Like an Antelope
A new podcast exploring the intersection of the Running and Music (Phish) Communities.
Like an Antelope
Episode 8: Scent of a Burro, with Sarah Andress
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
On this episode we meet Sarah Andress, Colorado burro racer and proud member of the Shoes & Brews (https://www.shoesbrews.com), the country's only combination Running Store and Brewery.
Sarah shares the sights, sounds and smells of burro racing in Fairplay, Colorado: home to the famous World Championship Pack Burro Race.
You can go deeper on this episode's information by visiting the Antelope Running Club App (http://www.anteloperunningclub.com), or connecting with other phunky runners on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/anteloperunningclub/) and Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/anteloperunningclub)
Got ideas for the podcast or know someone who would be an exciting guest? Email anteloperunners@gmail.com with suggestions, ideas and feedback.
Music by Luna Hochron (Lun4rEc1ips8)
Hi, and welcome to Like an Antelope, a podcast exploring the intersection of the running community and the fish from Vermont community. I'm your host, Alex Hochrit. And one part of being in a running club that I really enjoy is you get to see so many people start their new running journey. We get to be side by side with people as they encounter their series of firsts. First time at the group run, first 5K race, first PR, first injury, first half marathon, and if they're crazy, maybe even a first bull or first ultra marathon. But what doesn't typically make the new runner bingo card is first borough racing. Today's guest, Sarah Andres, is an annual participant in the Colorado Borough Racing. Borough Racing, which is in fact recognized as the official summer heritage sport in the state of Colorado, was popularized by the fantastic book Running with Church, written by Christopher McDougal, who by the way is the author of Warren to Run, which is a must-read for any. Sarah also works part-time at a running store outside of Bolser and Doubles as a brewery. That seems like another uniquely Colorado thing to me. So today, get your spell by fuel jokes ready as we talk with Sarah about her running journey, Rocky Mountain high perspectives, and her experience racing burrows. So set your gear shift on high and take care of your shoes. And join Sarah and me as we run like an antelope.
SPEAKER_00Hello, how are you, Alex?
SPEAKER_01I'm great. I'm great. Finished work today. Excited to stop talking about work and start talking about running. And speaking of running, many of our listeners actually listen to this podcast while they're on the run. So we like to mimic the two of us going for a run here together on the show. We're not actually running, but imagine that here we are. We come together to go for a little run together after work. And of course, we need to start by warming up. And just like every in-person uh Antelobe Running Club run, we circle up and do introductions where we always share our name, we share where we live, and then we answer a question of the day. So, Sarah, today's question is what's the craziest thing you've ever seen while out on a run?
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, that's a tough one. Um, I live in Boulder, Colorado. We'll just start with the easy part. Um I have run so many places and so many seen so many things, I don't I can't think of anything very crazy. Um one of the weirdest things I ever saw was uh finishing up a trail run in Boulder out on a prairie. I was about to get back to the trailhead, and there was a full upright piano sitting on one of the hills, and somebody was having a photo shoot. I was just kind of dumbfounded. Like, how did you get that up here?
SPEAKER_01That's wild.
SPEAKER_00How about you?
SPEAKER_01Was he like playing as people were running, playing like the Rocky theme song on the grand piano?
SPEAKER_00I don't remember hearing any any music, it was just very odd to see a piano juxtaposed in front of a mountain vista.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a new one. I don't have many uh musical instruments on my on my checklist there. Uh well, I'm Alex. I live in New Orleans, Louisiana. Uh, I think the craziest thing I've seen on a run a few years ago, uh Heather uh Leger and I, we did the Brazos Bend uh Ultra, which is down kind of southwest of Houston. And it's on a like an alligator sanctuary. And so it's where they take alligators from everyone's front yard and they dump them out there uh in in Brazos. And so the race, you're literally running like next to the bayou where you're spotting alligators everywhere. And there were some of these huge, I mean like eight-foot gators just sitting there like five feet away from us. And as we're running, we're like, is one of those gators just gonna like jump up and bite us? But it's a loop course. So we'd like to do 10 miles and you come back, and that same eight-foot gator is in the exact same spot like it had moved in four hours. So then we got a little less scared because we're like, okay, they're not like actually attacking people. Uh, but yeah, Heather counted, I think it was 97 alligators as we ran that race, which gave something fun to do while we're running a 50 miler, right? Is to to count alligators. So well, Sarah, you've clearly run a lot of places and seen a lot of a lot of interesting stuff, but take us back to the beginning. I'd love to hear kind of your running origin story. How did you get started in your running?
