E21 Rachael

Baddie Police Office

Bad A** Military

First Responder Wife

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hi there. How are you? Good. I'm Noha. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Virtually. I love your podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Thank you for listening. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Oh, no problem. It's great. That's great. Tell me a little bit about yourself. So I am, I wear a lot of public safety hats, but I was a reserve, or no, I am a reserve police officer. I was a full-time police officer. I'm a captain in the military in the Army National Guard. I was a forensic death investigator with the medical examiner's office. And I'm also a law enforcement spouse. So my husband is a deputy over in Illinois. So I kind of I've kind of seen it from a lot of different perspectives. And wow just I just want to share, you know, what I've gone through and like what I, you know, what I've learned.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you for your service. Did you say your husband's in Illinois? Yeah, because we're we're like across the street from it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

We're very close.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Very cool. I'm learning a lot about other people in other departments. And sometimes it's kind of a good reminder for me. Like I've noticed there are things where I'm like, oh, this is so hard. And then I hear people from California and their spouse leaves for like three weeks. I'm like, oh yeah, it's not so hard. 24 hours is okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Well, I'm even finding like with law enforcement spouses and fire spouses, we go through a lot of the same things. Yeah. And I didn't even realize that there were points where I felt like I was alone because I didn't know a lot of other cops' wives. And then I just my one of my really good friends, her husband's a firefighter, and we can, you know, commiserate all the time. It's a little bit different, but it's the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I mean, same concept, right? Like some details are different, but it's the same idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

So I really like that. I like that whole community.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, it's great. I know that they have like a running joke between each other, like, you know, my husband, his name is Robbie. He always tells me, so no offense to you being a former full-time police officer. He says, What do police officers and firefighters have in common? Do you know the answer?

SPEAKER_02 2:18

No, what is it?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

He says they all wanted to be firefighters when they grow up.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

He's not wrong. He, I mean, I truly agree. I've made a mistake, but I won't admit that. No, stop.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

No, no, no, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

But they did a cool job.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah, they do a very cool job and a very difficult, but as do you. Yeah. How did you get started in this field?

SPEAKER_03 2:39

So I had a mentor growing up that he was a local police officer. He'd stop by our house all the time in our community. And then later he went on to be chief. And I was just like, this guy is, I love the community focus of his work, his just he was just someone I looked up to. And I'm like, I I want to be that to somebody, and I want to be a police officer. And of course, I understood all the hard stuff that went into it. And I joined the military before I joined the police department. But I just I wanted to be that person for somebody, like he was to me. Like that, like look at look at what he can do. You know, it's not necessarily even about rising through the ranks, it was just, you know, being that person, that smiling face, the constant.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

That's really nice. Wow. So, how long were you a police officer for? Or you said you started in the military.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Yes. So I'm currently in the military. I did ROTC in college and I commissioned as a second lieutenant. I'm now a captain. I've been in the military for nine years. And in 2020 is when I went to the police academy. And so we were virtual for six weeks. And then I was full-time police officer for a couple of years. I wanted to get into more investigative work. So I went to the medical examiner's office and became a deaf investigator. And I feel like that's where my story really starts about, you know, finding the space before crisis because it was just full-on crisis for me. And I didn't realize that it was till it was too late. And then I'm now a reserve police officer, so I just work court and I write policy for a police department. That's like my full-time job. It's a civilian position.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Wow, that's really cool. Policy for what?

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Like general orders, procedures. I work on the national accreditations. So basically they ask, you know, prove that your department does XYZ and meets our standards. So we have to like go through reports, body cam everything, and prove that we are adhering to these national standards.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Wow. That's so interesting in 2026.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

I know it's it's it's really cool because I started from almost a micro level. Like I was that person who responded to the call. And now I'm at the macro level. And part of my issue that I'm slowly resolving is finding importance still. Like my job is still valuable. I'm still needed. You know, it's I'm not the one responding to the call, but the people on the street need professional staff support in order to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

So absolutely. Yeah. Wow. You know, it's funny you say that. I sometimes feel the same way that like I don't save lives. You know what I mean? But that doesn't mean that that my job is not equally important, it's just differently important.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

So and I I struggled with that.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah. So wow. Okay. So you said you started in the military, and then in 2020 you went to the police academy, and some of it was virtual. How did that go?

SPEAKER_03 5:56

So that requires me bringing up 2019. In 2019, I went to the police academy. I missed firearms by one round. They said, sorry, you're not proficient, you know, that's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

And you can't try again.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

That I mean, that was that was like my redo. I went through remedial and they're just like, this is so important, and I completely understand that. So they're like, you're unfortunately dismissed from this academy. So that was 2019. I had a good cry about it. I signed up for another police academy and I enrolled and started in 2020. So I had been through five months previously out of six months. So I was so close to the finish line. And then I completely started over. So I got 11 months of training when the usual officer gets six. But we were virtual for six weeks. It was like March to May. And the day we come back, we got taser day and pepper spray day. I'll never forget that. It's like, oh, I wish we wouldn't have come back. But it was just, it was a different kind of place counting. And since it was my second go through, I just I wanted to, I just wanted to get through it. Like we we didn't know what the world was coming to when things were virtual. So I was just like, I just we have to get back a person because there's certain skills we need to work on. I need to work on my firearms more, and I did. But I could, I really couldn't have done it without the people who were supporting me. You know, I just like I said, a good cry will do it, but you really need that support system in place.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Most definitely.

unknown 7:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

And then when I was on the road, I met my now husband. So it was once I was a police officer that we met.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Did you work together?

