E17 Crystal

Bad A** Mental Health Counselor

Mom and Stepmom

Fire Wife

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hi. Hi, Crystal. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:13

I'm doing well. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Good. Thank you so much for being so patient with me. I was working. I have a student. I got home a little late and then I put my kids to bed. And my daughter's at that age where like mommy has to do it. So sorry, I was a couple minutes late, but thank you for being patient.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

No, I totally understand. How old's your daughter? She is four and a half. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Close to five, actually. She's getting close to five. So which is crazy. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

I'm good. I'm good. You know, we're I'm in SoCal, so it's getting pretty hot right now. Um, I bet. Yeah, I started to get a little warped but I mean everything's been good. Busy, you know, uh starting work on Monday, and my daughter's in softball. So as we jump off, I'll be heading over to the fields for a Friday night game. So oh nice. What time is the game? It starts at 6 15. She has two games, so yeah, we're good. Wow. Remind me how old your daughter is. She is 10 and a half, she'll be 11 in December. Yeah, that's exciting. And you have one child. I have one, and then I have two stepkids. One of them. How older? 10. So my daughter is six months older than they are. So it feels like we have triplets at times.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Yeah. I bet that sounds like a lot. Yeah, it's a lot for sure. Yeah. So thank you for reaching out initially. I know you found me off of social media, and I really appreciate that you reached out. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me your story and and anything you would want me to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah. So I started in behavioral health about 10 years ago now. I always say that people who stay in this realm of work are those who were meant to be here. So I always say, like, mental health chooses them. They don't choose mental health. And so that was that I definitely feel like that was very much for me. I've battled through my own PTSD, depression, anxiety. I always say that in order to help others kind of navigate through a dark place, it's beneficial when unfortunately you've been through that dark place yourself. And then about six years ago, I started specializing in first responders and first responders in their families. And so when I when I went started in specializing with first responders, my ex-husband at the time was also starting his journey in law enforcement. And so again, I had already been working in this field. I was working on my undergrad in psychology. And at the time, I had a plan to get my undergrad in psychology, get my master's in nursing, and I was dead set on becoming a psych nurse. And I was going to work in the jails and I wanted to do all of that. Then I started taking my prerequisites for nursing and I realized my heart was not on the clinical side, or it was not on the medical side, it was on the clinical side. And so I had a mentor at the time started talking to her, and she says to me, You don't sound like a nurse, you sound like a therapist, you need to be on the clinical side. And I said, Yeah, I think you're right. I think within that day, I called my counselor and I said, I'm changing everything. I'm I'm gonna be just leaning towards the clinical side. At that point, I had never told anyone that I wanted to specialize in first responders and veterans. And so I never really explained that to anyone or shared that with anyone. And I share it with her, not knowing that she is married to a firefighter. She specializes in first responders and she says to me, You're perfect. I'm gonna take you under my wing. So that's kind of how my journey started. And then, like I mentioned, my ex-husband, he had been talking about going into law enforcement. So he had already been, you know, starting his career in something different, but never felt like he was getting that sense of fulfillment. And so it was something that we had been discussing for a long time. We were high school sweethearts. So I'd been with him since I was 15 years old, and we got married super young. I we got married when I was 21, and then we had our daughter when I was 23. And so he says to me, This is what I want to do. I said, Okay. So he started applying for different departments, going through the backgrounds, and then, like I said, we kind of went into a parallel. So that's kind of how our journey started. And then since then, I've just been specializing in working with first responders and just their families as well and their spouses, being that I have a very interesting perspective that we are no longer married, however, we co-parent a daughter together. So it's it's a very interesting place to be, being that I work directly with first responders. I help manage, you know, PTSD trauma, burnout. I've worked with departments, and then being that I had the experience of being a spouse, and then still very much having that experience, being that I'm still very much involved in his life, but not fully. And so there's a lot of different feelings that come with that and challenges within itself that most people face but don't really talk about. And so it's been a very interesting journey to say the least. And so since then, I started really kind of specializing. I I work, I've worked with different companies, but I now specialize really in just trying to help connect people within the community and helping spouses. And and I'm in the process of creating my website to hopefully be able to create a community and a place where every can come everyone can come and get those resources, referrals, and more than anything, that connection that people need.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

That's wonderful. I mean, the fact that you stuck with it after going through a divorce, which is just one of the hardest things that somebody can go through, I think that shows your commitment and how how much you really care about this field.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, my not only, you know, again, I always say, as much as my ex-husband is a pain in my ass and I hate him more often than not, I still have a lot of love for him.

unknown 5:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

And we grew up together, you know, we were we were kids, and there's there's still a lot of hurt there in many ways, but it definitely has been something that we've been able to process and work through. And so it's it's helped us. And also I have a lot of some of my best friends are in the fire service and in law enforcement. So I'm very much immersed in it in many different ways.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah. This is my first time talking with somebody whose spouse, as ex-spouse, is actually not a firefighter, but in law enforcement, which is really exciting for me because I really think this is applicable to anybody but any EMS personnel overall. You know, a lot of the stuff that I've talked about with other people, like the advice they give, things like that, that could be any couple that could take something from that. It doesn't have to be law enforcement or fire service or anything, but but still, this is exciting. I feel like I'm branching out, you know?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I do a lot of like I like I mentioned, I do a lot of work with individually with first responders and on the spousal side. So there's a lot of things that I've I've been able to learn along the time that I've been doing this, but also being able to have my own personal experience has really helped me in that as well, too. I mean, everyone knows unfortunately the divorce rates are really high in first responder community, both fire, EMS, you know, law enforcement, whatever it is, you know, any public safety. And so it has really been able to help me connect with other individuals and sometimes repair marriages and help with that. And then at times being able to help them navigate through that divorce and how to come together for the children, because that's also the hardest part when it comes to being able to find that next chapter when unfortunately that does happen.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah, I mean, that's so important, right? Because sometimes it's unavoidable, but other times maybe if people could figure out how to communicate a little better, maybe you could help repair the marriage, like you said. Yeah. What is a typical day like for you? I know you said you're starting a new job soon, but what kind of I don't know if service is the right word, but what kind of day-to-day things do you do?

