EP029: Be A Force For Good: When Pain Fuels Purpose

“Stiffness is the agent of death.” That line hit us like a wake-up call, and it sets the tone for a conversation that’s equal parts practical and deeply human. We’re joined again by Jonathan Pasqual, an endurance athlete and coach living with stage 4 paraganglioma, a rare neuroendocrine cancer. He looks like the picture of health on the outside, but he’s honest about what’s really happening inside: chronic pain from cancer in the bones, breathing limits as tumors press on airways, and the constant need to adjust so he can keep living fully.

We talk about what “movement is medicine” actually means when movement hurts. Jonathan breaks down how he uses a healthy expectation, self-regulation, and the talk test to stay safe without quitting. We also get into coaching philosophy: listening first, building a plan around real life, and respecting recovery so athletes don’t train their way into injury. If you’ve ever felt stuck because you can’t do what you used to do, his reframe is powerful: your body only asks what you can bring today, while your ego demands yesterday’s numbers.

You’ll also hear the details for JP’s Backyard Ultra and Hike on September 26, 2026 at Skyline Wilderness Park in Napa. It’s a 3.3-mile loop event open to runners, hikers, and walkers, built around community, medals for all, fundraising for the Pheo Para Alliance, and a simple invitation to “be a force for good.” Subscribe for more fourth-quarter motivation, share this with a friend who needs a reset, and leave us a review so more people can find the show.

Get all the details HERE: JP's Backyard Ultra/Hike, The Final Edition

Follow Jonathan on IG: @jpconbrio

Do a deep dive on Jonathan’s story here: Jonathan Pasquale Linktr.ee

Transcript

Wake Up And Show Mission

SPEAKER_05 0:08

Wake up, wake up, and listen up. Welcome to the fourth quarter podcast with your hosts, Doug Talmud, and Ted and Mia. Tune in as we dive into living your best life in the fourth quarter of your life. Hear from health and lifestyle experts, inspirational stories, learn simple steps to keep you motivated or to help get you started. Finally, join us as we coach others live on air who want to begin a healthy lifestyle or just might be stuck and need a breakthrough. Remember, it's never too late to decide to be great. Momentum keeps you motivated, so take a deep breath. Leave it and let's go. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the fourth quarter with Doug and Ted. We have an awesome returning guest this week, and I am excited to catch up with this young man. Oh my goodness, he has been, I follow him on social media, and this guy's been everywhere. And he's doing all kinds of things to uh snorkeling, swimming, walking, hiking, seeing amazing sites, doing cool stuff with animals. It's really cool to see this guy. And again, sure, a lot of people travel, a lot of people do a lot of cool stuff. But when you hear Jonathan's story, by the way, I want to mention his full story. His full story is in episode four. I don't fear death. I fear not living fully. That's the title of the episode, but it's episode four. You want to go listen to Jonathan Pasqual and listen to his full story. Today he's going to give us a broad stroke of what he's going through, the cancer he was diagnosed with, I believe it's almost five years ago, paraganglioma, uh, that he's been diagnosed with and has been, man, he has stepped up to the plate, he has confronted it, and he is living fully right now. And so we want to talk about what that looks like, any challenges, setbacks, and things that he might be going through. But I'm excited to have Jonathan back

Ted’s August Reset Check-In

SPEAKER_05 2:07

on. But before we get to Jonathan, before we get to Jonathan, Ted, last week you and I talked. We just caught up. We you were talking about a reset, some struggling, some bumps in the roads, and we said, hey, let's let's get on air and hold Ted accountable. And so, Ted, you shared some things that you were going to commit to and go through for the month of August. You were going to have August be your reset month. How's that going, brother?

SPEAKER_04 2:31

It's it's going pretty well. I've had some challenges with some of the things. The biggest part is it's a good thing I'm retired because it's almost like a full-time job trying to squeeze everything in. Yeah. Um I've gotten steps, push-ups, that stuff. All you know, that's kind of what I do. I'm I'm back to that. Need to get out on the bike a little bit more. Went out Saturday and did a 30-mile ride, which felt pretty good, but just need to make time to get on the bike a little bit more. My biggest challenge, I'll tell you, is the balance. Wow. Standing on one foot and lifting another one off the ground for 30 seconds. My goodness, I I just struggle. I go, I'm tipping over, I'm grabbing the countertop, I'm doing whatever I need to do, but I'm getting it done. It's getting a little bit better. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. And we're, you know, we'll get into that more next week. We're gonna have Karen back, who's one of the people we've been coaching, and she is just knocking it out of the park. And so I'll get into more detail because she's she's pushing me, pushing me hard with a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

So she is she has shifted into to another gear, and it's like, oh, where did Karen go? There she goes.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

Yeah, exactly. And so I you know, we'll we'll dig a little bit deeper into some of the things, but right now I think I'm living up to my commitments, we'll we'll put it that way. Getting getting things done, and hopefully get a little more time on the bike this week. That's my my biggest goal.