SPEAKER_00Uh, I think it was back when I was in college. I just, you know, ended up hanging out with somebody that he was like, let's go on a run. I'm like, oh sure, I do that. I I didn't do that, but it just kind of stuck. Um, and I remember back in the back in those days, literally holding on to uh a walkman that I had created, you know, a special tape to listen to while I was running. So it was a while ago. Um, but yeah, it was it just stuck. I just kept adding distances and trying new races. And yeah, I can't imagine not running.
SPEAKER_01I gotta ask what was on that walkman, what was on that very first tape as you're running along?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I really don't know. I I I can't I cannot remember. It was not fish. I was not, I did not have a lot of fish back then.
SPEAKER_01Well, just like we wanted to hear about your running origin story, tell us your fish origin story. How did you get into the band? If it wasn't to hang out with some college guy, uh what folks got you into the band and what keeps you coming back?
SPEAKER_00Uh well, I bought a live one when it came out because I had heard of this band Fish and was like, well, I need this. And um and I'd heard the live shows were incredible. In my freshman year of college, 1996, they came through Tallahassee, uh, Florida. So I got to see them. And it was in fact the show right before the famous Halloween show where they did the talking heads. So I did get to see them with an additional drummer, and uh it was overwhelming and I didn't quite know what I was seeing. Uh but yeah, I feel like it's just such an experience that you just it it didn't let go. And I just had to keep trying until I got more of it and understood. Um but I I'm a huge music fan too, just in general. So it's just I don't know, it just never stops. Always want to go to the shows.
SPEAKER_01Well, being as you uh live in outside Boulder, and you and I actually first met at a group run, uh a meetup run at the Boulder shows last summer. I gotta ask this big uh fish question Boulder or Dix? Which one do you prefer and why?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm gonna sit on the fence on this one. So Boulder was awesome because I live a mile from the stadium. I walked, which is fantastic. You don't have to worry about a lot of logistics. Um, and I also really enjoyed that I never saw any nitrous, which was made me very happy because that's kind of gross at Dicks.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_00But that being said, I love Dix. Dicks was my first Colorado shows. I've been to 30 or more shows at Dicks. It's like home. So um I'm really excited that we're coming back to Dix, and I'm super excited for it to be back on Labor Day weekend because Labor Day weekend is not Labor Day weekend without fish dicks.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. Uh I I too enjoyed both of them. Uh, I will say I had an incredible, I think a special experience at Boulder being as we got an Airbnb like uh say probably in your neighborhood, like a mile away from the stadium, and to be able to walk there and hang out in Boulder and not have to worry about the party buses and getting an Uber at two in the morning from Dicks in the middle of nowhere. Uh it was a special experience. But we all love Dicks. How could you not love Dicks? Well, now Sarah, we're gonna shift now that we're warmed up a little bit. Let's get in some miles. But of course, we want to start our runs keeping it slow, keeping it steady, uh, what we call sexy pace or slow llama pace. And uh wanted to start by asking, so uh one thing that caught my eye, pretty much every year I see you post in the Antelope Running Club about finishing a borough race in Colorado. We see a lot of races come through. We see a lot of folks, you know, uh setting PRs and doing races all over the country. You're the only one I've ever seen posting about borough race. So would love to hear how did you first get into that? How'd you kind of first discover borough racing?