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I mean, honestly, with there's never a dull moment with what I do. I typically I I'm working like my normal job, I'm connecting with just either departments or other peer support teams or other individuals within this wellness space. It's over the past five years, of course, wellness in first responders has been a hot topic. Um, right, it's been able to open up a lot of doors, open up a lot of conversations that need to be had, but also you will see individuals who, for lack of better terms, jumped into this field to almost like a bandwagon, like, oh, let's this is where money's at. Let's make a lot of reality is that's not really it, right? So part of what I do is coming in and vetting and making sure that they're legit and they're not people who just wanted to jump into something because it sounded cool and they were more amused with the fact of I want to work with first responders. And I could say I work with first responders, or you know, I could jump into this culture. So it's been interesting, and and I'm very grateful that I have been welcomed in this space because I I'm a civilian, you know, I understand that and I respect that. And so the fact that I have been able to be trusted to be in this space and be someone that can be a resource to other people, it's I feel very honored to do that and be a part of that. But you have to really ensure that you're you're talking to the right people who are in it for the right reasons. So, I mean, that's a big part of what I do. But because I've been doing this for so long, I've kind of turned into someone that people know that again, as I'm sure you know, for Shawander community, like no one trusts people very easily in this space. And so because I have been trusted, my number and my name gets thrown around a lot. And so there are times where all of a sudden I'll get random numbers calling or texting me and saying, Hey, I got your information from so and so. I heard that you could help me find either a therapist or go into treatment, or do you know of any groups that I can go to or I'm having issues? Is there something that you can do to help me with that? And so that's kind of what I do. There's times where I get phone calls, you know, really early on in the morning, and there's times where I get phone calls at midnight. So it just it's it's interesting, you know, it's it's been something that I enjoy doing. And luckily, my husband now I did get remarried. He's very understanding of that as well. So he's very much like, Hey, I know what this this job is and it's it's meaningful to you. So it's it's a never, never a dull moment and never ending.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Right. And that that shows how much he must trust you too to be getting phone calls at midnight and not finding that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah, it was definitely it was a learning curve for him. He is not a first responder, he's a teacher. So he in many ways I kind of joke and say, like, I feel almost like the first responder in the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Just thinking that, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yeah, I almost feel like that because I'm like, listen, there's certain things too that I just I won't share with him because one confidentiality, and two, it's he's not gonna understand it. And so now he understands like there's days where I'm like, hey, today was heavy. And he pretty much like, okay, like I know what that means. Do you need anything? Do you need to decompress? Like, is there something that I can do to help you? So he understands it, but a big part of it was that learning curve for him and being able to communicate and tell him what I need and like when I need a minute to kind of reset before I can integrate myself back into our life together as a family. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

How do your kids handle it?

SPEAKER_01 11:31

My my stepkids are they don't really, it doesn't really phase them. I don't really like tell them too much. They know what I do, but they don't ask questions. My daughter understands it completely, and she's a deaf, she's definitely more in it. Actually, it's interesting. I have I had an interesting conversation with her this morning because again, her dad is in law enforcement, and being that she knows what I do, and so she knows that I hear stories and I I I work in the field that I work in, and she's aware of suicide and she knows what that means, and and all of that. So there, I mean, unfortunately, I have lost people that I worked with clients due to suicide, and so she understands that. And just yesterday we were with one of her best friends, and you know, I had I had the girls with me, and we were talking, I don't know what conversation or how it happened, but she starts to have a conversation saying, Oh, my dad told me this crazy story of like he went on a call once, and I immediately knew what she was gonna say. And I was like, Don't say anything, like, don't have that conversation. She's like, What's wrong? And I was like, You have to understand that what you think is normal is not normal to her. Like, she doesn't understand that. So, like, you didn't do anything wrong, but like you and I need to have a sidebar conversation later. And so then her best friend, who's like another daughter to me, she's like, What do you mean? I was like, Look, babe, like there's you there's nothing wrong, like no one's in trouble. It's just certain things that I know you're not used to hearing, and I don't want you to hear that. And so she's like, Okay, like didn't think anything about it. So this morning my daughter says to me, like, Well, what happened? Like, what did I do? And I was like, You didn't do anything wrong, but you also have to understand that your mind and the way that you normalize things isn't normal for most kids, especially most 10-year-olds, right? Like, you're about to tell a story about how your dad went to a call and he found body limbs all over the park. And for you, you're like, Oh, yeah, this is a normal day for my dad. And I'm like, Nope, yeah, it is, but like for other kids, that's a very traumatic event. And the way that they're envisioning it, they're like, oh my gosh, like it's a straight out of a horror film. For you, you just kind of know like it's a normal day for my dad. This is something my mom's probably heard before, like it's no big deal. I'm like, you sometimes finding bullets next, like at home, that's not normal either. Like, that's just something that you know, it's a bad habit your dad has. So again, it's like these are all things that aren't normal to most, but it's normal to you. So we need to understand that you need to have certain boundaries about certain conversations and who you're having them with. So I had to have that conversation with her. She's like, okay, I understand. I'm like, okay. She's like, it doesn't bother me though. And I was like, I know, because this is your this is our normal. It's not everyone else's normal.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Right. I never thought about that. I have always thought about, you know, our spouses go to work and their normal is not our normal or somebody else's normal. Like for me, I I love stories like that. I don't mind. Some spouses don't want to hear about it. But if I were to go and tell these stories or the jokes that my husband makes that are completely not normal, right? But I never considered that like my kids could then go on and like kind of perpetuate that and and tell these stories that are really traumatizing for other kids. I mean, what a great point. Do you think that you would ever consider, or maybe you already do, having her talk to somebody about it? Because it's not normal for a kid to think that's normal.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, I mean I saw I've my daughter has been in therapy before, so she went into therapy shortly after our divorce. Sure. And so, and being that I work in this space, like by the time my daughter was three, three years old, possibly four, I was doing doing guided meditations with her at night. And so I was very much like, hey, we're gonna learn how to regulate your emotions. And it's okay to feel overwhelmed, but what is it exactly that you're feeling? So, I mean, she was at preschool asking the teacher for a guided meditation when she saw a classmate having a meltdown, you know. So, like, my daughter is very much self-aware of these things. So I had her in therapy shortly after the divorce, and that was just a process of divorce. Then we had her in, and then I then actually to her credit, two years later, she came to me and said, Hey, mom, I think I need to go back to therapy. I'm experiencing a lot of anger again. Um with my emotions, can you put me back in therapy? I said, Yes, absolutely. Gave her some time, and then I was like, Let's just wait. Like, maybe it's just, you know, you're going through some stuff. Waited about like a month and a half. She's like, No, I need to go. I said, Okay, just put her back. And so she has been doing well with that. She's not at the point where she hasn't come to me, or I don't feel like she needs to go to therapy to process some of that just yet, just because we we talk about it so often. And I think that's the difference between what a lot of families and just children is that they don't feel there hasn't been a space that they feel safe enough to discuss certain things and for them to understand, hey, this is impacting me, or this is not necessarily normal, or that's where a lot of like the suppressed emotions come in, right? So fortunately, I feel that I've done a very good job in being able to create that space for my daughter for her to come to me and have those conversations. And I have, and she knows, but I've also told her, like, hey, if it be if it becomes too much of you hearing the stories that your dad is telling you, like you also need to tell your dad, hey, I don't want to hear it. Like, I don't want to know, right? And so I've asked her, like, do you want me to have a conversation with your dad as well? Like, she's like, No, I'm okay. I'm like, okay, no problem. Like, but you need to also understand your boundaries and where you feel like you need to put them in place for that, you know, uh instance.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Yeah, and boundaries are really hard to define, especially when you're young to stick to. So that's wonderful that you're already teaching her that. Yeah. Now, getting a little bit personal, you've met been talking about the divorce. Obviously, it's a big part of your life. Would you say that your ex-husband being in law enforcement contributed to this? Was it a big part of it? Was there other stuff that maybe you don't want to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

