3-Time Olympian Anicka Newell on Fear, Performance & Working With Your Nervous System

In this episode of The Hidden Story, Dr. Vassilia sits down with Anicka Newell — a 3-time Olympian and elite pole vaulter — for a conversation about fear, pressure, resilience, and what it really takes to perform at the highest level without abandoning yourself in the process.

Together, they explore:

• What fear actually feels like at the Olympic level
• Why resisting fear often makes it stronger
• Learning to work with your nervous system instead of against it
• The psychology of high performance and self-trust
• How identity, pressure, and perfectionism affect athletes and everyday people alike
• What it means to keep pursuing what you love, even when fear is present
• How Anicka now helps others regulate their nervous systems and embrace discomfort differently

This episode is about more than sports. It’s about the hidden story underneath fear — and how growth often comes from learning to move with it rather than trying to eliminate it.
If this episode resonated with you, make sure to like, comment, and subscribe for more conversations on resilience, psychology, performance, healing, and the patterns that shape our lives.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the hidden stories. That's based for the conversations we don't usually have outline. I'm your host, Dr. Basilia Binnett, and here we're going to explore real stories of resilience and the moments that change us. Every life has a hidden story. Let's tell the stories that change everything. Hi, and welcome to the hidden story and the host at Dr. Vasilia Binnett. Thank you for joining me today. Before we get started, don't forget to follow and subscribe. Go over to my Instagram, Dr. Vasilia, where you will find a link to my Substack. And you also find some of my mental health journals and other resources. Today our guest is going to be Annika Newell. She is an Olympic pole vaulter. And stick around for the end where we will talk a little bit more about her story and then I will answer some audience submitted questions, just general mental health questions. So let's just dive into it. Hi, Annika. It's so great to have you. Thank you for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Thank you so much for having me today.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

All right. Well, maybe you can um just kind of introduce yourself to our audience and um tell us about your Olympic journey where you are now.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, so my name is Anica Newell. Um, like you said, I'm a three-time Olympian. I compete for Canada. My family's Canadian, so I grew up in the state. I have duels. Um and I I really don't like the cold. So I train as far south. I trained Eastern Texas, uh, which I love. And uh yeah, this is my 10th year as a pro pole vaulter, and this is also my last year as a pro pole vaulter. So I am entering retirement four right now, and I'm I'm both really excited and uh a little bit sad to have this journey ending.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah, well, thank you. And yeah, I was wondering that. Um, how does it feel just knowing that this is your last year and what brought you to that decision?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Um, you know, I think if if you know professional sports, you know how much sacrifice goes into it. You know that it is a round the clock job and it it is a whole year. Like I get four weeks off of an off season to kind of relax and unwind, but that's four weeks out of the entire year. Other than that, you know, training, I'm continuing. Um, I'm having to say no to going to birthdays, go to girls' trips, go to weddings because either I have competitions or I need to stick to my routine. So I just, you know, I've I've sacrificed a lot and I don't regret any of it at all. Like this has been the most insane journey of my life, but I think I'm ready to kind of enter that next era of my life.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yeah, that makes sense. Like I didn't realize like it's that much. You basically get like one month off, and the rest of the time you are training.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, it is it's 11 11 month commitment for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Wow, wow. I actually had no idea. I mean, I knew obviously Olympic athletes train a lot, but um I didn't realize that there's so little balance in life when you're doing that throughout the year.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah. And you know, coaches say try and find balance, but ultimately there is none. When you're completely like you have to be all in, you just have to be all of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

What are some of your plans for after this year?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Um, I honestly I haven't given it too much thought. I have some ideas, I have some ideas, but I'm kind of more of a we're gonna cross that bridge to get to it. I will for sure end up doing some coaching because I do that already and I love it. I love working with kids. Um, so that'll be in the plan somewhere. But besides that, uh, you know, this door is gonna close and like every other door will be open. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, so which Olympics did you compete in?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

So my first one was Rio 2016, then I competed at Tokyo 2020, 21 due to COVID, and then this last one Paris 2024.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Wow, that's amazing. What is it like going there? And did you notice a difference between like your first, second, or third Olympics?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, the first Olympics I went to was straight out of college, and it was my first international competition ever, and it was like the biggest state of the world at the Olympics. Uh so to say I was nervous with the understatement. Um I'm not gonna lie, I choked. I choked at that one. I was just the nerve got to me. Um, and then Tokyo 2021. I was much better prepared. I had learned that I had I was more disciplined, I was ready to go. So I competed really well there. And then the Paris Olympics, um I I feel really good about unfortunately. I had an I was struggling with an Achilles injury the majority of that year. So it was just it was a little bit tough, but ultimately I'm really proud of the way that I did a thousand.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, that makes sense also, and also like the the choking, you know, like how do you get into the mindset? Like, what did you do differently between Rio and Tokyo that helped you get into that mindset?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