SPEAKER_03 7:45

No. So funny story. I should probably think of a different story, but we met on a dating app.

unknown 7:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

And I saw I could tell he was a police officer. I could just tell. Like he had the like the haircut. And I'm like, he's a police officer, because it was one of the girl talks first. And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, okay, so he's probably not a serial killer. So I'll meet up with him. And we went, we went and got dinner. And honestly, like we just he moved in with me pretty quickly because our schedules were so weird. And I'm like, basically, if we ever want to see each other, like we gotta live together. So within a few months, he had moved into my apartment. And that was uh six years ago. Wow, that's great. And now we have our first home together.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Wow, that's lovely. Congratulations. That's awesome. Thank you. Did you just buy your house?

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Yes, we did.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Great. Wow. Is it the forever home, you think?

SPEAKER_03 8:44

I think so. And I we're already, you know, it's just so many memories, so many fun projects that we're doing this home. And I can tell a big part of him needed this because he gets to go like cut the grass, you know. And I guess for you know, some people that's like decompression things. For me, it's not. For me, that's like the most stressful thing that you could possibly ask me to do. But for him, I've just seen sounds like the military police officer, really. Cutting the grass. No, but he needed an outlet, and we found pickleball, which was good, but I I definitely have seen him relax a lot more now that he can cut the grass.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

That's great. Who knew that's all you needed? Honestly. Wow. And I've heard so much about pickleball. How did you get started with that? Everybody is talking about pickleball.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

So it's so great. My work had a league and it was free. So we're like, well, it's free. You can't get better than that. And we did the league. We were so bad, so embarrassingly bad. Like this was, I was just starting in my professional staff role. I was like, hi, my name's Rachel. Also, I suck at pickleball, and you can probably beat me. And everyone, everyone beat us, but we joined the pickleball club and we kept going every Wednesday. And then the next league came around and we got a little bit better. And then we kept going every Wednesday, and the next league came around because it was it's once a year at my work. And we just keep surprising people by getting a little bit better. Getting a little bit better. And that's pretty much his hobby. Like he he's very work focused. And I I'm learning to admire that about him. At first, I was annoyed about it, but he has, you know, he has pickleball, and now he has like cutting the grass. And I guess I have to accept that his decompressing and my decompressing are completely different. And I because I thought I'm like, you're not doing anything to relax, you're just staring at your phone. But I guess that is relaxing for him. I just it just it took communication. We actually, I mean not communication, but it took me like opening my mind up to hey, maybe people need other things that I don't need. Yeah. Do you think there?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

No, no, no, no, no. That's really it's really important stuff. Do you think that having been a police officer yourself that makes it easier for you to understand where he's coming from?

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yes, and it's terrifying because I it's like I know too much. And I honestly tell myself he's in his drug unit right now, in where he works. So when he leaves in plain clothes, I can be like, he is gonna go work at a normal job. Bye, you know, and I can just kind of turn off the thing in my head saying he is going to this super dangerous thing, you know. I I know too much, I feel like. And we worked in very different communities. I worked in a I would say much safer, friendlier place. And because I like to, you know, like pet dogs and hold babies. And there was, of course, there was danger, but I'm more community focused, and I he wants to, you know, go get him. And I love that about him, but it it makes me worry all the time. I like I have his location, and it's not because I don't trust him, it's because I check it and I'm like, well, he's not in the hospital. That's good, great.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's hard. I mean, technology can be helpful and also it might make you go a little crazy to just constantly know that you can find his location at all times, or you know, you could face time anytime. Whereas I having talked to some kind of older firewives, it's different. They used to just have to kind of put it away and then they come home when they come home, and you just have to trust that they will. I think technology maybe helps us, but also makes it a little bit worse in that way.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

I completely constantly something like I said, sometimes knowing too much is worse than not knowing, especially like if he does something, you know, at night and I'm like, hey, when are you gonna be home? And he hasn't responded. I'm like, okay, like it's I see well what is this? What is this number? What where is he? What is going on?

SPEAKER_00 13:23

So yeah. Do you listen to the radios at all?

SPEAKER_03 13:26

No, good. No, I don't know. I actually don't know how, and I don't want to. I think we we're on completely different, you know, channels and stuff, like where I work and where he works. So I just to me, the less I know the better. But it also has made it really hard because he would come home and be like wanting to offer information about his day, and I'd be like, no, I don't want to hear it. Like I'm trying to like keep up the thing in my head where you go to work at a bank, and so don't tell me about that. But I I realized lately that that is not that's not the answer, and that actually built up more walls than it helped.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

What made you realize that?

