E14 Mekkin

Bad A** Doctor

Mom of two

Fire Wife

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hi, it worked. It worked. How are you? Good. How are you? Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Good. Nice to meet you too. So.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Oh no, that's okay. I wasn't sure how to send the invite to a phone. I usually send it to an email, but it it worked out. Perfect. How are you? Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, we're finally doing it. I know. I know. It took us a lot of tries. I know. I'm sorry for being a little bit flaky.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Oh, that's all good. My schedule's miserable. So get back at you.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah, thanks. Thanks. So tell me a little bit about yourself. Uh well, like related to being married to a firefighter or no, just like, so I don't know if you've listened at all, but the point of the podcast is really that's okay. It's to highlight you. It's to talk about you. I know you okay. I know you're a firewife, right? That's that's the idea. But at the same time, we are our own people. And so I like to just talk about it. Right. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah. Let's see. I am originally from Canada. So I consider myself a Canadian, even though I became an American citizen recently. Congratulations. I've lived here since I was seven in the Boston area. And I'm a family doctor. So I see I do primary care at a community health center. And then I also do hospital work, like working with residents. So I am busy.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah. It's great. I love it. That's where I did my residency. And so yeah, busy, busy, busy always. And have like, I feel like my part-time job is like scheduling like stuff because we have two kids. So I have a eight-year-old and an almost 11-year-old who go to school close to our house. And then like thankfully, parents who are close by, both parents and in-laws who like help us make our life run. But I feel like the manager of life is a big job. Right. Through the GI Bill, my husband is also back in school. Oh, really? So he's doing his, you know, typical 24-hour shifts. And then also just is like, I think he's one paper left before he finishes his freshman year of college. So it's his study. Doing it. I think he wants to do architecture eventually, but right now he's just doing classes. Yeah. But it's great. There's like a new GI bill. I don't totally understand it, but they are giving him a little bit of money and paying for everything, which feels great.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

That's amazing. Where did you go to school?

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Up in Maine at the University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Right. And that's how we have our mutual person. Yes, yes. Absolutely. You said you have an eight-year-old and an 11-year-old. Sounds like you're probably running a taxi show right now. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

People always ask, like, what are your kids into? And I'm like, they don't nothing. Like, we don't have time to like, I don't know. I mean, like, they're into things and like they're lovely, but like we aren't also like driving everyone to soccer and driving everyone to this and that because like literally it's not possible. You can't, yeah. No, I was like, I I think I would need to hire a nanny to do that. And then also I'm like, I don't totally have time to like sign them up. I'm like, oh, miss the rock climbing sign up. Shucks, like that's full. So I'm like, not I'm not thriving, but I'm gonna I'm cutting back some of my some of my position so that I can not so that I can drive them places, that's not the goal, but just so that I can like have a little bit of breaks. It's too much for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

So do you how many days a week do you work?

SPEAKER_02 3:51

I four days a week. I'm the medical director of my unit at the clinic. So there's like family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine. So I'm the medical director of family medicine. I'm gonna stop doing that because I'm just gonna do just see patients, which is still plenty of work and real hard as you do.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Absolutely. Yeah. So four days a week, is it like an eight to five? What kind of? I mean, I assume you're there a lot longer than your actual schedule.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

I mean, this is one of the days I'm working, and here I am at home talking to you. So it's you know, but I'm gonna work till I'm working a shift at the hospital after clinic. So then I'm gonna be, I'm like, well, I work till midnight on paper. I said I had to go go home early because I'm at I just added it because I couldn't find anyone. But yeah, it depends. I would say like I usually work late on Tuesdays, but I'm precepting the residence, so I can like do some other stuff while I'm doing it, which is fun. And then Wednesdays like eight, it's like realistically like eight to five thirty. There's no like if I get home at six, I feel like I'm doing a good job, which is a lot. You see patients, and then you're not like, oh, I'm just done. And everyone came on time, right? It's real, it's real complicated. That's never the case, it's never the case, and there's always more to be done. And then, you know, it's it's sort of flexible, but in general, I really only do like clinic on Wednesday afternoon, Thursday morning, and Friday morning, but then the time is like meetings and all this other jazz. So soon it won't be, and then it will just be like, Well, I got my notes done. I guess I go home. I guess I go exercise. I don't know, but I'm excited. What do I do with myself? What do I do with myself? I'm like, it's still gonna be. The funny thing is, I'm like, look and I'm like, that's still technically a full-time job. So like don't get too excited about all the things you're gonna fill your time with. Right, but you just like make dinner. Or sometimes my kids are like, you can cook too. And I'm like, okay, rude. Yeah, they're like, wow, this is good. I didn't know that you could cook. And I was like, okay, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Is he is he a good cook?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

He's a really good cook. Yeah, he's like the the other day, so he's been on the job not that long. Like, I was in med school when he was in the academy and graduated, so he wasn't he was like a later hire because I also took four years off. So he was like late 20s, I think, when he became a firefighter, which is pretty so old, so old, so old, big grandpa.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Does he do something other than the fire department?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