SPEAKER_00Uh, so I was actually uh in fair play with some of my friends from my running store. And they were, there's a borough days in fair play every year, which is when the world championship of borough racing happens, which I didn't know at the time. Uh, they were actually participating in a llama race, which is a shorter, more fun, costume-oriented, very fun race the day before the borough race. But of course, we were there the next day and we went uh to the borough race and saw it start. And I just couldn't believe my eyes. We're just standing in a small Colorado little town with all these people that have burrows, and they're about to go run on some trails up a mountain. So uh it turned out that one of my friends that was with me for this trip that works with me at uh Shoes and Brews, he has done a bunch of these races. And uh so he invited me out to one of them and I went and I said I have to try this. So that's kind of how it started. I had never heard of it either.
SPEAKER_01So when I was reading uh uh this book, Running with Sherman, that I mentioned, uh one quote I pulled out, they say, first timers either love it and never stop or disappear and never return. So I guess you're the latter, right? You or you're the former. You love it and you never wanted to stop. So, what is it about borough racing that once you tried it, you were like, This is me, I gotta keep doing this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think one of the things is with running, you have to kind of keep reinventing yourself and having a new challenge that isn't just adding miles or getting faster. Uh, because let's face it, I'm getting older, and neither of those things sound very appealing to me. So this adds a whole different element because now you have a teammate. You have something else that is reliant on you, and you're reliant on them, and you're doing this together, and you kind of have to figure out things that maybe you never would have had to figure out. Uh, so it's just a little bit of a complex problem to add to running uh to just give you something else to think about. I I like a challenge, and uh it's challenging and also rewarding and humbling.
SPEAKER_01I I do think it's cool that like you can show up and participate in the world championship right then and there. There's not like there's not this group stage and you don't have to like earn your way up, qualify for it, right? Like if you're willing to do it, if you're crazy enough, you're in the world championship uh right away. Exactly. Well, tell us about a typical course. So so a borough race course, like what's that like? Is there like set distances? It sounds like there's some elevation, or what's the terrain like? Kind of yeah, how how might this compare to like a traditional uh 10K road race kind of event?
SPEAKER_00So definitely gonna be very different from your traditional 10K road race. If you could think more along the lines of a local, like shorter trail race where you're kind of starting in somewhere that's not really a trail, and then you're finding some single track and maybe a forest service road, uh, something similar to that. The distances are very widely spread out, um, from just a couple three or five miles to 10 miles um to the world championship, which is 30 miles for the long course, but that also has a short course.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, so yeah, there it's really you can pick and choose what distance matches whatever you want to do. And it's just mostly in small Colorado mining towns. So they're not huge tourist places, uh, not they're kind of off the beaten path. Maybe you've never been to them in Colorado. Uh, and so a lot of them are a little bit higher elevation and um have have some good mountain roads and trails right out of town. So you'll start in town and you'll end in town, but you'll go and try most of them have some single track and some dirt roads that you're running on.
SPEAKER_01Got it. Are they mostly like an out and back or a loop course? So you're going to the top of a mountain and turning around. Kind of how's all that work?
SPEAKER_00I've done both. I've had both. Uh out and back, and then then some that try to make some loops or lollipops. Um, it varies. And honestly, I don't know a couple of them. Um, the one I did in Buena Vista was a half marathon. I'd never looked at the course. I have no idea where we were. We did a lot of things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, that one was really fun. That one was great. A lot of single track, a lot of um like back forest roads. It was very fun.
SPEAKER_01So if if it are tra are the trails like well marked, are you just kind of following the crowd? Like how if you didn't even look and 13 miles, it's easy to get lost without trying to to keep track of a 600-pound animal, right? So how do you go?
SPEAKER_00Uh well, hopefully you're it's a pack borough race. So hopefully you're in the pack somewhere so you can see ahead of you. Um, but I did just have in the race I did in uh May, I was quite far behind because we had some issues with my borough's pack. And uh when we got into the single track portion, we ended up following some girls into the woods, and that was not where the trail was. And we got a little lost and had to backtrack, and then we saw some other people and were able to find the course. So, no, it's not always very well marked. Um, but again, if you're thinking of those, you know, your more local trail races, uh you're you understand how that goes.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. It it often turns it sounds like, and I've been at some of these races too, where it turns into like a social run, right? It's less of like a race where you're checking your watch to see, oh, my mile splits, and more of just like you find a buddy and and y'all figure it out together, right? And it's you make a wrong turn and it's an adventure. Uh, it sounds more like a type two race than uh than a type one. So how long do these races typically take? So a half marathon, I mean, are are boroughs fast? Like, are you running at an 830 pace, 10 minute pace? Like, how how long might some of these races take?