I think it was definitely, it wasn't the main contributor. I think it was a part of it. You know, I always say hurt people, hurt people. Like I previously mentioned, my ex and I were together since we were 15 and 16 years old. We were kids, and so we grew up together. I had a very complex traumatic childhood. I did, I went through a lot of therapy myself, did a lot of work within myself. During that time that we were married and together, I had gone to therapy on and off. Obviously, I was going to school. So a lot of individuals joke and say, like, hey, when you start to study all these things, all of a sudden you're like, wait, that relates to me. That's how you self-diagnose. Yeah, I was like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. I'm starting to understand a lot of what's wrong with me. So I did a lot of that. And unfortunately, my ex-husband and I had the opportunity to either grow together or grow apart. And unfortunately, we grew apart. I did not feel supported by him, and I became a very ugly person. And so I think it at one point we were able to really support each other, and then it took a turn to where we were bringing the worst out of each other. And I so badly wish it would have worked out. I I truly do. And I look back and I think like I wish we could have had that because how beautiful of a story could that have been. But unfortunately, it didn't turn out that way. And so I think with him going into law enforcement, it definitely just added and contributed more of what I saw in him that I didn't like. And and now, if anything, I see more of him just suppressing more of his emotions and not being emotionally available. So that was that was a big factor in our marriage, especially towards the end, is that I didn't feel that he was emotionally available the way that I needed him to be for us as a husband and wife, and then also emotionally available for our daughter as a father and a daughter. And so that was a big contributor. And so I think with the law enforcement piece, it just kind of made that even bigger. And I I know that man better than anyone else still to this day. Like, you know, I call him out. I'm like, what's wrong? Is everything okay? And there's been times where I've tried to have a conversation of like, hey, I'm coming from a good place, I'm not trying to come from a place of wanting to fight, like I'm concerned, and it's shut. No, we're not doing that. Like I'm fine, I'm okay. So I'm like, okay. So I I like to believe he knows that I'm I'm here for him if needed. And I've always told him that. But that's definitely, I think it just added. So if we didn't get divorced when we did, it would have happened eventually at some point.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's it's a bummer. And to your point, in EMS or law, you know, all the emergency services, the rates are so much higher because of that stress level. But I wonder if just having those underlying issues probably, you know, it really just brought it out in him in him and in in you as a couple, which is really I know that must be tough.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I think uh when he started going into the space of law enforcement, that was like towards the end of our marriage. And so I really tried to hold on to that. And I just again, I we we tried and we tried to make it work and we did everything we could, but I think ultimately just he was already unemotionally available, and then once he went into that, it was really just like completely shut off.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Yeah, and I wonder is that a defense mechanism, right? What he has to do to get through.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah, and I mean most in first responders do that. I mean, that's a big part of what I do and helping them understand that. And it's it's you shut the emotions off to keep yourself safe and keep uh your crew or your partner or the people you're working with safe. You can't bring an emotion during the time that you're going to a call. You just it's there's a switch that goes on. It's okay. And and it's interesting because most first responders they feel the most uh confident and the most comfortable in uh their work because it's a controlled chaos that they know how to handle and they have the answers to, right? But when you go home. Home, it's a chaos that you're not familiar with and you have zero control over it. And so that's a big part of what I see in that gap that starts to develop over time because the first responder comes home and it's a chaos that they are unfamiliar with. The communication is no longer there between the first responder and the spouse. And now they're feeling more irritable coming home because now there's more factors into it, right? There's the children, there's the spouse, there's the financial stress, there's all these other things. But again, communication's not being had, right? The first responder isn't coming home and telling the spouse, I just attended to a suicide last night for a teenage boy, and I'm looking at our son who's the same age, and you're getting mad because you know he did something so small and mediocre in my eyes. And I'm thinking to myself, hey, you should be thankful that our son is here because I had to help him process what that happened last night. So it's like, but you're not gonna tell the spouse that instead you're just gonna lash out and you're gonna be irritable, and then the child's gonna question what did I do wrong, and the spouse is gonna be mad and resentful because you're not telling her you're being you're you're acting a certain way. Or so again, it's there's that gap that just continues to get bigger and wider, and you know, and it it it continues to evolve until someone starts to have these difficult conversations.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Wow, that's I mean, so true. So true. Right. And if you think about it, I mean that's the case for any marriage, but in particular in first responders, there's so much trauma that they deal with every day.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, that's it's so hard. Yeah, it is. I mean, even when I tell people they ask me, like, what do you do for work? and I explain to them, and I remember the first time I really started getting into this. A lot of times I would tell them, like, oh, I help first responders with PTSD trauma, substance addiction, and they're like, first responders and PTSD, like, what do you mean? I'm like, what do you mean? What do I mean? Like, really, come on. Like, what do you mean? And so I had to put it to perspective. I'm like, someone's worst day is their day to day multiple times a day, like multiple times a day, multiple days a week. Can you and then once I put that into perspective, they're like, I never thought about it that way.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

I'm like, I mean, if they don't have to think about it, right? Why would they? There's probably a lot of stuff like that. But what do you mean? What do you mean? Yeah, I'm like, uh what?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Like, hold on. Yeah. So yeah. And so when I break it down, they're like, oh my god, they're like, Crystal, this is traumatizing. I'm like, hence why we're having this conversation, hence why I do what I do. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Well, it's wonderful that there are people like you who do what you do. I know it must also take a toll on you.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, I mean, it's I luckily, if with any type of work within this field, right, we're taught in school how to decompress and understand and identify that burnout as well. Too especially specializing in this, it's not for everyone. And you have to, you know, have the right personality to do it. Fortunately for me, because I lived in a very chaotic childhood, I think I just, you know, again, it's the chaos that I'm familiar with that I am comfortable in, that I which is why I do well in it.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Right. You thrive in the chaos, probably.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

I I definitely thrive in chaos for sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Right, right. So I know you're remarried and your husband is a teacher, pretending you didn't meet your current husband. Would you ever remarry a first responder?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Probably.

unknown 25:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

I mean, more than likely, I think it's I my my husband now jokes about it, and he's like, if you didn't marry me, you would end up with a first responder or someone. I said, probably so. Not that I'm like looking for one, and by no means am I like a badge bunny of any sort, but it's like badge bunny? Is that a word? Is that a term? Yeah, oh, it's a term, it's very well used out here, at least in California. Wait, wait, wait, tell me more about this. Oh, yeah, it's women who like want to be with men who have the badge, whether you're in law enforcement or a firefighter, they're called badge bunnies, and so like for what gain? Like because it's sexy, yeah. I mean, most women find a lot of first responders attractive. I mean, sure, I can see that, right? I married one, but like I know, right? Yeah, no, I know it's comical too because a lot of the time a lot of women know what I do and they're like, Oh, are they so hot? And I'm like, I mean, yeah, they're they're attractive, but it's not like something. I'm like, they're really also kind of screwed up.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

So it's like, I don't know, like also, like that's like asking a doctor, hey, do you do you want to do your patients?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Like, yeah, like I don't know, like I don't really see them like that. They're just people, like there's it's a complicated, there's a lot, it's very complex. Like, I don't look at them like that. Like, it's not a lavish like life as most people it comes with a lot, like it's not a thing.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