He doesn't. Well, now he's before. And yeah, yeah, no, he never really like found the thing. So he's like adding details right now, which do the things. I think like the reason he's going to school is so that he can find a thing that he can do that is not being a firefighter. Right. I think he's just like, I'm getting older, and there's also points in the lieutenant's exam if you have a degree that they added in Boston. And like a lot of the younger guys like went straight through, they had their military service, they got they got their degree for free, and like his GI bill was like really wonky. Like something happened with it, and they were like, Oh, well, you don't really have it's like he literally like went to Iraq, and then they came when he came back, they were like, You kind of uh like so. It was there was something about it that it wasn't like obvious for him to to do school right away. Like he's tried, yeah, totally. And now they're doing he's doing it because he's like, I'm everyone's a disabled veteran, so like I'm a disabled veteran. It would be better if I didn't work with my body. So like an architect is sitting at an office or like something where like he can do an office job. So I think his I don't know that he really wants to like stop being a firefighter, but he just wants to like have something else or or be flexible if we're like let's move and because like we there's no flexibility, you can't just like go be a firefighter somewhere else. Or when you're a Boston firefighter, you feel like you can't because it would be a big pickup.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Absolutely. I mean, they see so much more fire and so much more stuff than most other firefighters in this area. So I understand that, but at the same time, it's I think it is similar in other fire departments. Like if so, my husband is lieutenant in Natick, and if he were to transfer, he would lose his like he would lose the the ranking. He'd go back to being a firefighter, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Even like they have to like go to the academy, I've heard. Oh wow. Like, I mean, maybe if they're like if he's like literally have been a firefighter for yeah, maybe 20 like 15 years, please don't make me go all the way back. Yeah, but it's yeah, people don't realize that you're sort of like stuck where you are.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah, yeah, you commit. It's supposed to be like a career-long commitment.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

So what has your experience been being a doctor who's very, very busy, married to a firefighter who was also gone for 24-hour shifts?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

It's so funny because I think it's just like all I've ever known, right? Like I've never had kids without this 24-hour life, and I've I mean, I'm also like a little bit of an introvert, so like, you know, I I like do some recharging, like he's gone. I feel like it's like not awful for a marriage to have someone gone two days a week. You know, it's like, well, I really miss you now. You're back, I'm so happy you're back, right? Like totally chaotic, but I think like there's something about it where I also think it's made our kids like incredibly flexible. Right. Like, I mean, I used to do nights, I don't do nights anymore, but I do this like shift from like five to midnight at the hospital. So I've like forever have missed bedtime at some point. So, like between the two of us, we've just never had that thing where it's like, oh, well, this person doesn't know how to do this part of like life, right? It might look a little bit different, but like you can put a baby to bed, you can handle everything, and we both can, like, we both solo parent, which I think is different because probably some people just have like just the the wife is solo parenting because most firefighters are men. I know that's not totally the case, but yeah, I'm assuming yeah, yeah, but we do it a little bit of both ways, and then like lean on our parents a lot, a lot. Like sometimes I try to work. If he's already working, I'll be like, Oh, I'll just work too. And then, like, I you know, my parents are always wanting to see them, so I'm like, you can have him Friday night. He's working Friday night, I'll just pick up Friday night, and then you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Well, they sleep at their house.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah, so they're like super flexible, they have like really close relationships with both grandparents and they're like happy to stay there and think it's fun for now until they're like older and they're like, I want to hang with my friends, you know, it's working for us for now.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, but at the at that point, maybe they'd be okay to be home till midnight by themselves, right? When they're older. No, totally.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

I mean, we're like getting to that point where I'm like, oh, okay, so I have to leave for work. We're like out of our before school hours. I'm just gonna leave them and like you, they'll be home for like 30 minutes asleep, and it's it's fine, right? Or like there's like that, like starting to have that flexibility is like, oh, this is great.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Right, right. Yeah, that's really hard when they're younger, right? Like you can't leave them alone for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

I mean, my mother-in-law used to come over. I'd be like, okay, I have to like when I when I do a week at the hospital, I have to work seven days and like it's seven to five. Now it's a little bit more flexible, but at that point it was like I had to be in at seven, which means I need to leave the house at like 620 to like park in the garage. And even though I like live in Boston and I'm driving to Boston, it's still things wherever. Oh, sure. And so like my mother-in-law would drive over here and be here. I was like, come over for 615, you know, and she would be like, Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

That's my mom, but yeah. Yeah, well, it's her son who's the firefighter, it takes a village, right? Oh, we're villaging. We're villaging and surviving, is what we're doing. Yeah. How did you guys meet, you and your husband?

SPEAKER_02 11:47

We met dancing at a reggae club. That's fun. I I think we were both 21 at the time. I was I was newly 22 when he was 21. And we met, and like he danced with my friend, and then we like the four of us, he had a friend, and the four of us talked, and we're from Cambridge, and they're from Boston, and so they like made fun of us for being from Cambridge for like a really long time, and we're like, whatever. And then he was like, You should come over to my Nana's house for for like Sunday dinner, and we were like, Okay. And then so my friend got his number, and then I was like, Oh my god, we should call. Or like, I was like, he was so funny, and she was like, Yeah, we're we're not gonna call now. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then we went back to the same reggae night two weeks later, he was there, or he like walked in. We were like, Hey, and he was like, You never called me, and then we danced, and then like literally the rest of history that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah, wow, you've been together a long time.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah, like a really long time, over 20 years. Wild, yeah, wild.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