So obviously with each experience, you take it as a learning experience. So going into the next Olympics, it's like, okay, number one, I've been here before. I know what to expect, I know how big the stadium is gonna be, and I know how I need to perform and what kind of athletes are gonna be there. So I'm able to put myself in that mindset. And my whole thing is I'm I always wear a watch, and um, you're not actually allowed to wear an apple watch because you can't have electronics. I wear a regular one, and I give myself five minutes when I enter the arena, five minutes to kind of like you know, cry a little bit, take it all in, and then it's game like the tunnel vision, boom, five minutes up, and we're tunnel vision, and I'm in my essentially my practice mindset that we've been training for the last four years. So and then it's just the memory.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, it's muscle memory, right? You just have to let yourself get to the muscle memory by not letting like your mind get in the way, essentially. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

The hay is in the barn, the hay is in the barn.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And like the five minutes, so it's like because you're not you're not suppressing those feelings. Like it's natural to take it all in and be in awe or be overwhelmed, and you're not saying it can't feel that way, but you are boxing it into a certain amount of time and then allowing it, feeling it, and it's kind of like letting your nervous system like acclimate a little bit and say it's okay, and then that's it, you know, and cutting it off at that certain time and like getting into so they coach you in how to get into a certain mindset.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yes, absolutely. And I'm a I'm a big believer in, you know, nerve nerves are essentially energy. So I'll let myself feel the nerve, you know, the butterfly, and let them kind of go wild for a little bit. And then when it comes time, my butterflies are ready to fly information. Ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

That's a good analogy. I like that fly information. But you're actually absolutely right. Um, that is the nervous system. You know, people try to suppress these things. They actually come out later sometimes. They come out as anxiety or panic attacks when people are just like least expecting it because they're not allowing their nervous system to do its natural thing. That is just regular energy. And instead of being afraid of it, you're just like allowing yourself to feel it, which is exactly like what people should be doing, even sometimes when it's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Even when it's uncomfortable, yeah. And I do the same thing for like fear, for example, because I'm in a very dangerous sport, and you know, I I love I love feeling fear because I know that I I just get to challenge myself to overcome it. But I let myself feel the fear and let it fill me up. And I just know that like I can handle it.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

And you feel the fear like in a physical way as well, in a very physical way.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Sometimes I'm at the very back of the runway and my hand is is shaking because whether it's um in pole ball team, we jump on different poles throughout the competition. And sometimes my coach will put me on a much bigger pole than I'm used to jumping on. Um because I block on that one, but I can hopefully jump higher and I'll be at the back of the runway shaking because you know, if I do something wrong or if I hesitate, I could potentially be jumped back out on the runway instead of making it into the map. So there's that danger element, which is ultimately pretty exciting, but yeah, I let myself, you know, really embrace the fear and and feel it.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Wow. Were you always like that, or is that something that you had to learn?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

It's definitely something that I have to learn. Although when I was younger, I was a gymnast. So it was a very similar mindset. But I think I've I've very much honed in on my uh on how I handle it now.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, it's actually amazing to hear because you know, when we watch it on TV, it's like we feel like all of these athletes, I wouldn't doesn't really enter our mind. I think that they're afraid or uncertain. They just look so powerful. They're doing things that we could never imagine our bodies doing. And so to hear you say that, that you do experience fear and nervousness, but that you like you use it as a tool.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Yeah, definitely. I know when you're on the outside looking in, I feel like our job is to make it look and to be very composed when we're doing it. So ultimately, yeah, there's a lot of things going through our head at the back of the redway for sure, that a lot of people don't really know or understand.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, I just wouldn't think about that, you know. And we're I think most of us just we're regular people, we're just like in awe. Um, and you know, can't even imagine that you would feel that way. But that's I think it's helpful for people to know that, you know, that even elite elite athletes can experience those things.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, absolutely. We're essentially just like everybody else, though we have the nerves and the fear and the excitement, like all the same emotion, but everybody else has.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah. And and so what is it that made you choose pole vaulting?

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Um, I I actually got forced into it in in high school. I was um on the track teams and I was drinking and doing long jump and hurdles. And uh the coach was like, Hey, we need more women in the field event, specifically pole vault, like we could get some points at pole ball. He knew I was a former gymnast. He was like, Hey, he's like, try pole vault. I'm looking at it like I'm not trying that, like I don't want to try it. But I guess it was the right decision.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

That's interesting, yeah. So this is not something that you'd seen people do or watched in previous Olympics and said, Oh, one day that's gonna be me. It was just kind of like, hey, I I am a coach and no that can see that you have that in you, get over there.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Essentially, yeah, yeah. I mean, it looks so foreign. Like, who the heck wants to jump over a stick with another stick? Like, it's just the whole thing doesn't make sense to be honest. But yeah, I mean, I went and tried it out if ended up winning skate my very first year and then getting recruited in my second year.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

