It Hantas Me: Part II

If the MV Hondius Hantavirus outbreak hit the US tomorrow, would we be ready? In Part II of our Hantavirus/Andes virus coverage, Mattie and Olivia sit down with Dr. Elizabeth Soda, MD, infectious disease physician and former CDC insider who spent nearly a decade at the agency before resigning on principle in September 2025. Drawing on her years working from within, Dr. Soda explains why the systems that are supposed to protect us from outbreaks like this one are in a more precarious state than most people realize. She breaks down the mass exodus of career staff, the erosion of trust coming from within the agency itself, and why, if something like COVID hit tomorrow, we would be in serious trouble. 

Also, Mattie connects the Met Gala to public health (yes, really), and Olivia runs through a packed recalls roundup. See the most recent FDA recalls here. 

If you haven't listened to Part I yet, go back and do that first...and consider getting a therapist.

Guest: Dr. Elizabeth Soda, MD. Infectious Disease Physician & Public Health Advocate, former CDC EIS Officer and staff member (2016–2025). Currently based in Italy and volunteering with the National Public Health Coalition and Fired, but Fighting.

Transcript

Sneak Peek

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 0:00

I think the thing that people should be worried about is what the Honda virus response is telling us about the state of public health right now. Right. And that's what people should be worried about. It's the loss of communication. It's the loss of our global health partners. It's the loss of staff. Because, you know, if we ever do have another COVID, we are really potentially going to be in big trouble. Yeah. I mean, the fact that the directorship now has to be approved, right, by Congress is crazy. I mean, the directorship should never be political. CDC is meant to be, it should be completely apolitical, completely nonpartisan. And unfortunately, that is clearly not where

Introduction

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 0:40

it's at.

Mattie 0:50

Welcome to Public Health Group Chat. Um, the podcast where we have proof that we have friends outside of the three of us. And you will see today in this exact episode.

Olivia 1:01

I'm Olivia.

Mattie 1:02

A nd I'm Maddie. All the views expressed on this podcast are our own. If you want to get in touch with us, tell us what you like, what you don't like. If you have any ideas for episodes, if you have any ideas for public health and pop culture, if you want to see how Maddie can work her magic and tie anything into public health, um, you can find us on Instagram, sometimes on TikTok, not really. Our email is publichealthgroup chat@ gmail.com.

Mattie 1:24

So part two, it haunts me. Another week, another outbreak. And once again, the systems that are supposed to protect us are just the story as much as the virus itself. Today we are sitting down with Dr. Elizabeth Soda, MD, to talk about what actually is happening to the infrastructure of American public health. Post-COVID, pre-doge, and an under an HHS has a lot of people deeply concerned. We're asking, what's been lost, what's at risk, and what is the road back? And this is our part two of our Hontavirus slash Andes virus coverage. And if you haven't listened to part one yet, go back, go pause this, go back and do that first.

Olivia 2:00

Um, why are you here?

Mattie 2:01

Why are you here? Who sees a part two and is like, I'm just gonna start there crazy.

Olivia 2:05

You should go to a therapist if you're here and you haven't listened to part one.

Mattie 2:08

Just go outside, touch grass, think on that, and then come back and listen to part one. We build the foundation there so that everything we talk about today actually will make sense. So let's

Interview: Dr. Elizabeth Soda

Mattie 2:18

get into it.

Olivia 2:21

It's mostly me mispronouncing things and then deciding do I want to keep it in?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 2:25

Yeah, I do the same though, and I was so appreciated that, but I so appreciated it on your last episode.

Olivia 2:31

I can't say archipelago. I literally re-listened to it and I was like, I'm gonna leave it in just for the content, but I hate this. So good though.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 2:40

It made me feel good. I'm like, I'm not the only one.

Olivia 2:44

So bad. It's so bad. Well, um, Dr. Elizabeth Soda, an infectious disease physician and public health professional, she has spent nearly a decade at the CDC before resigning on principal in September of 2025. She now lives in Italy, which we're all incredibly jealous about and we have to talk about. Um, and she advocates for protecting and rebuilding the public health systems in the United States and potentially elsewhere to ensure everywhere, everyone everywhere can live healthy, full lives. And so we just want to welcome you, Dr. Soda, and um, you're okay with us calling you Elizabeth moving forward is

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 3:21

100%, please.

Olivia 3:23

You know, you never know. And so we just wanted to thank you so much for joining us. And we're gonna be talking a little bit about, you know, the restructured plans and hopes for the United States and also just why we have to restructure, because clearly there's been some things going on the last year.

Mattie 3:38

Yes. So, so I always love hearing people's history about why they chose infectious disease. So, can you share a little bit more about what was the spark that made you want to be an infectious disease doctor and also a physician, too?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 3:50

That is a really good question. I mean, I guess in for background infectious diseases, right? It's like the love of germs in some ways, right? Like it's being fascinated by, you know, microbes. Um, and in some ways, like my mom, God bless her, is a total germophobe. And so it just sort of like played like a very like big thing, I think, as I grew up. Like she was fascinated by them, which, you know, made me, I think, become fascinated by them. I didn't always think I was gonna be an infectious disease doctor. I actually thought I was gonna be a kidney doctor at one point. And turned out that just wasn't as fun. So I think infectious diseases is just it's fascinating, right? Like the organisms are fascinating, but then it also brings in human behavior and psychology and um really some of the best and worst of human beings, right? So I, you know, I think it's a it's a fascinating field.

Olivia 4:44

Yeah, retweet kidneys are boring.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 4:49

I'm glad I have them, but kidneys are boring. No, but I get that. Like I feel like infectious disease work is so dynamic, and so you never know what you're gonna see. You it's always like kind of just could can be like really interesting all the time. It's never like the same old, same old. Exactly. Exactly.

Olivia 5:07

Did you work in uh like a hospital setting before going to the CDC?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 5:11

I did, yeah. So after I finished my training, I actually was in um a hospital setting for a couple of years. I was their hospital epidemiologist, though, as well. Um, and that's where I kind of learned about public health and you know, turned out like, oh, this is actually really cool. And after doing that, I was like, well, maybe public health is the way to go. And, you know, I was fortunate enough to actually get into their epidemiological intelligence service. I can never say that. The EIS Fellowship in 2016.

Olivia 5:38

So you're an EIS officer. Okay.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 5:40

Um yeah. So I, you know, I joined through that in 2016. Um, and you know, EIS is meant to train professionals on, you know, real-world public health um situations. And, you know, that's how I joined CDC and was there, you know, until September of last year.

Olivia 5:58

Oh man, shout out to our EIS officers.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 6:00

100%.

Olivia 6:01

How long were you at the CDC?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 6:03

Almost 10 years. I left a little bit shy of 10 years, which is a little heartbreaking. I didn't quite make it to the decade, but um, you know, there was a point where enough was enough. So Okay.

