know, if you're out there and your job is preaching, right? And you don't have nothing else that you're doing, your job is preaching. That's full-time ministry. Full-time ministry really applies to anybody who is literally allowing their life to be totally surrendered to God. That means the things you enjoy in your spare time, the things that God has skilled you to do, that you really may not even find that much joy in, but he's giving you a skill, right? Then your passions, all of those things in your career, if that isn't one of them, all those things wrapped into God's purpose and will and his direction. You're doing that, you're in full-time ministry. Anyone who is a Christian who is professing to be an ambassador for Christ, someone who's defending the faith, like you are in full-time ministry. Yeah. You should be. You should be doing any of that to the glory of God. But I'll say um I did used to have aspirations to be a public speaker, to be a network marketer, because I eventually figured it out. I'm pretty good at, you know, speaking, engaging with people, you know, um, even exhorting to the point where I can get people to do things. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

That leadership, inspiration, motivational speaker. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Right, right. So, I mean, and it wasn't necessarily to bring me attention or glory, but it was just I had so much, I got so much joy out of seeing people come alive. I have a conversation with someone where I'll stand in front of a group of people and they're looking at me like, what's next? And I give them something that I believe God gave me, and suddenly I'm getting testimonies like, man, I remember when you said this. And and so those things pretty much kind of helped me figure out what I wanted to do from a practical standpoint. And I used to want to be a network marketer and a public speaker, but now I remember going to the church that I go to now. Um one day it was a uh a Bible study, and instead of preaching, um, Bishop Bryan he decided that he was going to show this video about these um, I believe they're called the Cur people. Uh don't quote me on that, but this was several years ago. And there are these people that are basically don't, to my recognition, they don't have a nation of their own. They're kind of like nomadic, and they're being pursued, at the time they were being pursued by um Islamic strength extremists and basically putting pressure on them to convert or or else. Right. And then there was these people, these missionaries from America, and I imagine they probably come from other countries as well, but this particular segment that we watched, these missionaries came from America and they literally uprooted their entire families. Wow. They aborted the American dream, which is what I'd be preaching if I'm you know doing public speaking and doing network marketing events, is what I was doing. Right. Um, but they abandoned that and decided they're gonna give themselves to missionary work. And they took their children and their spouses and moved over into these um this place, um, and they would basically serve these people and build schools and feed them, do all of the practical work, and then take the opportunity to minister the gospel. Yeah. And when I sat there, I was like floored, like, what am I doing? Yeah. People are giving away their op their American right to pursue happiness. And they're like, no, we're gonna go over here and do God's will. And I just had to look at them like, and all these little speeches, and where is God's will? You know? And uh it really changed me because then I started questioning. I started questioning why I did a lot of the things that I was doing. And um really what it did, it just opened me up for what God actually wanted to do. How he wanted me to properly serve the people that I was already around. You know, you trying to go conquer the world and this young married couple, they need help. You know? They're not gonna make it if you don't do what God called you to do. And that's why I'm thankful for my wife because she's been super like uh instrumental in encouraging me to stay focused and believe that uh where God has us is where we need to be. Where you're supposed to be. And she's actively participating in the journey. She's not like you go preach, you go serve the kids, you go do that, you know. No, she's like right there.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Doing it in a very honorable and an excellent way. You know my wife.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Oh, yeah. So so how would you encourage people to um figure out a way to join what they do really in every day, whether you know that's whatever their career looks like, how do they join that with ministry and with purpose?

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Well, I know that it is inherently difficult to do much of that without a proximate, very active relationship with Jesus. I mean even when we feel like we're um doing something for God or doing what we believe our purpose is. You know, people talk about purpose and purpose and purpose. All of those things don't really get established and get clearer until you get a more present and clear vision of who Jesus is. You what you'll find a lot of times is we'll have great ideas and and then uh we'll try to tie God's name to it. You know, almost like one of those balloons. Like it's a party now because there's a balloon here.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