That's amazing. It seems like you know, from whatever I've watched pole vaulting, um, do you have to like relax your body as you're going over that, like as you're going over that bar? Like, what do you do? What do you do with your body as you're just propelling it like that?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

I will say there's nothing relaxed about it. I have probably like every muscle in my body is like pensed up as much as possible. Um essentially, you know, you're trying to expel up and over the bar. So it takes a lot of core, it takes a lot of shoulders, and it takes a lot of air and body awareness. You're also trying to figure out, you know, where the bar is. Like the bar is lava. You don't touch the bar. So you have to figure out where it is if you maneuver your body around it. So it takes a lot of like contortion and you know, like I said, for and muscle balance and strength while you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

It's a lot of work. It is a lot of work and like what we call like proprioception, like knowing where your body is in space, and like you said, uh, where is that bar? And like it's just actually incredible. I think people might not even realize like how incredible that is, and and also that this is like a basic conversation about like nervous system. Like, how do you regulate it? How do you um stay with your body? How do you let that muscle memory take over? And how do you know where you are, like floating in space, and you only have like a few seconds to do all of this?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah, and and really like I and as a coach myself, I only ever give an athlete like one of maybe two things to think about in that. And I myself thought like one thing in the jump that's gonna make the most effect or the difference in the jump, and I'll let my body just do the rest. Like it's all gonna come together if I do one thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah. I feel like that is a metaphor for so many other things in life, you know, like right, where people are overthinking certain things or um yeah, think taking on too much at once and like maybe not trusting. I feel like to me, that's like what beginner's luck is like in certain things, is like because they're not thinking about it that much and they don't care if they're right. And then once you want it, once you start focusing on it, that's what starts messing you up.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

I would completely agree. I also think a lot of people focus on the uncontrollables too much. And I'm somebody that like you know, I'm full as a cucumber. I cannot control the weather, I cannot control the direction that the wind is blowing, I can't control, you know, if there's gonna be sun right in my eyes, or or you know, like I hear the sound of a the the gunshot on the track with the runners running by, like I can't control those things. I just I let that go.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Wow. I mean, is that is that kind of your personality, or is that something you've had to work on?

SPEAKER_01 15:03

A little bit of both, a little bit of both. Um, I mean, if if you ask my friends, they they could tell you like I could stay relaxed in the middle of a tornado. But um, but I will say I've definitely I've worked on it a lot in regards to competition. Um, and I've read a lot of literature about it as well to just help prepare myself at the and get in the right headspace to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah, I think that's just such a good lesson also for you know, for those of us who have anxiety. It's like, I mean, I would be worried about the weather on, you know, for a Saturday. Like I'd be, you know what I mean? Like that would get me all spun up, you know, no less um doing something like this, you know, I'd be thinking about all the things that I couldn't control and you know, trying to put that stuff out of my head. Um, and you've, you know, partly just how you are, but then partly like kind of learning to just let those things like pass you by, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yep, probably.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah. What are um, what would you say are some of the obstacles that you faced along the way?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Um, some of the biggest option obstacles have been injuries. Um, that's you know, I I say the same prayer at the beginning of every single year. My prayer is always, can I get through the season without a major injury? Um I have yet for that to come true. Really? It's it's just part of the sport. It's just it's gonna happen. Um, and honestly, I think that going into a season you don't want to be prepared for an injury or like expect it to happen, but you want to know that like mentally, you know, if if and when it does happen, like you're gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Like every athlete struggles with injuries, um, minor and major, and pain is really just part of the game. So you deal with it the same way you deal with practice. You show up every day, do your rehab, and you do the things that again are in your control, and you get through it.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Are there are there some injuries that have like set you back more than others?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, I have like chronic Achilles pain, which this is the first year that we finally kind of identified where it's coming from. So thankfully uh I'm my Achilles feel great right now. But I had two years, I had 2024 at the Olympics. I had a really bad Achilles injury, and that that set me back. That was really hard. Um, mainly because even when I was coming back and I was getting stronger, I didn't fully trust myself and my body. And I feel like that's kind of the hardest thing for an athlete is like when I'm coming down the runway, I want to feel 100%. I want to feel confident in my body when I'm coming down. If you're kind of bracing or expecting pain every step, yeah, that's not confidence. You're not gonna, you're not gonna feel very good.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

That makes a lot of sense. Like bracing or flinching, like there are a lot of sports where they say, yeah, you can't flinch. Like you have to, if you're bracing yourself, that it's gonna throw you off or you're not gonna be able to accomplish your go all in.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah, no, absolutely. It's gotta, it always has to be pretty much like a green light go. You can't be in the yellow light or red light zone. It it has to be full, full green light. Um yeah, I feel like injuries have been probably the biggest obstacle that I've always had. Um, as well as just just finances, like, you know, when those injuries happen, like how much does treatment cost, how much does surgery cost, how much, you know, like all of the different like chairo, physio, like all the supplements we take. I mean, it's a lot. And track and feel is is not like NFL or MBA, like we're you know, we're not making that kind of money.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