SPEAKER_05 4:11

Right on, brother. One one day at a time, one week at a time.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

Yeah, you know, a couple things just from past episodes. I

Put Your Mask On First

SPEAKER_04 4:19

had somebody reach out to me last week, and there was something that came up you mentioned, and I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something about we we care about others, we care about taking care of the other things.

SPEAKER_05 4:30

Oh, we will do we will do more for others than we will for ourselves, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:35

You know, and we we kind of jumped off on that point and just said that you have to take care of yourself, or you might not be there for others. So somebody reached out to me and said, you know, that's reminded them of when you're you're on a plane and they they're going through all the safety stuff. The first thing they say is low pressure, a mask will drop down, put yours on first, and then take care of your child or whatever. Right. And it was it was a great point that they made was you know, it fit in with exactly what you were saying.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Uh you know, you have to take care of yourself uh before you take care of others, and so that that reminded her of it. The other thing, and and jumping back a couple of episodes back to Nick, because I was thinking about this, and I don't think Nick ever shared this with you. You know, he he's so positive about things, but did you know that when he was, I want to say maybe 11 years old, maybe a little bit older, 12, 13, he had scoliosis. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, and back then the way they took care of it is they did surgery from his neck to the bottom of his spine. They opened him up and they put two rods in his back. Wow. And then he was in a cast from his waist to his neck for 11 months, didn't get out of bed for 11 months. 11 months? 11 months. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

Yeah, that's insane. And he doesn't he doesn't bring it up much, but it makes sense with Nick. I mean, he's so he's so focused on you know positivity and and things, it could always be worse, you know.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

And yeah, exactly. He's got a great mindset. I wonder if it can only be worse came up during those 11 months, because man, I can't imagine can't imagine that what he was going through. But I just thought that was that was funny. That kind of came to mind and thought I'd share that. And thank you. You know, he's out there now living life, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:48

Walking, hiking. He sent me some pictures, I think it was Sunday, I forget where he was hiking, but absolutely beautiful area, gorgeous lake, mountains surrounding him. He's a picture of some moose antlers. He couldn't get the whole moose, but he got the antlers, and it was it was cool. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

Yeah. Well, speaking

JP Returns With Hard Truths

SPEAKER_04 7:06

about traveling and seeing beautiful scenery and positive attitude, Jonathan Pascual is back with us this week, and he's going to give us some updates on his health, but more importantly, he's going to fill us in on what's been going on with him. We see him on social media, he's been traveling a lot. He's been visiting with running clubs all throughout the Bay Area, and he's got his big event coming up in September. And one of the things I just want to mention because it struck me last time he was on, and it's the same thing now. Of course, this is you know, we see him on Zoom, but this is an audio podcast. But he looks like the picture of health. He does always has a smile on his face. Always. So welcome back, Jonathan. It's great to have you back and look forward to hearing your story.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Oh, thank you so much for having me again, Doug and Ted. It's it's really a pleasure. I mean, I can't help smiling, of course, because I'm really touched, you know, like you reaching out again and seeing how how I am doing, and and and we can talk about it and I can share. And it it's it's it's good to hear from you again.

SPEAKER_05 8:26

Awesome, awesome. So, Jonathan, real quick, what's because I definitely want to make sure we massively promote your event coming up. And I'm just gonna tell you the name, but JP's backyard ultra. It's still called that, right? That that is correct.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

It's JP's backyard ultra and hike. And hike, okay. So you become a so you don't have to be a runner, you could be a hiker or a walker. Absolutely. And uh, I think initially people will be put off and say, Ultra, I don't even run. I mean, why would I even join? And it is it is a hike, and uh all people of different abilities, backgrounds, age, even yes, you know, you can go there for one loop for 3.3 miles, or could be the person who had been preparing for this event and go all 10 loops of 33.3 miles, or anywhere in between.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

Wow, yeah. As a matter of fact, Ted's gonna be out there. Ted's got a prior commitment. I think it's a wedding or something down uh down the road, about an hour or so. But he's gonna come, make sure he gets in at least one lap, if not two, and then go back to his wedding. So good on you, Ted, for supporting, showing up and supporting. I myself am gonna be there to help JP out or Jonathan, whatever you like want to be called there, with some of the MCing so that Jonathan could shake hands, talk to people, spend a little more time really connecting and thanking people for showing up in support. And so I'll be the I'll be the voice in the background announcing what's happening next or where you can find this or that. And and I'm excited to show up and in support, Jonathan, because I just I love your vibe and I love you, brother. You're doing some awesome stuff.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Well, thank you so much. And uh your contribution is truly invaluable. And you bringing your energy and your enthusiasm uh on the day off, I I know that won't carry a lot of people. So thank you so much, Doug.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. So, Jonathan, real quick broad stroke. Again, again, I said the word, it's a little challenging for me sometimes to say those big words, but paraganglioma, diagnosed uh almost five years ago. Is that correct? The timeline, did I get that right?