Olivia 6:14

Well, that makes sense. I mean, enough is enough. But, you know, the CDC credibility has really taken a hit, whether we're talking from COVID, um, which is unfortunate. But do you think that the agency had recovered before 2025, or were we kind of like still operating on that borrowed trust?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 6:30

Absolutely not. I don't think the agency recovered. Uh, I think from from many ways, right? I think if we're just talking about general staff, right, it was a hard time, right? It was a hard time. And uh people were really burnt out. And I think it it the agency wasn't recovered from that perspective. So, you know, I think there's just the like human factor, but I think um communications, there were there was lots to be probably desired in what happened with COVID, to be honest. And I do think that CDC was really working on trying to work on communications and trust. But I think any progress that they were making, right, clearly has been eliminated uh and probably has set us back even further than when we had started. So no, I you know, I definitely don't think the agency had recovered from that. And then, you know, you added you you now add um the Trump administration and um yeah, it's just very awful.

Olivia 7:26

Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking about how important the years after the pandemic were and that that's just kind of been erased. I think there was promise that it might kind of get turned around, and then when this administration change happened, it kind of went away. And as a public health professional, going from trust the CDC, like go on, see what the CDC says, to being like, well, now you kind of have to take it with a grain of salt. We don't know if this is politicized or if this is actual data. That's also setting back the trust even more, too.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 7:56

Oh, 100%. I think trust is one of the biggest challenges CDC is currently facing right now, right? Like it is, it is such a complex issue right now with RFK and his cronies sending out clear disinformation and creating all types of confusion. But then also there are still some really great people at CDC who are still really doing the work, right? And it, but it's very confusing. And I don't know how we'd ever expect anyone of the like a member of the general public to be able to distinguish between like this is completely false and disinformation versus, you know, this is something to be trusted, right?

Olivia 8:34

Like coming from the same agency.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 8:35

from the same agency, right? Yeah. You you can't expect people to do that.

Olivia 8:39

Yeah, I was thinking about that because how do you select exactly what is coming out of it as pertinent information that you can trust? And there are people that are super trustworthy of science and have been a very big, you know, proponent of public health support, like I have of the CDC, especially during the pandemic. And then now I'm like actively being like, I hate the people that are running the CDC. And then at the same time, I want you to trust that when they put out close proximity or close droplet transmission for Hantavirus, that you follow that precaution. So it's so hard as a science communicator to be like, I need you to pick what I'm telling you to pick because I'm going through like a level of stratification to figure out if it's actually trustworthy.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 9:22

Yep.

Olivia 9:22

And that's not how it should be.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 9:24

Absolutely. Absolutely not how it should be. Yeah, it's it's really super sad that we've come to this, but I also think it um it really does boost or the importance of people like the American Academy of Pediatrics, right? IDSA, you guys, right? Or, you know, the group that I volunteer with, you know, thanks for giving a shout out to Fireboat Fighting under the National Public Health Coalition, right? But I think it's it is sort of these groups of people who have to, you know, really make sure we're putting in the work to help distill some of that information of, you know, what you can and cannot trust that's now coming out of the CDC.

Mattie 10:01

So as early career professionals, Olivia and I, we were once that like one kid who really wanted to go into public health. And you were too. Like we all have been there of like weighing the risks and benefits of being in this career field. Um, what would you tell a young person today who wants to go into public health? And is it still worth it?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 10:22

Yes, please continue to do it. It is really hard right now, but now more than ever, we need the future generation of public health. And it's it's, you know, it's super disappointing that CDC has always been sort of an educational opportunity, right? Oh-Rise, right? Um, great program, right, has been shuttered. You know, consistent threats, the EIS program, right? But I think despite it, now more than ever, we're gonna need good people who can come in, distill the science, still feel really passionate about wanting to work with other people and promote health across populations. So I know it's really discouraging, but we're gonna be in a world of hurt if people don't continue to go into public health. This won't last forever. And we're gonna need to be ready for when it's time to to enact change for sure.

Olivia 11:13

We need that energy.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 11:14

100%.

Mattie 11:16

I was so I was an ORise fellow from 20, uh like April of 2024 into uh like March of 2025. And that was like one of the big things that like the head of the branch. He was saying in a meeting, he's like, all of you like ORise fellows who are like going through this, like please remember that we're here because when this is all over, because it will be all over eventually, we're gonna need help rebuilding. And someone's gotta have to come back and help rebuild.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 11:40

You have to. I mean, you know, you guys sort of gave that figure, I think, on part one of this, but you know, National Public Health Coalition is estimating that at probably today, about 3,000 people have either been fired, have voluntarily resigned, or took early retirement. Right. And CDC wasn't a massive agency to start off with. And you have everywhere from like people who have like that really long-term expertise that were losing that institutional knowledge. Um, and then we're also then not hiring and bringing in like the younger folks to like replace that. So, you know, I mean, it's it's to me, it's a public health emergency that we're actually not talking about. Like, I I always hear this like, well, no one really cares about staff, right? Like I feel that this is something I consistently hear. Like, you know, in private business, people get riffed and this is just the way of life. But I don't think they really understand the consequences of what happens when you are destroying an institution. Um, and that you really should be caring about staff and you should be caring about the fact that there may not be people to continue to hold a torch for the future.

Olivia 12:39

So the institutional knowledge is what keeps me up at night because the people that are actual public health professionals and career professionals are in the federal government to actually help. And there's people that, like we've talked about in the pod that have that contract level, but they're actually not contract workers. They were just transitioning to another position at CDC, and then we're Rift, and we're talking decades of experience. And then that person is now gone, and we lose everything they've learned or contributed up into this point. And they're not disposable individuals in our system. They're not these political appointees coming in and just making decisions without that knowledge. So um, nobody goes into public health for money.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 13:17

Like, no, no one goes in for public no one. No one. No one. I think the other really important point is just, I mean, there are so many vacancies at the leadership level, right? Like so many of the division heads have left. Um, we haven't had like a real director, right? Like, bless Susan Maneras. She lasted whatever, her 21 days, right? But other than that, there's not been it's being run by a bunch of political appointees who literally know nothing about public health. Like the chief of staff, I think, has like a background in batteries, right? Like this is who's in charge who's helping your public health systems, but he knows the batteries.

Mattie 13:55

It's fine, we're fine, everything's fine.

Olivia 13:57

Why am I surprised? Batteries?

Mattie 14:01

If you give me like two shots of espresso in 30 minutes, I can figure out how batteries relate to public health.

Olivia 14:08

Public health and pop culture section when Maddie's like, this is how it's all connected.

Mattie 14:14

Like that guy with the whiteboard in the background from Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Olivia 14:17

That's like Charlie Day, the Always Sunny is Mattie with public health pop culture. Because today she's like, I have a topic, and I was like, okay, make it work for me. Where are we going?

Mattie 14:27

What I'm really waiting for is the day for when I do like the public health and pop culture and it's real housewives of Salt Lake City. I'm so excited to try and figure out how that it becomes public health. And just wait, just wait.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 14:37

Well, I will be excited to listen and to hear how you figure it out. And please find a way to connect batteries.

Mattie 14:43

I will. I will.