SPEAKER_03 14:12

He just like stopped caring about his day, and if he's at work all day, I wanna. I mean, there's you know, like if I can I can't say tell me about your day, but don't tell me about work because that's what you were doing. So now I just have to be like, hey, give me the like PG 13 version of how your day was. And I think he'd learn to like not include anything that would scare me. I I mean, I don't know. I I worked death scenes and I would come home and I would overshare. And I think that's what I'm afraid that he's gonna do. So but he was okay with you oversharing, yes, because he knew that that's how I needed to cope. I am a talker. Like, if something's bothering me, I'm just gonna talk and talk and talk until I have a solution. And he is not a talker. He's gonna like keep it inside until he has a solution. And that's another part of what I don't understand is, you know, how could I know you had a bad day unless you come home and you're like, oh my god, I had such a bad day, this was terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because that's what I would do. I'd come home and rant and rave and you know, whatever. And I guess I wear my heart on my sleeve, but it definitely was it was hard to learn the different styles of emoting, you know. Like I can tell now when he gets home and just scrolls on his phone for an hour or two. Maybe he had a hard day and just needs to like distract himself with something else. It's and I took it personally like, oh, he's on his phone. Why aren't you watching, you know, hanging out with me? Why aren't you talking to me? So it's just it goes two ways, you know? Yeah. Especially when they have hard days.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I think that could be true of anything. I think the hard part is that our spouses or partners see trauma, but it's the same concept. You go to work and you have a bad day and you come home and you don't tell your spouse about it or your partner about it, it's it's not gonna end up in a good communication setting. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Like regardless of if it's fire, police, or banking, and you have a customer who came in and yelled at you or whatever the case is, and you go home and you don't talk about it, it's gonna put up that barrier regardless.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Oh, I completely agree. And I just I want to hear about it all, you know. I and I think we've reached a really good balance of he knows what upsets me and still letting me in, you know, still, oh, I did this cool thing, or like, oh, I have this great opportunity coming up. And I used to be really selfish, and I think I was honestly a little bit jealous because I used to be really like I used to be honestly just be jealous of all the cool opportunities he had, and I I didn't because I wasn't on the road anymore, and I kind of had to let that go and just be happy for him, and that was really, really hard because I wanted to do the cool stuff, and no one told me to give it up, it was just what was best for my mental health, so I was guess I was just jealous that he was like seeming to do fine, also getting to do all the action and stuff. So once once I let go of that, you know, I hate the word jealousy, but maybe like resentment a little bit. Maybe I resented him for getting to do what I wanted to do, and I just accepted that this is my path, and now I'm very happy and fortunate that I'm on this path. I'm able to better connect with him, and there's no competition.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Sorry, that was super deep. No, that's really mature. I was thinking this it's really mature to like recognize that in yourself.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

That it took a while, it took a while in our relationship. I at one point I was just like, how can I look at him knowing he's going and doing this cool thing? And I am not, and I just I tied my identity so in with my job, even though I didn't do it for super long, like being on the road, being a death investigator, I was so I felt so needed that when I got into this role, and I'm still needed, but not on an emergent basis, essentially. Right, I got jealous that he was needed, you know. I I felt like if no one needs me anymore, but they still need me, you know. What would that mean? Like my emergency contact is who you contact in an emergency or something like that. Like, I just I just wanted I just wanted to find a good middle ground, and I it took a long time, but we finally found it. And I think it was a big me thing. And I've also like with this new kind of not new, but I'm been really passionate about wellness for a really long time, but now I'm just starting to share it. And I have been bringing him to conferences, and I love how it's been getting conversations started. It's you know, if because at first he's not like super on the wellness train, you know, not like I am. And you know, he'll leave a seminar that we were at and be like, that was actually pretty interesting. And I like I learned a couple things, and to me, that is huge, because it's not like you're just going for the cool location to this conference. Like he was really internalizing and what this person had to say, and I was just telling him, like, I want you, I like I love you, and I want you to be equipped with whatever you need in case I hope this doesn't happen, but in case something terrible happens and you need to use it, like I want you to have the tools in your toolkit to be able to get through anything because I want to be with you forever, you know. Like, I there's so many personal battles that first responders face, and I just wanted to equip him with all the tools, even if he wasn't gonna go out and get them himself.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

You use the word wellness, and that's definitely a a buzzword on the interwebs these days. What does that mean to you when you talk about tools? What kind of tools do you want him to have?