You think about it, you're like, you know, it feels like yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Yeah, no, I'm like, how am I old enough to have done that for 20 years? I know done anything. The other day I was like wearing a sweater, and I was like, I'm pretty sure I bought this when I was like living with the friends that I was when I met my husband, and I like texted them and I was like, remember this sweater you guys? And they were like, I was like, we all had it, and they're like, No, and I was like, Yep, you just don't have yours anymore, but I still have mine. It's great quality, obviously. How am I old enough to have a sweater for that I've had for 20 years? A sweater that's older than your children.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

I know, like twice as old. It's crazy. Yeah, so when you're in the hospital, you said you're working inpatient. What do you do? What population are you working with? Like what what or what department?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

I only do adults, inpatient, okay. Outpatient kids, pregnant women, and adults, but in the hospital, just adults. I don't like sick kids. They're sad.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, that's really hard for sure. Yeah, yeah. So I like dwell-ish. What about when you're so when you're outpatient, do you find that the majority of your patients are adults, or you do get like a good amount of kids?

SPEAKER_02 14:06

I have a mix, it's never as many kids like as I want, but I do prenatal care. And so, like when my primary care patients get pregnant, or if I do prenatal care for someone I haven't really known, then they tend to bring the kids to me. Um, okay. So then I like sort of wrap around the whole family, or I like have you know, have been taking care of someone for a while, and they're like, wait, you also see kids? And I'm like, Yeah, and they're like, Well, can my kids just see you? And I'm like, Yes, please. And so, you know, there's like a certain there's a like a time frame, but it tends to be like a two to five year window where people are like, hmm, I seem to trust you now. I will, I will bring my kids to see you, you know, like depending on sometimes longer. And then it works really well for the like the 16-year-old who doesn't know someone that well, and they're like, wait, so you could be their doctor, and then like not they wouldn't have to change. And I'm like, yes, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Um, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

So yeah, I love when I get like the the whole family when I have a little bit of everyone, and then they're like, Can you see grandma too? And I'm like, heck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

That's amazing. You must be such a flexible doctor, like to be able to go from zero to a hundred is crazy, like age-wise, that's nuts.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yeah, no, it's uh it's like a really good exercise in knowing a little bit about everything and really not feeling like an expert in anything. I'm sure you are. And then I'm a DO, so I do osteopathic manipulation all the time, too. That's like the the other big part of my practice.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

A friend of mine went to DO school in South Carolina and she was like, Can I crack your back? When she was practicing training, and I was like, Yeah. So she cracked my back and it was really easy. And she was like, Wow, oh my gosh, I did it! And I was like, Yeah, but like my back cracks just like getting up and sitting down. Like, I don't don't turn to the left and it's like and it cracked. I'm like, Don't don't be too excited. But I was proud of her for doing it, but and now my husband always cracks my back and he's like, Can you crack mine? I'm like, I can't. Like, I try, he like picks me up and he asks me to do it. I'm like, I I can't pick you up. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

It just doesn't my husband's always like willing to do mine. I'm like, no, you do it wrong. I got to his, but then like he'll be like, just like you need it. And I'm like, uh I have an appointment coming up. Like, I don't want you to do it.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

There you go. So you must have a lot of stories. Oh, yes. How many do you speak any other languages?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

I wish. I my my understanding of Spanish just from working for a really long time has been like not so bad, but I like understand a fair amount of Spanish, and I always like think I'm like, oh, I understand so much Spanish, like I got this, and then I like hang out with people who are not speaking about their chest pain or their back pain, and I'm like, what are you guys saying? So I I really I have a lot to work on. I can like speak a little bit, you know, like yeah, sticker down a deep breath, lay down, sit up. How are you? Yeah, we use interpreters for a lot. We at my clinic we have a large Albanian speaking population, which I've picked up none, no no Albanian. I know like one word, it's so hard. And then Spanish, we have interpreters too, and then what in the heck? Let me just figure out what the heck that is. Okay, sure. So annoying.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Does your husband keep his we we well we natick uses bricks like they're they get the calls with the beeps? The bri no, we don't have that. Yeah, he'll get calls while he's home, and I'm like, you're not working. Turn it off. I'm not interested. I don't care. He doesn't mean to, it he'll be coming off shift and it's still on, and then it beeps, and I'm like, turn it off. It's like a trigger final. Oh wow, really? Yeah, yeah. Did your husband grow up in Boston?

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yes and no. He was he was raised here till he was like, or I think he was born in this area, and then lived here until seventh grade, and then he went down to Florida and then came back when he was right before I met him, actually, like when he was like 20 or so. So he's like from here, but then took a stint to live in a completely different world, aka Florida.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Very different experience.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Very different. Yeah, he was like, we were like coloring states, and he was like, Really? I did that like three years ago. So he sort of stopped being interested in school, understandably. Yeah, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

So, what kind of stories do you have about some patients over in what are some fun things? Oh my god, they're not very fun.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

