EP014: Aligned, Alive & Moving; Truth and Myths About Chiropractic Care!

You can tell a lot about a person by what they refuse to give up, and we ran into that truth on a sidewalk: an 81-year-old casually doing 200 push-ups. That story sets the tone for a real, practical conversation about back pain, mobility, and what “active aging” can look like when you stop treating stiffness as normal and start treating movement like a daily skill.

We’re joined by Dr. Dees and Dr. Laux from Canyon Chiropractic in San Ramon to break down what actually changes in the spine over time and why the biggest factor isn’t your age, it’s function. We talk joint motion, posture, injuries that quietly compound for decades, and why pain alone is a terrible scoreboard for spinal health. If you’ve ever been told your imaging looks “fine” but your body disagrees, we dig into anatomy versus physiology and how a thorough evaluation can reveal what’s really going on.

Ted also shares how spinal decompression therapy helped him get his life and golf game back, and the docs explain how decompression differs from old-school traction, why disc hydration matters, and when non-surgical options make sense. We bring it home with the simplest plan that keeps showing up across this podcast: keep moving, build strength, protect your balance, and start prevention earlier than you think.

Subscribe, follow, share this with a friend who keeps “pushing through” pain, and leave us a review so more people find the show. What’s one activity you want back this year?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:08

Wake up, wake up, and listen up. Welcome to the fourth quarter podcast with your hosts, Doug Talmich and Ted Ania. Tune in as we dive into living your best life in the fourth quarter of your life. Hear from health and lifestyle experts, inspirational stories, learn simple steps to keep you motivated or to help get you started. Finally, join us as we coach others live on air who want to begin a healthy lifestyle or just might be stuck and need a breakthrough. Remember, it's never too late to decide to be great. Momentum keeps you motivated, so take a deep breath. Lean in and let's go.

Medicare Choices And Shiny Distractions

SPEAKER_07 0:53

Hey, welcome back to the fourth quarter podcast with Doug and Ted. We've got a couple of doctors on on board today, so just hang tight. We are going to get you right. That's what I'm talking about. Ted, I gotta talk tell you, man, last week interviewing Tracy Brown was really, really interesting. You know, I live with my dad. He's 84, we'll be 85 in October. And she brought on some great information about Medicare and what's the best plan to have and why not to have, and all the bells and whistles that they could be distractions, you know, the shiny, don't chase the shiny things. I think he was chasing the shiny things, Ted. So we're in the process of getting things worked out and straightened out for him as well. And so, Tracy Brown, if you're listening in, thank you so much for showing up last week and getting that dialed in for us. It was very informative, and I encourage all of you to go back and listen. If you haven't, if you're facing or going to be facing Medicare decisions down the road soon, you want to tune in and listen to some golden nuggets she dropped off. Before I hand the mic over to you, Ted, I was checking in with some clients this morning. And I tell you, man, Betty on episode seven, the 82-year-old who is still hiking and climbing mountains and leaving all us youngsters in the dust is still inspiring people. One of my clients this morning just she was talking about her goals and why she's doing what she's doing and why she's committed to continuing to showing up. She goes, I want to be like Betty. I want to be like Betty. And she goes, that was an amazing episode. And so for those of you who haven't heard Betty, she is episode seven, and that is redefining aging from fear to forever young. You want to check that out on the fourth quarter podcast. That's all I got for you, my brother Ted. I'm gonna just kick the mic on over to you. What do you got for us? All right, all right.

Be Like Betty Inspiration

Upcoming Guests And Active Aging

SPEAKER_08 2:35

It's pretty amazing with Betty. You know, we've talked about her being kind of the beacon for this podcast, who we aspire to be. And it's just amazing the impact she's had on people that have listened and all want to be like Betty. Yeah. Pretty amazing stuff. Upcoming episodes next week, we have Liz Dolliber on. She's got a pretty, pretty amazing story. She was triathlete. She got involved in that because of some family history that she had. We'll save that for next week. Won't go into it all, but okay, and had a very serious medical episode, if you will. Just bounced back from that. Pretty inspiring story. So we'll get into all the details with her. Following week, we have on actually my son-in-law, Ryan Fontillas, who does a number of things on top of his regular job. He is the co-founder of the East Bay toddler ruck club. What's cool about it is it started out with him taking his daughter out for walks in his backpack, then inviting others to do the same. And it is expanded to where they could have anywhere from 10 to 30 people on a hike, kids from you know newpo newborns to four or five years old out there hiking and running around and connecting the generations. Not only the their young kids, but also grandparents like me being out there and uh joining in and carrying grandkids on our back in the backpacks. He just does a number of different things. He's a speaker for a group called Teen Esteam, which goes into high schools and speaks with kids about bullying. It's one of the things he he spends his some of his spare time doing. And on top of that, if that wasn't enough, he during COVID became a professional wrestler in his spare time. And he'll be on the week prior to that that event in San Ramon. So should be fun. There's a lot of things. He was also a kinesiology major in in college. So there's a lot, a lot to talk to him about, too, about the body. Before we get to Dr. D's and Dr. Locks, one uh quick story I wanted to share with you was I went out for my walk on on Saturday, right? And I'm coming up to one of the major intersections in Danville. I look a little ways ahead of me and I see someone laying on the ground. You know, kind of panicked. So I sped up to get there. When I finally got within close distance, it was a gentleman who was actually doing push-ups on the sidewalk. Oh, wow. Okay. He got up and I looked at him, and he was not a youngster. He was he was older. So I went and actually, you know, I go out and I do my push-ups as I'm walking. And I was out for a couple hours, went for a long walk, and I'm coming in just finishing up. And who's still out there walking is this guy. I stopped him and I said, Hey, did you get all your push-ups done? He said, Yeah. I said, How many did you do? He said, I did 200. Wow. Um then he proceeded to tell me he's 80, 80 years old, 81 years old, and still doing it. So awesome. Just just pretty fun. You know, we talk about Betty, but there are people out there, and uh, you know, still still doing it. And he was all into all the different supplements, was asking me about supplements and different things that he's taking, and pretty, pretty fun to uh run across those people out on the on the trail.

SPEAKER_07 6:24

Well, Ted, I I gotta ask, man. Did I I hope you got his number and his name because we we gotta get him on the show. I I tried, I tried to get it. It's simple, Ted.