So yeah. I think people have an idea that elite athletes, like you have a team, you just have all of this around you. It's like provided for you, you're sponsored, like that, you know, financially that it's not an issue. But you know, I think we're seeing more and more that that's not the case for so many people, even if that they're at the top of their game.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah, no, we in the track world, we do not have that. You are very lucky if you have a full, a full team to work with. And more often than not, it's like we have different areas for different things. So, like our track might be 30 minutes from our house this way, our physio might be 45 minutes this way, and then the weight room's another 15 minutes this way. It's like we're constantly just having to like go all these different places and spend all this different money. Like, I pay for a gym membership. I'm not at some Olympic gym with other elite athletes. Like, I'm at, you know, I'm at a regular gym, and sometimes I do it like embarrassed because I'm doing crazy lifts and jumping around, and people are probably like, oh, this girl just wants attention. But like, no, it's it's all my the mic's like it's all my machines on my code set.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, I mean, what you're talking about, just like the amount of sacrifice that it takes to to get to the sport and then to stay in it um and to keep coming back. Like it's just an incredible amount of sacrifice, not just like with the time commitment, but with the financial commitment and like all of these other things you have to do, like if we get injured.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, no, it's commitment is the key word for sure. And ultimately, like I feel like track and field athletes, we really understand each other. Like, we are doing it for the pure love of the sport. It's just we are passionate about what we do and we want to see like really what we're capable of. And that's what I kind of enjoy is like our our sport specifically, it comes down to you know, meters and seconds. So it's we're pushing ourselves, it's more of like us against us, and like how how fast can I run? How high can I jump? How far can I throw? Versus like being on a team sport, you're you're really just like very tools with the game.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, what you just said is that you're competing against yourself. It's a great point. Like, have you um have you felt like competitive against others? Like, how do you deal with that? Have you ever felt like uh looked at someone else and said, Yeah, I wish I could get the achieve what they did? Like, how do you deal with that kind of competition?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Um, so I first I love competition competition. Like I thrive, you know, I I enjoy competing against other other athletes. Um But I will always, if I I can exit a competition. Feeling like I did my best, I'm always gonna feel good about it, no matter the outcome. If I play if I left it all in the track, then I'm always gonna feel good about it. Now, of course, there's other athletes that I look at and I'm like, man, that girl is jumping high. But to me, it's really exciting and very simulating. And like I, you know, I can look at them and hopefully learn from some of the things that they're you know, I might look at some of their technical cues, and a lot of us are are really good friends too. So if I asked, like Champion is actually here at this conversation, and if I asked her for some tips or some help with something, she would give me those tips and she would help me.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah, so it's really like collaborative between you guys.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yes, yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, so it sounds like yeah, you take it as um motivation, inspiration for how much more you could do when you see other people and kind of just like you measure yourself against yourself.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yes, yes. I I want to see what Annika Newell can do. I want to see like the sky's the limit, and I want to see how close to it I can get.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

And that that's a lesson that so many people are trying to learn. Um, because you know how so many of us compare ourselves to other people, what they're accomplishing, what we see on the surface. Um, and yeah, the best thing to do is say, are you doing better than you did yesterday? Or are you just did you do the best that you could today? It sounds like that's kind of your yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

That's my yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. I mean, what would you tell people? Like, you know, for example, I talk to um in my field, like as a therapist, you know, I'll talk to kids who play sports, um, and they always want to go pro, you know, and that means that there's a lot of them out there who want to go pro. And we know how competitive it is. And you want to encourage people, but also be realistic. And then whenever I'll talk to parents, you know, parents who, you know, see some potential in their kids, whether it's soccer or football or something else, um, they want, they want to take it as far as they can take it. They want to get that college scholarship and they want to go pro. Um, what do you think about that? Like, and what would you, you know, tell kids that um at whatever level they're at, that they want to take it to as far as they can.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

So, this is a great question, being that I'm a coach and I see a lot of this as well. And I get a lot of athletes and parents that ask me the same question. And my answer is always the same. You gotta do more. Whatever you think you're doing is not enough. You have to do more, and you think outside the box, and you need to be asking what that war might be. You need to be looking for outside forces, like you just war is the key word because everybody thinks, you know, like especially if they have a little bit of natural talent. Oh, I can I can try, I can, I can do this, I can do that, or like I could slack off here and there. No, you can't. And if you are, guess what? There's somebody else that is not slacking off and is happy to take your place.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

That that is so true. It makes a lot of sense. Like, I'm I I have a comment on that, but what how do they respond to you when you say that? Like, you have to do more if that's really what you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Usually they go on the defense, well, you know, I'm already doing no. Let me stop you right there. Um I'm already like, nope, I don't want to hear it. If the real the real athletes, the ones that I know are actually gonna maybe succeed in that area and go further, will not already tell me what they're already doing. They'll say, Okay, so like what can you know, they'll start asking, what can I start doing then? You know, what do you do as an athlete? Like, what would be my next steps? You know, yeah. It's not it's not already doing this.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