SPEAKER_00So they it's all over the place. Um, they don't like to run uphill unless you're really encouraging them to run uphill. And I'm not a good uphill runner, so it's a lot of walking. Um, and if you don't get them to go at a fast pace or your pace while they want to run, sometimes they lose interest in running and just will walk the whole thing. So there are people that just slowly are walking along the entire race. Um, and you will not believe how slow a four-legged animal can walk. Um, they can also go very fast, but it that can be you need to be the one guiding them. So it's it's all about finding the balance of when you feel comfortable running, when you're in you know, getting encouraging them to run. Um, it's a difficult balance. A lot of times they take a lot longer than you think they're going to take.
SPEAKER_01Are there cutoffs at these races usually? I mean, like a half marathon might have a four-hour cutoff, but if your borough is just like slowly plotting and stopping to eat flowers, like is it just there before the sun goes down?
SPEAKER_00There are not usually cutoffs. Um, there is a last ass prize.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00So some people take pride in being the last ass. Um, they do the course will usually they'll they'll there's usually somebody on a bike or something trying to make sure they've they're keeping track of whoever's in the at the end because they don't close a lot of the roads for these. You'll just be on part of the road or the cars see you. People, it's really funny. People driving by will be just filming you on their phones, like, what's happening right now? I'm driving by people running with donkeys.
SPEAKER_01And how many people are typically in a run? Like, are we is it a are we talking 20? Are we talking 200?
SPEAKER_00Like how how big is it gonna get? I think I'm very bad at counting, but I think that there's usually between like 50 and 200.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00So they're the most of the ones I did have done, I would say are well over a hundred people. Um, but I don't I don't really know.
SPEAKER_01That's a lot to a lot to keep track of. I'm thinking some kid on a bike trying to be like, oh, who who got lost? 200, especially at the start, going all kinds of different ways and uh getting lining up to get on a single track. That sounds like it could be a lot. Uh sounds sounds chaotic for sure. Well, Sarah, no one question I had. So uh that book running with Sherman is all about the uh uh Chris McDougall's relationship, right? They they adopt uh a kind of an abused donkey and then give him a job and like are training him and working through all these obstacles. Is it the same for you? Do you own some boroughs? Are you training in your borough ranch that that there in downtown Boulder? Or uh if not, but like how do you go about procuring a borough, getting getting one for the race?
SPEAKER_00So, no, I do not own a borough. Uh not yet anymore, but no, I I don't think I'll ever own a borough. That I would need a lot of land for that. Um, but there are um people that have ranches and they own boroughs and they rent them for this. And there is actually a woman, and she she's featured in uh Running with Sherman, Amber Juan. Amber and Brad and their son Ben. I've met all of them. Amber organizes a Colorado Borough Rentals page on Facebook. And once you join, there's a questionnaire that goes out at the beginning of every year, and you basically do it like fish lottery. You're picking what races you want to do, and if you need a donkey, and uh she matches people with their skills and their experience with the with donkeys from several ranches, and uh, and then she'll she'll let you know who she's assigned you to, and uh she does a great job. But they also do have training runs that you can go participate in, um, but they're at the ranches, so depending on how far away from them you are, for me it's a couple of hours, it's very difficult often to make it to one of the training runs. But I mean, I've spoken to a lot of people at races that they regularly go and try to run with the donkey they're going to train with or to run a race with. Um, I've never done that. I've just show up and hope for the best. Um, and I've been pretty fortunate. Um, I've had uh I've had a couple of really tough races, but all the donkeys have been great animals.