I feel like it's like so sad. I mean, I feel like my favorite thing that I frequently so I typically I always work on the resident teams, and I always say to them, like, what I've never seen this before. And they're like, and I'm like, I know inspiring confidence, but you know, like there's so much learning that happens all of the time. Like, I remember one awful story where a patient was like had a bone, a bony metastasis somewhere in his body, and like so we were trying to transfer him. Okay. So we were trying to transfer him, trying to transfer him, and like you know, transfers from hospital to hospital are like impossible and very rarely work. And he started to get confused and then got got confused, stood up and like broke a bone in a really uh really dramatic way. And remember calling Ortho and being like, It's broken. They're like, How can you tell? And I was like, They're like, Where's the x-ray? And I was like, don't need one. Like you could see the bone is like, and the resident was like, Oh my god, oh my god, it was like a Sunday, so there's like nobody around, and that poor person. So yeah, just I mean, I feel like we we take care of take care of a really vulnerable population at a really vulnerable time. And the nice thing about the way that our service works is that we're the goal is that we're really connected to primary care. So we we only admit people to our service who have primary care doctors in our system. And so we usually like ideally know them or have some connection. So, like all of the patients who are seen at my clinic, if they have to come to the hospital, they come to me, and then I can be like, Oh, I can get them an appointment tomorrow, I can put their labs in. Like, we can figure out how to like be creative about how to like get people out of the hospital sooner. Right. That's really cool. And how and like communicate with the PCP and be like, hey, do you know this family dynamic? Or like, do you have you guys ever talked about end-of-life stuff? Because they're looking at us like we they've never heard it, but there's stuff in the you know, so we can like sort of go back and forth. Ironically, I like haven't taken my own patients when they're admitted to the hospital, I always go try to see them, but they I feel like they're never actually on my team. Funny, yeah. There's lots of like, I feel like half the stuff we do is like trying to figure out how the system, how to make the system work in a way that it's not designed to work, which is like sometimes I'm like, did the residents learn any medicine from me? I don't know, but did they learn how to like get a patient out of the hospital to a rehab in a way that the family like I don't know, it's not like sometimes I'm like, oof, this is not is this even medicine?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

It's right, but it's interesting because you're seeing it from inpatient and outpatient.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Yeah, totally. No, I think it's a really it really allows us to well for one thing, it allows me, like when I'm in clinic, to be like, look at you, kind of walk in. You're fine. You know, like you I can see like really complex patients and be like, but I still don't have a reason for you to be hospitalized. Like I have a really good sense of like why someone gets admitted and like when they need to be in the hospital and when they're not doing great, but like they can we can do. This outpatient. And I think it's really hard when you don't work in both to know.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Which I think allowed. Like they're always the hospital's always like, how come they can discharge people so well in family medicine? It's like, because we know that we can handle a lot.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

And we know who we're asking to handle. It's us. And so, or you know, like it's like, oh, well, we told the primary care doctor this is what we need. And we got them an appointment tomorrow or the next day. And so we can sort of work within the systems because people have like really complicated lives and reasons that they need to leave. And it's always like vilifying people for being like, oh, they always leave AMA. You know, they're leaving against medical advice. But it's like, well, they have like a cat and kids and stuff to do. And like we have to, they have to go to court. Like they've got stuff going on. So we don't have to keep them in the hospital. How can we make it better?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Right.

unknown 22:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Are you happy doing what you do? Do you feel like it's what you wanted for your life?

SPEAKER_02 22:55

I really like working with the residents and I like working in the hospital. And I love primary care. It's like the system is so messy. But I feel like I can make it like if I can make the system work just a little bit for someone, I will like bend over backwards to make sure the system works. Hopefully in a way that doesn't like impact me. Like I also have pretty good boundaries of being like I don't work at home and I like you know, within the confines of the work day, if I can help you, I'm gonna help you. And so I think that's one thing I really like because the system is miserable. Yeah, I know whenever I try to access healthcare, I'm like, this sucks. Yeah, and I'm doing it from a place of like extreme privilege, right? I'm like texting a friend to be like, hey, yeah, right, you're my kid's PCP. Can we come in?

unknown 23:49

Can we come?