So it's it's it's Jesus time now because he's connected. But he's he's he's not really, he's a fixture. He's not he's not the house. Um so I would encourage people first to to really like hone in on opportunities to really like connect with Jesus from a scriptural level, you know? Uh get in your word. I mean, this is the truth measured, yeah. Right? Um, get to the point to where the the word of God is measuring you, it's looking over you. You're not just looking over the word. Um, I heard a preacher say that once, and I was like, shout out to my guy Corey Russell. You don't know that I was one of his disciples. But the the word is like looking over you, and then it takes hold of you. And I'm just like, yeah, that is actually how it works. That's what I experienced when I seen those people give up the American dream. It's like, oh no, they have a conviction that's otherworldly, that's from another age, that makes them change how they view opportunity. Right. You know, in this day and age. And so once you've established that, then you adopt God's heart because now you're you're with him, you're in a secret place, you're learning his mind, you're adopting his heart, his heart is now your heart, right? And then now you see opportunities, even career, a career that you may be in involved right now, um, you'll see it from a different lens.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah. So what do you what do you say? Because you know, culture, of course, promotes this idea of uh career advancement. You know, you got to do all these things to advance your career. You gotta, you know, go to school, you gotta put yourself in certain positions, you gotta network, you gotta do all of the things that's gonna advance your career. And as a black man, you know, that's really important because it's like at least society says that part is important because you are um representative of the culture, you know, you got people looking up to you, and career advancement and what might work for your career may not always look like kingdom building. Right. And so what do you say to that? Like how do you um what what do you do personally, I guess, to sort of make sure that that what you're doing as far as career is also aligning with kingdom. And how do you do those checks and balances to to make sure that okay, this is this is kingdom work because that's why I'm here.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Yeah. A lot of the times that stuff doesn't get unveiled until you're like in the middle of it. Because none of us are really walking with God like Adam was in the cool of the day and just know everything at all times.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Or we're not listening.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

Something's not happening. There's something happening and something not happening at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah. So um I can't profess to be somebody that always hears the voice of God talking to me. But that's why we have the Holy Spirit. Yeah. No, they that are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. I mean, look at that. He doesn't say they that are led by the Spirit of God, they're followers of God. Right. Your sons. Your sons. Your son. Yeah. There's things you do for your son that you will not do for another little boy. Right. We love all the children. Jesus loves all the little children in the world. But that's your son. Imagine, he wants something, needs something, or needs correction, or needs help, needs a boost in life. He's gonna, you're gonna do that for him within reason, right? And so that's what how God handles us. He handles us within the measure uh or the framework of his ordained purpose. A lot of people think that God figures out your your purpose after you figure out your purpose. Like, like God wasn't already working with your purpose before you figured it out. No, you just got here. He's been here. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so once we, you know, get to a point where we're trusting God that He's the final, uh, He has the final say, um, it's not really that hard. You know, and in everything you should do, think every anything with excellence, right? And if he's leading the charge in your daily efforts, you're gonna find yourself trying to figure out how to give him glory. How can I give him glory? Um, if he hasn't already established an assignment, he hasn't already given me, like, for example, I drive a bus, a school bus. Um praise God, not no more, because today was the last day of school. Hey, hallelujah. But I was on that bus um and today um I took the opportunity to really speak into the kids' lives. You know, um for example, in my middle school, they're like my roughest bunch. And there are more of them on the bus at their time than any of my other tiers. I do uh elementary, middle, junior high, and high. And so those kids, they're they're a rowdy bunch, and when I first took the route over, you know, I gave them structure, structure that I know was not given to them by previous drivers. And um no shade to them, that's just how they like running their bus. Well, I, you know, I have five kids. We shall we shall adhere to the standard and we and then we all will overcome. Amen. So I was basically holding holding them accountable, you know what I mean? And it wasn't like I wasn't writing them up every other week, um, you can't chew gum. No, I had simple instructions, stay out the aisle, keep the noise level down, right? Keep your hands to yourself, all right? That means your iPads, you keep that noise level down, right? And um, yeah, that's that's pretty much it. Stay out the aisle so I can, you know, I can see how I need to do. Yeah, yeah. I want you to be safe. Right. Well, they didn't get that, right? And so I'm a bus driver. Nobody's preaching at the bus lot. Nobody's preaching at the, you know what I mean, at the bus stop. However, I had a moment when we got back to the school, I knew I wasn't gonna be driving them this afternoon. So I told them, I said, hey, it's been a joy driving you guys. Thank you for allowing me to be your bus driver. Let me ask you real quick, who in here didn't like me when I first started? And they were ten of them raised their hands.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Willingly and expeditionally, emphatically.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Two of the kids, I didn't even know they didn't like me. How do you not like me? You way in the back. How do you how do you like we didn't even interact, really? Other than good morning and or whatever. And so um I had this bag of chips, and one of the kids asked me if I could get them chips yesterday. So I was looking at them prices, I was like, I already gave them like goodies last week. Like, so why would I I don't have to buy all these. I know what I'll do. So I bought a bag of chips. It was like 10 bags. Now I might have written my own obituary. But literally 10 kids raised their hands and I said, okay. So I took the 10 chips and I passed them out to the kids that didn't like me. And um I encouraged them. Now that a bunch of other kids, I don't know if they were telling the truth or not. Oh, I didn't like you. I didn't like you either. I was like, listen, the point is I'm trying, all I wanted to do was hold you accountable. Right? I care about your safety, and I told the kids that I love them. Now we have cameras all over the bus, so I could get in trouble for it, but it is what it is. Being authentic. That's what I'm trying what I'm trying to get at. I love the kids. I genuinely want to see them succeed. Now, a lot of these kids are like 12, 13 years old. I said, listen, don't get in trouble this summer. Right? If you had a bad year this year, it doesn't have to be bad next year. But it starts this summer. You have to change your mentality. All right? But just know, uh, not every bus driver is going to show you love like this, but I want you to know that I love you. And I believe in you. I told my kindergarten kids, I said, who on here wants to be great? They all wanted, they raised their hand. I said, let's go on three, one, two, three, let's be great. I want to be great. And um, it was so like such a blessing for me to be in that space, just even as a bus driver, being able to have some type of impact. Because even though there was a couple of kids that were chuckling, I could see quite a few of them. They were like fixated. And really, all it is is us being kingdom citizens and establishing God's order. Kids will tell you how ministry works if you pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