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna ask if it's like fish lotteries. Sometimes you get lawned and sometimes you get like, you know, the 100s right in the middle. Is the same thing true with with donkeys? Like, are there like these legendary, super fast everyone wants these these three? And then there's other kind of clunkers that you you had bad luck that time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've had all of the experiences. Um, I've had a stall donkey, a donkey that wouldn't run, that we had to DNF. We just had to turn around and go back to the start line and not finish a race because this donkey just would not move. Uh, she was a very stubborn burrow. Um, but I've also had a um a burrow that we did two races together, and by the end of the second race, we had a pretty good rhythm. Uh, he's actually too fast for me now. He's he was a younger donkey, and I don't think I could run with him anymore. Um but it's it I feel like it's not necessarily that specific donkey. It's making sure she doesn't pair you with one that wants to run much faster than you run. Um, and then understanding that you're setting the tone for the donkey. You it's very specific where you run, you stay on their left side. When you're running uphill, you want to be behind them. When you're going downhill, you want to be in front of them. So you're controlling the pace. Um, so it's I've I've liked every every borough that I've rented. I've felt like they were friendly and sweet and kind and wanted to, you know, do their job. Um, and then maybe I failed to express to them what our job really was. So it like that's the humbling part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So how do you how do you how do you like run with them? How do you motivate them? I imagine like they're on a you have like a rope, right, that's attached to their collar or harness, but like how do you send them those signals? How do they like, how do you get them to speed up or slow down or like motivate them to to go over the the that creek or whatever, right? Like how do you Yeah, how how do you you develop that relationship and and have a good running buddy that's a donkey?
SPEAKER_00Uh well, it's very tricky. Um, they are pack animals, so they like to run together. So when they see the other donkeys running, they all want to be running. So the trickiest part is actually the start of a race because you're all just packed into like two city blocks, like waiting for the gun to go off. And then one of them starts going and they all want to take off really fast. So you have to take really close control of your donkey at the beginning to make sure that they don't just take off at a six and a half minute mile pace that you can't keep up with. Um, there is a rope. Um, there's just a rope lead that attaches to their um harness, and then they also have packs, and you're required to have a pickaxe, a shovel, and a pan in the in the pack at all times.
SPEAKER_03I've never had anyone check in case you want to do any prospecting, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, exactly. In case you want to stop and pan for gold. Those are requirements of all the donkey races, so you have to have that in their pack. And uh and yeah, I feel like the first mile is just exhausting. I just end up feeling like I'm having an asthma attack, uh, just trying to get get them if you know what another donkey from their ranch or uh who they like to run with, you can kind of learn that ahead of time when when you're waiting for the race to start and and then stick with that person and then see if that's gonna be a good pace for you. Um but honestly, as soon as as soon as you hit an uphill, it usually starts to separate from the people that are really good at running with donkeys and can run consistently up steep hills, they'll still stay running, but a lot of other ones just stop um and start walking. So walking uphill, I would say I don't think I've ever run with a donkey. I don't, they really just don't want to. Occasionally, one, you know, one or two will run by and they'll all get really excited and start to run a few steps. Um, but mostly it's the downhills that you really have to control them. And if you can keep them running on the flats, then you're doing a great job.
SPEAKER_01How often does a donkey get loose? Like I imagine this chaotic start. Like, do you ever drop the rope or like have the rope pulled out from under you, and now you got loose donkeys running all over the place? Does that ever happen?