Ted’s Back Pain Turning Point

SPEAKER_08 6:38

Well, I didn't, but I I have seen him before when I realized who it was. So I'll run across him again and I'll I'll get him on. Yeah, I would love to get him on. That would be awesome. Yeah. Anyway, getting to our guests this week, about four years ago, three, four years ago, I think.

SPEAKER_07 6:56

Uh-huh.

Why These Chiropractors Chose This

SPEAKER_08 6:57

I was playing playing golf, getting back into golf after I'd retired, and really struggling with my health. I I would play golf and I'd be in so much pain for the next couple of days that you know I was I was really thinking about giving up, giving up the game. It was just wasn't worth it to me. And I actually was on, I think on Facebook, and there was an ad there for chiropractic care and a thing called spinal decompression therapy. I figured, what the heck? I might as well give this a shot and see see what it's about. Went in to Canyon Chiropractic in in San Ramon, met with Dr. Locks. They did X-rays, did some different tests on me, and said, Yeah, we think we can help you out, and we can get into that a little bit further as we go. But I mean, changed changed my life, to be honest. I remember. You know, just I I'm able to play golf again. I I managed to try and sabotage it by crashing my bike in the middle of the therapy, but uh they managed to work around that. So, anyway, we'll get right to it. Dr. Dees, we'll start with you. Why don't you give us a little background? What led you into chiropractory and a little history about yourself?

SPEAKER_04 8:22

Well, thanks for having us, uh Ted and uh Doug. Appreciate it giving us the opportunity to be here and share what we have to have to say. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, grew up playing high school football, hurt myself playing football, and as like we all do. We didn't have internet back then, but I self-diagnosed myself. I have a torn rotator cuff. I couldn't lift my arm up, and I decided, you know, to tell my mother, I'm like, I need to go into you know the ortho. And she goes, Why don't you go see my chiropractor? And then I'm like, why? And so she took me in, and he is an old school guy, didn't took an X-ray, never showed it to me, didn't tell me anything, laid me down on the table, adjusted my neck, and I walked out as a you know, snotty teenager, and she goes, How was it? And I'm like, I don't know. I mean, it didn't seem to do anything, didn't even touch my shoulder. Two days later, I had complete mobility back in my shoulder. Wow. So it was pretty amazing. So it was it wasn't until years later that I was trying to decide where was my life path going to go because I became an x-ray tech, and then I thought uh, you know, all kinds of other things. I ended up going into chiropractic and I've been practicing for 36 years. So 33 at the exact location that you came to, Ted. Uh, this is our third year there. So yeah, yeah, Dr. Locks came out with me in like 2017, and we've been uh been a strong team ever since. So three kids, one of them's a chiropractor, and she married a chiropractor. And wow, so yeah, it's it's in our blood. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_08 9:48

Yeah, that's very cool.

SPEAKER_07 9:48

So what when she worked on she worked on me a couple of times. So are you gonna is it safe to say that that doc that experience, that moment you had with the rotator cuff was kind of directly impacted you into moving into this field, or did that surface in your brain when you were making a decision on which way you were going?

SPEAKER_04 10:06

You know, yeah, put it in the back of my brain. I mean, like literally, you know, I didn't, you know, I just at that point, like I tried it not to have our patients do. I just went in whenever I hurt. I didn't go in for any preventative, I didn't go in for anything other than I hurt, you know. And it wasn't until I got a little bit older and I thought, oh, I I I gotta do something with my life. What am I gonna do? You know, and I thought, dick, that's great. You know, like I never even thought about that, you know. So I just went to Palmer College in Davenport where the um chiropractic was discovered, and it's just been a life-changing event for myself and my whole family.

SPEAKER_08 10:42

That's so awesome. Amazing. And Dr. Locks, how about you? And just just I'm I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, just for the record, because there is a little age difference, which is a good thing we want to get into. Is Dr. Locks is 39, 40, and Dr. D's. I think you told me you just turned 60 or about to turn 60.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

I'm gonna be 92 next week. No, no, I'll be I'll be 62 this year, 62. 62, okay.

SPEAKER_08 11:14

Yeah, so there's a little difference because we want to get into that a little bit later, just the difference between that. But sorry to cut you off. Go ahead and tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

It is all good. Thank you guys so much for having us on and allowing us to kind of speak on to all the people that are gonna be listening. It's important for us as chiropractors to uh get the word out of what we actually do. There's a lot of uh ignorance still out there, a lot of people need to be helped. So thanks for having us on so we could kind of squash some of that and get rid of some of the fears and skepticism that's out there. Um, for myself, I was a kinesiology major, played baseball through college, didn't really have a path per se. I just wanted to be in sports medicine. Through my undergrad, one of my professors challenged me on a new satellite class that he was doing. It was basically an upper division class, meaning that it was more masters associated. So he's like, hey, you know, you're a student of mine. Why don't you try this class? It's spinal biomechanics. And so I'm like, okay, well, what's it intelligent? He's like, well, it'll be just a regular course. He didn't tell me that we had to come up with a master's thesis by the end of it. I was a little upset about week six when he introduced that because it has to be a 30-page document, but actually changed the projection of my life. Really, what it came down to from that was low back pain, which we'll get into on this podcast here in a little bit. It's the number one cause of disability worldwide. And that was my topic. And so I looked at different professions across the board, physical therapy, osteopaths, spinal surgeons, regular primary care physicians, and then chiropractors. I've never I didn't know what a chiropractor was, I didn't know what they did, nothing about it. And after the research, chiropractic had the best outcome. And so that kind of sparked my thought of like, oh well, I have no idea. I should probably investigate this. And then I ended up shadowing at a local office, saw people limping in and walking out, and I was like, I just witnessed that, and nothing to me happened, right? So I was like, that's kind of odd. Just through an adjustment, people were gaining normal function again. And then so from that point, immediately I was like, that's what I want to do. So yeah, that's really led me down the path.

SPEAKER_07 13:41

Very cool. And you have family as well in live in the area?

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Yes, yes. So uh I grew up in Clayton, California here, right here in the Bay Area. Undergrad was all the way to San Francisco State. Currently married, have two kids, a five-year-old and a two-year-old. So we just get into that, and it's it's been a blasting and a curse. Very, very busy for sure.