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Can you send them some antibiotics? But I usually try to call and do the right thing first. Oh, yeah, yeah. This was so annoying.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, yeah. I also feel like it's a hard time to be in medicine right now. Oh. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah, I mean, everybody's like already looked up their symptoms. Chat GPT told me this, and also like Maha told me this, and uh, you know, from every angle. I think that the my job is easier when I'm seeing my own patients. Okay. And so I've already, you know, I've been I have some, I so I worked at a community health center for five years before I came to the community health center I'm at now. So 10 years total give or take of being a primary care physician. And I do have, I don't know, like 30 or 40 people that came with me from the other place. So, which is like the best. I'm like, oh my gosh, I've known you for forever. Like, you know, you're 12, and uh, or there's like, you know, like eight-year-olds, and I've did the prenatal care of for their mom, and like so there's feeling that I'm that are like so like, you know, there's no it's easy, right? Not there's nothing that's changed, you know. They're like, Well, I trust you and I want to know what you think. And not that like the system should be that I'm have all the answers, but just that, you know, like that. I don't think that that like patriarchal system is good either. But I am not the patriarchy, so it's fine. Right. But it's yeah, I I would say like if I was doing urgent care or seeing a lot of people when I see people that I don't know, it's like way more complicated. And then I've also, you know, I mean, vaccines are so so complicated and like fraught these days, and people are making decisions in prenatal care. We're seeing a lot of people make decisions about like in prenatal care that really not great, or like more and more people refusing vaccines in prenatal care. And we don't, you know, I mean, I have one patient who I remember she was really worried about she her first kid had her first set of vaccines, maybe like the two-month shots, and then she's she got onto the internet, and this was like five years ago. She got onto the internet and got really worried about vaccines. Oh no, it's probably like seven years, she's older now. But so she's she stopped vaccinating her kiddo, and I just like kept talking to her and kept talking to her, she's from my old clinic, she came with me to this clinic. Her child ended up developing autism, so not related to vaccines, right? Because she didn't get any vaccines, and I was like, okay, so let's vaccinate now. And so now we vaccinate, and she vaccinated her second child. But like, I think you know, we were I was able to just stay like obviously I'm not gonna stop seeing you, like so we keep going, yeah. Eventually, with that trust, yeah, we get somewhere, but it's it's not like I don't know, there feels like a lot of like contentiousness of like I see a lot of stuff on the internet that I'm sure you see too, where it's like, well, you have to push your doctor for this, you gotta push them for that. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like I'm not the I don't make the rules here, I don't make the system. So like if I need to push something, I'll push it. But I've like had people who come in, they're like, Yeah, so like I think you really need to push for labs. I'm like, well, guess what? We don't have to push because I think that you should get labs, right? Like, we we don't have to be on two sides, like I'm on your team, right? Like, how what what did you what were you thinking when you made this appointment? Like, what do you need? And so sometimes even you know, it's just like partnering and being a human, but it's tough, yeah. Yeah, or push for an early mammogram. And I'm like, well, you can't because like I don't make those rules, but like we're also the healthcare system is actually for everybody, not just for like one person, right? Which is like really hard. I mean, I feel like that came out with COVID. I'd be like, I really think you need this COVID vaccine, but I actually don't think you need it, it's actually for your grandma who you live with, right? And people will be like, Oh, it's not for me, it's for everyone, you know, and like nobody is thinking about everyone. Yeah, yeah, like it's hard to think of like health and like health, exactly greater good. Yeah, no, that's crazy. Right. Oh my gosh, I remember what I was saying before when I was like that. My husband is like the stereotypical firefighter because he's like amazing cook, good with cooking with everyone. And it was that like everyone, I don't know if they ask your husband this or ask you this, like, oh, does he rescue cats? And he was all like, No, like he's never rescued a cat, but then recently he rescued a kitten, and I was like, Oh my god, you've done it! You can retire now. You've rescued a kitten. He said that like it was like the cat was in a tree and come down, wouldn't come with and like someone else tried to get it out and they wouldn't come. And he said that like he went up there and the cat was like, I'll go with you, and like you know, like scratched the hell out of me. Of course, he's like allergic to cat. Oh no, now you've rescued a kitten and you can cook.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

That's it. So, like, we're good. Problem solved. Stay at home, dad. You are. That's funny. My husband has never rescued a cat, but one of the other guys on the shift did, and I think they they did not let him live it down. There were like pictures of him holding the cat that they put on t-shirts, and it was just all over social media, which is crazy. Like, they love to tease each other that way.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

So it's like once a decade a cat gets rescued, and it's like, make sure we live like really dig into this.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Never let it go.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Never let it go, totally.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Well, speaking of the typical firefighter, or I should say stereotypical. So you are clearly a very strong independent woman, F the patriarchy, right? Yeah, yeah. But he is a Boston firefighter. I imagine a tough guy. How does that go? How is he stereotypical in that way? Is that something he sees at work? Tell me a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Oh, yeah. Well, so the favorite thing that I the like dynamic we have is I feel like I'll be like, like going on a rant about something, you know, like related to medicine or women or like something, you know, where I'm like sort of like being like, and this is why what everybody is talking about is BS on the news and all this stuff. And sometimes he'll like text me and be like, what did what was that thing you said? Or like whatever. But like, and so he like listens, and I think that, you know, I'm like, I don't know that I'm really getting like, did was he listening? Unclear. Maybe I'm just talking to myself. But then he goes to work and he's like schooling everyone at work nice on the thing that I was like going on a rant about, and I'm like, yes, there we go. So I feel like he's like a he's a little bit of a plug, like or uh he's a plant, but he's he's doing strong work. He is um it's good, maybe not your typical firefighter. Like, you know, he's a I wouldn't say he's like the most liberal person in the world, but he's more liberal than most firefighters, and he like he's a black man in a mostly white department where Fox News is on all the time. And so he already is coming at it from like you're all wrong and awful. And I mean, like he's got like really wonderful co-workers and people that he really connects with, and I think he also like I think it's really important to like know that humans are really wonderful no matter what their beliefs are, and so I think like there's so much like isolation and like bubbling that happens where people only talk to people who have the same beliefs as that, and so the fire department is like one of the last places where you're seeing like lots of different folks be together, yeah. Yeah, and so I think I think it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

That's great. Do you think either of your kids is interested in either medicine or firefighting?

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Or if they're not medicine. Well, I mean, I feel like like my daughter has friends who are like, I want to be a doctor, and my daughter's like, I don't. I'm like, cool, cool. I think they're just like seems like you work a lot.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

And I'm like, I do.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Yeah, they're like, guys, we need you, so thank you for doing it.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I feel like my son is probably not that interested in being a firefighter. Yeah, no, I don't think either of them are like, we want to be like mommy or daddy. They're like, want to be like my my son says he wants to be a marine biologist, and my daughter wants to be an engineer. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