SPEAKER_02 10:37

That is correct. I was diagnosed March 24 of 2022. Paraganglioma is a very rare cancer. Two to six people out of one million will have this neuroendocrine type of cancer. Um and that is why part of my mission is making paraganglioma not so rare. You know, if if I don't want a million followers, I want a million people to know the word paraganglioma.

SPEAKER_05 11:08

Wow, I love that. And and what a lot of people won't know on this episode too in too much depth is that you were you're a you have a athletic background, triathlete, you've done an Iron Man, you've done many multiple ultras, cycling events, running. You're out there now inspiring run clubs and doing things, but with paraganglioma, I understand that it, if I remember correctly, it impacts your lungs and your bones. And so there's been a dwindling of your ability to participate at the level you used to. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 11:41

That is correct. I've actually foreseen that as part of my decline when I was diagnosed. Uh, you know, it's it's stage four, and that's what makes it terminal. And all the treatments that I've received: radiation, surgery, chemotherapy, targeted therapy, all of that is for stability and to prolong my life and my quality of life. And as far as uh my activities, I officially called it as far as my retirement, uh May 2025 as my last race. Although I would have to say that the training, I still call it training, continues. That swimming, biking, running, hiking, walking, lifting some weights, all of that at a very reduced effort, focusing more on time on feed and the time on movement is still there because I know very well that movement is medicine. And I know very well that that is what's prolonging my life on top of the other things that I'm I'm doing.

SPEAKER_05 12:49

Right. And I noticed noticed from I remember from our last episode, again, episode four, you guys got to check it out. You were talking about how difficult and how challenging it was. That the progression made it very difficult for you to move, let alone compete in any kind of an event. And yet, recently, Ted and I have commented that we were like, man, Jonathan's all over the place. He's he's traveling, he's doing this. Tell us how's how is that how does that work out? How do you do that? And and are do you suffer on them trips as well, physically?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

I think when I said I I foresaw this, that means that I knew that I can pick myself up during treatments and you know, do the races that I did over the three years uh since I was diagnosed, you know. Right. I competed in ultra marathons, I did marathons, half marathons, and the pinnacle of my athletic career, which is the Iron Man World Championship in Kona. Pretty much the uh what we call the Super Bowl of our sport, triathlon. And then from there I declined. And so I saw that if I maintain at least the activity level, then I can go on to the next step, which is you know, you keep moving, find something else that is more purposeful and meaning for you. And part of that is actually involving myself with other uh clubs, you know, run clubs, like you mentioned, different groups who invite me to speak, and then I travel. It's like I'm traveling almost every month, different parts of the world. And yes, it can become difficult because uh I have chronic pain, the cancer has spread throughout my bones. So if I sit too long, it will be painful, if I stand too long, it will be painful. Walk too long, it will be painful. So I have to keep adjusting and getting some rest throughout the day. And really, the only time that I feel like I'm getting some relief is if if I lie down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Wow. Wow. And it just it really shows though the you know the points that we've always tried to make on this podcast. It's people in the fourth quarter. I mean, there are times you don't feel like doing it, but the benefits of movement are so important to you at any age and with any restrictions you may have medically, you know, as long as it's approved by a doctor, obviously. But but getting out there and moving and and how that can improve your your life as you move forward.

SPEAKER_05 15:31

Yeah. And I like what Hans said in a in a few uh Hans is a chiropractor, and he has is one of the owners of the six chiropractic club in Santa Rosa.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

Physical therapist.

SPEAKER_05 15:41

Or physical therapist. I'm sorry. Sorry, Hans. I take that back, Hans. You are physical therapist and you're really good. But he I love his quote as well is motion is lotion. And it sounds like that's very fitting for for you as well, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Is you the movement that keeps you moving. I'd like to add to that. When I was a young ICU nurse in the UCSF Medical Center in San Francisco before I became a nurse practitioner, there was this elderly Asian, I would think she would, I remember she was Chinese, and you know, her heart was giving her trouble, arrhythmias. But I found her out of bed, you know, stretching, kicking her feet up in the air, and she said, My God, this is not right. You know, I I'm having difficulty. What do you mean? You're like so flexible. No, this is not my normal. And then she told me something. She said that stiffness is the agent of death. And you, if you tell something like that to a 24-year-old who's trying to become an athlete, an evolving athlete, right? Right. I said, Wow, that's pretty profound. I I have to look into that. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

I love that. Say it again. What's that quote again? He said, Stiffness is the agent of death. I'm writing that down. Stiffness is the agent of death.

SPEAKER_05 17:10

I know. We gotta do it. That might be the title for this episode.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

I I've noticed that as I've aged, I I do get stiffer. I need to work on my flexibility.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't take as long to get as stiff anymore. It's just like you sit down for a couple seconds and then you get up and all of a sudden you're making those noises. Uh it's like what's funny is when I make them noises, my little granddaughters who are three and four, they they they copy me and they do them too.