Olivia 14:45

Connects SLC to the prison system. And uh Club Fed, which is where they sent Jen Shaw. She is in Club Fed, which is what my husband calls it. He's in a lawyer, is because that's where like the really rich people go.

Mattie 15:00

Wait, that's totally it. Okay, I cannot wait to talk about the US penal system and the real households of Salt Lake City. Uh this just wait. This is gonna be like a whole episode. Sorry, we should go back to the topic at here. I love it. Love it.

Olivia 15:13

This is what it's like talking to us, by the way.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 15:15

I love it.

Olivia 15:16

Um so for the EIS officers, you've been talking about this and like the rapid response teams. And just for the listeners, the EIS officers are notorious, like known as a very difficult program. Usually about 50 people a year get into it. You have to have a medical or doctorate level degree or a vet degree to get into this program. PhDs are also included. And they were um historically the frontline response for infectious disease outbreaks or outbreaks. And they also get like matched with um local public health, state public health. And sometimes it's not like, you know, boots on the ground sexy. Sometimes it's just about building capacity in rural areas. I think that's how their marketing is sexy, but the actual work is sometimes not. So where does it stand today? Do you have like insight into what that capacity actually looks like for UAS?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 16:05

Yeah, I mean, I think the EIS class was, gosh, I don't know if they were threatened to be fired three times or two times. It was at least several, yeah, it was at least several times that they had been threatened and, you know, are still holding on. You know, I know that they just matched the new class, but the class numbers are smaller. They, you know, whoo, I can't imagine trying to be an EIS officer right now. I mean, last year the EIS class joined and were immediately put in lockdown when somebody shot at CDC, right? Like that's the reality. And um, you know, it's I think it'd be really difficult to be an EIS officer right now. I give people a lot of credit for still doing it and and trying it out. But, you know, again, your CDC is a constant state of chaos, right? Like you don't know what is up or what is down on many days. And, you know, even the sort of mentors that were available to me, right, to sort of guide you and and to help you learn, uh, I'm sure a lot of that's also missing. So I think it's I think it's tough. I'm really happy people are still interested in doing that program. It's just such an important program, but I'm confident it's not the same program that I found myself fortunate enough to join.

Olivia 17:17

Do you know if they're involved at all in the Hantavirus outbreak response?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 17:20

No, I don't know how many EIS officers. I'm sure there are, particularly ones who are, you know, assigned to the high consequence, you know, pathogens, but haven't heard a lot of chatter about that one on how many EIS officers um are actually involved. Of course, before times, I think they would have played a huge role in that. I mean, clearly they played a huge role in things like COVID.

Olivia 17:40

Gotcha, yeah.

Mattie 17:41

Yeah. So we've discussed the fact that a lot of the CDC's capacity has been reduced and it's been altered and changed and it's gonna cause a lot of consequences. And I think we're starting to kind of see that firsthand now. But so a lot of this federal dysfunction is pushing more and more burden, it seems, onto the state and local public health departments. And those have always been underfunded, but they've always done so much work, especially that boots on the ground work for like directly towards communities. Can they carry this burden? And like, do you also think that this federal dysfunction has pushed more burden onto them?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 18:15

Of course it has. Right. It has to. You see what's attempting to happen in some regions within the country, right? Like California is trying to like do their own thing now, right? And there are sort of these coalition of states in the Northeast, right? But they shouldn't be having to do that, right? Like the CDC can never force them to do anything, right? Like they don't have that power. It's only local and state, but they are sort of that like major coordination center, right? Like they exist so that you don't have 50 different states doing 50 different things. Um, and now the health departments are having to take on that burden. Um, and I think there's also the, you know, sort of discussion of what the funding issues are, right? I mean, I think it's been complete chaos. I know health departments had to lay off staff through some of the rescission of money. You know, there's the whole discussion about removing DEI. You know, you're already you're putting such incredible increased burden on what you guys have exactly said. Like they're already so overburdened. Um, and now they're having to pick up the duties of the federal of the federal agency and then sometimes have to be openly against what the CDC is saying, right? And that's also dangerous territory for them to be in. So, no, it's making it much, much harder for state and locals.

Olivia 19:38

And we lost a lot of those individuals during COVID. There was so much burnout, not even just at the federal workforce, but we saw a ton at state and local public health agencies. And so the idea that they're at back at capacity is not possible. And so to think that they're already taking on this challenge, and then now they're having to figure out what to do on their own, like that's wild.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 20:01

And again, something I don't think people are talking enough about, right? The burden that this is placing on state and local health departments who are directly responsible for you, your health, r ight?

Olivia 20:12

Yep. Exactly. You know, the WHO is responding to the Hanta virus outbreak right now. And so clearly um we're not as involved. The US is potentially being left out from critical information coming from the WHO, or at least initially, it's a clear negative impact of leaving the WHO, which we did in early 2025. Um, do you see any other consequences from us not being the lead in, you know, surveillance and response to infectious disease globally?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 20:39

I think it has it has huge consequences for Americans and the world in general. I mean, exactly what you said, right? Like for better or for worse, um the US always played a large role in the World Health Organization, right? Whether that was through funding. Um, so when you lose funding, right, less programs are going to be able to happen internationally, which is a problem. They've also gave staff, right? There were people who were seconded to work at WHO areas throughout the world. You're, you know, you're losing that. Um exactly like you said, like we're sort of losing our position as sort of, you know, any kind of influence we may have over health policy. You can argue whether that's good or bad, right? But we no longer have that position. And so that's gonna have real consequences for the American public, right? In terms of timeliness of information, response time. Um and it's just it's really sad. Like you're losing a good friend, right? Like on the personal level, I've worked with so many amazing WHO staff, right? We've worked hand in hand on some really challenging outbreaks together in some really challenging spaces. Um, and it's really good to have that co coordination um and to sort of lose that friendship. How Imperfect it may or may not be at times. And I think we're seeing that with Hauntivirus right now, right? Like I think WTO has done an amazing job. And, you know, I give them a lot of credit for all the work they're doing. And it's very noticeable how different CDC has played in this, the role it's played in this one.

Mattie 22:17

And also like how much work the WH O has put in with losing one of their top funders, the US. So like for context for the listeners, I think the US was the major funder of the WHO, correct? Like the number one.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 22:30

That is my understanding as well.

Mattie 22:31

Losing. Yeah. So losing that and still being able to put on this response and function it like again, across the board, just understaffed, underappreciated.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 22:44

Yeah.

Mattie 22:44

Oh, yeah. So still being able to do that without this.