They're not defensive, they're not, yeah, defending their position, they're already somehow good enough, they're hungry to keep getting better, and they just take in that feedback, even if it hurts sometimes to hear. Yes, yeah. I mean, you know, that makes so much sense to me because it's also it's something that I've experienced in in different realms. Cause I think, you know, whether it's sports um or some part of your career or something you're trying to do, it's like especially if you start with some natural talent and you don't realize what it takes to get to a really, really high level. And it's I am not surprised that they're defensive sometimes because sometimes it feels like you've done you have done so much. And then someone's coming in and saying, it's actually still not at that level, you know, because I've had people tell me that, like whether it was in my education or like I'm a business coach or something, where I'm like, I'm doing all the things. And they're like, no, actually, the people who are really like making it, they're doing that much more. Like you thought you thought you were stretching yourself and like you don't even know how much more there is to go. And it's a hard thing to hear.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

It it is, it is because it feels like somebody is like almost you know, coming for for you and your character when they say that they're they're really not. You're just you're just giving somebody the facts of being realistic about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah, like and then think about who you're out there competing against. And like, um, I think at first we have to acknowledge that, yeah, maybe how much somebody has done is a huge deal and they have pushed themselves, but that maybe they need to zoom out because there are there are levels to it, and it took them that much like blood, sweat, and tears to get to this level, but there's like still all these levels, and it's gonna take more.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah, yeah, and the the devil and the details. So you know, and I I again something else that I like really preach is is practice how you want to compete. Like practice, practice does not think perfect. If you're practicing correctly, if you're practicing bad habits, like you're not gonna be perfect, practice makes permanent. So you need to be practicing the way that you want to compete.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Yeah, yeah, right, is to put yourself into that situation, um, and not just assume, right? Like not just assume that whatever you're doing is um is enough or that you'll figure it out when you get there.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yeah. So what is it like um coaching kids?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

I I love it because it I feel like it makes me or remind me like how much I love what I do in the sport and how fun it is. Like hold on to one of those events, like it's fun. Yeah, you know, you kind of feel like it's fine when you do it right. And to see kids like their little faces light up when they when they get something or when they get a jar, or you know, I think that's something you like how to turn and like see their faces light up. And it's it's very exciting, and I feel like you know, I'm making a real impact on somebody. Hopefully, instilling them like the same lesson that you know my parents and my coaches gave for them. So that's that's my ultimate goal is to just be a good role model.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah, pass it down, and then like you said, it kind of reignites that in you. And um, have you ever had some kids that are just having a really hard time or feel like giving up? And how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah, I I mean it it happens. Everybody, everybody goes through that, whether it's a little bit of a plateau where they're kind of questioning themselves or questioning people they want to, you know, they want things like that. Um, and as a coach, I feel like you really have to identify within the athlete what they need in that moment. You know, some kids they just need a really like fired up pet thought, you know, like you got this, let's attack this, let's do this. Other kids, you know, they might need a little bit more sensitivity, and okay, well, okay, let's let's attack it from this angle. Like, let's work in some little drills and like these help make things like a little bit more. And other kids might become patient, it's like, hey, you might need to step away for a month and go do go have fun, go do something else, and then come back to it and be your mindset that yeah, recognizing that psychologist, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah, like recognizing where they are, what's holding them back, and like what it is that that specific kid needs. Do you ever find parents that everything Yeah, no, go on.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Oh no, no, no, I was I was just saying, yeah, like every everybody has different needs, they're very different, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Do you ever find parents who are like maybe having too high expectations, pushing their kids too hard?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

I mean, you're always gonna have those, and there's a very fine line because you know, as a parent, like you want to see your kids excuse. And I get it. I'm coached, I want to see your kids. Like, I I get more excited for them than I do for myself. Sometimes I call kids. Um, there's definitely moments, for example, like if a parent, if I see them kind of like coaching their kid on the side or showing them a video or getting too in-depth and like almost being too hard on the kids, I would walk over now and say, Hey, you know, I'm I'm the coach, I'm telling the kids what I want them to do. I need you to just watch and cheer or get up. And I'm not afraid to say that to anybody.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Because if it's getting too too deep into it too much into their head, that that poor kid is like has too many cooks in the kitchen and what's going on in their head, yeah, and they're not gonna perform very well, and they're gonna probably get pretty frustrated over it.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yeah, and maybe even give up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