Coaching Beginners By Listening First

SPEAKER_05 17:45

So, Jonathan, I one of the things I noticed also is that you're out there also. I think you're aren't you coaching someone or a couple people, like for triathlons or for something? I know you're coaching people. Is that am I right?

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah, so I actually took certification as level one coach for the Road Runners Club of America. Part of the ideas that I put forth to local run club called Square One Run Club is that I think one of the best things that we can do for beginner runners is to actually have them a feel for what coaching is like. So that is one of the projects that I would like to work on with them, is that I take on beginner runners and teach them how to run and be slowly guided into theirs, you know, if their first 5K, their first 10K, first half marathon. And on top of that, I people have come up to me and asked me to guide them with their own triathlon journeys. There are a couple of athletes who are doing their first half Iron Man, which is 70.3 miles, 1.2 mile of swimming, 56 miles bike of riding, followed by a half marathon, 13.1 miles. And then I have another athlete who is doing the full Iron Man distance, which is 140.6 miles, double of the aforementioned swim, bike, and run that I that I told you about. So I I'm there to I I think the best thing that a coach can do is to establish a relationship with the athlete and really be forthright and say, what is happening with your life? You know, is this really the best thing for you right now? And the what are I I want to listen to them. That's the main thing, is that they tell me where they are, and from there we can actually safely get to their goal. Because when you're a beginner, you can have like really high goals in it, and then it doesn't really meet with reality. And you know, we want to prevent injuries or you not finishing a race or not even getting to the starting line and things like those. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 20:09

I love the fact that you listen like that. That's that's quality, that's high level.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

I was I was just gonna say that it just seems like there's a lot of coaches out there that feel I know what I'm doing, I'm gonna tell you what's what's going on because I'm the expert, versus listening to the athlete and working together as one team seems to be, you know, a lot of times the information is coming from the top, and this is the way it is, and you'll listen to me. And it's great to hear that the first thing you're doing, I guess, in any relationship and any communication is is listening as well.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Yeah, I actually also coach a an ultramarathoner. His first attempt at a hundred-mile run didn't lead to what he wanted, which was a finish. So two years ago, I I worked with him, and you know, he finished his first hundred-mile run, and and again I coached him this year. He finished his second hundred-mile run, but there were choices that he made that uh I didn't know. And and that is a learning process for the athlete. That you can't sign up from one race after another without telling me, without communicating to me that you're doing that, because that that's not really part of the plan. And I don't know how you're actually going to recover from that. Right. And and that is the part where in a coach can say, you know, it does take time to recover from this. But sometimes I would just sit back and okay, well, you've already paid the money for it. I'm not gonna dissuade you now. I think the best lesson here is experience. And now we sat down after all the hundred miles and And all that, and said, Well, there you go. You know, your failures is my failure too. But we are going through this together, and it's not really a failure. We we got the goals. It's just that you learn through experience that it takes so much time to recover when you are racing ultra marathons. You know, you do a hundred miler, it would take you for some athletes, specifically him, you know, four four weeks, five weeks before he feels like, oh, okay, I get it now. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

That's how I felt when I did my three miles preparing for your thing.

SPEAKER_05 22:45

You know, you remind me of you, you remember Daryl, the co-host for the Peach Podcast, and and his buddy Eric, my our buddy Eric. They just did this year in the springtime the Sedona 125. Yes, yes. And yeah, so they were hey, whoo, talking about getting beat up. But they did it. They completed. We were so proud of them. It was great to be out there. I was I was a crew guy, so I was out there making sure that they got what they needed at every stop. And um, and all those stops were well uh supported as well anyway. So, but it's the recovery, you know. I I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm not gonna throw him under the bus, but my boy Daryl, you know, he's he is so driven. And man, it's uh sometimes it's hard for him to sit still, which is it could be a great quality when you're in a time of stress and you need to push through and do all that stuff. But if you have the time to rest and you're not choosing to rest, sometimes it can be a detriment. And so I'm glad I'm so glad you're you see the value and you're expressing from your experience here. So a lot of people can listen that recovering it's it's just as important as the training. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and and Daryl's gotten a lot better, man. He enlisted in a lot of rec recovery modalities, and so I'm I'm really proud of him for really kind of slowing down a little bit. And but he still goes, man. He still goes. And you know what? Part of me is I wish I could be like him, but the other part of me is like, but then I would never recover.

unknown 24:08

Yeah.