Olivia 22:48

You know, thinking about clearly the CDC's response this time is very notably different. What have we seen in the past, if you can remember? Whether you were when you were in EIS, or if you can think of like, you know, if you were at the CDC during Ebola, for instance, like what was the difference between our inclusion versus now?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 23:07

I think communication is one of the biggest notable changes right now that I'm noting, right? Like I feel like CDC has been relatively measured and not very vocal, right? About a situation that clearly a lot of people are very anxious about. And I think without a doubt, communications has suffered greatly under this administration, right? Like it's being so tightly controlled by HHS. I think that has been like a notable difference. I also think we would have had more, you know, quote, boots on the ground, right? If we were in a different time. It just, it just seems like there's a vacuum happening right now, right? Like clearly people are working hard. I don't want, I don't want like to give that message at all. There are good people, I know some of those good people who are currently working on the response and they're working really, really hard in the United States, uh, at the CDC, right? But it's really hard when the people above them are not allowing them to really do or express what they need to be expressing, I think to sort of help help with this outbreak. And you know, and then again, you know, my understanding is there are communications happening with WHO, but I'm sure it's still not the same. Yeah.

Olivia 24:19

And the silence is kind of pretty deafening too. 100%. Because when you're silent and you even if you don't know something, being able to say, we don't know this yet, but we're actively looking to answer that question, and that's risk communication strategy that's been done forever. And it we know that it helps people feel a little bit more comfortable. Without that, you have misinformation and disinformation just taking that space.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 24:41

100%. Like, how is ivermectin coming back into the picture? Like, I would love you guys to do the deep dive on ivermectin. Like, how what how did an ivermectin become a thing? Does anyone know? Do you guys know?

Mattie 24:52

Like, why I don't know. I don't know. I have a friend who works in like the animal health space. And so she has worked with livestock and stuff before. So when it's like the ivermectin stuff started coming out during COVID, she was like, what is happening to the animals? And then she saw and she's like, oh my God, everybody, please stop.

Olivia 25:11

It just, yeah, no, we should do a deep dive into that because it just doesn't make sense how it's the thing that people go to. And also, how can we shift it so they're actually like focused on vaccines? How can we shift them to love vaccines if they love ivermectin? You know what I mean? Like what is happening here? We need them to hate something else that we don't like and then shift them to vaccines as the answer.

Mattie 25:30

Seriously. I saw the reel and it was like, we just need to rebrand everything to make it sound more appealing. We just need to rebrand ivermectin to be bad for humans because it's not meant for humans and vaccines to be good. You know what I mean? So yeah, I don't know why ivermectin became the hill that everyone's gonna die on.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 25:48

I also think though there is a level of like failure of communication within public health, right? Like I think there is, like, I think we have to own up to the fact that we haven't always done the best job of communicating. Like I think there's always been sort of this idea that like, we know the science is true. Um, we know that vaccines work, we believe they're safe and effective, right? And clearly those messages have not really reassured people or fully reached people where they're at. You know, I also think that by not also leaning into more things like social media, right? That's also been to our detriment. Um, and and the fact that I think CC, I don't know if you guys ever remember this. There was uh they did a campaign with the ticks on the poppy seeds, you know, the poppy seed ticks on like like I love that. Like that's the kind of communication we need, right? Like we need to be communicating to people where they're at.

Olivia 26:38

Um and have you seen the Illinois um state public health?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 26:43

I actually worked for IDCH.

Olivia 26:45

Oh, you did?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 26:46

Yeah. So I was I was actually seconded to them from CDC. Um, so I was with them for about a year and I was so excited to see what they're doing on social media. It's very exciting.

Olivia 26:57

They are taking over. It's like Yale Public Health School and then also them. They've just really run with this idea of using memes and being a Gen Z into public health. And I kind of love it. I love the idea of taking cultural relevance and strategies in communication and doing that in public health.

unknown 27:12

Yeah.

Mattie 27:13

It's like you said, it's like we're meeting people where they're at. And that's where a lot of people are at. Because I kind of think like older generations, maybe not so much a lost cause, but it's harder to appeal to them, especially through social media, just because they're just not really on it. And so then it's like the majority of people who are on social media, that's that's where they're at. They like the memes, they like the funny stuff. So it's meeting people where they're at and trying to get them involved in a way that is appealing.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 27:36

Yeah, because we can educate through memes too. Like my kid, my kids learned a ton through memes, you know, like so. I I agree. I think we haven't spent enough time on it.

Mattie 27:46

If you want to tell us your thoughts on like hantivirus in general, the hantivirus outbreak response, things like that. That would be really great to hear your opinion.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 27:54

Yeah. I, you know, I guess first of all, I learned, you know, also being from Colorado and my mom being the German phobe, right? Like I remember learning about Hantavirus when I was very young. Cause I'm sure like anyone right from Colorado has like has heard about it, right? And I remember thinking about it as a, you know, a medical student in Denver, and you know, you never saw it, right? Because it actually isn't that common. The thing that I want to say the most about Hontavirus is that clearly it is a very serious disease. People do get very sick. And, you know, I understand why there's concern, even though I think, you know, you guys have done a great job of explaining, right? The overall risk to the general public is very, very low at this point. But I think the thing that people should be worried about is what the Hanta virus response is telling us about the state of public health right now, right? And that's what people should be worried about. And that really should be more of the news. Of course, it's not, it's not sexy and it's not right, it's not the headline grabber. But, you know, I think that is actually what people should be worried about. It's the loss of communication, it's the loss of our global health partners, it's the loss of staff. Because, you know, if we ever do have another COVID, which we all hope that does not happen, but you know, it's always possible. Like, I think it's indicating that we're really potentially going to be in big trouble. And that's what people should be worried about, really worried about right now. So I think that's my general take on haunted buyers.

Mattie 29:22

With this outbreak, do you feel like this will impact potential funding for public health infrastructure at all? Now that this is happening in a time where all of this has been cut. Do you see maybe the argument or the potential that this could like bring some more money into public health?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 29:38

So I think, you know, one really interesting point to make about the money is, you know, Congress actually provided CDC basically with level funding for FY26. So, right, there's so there was this massive threat of these massive cuts that Trump wanted uh in his budget, and Congress actually pushed back, which is great. I think there was a lot of good advocacy that happens around that. Um, but then I think we continue to see the fact that this money isn't reaching the people it needs to be reaching, right? So to me, that's actually one of the bigger problems is that the money is there, but somehow it's not making it out to recipients in a necessarily a timely fashion. And I think in part, this again goes back to staff, right? When you've cut a bunch of your grant management staff, how are you gonna get the money out to the people who are supposed to be getting this money? So I think it just becomes this circular, circular thing. But without a doubt, we need more than just level funding. We need a continued increase in infrastructure. And again, I think this was something that CDC was working towards, the public health departments were working towards post-COVID. Um, but all of that has, of course, been set back.

Olivia 30:46

And, you know, for DOGE thinking that we're cutting waste, you're like legitimately cutting the people that actually prevented the waste. I had a friend that was at USAID that was a fraud investigator and they cut her.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 30:58

So it's I mean, DOGE, it's just it's how much money I'd love to ultimately know how much money um DOGE has actually cost us. Yep. Yep.

Olivia 31:08

Exactly.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 31:09

It's ridiculous. Right now, HHS is saying that they want to hire like 12,000 people. Like, are you kidding me?