I'm telling you, I think we should just train our kids to each do something like one can be a lawyer, one can be a doctor, one can be a dentist or whatever, and then you just like you have the in, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Oh, yeah, good. I will I remember like there was a few years ago my son was like, so what person gets paid the most? And I was like, mmm, he was like, or and then and I was like, Well, that's not really how I would make your decision, you know, like it should be something that you like want and then that you like feel passionate about, or like maybe something that's like what helps the world. And he was like, Hmm. And then like two years ago, he was like, Do teachers make a lot of money? And I was like, Nope. And especially not for the work that they do that is so valuable. And he was like, I'd really like to have summers off. That's like you and me both, kid, you and me both. So wouldn't we bother it? Yeah, but I guess I'm gonna think of generally like I mean, my husband is around a lot more than I am in terms of like picking up, dropping off, making dinner, doing like he's either all the way gone or he's all the way here. And so I think that they think that like at least what he has, he has some time, but it's always like, oh, you're working. I'm like, so is he? It's just that when he's working, he's gone for 20 he's working while you're sleeping. It's not fair, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Right. Why do I get punished? Yeah, right. It's always mom's fault. Yeah, well, it's life. Do you feel you mentioned that he's black? Do you feel like race plays a big part in either his career or your relationship? Or do you feel like no, it's just what it is?

SPEAKER_02 34:20

I mean, I think race plays a part in everything. So I'm not gonna be like, we don't see color in our family because we see it all the time. Of course. I mean, like, I think it it there's like parts of it that are like important in everything that we do, and then there's like plenty of times where it doesn't come into play, but it probably comes into play like in ways that I'm not, you know, I am a white woman, so I'm not thinking about it. And and then my husband is like, well, actually, yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

And so I'm forever learning, and you know, and we're all learning together, and you know, raising children that are black but quite pale for yeah, and and trying to teach them like what it means, and yeah, um so in a way, same as how you kind of show him, you know, like your perspective as a woman. Sometimes he probably has to remind you of his perspective as a black person. Oh big time, big time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

And like, or you know, like when you know, it's really hard figuring out like how you want to raise children and like what your values are, and you learn a lot when you're especially, I think, a young parent. And I'm sure that's gonna like rear its head a lot when the teenage years come. We're sort of like in the sweet spot, but like he had to be like, no, like our son is a black boy, and he is gonna be treated like a black boy in school, and that means that his manners need to be better than any white boys. And I was like, But yeah, yes, right? It's like you want it, no, but it should be fair, it shouldn't, yeah. It's like, well, but it isn't too bad. It is, and so like he needs to know he's also like 10. Well, he's gonna be 11 next month, and he's like five four, so he's also like huge. And so like but people probably assume he's older, but yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

And they expect he's older, and that's true, yeah. We my husband is blonde and blue-eyed, and I'm Arab, and very much learning a lot about what it means to be Arab in the US. And I'm very pale and light-skinned, and my kids are blonde and light-eyed, and I it's just so important to me that I don't let them fly under the radar. I want them to understand diversity and to never let that be you look white, and technically, depending on what census you're looking at, they might be considered completely white, but like Arabs don't consider themselves white generally, right? Yeah, so I'm like, you're half white.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

If you're halfway then, yeah. Even though you look you know, like and you're probably like when you fill out those, like when you fill out the like what is your child's race? It's like there's like mixed, some some things have mixed race, uh-huh, and a lot of things don't. And then it's like, well, but they're not, they're not white. I mean, they're a little bit white, but they're not white. So I I always, yeah, I always say they're black.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Yeah, they make sense. Do people ever like do they look like you just a little darker, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Do people ever get used or the sun has like blue my blue eyes? And like in the summer, they are quite a bit darker than me.

unknown 37:48

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

I mean, they're very obviously not white to me, but I'm like, there's so many stories. Like when my son was like five weeks old and we took him to this like Midwestern Canadian town that my family is from, and like the little old white lady is like, Oh, what a beautiful color, you know. Like they they didn't see my husband, but it was mostly just that he didn't look translucent. And I was like, I know, right? He looks so nice, right? Like, like my babies are kind of translucent, right? And so, like, they're like, He looks so healthy, you know, like, but they like couldn't really piece it. They're just like, Oh, so such beautiful skin. Wow, like just with me. Um, and my husband definitely like, I mean, my son was like pretty pale and his hair wasn't curly yet when he was six months. And my husband always tells a story about being on a train, and like I was a resident, so like my husband was like, you know, putting miles on that stroller, take him on the train, take him to the bar, like, do anything to make this kid stop crying. And so he was on the train somewhere, and this woman was like, Oh, what a beautiful baby! How did you get to watch him? Like, sort of like, what? And he was like, I think that woman never said anything like that to anyone else because my husband didn't sugarcoat anything, but he she was basically like, Why are you watching this white, this white child, blue-eyed child? And he was like, This is my son. My son, right? And I mean, like, I think that there's so many ways that families look and how children like can look, and even between children. So I think that like I haven't had a ton of experience. I had a few where people are like, Oh, that's your son, or that's your kid.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

I'm like, Yeah, but not a ton. One thing I like to ask firewives, even though the point of the podcast is to highlight you, but what has been the best part of being a firewife for you?