Reset, Recover, Start Again

SPEAKER_04 24:10

Well, and I I think that's that's a key thing too. Again, going you know, back to people in the fourth quarter, is at some point you have to listen to your body. You know, you can you can push, push, push, but if your body's telling you you need a break, then you need to take a break. You need to listen to your body and and rest a little bit and recover.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah, I I actually have a talk coming up, and part of the things that I'm doing is that you know, I get invited to different groups, high school students, nurses and doctors, rotary club, so on and so forth. But the next one is about it's uh active wellness in Napa, and they're associated with the the hospital, Kino De Valley. And the audience I was told are people who have chronic illness or people who have gone through cancer therapy or have Parkinson's and you know, people who are going through some difficulties. And what I'm trying to get at here is sometimes the most difficult part as far as like getting onto the movement part is that we we have an expectation of what we were able to do before, or maybe searching for something that what we can do in the future and pushing for that so hard. And I I remember saying something to the effect that you know, your body only expects what you can bring today, the ego always expects to bring what you did yesterday. So I I do think that uh it is a learning process for people to just start and and not push too hard. There are places appropriately wherein you can actually stretch the rubber band, but not so much that it breaks. And there is a place wherein you actually just need to do the work on top of each other consistently over days, over weeks, over months. And that right there is the the evidence that you need. And sometimes we don't have the confidence just to start, but confidence requires evidence, and the evidence is just starting, doing the easy, and and you go on from that. And you know what? Quite frankly, Ted, you you mentioned something about a reset. I'm perpetually in that situation. I feel like I'm I'm sisyphus, I'm pushing the rock up the hill, and he keeps crushing me. And then, you know, what are you gonna do about it? I tell myself, start again, and then I have to practice what I preach. Like today, you know, uh this week has been quite tough for me. And I said, Well, Jonathan, get on the bike 30 minutes, easy pedaling, put on you know, the Tour de France. You know, the femmes are are going at it right now. Something like that. So I have to practice what I preach. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

Love that. Yeah, and that was our episode last week. We talked about the the RE words, you know, reset, recalibrate, refocus, reframe, whatever it is. Yeah. And you know, it's just that's like you said, that's constant. It's yeah, we we did a reset for the month of August, and that's what we talked about last week. But you're exactly right. Come September, it's is this working? Now I need to reset again. What am I to do next month or next week or tomorrow? You know, it's just constant. And you know, you mentioned before we started recording today that you track everything that you've been doing, is correct?

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yeah, I like looking at data and trends. You can zoom in and zoom out, and when I say data, I just have a watch that most people, a lot of people wear now to monitor their running, their swimming, their biking, their sleep, even. You know, watches have have become so smart, right? It's smart watches basically. So I have the data as far as uh the number of hours of activity activity that I do total, and the number of miles, my heart rate. And over time I have plugged this in a graph, and I superimpose uh when I got my treatments, when I got my radiation, my chemotherapy, and my my heart rate over that. And I can see the uh effects of training when I try to pick myself up, like there's an improvement, and basically I'm just looking at consistency more than anything. You know, am I still the guy who's trying to put an eight to ten hours of work every week, just as a baseline, not even training? That's where I was before. And I am finding that very difficult. So it be if it becomes a walk, you know, or a hike, which I actually do, and I count it as a my workout when I travel in in different parts of the world, like you know, that's a lot of walking, that's a lot of hiking. So that that I will count that as training. I'm no longer the same guy, but it is data. It does tell me that okay, that that intervention right there, if you're able to maintain that, you can enjoy all of this. You can keep going outside, you can keep traveling, you can travel with your wife, your son, your friends and family. And and that is my outlook now is if you want something, you better put the work into it.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

Yeah. You know, Jonathan, when we were off here earlier, as Ted mentioned, you talked to us about that data, and you said you can clearly see the decline from when you started taking the data to today. And and I have to imagine when you see it like that on paper in ink, you're like, oh my gosh, it makes it more real. What I love about you though, and what I hope everyone can hear, is that you know, a lot of times in life, people who are training or jobs or relationships or whatever, and we set a goal or we set an intention, and man, sometimes the graph in our personal lives, it just declines for a while. And that's a that's a necessary thing for us to get stronger and go through and build up. In your case, it's a little different, it's a little more unique. But regardless of your your case, even be more more different, more unique, and you know, with a with just a hard outcome at the at the end-to-end result is just that you still have this ability to say, well, you know, what where can how can I move my baseline up? How can I move? You're not giving up, you're not stopping, you're not saying, oh well, this ain't working. Even though you see an overall decline, you know that you got to keep going. Like, how do

Data Versus Body Wisdom

SPEAKER_05 31:30

you do that? What what's going on in your mind? What what would make what drives you to be like that?