Olivia 31:16

You have the people waiting for their jobs back

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 31:18

you just fired a bunch of people, and now you're gonna like it just

Olivia 31:22

well, they want to hire people that that check the box that says we support Donald Trump, right?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 31:27

Like there's a whole intake. You have to like write down like what executive order do you most support? Like that's apparently now in the application. Yeah.

Mattie 31:36

All right. I have I have an answer. This one says that Doge cuts will cost taxpayers $135 billion over time.

Olivia 31:46

It's probably a model prediction.

Mattie 31:48

Yeah, that's like a model predict prediction.

Olivia 31:49

That's insane. Let alone the deaths it's gonna cost.

Mattie 31:53

Yeah. We saved 160 million, but they cost, but they actually cost $135 billion. I want to know. We talk too much about girl math. I want to talk about boy math because this whole thing doesn't make any sense. And like girl math makes sense, okay? We also shouldn't be genderizing math,

Olivia 32:15

but like and girl math is not a gender thing. Anybody can fit in girl math.

Mattie 32:19

True.

Olivia 32:20

How would you explain girl math?

Mattie 32:21

Girl math is like you paid for an all-inclusive vacation, but everything you there is free. You still pay for it, but like it's free. Or like, I want to buy a nice pair of shoes if I wear them every single day. It will actually only cost me a dollar a day. That's perfect. That's girl math to me.

Olivia 32:43

And Maddie, this is why I have you.

Mattie 32:44

I got you.

Olivia 32:45

So, knowing that you've worked at the CDC for a while and you were involved in um infectious disease work, and there's a lot of things that have been cut from the CDC, including people, but there's also like systems that those people were running. And we don't talk about what that looks like and what those systems were doing behind the scenes because they're not sexy and they're kind of like, you know, hidden behind the stage. So are there any like early warning signs or surveillance programs that you kind of know about that we've that was quietly defunded or not being done anymore that has to do with like outbreak prevention response?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 33:18

I think you alluded to this, right? Like we know we know public health is working when we don't know about it. And I think it's gonna take potentially quite some time for us to actually really start to see some of the downstream effects of some of like the cuts that they've made. You know, they reportedly left a lot of the infectious disease work, quote unquote, intact, right? Um, and so the biggest cuts at CEC have really come from our chronic colleagues, um, which is a huge problem, right? Like without a doubt, like you, you know, you mentioned like infectious diseases are can be very sexy in the moment, but it's really the chronic diseases that are getting most everyday Americans. Um, and I don't want to sell myself as a chronic disease um expert, but clearly when you cut staff from like division of reproductive health, when you cut staff from injury, right, when you cut staff who are doing all these really important mental health work, right? It's crazy. I mean, what to me, one of the biggest ironies was we, you know, underwent the shooting at CDC. And then I think it was not shortly after they've like fired all of these folks who were working on gun prevention or, you know, violence from guns, right? Like that to me is the ultimate irony. So I think from the infectious disease perspective, I think the biggest loss is coming from staff, right? The fact that, you know, when staff leave, now you don't, now you've got someone who's having to do the job of like three people who were doing it for for one person. And right, of course, you're not going to be able to keep up or respond in as timely of a manner as you would be otherwise. Um, and then of course, all the stress that has gone on with in the vaccine world, right? Which, you know, quote unquote had largely been preserved from a staff perspective, but the destruction, it's it's crazy.

Mattie 35:08

And with that too, it's seeing all of this because is that infectious disease does impact like chronic disease. So if you do get some diseases, it can cause like lifelong impacts like that. And so they go hand in hand. And then to also come from like the Maha movement, one of their pillars was chronic illness, focusing on that, all this stuff. And then they cut it all. And so that in turn impacts also like our infectious disease stuff. It's so interconnected. Public health is everything, everything is public health. And then again, the irony of all these cuts on top of that, too.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 35:44

It just makes no sense, right? Like a bunch of those chronic folks were really critical in a lot of our outbreak responses, right? I mean, you made a really good point, Maddie, right? That they're interconnected. Like during Zika, it's clearly an infectious disease, but there was a huge maternal child component of that, right? During COVID, clearly it was an infectious disease, but interplayed into schools, prisons, all of these things. Long COVID. Yeah. Environmental health, like legionnaires disease, right? Clearly an infectious disease, but it is from the environment, right? So yeah, it doesn't make any sense that you're gonna cut parts of this, and it's so short-sighted to you made a great point, right? That infectious diseases, they need each other to support each other. Plus, you'd have now less people who are able to respond to an outbreak, right? You've got less staff.

Olivia 36:33

So we're fucked.

Mattie 36:36

We are new, like sticker hat. We're fucked.

Olivia 36:41

I want to be very clear, Dr. Soda did not say we're fucked. I interpreted as we are fucked.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 36:48

You know, I feel like we are in trouble, but I I don't think the ship is completely sunk. And I think that there is still reason for hope. And I am not the most optimistic of people, to be completely honest with you, but I take solace in the fact that I see the movement of so many like passionate people now, like getting out there and like working towards making this different and better. Um, and I think you know, that should give us that should give us hope. I hope.

Olivia 37:15

That's gonna be the end of our episode. And I love it. I love ending on that because we you've only listened to one episode so far, I'm sure, but we are not positive. We try we try really hard, but sometimes it's very difficult to move really hard. Even our pa even our like good news in public health tends to be like, well, we'll wait for the shoe to drop.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 37:33

It's really, it's really hard. It's really hard. But like I would never have met y'all. Like I never would have met you guys, right? Like it's bringing people together um to make a difference. So I think that's helpful.

Olivia 37:44

There's gonna be hopefully a next election. Can't say for sure we don't make promises on this podcast, but if the next election we have an administration change in the United States, like how do we actually start coming back from this? Where do we start?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 37:58

Are we talking like midterms or are we talking like beyond midterms?

Olivia 38:01

Oh, could we start at midterms, do you think? Like if we had that, or do you should we wait for a massive election?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 38:08

Gosh, I'm gonna be hopeful here. I'm gonna put an ether, right? Like, I think we should be getting a blue wave, assuming elections, free and fair elections happen right in November. I think it it will hopefully start to turn the tides, but I, you know, I don't think it's gonna be solely enough. Um and you know, gosh, I don't know. I wish I had a really good answer for you, like assuming that we are able to completely start over again. Um, but I think that's where you're gonna need like really smart people at the table, um, including a ton of really smart community members and even people who don't agree with us, right? Who like I think we need to reimagine as a community of people what public health needs to reimagine itself at when we can start to rebuild, right? Because some things were really working well with it. I think there were some things that were not working well with it. And, you know, I don't know, may this be our opportunity to start over, but I, you know, I'm hoping we can do it in a smart fashion. Don't know if it will help. So it's not just rebuilding. I think there's an element that we need to reimagine. There are some things that really work and there's some things that don't really work. And, you know, maybe this is our opportunity to rethink those things.

Mattie 39:13

I think that's a really nice, like hopeful point, too, of like, not only can we rebuild, but we can rebuild better and stronger.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 39:21

I really hope

Olivia 39:21

that's inspired by fighting like approach, right?