SPEAKER_00It does. In fact, it happened to me at my last race. Um, I had a donkey named Jethro, and he was larger than any donkey I've ever run with. He was very sweet, but I I have a feeling he was a little too fast for me. Um, so I was really trying to rein him in at the beginning. Um, but the pack that he had on, his owner had put it on him, but it I he had been eating a lot of grass, and I think that his stomach was a little bloated. And so when they start moving, things shift around and his pack started to go sideways. And I couldn't see that because I was trying to stay in front of him, but somebody told me that. And so I pulled him over to the side of the road uh and he like butted me in the face, and I just let him, I just had to let him go. And then you're just supposed to say loose donkey, and a couple of kind gentlemen ran him down for me and caught him and brought him back to me. Uh, and they helped me fix his pack and we got a little bit more on track. Um, but it's it was very much a community endeavor because I couldn't have handled him by myself at that point because I couldn't fix both fix his pack and keep him. He wanted to run with all the donkeys that were running. Um and so it was it was very stressful. Um, I for the first time I was actually frightened that I was going to get injured by one of these animals because he was so strong. Um, but it uh that's what I let go. I was you know, it's safer to let the donkey go um than to get injured.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. Well, sounds like if uh if anyone's walking across the floor at dicks this summer and hears someone yell, lose donkey, we know who it is. That's a good way to get Sarah's attention for sure. Um one thing too I wanted to ask. I mean, we talked about donkeys going too fast and like getting away from you. Uh I I also know like one thing that really made me laugh in in reading this book was how uh donkeys get freaked out and they freeze. And there's actually a list, and I I grabbed a couple of them because I thought it was so funny, of the things that might freak a burrow out and cause them to just like stop. And they're like tire marks in the road, cracks in the asphalt, a scrap of pink survey tape attached to a tree branch, a curve in the road that's too sunny, a curve in the road that's too shadowy, the color yellow, a cow, like all these things in running with Sherman cause their donkeys to just stop and get freaked out. And I'm like, so, and especially if you're on single track and there's like 200 donkeys in front of you and runners behind you, like, what do you do? How do you get a stuck donkey to get moving?
SPEAKER_00Um it can be very tricky. Most of the time you can convince them to go around it. Um, not always. Um, and they do get spooked by a lot of different things. Um, I definitely have experienced the shadow thing with a tree. Um and um manhole covers, they don't like those very much when you're on the road. But what it's on single track, it's actually easier as long as another, as long as another donkey is coming up behind you, like you can just shove the donkey in front of you. That's kind of one of the hitting them on their hindquarters is kind of kind of a way to get them to move. And then when they see, when one of them sees like a little bit of movement, they'll all start to trot a little bit. Um, so they have a very much packed burrow mentality. They want to keep moving the way they're supposed to move. Um, so that usually will get them out of their little whatever happens that freaks them out. Sometimes you can kind of trick them that way by having just another donkey running by. Um, but that does not always work.
SPEAKER_01Do people ever like get get stuck and like can't motivate the donkey? And like, what do you do? Because if they won't move, how do you even like turn around and go back to the start line? You're just you're stuck.
SPEAKER_00I had that happen to me last year at um the same race I just did in May, I did last year, but I didn't actually finish it. It was a DNF because my donkey went the way they used to have the course. You ran out from out of town past all the donkey trailers, um, and then out onto the course. And my borough got out of town great, we were running great, and as soon as she saw her trailer, she did not want to go another step forward. She wanted to go eat hay. So um we got about another half mile out, and uh we were already we we had gotten onto more of the trail part of the race, and slowly she just stopped moving forward, and another burrow from her uh from her ranch saw her and also decided he didn't want to go anywhere either. And they just decided together that they were not moving forward, and every time another burrow would pass us, they we could get them to move forward a little bit. Uh, but this other gentleman that had this other donkey and I stood for about 45 or 50 minutes trying to get these donkeys to move forward before we finally decided to turn around. And uh as soon as I turned around, she took off running.
SPEAKER_01She was like back to the grass.
SPEAKER_00Yep. She was ready to go back to the trailer. So um I was relieved this year to see that that was no longer part of the course. Um, but that was a really disappointing thing to happen because I felt like I was failing. Um, and I I didn't know I tried everything I knew how to try and couldn't make her um do the race. So I went back this year and managed to finish the race.
SPEAKER_01You have conquered your your burrow fears. What's the uh sorry, what's the what's the scene like? And so I know you said the first time you went and you didn't intend to race, you just wanted to take in like the uh take in the environment and the sights and sounds and and probably smells, right? With all those donkeys. What's the what's the vibe like? Is it similar to like a race vibe or you know an ultra vibe, or is there a different scene there in uh at these borough races?