SPEAKER_02 31:34

So this is the value of being a clinician and having access to your medical records. Like you and me and a lot of people have uh let's we call it my chart, right? Right. We we can see our labs, we can see our x-rays and ct scan. Well, I'm a clinician. I actually can interpret that, and I've spent more time than my own doctors looking at those things, right? So I I have an explanation for my decline. I can compare my CT scans over time, and this is the reason why I'm declining. The cancer has spread so much. The tumor is pressing on this big blood vessel, there are more cancers in the lungs. I'm wheezing in much more short of breath now because this tumor is pressing on the airway, and that's why I'm I'm wheezing all the time. And what do I do about it? So, with that, I have a pretty healthy expectation of how I can continue moving, working out, but reining myself in so that I don't get to the danger part. The danger part is I get too dizzy, I may faint and fall, I'm on blood thinners. That's a no-no. I cannot lift too much because I've got cancer throughout my bones. And if I lift too much, I will break my bones. So there is this very healthy expectation of being able to manage the work that I do. Right. Looking at my heart rate, knowing that I cannot push it too much, otherwise, I won't have enough cardiac output, and therefore blood flow to my brain, and you know, my vision will be turned dark. However, you can remove my watch, right? Right, and I can keep moving, and I don't need the technology because the body, the mind, is a far more powerful technology in monitoring your perceived exertion. Now the Now the effort as far as the perceived exertion that I'm saying is you really need to be attuned to your body. Meaning this takes time to see that with this kind of effort, I'm pushing myself a little bit with my walk or my run, and my breathing is changing with that, and I can feel like, oh, maybe my heart rate is going too high. This is where the coach, I think, and even the athlete will have to learn where you need to be going through different kinds of, you know, zones is a very like technical thing, right? And you don't necessarily have to learn all of that. You can really simplify it like, okay, this is green, this is orange, this is red, you know, and it doesn't have to be like you need to have a watch. It's just like being attuned to your your breathing pattern and say, okay, if you're getting to that point wherein it's harder to actually speak in full sentences, then back off. If you're only able to talk in phrases, then that means you're really pushing hard. Or if you only have like one word or you're just cussing, then that means you know you're you need every breath and and and and you're really pushing yourself to that red area, right? Right. So we can do this without all the technology, it's just nice that we have it and we can pair it with with the technology. Yeah, so I use the same thing. I use the same thing that I don't wait for my heart rate to be 135. I already know. I'm like, oh my god, if I push another 10 seconds, I'm gonna kill over. That's actually where I live now, and and for for quite a long time now. So it it's it's this self-regulation, this internal regulation that I have mastered over like two and a half decades.

SPEAKER_05 36:09

Yeah. I mean, I love what when he just said, Ted, when he just said, you know, I have cancer in all of my bones. If I lift too heavy, I will I will break. What I love about is that he's not using that as an excuse to not lift or to not exercise or to not move, but he's circumventing it. He's like, What can I do? How can I do that? And a lot of people will get a diagnosis like that and say, Well, I can't they get couch ridden, you know, they're gonna watch TV and eat snacks all day. And that's not Jonathan's answer right now, you know.

SPEAKER_04 36:42

He's well, I think I think that's that mindset. It's what can't I do versus what can I do? You know, and it's not an excuse. And going back, Jonathan, it's it's really interesting what you were saying about not having the technology. Is I finally got my bike down off the hooks in the garage after a while, and my computer, which is who knows how old, many years, just finally finally died on me. And I've been riding the last few rides I've done, I've ridden without a computer. And I came home and told my wife, I said, you know, it's just so nice because I just listen to my body. If I feel like pushing a little harder, I push harder. If I feel I need to back off, I back off. I'm not looking at my computer saying, I'm only going 15 miles an hour. I need to, I need to push it. So it's really been nice, and I don't know that I'm going to replace it. You know, I've still got a Fitbit, I'm still getting information, but I'm not seeing it right in front of me all the time. It's kind of nice just to go out and enjoy riding and just being out there.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I I think uh that's one thing that I do suggest to fellow athletes that you know you gotta have a technology free run, you know, a watch-free run when you're not looking at your page, your heart rate, just go by feel. And then more often than not, I I'll hear something like, oh man, that was great. You know, I wasn't looking at my watch, I was just going by if I wanted to go faster, I'd go. And if I needed to slow down, I'll slow down. And if I needed to go for a little bit of like a you know, 10 second, 15-second walk break, then I'll do it. And it was very freeing, is what I was hearing. Yeah, I could, I could see.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

Not to mention, and I'm sure there's some science behind this, but when I do that, I tend to uh I'll look at you know whatever app I'm using on my phone after the fact, but my average speed is usually a little bit higher because I'm just more in tune with my body and and how hard I'm working and listening to my body. And overall, I guess you're just more efficient in doing that. And like I said, I'm sure there's some science behind it, but sometimes we get too caught up in technology. It's great to have. But you know, and that goes beyond being on the bike. I think just too much technology in general.

SPEAKER_05 39:22

Yeah, I'm gonna be keep it real though, fellas, for for the for data guys like you and even myself, it's we want that data. Maybe not even for the moment, but just to see the progression or the decline, you know, to so to give us the way. But you know what? Uh, maybe I'm going too soft out here or whatever, or too hard. It's hard. That's a mental thing for sure.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

Yeah. Well, you know, uh, before we get to the music, uh, Jonathan, could you just give us a little more?