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 39:25

Yeah. I mean, they're a great group, and I think that they're really working towards education and advocacy, and yeah, like this won't last forever. So what's it gonna look like? And I don't have a good answer for you, but I really I'm I'm hopeful someday we can do it.

Olivia 39:42

Okay. You're the infectious disease doctor and not like a political theorist.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 39:46

Exactly. I'm just out there treating the infections man.

Olivia 39:49

No big deal. Just my job.

Mattie 39:51

This is really great to get to like hear your perspective and your thoughts, especially as someone who was yeah at the CDC for so long and then have like feeling all of those changes and having to move in order to continue to like pursue your careers. Like, and I really appreciate you taking the time to like talk to us and give us all your thoughts and opinions.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 40:11

Thank you so much for having me, you guys, and great work. Yeah, keep up the great work. We need more people like you.

Olivia 40:16

Thank you. We're trying.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 40:18 Dr. Elizabeth Soda 40:18

Thank you so much. Again, as Maddie said, we're so appreciative of having you here and that we're we're really excited that you're in Italy and that you're able to continue working. And we send you our best in getting citizenship. And when we visit Italy, we will be visiting you. So just be prepared for that. Can I also add one more thing about Italy? Like, I love the conversation about gnocchi on the last episode,

Mattie 40:43

I'm so happy that's stayed in the episode

Olivia 40:44

I need you to tell me I'm right

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 40:47

I think you're right. But I'm so nervous about saying the word that I actually won't order it in a restaurant because I'm like, am I saying it wrong? I don't know.

Olivia 40:54

No, it's the Italian versus like the I'm from the East Coast. The Italian versus like the New York-Boston gnocchi, like even in that area, we have like regional differences in the way you say it. So probably I would wait for someone to say it in Italy and then just try to emulate that and then get back to us on that.

Mattie 41:09

Yeah.

Olivia 41:10

Because that's the final answer.

Mattie 41:11

Okay, this is the long plan for you. Okay. You be you pick a local restaurant, you befriend the staff. And then once you have befriended the staff, you can be like, Can you tell me please how to say this word? And then you know from like a local, this is how you say it. Once you like embrace that one moment of judgment, then it's good for life. Then you'll never forget.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 41:32

And so it's like you could on South, right? And then like, that's not how you say it at all, right? Like, I think there's definitely like differences. That's a good point. Panini, right? Like, panini like is a very specific thing in the US. Like, panini is a sandwich, right? Like, it's crazy. Like all the words we have co-opted from Italian that we don't say it. We're not using them correctly.

Mattie 41:54

Yeah.

Olivia 41:56

The East Coast is. I mean, in Jersey, they call pasta sauce gravy. I'm going to say this out loud to everyone. Like, that's ridiculous. So

Mattie 42:03

that gives me the ick. I'm sorry.

Olivia 42:06

It's icky. Like, what? Um, anyways, it's gnocchi.

Mattie 42:11

It's gnocchi.

Olivia 42:14 Olivia 42:14

Sorry, please continue.

Mattie 42:15

That was just really funny.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 42:18

Sorry, it was a random thought, but I did love it. Well, I love you guys. I'm so excited.

Olivia 42:24

Thank you.

Mattie 42:25

We love you.

Dr. Elizabeth Soda 42:27

It's a really good thought.

Olivia 42:29

We did it, Maddie. We can retire.

Mattie 42:32

We can retire.

Public Health in Pop Culture

Olivia 42:35

Okay. So, Maddie, that was a fantastic interview. Love Dr. Soda or Elizabeth. Since we're besties, now we're gonna go to Italy and visit her.

Mattie 42:43

That was actually such a cool experience, and she is so interesting. So it was such an honor to be able to have her on our podcast just to literally hang out and chit chat. That was so great.

Olivia 42:52

Yeah, like Italy, give her a citizenship. How could you not want to? You know, like this is a reference for her citizenship.

Mattie 42:59

If I had a country, she would be my first citizen. Kyle's number two. She's number one.

Olivia 43:06

The GDP is six dollars.

Mattie 43:08

The GDP is six dollars. There's no exports. The only imports are reality TV and coffee. That's it.

Olivia 43:20

The exports are sass.

Mattie 43:23

Exports are sass.

Olivia 43:25

Okay, so um, Maddie, tell us a little bit about how you are connecting something to public health and Charlie daying-it. So I need to know what we're talking about for public health and pop culture.

Mattie 43:36

Public health and pop culture. So we're talking about the Met Gala. This happened recently. This was like two weeks ago, a week ago, as of recording this. I personally always love the Met Gala because I think the use of fashion to make statements and also how it can kind of encompass feeling. And it's its own form of art. So I really appreciate the Met Gala because it's like a whole different expression of art. And I think that's so cool. So, what is the Met Gala? We'll start there. Each year it aims to raise funds for the Met's Costume Institute. It's a division of the museum that uh preserves more than 33,000 historical objects related to fashion. Um, the cost of going to the Met Gala, hold on to your hats, um, is it's $100,000 for an individual ticket or $350,000 for a company to buy a table inside. But the thing is, it's like just because you can buy a ticket doesn't mean you necessarily get invited. Anna Wintour used to have like final say on the guest list. So it's like companies,

Olivia 44:39

she still does.

Mattie 44:39

Cause I know she retired, but I don't know she retired from no,

Olivia 44:43

this is still her thing, I think.

Mattie 44:44

Yeah. That makes sense. Like she just retired from Vogue, but still does the um Met Gala. But yeah, so just because you can afford it doesn't mean you can go. So you might be wondering, Maddie, why are we talking about the Met Gala and how does this relate to public health? Well, this year, Jeff Bezos and his wife Lauren Sanchez were some of the like the key sponsors of the event. And so there was a lot of backlash surrounding that because it's another big tech bro coming in and sponsoring it. And then also Amazon is known for their questionable labor practices, and then most recently working with ice, and then also someone passed away on one of their shifts, and it's come out that they were told to still continue working around the body that was on the floor.

Olivia 45:26

Do you know where this happened?

Mattie 45:28

This was in like the northwest.

Olivia 45:30

Are you fucking kidding me?

Mattie 45:31

I want to say this is in like Washington or Oregon, like something like that. Then yeah, that happened. It was like a worker in the warehouses. Yeah. And I it it sounded like it was a medical thing unrelated to work, but it just happened at work, but that was how it happened. And not only that, but also Amazon is like slowly killing the environment with

Olivia 45:48

Oh, yeah. We could have a whole episode.

Mattie 45:50

Can have a whole episode. And maybe we will. So that's how this ties into public health, specifically this year. Now, last year, could I make it work? Probably not. That's why we're talking about it on public health and pop culture. So because Jeff Bezos was sponsoring this, a lot of stars like kind of rescinded their RSVPs and basically were like, just kidding, I'm not gonna come. Heart. Notably, two were Zendaya and Meryl Streep. Zendaya, I don't think, released a response about it, but Meryl Streep said that she was like too busy to come, which I'm like, I also would be like, oh, I'm too busy for Jeff Bezos. Bye.