It's heavy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

It's heavy, yeah. It's a it's a heavy thing, it's not like, oh, you know. So I always joke about it. I'm like, do you really know what you're signing up for? Like when you want that. So yeah, no, but uh to answer your question, more than likely, probably yes, more so because it's it's nice to be with someone who understands what this life is in the culture and the community is, right? It's again, it's it's it's some of my closest friends are first responders, and so being able to my conversations with them are very different with individuals who are not in this space, right? Um understand it. Like my best friend, she's a therapist, and so her and I can talk about things, and we're our relationship is very different than some of our other friendships, and people see it. Like we have other friends who see us interact in our conversations, and it's half the time they're like, What are you guys saying? I'm like, Oh, I forgot that you don't understand our dark humor because you're not in this space as well. Like, we're just kidding. But like do you find that you have a dark sense of humor? Oh, definitely, definitely have a dark sense of humor.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Just like most first responders.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said, I mean, it's my way of coping. I've always had that dark sense of humor, but especially now within being being in the behavioral space, and then now even more so being with first responders, it's definitely just made it even darker, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

It's a coping mechanism. It is, you gotta make light of these dark things because otherwise you you you just have to.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's like I said, I'm very blessed and fortunate that my husband has we've had those conversations and we've been able to like he balances me out very well, and he's not threatened by it, too. Because people have asked him, like, are you threatened that your wife is around all of these very attractive men? And he's like, No, it's her job, like that's her job. Like she loves what she does, and that's her job, and I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

So that's incredible. Does he feel I don't want to ask if he feels threatened because that's just so juvenile, but yeah, does he get along well with your ex and as far as like spouses can get along?

SPEAKER_01 29:04

It has been a very long process to get to where we're at now. Um, it was not easy in the beginning, but now we're at a place where we can all be very cordial. My husband and my ex-husband now could, you know, acknowledge each other, whereas before they wouldn't even acknowledge each other. Like, about it was a few weeks ago, I think at this point. My daughter, we were on our way to school, it was like her last week of school. She says to me, She's like, You know, mom, you know what I was thinking? I was like, What? She's like, It was crazy when my dad wouldn't even talk to like my stepdad. Like, like, that was wild. That was a wild time. Like, they wouldn't even like look at each other, there was no interaction. Like, she's like, and look at us now. Like, they could talk, they acknowledge each other. Like, my, you know, my ex-husband brought us. We were again, my daughter plays softball, we're super involved with that. My husband now actually is a coach for her, so he coaches my daughter, he coaches his stepdaughter, and my ex-husband watches and he's supportive, and he like brought us snacks and water one day because I asked him to. And so before he probably wouldn't have done that. And so it's like we definitely have come to a place to my ex-husband's credit, even though him and I have not seen eye to eye in many things, especially in the beginning. He has always supported me as her mother, and has always said to her, like, hey, your mom, what your mom says goes, she's the one that takes the lead on the parenting, so you need to respect her. And now it's gone to hey, you need to respect your mom and your stepdad. They both do a lot for you. Like, we're all here to support you. So it's it was not an easy journey, and it's definitely not perfect, but it works for us now, and it ultimately it's what's best for our daughter at this moment.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Yeah, and I mean that's the way it should be, right? That's co-parenting. Not everybody can stay married forever, as beautiful as that would be. Yeah. You know, but her health and mental health is the most important thing. So it's nice that you've as a group been able to move past that. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. That's great. Now, I think when we had been touching base before, I think some of these questions may or may not be relevant. But you were married to your ex for a long time. What was, in your opinion, the best part of being married to a first responder?

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Honestly, I think like not having him home all the time. I loved it. Um, as you know, he again he had four tens, so his shift would just depend. And having him work nights, I like loved it because then it was just my daughter and I. And like we would, and at the time my best friend lived with us, so it was just like a girls only house, it felt like. We would just have our time and you know, watch our shows and watch our movies and just have our girl time. So I think that was honestly like the best that we were able to kind of have that time away.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

You didn't feel like it was too much on you doing like bedtime every night and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Honestly, I think I've always been a very independent woman, you know, as much as I hate saying that, it's just who I I was raised like that. I was raised to be, I was I'm the oldest of three. I have two younger brothers. I come from a first-generation, you know, Mexican-American household. So it's like women are raised to just be very independent and like you just handle your stuff. So I've always been that way, and uh, and unfortunately, I always say that I was that single married person. So my ex-husband wasn't really always there to do the things, so I was the one always doing the things, and so it didn't felt it didn't feel any different. It's it was difficult for sure. I mean, I didn't enjoy it, I definitely felt alone. It's it's hard, it's not something that you want in a marriage, I guess you could say, or most people won't want that because they as much as I did love having my own time, I also want to feel supported, and at times it didn't feel that way. So now with my husband, it's day and night. He's like, sometimes I'm like, okay, I love you so much, but I need my time, please leave. Like, please, like, I I need my own time, like, yeah, so it's it's very different.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

I think so. My husband's a firefighter, their schedules are obviously different, as you know. So Robbie is on two 24s a week, and I miss him, and I think that comes from him not being there. And I also love being able to watch TV in bed. So it's it is nice. You get to do your own thing a little bit. I think probably the hardest part for me is just it's not bedtime specifically, like it's not just that, but sometimes I'm like, you know, if I'm working till seven, because there are some nights that we I on Thursdays I work till seven, and then I come home, I have to go pick up the kids after school, wherever they may be with whoever's watching them, because I was working till seven, Robbie's at the firehouse. I come home, I put them to bed, I'm eating dinner at like 9:30 because I haven't, you know. And it's okay. It's a small sacrifice to make, but those are the nights where I'm like, wow, this is hard.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Like I just I'm starving, I'm grumpy. But there's bigger problems. Like it's fine. That happens like once a month because his schedule rotates. So it doesn't really land that way that often. It but those are the nights where I'm like, wow, what would it be like to be married to somebody who's home every night?

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I I definitely feel that because like I said, I went from someone who was the first responder to someone who Oh, yeah. So you know, you know what it's like. Yeah, it's so different. Like it's very different. Like, yeah, my husband now is like extremely emotionally available. Like he's like it's it's it's like he's like the golden retriever that I never thought I had. And I was like, this is so strange.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Like do you still find yourself like reverting back to old habits of like dealing with somebody who's not emotionally available?

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Definitely, and my husband called me out on it, you know. Really? Yeah, he does. There's like I because I have unfortunately I did experience a lot of emotional pain through my marriage. I and throughout my lifetime too, like not only with my marriage, but through my life, I am quick to put up my guard. So I be like, nope, I push everyone away, I can do everything by myself, I don't need help. And he will call me out, and he's like, This isn't that, like, we're just having a moment. I'm still here for you. Like, put your guard down. And I'm like, I don't think you called me that. Like, I don't like that you called me out.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

I'll just do that then. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Yeah.

unknown 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

So to answer your question, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Yeah, I can see how that might be difficult to move away from that once you once that's what you've been used to your whole life.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah. I'm like, oh, red flag, time to just shut everything out. Like, I'm just gonna continue doing what I do. Like, and he's like, Nope, not doing that. So right.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Well, good for him. That's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you mentioned you are a Mexican-American first generation person. How do you feel that has affected your choice in career? Does that play a part?