They may run around, they may look like they're in rebellion, but when real authority comes in the room, the type of authority that loves them, that won't just correct them but loves them, when real authority comes in the room, they're going to respond accordingly.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

And so you find yourself in a space to where you can be authentic and literally lead with the love of God. If you can do that, that is a very basic way to be able to marry your commission as a believer in Christ, preacher, worship leader, dancer, whatever, artist, and your calling, they can coincide. They can run together until God tells you, I need you more in this season, in this aspect, and having the patience enough to wait and just steward it will. I'm just going to steward. I don't want to be here at this job. I don't want to be a bus driver for the rest of my life. I don't even want to be a bus driver next year, right? Yeah. Not because of the kids. I love the kids, but what it does to my schedule. You know, I have my own reasons. However, if this is where God has me, let's be in this place and let's be present. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's so important because a lot of times we think that, you know, ministry only happens within the four walls. You know, people are are um aspiring to get a position. You know, they want to be called elder this, prophet, this, pastor, this, right? Jesus. But they're not doing the work.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Are you ready to die? You asking for things that you ain't ready to die. Like you understand what God calls you to certain spaces, right? Not only will you be separated from the people that you love the most and are most proximate to and closest to, but you also are being, it's a it's a sentence to die daily.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

So let's let's talk about that because you were recently ordained as elder, which, you know, let me tell y'all something about uh elder Todd, okay?

SPEAKER_04 35:23

Let me fix my clothes right now. You gotta be on it. Now you're about to expose me.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

First of all, I mean it's for me, it was it was a no-brainer. It was like this is the natural elevation of who you are.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Why did you say that though?

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Because I remember Todd Turnbull and Kingdom Kids jumping around like David did. I mean, he's got he has the David hop. I don't where did you even learn that? Because we never saw David. But you hop like David, okay? I even know how David Hop. Because that's the way you hop, I imagine that's how he was hopping. Amen. David. You know, so you've always been, like I said, we we were serious. We were serious about God. You know, my dad.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

You remember my dad used to dance and church. Yes. Right. Now he didn't have the dance clothes on, and my mom did. But he was a he was a deacon, right? Yeah. He served as a temple guard, he was an usher.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Did your dad have the David Hop? Yes. Okay, that's where you got it from. Yes. I believe that's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Well, it's a merger of the two, because like I dance like my dad, I weep like my mother, you know, they both are worshippers. So you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

So I I just always knew that you would be in that position. Plus, just even with our conversations, like if you're talking to Todd, I don't care what y'all are talking about, by the end of that conversation, you're gonna be ready to give an offering because he will have just preached a message to you, okay? Whatever. And like y'all could have been talking about the.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