How The Backyard Ultra Works

SPEAKER_04 39:52

Give us all the information on the event again, the date, how to get on, how to register. And and even if you don't register, how to donate, because it's if if I noticed there's no cost for the event, is that correct? It's just all donations.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yes. So the event is called JP's Backyard Ultra and Hike. It is on September 26, 2026, in Skyline Wilderness Park. And people can register for the event on runsignup.com. And all you have to do when once you get to that website is type in JP's Backyard Ultra and Hike. And I can also provide you the website. And once you get to the website, you have all the information there. First, let me just tell you briefly: you know, it's a 3.3 mile loop with about 550 feet of climbing. And everybody starts together at 8 a.m. And it doesn't matter how fast or how slow you are, all the runners stop at the main aid station. We will welcome you there. And everybody starts again at 9 a.m. and go the opposite direction. So if a runner can finish the run in, let's say, 40 minutes, and a hiker did his or her hike at 50 minutes, then everybody starts again at 9 a.m. And then same thing at 10 a.m. Everybody starts again. Runners and hikers, and and you keep going. And if you are done with your loop, or if you want to go more, but if you're done, you you get a medal. Everybody gets a medal. And and I designed that medal this year. And yes, it is free. I do ask for people to donate to the FIO Para Alliance. In the website itself, there's a donate button. On the day of the event, we will have QR codes that you can donate to the FIO Para Alliance. But it is also a fundraiser day. We will have raffle tickets and you will win raffle baskets. There will be many gift certificates. There will be specialty auctions wherein, you know, we've got shoes, we've got gadgets, we've got uh like all these electrolytes and food and and all these things and wine. It's Napa Valley, right? That is for auction. And that is our way of uh having people donate in a different manner. If you didn't donate at the website, you can walk out of there and hopefully you you win. And we're going to have plenty and plenty of prizes for everyone. I do provide child care from 8 to 12. So for the parents out there who want to do one or two loops, we have volunteers who will watch your kids. And then at lunch, which is at 11 a.m., I provide pre-lunch. Now, just so you know, over the last four years, uh I've been funding this event. You know, the model is that I build it and you will come. And it has been quite successful. I think the food is a very big draw. It's a very big catered lunch. I have help from friends and family and many businesses to uh help me uh hold this event. So at the end of the day, for the people who finish 10 loops, we have trophies, we have medals, and we have wine for them for the fastest number 10 loop and the fastest cumulative time for the number 10 loops for all 10 loops. Wow. And I do have to say here for anyone listening there, the bid. We have bids for people who are attempting 10 loops. So You're gonna go for eight loops or nine loops, you might as well go for all ten, and you will need a bid. So uh I I I do need confirmation from you that you are going to do uh 10 loops when you do the registration process. Again, I I think it's a day of being out there with friends and family. It's not simply a running event. And we use the word community a lot, and so much that sometimes I feel that it loses its meaning. But the meaning for this event is that you are doing something far more than for yourself. I think you're being part of a group that came together because they want to make a difference for people who are still fighting for against cancer, for those who we are honoring because they've lost their lives to cancer. And you and it could be for your own benefit too, because you have your own personal goals, and and that's the reason why I made this event. But this is different because you actually get to stop and talk to people and enjoy the day. It's not like the gun goes off and you don't see other people you know at the finish line, like at the end of the day. So it's a celebration, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_05 45:19

That's so odd. And it's in Napa, man. People from all over the world fly over to be in the Napa area. So I mean, and you're gonna get fed? Come on, people, you gotta show up, you gotta show up. This is this is it. This is the event of the year 2026, September 26th. Come on down. Hey, what about sponsors? You are I know last year you had a pretty strong sponsorship. How's that how's that going this year?

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Oh, I I think it is incredible. I have a friend who is helping me get sponsors. We if you go to the website, it is a press it pretty impressive collection of you know mom and pop stores and Napa, small businesses to the big businesses like like Lululemon and Scratch and Sports Basement. And then you go back to Napa, there's Napa Running Company, Athletic Feet. We have shoe companies like Hoka, Mount Coast, Brooks, and then you know the specialty auction that I talked to you about. We even have race companies who donated race entries, multiple race entries, like the Napa Valley Marathon, Aver Viper Running, Napa to Sonoma Wine Country, Wildflower Trayathlons, uh uh virtual races, Norcal Ultra. So if you're a and even bay trail runners, so many and so many race entries that you can instead of okay, I I want to sign up for that race, but it's gonna cost me like several hundred dollars or $150 or something. Right. Well, we're gonna have those tickets available and and you can win it for auction. Win it.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

Or or you can buy it now for because we want all these prices to disappear, right? Yes. Uh I I we our intention is for people to go home with with all of these prices so that we can raise money for the Feu Pair Alliance.