SPEAKER_02 39:41

So it's interesting. I remember like when I had this idea, right? You always think like you know what it's gonna be like. That's what everybody's been talking about. Oh, really? That's so funny. Yeah, like I had this idea that, and I remember like going to his graduation, I was like, I'm gonna meet all of these like women, and then we're gonna be like best friends, and we're gonna be like, we're gonna be like a family, sort of, and that I didn't meet anyone that became part of my family at that day of graduation. Like I thought it was like gonna happen right away, and then I like sort of stopped thinking about it, but like there is a really like I think there's like my husband's coworkers are not just his co-workers, yeah. Like they really are family, and like I mean, like they're literally going into burning buildings and supporting each other. So, like, and I know that if anything ever happened, like whether it was related to a fire or not, there would be this community that's there, even though they're not like I don't like have brunch all the time with this these group, like there's like really wonderful women that I see maybe like at the Christmas party, and there's like you know, the kids' Christmas party at the firehouse, and and sometimes we go to dinner, and like so. Sometimes we really don't see each other a ton, but I really do like it, does feel like they're more than just like my husband's co-workers' wives, yeah. So, right, and so I think there's like that that sense of family really is true. It just wasn't maybe what I thought it would be. Like it's there, and I think it's real. It's one of those things where like, you know, you don't see your family for a while, but you're still gonna like if anything were to happen, you like, I got you back.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

You'd be right there, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

So that makes sense. I mean, but yeah. I wonder if if for some people who like you said, there's a lot of families where the wife kind of stays home because that's just the way the fire schedule is set up. And for them, they probably they are able to make that community a little bit more, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Meanwhile, yeah, I think some folks definitely like get together probably more.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Right, but you're you're working, yeah. And you have your own community at your job too. So even though you're still part of it, it's maybe not the only community you have. So not all your eggs are in that one basket.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Yeah, but I know that if I ever needed anything. Of course, yeah, yeah, and like vice versa, if anyone ever needed anything.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

For sure. What's the hardest or worst part of being a firewife, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 42:16

I mean, I've I just like really don't try, I try not to think about it. Like just the risk, right? And I I think there's like the acute risk. There's the like, oh, there's a fire and something bad could happen. And then there's also just the like, we don't know what you're breathing in, the long-term risks of like, is our is your retirement not gonna be hunky dory? Are you gonna get one of those like really weird gnarly cancers that like one of my husband's co-workers just got diagnosed with some like really gnarly cancer? And it's like, oh, this is the rarest, you know, it's like nobody knows anything, and then there's this BS about them taking away cancer screenings for Boston firefighters just passed. So there's like there's both, I think, is the thinking about it and not thinking about it. Or yes, I mean I they'll still have the other the regular health cancer screenings, I guess, but I don't I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So like I don't watch Boston or Chicago Fire. People are like, oh, do you watch that show? And I was like, nope, no, I would never. I will watch, I don't watch medical dramas either, except for The Pit. But do you watch the Pit? I haven't seen it yet.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Is it no? Is it good? Is it worth watching? It's really good.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

I like I didn't, I feel like I like in medical school was like, and we're done. Like I think like the last time I ever watched Grey's Anatomy was then, and then I never watched anything again. But the pit's good. Yeah. Did you never watch House? I did, but then I stopped. Like I was like busy doing all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Right. And your life is medical, and then you're gonna or your career, I should say. And then you're gonna get much more medical. It's a lot, yeah. But the pit feels different, it's good.

unknown 43:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

All right, awesome. That's great. And then I guess I'm not sure about this one because I know it sounds like you work maybe more hours than your husband does. But one of my previous guests mentioned that she likes to call it shift happens. Like she wants it's a segment that we're starting. So what's something that has happened to you when your husband's at work where you're like, this would happen while he's on shift?

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Oh, every fucking time. It never fails. Because it's still like, yeah, I mean, it's like, oh, I'm the one that has it feels like more responsibility, right? Like I have patients scheduled, I have all this stuff, and and it'll be like, oh, you're already at work, and so-and-so has a fever. Like they only get sick when he's already at work. Or like every once in a while the night before, but then it's like it's it's always like he take, you know, he doesn't have any more sick time, and uh yada yada. So it's like, so you're gonna go to work and I'm gonna figure this out. And then I mean, I'm like, I have default made myself the person that brings him to the doctor's office typically because I'm usually like trying to get an in with someone I know, or I know the questions that I want, you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

So answered, yeah.

unknown 45:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

I have I have a little bit of a control thing on that. But if I'm like, she needs a strep test, just take her in. But you know, I do it all they only get sick when he's about to work or he's already at work. Yeah. And I'm like, cool, cool, cool, cool. And it's always like, oh, this really important meeting is happening right now. Cool, cool.

unknown 45:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

My husband, my son like broke his leg at daycare when he had like a spiral fracture when he was like 18 months. Oh, like a kid sat on his, like, I think someone just like sat on him when he had his legs crossed. And they called me and they were like, Oh, his like leg. I think we need to take him to the hospital, his leg really hurts. And I was like, hospital. Like, I was like, is he is he bleeding? He's like, hospital, easy. I was like, Is he conscious? Like, yeah, I was like, that seems like a lot. I was like, give him some Tylenol, put him down for a snap. I just like I'm about to go to this really important meeting. Can like call me if he's not going down for a snap? Awful, awful. You always overdo it or underdo it. And they were like, okay. And so then I didn't hear back and I was like, Well, I guess he went down for his nap. And then I picked him up and I was like, I guess he won't really bear weight. I don't know, you will. Uh eventually I was like, eventually, but it was like totally like six-hour delay because I was like, I mean, I was like texting my friend who's an ortho, and I'm like, So, you know, like what is there anything that I could like miss if I don't bring it in now? You know, like the limping kid is like right, you know, keeping an eye on it, blah blah blah. But you know, and then I love okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