Olivia 46:20

We love ethical queens, you know? These are ethical women. They're even if she said quote unquote she's too busy, she probably did it for ethical reasons. Hopefully.

Mattie 46:28

Yeah, hopefully. I love Zendaya.

Olivia 46:30

Zendaya definitely did it for ethical reasons. She's not she seems to have pretty solid boundaries when it comes to that.

Mattie 46:36

Yes. And I appreciate that. And I love her for that. The other part of this that I really wanted to talk about, and so this year the theme was like fashion is art. And there were some really, really good uses of that theme. So, most notably, my two favorites was Emma Chamberlain. She had this beautiful dress that looked like it was an impressionist painting. And so that was really great. And then I also like Sabrina Carpenter's outfit because she wore like film from like a uh uh Audrey Hepburn uh movie. Like she wore the actual film of it. And so that was really cool because fashion is art. Art is health. Yeah. Um, so I wanted to talk about Lauren Sanchez's dress because I thought this was hilarious. Um just just fits in her role so well. I know. She had like literally the most boring dress. It looked like off the rack of Ace's. It was giving Mother of the Bride that kind of thing. So it was it was bad. It was bad. And you have all the money in the world. And so it was the dress was designed by Scaparelli. And Scaparelli is a designer known for their use of patterns and textures and being really out there. And the designer said, I saw this somewhere, I cannot find the direct quote, but it was like the designer said that like they made it for Lauren based on the impression of her. So I love that it was like a little snub to her of like this designer who is known for making some of the most incredible dresses in the world, made you this boring ass dress. Oh my God, that's a statement. And I'm like, that is so great. We love little rebellions like that, where it's like, yeah, I'll design your dress and you just make it really ugly. And this is just proof that money can't buy you taste. You can have all the money in the world and still be dressed like you're going to your son's wedding and you got a back a dress off the rack at Macy's.

Olivia 48:17

So her dress was also, I'm guessing you're getting here, but her dress was based off of a painting because all that was the theme this year.

Mattie 48:24

Yeah.

Olivia 48:24

Was the dresses were all based off of paintings and art. And her dress was based off of a painting about a woman who's a socialite who like works her way up and is basically, I think she was a madam before. So she like works her way up in society and marries this really rich man and is like not accepted by society. So apparently Lauren Sanchez was like, I want a dress that looks like this because that's what the media thinks of me or something. That's what I was reading. I don't know if that was like an interpretation, but that is the painting, and we have to I we gotta look up what the painting's called, but it's based off of an art piece of art.

Mattie 48:57

oh, evoking um the notorious Madame X. Oh, by uh John Singer Sargent.

Olivia 49:02

But the whole idea that like she picked this designer who then like usually uses different materials and patterns, and then she just had like a basic like dress, not even velvet.

Mattie 49:14

Yeah, like you don't even know the right designer to go to. So the whole thing is just so funny to me because again, money cannot buy you taste. Anyway, that is public health and pop culture. And I love I love the Met Gala. So I don't know what that says about me, but I think it's always really interesting. I just really like the fashion. It's fun to watch.

Olivia 49:39

There is a socioeconomic part to it that makes me a little grossed out. But if you can kind of remove that, just to like look at the dresses and the outfits and try to just take it as it comes, I feel like it's not as bad. I like seeing what people decide to wear.

Mattie 49:54

Yes, I'm fully aware that I am compartmentalizing that sort of like let them eat cake vibe of the Met Gala. I'm taking that, throwing it away, and I'm looking at the fashion because I like the reasons why behind people pick what they pick. And so it's cool to see the theme and then the dress and then why the designer picked that or why the star or whoever decided to wear that too. I think that's so cool. Anyway, that's it.

Olivia 50:17

Thank you, Charlie Day, for connecting the Met Gala to public health.

Public Health Recalls

Olivia 50:21

We haven't done recalls in a few weeks. Um, there's been a lot of recalls in April and May, and we're only 15 days into May. There are so many out there right now since we've last overviewed them. So definitely recommend going to the FDA or sign up for their like monthly or weekly update on recalls because some of these are like things that I've definitely either had in my cabinet. Everything we say is going to be in our show notes and linked, but you should probably look into the dates on these things because you know some of the things you might have are still good. It's all based off of dates.

Mattie 50:51

With the dates too, it's like a lot of the stuff is shelf stable. So it's like you buy it and just throw it in your pantry and you like forget about it. So you might not realize you have it. So go check.

Olivia 51:01

Oh my god, Maddie, we should talk about the fact that I don't think we're talking about boner bears today or anything. And I walked down the other night Wednesday after we recorded, and my husband was watching John Oliver, and it was like last week's episode, and it was like on the TV about boner bears. And so the recall we talked about is also kind of made its way through culture because oh my god, boner bears, you know?

Mattie 51:23

Boner bears. I feel like we started the trend about talking about boner bears, and maybe John Oliver listens to our podcast. He doesn't, but like we can manifest this. So that's how he heard about boner bears.

Olivia 51:33

Or maybe his staff.

Mattie 51:35

Maybe.

Olivia 51:36

Or they probably just get the FDA list, like list serve. Um, but I can dream. All right, on the second day of May, A2 put out a platinum premium infant formula for zero to 12 months. It's a USA label. It has presence of a cereolide toxin, and that can produce some strains of bacteria, and the bacteria doesn't sound that great. So this is something notable. Um, there's also a lot of things recently that's not just infectious diseases, but undeclared nuts, and I'm allergic to nuts, so I include these things because it pisses me off. But like there was second nature keto crunch smart mix. They had undeclared cashews, pistachios, and cherries. Like, how do you put something out and not say what's in your actual food like that? Kind of weird.

Mattie 52:18

Like three pretty major things that are like you don't just like accidentally put that in there. Like, yeah.

Olivia 52:25

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm kind of annoyed at them. And then 5.4 .2026 Zapp's potato chips put out a thing about their dirty potato chips. I don't really know what those are, but they have potential salmonella um contaminations.

Mattie 52:40

Okay. So the next one on 5.5 is pork king good pork grinds and seasoning bottles for salmonella. My grandmother has started to do this thing because I had to go gluten-free in September of 2024. So anytime she sees anything that's labeled gluten-free, she buys it for me and like doesn't use any sort of critical thinking on whether or not I will like it, which I appreciate is so thoughtful. I really appreciate that she's thinking of me. She's like paying attention, she's trying really hard. And I love that energy. However, one of those things was apple cinnamon pork rinds from Porking Good. And I was like, I don't like apple cinnamon and I don't like pork rinds. And I just, but it was like labeled gluten-free. So she's like, I bought these for you at a craft fair and it said gluten-free. And I was like, wow. Some things shouldn't go together. I don't.

Olivia 53:27

I'll just make the statement. Some flavors don't need to be conjoined in one.