Aging Spine Movement Beats Age

SPEAKER_08 14:02

Awesome. So our show is focused on the fourth quarter, however, you want to define that. We've had people correct us, but as we're aging, what what is the difference, the biggest difference you see between older adults and younger with uh what what types of things you typically see uh change within the spine as people age? Dr. Dees?

SPEAKER_04 14:32

I I I I I'd probably add on to the fourth quarter overtime. Uh because I don't go into overtime. So, but I want to do it healthfully, right? And and that's that's I think you know, the the big theme about what we do and what you guys are talking about is you know, people don't just wake up one day and like, oh, I'm old. I mean, like they they don't pay attention, you know. I mean, I'm saying maybe I should correct myself. They do wake up one day and say, Oh, I'm old. I'm like, well, you've been aging since you know you were 30, you know, and now you're 70, and now all of a sudden you're, you know, thinking you're just going to turn your life around. I mean, it's really about a lifestyle, about movement. And, you know, so many of the spinal problems that we see in people, you know, it's not their age. I mean, they've had an injury, they've uh, you know, I look at their, we look at their spine and say, like, your C5, C6 is severely degenerated. Why is the one above it not degenerated? And they're like, I don't know. I'm like, well, it's the same age. I mean, it's because that joint was injured and the other joints have been injured, you know. But people define it all the time as as far as, well, my neck doesn't hurt, my back doesn't hurt, you know. And that's just like the worst way to determine your spinal health is by back pain and just by pain alone. So, you know, we we see a lot of people that, my God, that they're like you're in your 80s, your spine looks great, you know, and they're active as can be. And then you look at people that are half of my Dr. Locks's in my age, and they're just a mess, you know, because they just have so many injuries and they don't do anything about it. So, yeah, I mean, and let you add to that, Doc. What do you what would you say to that?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah, I think really the overall thing with what we see on our end is more of the functionality of the joints, right? Uh if people maintain what we call health, right? It's health itself is, you know, there's a lot involved with it. But as far as the spinal condition, it's movement. That's really what it comes down to. Anytime there's a dysfunction that happens, whether it's from a traumatic event, slip fall, a mild rear end, and you walk away from it, a sports injury or anything, jumping on a trampoline, it's really when the joint doesn't move well, over time, that's where the degeneration that Dr. D's talked about sets in, which then eventually it leads up to the dysfunction, which then leads to aches and pains and numbness tangling and burning sharpshooting pains. So it's it's compilation over time. As far as you know, spinal health, it's really just move. Do the proper movements, don't do anything that's extreme, you know, and don't try to be lift the world, right? You wanted to be cautious and smart, but also don't be afraid to do things. Yeah, it's really just proper movement and make body mechanics, those are the largest factors of overall, you know, joint health, not just the spine.

How Corrective Chiropractic Is Assessed

SPEAKER_07 17:23

So I'm gonna inject here, Ted, if you don't mind. So I remember when Ted was going through his terrible, terrible twos of golfing, and it wasn't it wasn't just an overnight thing, it wasn't just you know a one-time one and off thing. He was having just a bad season and he couldn't figure it out, couldn't figure it out. And if you know Ted, he's very systematic in his brain, he keeps charts and notes and all this other stuff, but he's trying to figure this out, trying to figure this out. As someone who was guiding him in his health at that time, I had I was privy to the conversations of him going through this process and how his golf game, quote unquote, just sucked, and how he got to that place where you know doesn't know if it's worth it anymore. And then your guys' ad came. He was, you know, he pondered it, like, should I do this? You know, and and thought about the process and the cost and all that, and and then he committed. And the reason I'm re-sharing the story is because I was talking to a completely different man at the end of this, uh even before he finished. And uh, he would share with me some of the things you guys did to uh to start him out in his assessment and how imbalanced he was. And crazy, man. He like the guys he he's golfing now and he's bringing in scores that he wasn't bringing in for before, and these are consistent, like his game has massively and dramatically improved because of these adjustments. Can you guys speak to like when someone Ted comes into your like like Ted comes into your office? What do you do? How do you assess that person and what kind of a plan and strategy did you put together for him? How do you determine that?

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Well, I think you have to look at that there isn't like a a golf adjustment or a sciatica adjustment or a headache adjustment. I mean, we evaluate the biomechanics of the spine and the joints and and correct them. You know, it's a condition that people develop, it's called a subluxation. It's a big word, but it's where the bones in the spine move out of alignment, but they they not only move out of alignment, they don't function correctly. They still function, they just don't function 100%. You know, that's what damages the discs and destroys the cartilage and the joints over time. So it's a subtle thing. You know, I had a patient, his name was Bill, years ago. I mean, he every week golfed with his foursome, and he started having back pain. He came in, we started adjusting him, and all his buddies are like giving him heck, and they're like, You're taking lessons, aren't you? No, I'm just getting adjusted. He goes, No, you're taking lessons because like you're you're killing us now. You know, so his his function improved. Now, now adjustments have never helped my golf game, but I mean that is what it is.

SPEAKER_07 19:54

Well, you gotta who's adjusting you, Dr. Dees?

unknown 19:56

No.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

Well, Dr. Hawks is adjusting me, but he's a lot of me.

SPEAKER_07 20:01

I think you need to talk to him. No, I'm just kidding.

unknown 20:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

But but yeah, I mean that that's the the thing is you you just evaluate each person individually, you know, in in our office, you know, we we we're very specific about you know how we evaluate people and what we we look at. I mean, it's uh it may seem like everybody gets the same adjustment, but they don't. I mean, they're there it's so different because there's you know 24 movable segments in the spine, and you know, we're adjusting C5 on you, and Ted we're adjusting C7. I mean, it it just it just depends on the person, you know. So but we you know, we're really good at evaluating that and we really kind of push the I wouldn't say push, but educate the corrective model of chiropractic. You know, most people use chiropractic like a band-aid or an aspirin. Right. My back hurts, I get an adjustment, that's it. You know, and I say that that's like you know, thinking you're gonna get in shape because you worked out one time. I'm like, it just doesn't happen. It becomes, you know, a regular thing. You know, you brush your teeth regularly. I mean, you know, that there's a there's a reason for that, you know. But people only boil it down to back pain. So, like, well, my back doesn't hurt, so I don't need it, or my back pain went away. So right.