SPEAKER_01 36:16

I mean, a part so when I came into the space of behavioral health, that was a big reason why I decided to move in into this journey. Because if you know, if you're if you're familiar with the Latin culture, mental health does not exist. It's not something that is we talk about, you know, anxiety, depression is non-existent. You just don't talk about it, you act like it's not there, or you just pray it away, like it's not a legit thing. So that was a big part of why I did why I came into this, because I had to go through my journey alone. My family was not supportive in that at all. So when I started going to therapy and doing that, my family did was not supportive. And so my journey in finding my own help was very long because I felt a lot of shame with that. And so, because of that, I I never I my hope was to be able to help other people who have experienced the same thing and teach them and support them that there is no shame to be had, and that there the healing process can happen, and breaking that generational trauma can happen. And so that was a big part of why I entered in this space. And then being in with first responders, it's been interesting too, especially because I do live in California. I live in Southern California, it's a very blue state, and so during 2020, when all that political that political climate was where it was at, my ex-husband and I definitely experienced some backlash because of that, being that he was in law enforcement and being that I was advocating for first responders and their families. It was definitely something that you know we experienced on a on a different level or it in in many ways.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

I can see that. I'm in Massachusetts, and it's a very, very liberal state, as I'm sure you're aware. And it's definitely something that comes up a lot. I'm I am I've said this a couple times before. I'm very liberal. Like I'm the liberalist of the liberal, but I'm also married to a first responder. And so a lot of times it is hard to find a balance where like it shouldn't be that if you're liberal, you don't support your first responders. That doesn't make any sense. If anything, if anything, you should be more supportive of mental health and first responders and veterans because it's the liberal people who support mental health stuff. But it can happen sometimes. It can happen. And I think part of that comes, I I don't know, I I'm not I'm not educated as well as I should be in this field. You probably can tell me more, but it seems as though first responders are so right, so conservative right, generally speaking, that it can almost become like a fight, even though you might agree, right? Like they want the support. The left should want to support them, but they just can't seem to see eye to eye. And it doesn't really make any sense. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah, it's interesting because majority of the time, most people in this space in public safety tend to be more conservative. Um, I consider myself more like middle, so I'm like more middle conservative, a little left. So I'm very like, I I use my common sense and I I'm like I'm in the middle. So that's always, but I lean more conservative. A lot of individuals though are like that. And so it's to your point, it's interesting because for instance, my cousin, she she's a therapist, she's a social worker, super, super left. Um, but her and I have been able to like have a conversation and tell her, like, hey, I specialize in this, and mental health is so needed in first responders. Like, and to your point, it's like, why wouldn't you want to support that? And just like there's I think a lot, I think it's a lot of a lack of education on what when people say defund the police, like you're also defunding wellness help in like departments, and like it's not just like oh, it there's so much more in that, and it's not what you think. And so I think a lot of there's just a lack of education, and I think it's a lot of a false narrative that's put out there, right? Because unfortunately, the media wants first responders to look like they're so negative, and and there's always bad apples in any career in any category, right? But I think again, it's they're being painted out to be individuals that they're not, and so the public safety service is constantly having to battle climbing a hill that everyone's trying to push us off of, and so it's it's challenging, you know. But again, it's like having conversations and educating people and understanding that there's so much work that needs to be done within this space. And I don't necessarily think that I think old school first responders, right? The older generation are we're very much like, you know, we don't talk about mental health. You just bite the bullet, this is what you do. You just it's just what it is. Then there's that new generation that is now starting to talk about and understand, hey, mental health is very much needed to be discussed in the department within the service. So it's not something to be shameful of. So you're seeing that that change evolve within departments, both in fire and law enforcement. So it is it's happening, right? But again, it's it's being able to have the resources and the right resources available to them and having the people who are able to kind of point it out and like call them out on certain things. And and because a lot of the times I was I was just having a conversation with someone that they have normalized the abnormal, like we said earlier. So to them, it's like there's nothing wrong until they have like an outsider like myself that's like, hey, that dark humor, it's actually not normal, so like let's talk about it, right? You know, so it's it's certain things that definitely need to be discussed in this space, but people just uh don't have the resources or or don't have someone there with the knowledge of it.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

It's it's a hard time for people to have disagreements right now or to have different opinions because it's just so polarized, right? And then you, for example, you probably just heard me say I'm the leftist of the left, and you probably think that not because it's you or anything, but just like generally you hear that and you're like, oh, she probably thinks defund the police. No, that makes no sense, right? It doesn't make any sense. You don't defund the police, you educate, right? And that's the important thing. And so it's it's really hard because you can have some fundamental values that are left, but if you're a or a right or whatever, but if you're a rational human being, you should be able to hear both sides and make a decision based off of that.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

100%. Yeah, and a lot of people too, like when they they hear me say that I'm a conservative and I'm consider myself a Republican, they're like, Oh my god, you know, you can't have you're anti this and you're anti-that. And I'm like, that's actually not true.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Yeah, I'm all right. I think what Republican means today is not what Republican in tr in its true sense actually means. Yeah, that's the hard part.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Yeah, and so it's like, hey, let's I'm all about like having a conversation and like understanding your point, and maybe I can gain something from your perspective and vice versa, right? And at the end of the day, I think there's more beauty in being able to say, you know, we're gonna agree to disagree, and and this is why that it shouldn't change relationships. Relationships or the outlook on certain, on certain things. If anything, it just maybe could help, you know, make you a better person and show empathy in different ways that maybe you were able to do prior.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

I know. And on a one on one one-on-one basis, it's easy for us to do that. But then when it comes to like population basis, right? You hear like the Republicans, the Democrats, the whatever, the the, and it just kind of puts sets people up against each other. It's like we're setting ourselves up for failure by being this way, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's tricky. But anyway, so we talked a little bit about best part, having some time to yourself. What about the hardest part, worst part? And I almost wonder if this is a silly question because it prompted your whole career, right? But like what's the one thing, not on your not on a career level, but on a personal, like as a wife of a first responder level? What was the hardest part about it?