Mattie 53:33

I don't, I don't think so. And dessert pork rinds is one of them. And maybe I'm being judgmental, but that sounds really gross to me personally. So that's why I wanted to talk about this, is because I like literally saw this and I was like, I feel so vindicated for throwing those away because I was like, I feel bad wasting food and I don't want to waste food, but this is kind of gross.

Olivia 53:51

These two things should not go together.

Mattie 53:53

You should throw these away specifically because of the dates, but like, no, but like if you do get pork rinds, and if you're presented pork rinds from porking good, you can just say no.

Olivia 54:04

I love your grandma. Ok, Fisher has a southern style nuts, uh, a squirrel brand. I don't know what that means if they're for squirrel.

Mattie 54:13

What?

Olivia 54:14

Uh the squirrel brand, and it has a potential salmonella. Yeah, I don't know if they're for squirrels or humans. I did not look into it, but something worth noting.

Olivia 54:23

Um 5-7 2026, uh, wildlife seasoning. Again, don't know if it's for wildlife or not, um, but that's the company and it's flavored popcorn seasoning.

Mattie 54:32

Wildlife flavored popcorn?

Olivia 54:35

Wildlife seasoning is the company. Flavored popcorn seasoning is the issue, and it's salmonella that's the challenge.

Mattie 54:42

I was like, what is wildlife flavor? Like, does it taste like grass? Does it taste like fish? Is it pine tree flavored?

Olivia 54:50

Does it taste like a fucking rabbit or raccoon?

Mattie 54:53

Is it just bird poop in the woods?

Olivia 54:54

Or RFK Jr.

Mattie 54:56

Okay, sorry, please continue.

Olivia 54:59

Good. Um, 5-7-2026 Albrights chicken recipe for dogs. I'm assuming it's treats or something from Albrights, but it's Salmonella. Um, can't say this next one. Stolesfuss, Stollesfuss, Family Dairy. I feel like you should change your name. Dairy, sour cream, and onion cheese curds, salmonella.

Olivia 55:18

William and Sonoma coming back with the popcorn seasoning, but it's fireworks popcorn white cheddar seasoning, the salmonella. So many things of salmonella.

Mattie 55:26

Salmonella's really, I think Salmonella was getting jealous of botulinum toxin.

Olivia 55:31

It's living its best life in this administration. 5.8 .2026, Ma Cohen's Kippard Herring, potentially botulism.

Mattie 55:41

Botulism. I got it again.

Olivia 55:43

Yeah. Um, same day, George J. Howe Co. Sunflower Seeds has undeclared cashews. Noria, banana nut muffins, same day, undeclared walnut.

Mattie 55:55

Well, isn't that the whole the whole point?

Olivia 55:57

Banana nut.

Mattie 55:59

There's nuts in the banana.

Olivia 56:01

I probably wouldn't pick it up as somebody who's allergic to nuts to start, but just in case.

Mattie 56:05

You had one job, and it was to read the thing that the product is.

Olivia 56:11

Are you blaming the victim right now?

Mattie 56:12

No, not you. I'm blaming the people who made it. Blaming the the label writers, because it's like banana nut, muffin. Nut should be in it. What nut is in this walnut? Oh, yes, nut, nut, nut. Nut nut. So I'm not blaming, I'm not blaming the people. I'm blaming the person who wrote the label.

Olivia 56:28

Okay. Perfect.

Mattie 56:29

To be clear.

Olivia 56:30

Um Spring and Mulberry's back. Uh earlier, one of our first episodes, we talked about them. Their chocolate bars just generally may contain salmonella. So I don't know what's going up at Spring and Mulberry, but I like think they need to figure something out. Um, giant eagle pita chips with parmesan, garlic, and herbs may have salmonella as well 5.8 .2026 was a big salmonella day. Um 5.13 2026, Fly by Jing, who which is a pretty big company, chili oil seasonings and also like ramen packets and noodles. They're I have them in my like cabinet. Their creamy sesame noodles may have a potential peanut contamination, which pisses me off again.

Mattie 57:13

Sad.

Olivia 57:14

Yeah. Like I want to be able to eat sesame and know that I'm not gonna die. Um and then 5.12.2026, MG217 has a multi-symptom treatment cream for eczema, and it may be contaminated with staph or staffing.

Mattie 57:30

Crazy.

Olivia 57:31

Fix your eczema, get staph.

Mattie 57:32

So nothing says I want to fix my eczema, like a new a new skin infection to distract you from your eczema.

Olivia 57:41

You fixed the eczema in the first place, right? Um, IG produce on 5.14 anokie mushrooms was found positive for listeria. HH fresh trading anokie mushrooms also found positive for listeria. Looks like they may have done mass testing of mushrooms at the FDA.

Olivia 57:59

And then Hellas Measy, a golden smoked whole herring, potentially has botulism in it. Oh, fish, botulism, seasoning, salmonella, anything that shouldn't have nuts in it, nuts, and eczema cream staph. So that's what we got for you today.

Mattie 58:18

Damn. Well, botulism's added again.

Olivia 58:21

Don't get botulism, kids.

Mattie 58:22

Don't get botulism, kids. Don't do it. I can I say something that like is going to maybe sound silly as an infectious disease person. Always. I always associate salmonella with wet because of chicken, because it's uncooked. So I always think that salmonella, whatever has is contaminated with salmonella, should be wet. So when it's like crackers may contain salmonella, it like short circuits my brain because I'm like, that's not wet. Why is it there? How is it?

Olivia 58:50

Yeah, no, I think people don't remember that flour. Like uncooked flour has salmonella in it. So I think that's where that comes from for those like non-wet items is that flour usually can have salmonella in it. And that's why you don't want to eat like cookie dough when it's not cooked, right?

Mattie 59:06

I thought that was because the eggs.

Olivia 59:08

No, I think it's the flour. I think the likelihood of salmonella and eggs over flour, it could be both. I think maybe the risk of both. But from what I've heard, flour is more risky.

Mattie 59:17

Well, I'm still gonna continue to eat cookie dough.

Olivia 59:20

Oh, I do too. We're not gonna tell you to go eat cookie dough. You shouldn't do that. But also, like, you can eat whatever you want. So

Mattie 59:26

But maybe don't eat the stuff we listed today.

Olivia 59:29

Yeah, I would probably avoid those.

Mattie 59:31

Perhaps. Perhaps. This is this is public health group chat, and obviously it's gnocchi. Gnocchi. We once again want to thank Dr. Elizabeth Soda for joining us on our podcast. And we also talked about gnocchi with her, too. So she gets it.

Olivia 59:49

She gets it. Consider rating us because that's really how people are gonna find us and share this with your mom. Please.

Mattie 59:57

Or your grandma. who gets you gluten-free things, even though you have 17 boxes of crackers every time she sees it. And I can't wait to tell her about those pork rinds that they got recalled.

Olivia 1:00:08

This is public health group chat, and apple cinnamon and pork rinds don't go together.

Mattie 1:00:12

No, and I will die on that hill.