No druidsky.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Right, no, no, you would willingly be giving an offering because you will have realized that you just sat at the feet of a prophet anyway. So you your elder, you were recently ordained, you and your wife together, which amazing that I can't wait till we have uh elder Helen Turnbull in here.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

But um You know somebody, real quick, somebody I went to her home church and they called me minister. And they said, What is your wife elder Helen? I said, Hey, well, elder Helen is right.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Listen, it's a gladly. The fact that you can do ministry together, we we're gonna talk about that, but but I want to talk about just you um stepping into the role as an elder. Um, what what was that like? Because I I think I know the answer uh just based off what you just said, and just knowing you that it wasn't something like, I feel like I'm an elder now. That this is like uh a God uh appointment that there has to be some dying to self to even walk into that. So tell me tell me about that.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Study themselves, uh themselves to be approved, um, to show themselves approved, who have honored the the um the sacred text and have stewarded God's people long before me. Um I had many examples of people who really accepted the the call to to lay their life down. And so when I was approached by this, you know, it was confirmation of what the Lord had long established before. And this isn't even the end, it's not like I've arrived at some place. Really, it's just it's it's an assignment to partner with God because there's work to do. Right. And so before making a decision like that, and you step into a responsibility like that, you have to consider the costs. And like people, like when I was uh when the when the ceremony happened, the ordination happened, you know, ever since then people have said, you know, congratulations, congratulations, and I I'm scratching my head. I'm like, what do you what do you mean by congratulations? Do you know like this is a death sentence? Like, I can never be the same ever again. I can never walk with God the same way ever again. I can never have the same level of faith than I ever had in the past, ever again. Because now it's not about me. Yeah. It never really was, but now it's not just me and Jesus and my kids, it's the Lord's church. Yeah. Right? And so when I was approached by that, you know, initially I was like, I was kind of trying to tell them, no. You know, I was like, well, what does it look like? And what is gonna be the expectation? I just um, you know, I and I'm I'm aware of my own, you know, deficiencies, you know, whether it be spiritual, you know, uh human nature, uh familial, um, financial, like all the things, you know, we always think about what we can't do in the midst of a God that says that we can, right? Yeah. And so um I thought about a lot of those things, but um I did it reluctant I did it reluctantly. I w I said yes to the process. I didn't really truly realize that it was definitely the Lord's will until I had ever until after I had already said yes to the process.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Right. So I mean you're what you described earlier, you're already doing kingdom work. You're already doing for sure. You're already doing ministry.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

That's and that's what that's what he said.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

I feel like um there's this misconception that you know you don't start doing the work until you get the title. No, the work comes I feel bad for you.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

You're just getting started.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Right. The work comes before the title. 100%, you know, and the title is really just a confirmation, if you will, or an outward um uh, you know, recognition, if you will, but you're already doing the work, you know, in home, in ministry uh in in the workplace, whatever. And so what do you feel like is different now that you are that what does this does the title bring anything that makes you feel a different in how you serve or how you do the kingdom work? I mean, you kind of touched on it a little bit just in terms of like, you know, now you're you're over or you have the Lord's church sort of with you. But what is what looks different or how does that look different?

SPEAKER_03 41:41

I mean, really, the title really is more, it does more for people than it does for me. Um like you said, I was a my wife and I were already functioning um as assets to our community of believers, right? We were already functioning that way. And we were totally content. She both and I, both of us, we were totally content with, you know, just doing business as usual, as you may say. You know, and we took joy in being able to serve God's people in the way that God allowed us and gave us the freedom um and direction as well to do. Um, but the title just simply signifies to people that need the stewardship and who have submitted to the stewardship of leadership in our in our church, um, that they know who to go to for correction, direction, um for counsel, things of that nature. And so um for me, what has changed it it it's awakened me to my responsibility, not just outwardly, but like really how critical it is for me to steward my priestly ministry. My my God There's no way I would have to do that without having And we take for granted the blessing that we have, even as American Christians, like Christians who are living America, we have the freedom to engage with God in our job. And we take advantage of it, we take it for granted. But now you got people depending on you to give them spirit filled advice. Yeah, how can I do that if I'm not praying? Right, if I don't know the way. If I don't actually trust him with my part, that part of my life, how can I tell you, go to God, and I'm holding this in my back pocket? Right. I'm trying to control this part of my life, but that same part of your life, I'm telling you to give it to God. So that is more apparent now that I can't. Because I I want to be an effective leader. I don't want just people to call me whatever they call me. That's I'm not interested in that. I'm more interested in seeing the fruit. I want them to bear fruit. Yeah. Because when I stand before him, he's gonna ask me about all of the things that he asked me to do. And he's gonna line me up against all of my works, right? He's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna address me in terms of how I handle the flock, right? And you don't have to be a pastor of a church to have that responsibility. If you have been put in any position in any community of believers, um, to where you are stewarding some aspect of that ministry, like it is the it is the expectation of the king of glory that you do it according to the spirit.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