SPEAKER_07 21:06

I remember when I was younger, I went and saw a chiropractor. I forget what it was for, but he did the it was it was similar to your experience when you were in high school, Dr. D's and you know, you come in this old school guy, and you come in crack, crack, crack, and you're out and it's it's done. And it's like, holy man, what just happened to me? Like, I I was violated. No, I'm just kidding. But uh, but then you feel then you start, you know, the blood starts moving, things start feeling a little later, like, okay, things are working. And and so what uh what impressed me about when Ted went is you know, he came back and with this big report to share with me, like, oh man, they did this and this. Like, you guys do a massive evaluation of like before we're gonna get to some work on you, we're gonna we need to find out and dig deep and really look. You don't just walk into your office and you guys just start snapping things. You're like it sounded like, at least in Ted's case, that you took a thorough look at him, you know, internally, externally, through weights and measures and and x rays. whatever else to see exactly where he was to know exactly where to work. And I I guess it's just chiropractic since I was a kid has changed a lot. Has that is that the has it changed a lot? Am I or is this or is there just different types of chiropractic services out there that I'm unaware of?

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Well I have my opinion on that. I'll let Dr. Locks he's been more recently graduated from me than 36 years ago. I mean not that I can't answer it but i I'll let him talk about from a more of a present situation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Okay. There's I mean chiropractic itself it's an art form. We prefer to practice with taking x-rays and doing a proper evaluation. Are there clinics that operate just like your experience where you go in and get adjusted? 100%. They make us look better. Yeah yeah we we see a lot of those end up in our office. The biggest thing that I could say is it's overall the experience that Ted went through on a clinical side when you take your car into the shop the mechanic might know exactly what's going on based on the symptoms that you are discussing right a battery failure or you know engine issue right until he physically opens up the hood and actually does runs a diagnosis and actually looks at it. He doesn't truly know right so that's our job and our profession and what we offer in corrective care is my job is to take that person and they come in with their symptoms and their complaints and I want to see objectively what's going on. So that's where the x-rays come in. We want to get proper measurements we want to see exactly how the body's functioning so that when we re-exam now they have something to face it off so they can see the improvements number one. Number two is our job is to educate you on hey with the lifestyle chiropractic is really what's happening is by increasing movement, increasing functionality we do rehydrate the discs. We improve your postures your joints are moving better your balance improves. So there's a lot that goes into our actual evaluation and that's really what you know hopping on board with Dr. D's before I uh came to this clinic I had plenty of opportunities where it was a previous experience and I have friends who work in that fashion that are you know kind of bouncing around with different offices since they're newer out of school. Really corrective care across the board I think is the best way to practice you know from a patient perspective. It gives you guys an objective it gets you guys dialed in it gets you the actual lifestyle and then you get an experience just like Ted had where hey golf game improved you got shooting better scores. And I mean he with even with his accident he talked about earlier with the the bike injury right I remember him coming in he had been a routine patient up until that point. And so I told him because he was a little worried of like hey should we be getting adjusted and there was an appropriate way that we you know precautionary we avoided certain areas to limit damage to the spine or his ribs. But at the same time is that his rebound was a lot quicker than if he just came off the street with that injury because he's been receiving the care. So the turnaround we see quite a bit and that's really you know the corrective care moving into the maintenance side where it's like going in getting your oil changes, your tire rotations on your vehicle it your spine needs to be checked and it needs to make sure that's moving well. So that's really our our emphasis and that's really where Ted is at this point in care.

SPEAKER_07 25:33

Okay. So corrective care corrective care is the language I hear you saying and and I love that because it sounds like it you guys have a system to measure the progress and that to me as a as a life coach and a health coach and and an athlete myself you know I've got to measure I need to know if I'm making progress I need because if I'm not I need to adapt adjust and redo the system or or restrategize or something. And so I loved that that's what Ted had and and I was I was so blessed to be a part of his process you know over our weekly check-ins just to hear what was happening how it was happening. I'm like this is really cool. It's really cool how it works and and now the outcome I don't golf with Ted anymore because it's no fun. I liked it when he when he couldn't golf can you guys just when you on his golf days can you give him a little you know snap that you know makes him get his old game back so I can win some money. No I'm just kidding there's a there's a right price for everything.

Spinal Decompression Explained Clearly

SPEAKER_08 26:25

Okay. Well you know uh I I know there there's a lot of services you offer but we've been talking just about my particular case first of all I was like did everything wrong as far as my back went I mean I was in an industry where I was lifting I was in the dairy industry lifting milk cases for years and years and I'm assuming that's probably what did some of the damage to my back I just thought I've never I never went to a doctor for it because I just ignorance is bliss. I didn't I didn't want to know what was wrong with it until it finally got to a point I I kept giving things up in my life I I loved playing softball. I quit playing well in my 50s but because my leg was going numb. Every time I play my leg would go numb so the spinal decompression therapy if I've got this right because this is how I've been saying it for the last few years is I kind of compared it to the old school traction where you're kind of you were kind of stretched out is that and I always say it's a more scientific version of that is that pretty accurate or it it's really it's honestly really different than that.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

I mean you know it's it's it's in concept it's like that but in reality it isn't like I start I got my first bound decompression machine probably 28 years ago and we have three of them now. And and the the what it does is it it helps to rehydrate the discs but it does it with a computer that runs it. So it's for a joint it's not just static traction all right because what puts fluid in and out of a disc is movement. And the movement of that individual segment is what is the pump that pumps fluid in and out of the disc because disks are avascular meaning there's no blood flow to them but there's water inside them and there's a what gel-like material is water in it. How does it get in there? It gets in there through movement of the joint and if that joint loses a percentage of movement now it loses a percentage of hydration. So some people don't need decompression but then there are other people that their disc is so bad that just getting an adjustment and creating that natural movement and pumping action isn't enough. So you have to do like in your case do the decompression which helps to rapidly rehydrate the disc. People fall asleep on it. I mean it's it's very comfortable but it's the best non-surgical spinal treatment for people that have any type of disc issue. And the problem is Ted is like you're the you're typical of a lot of people is like people deal with pain all the time. You know, I I look at them and I'm like Ted why are you here now? And I'm going to tell you why you're here now is because when pain it gets to the point where it'll affects things that you need or want to do in your life, that's when they finally come in. All right they've been dealing with it for years, you know, but they don't realize is that just because you're the tough guy or the tough girl, you know, and you're doing it for for years, you're causing so much damage to the spine. So that's where you know we talk about corrective care you know there's initially there's there's you know pain relief care that could be one visit that could be two visits. And then the correction of that spinal problem can take months all right and then the problem that sometimes happens is people get to the end of correction and they're patting Dr. Lox on the back thanking us, you know, giving us gifts they're all excited and we're like well wait a minute you need to maintain that now I mean like you need to do something you don't need to come in twice a week for the rest of your life but you need to maintain it you know because it's a damaged injured part of your spine or your joint your knee whatever you know you don't just want to wait until the next crisis comes by. Medicine tends to kind of teach people like here's the drug the lotion the potion and you know just it mass the symptoms not fix the problem.