SPEAKER_01 44:50

I mean, I think even it's now still to this day, even though I'm not married to this individual, I think I I always fear of getting that phone call of like, hey, you know, he's in the hospital or something bad happened. Like that's that is still very much like something that I still carry with me, still to this day. Like, and I've had a conversation with him not that long ago where I'm like, hey, have you had a conversation with your girlfriend or you're letting him know that God forbid something happens? I'm gonna be right next to you with our daughter because I'm gonna make sure that our daughter has the space that she deserves and she needs to be with her father, as well as I want to be there for you, right? Like, and so we've had that those conversations, and I'm like, am I still am I still gonna get notified through the department? Does the department know like had those conversations? And so, you know, it's it's still, I think that is the my biggest instill to this day. It's something I carry. It's like, and even more so now because I'm not as connected with him emotionally, you know, we only we talk about our daughter, basically. We don't have any other there's there's been very firm boundaries put in place between the both of us or myself to him for certain reasons. So it's not like I I don't I don't even know his work schedule, like his fighting working, right? So it's like I I know so there's certain days where I'm like if there's you know something going on within the community that I know he patrols or works and I haven't heard from him, I'll shoot him a text and basically be like, Hey, are you still alive? Okay, like are you alive? What's going on? Like, I need to know, you know. So does he have your daughter regularly? He does not. No, I have her about 80% of the time. Um, it we he we agreed it would be 50-50. It has never been that way because of work scheduling, but also he unfortunately is with someone who isn't as supportive of our daughter being around, and so he has chosen to take that route, and that's on him. Um, so now it's more so okay. I have always said that the door is always open for him to be the father that he wants to be, and that door will never be shut on him.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Wow, good for you.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

So it's it's ultimately up to him whether or not he wants to walk through it. So for now, what we have put in place is what works for him and our daughter. If he if that changes over time, then it changes. But yeah, that door has never not been opened for him.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Right. Wow, that's very mature of you. That's really difficult.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

It was not easy to get to this place, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

How's he gonna react to hearing this podcast? If he ever does, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I've always been very hesitant to share my story. I've as of recently, I've been opening more about what I do and and more my my experience because so many people for so long have encouraged me to do this, but also because again, I have such an interesting perspective that so many people can relate to and gain something out of, but no one's really willing to talk about it. So I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll be that person to jump into the space and kind of talk about it, right? So I don't know. I I I I feel like he's always been very supportive in in certain ways of with what I do. You know, people are always gonna talk and make you know, it's not like there's only so much I can do. So I've learned to pretty much control what I can control and let go of what I can't control. And so great attitude. Yeah, and at this point it's not like I'm sitting here bashing the man, you know.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

No, no, not at all. But still, no.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Yeah, like I always tell him, I'm like, look, you're a pain in my ass, and everything I say publicly, I'll say it to you.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

So Right, exactly. I'm sure you've said this all, exactly. Right, right. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

So it's if if it can help somebody else in this journey, whether they're going through divorce or you know, post-divorce or whatever it is, yeah. Hope that they can get some, you know, some sort of validation through it.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

I mean, there's such shame to this word divorce, but like, aren't you so much better off getting a divorce and recognizing that it's time than to be miserable?

SPEAKER_01 49:21

100%. I mean, I always say this and I acknowledge this and I take accountability in the parts that I played in our marriage ending. I just I became a very ugly person. Like I said earlier, I think we unfortunately got to a point where we were bringing the worst out of each other. And I took a step back and I realized like I don't want to be this person, and I don't want this person to be the mother for my child. Like I and also I I recognized like I deserved better, like I deserved to have someone that was gonna be supportive of what I do and who I am as a person, and and not make me feel like I need to be smaller than what I want to be. And that was whether I was gonna do it alone or find someone who was gonna be supportive in what I do in my life. So I was prepared for that. And I think I recently just I think I heard this somewhere, I read it somewhere. This generation is the first generation to start saying that they got divorced for their children, whereas before it was I stayed because of my children, and so for me, I got divorced for my child because I wanted her to have a better version of myself and hopefully have a better version of her dad.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Yeah. Wow, that's lovely.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

That's lovely.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

With you being in this field, I'm wondering, and I don't know if this if if this is anything, but I'm wondering if you receive any feedback or criticism about this mental health piece and supporting mental health for spouses in particular. And I ask you because in one of my recent interviews, I heard that she said that she's been seeing a lot of negative stuff online and you know, firefighters or supposedly they're firefighters commenting, like, what are you bitching about? What are you complaining about? This, this, and that. What has your experience been? Is that something that you see much of?

SPEAKER_01 51:22

I have not experienced it myself. I have seen that though, and I think it goes back to the lack of education and communication that that is being had within this space about the spousal side, but along with the spouses as well, too. So what I mean by that, like for instance, I've I've had I've led group therapy, I've had conversations with first responders, and a common thing I always hear is very often is my wife is always bitching. My wife is always bitching about why I'm not home, or why the dishes aren't being done when I'm home, or why is this, or why is that, or why are you always doing work when you're home? I want to be with you, and it's like I can't win, and there's frustration, and I'm like, okay. And then I hear often, well, you're bitching about this, but I gave you this house and I'm working my ass off. And then you're asking me to work overtime because you want to go on this trip, and and then, but you also don't realize that I had like a traumatic three days, and we're not going to talk about what I went through, and you're bitching over something that's so small, and so it's like the first responder's point is valid, but so is the spousal, and so she's also valid in feeling that frustration with you. You're both valid, no one's wrong in the situation. What's happening is that communication isn't being had in the situation, right? And so, yes, the first responders are looking at all these women who are coming in and talking about, oh, well, you know, my spouse this, or I'm having a hard time dealing with this. They're looking at it like you're bitching about being home for three days and having this beautiful life that you get to live while I'm over here getting my shit kicked in for lack of better terms, which is often what they say. And you're you're bitching about this, like I'll trade these places any any day, right? So one side is feeling unappreciated, and the other side is feeling unappreciated. No one's talking about why they're feeling unappreciated and how to meet in the middle. That's a big problem of what's happening, and that's kind of where I come in. And I'm like, hey, because I've told them that, and they're like, hey, Chris, and then I and then I tell to my spouses too, hey, what you're feeling and what you're saying is valid. But also, have you had a conversation of what your husband needs? For instance, your husband comes home. Are you automatically throwing all of these things at him and saying, X, Y, and Z, here's the to-to list, like this is what's going on? Or are you saying, Hey, honey, I'm glad you're home. Let me give you a hug. What do you need right now to reset and be present? Because if you just jump on him and give him all of these things at once, you're gonna you're gonna suffocate him. So, very big person on I love analogies, and so what I often use is you know, scuba divers, you're gonna go and you're gonna go deep sea diving. They cannot shoot up to the surface immediately because there's gonna be damage done, right? So, what happens? They have to slowly rise to the surface to feel like they the and to be safe to completely come to the surface, right? First responders are very much like that. So when you get off a shift and you come home, you cannot just shoot to the surface and be like, Hey, hey, honey, I'm home. You need that minute to slowly come to the surface. So maybe you have a long commute, you can use some of that time. Maybe you come home and you say, Hey, honey, I need to go take a shower. I need, I need, give me four hours, and then I'm and then I can be fully present. I'm all yours. Yeah, I'm all yours. But if for a spouse, if you expect them to be there for you immediately, and then you're gonna be upset because they're not mentally present with you for the next 48 hours, that's not necessarily their fault, but it's not necessarily yours. Again, you're not educated on what he needs, and he hasn't communicated that to you, right? And so I've had those conversations with my first responders, and they're like, Crystal, you go have those conversations with the spouses and see what you get. And I'm like, I do have those conversations with the spouses. And do you understand how that I get backlash? Because then it's like you're not a girl's girl, and it's like, no, I'm trying to get you to understand like what it's again being a part of a first responder family, it's not like your girlfriends who aren't a part of a first responder family, it's handled very differently, yeah, and so there's certain things we normalize the abnormal. So for most people, what maybe your husband needs isn't normal, it's normal to you guys, and it's normal to this community.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Yeah, I mean, I'm not a first responder and I feel that way when I come home after work. I'm like, I just need like five minutes. Yeah, I need to go change my clothes, poop, have some water, yeah, give me a minute, right? But when everybody comes at you, it I I can feel overstimulated. And like I said, I don't even work that kind of job.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

So 100%. I mean, I feel that way. It's like, yeah, hold on. Like, I and I've had to tell my husband that I'm like, I have been dealing with people's shit all day, and I can't deal with anyone else's right now. Give me a minute because I'm going to snap like and that's and I'm not I'm not a first responder.

unknown 56:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

Well, you know, close enough, honestly, from what you're describing. Do you find it's different if it's a stay-at-home spouse versus a working spouse, or not really?