And that, you know, what you're saying is it brings up a good point when you talk about um when ambition goes beyond devotion. Speak on that.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

This is why you have heresy in the church. I I can't come up with any other practical reason why someone who has been given the keys. Yeah, nobody nobody's out here passing out successful ministry. I don't care what marketing plan you got. When people are coming, there is some level of authenticity there. But at some point, we have fallen off, and we've resorted back to that American dream that these people gave up to go across. They don't need the podcast, they don't need the respectfully, they don't they don't need the platforms, they don't need the social media followings, the million followers, the YouTube clan. They don't need that. They don't need a beehive.

SPEAKER_04 46:26

I'm sorry when I minister, I have to have a little comedy because I be crying a lot, so you gotta forgive me.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

But they don't, they don't, they don't need that, right? Um but for some reason in America, uh we we shifted our gaze from the Holy One, the one who told us that we were more than what we even thought of ourselves. Like I'll be wanting to ask, I often want to ask, I'm trying to cut back on the slang. I often want to ask some of these preachers, like, like, do you remember when you first started? Mm-hmm. Do you remember how broken you were? You remember you used to stutter? Yeah. Remember you were scared to talk to more than five people in a room? Yeah. Now you have thousands, millions even. Now millions, because we were on the shorts, the YouTube shorts, the clips. That's how, that's a lot of people's church now. They're getting they're learning Jesus from or whatever, something from the Bible off of YouTube shorts. Right. Right? Before it was all that, you know, you didn't even think you were capable of holding something like that. And now you are gone to the point to where you are literally abandoning the secret place, not even preaching scripture from the Bible. You're like a glorified motivational speaker to get people to believe that they can do something that God never called them to do. Wow. That is you're you're gonna answer to God for this. Yeah. Ambition, when it goes beyond devotion, it is such a dangerous place. I believe that's how heresy comes. I believe that's how error, uh, it's that's a birthplace for the that's a a doorway for the doctrine of demons to come in and confuse a generation that really is trying to hold fast to the coattails of God. Like they're really trying to go after him. I mean, there are, let it be said too, there are young people, many, many, many, many young people who are sincerely running after Jesus on college campuses, yeah, in high schools. We have people who have graduated from college, started families, and then gone back to high schools and feeding and giving them the gospel in the public school system, not in the the hoyy-torty, you know, tucked away, you know, nothing against suburbia and private school, but you know, they're in the trenches, yeah. Getting the ones who really never got it. But now we on YouTube, we're on Instagram, we have all the we have all the uh the the lights, the camera, the action, the the bells, the whistles, you know, um the incre the financial increase, you know, um the allure of the spirit of this age has literally gotten people's gaze off of the Holy One and onto the opportunity. Yeah. Opportunity. Right. Like, and I'll and I'm serious, like people are literally giving their lives to things that God never designed for them. And now you you're wondering why people are so confused about what the purpose is or why what they're giving their their team more no more sleeping for something that ain't working.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Right. So how does how does that translate in what and how you're raising your children? Because you mentioned you got five kids. How are you keeping them focused on kingdom purpose when you know they're growing up with social media? The thing, the thing about our generation, uh, which I was talking to a friend about recently, is that we we lived, we are living in between these two realities. We're the last generation that knows what it's like to be without technology. Yep. Right? But we now know what it is to have technology. Our kids will never know a world absent technology. And so we are living in this space where we kind of have one foot over here, another foot here. Now, some will say, okay, that gives us this balance, this ability to be able to balance things, you know, because of of the dichotomy of what we grew up in.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Um, but how do you encourage and instill principles in your children that will keep them focused on kingdom and not so much on what they're seeing in social media and, you know, succumbing to the spirit of this age?