SPEAKER_00It's a little bit of a different scene because most of them are during like a weekend long celebration in these mining towns where they're celebrating Colorado history. So there's sometimes people that specifically bring their families or really are like I have friends that have said, Oh, I always take my kids to that town for borough days or mining days or whatever to see the race. So you do get a little bit of a mix of people that just want to see, like to spectate, which I don't feel like you always get with regular running. You only get your family or your friends, um, not the general public. Um, but this is such like an interesting um thing that no one, you just don't ever see this or hear about it that uh I think people really cherish it. And so you do get a lot of support from like people that live there and also people that just know that those happen annually. Um and some of the the first one I did was quite small. It was not in a downtown area, it was just off the side of this dirt road, and it was pretty small. Um, but it still had the same feeling, just it's a very small community, it's kind of like fish community, or any everyone who has their little running groups knows like what a community it creates. And you see the same people. Um, like I said, Amber and Brad and their son Ben from the book. Like I have talked to Ben several times, and it I'm just always like feel like I'm talking to a celebrity because he features pretty heavily in the book. So when I figured out who he was, I was like, oh, this is amazing. He's an incredible guy, he's in his 20s, he's great with his burrows. Um, he's so such a sweet kid, just so nice to talk to. And um yeah, it just makes you feel like you're part of this very small, closed community.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's so funny. I mean, if our fish scene can have these micro celebrities and fish influencers, like I guess that's true in the borough racing scene and probably every every small little local scene. Um, but that definitely sounds like a regional specialty. I mean, I I don't know anywhere anywhere else that's that has these special mining day celebrations and borough races, like sounds like a uniquely Colorado thing, but definitely, definitely now on my list. I wouldn't say I ever want to do it before. Uh, but no, I want to check it out. I want to I want to experience all the scenes and try try all the things. Uh well, Sarah, I think now's a good time for us. We're about halfway through today's episode, uh, to take our break. Uh, if folks are out on a run while you're listening, now's a good time to stop that laser game, have a cup of water, catch your breath, maybe take a moment and check and make sure you don't have the scent of a burrow going on, real quick, too. And while we're taking a pause for the cause, now's a good time for a few announcements from the Antelope Running Club. We have exactly one week left in our June. You enjoy my miles challenge. Currently, our 119 runners have logged 1,070 runs for a total of 4,909 miles. Shout out to the nine antelopes who've already reached their goals, especially Miriam Bizap. Uh, Miriam's already 29 miles past her 100-mile goal. And shout out to those antelopes who log the most runs. We in fact have a three-way tie. John Purcell, Joel Schweitzer, and Miriam Biz up have each logged 42 runs in only 25 days. We've got one more week to see who's gonna log the most runs and come out on top. Not that it's a competition, but if you're competitive, log those runs, see who comes out on top. Speaking of uh on top, our top filers, Donnie Ratcher, by the way, Donnie won our last challenge. Uh Donnie has logged 236.4 miles. Donnie got a free solid lead over Jesse Stone, but Jesse's logged 209.9 miles. Our current top female is Jane Jumper with 129.4 miles. Jane's just a few steps ahead of Miriam is up. Miriam's at 129 miles. But whether your goal is to run 500 miles or five miles, we're proud of all of the antelopes getting out there, being healthy, and training for summer tour. We do have a handful of you and Join My Miles stickers left, thanks to our designer Kristen Gates for Kristen's amazing work. You can order these stickers and other gear at Antelope RunningClub.com. Once June is over, our UN Join My Miles challenge ends. We'll be high gearing up for summer tour. We have an amazing team of run hosts. We're planning in-person meetup runs at every fish tour stop this summer. You can check out the details, the exact date, time, and meetup location on Facebook, on Instagram, or through the Analog Running Club app. Click on Club Events to submit your interest form. Uh I myself am really excited for the Dix Rim Job. I think this is the fifth year of the Janet's place at uh at Table, what's it called, Tabletop Mesa in Golden. If you haven't been, if you're coming to Dix and haven't been to the rim job, it is truly one of our favorite events every single year. And shout out to Janet and Spencer for hosting that. Speaking of events, don't miss the weekly Analogue Run Club Runs hosted by Leia B in Denver and the Summer Run series hosted by Lisa Nese on the Jersey Shore. And lastly, a shout out to Sarah Zlever. Sarah last weekend finished a major goal race of hers, Manitose Revenge. Sarah crushed 53 miles and over 15,000 feet of elevation gain in the Catskill Mountain. Sarah, you are a crazy person and we love it. But whatever level of crazy you are, crazy about running, crazy about fish, crazy about burrows, or crazy about life in general, we are here for it.