SPEAKER_03 20:57

So I'll start with what wellness means to me because it looks different than it's not a life overhaul. At the time I was at the medical examiner's office, it was it was quitting my job. That was wellness. But I want people to know you don't have to quit your job to experience wellness. You know, for me, it's going and walking around Target for 20 minutes, you know, right before it closes. It's just working manageable things into your life that give you more than your job, like give you a sense of identity. I started violin lessons like in the middle of this death investigator job, and I was like, that is so random. But now I get to tell people like, hey, I'm Rachel, and I play the violin. Not hey, I'm Rachel and I'm a death investigator. Like I was establishing layers. So wellness is more than just like drinking smoothies, being healthy, going to the gym. It's putting things in your life. To add to you, add to the experience. I mean, truly. And that's all I wanted to do for him. And that's why I introduced him to pickleball. And that's why I'm taking him to these conferences. Maybe he'll find something somewhere that he's like, this is really cool. And I want to like dive, dive into this more. And it seems like he's really doing that like with the house. Like, I didn't know he really likes to cut the grass.

unknown 22:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Maybe that's maybe that's his wellness. Maybe he had a stressful week, and maybe that's why he's like, I'm gonna go cut the grass. And I'm I you know, you just gotta say okay. But maybe that's wellness to him.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

It looks different for everybody. But it's just as important for every person to find their thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Absolutely. I completely agree. And my thing, like I said, you know, maybe my thing is Target, and then I was talking to somebody else, and like, oh my gosh, Target is the like the epitome of a bad dream. Like, I don't want to go there. That's not wellness to me. And I'm just like, okay, so it's interesting to learn, you know, what might be good for me is probably might not be good for you.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Right. It's like the running joke of how moms love going to the grocery store when they get to go alone. But but but then there's a grocery store around me, it's called Market Basket, and it's honest to God, it's a zoo every time you go, like no matter what time of day, you just have to like be prepared to throw elbows so you can grab what you need. And I'm like, that's the opposite of wellness. Like, I want good, healthy food, I want a stocked fridge, but I do not want to go there.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Door dash.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

No, I know. I really should do that. So, how long has he been a police officer?

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Since 2020, also. So he joined his department honestly, right when we met. And he was new there as a deputy, and then he worked his way up into the drug unit. And he, I just I love seeing him love what he does. Like, I I love that for him. As weird as that sounds, like, I love that for him. He's so passionate about it. I just he doesn't have like a favorite sports team, and he doesn't, you know, have when I think of him, I'm like, oh Sean, you know, like he likes cookies and cream ice cream, he likes to go to cromble. Like, there's no like hobbies, and that's why pickleball is so important. But I just I just want him to incorporate more maybe like I said, maybe what's wellness for me isn't wellness for him, but I just I just want the best for him, truly. Of course. On my wedding dress, I had this little heart and said he's my something blue. Oh and I was just like, wait, that's so I just remembered that. I totally forgot I even did that.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

That's so cute. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

When did you get married? Uh 24.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Nice. What do you think your in your experience has been the best part of being married to a police officer? To a first responder.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Yes. I I mean, I'm not gonna say the cliche like I feel safe because uh you know it's important to feel safe with your spouse, but he makes me feel so like secure in myself, and you know, physically, like when we go out, I'm the number one priority. He I can tell he's always scanning, he's always making sure that I'm safe, he puts me on the other side of the street. I just I love watching him love what he does. I love that. And it's I'm trying to apply this to first responders, but it's really to anybody that loves somebody that loves their job. It's just watching someone be so passionate about something and do well at it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I am curious. You said he kind of I don't know how you described it, but he puts you on the inside of the street. Is that what you said? Do you feel like he and he likes scans and you know, classic police officer from any that I have met? Do you think it makes him how can I word this? I know my husband likes to be savior, I guess, for lack of a better term. He likes to save people as as makes sense with him being a firefighter. I think he doesn't mind on the occasions where I am the damsel in distress. You know, like recently I went, I don't remember where what it was, but I had some car troubles. I had to ask a guy for help, and I called my husband in the meantime, and he he literally ran two miles to where I was with the car. Oh my gosh. He loves to run, so it's not that big of a deal. But like two miles to him is like a casual, you know, warm-up for his run. But I'm like, you didn't have to do that. Like I I had it, I could have fixed it. I was just calling you so you know where I was because I was gonna be wild to come home, whatever. It was a very stressful day. I'm not gonna lie, but I was like it. It was, it was. So I'll tell you what actually happened.

unknown 27:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

We go up to Maine and he's working on his sister's house. He was fixing the floor for her because he's a contractor on the side. And his my sister-in-law, who's lovely, told me there's this little cute little beach that's private down the road. Take the kids, go. I was like, great, it's like 80 degrees out. So I drive his pickup. By the way, it's a pickup. We're not talking about a small car. Okay. I drive down there and I get on the road that I think is the road where you park the car. And apparently there's a sign that says private property. So I was like, okay, this beach is public. I know that I saw the sign, but the parking must have been behind me. Let me turn around. And then I get the car literally buried so deep in the sand because like the frame was touching the sand. Because I guess it's like a little man-made beach. So the sand was like super fine. It wasn't like real life sand. So stupid.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