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Yes, yeah, it's definitely, I think, and this is not a knock on any woman. Of course not. Something I see often is that most a lot of women almost kind of become the identity of being a first responder spouse. So it's I am a firewife, I am a law enforcement wife. Like I those are all great, but you're more than that. What else are you? You're not just a cop wife, you're not just a fire wife, you're a mom, you're you know, so-and-so, you're you will you were someone before all of this. Who are you? Right? And so, and I think that's a struggle for a lot of women. I've I I've worked with so many women in helping them with that, and so I think that there's a big part of that, and I think a lot of women end up finding almost getting their identity from their husband, and then there's resentment that is built because of that because they have lost their identity and then they have resentment towards their husband uh in a sense, and so it's like I do see that. Whereas women who work and balance a lot of it, they have something that's still theirs and they kind of hold on to, so it's not just I have my own, like I have my own career, I have something that is mine that I'm working for and towards, or I have value in and I'm proud of. And it's not to say that they're not proud of being a wife and a mom or all those things, but it's the identity is looked at a little differently with a that a lot of that. So when I do work with a lot of women and they're struggling in that, especially like stay-at-home moms, I'm like, hey, let's focus on who you are. Like you're not just you're you're multiple people. So let's work on that and and find value in what you're doing. And maybe right now you're in a in a place where you can't work because you have little kids and you have all these things, and that's okay, right? But what's your plan? Like, what do you want to do? Like, how can you start to plant seeds for that future? Because one day your kids are gonna go back to school and all of a sudden you're gonna have more time. So, do you want to start planting seeds now for that next chapter that is in the near future?

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with you, but I also will say on the flip side, and uh, this is coming from my a working mom. I wonder if the working moms have kind of the opposite experience where they can't be as involved, right? Like I can't do the things that some of my co-firewives can do, and I can't go to the firehouse every day and you know host this, this, and that and whatever, because I also am working, which can make me feel a little bit distanced almost, not from my husband, but just from the community. Yeah, and so there's definitely good and bad to both.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

Yeah, I I agree with you completely in that for sure. I think even for myself, like there's that mom guilt, and so and then you add a working mom guilt, it's a whole other level of guilt.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Definitely. I know there's nothing like it really. Yeah, I'm gonna flip this one around. I normally ask for advice for spouses from spouses, but you've already given me so many pearls. So, like, I don't want to just like keep asking the same question. Now I'm gonna ask you for advice, but for kids because you have a child who clearly is very mature and figuring it out, and that is that is a credit to you and what you've done for her. So if you're thinking about advice for parents, like to how to handle it with their kids, or for a child of a first responder, what advice would you give?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

I think one big advice I like to give my first responder families with their children is one being able to identify that, hey, like like I said earlier, our normal, our our normal is abnormal to many people. So let's identify that as well. And there's no shame in that. It's just for you to be able to understand that not everyone has this lifestyle, right? Also, a lot of what first responders struggle with is being present in the moment. And so whether you're fire or law, you a lot of the times those individuals tend to be very hyper-vigilant, which they end up struggling when trying to be present with their families, whether they're out having dinner or you know, they're at home, they're constantly feeling restless. So, what do you do to kind of help be present when you start to identify? Oh, I'm I'm here, but I'm not mentally here, right? So I'm a big advocate for journaling. Like I love to journal. I tell all my clients to journal. Something that I've encouraged my clients and my families to do is journal with their children. And depending on what age they are, right? Like, especially if they're little, like if they're little, I've encouraged them to have their children draw. And so like they could draw together and like have prompts. Like, so for instance, I've had someone where I'm like, hey, sit with your son and tell him, Hey, we're gonna draw today, we're gonna draw right now. Can you draw me? Like, what was the what was the best thing that happened to you today? And then their son will start to draw whatever it is, and they come to me and they're like, Oh my gosh, Crystal, like we actually he was able to tell me all the little things, and I don't think he would have been able to tell me this just directly, right? And so it provides them the understanding of there's different ways to communicate with one another. Communication is key, but not everyone communicates the same. So learning how one communicates is a big part, and also learning the love languages of each other is a bigger part too, right? So, like, even for my daughter, my daughter's love language is is quality time. So, like one of hers is quality time and physical touch. And so my daughter, and I I realized that from a young age because she would literally just want to sit with me. She'd be like, Can you just sit with me? Like, I'm busy, like I'm doing work, or she's like, Can you just sit with me? Like, just you can work, but I just want you to sit with me and like know that you're there. I'm like, Okay. And then when she was like, even still to this day, like she'll randomly just like go like this to me. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like putting her hand out. I just want to hold your hand. And I'm like, okay, that's so cute. So like little things like that. So I'm like, oh, okay, this is your love language, right? And so I being able to understand other people's love languages also helps you as a parent for your children. Like, hey, maybe your kid doesn't want you to buy them a toy, maybe your kid just wants to actually like spend some time with you, like go to go to the park with them, like they will value that time so much more and that memory so much more than you bring them the the newest toy, like right. So I think that's a big part of just learning one to come together, but that communication piece. I think a lot of parents have this misconception of of thinking that their children are too young to understand. Children are far more aware of what is happening around them than adults give them credit for, and I've always thought 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

They really they pick up on a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

I've had parents ask too, because I'm I'm very honest and open with my daughter. I always have been. I've never been one to sugarcoat the world, I've never been one to present rainbows and butterflies with their actually. My husband now, him and I struggled with that in the beginning when we first started dating, because he did not agree with my parenting style. He parented in a way where he was like, I'm gonna keep my kids in a bubble and I want to shelter them. And I was like, You're gonna do more harm than good by doing that. And so we struggled for a long time, and now he's like, I understand why you do what you do. And I'm now he's kind of he's changed his parenting style to kind of be more mine, because I always say, if kids ask you a question about something that you it could be anything, right? More than likely they they think they have the answer of what they're asking you, but they're trying to see what information you're gonna give them, right? So anytime I've my daughters always come to me with a question, I always ask her, Why do you why are you asking me that? And then it will prompt her to say, Well, someone told me this, or I saw this, or I think it means this. So I say, Okay, tell me what you think this means, and I will tell you whether you're right or wrong, and I'll explain it to you. And so I I like to hear what she says because a lot of the times too, a lot of parents and adults have the they want to fix it, they want, they want to just be there for their child. And so a lot of the times what happens with that too is you're planting seeds where maybe seeds don't need to be planted, right? Or maybe you're giving them the emotion that they are supposed to feel or they think that they're supposed to feel, right? So parents are like, Are you sad about it? And they're like, Yeah, I'm sad. Maybe they're not actually sad about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Maybe they weren't.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