SPEAKER_05 47:22

Hey Jonathan, are the when you say auction items, are those live auction items? Correct. Do you have an auctioneer? I just need to ask that question. Well, no, I I know you're the expert there, dog. Because I'm I'm gonna be extra, I'm gonna auction that stuff off, Jonathan. Don't don't that role. Let me take, let me do it because I love I love auctioning stuff off, man. That that's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

I'll I'll absolutely provide you all the things that we have available, but uh, people can just simply walk up to the tables and see what's on what's available, and then they can put their name there. Either they can buy it now or they can put a prize for certain items, right? Okay, yeah. You know, Doug loves a microphone in front of him. Oh, yeah. I I I've heard it. I I've looked I've looked into it online and said, Oh my god, this guy's a pro.

SPEAKER_05 48:13

Yeah. So we're now we're gonna move into our our song, right, Ted?

SPEAKER_04 48:17

Yeah,

Gratitude As A Daily Practice

SPEAKER_04 48:18

yeah. Yeah, so one thing I want to mention real quick is there there is a tagline that I saw on your website for the your backyard ultra, and it says, be a force for good. That is correct. I I just think uh, you know, your attitude that you can turn something negative into something positive, and you know that's that's the key to anything. Yeah, just that mindset and you're definitely uh being a force for good.

SPEAKER_05 48:55

And and there's a story behind that uh that that quote is uh which is in episode four. You want to go listen to episode four, he tells us and unveils why uh the force for good is special to him. And and you're gonna hear other amazing stories that I mean with his diagnosis of periganglioma when he was doing his Iron Man Kona, he had he was struggling with the lungs filling up and and he you know he was in the swim, the first part of the event in the swim, and thought to himself, I don't know if I'm even gonna get through the swim, but you're gonna have to tune into episode four to find out if he uh finishes the uh the event.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

So, you know, this part of the the show when I pick the music is is really important to me, and it's I try and connect with a guest or what we're talking about on the on the episode. And I think when you were on last time we played today by John Denver, which you know was something that was important to you, just living every day. And I I was out yesterday and I was thinking, and this is a tough one with Jonathan because you know, I just don't know where where to go. And I was listening to songs as I was walking, and actually the difficulty was there were so many that came up that I could use because you know there you're you're a special person. And so I think the one that I came up with is is good because you have have found this. I think you you live this. The song is called Grateful Every Day.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Another day, another day, no more running, no more cheese. Now I don't think that you go. Now I do go on your back on the breadfall every day. No more free five so clean from my heart. I want to take the bread food every day.

SPEAKER_04 51:48

Man, there you go.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

That was a great song. Yeah, Jonathan. Go ahead and you know, we always share it. We asked the guest, and and and I will also comment on as well, but I want to hear your thoughts when you hear those words, when you heard that song. What what came to your mind, what came to your heart?

SPEAKER_02 52:03

It really made me smile, and the um lyrics went to it feels so good just being me, open eyes, and you know, all the beauty. I wake up grateful every day, and you know, I I I think back and I I I do feel so uh grateful, so blessed, and so fortunate to be where I am. And just like your uh friend Ted, I'm gonna borrow what he said, uh, it could be worse. And and I know it will be worse, but I think I can really temper how it comes and and how I react to the losses, the uh the the good and the bad. And uh I I really am grateful that uh you know I get to give so much more at this part of my life with this fundraising, that uh I'm affecting people for the good personally, like the one-on-one things when I talk to an athlete, a runner, a beginner, or even a family member who is going through their own health crisis. And I'm fortunate that I I'm privileged enough that uh I'm in a good place where in I can pick where I want to go and travel and see that, you know, see that country, see that state, and and and enjoy that time with friends. And it's it's just wonderful because you can, like you said, I could be the the guy who's like uh woe is me, right? Right. No, I have choices to make, I I have living to do.

SPEAKER_05 53:49

Love it, love it. You know, Ted, I I was gonna comment, but I don't need to. It was Jonathan, it was well said, it wraps up the show perfectly. And Ted, unless you have any comments.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

No, I just thank you for being coming back and sharing the story and inspiring all of us.

SPEAKER_05 54:07

Yes, and we both look forward to seeing you in person on September 26th, giving you a big hug. I won't squeeze too hard. Thank you. Giving you a big hug and being there mostly to support you and love on your brother and and the people you bring along. And we are excited to be there for JP's Backyard Ultra and Hike. So

Closing Notes And Listener Texts

SPEAKER_05 54:28

come out and see Ted, myself, but most importantly, see Jonathan Pasqual, JP, and support his beautiful cause. And with that said, I'm just gonna sign off and do like I always do and say God bless and peace out. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe, follow, share an episode. If you want to leave a comment, go to the show notes. There's a text link there. We will receive an anonymous text from you with any comments or suggestions. Thanks again for tuning in, and most importantly, keep on coming back.