I wouldn't have thought it would do that. Like I thought I would just you would think that you'd be able to do a little quick little YouTube. I would do the same thing that you did. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Like quicksand, like just like quicksand, damn it. So then I get out of the car, I have both my kids in the car, and I start digging it out with my hands because it's like, oh my god, what do I do? I got his pickup truck stuck in the sand. So I'm digging, digging. There's no reception anywhere, and it's two miles from the house we were at. So this is just like such a stupid story. So then I like see this guy and I book it, and I had my kids in the shade. So I took them out of the truck because it was really hot. I put them in the shade. I made my almost five-year-old babysit my one-year-old. I was like, stay right here. And I can still see them, but I had to practice. Good practice. So I go and I get this guy. I was like, I need help. I think he might have thought I was a serial killer, but then he saw the pickup and he was like, Oh, okay, no. I'm to my car. Yeah, yeah. So then he comes over, he helps me. It takes a little while, but in the meantime, I managed to get one bar of service and I called my husband and I was like, This is what's happening. I found somebody to help. Worst case, I'm gonna walk. It's two miles, like I can walk. And so anyway, the guy comes back, he goes to get like a shovel and whatever, we shovel it out. And as the car gets back, the guy's like, this has happened before. He did. He's like, You're not the first person. So it's clearly it's quicksand. So then my husband shows up. He's running down the street, he shows up, and I was like, I can't believe you just did that. Like you just ran in 80 degree weather just to come because his damsel in distress needs help again. You know what I mean? So I guess what I'm asking you, do you feel like it's a very long-winded way of asking you? Do you feel like your husband likes when you need him? When he is the protector, he is the, for lack of a better word, the macho man.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

I think I would say yes, because I am the type of person I like to be taken care of. So I kind of like present the opportunity. You know, he is the chef in our household. Like if he knows that if he didn't cook, I would literally starve. I don't know how to cook. I don't even know how to make macaroni. So DoorDash, you'd be fine. DoorDash. But I mean, I should get them to sponsor this episode. Sponsored by not officially, but I I feel like I put myself in those situations to like allow that. So I don't know. It's not it's not bad. I like being, you know, I like being dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

It's not a bad thing. So it's nice having somebody who would run two miles in the heat to to dig out the truck for you. It's very nice.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Absolutely. And I feel like he would, I hope he would do that for me. I don't know about the running two miles situation. He'd probably call an Uber, but he would get there.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

He should have called an Uber, honestly. But yeah, he would get there. Exactly. That's the most important part.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

I completely agree. And I just I I love that he does that for me. And he does, I feel like when he goes to work, maybe he, you know, does that for people, like he's, you know, the person they call in a crisis. So if he's so great to me, I feel like he's also really great to the community, which makes me feel good.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Absolutely. I mean, that's one of the appealing things about being with a public servant, right? What do you think the hardest part or the worst part has been?

SPEAKER_03 31:57

I would say honest conversations about feelings because I think with the first responder world, there is a lot of stigma still about like candidly talking about your feelings. And I think maybe he has enrolled in the way of just, oh, it's part of the it's part of my job. I'm just gonna, this is what I signed up for. And it's it's not, it's not like trauma and grief and all these big heavy things don't just have to be part of the job. So I think that's the hardest part about being with the first responder is getting them to be real with themselves, you know, because the second I was real with myself, I was like, wait, I literally can't do this job anymore. Like it just it kind of, and I think that that's where the practical, you know, strolling through Target comes in. Just you can be real with yourself and you can still do this job, and you can be real with your family. Like, hey, I had a horrendous day. You don't have to go into details, but I think right now we're getting we're we're getting there, you know, and it's hard. I just I want more people to have these hard, honest conversations, either with themselves, with a friend, with a leader, with anybody, with their wives, spouse, husband. Just talking to somebody will open the door for just much better conversations and a much better culture.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

I think this has been a running theme. It's really tough because I don't think that I don't foresee it changing anytime too soon, right? Like they can talk big talk, but when it comes down to it, you try to get him to go see somebody.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Right. And it's hard because like we we like I said, we go to these conferences, we go like we have the EAP. My department luckily has a fantastic wellness unit. I'm on the peer support team. So when there's a tough call, the supervisor will let the wellness supervisor know. He tells the peer support team, we reach out to the officers. Hey, I heard you had a hard call. Let's talk about it. You don't want to talk about it? All right, that's fine. What are your plans for the day? You're gonna go to the gym, you're gonna go get food, what are you gonna do this weekend? You know, just kind of directing them into a healthy path, offering resources. And I think a lot of departments and places don't even have that. So, how can how can people look to these resources that they don't have?

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Right?

SPEAKER_03 34:45

So that's another one of my rants. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

No, no, no, it's really not a rant. It's it's so important. I've talked to almost every every spouse about this, like, especially spouses who are you know younger, not like of the older generation. We all feel this way. Like times are different, it's not the same as like I am man, I go to work, I come home, and you deal with it, right? Like, we all are functional adults, and we need you to be functional, which means you need to get help, you know.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

And just looking fine does not mean you're functional. Like during my like probably worst part at the medical examiner's office, I looked so good on social media. I was having so much fun, I was doing all the things because I look I looked I looked fine, but I you know interesting. I wasn't yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

So wow, that is really interesting that you can reflect back on that and recognize that lots of therapy.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Yeah, well, good. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Do you think that makes it easier for you to recognize that in other people? So you see something on social media, is it easier for you to think that's probably not real?