If I'm giving somebody a coaching cue, I I probably see 20 things wrong in the jump. I'm giving one coaching cue and I'm giving that one for a specific reason. I don't need a parent, you know, giving 10 others or being coming down hard on their kids. That's that's not helping us, that's hurting us.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah, and it's like you said earlier about not getting too much into your head, not in like you won't don't want people to be thinking about you said more than two things at once when they're doing this. Um, and then if you have a parent who's like, it can be discouraging, like not only are they telling them all this stuff, overwhelming them, but like fault finding and discouraging them. Like we're you're saying sometimes you see like 10 things that they could do better, but you're not gonna list all that out for them. You're not gonna make them feel like that's all they're focusing on is what they're doing wrong.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Because I imagine like there are a lot of parents that are it means so much for them, or they live through their kid, or they it gets away from them. They start having these expectations that are way too unreasonable, actually.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah. And and sometimes, you know, if I need to have an actual sit-down talk and like, hey, let's look at like your kids' real potential and what I see them doing this year and how how we can achieve that. I think we can do that. I have no problem with that, with that either. Um, I think that's actually more healthy and builds a better relationship between the coach, the athlete, and the parent.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, and that it's like that this is not an overnight thing. Like, let's set a goal for the next few months or let's set a goal for the year. We're not saying that, you know, by the end of this year they're gonna be in the Olympics. Like, let's be more realistic about it.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah, but I I and yeah, like you said, it's not an overnight thing. I feel like everybody's looking for that, that magic wand or like you know, that magic pill, like boom, PR. It does not happen like that. And you know, for some people, like they get their click moments and they do PR really easily, but others, it's it is a puzzle. So you were putting pieces together.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, you know, if people wish that they could have the kind of attitude towards things that you do, which is like seems pretty positive, it seems like pretty realistic, like not too hard on yourself or others, and kind of like doing it for the enjoyment, like, but they are not naturally like that. They have to learn that. What is some advice that you would give someone like that?

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Honestly, I hate to say it, but I think that comes a little bit with with maturity, and you you you have to be really open and receptive to understanding and learning those types of things. Like if you're just close on top of it, like perfectionists, for example, you know, they just they just see the they just see the perfect. That's it. And I was like, that's all the that's in their vision, and you have to be more open-minded than that and understand that there's not just one road to get to that perfect.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

I think that just comes with maturity and and self-awareness.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Self-awareness, being open-minded. It's making me wonder like I bet some of your best jumps are um were not like perfect, but they were still like your best.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

They were not perfect. Yeah, absolutely. That's what I tell athletes to like, you know, it doesn't have to be a perfect run coming down the runway. It doesn't have to be the most perfect takeoff. Like it's like you can still PR, you can still make the bar, so don't ever give up, you know, like fight for every single jump because it doesn't have to be perfect, and chances are it won't be, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

That's a metaphor for life, you know, because there's so many people who are trying to be successful at something, and the people who are the most successful in the field that they're trying in, their journeys were not like perfect. They were not like one sequential step after another. Well, first I went to college and then I did this, and I did everything right. And sometimes the people who are trying to do everything right, they get stuck. Um, because like they're not as being as open-minded, they could be, but maybe they're they're still learning that lesson. But sometimes the people who are the most successful, like there are a lot, it's there's a lot of imperfection along the way in that journey.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

And I think that's what makes it beautiful too. Like that's what makes it a journey. Like, I don't I couldn't tell you any person whose journey has been just one linear line.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

I know, and that's how we want it to be, right? It's like, yeah, you don't want to go through all that, or like you want to get there already. You want to get to the goal, especially if you're just an ambitious person, you know, and want to just make it to that goal. Um, but I think like looking back, you see like there that there's so much growth and evolution and like even the hard things that you experienced.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yes, absolutely. And you know, clap clap for the small wins along the way too. Because those are those are just as important.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah. Well, um, just before we wrap up, like one last question. You know, um, you've said so many things that I think are amazing takeaways for somebody watching this. Um, but you know, if you're talking to the audience or to your followers or someone who's like looking up to you, what is like one thing that you would want them to take away?