SPEAKER_08 30:09

Wow well it's amazing too how things have changed over time. I I know when I was first starting it and I think maybe when I was considering it I talked to a good friend of mine who is a physical therapist and I said have you you heard of this he said yeah I've heard of it heard good things about it but he was just telling me how much more at least like physical therapists and chiropractors are working in conjunction with each other because they see the value of both you know I don't know if you see more of the traditional medical profession encouraging chiropractic help but you know you could speak to that but it it's just it's good to see everybody working together for the benefit of the patient.

Strength Training Prevention And Longevity

SPEAKER_04 30:57

It's in 36 years of practice has gotten a little better but it there's still a major milestone that has to be achieved. I mean the the the problem is is that everything is so insurance based. So you know people they'll rather do therapy physical therapy or medicine because chiropractic's typically not um covered by insurance. There's some but not a lot you know so it it's unfortunate that that's kind of a barrier for a lot of people you know even though they don't realize in the big scheme of things, I mean you know Ted I mean it's not like it's your life savings to to go to a chiropractor you know but they ch tend to choose let their insurance choose their health care instead of their doctor choosing their health care. So they're they're you know good therapist physical therapists there's bad chiropractors there's bad therapist I mean you know it it in every profession but you know if you find a good therapical therapist they're golden I mean they're great because you know one of the things we haven't discussed yet is it is that you know I'm strengthening. I mean you know when I look at some of these older patients that we have or even friends and I'm like wow look at them like how they're crazy how active they are they're doing physical manual labor. I mean the human genome hasn't changed in 40,000 years and we went from being hunters and gatherers to sitting at a desk all day long. You know so you you you you you people people have to understand you have to exercise exercise is so huge and exercise isn't just taking a walk around the block it's resistive exercise you know you don't have to you know go to gold's gym every day but you should use some weight or bands or something resistive because that's going to build stronger bones it's gonna build stronger joints. Yeah you're gonna hurt but guess what you're gonna hurt a lot more if you do nothing you know and that's the thing that you know we talk about Dr. Loch all the time you have to keep moving have to keep moving I don't care how old you are now you have to be smart man we have a patient remember Mary right Mary says she's on this farm down the street from us and I'm like you know Mary I I applaud you that you're 92 and yet you're like still working on your farm and doing everything but you probably shouldn't have been up on that ladder climbing over that fence at 92 and that's how you broke your ribs and you know got a concussion I'm like you know you got to be smart about it you know but they they got to keep moving we we've had on a professional trainer we've had on a nutritionist we've had on an 82 year old everyone and the same message keeps coming through is it's movement.

SPEAKER_08 33:20

It's you know staying active yes weight lifting of some sort weight bearing right hands weight bearing you know if our if our listeners haven't gotten that message yet I don't know that they'll they'll ever get it because it it keeps coming from every direction yeah every every person we talk to that's looking for that that health into their fourth quarter and beyond into overtime that's the key.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

I think about Dr. Locks's kids are young enough to probably watch if you ever watch the movie Wally the Disney movie Wally I picture people like that like everything's been so automated they have no arms they have no legs and they just sit there and press buttons for everything you know and their whole health is deteriorated. You know and that's kind of what our society is starting to get is just enormously sedentary you know and it's just it's it's that's what costs why healthcare costs so much is because people don't you know take care of themselves and you know there's you know disease and there's dis-ease and people don't wait and till they wait until they're diseased not you know the other part of dis hyphen ease you know when they something's going on and they start changing their lifestyle but you know it's just not taught just not taught enough.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

If I can add one thing go ahead I think prevention prevention's key right you know kind of along the lines it resistance training is awesome you got to start early I mean I I think that's the biggest thing for the grandkids you know a lot of this podcast is probably focused on the fourth quarter but emphasize on your grandkids prevention is key to limit how you when do you get at that fourth quarter or that overtime stat. Because a lot of the things if you prevent over time it becomes easier instead of trying to fire fight the whole time and you know how you're disabled and you can't do things. So I I think that's a big key you know and to maintain especially from a health sense if you can see a chiropractor I mean as long as you have a spine we can adjust you. You know I've taken care of my kids both about an hour out of the womb and then the oldest patient that I've personally adjusted was 105. So as long as you got a spine we will find a way to get things moving and get you feeling right.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

Wow I think that's an important part to to kind of reiterate more is that a lot of people are afraid to go to a chiropractor for whatever reason. And like Dr. Locke said a couple times if you have a spine and you can get in our office, we will find a safe way to adjust you. Sometimes have to adjust a 92 or a 21 year old like a 92 year old because they have an injury. You know when you are injured Ted we're not like doing manual adjustments on injured ribs and everything. I mean there's you know there there's gentle ways of doing it and that's our job and that's part of our x-ray analysis. You know we've had people come in and thank God they gave chiropractic another try but they're like every time I went and my back was worse it made me worse blah blah blah you know we take an x-ray and him and I look at each other and like they were adjusting you how? Like oh my God like no that's not an appropriate adjustment for you you know anybody with that condition. You know so so that's where we you know kind of separate ourselves and that I'm not saying we're better than anybody else but I mean there are some other people in our profession and unfortunately they they just aren't thorough like they should be and then that just kind of boils into what you know you you do something right to somebody they they they tell two people you do something wrong they tell 20.