SPEAKER_03 35:57

I'm starting to get better at it, but I also I think just the more we educate people about you mean it's it's okay to not be okay and to talk about it, and you don't have to put out this like fake personality and fake front. I'm just hoping to educate people so that I don't even have to see that anymore. Because if someone's not okay, I want them to come to me and say that they're not okay, or come to somebody and say that they're not okay, not just I'm gonna keep posting on social media and wait till somebody sees the cracks through this.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

So I just like I said, more honest conversations, hard conversations between partners, friends, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah. How do you think you're gonna do that? Do you have a plan? Are you gonna practice as some sort of wellness person? Or do you mean just friends and people in your life?

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Well, I'm starting small. I'm not like a I'm not a clinician, I'm not a professional. I am just taking something that I'm passionate about and talking. So I've been invited to a couple conferences to have some like breakout sessions, and I'm just basically trying to spread the word that you know functioning does not mean fine. And that's my elevator pitch essentially. So if I can get people to subscribe to this, like, you know, hey, she's talking about it, and it's not easy to talk about. Maybe I can talk about it. That's that's really just my goal is to get people talking.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Do you think you would ever want to become a clinician of of that sort?

SPEAKER_03 37:29

I've actually been my my therapists that I would be like a good, like I should send a social work or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

It's I mean, it's not out of the realm of possibility. I do love my job now though, so is it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah. Yeah. What part of your job do you like right now?

SPEAKER_03 37:48

I love it's such a good balance. Cause at first, when I was worried that I wasn't needed, I went on a two-week vacation and I came back and there were no fires, no emergencies, and I was just like, oh, nobody needed me. That's horrible. And now I can literally be like, I can take a couple days for myself and nothing will fall apart. So I love the balance. It's the healthiest balance I've ever had. I love the hours. I love the people I work with. I love being able to be involved in law enforcement still and not be on the road. Like I can use my past experience to contribute to, you know, a policy, a procedure. I created a death investigation form for our department to help officers better investigate deaths more efficiently. So it's just I can draw from my experience to make actual fundamental changes, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:45

In a good way. Big picture changes.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Yes. And I didn't see that at first. I just saw nobody emailed me over my two-week vacation. So apparently nobody needs me.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

I mean, that sounds like a dream. Wow. Do you find in your position now that I was kind of joking earlier, what an interesting position to be in in 2026. But do you find that, you know, current happenings with police, current difficulties with body cams, all that stuff? Is that something you deal with much?

SPEAKER_03 39:16

So what happens with my job is it a lot of it comes from the command staff down. And so we're not active necessarily actively creating these policies. It's mostly policy revisions, but we do take into account, you know, legislation that goes into effect that is needs to work our way into policies. So there is an effect on our work because we have to adapt based upon the environment, but I I just I don't think I feel it personally just because our work goes through so many like layers before it comes down to us.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Right, right. Do you and Sean talk about that much?

SPEAKER_03 40:05

Yeah, so he's gonna hate me for saying this, but he doesn't really understand the importance of my job and advises me of that. How so sometimes he just I guess he doesn't understand how you can because my position's hybrid and I don't know, he's just like what falls who did you write today in like a joking way, and while he's out there like saving the world. So I don't know how that works a thing. We're we're fixing that. Okay. We're getting through it, yeah. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

I wonder if that's just something that first responders feel like they might have to do to just continue feeling like what they're doing is like they feel like it's not important, but you know, part of the like jaded, you know, sometimes when you and I I see right there, but I'm like, you don't you don't need to do like that to me.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

Like I'm literally your wife. Like I know what I'm doing is important, I know what you're doing is important, so let's just leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Right, right. Well, good for you for speaking up. That's good.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

He's but I love him, he's great.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

No, I know, I know. You can have disagreements, and you know, it's that doesn't change the fact that you love each other, that he treats you well, right? Yeah. What advice would you give to somebody who's moving into our positions as spouses to first responders?

SPEAKER_03 41:31

It is so incredibly important to be patient because the day that your partner does have a hard call, you I mean, you don't want that day, but the way they're gonna come home might be different than you expected or have in the past. And it's just so important to be patient because you want to be that safe place when they are ready to share what they went through. They want to be able to look at you and feel supported and feel loved, and no matter what happened, to know that you will have their back and you have to build that foundation every single day and until this event. I mean, it may never happen. This thing where they need to lean on you, but I'm I bet something small at least would happen where they need to come home to a safe place. So just being patient is key.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah. That's super important and can be super difficult.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

I agree. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Right. Like just to to your point about wellness and getting help. Sometimes you just don't you just want to shake them and be like, okay, get to the point already.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Yeah, like, or just like, what is wrong with you? Like, I know something happened. What was it?