SPEAKER_03 51:00

I can only testify to what I know does work because I'm not the only, number one, Helen and I are we're not the only parents that are doing this with a large family. We we're we're partnered with other families that um other families that have more children than I do, than we do. Um and multiple families in different places, in different states. We have very good relationships, close relationship with these people. And so there are more people than you think, more parents than you think that really have prioritized um the the laying of the foundation, the foundation of truth in their children's lives, letting that be the measuring stick in which they see success, as opposed to how social media would design it or define it and try to give it. So um, but my um my wife and I, you know, we decided to abandon a lot of the uh the norms, the social norms. It's normal for this kid to be able to do that. It's normal for this kid, your kids to be able to eat that. It's normal for your kids to be able to hang out with these type of people at this hour and there's for this min this amount of time. It's normal for them to go to this school and be educated by these people. It's normal for the we're literally looking at all the aspects of life and we're trying to take the word of God, our convictions that were established during our time spent with God. We have the preached word, because we still believe in the value of the preacher, okay? So we have the preached word and we use those tools to analyze all of the aspects of child rearing and how they will engage with society, or how better yet, how society will try to engage with them. Yeah. Right? So what they eat is important. How they eat is important. How they're educated. My children are homeschooled. Now, there was um unforeseen circumstances led us into that space where we had to explore that. But then, like, COVID happened, and we was like, oh, actually, this actually makes a lot of sense. And then people started sending their kids back to school after COVID, and we were like, I think we're gonna keep them here. Because we discovered a pattern. We had more influence on our children than society had. Yeah. Especially in a day and age where they're having these random people calling themselves teachers and trying to indoctrinate them. Stuff is just, you know, I won't even call them adult themes because some of the stuff they're teaching kids, like, we don't, I don't even want to be exposed to that. Right. So why? Just imagine yourself, like, as a child going through the processes of education and pub in the public sector right now. Would you even like? No. And we find it hard, and we're asking why these kids are not excited about Jesus. Because we let them sleep with the enemy or learn from the enemy for eight hours a day. I'm including the time with the bus driver who hates their job.

SPEAKER_04 54:03

And blames you, child, you five-year-old, why they hate their job. Right. Why they settled to be a bus driver.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

That's a high calling. You're the first person. You're the first preacher they're gonna see today, the first teacher that you're gonna see today, the first adult, God figure. You know, someone they're gonna attribute their your leadership to how they see God. You're the first person they see today. You're gonna be a jerk. Okay, thanks a lot. So then they experience that, then they go and learn from all of the different belief systems that are represented in the classroom.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

And then they get back on the same bus with the same bus driver who had somewhat of a great day, and then they get home and learn from you for two hours. Let alone not having dinner dinner at the family table, not sitting in the same room eating dinner. You know, they have something quick. There's the pressure of their parents having to pursue their American dream, so they may not even be home. Wow. To give them a debriefing of what they experienced all day because they're out chasing their dream. I'm I'm doing this for my family. Are you? Are you doing it out of a lack of self-identity, awareness of your identity?

SPEAKER_00 55:17

And that identity being in Christ.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

I think this is this is a good moment to bring in uh elder Helen.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

Listen, I'm gonna gladly slide over because she's a powerhouse. This woman, listen, I watched her, we were uh praying for somebody, we had the opportunity to uh to pray for someone last week, and she was praying in an unknown tongue. And so much so that, you know, we got uh feedback on a Zoom call days later from Bishop Bryan, because he had heard it his office was not far.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

He was like, But I I have brick walls, and you guys, I could hear the the sound of the spirit coming through, but I just wanted to What's What's funny is that I knew both of you and grew up with both of you at two different times. At two different times. And now it's like Well, really at the same time, just at the time. At the same time, just two different spaces. Yeah. I don't know, I don't think y'all even knew each other at that time. No. I was the common denominator. Are you trying to take credit? I I am. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

You know, I will say this. I don't like the fact I I love you, but uh for years I was mad at you.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Why?

SPEAKER_03 56:31

Because you told me that I was gonna you remember you prophesied about the kids and sons and daughters, and you just specifically remember he said daughters, Tatalinas. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

And and how many daughters do you have?

unknown 56:45

Three.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

I mean, we just want to make sure that the word of the Lord was, you know, try try the spirit by the spirit. We want to information.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

You need people to hold you accountable. There it is. Yeah. I want to hold you accountable too. You know, it's raining because the earth is groaning for this daughter to come back home.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Please, please let's bring a hella police. Because he's trying to get me to move to Columbus.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

Yes, I am. So we can have a glory gathering every week. Please.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Okay.