Handling Skepticism And Safe Adjustments

SPEAKER_07 36:45

Right right right so we I love that what you guys are talking about because one of the questions I wanted to bring up and and I kind of almost don't have to but I'm gonna anyways there's it seems to me that there's two sides of the street as far as chiropractic goes. There's people who are like I know those guys are just going to mess you up and it's probably because of the they've been to the doctors that you know you feel like you could just got out of a car wreck you know and then there's then there's your side of the street where you guys do a thorough investigation of what's going on so that the adjustments you you make are appropriate for whatever's going on in that particular case. What would you say to someone who is super hesitant about coming in and getting adjusted maybe they had a bad experience or whatever but what would you tell that person?

SPEAKER_00 37:26

How would you encourage them to come and just give it a shot we see that all the time we have a lot of skepticism I've been down the street it got adjusted and you know I hurt for two weeks as far as that really what it comes down is just building the confidence of your skill set every practitioner every chiropractor it's an art set right I mean just because you have the same landscape right if you were to go to an art class they're saying hey go ahead paint this landscape your brush strokes are going to be very different right the paint colors and the the mix is going to be different. So that's really us as chiropractors it's not just what we learn in school it's the adjustment technique and the application of that's what differentiates a chiropractor. And so it's really just gaining the trust that the patient back usually in that instance if they've had a bad experience I want to know exactly what adjustment was performed. Was it soft was it hard was it a manual adjustment was it a drop table was it a device that way I can maybe change that up right go with a softer technique slowly get things moving. Sometimes it's not that the chiropractor down the street did anything wrong they just had too much force for a degenerative spine. Sometimes you got to slowly create some movement allow the body to slowly kind of absorb it create better function and then over time you can get more aggressive if needed so that's really the biggest thing for me is just reiterating and trying to build that rapport and bring confidence in them and slowly ease them into what our style of adjustment is.

SPEAKER_05 39:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 39:06

Right. And and you know just to jump on that is the fact that you know we're heard in 35 40 states and eight or 10 countries you know so they're not all coming to Dr. D's and Dr. Locke's to be adjusted. So it's it's finding that person that chiropractor that you can build that rapport with and feel comfortable with so I I think a lot of it too Ted is to kind of piggyback off what Dr.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Locke said is as a lot of people I mean I would probably talk to those people how I always do is ask them questions like he mentioned of asking them questions. And a lot of times you know it's educating them I learned really early on you know to make sure I tell people there's three things are going to happen after this first adjustment. You're gonna feel better you may feel the same for a while you may hurt and feel sore. Nothing's wrong but now things are moving differently you know and and I have patients where we'll adjust them they'll walk out and and they'll come back in like hey this doesn't feel right like okay let me check out oh yeah there's something else we need to adjust boom it wasn't that I missed it is that when we adjust somebody, we're not going to adjust all 24 segments of the spine. I mean we're gonna adjust areas that we feel are the most um uh locked or subluxated and then the body innately starts to realign everything but oh sometimes it can't realign that on its own you adjust that boom they're they're back to normal again so if you don't kind of prepare a patient initially for that you know they're thinking oh my god maybe worse I this is exactly what I everybody told me I'm never going back again you know and it's unfortunate it was more of the communication of the doctor that was missing in in the and the patient understanding than anything was done wrong.

SPEAKER_08 40:48

I I want to jump on one thing that Dr. Locke said too because in during this podcast we've been we've been learning a lot and you know we were very focused and we are focused on the fourth quarter but what what keeps coming up a current theme is going into that the those years before you know we were interviewing people that were older and you know now we're seeing the value of someone your age or you know my son-in-law who's close to your age in his 30s what they have to offer because it's it's staying healthy and keeping yourself healthy in your 40s and 50s that's going to help you when you get into your 60s and 70s.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah I think the big thing too you know like you said Ted I'm I'm coming up on 40 years old getting to this point you know we have I've had a lot of trauma in my life as far as sports injuries. I mean I played college baseball so going through baseball it I I dealt with a lot I played four years of football as well uh linebacker and uh fullback so I took hits I gave hits you know overall looking back if I would have known chiropractic and what it can do I can't imagine what I would be today. You know I mean it's I think that I do have degeneration in my spine so I know a lot of that happened previously the hard part is a lot of us we don't know when that subluxation happens or that misalignment happens. Why we're young yeah I hurt for a couple days I'm all good however you add 20 years to that now you get up in age and like man my golf game's not good anymore. Now I've got numbers tingling down my back. It didn't just happen from that event this is a compilation over the years. So you know it's the biggest thing once again is prevention and the younger that we can stay active and do the proper things it's gonna create a better outcome long term. Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

And it's never too late to start I mean you know it but I think starting early is important. You look at Doug Doug Doug you look like you're in great shape. I mean look at those arms and you know I'm sure you I'm sure you just started working out last week.

SPEAKER_08 42:59

Why does no one ever say that to me?

SPEAKER_07 43:05

Okay you're better looking Ted you're better looking Ted's got more hair if anything he's got more hair.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

But but the point is that you know you you you you've got to start early and and that's what keeps you healthy. But you know we're in such a mindset that I call it the Amazon Prime attitude. It's like I want it now. You know like I I'm like you you can't just start working out now and expect to look like Doug. I'm like you you can get there I mean you're older but you know you you just got to start at at a at your level and and work up to it. But what a lot of people do I'm sorry hurt more. I'm like I know then slow it down you know you're not 21 anymore take a slower pace stay consistent you know give yourself recovery days in between your exercise you know but but just keep moving forward. It's never too late to start but like Dr. Locke said I mean starting early is probably where you're gonna get a lot more benefit from it.