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Right. But then doing that would probably just defeat the purpose.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Yeah, absolutely.

unknown 42:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Or ruin any progress you've made, I should say, not defeat the purpose, but oh yeah, no, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

Cause then they wouldn't feel like they could come to you. Yeah, no, I get that.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Yeah, and I probably wouldn't want somebody to do that to me either.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

So I get it. Because when I'm ready, I'm ready. When I'm ready, I will talk about it. But yeah, me personally, I will talk about literally anything at any time for any amount of time. So that's nothing anyone's ever had to worry about. Like Rachel will talk. I will talk until someone tells me to stop.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

So which is why you're a great guest. I love that. What impact do you feel this has had on your marriage? Being married to a first responder, not always knowing where they are. I mean, in a way, what I'm asking about is my previous guest, we talked about some of the stereotypes that can happen. Is that something that you have faced where? I'll tell you, in fire, there's a stereotype. Type that firefighters are cheaters. Is that something that's typical in police? I don't, I'm not married to a police officer, so I don't know. Is that something that you've heard about or see about? Do you worry about?

SPEAKER_03 44:11

I have, you know, heard about that in all first responder, you know, the I've seen statistics. I think it just boils down to the individual relationship. I really, the only thing I'm worried about him is did I say goodbye, I love you when he left that morning because will I get to say it again?

unknown 44:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

That's literally all I care about. That's the most important thing to me. And it's awful.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yep. We make a point of always saying that every time we leave the house, every time we hang up the phone, because you just don't know.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Yeah. And the only people who will understand that is other first responder spouses.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Even if they're not going to work, right? Like it doesn't matter. Absolutely. It doesn't matter. Teaches you that, you know, life is fleeting.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Especially when I worked at the medical examiner's office and I saw every type of everything, every minute of the day. It was terrifying. So that put it even in even more perspective, but it's always goodbye. I love you. No exceptions. Like, or if we're in a disagreement, we're gonna solve it before you go to work because we're not leaving this one open, you know. But it's just it's it's sad that it has to be that way, you know. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

And it's made me a little sad.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Yeah, sorry, I teared up a little bit. No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

That happens that sometimes you talk about this stuff and you're like, you know, I haven't processed that.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

Yeah, I haven't said that out loud, honestly. I don't think. Like, but it's it I mean, and it's for it's I know that's for any job, anything could happen in the world, but like the the possibility of what my husband is running into is probably crazier than normal years to an extent, you know, to an extent, and I don't know if there's any statistics on like the safety of police versus fire, but fire is a fire, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:29

People are not that fires are predictable, but people are unpredictable, you know, and there's so much contention about police officers now, so I I could see how it maybe right now it's a little bit of a tougher time to be a police officer.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

I just I appreciate him and what he does, and I it took a while, but I do fully support him. I mean, now that I'm not wishing that I was in that position anymore, and now that I've kind of gotten past myself, I was my own worst enemy at that, honestly. So I I fully support him, and I just I hope he has a really good career and gets to do whatever he wants to do, and I hope I hope there's a happy ending.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

I mean, that's all you can do is he's going to work every day, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Did he ever call you out on it that you were to use your word jealous?

SPEAKER_03 47:27

No, I've called myself out on it, like to him, and it didn't make me feel any better, and it didn't get me over it any faster. I could just put a label on it, but it didn't I it took a lot of soul searching to be content and realize that my identity was my job, that's not healthy. It's not, I literally did nothing else. Like that was just hi, I'm Rachel, the copslash medical examiner, like insert, you know, job here. And once I kind of put that in perspective, then I mean I was in my own way, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Yeah, yeah, really good for you for figuring that out.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

Thank you. It saved my marriage. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

There's a little funny segment that we do called Shift Happens. I don't know if you've listened to any of those yet. Has anything happened while your husband has been on shift that you have thought, of course, this would happen while he's on shift and not when he's home.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Um oh gosh, I was ready.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

I was ready for anything that you were gonna ask me, but not that one.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

My gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

So something like that happened at home that he was at work. Yeah. Oh man, I've probably been to something like really cool that he was at work for. I go to a lot of cool stuff. Like what? What do you mean? Uh like I went to the Savannah Bananas and he had got called in for work. I mean, I we work interrupts plans all the time. That's just part of being a first responder spouse, especially like he's on call every so often. So that's just part of it.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

And you still go, you still do your thing.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

I still go, I still do my thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

That's great. What are the Savannah Bananas?

SPEAKER_03 49:26

You don't know what Savannah Bananas are? It's a minor league baseball team. Uh-huh. Not minor league, it's like a fun baseball team. Okay. And they dance and play baseball. Google Savannah Bananas.

unknown 49:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Well, done. I will look them up. My question was more like have you had like a previous guest was telling me about how they had a bear.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Oh, I think it was a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Yeah, they had a bear. Was it a bear? It was her name is Roe. And she was, I thought it was a bear that was going after their like livestock. And her husband was no.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

Luckily, like everything is like a knock on wood, you know, the big storms, everything happens when he's home, or else I would just go to my parents' house.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Yeah. Yeah. Well, if that happens as soon as we hang up, I want a redo of the story. Call me. Let me know. That's great. Does he is he home every night?