All right, I'll be right there, I guess. I love that you always overdo it or underdo it, and that's so true. That's so true. Like two nights ago, my daughter has a fever right now, and my nephew and my niece both just had a fever followed by like the shits, right? Like diarrhea everywhere. And my brother was joking, he was like, Yeah, his daughter's jumping on the trampoline and just like poop is coming out, right? Like as she's jumping, and they all go to school together. So then my daughter gets a fever two nights ago, and like she stayed home yesterday because she has a fever, but she slept in my bed for the first time ever. I just want to say, like, I never let her sleep in my bed, but I let her that time because in in my head, I'm like, oh no, she's complaining of belly pain and she's drinking a lot of water. But she hadn't had any water all day because she she like just didn't want to eat or drink anything, and then she was a little thirsty. She drank like half a cup, but I was like, oh boy, we're gonna end up in the hospital tonight. Like, that's it. We're going into the hot. I think she's diabetic. Like, I she has to be diabetic. And then I'm reminding myself, like, no, wait a second. It was it's just the stomach bug. Can you relax and just like let her fall asleep? And she always overdo it or underdo it.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Yes, I got a glucometer door dash to my house two months ago when we had the didn't know you could neurovirus that was so bad. And I was just like, but what if he's in DKA? What if? You don't know, you don't know, and I was like, no one else would ever do this, but I was like, that's it. I'm getting a glucometer, and I'm just like because I'm not gonna bring him in. I like refuse to bring my kids in when they're but like it was a really it was that norovirus that was like the five-day one.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

I may or may not have asked my husband to bring a glucometer home from the firehouse, and he said no. He was like, I can't do that. I was like, okay, okay, okay, we'll just have an idea.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

You can tour dash them noted.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yeah, I love that for all of your health anxieties. Last question. I know you have worked and you're busy. If you could give one piece of advice to somebody going into the firewife position, what would it be? And I kind of like that you haven't been listening because these are all new questions to you. I think some people who listen, they like come prepared. So I'm curious what you're gonna say. Oh, I am totally, totally ill-prepared.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

I would say like find something that you really like to do for you. Because first of all, you're gonna be alone like two nights a week at least. And so that would be one thing. So whether that's like I get to read this book or I get to watch this show that my husband is not interested in, or you know, like have the thing where the like you sort of have something you're looking forward to. So you're like, oh, I'm alone tonight, so I get to do this, is one thing. And then I would say the other thing, what? What's your thing? Oh, I just like watch whatever crap I want, or I can just like get in bed at nine and read and do, which I we just tend to like watch a show together when we're together. We do too, yeah. And so and then I think the other thing is like make sure that you also go out for you, like may do the opposite. So be like, I'm going out to dinner, and you're gonna, you know, like have some sort of parody where you you get to also be away, yeah. Yeah, in some way. That's really great advice. If you don't force aren't forced to do it, but right.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

It's so easy to end up in that routine of like you are the primary caregiver for your children, yeah. And then, you know, they're they're away, and then that's just how you get used to it, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:19

So and I think like if you're already I presume that most people don't then also like work like I do at night, right? But I think it's also it's been really I mean, I there's a lot of like nurse firefighter, like I think there's like seven nurse firefighter dyads at my husband's firehouse. Yeah, so probably how they maybe sometimes they do they do nights too, I'm not sure, but it's I would say like there's something to be said for making sure that they can do everything too. Yeah. That's like not a that's just like a life thing, maybe not a firefighter thing, but I think maybe even more just because if they're gone then twice, then like the wife is always doing the the things, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

I mean, a lot of the firewife advice is actually really relevant for everybody. It's just that as firewives, we just have to we have to do it because it's just more like it's more obvious the need the need to kind of compensate. Right. But then you have other couples, yeah, exactly. Right. But anyway, okay, I lied. One more question. Top show, book, podcast, recommendation. Oh something, entertainment.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

That's tough. I love reading and I read like an insane amount of books, but but I never read. Yo, I make time. Nice, I make plenty of time. Children are like, are you can you play? And I'm like, no. Nah.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Reading, I'm busy.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

I'm trying to like lead by example. I'm like, see, reading is so fun. Bye. Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Oh I mean, I I well, maybe I'll just go with the pit because we already talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

We did.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Maybe that's lame. Yeah, I want another. I think that's okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

I'm not gonna let you off the hook.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

I don't know what it's called, but I just started listening to this podcast that is like I'm finding really helpful in primary care. And it's like, what is it called? I don't remember what it's called, but it's uh like two female physicians who like go through health fads and sort of like talk through them. So there's one on like protein, GLP1s, perimenopause. And so it's like geared, I think, a little bit towards primary care doctors, but also towards everything. Um that's really cool. I'm finding it really it's like a nice gut check when I'm like, well, I'm doing this. I wonder what they're doing. Um then I'm like, okay, cool, cool, me too. Yeah, I knew that. It has a like a fun little name that's I wonder if the antisocial doctors, that's what it's called. I just love to have that.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Oh, clever. Antisocial doctors. Love it. Yeah, so some relevant stuff. That's great. Well, thank you for your time. This has been really lovely. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed being here as much as I did. If you have any questions for me or if you'd like to be interviewed, please reach out at the firewivespodcast at gmail.com. You can also follow me on Instagram and Facebook. Tune in next week for the next episode of Firewives.