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Um, one thing I want them to take away is just is probably the work ethic that that I have. You know, don't be afraid to work hard and I really enjoy enjoy that hard work while you're doing it too. You know, like I I am a love the journey type of girl. Like I truly do enjoy the grueling workouts along the way that I know are gonna get to destination. So yeah, work hard and and love what you do.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah, I think that's great advice. And there's so many things that you've said um that are motivating and inspiring and seeing like how far you can get um and not having a perfect journey or not having a perfect jump and still like just being amazing and being an inspiration and being a coach and teacher. I think it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah, well, thank you so much for joining me here today. It's right been a pleasure. Something that really surprised me is that a lot of Annika's story, it ended up being like a conversation about nervous system regulation. Um, what do you do with your body? How do you sense your body in space? It's it's so cool to me that she was talking about what she does with the nerves, what she does with the fear. And it's like, I don't know where she learned that along the way. It sounds like it's kind of like she said, a little bit learned, like, but a lot, it just kind of she figured it out herself. Um, but when we talk about like regulating your nervous system, you know, we're not talking about being calm all the time, not having reactions, not having fear or fear or something like that passing really quickly. That is not what we're talking about at all. And I think that's what a lot of people think that we mean when we are talking about nervous system regulation. Like they think that being regulated is just being steady and unwavering and things not getting to you. Um, but what we really mean is working with your body, your body's natural responses to things that are adaptive and actually healthy and useful. And what's happened sometimes if you've experienced trauma or something like that is that the nervous system reactions have gone awry. Um, they're not working the way that they're supposed to, or they were suppressed at a certain time. And that suppression has actually led to long-term problems, um, or a nervous system was triggered many times over, and then without an ability to kind of come back to what we call homeostasis, which is kind of like the natural like resting state. Um, so if you went through like a chronic trauma, um, a difficult relationship or something difficult in childhood, you may have been triggered off a lot. And what happens with fear or nerves, like just as Annika's describing, is that there's kind of like a cycle to it, you know, that it peaks and then it comes down by itself naturally. And that is really just a result of adrenaline and cortisol in our bodies. It's a natural process. Um, but we're supposed to be able to just peak and have those feelings and those nerves kind of do what they're gonna do, feel those experiences, and then it naturally comes down. Um, but what happens for a lot of people is that at the peak, it gets depressed or it gets linked to something very scary. So if you were having that um during a traumatic incident, then you have all kinds of scary, difficult emotions that are now linked to those sensations. Like she said, the sensation of shaking is a very natural thing our bodies do to release that extra energy and adrenaline, or the sensation of like butterflies in your stomach has become linked to some sort of to something that was very scary. And now any sensation like that also triggers off those other feelings and other fears. Um, or it just kept getting triggered off and then peeking and not having a chance to come down because there was always something going on, which is the case in childhood trauma, is that it's it's a chronic trauma. There's always something that's happening. So you're kind of always in this state of like being triggered and being heightened, being triggered and being heightened, never really get to come down and feel safe, which teaches the body and teaches the unconscious that you can have that experience and it's actually okay, and that you can come back to feeling safe, that there's a sort of like a repair. Um, and what she is doing is that she's allowing her body and not being scared of it. She's not in her head saying, I can't feel this way, I can't feel fear, gotta get rid of this, um, this needs to go away. What if I fail? This is the worst. So she's not linking any sort of negative emotions to those sensations. Um and of course, she's not in a traumatic situation where you kind of almost can't help but do that. Um, and she's actually doing something that is a technique, something that we call like somatic tracking, which is allowing yourself to feel the sensations without reacting to them, which desensitizes you to them and it makes space for your nervous system to come down from that peak of um of being triggered, of being activated. So when she said, I feel the butterflies, that's it. I'm not trying to stuff the butterflies down, I'm not trying to get rid of them. I just feel them. And sometimes it's almost like enjoyable because it's like a rush. And sometimes it's not enjoyable, you know, because I'm I'm shaking and I'm afraid. Um, but I just allow it and I turn it into something else. And so actually what she's doing is she's allowing her body to do what it's naturally supposed to do, which is why those fears and the nerves aren't affecting her in a negative way and they aren't getting in the way. She allows it to come and go. Uh, it's a natural process. And then she's able to tap into her mindset and tap into that muscle memory because she's not stuck. In that nervous system state. And so that's what actually what we mean by nervous system regulation. I didn't expect the conversation to go that way, but it's actually amazing. And maybe I should have thought of it because sports, something so physical and so precise as pole vaulting, is um a very nervous system activating uh activity. And so I just think it's really amazing to see in action what nervous system regulation is, is feeling the feelings, not attaching to those sensations anything negative, um, allowing it to kind of play out as it does, being okay even when it's spiked, being okay when it's calmed down. And that is really nervous system regulation. It's not just being chill all the time, which is what I think a lot of people have come to believe that it actually means. Um, so uh tune in. I'm going to write a Substack uh post about that as well, and um just how we can apply that in our own lives using the tool of somatic tracking, which is observing our sensations without judgment, uh, in order to break those negative attachments to them and kind of be one with our bodies instead of fighting against them. So now it's time for one of our questions. Ummitted questions again. That when I answer these questions, they are not in place of therapy, they're not therapy advice, they're not medical advice, um, and they're not personal answers. They are just something to think about and some information from the mental health perspective. If you need therapy or need some personalized help with