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Yes. That's great. Except, I mean, he when he's on call, who knows? But for the most part, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Is he on the floor? And that's really good.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

No.

unknown 50:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

So it's nice to be able to have the routine of dinner together. I know a lot of first responders don't get that, and I don't take that for granted, is being able to eat dinner with him every night. It's dinner for some reason is like very important to me. It's the time where you can come together at the end of the day, even if it's just like a 15-minute dinner over leftovers and just be together. Dinner has always been very important to me. And the fact that he's home for dinner every single night, I am extremely lucky in this season of our lives. Who knows what his next assignment will bring him?

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah. How often will he get reassigned?

SPEAKER_03 51:16

Just at the discretion of the department.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Got it. Got it. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

When they're when they're feeling it. Yeah.

unknown 51:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

But let's not put that in the universe.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Nope. Nope. We're taking it back. Is there anything that you would want to share that I haven't asked you? Any other part of you that you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_03 51:37

I feel like we had a really good conversation. I just definitely I think it's important just to know that abandoning your identity isn't what you have to do to support somebody else's passion. Like you can be two whole people together supporting each other. And that took me a hot minute to come to. So just if someone can get to that sooner than I did, that's that'd be great.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

That's a really brilliant way to put that. It definitely is something that first responder spouses can fall into that trap. Right. Myself included. Like I have a full career. I went to a hell of a lot of school. And I still often find myself thinking, my husband's a firefighter. Right. And that's a good thing. It's a pride, it's a point of pride, and I'm very proud of him, but that doesn't define me.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

Absolutely. It's all the cool stuff that you've done.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Right. And I I mean I continue to try to do, right? But and same to you. We're we are full whole people. And that's kind of yeah, it's kind of why I wanted to do this, you know, to just kind of have it.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

I like I love what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Thanks. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. All right. My last question for you. Any recommendations for some sort of entertainment, book, podcast, show, TV, movie, doesn't have to be about fire or or first responder. Anything that you just like everybody should watch this, everybody should listen to this.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Okay, so I read 150 books a year, generally speaking, I think legitimately legitimately. So I just finished like I have a lot of catching up to do. I just finished the best book ever, ever, ever. Okay. And it's called Mad Mabel by Sally Hepworth. And it has nothing to do with literally anything that we've talked about, but I love it.

unknown 53:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

And I love the character. It's an 81-year-old serial killer. And it's I love that.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Is it based on a true story? No.

unknown 53:38

No. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Man, how cool would it be? Yeah. That's awesome. What else? 150 books a year. Give me a second recommendation.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

I'm like looking over at my bookshelf. Um, None of Us Are Guilty here by Karen Slaughter. I like thrillers. I don't like police procedural. Like, I don't want to read how you like lifted prints off of like I know, done that before. I want to read about how like she, you know, her sister, you know, wanted to kill her husband and like all the secrets and the lies and the like the drama. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Wow, that's awesome. Okay, thank you. I wrote both of those down. Those are gonna be my next thing. I've been hearing a lot about a book called Yesteryear. Did you read it yet?

SPEAKER_03 54:25

I'm in the middle of it right now.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

So far, so good.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

It's not getting me because the character is so unlikable.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Really? I've had two people who are like must read.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Yeah, and see that me too. So that's why I'm gonna power through. I'm like 10 pages in, and I'm just like, I do not like her. But like maybe that's what will draw me in. So I just started, but okay. I'm gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Are you one of those people who has to finish a book once you start it? Yes. Really?

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Why? I've only DNS'd like three books. I just want to know what if I'm missing out on a really good story.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

But if it's not catching you and there's one million books in the world, more probably more than a million books.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

But what if it gets better later?

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Is it worth your your time investment?

SPEAKER_03 55:15

I mean, I'd say it is.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

My husband does that, and he's like, Yeah, I've I've been reading this book, and uh, it's just boring and this and that, but the last 10 pages are really good. Yeah. Is it worth reading an entire book for 10 pages?

SPEAKER_03 55:30

There's so many good books. Also, read the let them theory if you're into like self-help type of books. I'm not either, but it was good. The let them theory.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Yeah, I have never read a self-help book.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

Me neither. And that was my first one, and I actually apply it every day.

unknown 55:49

Really?

SPEAKER_03 55:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Will it be too much of a spoiler if you tell me what you apply to your everyday life? Yes, because it's the basis of the whole book. Let them, let them do what they want, let them think what they want.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

Essentially.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

See, I don't need self-help. I helped myself.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

You just got the title, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Right, right. I think that's a little bit of a spoiler. They they should have done something a little more mysterious. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you. I appreciate this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

I love chatting.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

This was great. Thank you. And thank you for your service. I know, I know these shifts in ears, but thank you for what you do.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

Thank you. And thank you for what you do. That's I mean, that's awesome. We need what you do. So I'd love to stay in contact and yeah, I would love that.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

You have my Instagram, you have my email. Reach out anytime. Awesome. Sounds good. All right, bye. Take care. Have a good day.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

Bye. You too.

unknown 56:39

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed being here as much as I did. If you have any questions for me or if you'd like to be interviewed, please reach out at the firewivespodcast at gmail.com. You can also follow me on Instagram and Facebook. Tune in next week for the next episode of Firewives.