Yeah, but an adult said, Are you sad about it? Well, the adult said, I should be sad, or they asked me if I'm sad, so I think I should be sad. So I'm gonna say yes, I'm sad, right? So it's like, no, if a child is coming to you. It's probably because they've come up with their own conclusion. Listen to them first before you give them anything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:05

Wow, that is excellent advice. I feel like you should be billing me for this therapy session. I've learned so much. One other little fun segment that I've been doing is something again. I stole this from another guest as well, but it's called Shift Happens. Do you have any fun stories or maybe not so fun stories of things that happened to you while your spouse was, your ex-spouse was at work?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Oh God, I don't know. It was so long ago. There are so many things, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

Oh, yeah, there was actually so at the at this is right before our old our house before we got divorced. And so we have two dogs. I still have these dogs. One's a labradoodle, and she's crazy at the time. She was much more in her puppy phase. I think she was like two. And we would have the dogs in the backyard. And I was working, and my husband at the time was working as well. And so I get a phone call from a neighbor, and they say, Crystal, your your dog jumped the fence. And she's like, We're all trying to run after her. And she's she's a labberdoodle, so she's like a medium-sized labberdoodle, she's about 50 pounds, probably super fast. Yeah, she yeah, and she's she's black, so like she's super furry, and you just see like this black, like little mop just like running up and down hills. And so I'm like, Oh my god, like and I was at work, I was like, and I I worked relatively far from where we live. So I'm like, I can't come home. Like, what am I gonna do? And so luckily, my husband, he at the time, his patrol he patrolled in the city adjacent to where we were living. Okay, so I call him and I'm like, I need you to do me a favor. Like, this is what happened. And he's like, Okay, I can run, I can run over, right? So he like in his patrol car runs over to our house, like, and it was funny because our dog did not recognize him in uniform. He had she she had never seen him in uniform, and so he comes out of his patrol car. Everyone's like, Why is this again? It's not like yeah, this police officer who's not in the right jurisdiction, like this. Why is he over here? And so they he gets out, and then the neighbors realize, like, oh, that's him. He gets out, whistles at our dog, and our dog kind of like looks over, and she like is hesitant for this is what he tells me. And so he like takes his sunglasses off, and then he like calls her by her nickname, and she all of a sudden like sprints and jumps into the patrol car. She's like, like, you're like, this is who I'm supposed to be with, right? And so then he puts her and like he's like, Okay, she's good, she's in the house now. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like what are the odds? Yeah, so that's what I will always remember. I'm like, Yeah, this is when she was like a puppy, and I'm like, Thank god he he was close enough to where he could handle it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

Yeah, that could have ended much worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Yeah, she would have been gallivanting like in the hills of where we live.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

So my gosh, I'm so glad she's okay.

unknown 1:08:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

Wow, she's lived to tell the tale, which is great. Yeah, no, yeah, definitely. That's great. My last question, I'll let you go. I know you have a softball game to get to. Any, and this can be about anything, doesn't have to be about you know, first responder life or anything. What podcast, book, show, what's like a must-watch, must listen to for you, must read, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:22

I think one not only is he a good friend of mine, but he's also like really big in this space. Is his name is Rich Kramer. There's the Reset Podcast, and it's an amazing podcast for first responders and just this community in itself. I'm in this wellness space. He really talks about just the wellness space in the departments and everything that's happening, and he has the conversations that most people try not to have, he calls it out. And I I appreciate so much that he does that. And I again, he's not only a friend of mine too, but I appreciate the way that he kind of goes about handling this as well, too. And he's he's prior law enforcement, and so he's been in the space for a long time too. Now he's talking about as an advocate, he's working this well in this space for a while. So yeah, he's and you he's from Boston.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

So oh, no kidding. That's cool. That's great. It's it's good to see people who are using their previous experience to do something good and try to change things for the better.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

Yeah, I think, like I said, uh in this space, it's been really interesting, being that I've been in it for so long and seeing people come in and out of it. I mean, him and I talk about it before. It's like you you get the people like the bullshitters for a lack of better term, come in and we're like, hey, I want to jump into the space. It it's a hot topic, it's it's cool. And then you have people who actually have some lived experience and have the knowledge behind it and have more roots in it, and so there makes a big difference in it as well, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

For sure. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. This has been lovely. Is there anything that you wanted to add or or say or mention that I didn't think to ask?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

I think if anything, if anyone is going through a divorce or having a hard time in their relationship, just know that it does, it can get better. So if you're someone that is struggling in a relationship and feels like they're about to hit that point of getting divorced, if you've done everything you could to make it work, you know, sometimes, like I said, sometimes it's better for the both of you to go your separate ways. And now look at the chapter next that's ahead and see how you can approach that differently, right? How can you come together in the as two individuals bettering themselves, but also being able to provide a better foundation for your child? So I think you know, if you're going through that, it's it can be done, but a lot of work needs to be put into place in order for it to come out the way that is beneficial for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

Yeah. That's I mean, it's that's I hate to say it again, but it's another great piece of advice. So thank you for that. This has been great. I really enjoyed talking to you, and I feel like this was a more serious episode, but for good reason. Like all the things you're saying is I think what everybody is feeling and what they need to hear, because otherwise I don't think this would be a podcast. Nobody would be listening, right? We all need this community and we need to learn how to make this life a little easier and a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

Yeah, no, absolutely. And if people want to find me, they can find me on Instagram. I'm at Resilient Line Wellness. And so I really do just kind of talk. I'm I should be a little bit more active on it. I'm trying to, but honestly, it's my least favorite part. I'm not gonna lie to you. I know, I know it's it's a lot, it's still really like uncomfortable for me. Everyone's like, just jump on. I'm like, oh, this is so weird. Yeah, you know, but it's like okay, but ultimately I think like the like you said, build building community and building connection, I think is something that really needs to be done, especially on the spousal side and and the family side. And a lot of the time spouses see the signs before the first responders do. And so spouses can feel supported and validated in what they're experiencing as well. Then hopefully I can provide that for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

Yeah, I think you're probably doing a great job. If today's talk shows me anything, I think you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

Oh, thank you. Well, I appreciate it. And I appreciate you having me on your podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:28

It's oh my gosh, thanks for being on. I'm so happy to talk to you. Anytime you want to be back on, you know, I'd love to hear what other things you have to offer. So so anytime.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Let me know. Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:40

All right, have a great night. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed being here as much as I did. If you have any questions for me or if you'd like to be interviewed, please reach out at the firewivespodcast at gmail.com. You can also follow me on Instagram and Facebook. Tune in next week for the next episode of Firewives.