that, you should seek that out. Um, so I think this is a good question for today, actually, because it is about um what do you do when you panic over physical sensations? So um every time I feel something in my body like that is different, uh, I start to think that it's a symptom, and I start to get worried that something is seriously wrong with me. Uh, why do I always panic and think that I am seriously ill every time I feel uh body sensation? So, you know, a lot of times for people that that's a spectrum, and for some people, it can go as far as to being like a health anxiety disorder. Um, and sometimes people just get that once in a while, and it's kind of part of their general anxieties. Um, but being worried about being sick because of a sensation. So that's twofold. Um, first of all, a lot of people who've experienced trauma, particularly childhood trauma, that there is a lot of scientific research showing that they are more prone to this kind of problem because they are more hyper-vigilant of their body sensations. So, you know, somebody else might have a little lightheadedness, a little shortness of breath or something like that, and not even actually notice it. All right. So they're more prone to noticing those bodily sensations and they're more prone to assigning um a negative meaning to those bodily sensations. So again, someone who doesn't have this problem, they might notice that they are a little short of breath, that their heart started to feel racing, um, but they would either just think nothing of it, or they would think something like, oh, maybe I just had a little too much coffee, I should just get something to eat, right? So they wouldn't assign this sort of negative meaning to it. So if you've had a history of trauma, um more likely to do that. And there's also a big genetic component to this and a learned component. If your parents struggled with anxiety, there's a bigger chance of that being passed down. And if you saw them constantly worried, they're constantly worried about you as a kid or constantly worried about their own health or someone else's, you might start to absorb that. You learn that, and you start to also do that when you are an adult. Um, so panicking over everybody sensation. What most people would try to do with this is one of two things. One is they will research, right? So they get on Google or they get on WebMD and they start to try to figure out if something is actually wrong with them and what that might be. That is one of the worst things that you could do for it. So when clients come in to see me and they have this problem, I first say, first line of defense, like because there's so much that we can work through with this. First thing to do is stop looking it up. Now that can be very hard to do, it can be very tempting, kind of have to like ride out those feelings and write out those urges. Um, but it never helps to look it up. You will always find things that make you more afraid. You're not a doctor, but you're gonna think that you're a doctor, you always find things that will make you start to think even worse stuff. Um, and now medical professionals they don't look at one symptom, they look at a lot of symptoms in context to make a diagnosis. And so you're not gonna be able to do that, especially when you're coming from this dysregulated state. You don't have the information and you're already scared. So your mind is already starting to program to look for all the negative things. And even if you find something that is reassuring that makes you think, oh, okay, I don't have that. I don't have this terrible disease I thought I had. That reassurance is actually a reinforcer for the anxiety. The reassurance feels good temporarily, but it doesn't actually help long term. So not looking for reassurance, not looking for information is the first number one thing. Um, not trying to go on and self-diagnose. And the other thing that people do is they try to talk themselves out of it. They try to reason with themselves and say, well, that last time I thought I was sick, I wasn't. So maybe this time I'm not either. Um, you know, these things are really rare. And people who like you, love you, and care about you, they will try to do those things too. They try to reason with you. What's the probability of a headache actually being brain cancer? You know, very, very slight probability. Um, but that doesn't help people with anxiety. Anxiety, it has a mind of its own and it's always coming up with new things. It's always coming up with what ifs. Okay, but what if I am in the 0.2%? Okay, but what if it's actually not that, but it's actually this? And so you always go around in this cycle if you or someone else is trying to argue those thoughts and talk you out of it. And this is very counterintuitive because a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy, people who are not applying this the right way, they will try to do that. They would try to reframe your thoughts into something that's a little more functional or a little more positive. Like I don't actually have that, um, you know, because it's really not likely. Or if I had it, I would also have other symptoms. And therefore, I don't now change that thought. But again, that doesn't work. Even if it does work 10 minutes later, and if you have this problem, you know that this is true, 10 minutes later you're gonna be thinking, okay, but wait, what if I didn't think about this? What if the doctor missed that? And it's just gonna keep going. The best thing to do for thoughts like this is to just recognize what they are and try to distance yourself. Um, we use that in mindfulness, we use that in something we call cognitive diffusion. Um, you might have seen that in mindfulness-based therapies like ACT. You see the thought from afar, right? So you say, I know I have this problem, I know I have these worries, and these are thoughts, and now I'm having more thoughts about this type of issue. The thoughts are very distressing, the thoughts are coming in fast, the thoughts feel overwhelming. Where do I feel that in my body? They feel kind of crushing and continuing to notice that rather than thinking the thoughts through. So, for most of my clients, I give them this kind of example when they're practicing this cognitive technique. So, say your phone rings and you look at it and you see that it's somebody that really bothers you and that you don't like talking to, and then, you know, someone that's just not a great person in your life. You have two choices. One is you can answer the phone. Answer the phone and talk to them and engage with them. And the other is that you can look and say, okay, that person is calling and not answer the phone. And it's the same with our thoughts. Now, again, it's not so easy, but it does get easier over time. And so, not answering the phone on those thoughts, not engaging with them, but just noticing that they are there and labeling that for what it is. Um, so I hope you find that helpful. Um, and again, thank you for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe. Don't forget to go to my Instagram and check out my Substack as well. My Substack is Deep Dive with Dr. Basilia. Um, and we're gonna talk a little more about what Annika talked about today with just some of the nervous system techniques and what it truly means to have a regulated nervous system.