SPEAKER_07 43:58

Yeah. And Dr. Locke So you said something earlier as as well as about uh connecting the older generation with the young the younger generation, the kids and all that. And that I I love that because as we do get older, we we have a responsibility to our to our kids and our grandkids and to the younger generation to show them by our example, not by our words, but I I used to work with little kids in a uh Montessori preschool, and there was a sign on my desk that said, Don't worry that your kids never listen to you. Worry that they're always watching you. I'm a grandfather, I have seven grandchildren, I have four kids. I stay active and I move. And I was just up in Tahoe last weekend playing with two of my younger granddaughters. One was four, one's gonna be three in July. And it felt it's it's so empowering to have them come and run up into my arms and me throw them up in the air and and they're Papa, let's go in the pool and and not without hesitation, you know, to be able to step into that play environment with them at six at almost 60 years old and just feeling good, but not even thinking twice about it. And I, you know, listening to people like Betty and then getting wisdom from from guys like you and movement is medicine. That's one of the foundational, foundational quotes that Ted and I live by and that we want to promote on this podcast that movement is medicine, man. If you can just keep moving, I used to work in a church environment and there were these volunteer ladies that used to come in and help all the time. One of them was 90, almost a hundred, but you would have sworn she was maybe 70, maybe. She drove in every day by herself, she golfed every day, and she was active, she lived by herself. And I remember pulling her aside and saying, You got to tell me what what's the secret that like you're you're doing all these things and and you're handling. And she said, Don't ever stop moving. She goes, You can stop moving when you're dead. And I'm like, Okay. And and you guys kind of validated all that just by what you're saying. And thank you, you know, thank you so much. I didn't realize the the little intricacies, like there's fluid in the spine, and there's this gelatin thing. Like these things, like when we start, when our brains start making these connections, like, oh, okay. Well, that's why it makes sense. It's not just, it's not you guys aren't just saying, Doug, just go get it done. You're telling me why when I get it done, what's happening, what it impacts, how it affects me. And that, you know, that movement causes that fluid to come back. And man, I'm just I can't wait to. I'm I'm gonna be talking to you guys off air and say, you got to refer me to somebody up here, man, because I unfortunately I don't live in the Bay Area anymore, but you know, I'm excited to go. I've got some I've I'm a cyclist and I fell on my bike about a year ago, and my shoulders have been all jacked up, and and I had x-rays and MRI. They said it's fine, but it's not fine. Something's not right, and so I need to come in and get uh some credit.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

There's a big difference between anatomy and physiology.

SPEAKER_07 46:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:36

So they can look at your anatomy and it's completely fine. Physiology, do those joints move through their full range of motion in and the associated joints? You know, a lot of times with shoulder issues, it's a neck issue. Like you're like, no, it's my shoulder, like, no, it's your spine. All these muscles connect into your spine. So, yeah, that's where we you know try to evaluate that that you know all the time to make sure that you know it's not just yeah, your MRI looks fine, but it doesn't function correctly, right?

SPEAKER_07 47:04

And it's not, and it is definitely not. So, but hearing what you guys are saying, uh I have the like the light bulb has come on, and you know, I have that old athlete mentality. Well, that's a little sore, I'll just keep working through it, working through it. But then I hear you guys say things, you know, you're doing more damage than good down the road here. You know, let's let's smarten up and go get it looked at. And uh because I'd I do I want to be Betty at 82 years old hiking mountains and throwing my grandkids in the air, and uh that that's important to me.

unknown 47:30

That's important.

Balance Brain Benefits And Research

SPEAKER_04 47:30

Well, you know, strength and movement that we've been talking about are so important. I wanted to just you know touch on it for because I'm gonna be 62. And I mean, people at my age or our age and over, I mean, you know, one of the the biggest injury-related deaths is is head trauma. I mean, there's like 40,000 people die each year from injury related to head trauma from falls, you know, and and and people get injured and lose their balance because they don't have strength, they don't have you know good balance. I mean, I I I I think back to I mean, it's a in the opposite direction of a younger girl, a little young little girl years ago. Her mother brought her in and I did adjustments on her. And they're like, why is the kid getting adjusted? Like, well, for wellness. Well, just incidentally, the mom came back and she goes, Ever since she's been getting adjusted, when she goes to her ice skating lessons, like she makes every twist, every turn. And I'm like, Well, what was it before? She goes, She couldn't turn do anything, she was falling all the time. And since she's getting adjusted, her balance is is like enormously better, you know. So, I mean, that applies to any age, even at old older people. I mean, you know, balance is is is you know, from your eyes, your ears, your your feet, you know, your motor skills, and you know, that's where chiropractic excels and where exercise excels.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Yeah, and I'd like to touch on that too, you know, kind of getting at a deeper scientific level. We have mechanoreceptors in our spine, which measure the mechanical biomechanics, if you will. We have proprioreceptors, which measure the balance. So when you get adjusted, actually what happens is all that starts to function. So you can get the improvement in balance, you can get better postural changes, you can get better strength. There's a lot of research on gonna quote Heidi Havoc, she's a chiropractor, she's also has a PhD in neurology, she's really doing a lot of the research for us out of New Zealand, and uh some of her studies are just basically she compares patients that get adjusted with patients that get a fake adjustment, if you will. Crazy results across the board, I think. Increase of 20% up to 24% of prefrontal cortex upregulation. So technically, you're smarter after you get adjusted. Stroke patients. Stroke patients, there's a better outcome for getting adjusted just because you're starting to fire the neurology through the adjustment impact in the mechanoreceptors, the proprioceptors that go up into the brain and create better function throughout your whole body, create better regulation. So that's the the deeper level of chiropractic that you know, Dr. Dees and I in the office. We aren't getting down nitty-gritty unless a patient wants to go down that path. We don't spend a lot of time on it just because it's he I gotta say he does.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

That's why him and I I love him so much. And while we get together, so well, I'm just a simple guy from Pittsburgh. What's the problem? What's the outcome? Let's get this done. You know, and he's like geeks out, and I'm like, man, that's really cool. I didn't know he researches everything, and I love that about him. I'm like, okay, yeah, I knew that was the case, but I didn't know all the details.

SPEAKER_07 50:30

So yeah, that's a good partnership because you you I could see you being the guy that's like, let's just go. And then the doctor likes it, yeah, we're gonna, but we're gonna learn a while we go as well.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

I go with intelligence, I I go with intelligence, not not with uh just uh gut instinct, but yeah, but he he he helps me pick up all the data on this stuff, so yeah.

SPEAKER_08 50:48

Yeah, no, great, great team. Yeah, so go ahead. People say that about Doug and I a lot.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Doug Doug wants to get him up and going and moving, and uh you know, he gets he gets all excited, and uh I try and bring it back in a little bit and say let's start a little slower than uh you look at what Disney, Walt Disney was the the the visionary, and and Roy Disney was the you know the in the operator, the guy that got everything done, you know. I mean, so you need that in a team, right? Great partnership. Yeah, man.

Clinic Details Treatments And Contact

SPEAKER_08 51:18

I mean, you guys have given us a ton of information today. We really appreciate it for sure.

SPEAKER_07 51:23

But before we Ted, before we move into the music section, because I think we've got we've extrapolated plenty from these guys right now, and we should definitely have them back on down the road. Where can people are you guys on social media, Instagram, Facebook, and are you do you have a website? Where where's your office? And if people wanted to reach out, how what's the best way to get a get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_04 51:42

Yeah, we we've got it's www.canyonchiroptic.com. We also have uh sfbaywellness.com. So we do a lot of neuropathy treatment for people with peripheral neuropathy, also. Um yeah, we're on Instagram and I mean he can probably speak more to that. I I'm kind of not anti-social media, but it's it's definitely not on my radar all the time. Okay, no worries, no worries.

SPEAKER_07 52:05

And I can put the links to these things in the show notes as well, so people can just click on a link. Is I just need to know what they are so I can look them up and then I can add them to the to the show notes. And when people are reading the show notes, they can just click on the link if they want to see check out your social media or your websites.

SPEAKER_04 52:19

And and our number is uh 925-867-1414. That's our office number. And and him and I are always available. If some people just have questions, I mean, if you need us to help you find somebody, you know, in some other state or wherever, you know, we'll do our best to try to help you out or you know, guide you in any way we can. I mean, we're we're here to help people, not just you know, better our business, but the better chiropractic.

SPEAKER_07 52:41

Excellent. And what and what town are you guys in?

SPEAKER_00 52:44

So we're in San Roman, California.

SPEAKER_07 52:46

So in San Ramon, California.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

So in the Bay Area, the East Bay Area. And then we've been there since '93.

SPEAKER_07 52:51

Okay. And what's the actual again, and you probably said it earlier in the show, but what's the name of your Canyon Chiropractic? Canyon chiropractic, okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Uh we do uh operate uh SF Bay wellness out of there as well. So we've got uh two suites and we kind of commingle on both sides, but they're kind of two separate things. Um sometimes there's overlap though, all right, as far as uh peripheral neuropathy, needing low back mainly uh spinal decompression.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

So we offer yeah, spinal decompression, shock wave therapy, which is some people know as a soft wave. We have PMF pulsed electromagnetic frequency, we've got knee treatments, neuropathy treatments. Yeah, we you know do nutrition, weight loss. I mean, so we we've got kind of a big round of approach.

SPEAKER_08 53:39

Wow, very cool. Maybe maybe we can get you out to the birthday challenge this year and yeah, adjust as as we as we go. We may need some help during the day.

SPEAKER_04 53:47

And we may need a little bit of intel on the on what this entails before.

SPEAKER_08 53:51

Okay, Ted will get that over to you for sure. Yeah, we'll do.

Song Pick Takeaways And Goodbye

SPEAKER_07 53:55

I'll be seeing you, I'll be seeing you soon. Yeah, but thank you, gentlemen, for uh we're gonna move into the the music portion. This is where Ted has spent time and strain and pain choosing that exact perfect song for this.

SPEAKER_08 54:08

Well, you know, it is it is a little tougher because you know, we had a nutritionist on, and I I was a little too literal with that, and I tried to find a song that was tied to nutrition, and I've been taking uh a lot of kidding, I guess we'll say, since since we did that. And you know, that was my first thought. My first thought was Tom Petty, I won't back down, or Huey Lewis, back in time. I got past that. You know, I I kind of tapped into my experience with you and and going through the the treatment that I did. Realize that at some point in our lives, we we just have to make that decision, you know, especially as we get older, you know, whether, you know, do we want to lose weight, substance abuse issues, in my case, severe back pain, you just you give up or do you decide to do something about it? There's not going to be that lightning bolt moment, but you just have to uh you have to go out there and get it done.

SPEAKER_05 56:48

All right.

SPEAKER_07 56:48

So now we guys get to comment on you know what what did the song bring up for you mentally, intellectually, emotionally. What'd you think about it?

SPEAKER_04 56:56

Well, on the front of our door, I put on it years ago, expect a miracle. Uh you know, people are like, I'm walking, I want my miracle. I'm like, well, we'll do our best to give it to you. So chiropractic adds years to your life and life to your years. So let's get going. Love that. Dr. Locks.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

I think just the biggest thing from that song is just keep on going. I mean, just keep on marching, keep on moving. One more day. That's all we have, you know. Live in the present and you know, take care of yourself and you know, be preventative and do the things that you need to to give you the best outcome. But yeah, just live live in the moment. That's really what it is.

SPEAKER_07 57:36

Yeah. And I really don't have much to add. I mean, it's this is it. I mean, this is it. You know, expect that miracle. You gotta expect that miracle, or it ain't coming, man. That's that's just belief, right? That's your belief system. And you can show up hesitant, scared, or whatever, but just show up and get and go get it done.

SPEAKER_04 57:51

Be careful what you look for.

SPEAKER_08 57:53

Yeah, you know, and that's that's what it meant to me was just uh, you know, I just got to a point where, you know, is this it? Do I just quit taking things away, or do I go out and do something about it? And and one more little thing, just trivia, and you'll appreciate Doug being a 49er fan. That's the song that Bill Walsh played before the 1982 Super Bowl in the locker room.

SPEAKER_05 58:16

Oh, he did, okay. Good to know Bill Walsh. Very good, very good. All right, you guys.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

Jerry Rice, huge proponent of chiropractic. He's out there talking about chiropractic, how it uh basically allowed him to continue his career. So he's a huge advocate, which is really cool.

Subscribe Share And Send Feedback

SPEAKER_07 58:36

Jerry Rice. Good, excellent. All right, Ted, is there anything else you want to say before we wrap this up? Nope. And I'm just gonna do like I always do and say, God bless and peace out. Thank you, guys. Thank you. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe, follow, share an episode. If you want to leave a comment, go to the show notes. There's a text link there. We will receive an anonymous text from you with any comments or suggestions. Thanks again for tuning in, and most importantly, keep on coming back.