SPEAKER_02So let's keep running along and learn more about Sarah and All right, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01So we're gonna speed up a bit here as we shift from sexy pace to more of our race pace. Uh I have one more question about the burrow racing. I imagine there's some crazy things that have happened at these races. And so I'd love to hear either things that happened to you or some legendary stories from burrow racing over the years. What are some crazy things that have happened out there with these donkeys on the uh course?
SPEAKER_00Um, well, I've told you a couple of the craziest ones. Um the stalled burrow was very stressful. Um, and the one that I just had that uh the burrows pack was not on properly. Uh we ended up taking about two and a half hours to do six miles. So it did not go well. Um the owner, who was a very um elderly gentleman, um was walking with his donkey and he caught up to us luckily and was able to help me and ended up having to take off the pack three full times and put it back on. Um, it was it was a very strenuous six miles. Um, that was a crazy day. Um, because every time I would get a good rhythm, his pack would start to slide off the side of him. And I'm like, oh, this is not going to work. You cannot run with your pack on sideways. So um it was that was not great. Um, the I think the other really bad one was um the first one that I actually ran my own borough. So technically the second one I participated in, but uh the first one that was my own. Um it was a 10-mile race and it was a literally five miles up a mountain and five miles down a mountain. Uh it was very hot, um, pretty high elevation, um, you know, like 9,000 feet above sea level. So kind of strenuous conditions as it was, as it was. And this burrow, I killed his spirit at some point, and he would not even run down downhill. And the last two miles, I think both took like 25 minutes. It was just outrageously slow. And I was trying to calm myself because I feel like animals can sense when you're angry or upset or stressed. So I was trying to stay calm and not get angry with him at walking so slow, but that was a real lesson in how slow they can actually go. They can go very, very slow. So I think that is the craziest thing that I did not expect uh going into it.
SPEAKER_01Hey, I mean, respect to those burrows. I live in New Orleans, so we are below sea level, and I don't run 9,000 feet in an entire year looking at my Strava. So I too would be walking downhill at a 25-minute pace if you made me do that, no matter what kind of donkey treats you had there for me. Uh uh, so so yeah, respect to the donkeys, and yeah, that's when they're done, they're done. Well, Sarah, we'd love to know love to know more about you and how you spend your time when you're not running with the boroughs. Uh, you mentioned uh a running store you work at, shoes and brews. So we'd love to hear a little bit more about that. Again, uniquely Colorado, running stores here in New Orleans. Uh, you can get beer at the gas station next door, but they definitely don't have it at the running store. So I'd love to hear more about your store.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think shoes and brews may be a one-of-a-kind uh place. Uh I've heard of bike bike places having breweries also, but I've never seen another running store. Uh, we just are about to celebrate 14 years. Um, I've been there for just over seven years. Uh it's a it's a running shoe store and a brewery in the same building. Uh and uh it's a family, local, family-owned business in Longmont, Colorado. Uh, we have 20 taps in our brewery. Uh, about five of them are usually feature our own brew in-house brewed beers. Uh, we're a nano brewery, so just one keg at a time. Uh, and then the rest of the taps just rotate, mostly local Colorado breweries, but not always. Sometimes we branch out.
SPEAKER_01Are there like specific beers for running? Do you have like electrolyte brews or like gel flavor beer?
SPEAKER_00No, but our brewmaster, Roger, does have some pretty special beers that he makes. We have one called Negative Split. That's an IPA. That's one of my favorites. Um, he also has a Macaulay Calkin Sculpin, a grapefruit IPA.
SPEAKER_03Nice.
SPEAKER_00That one is my favorites, his best brew. Um we have a Hefe Bison called Hefia, that's pretty famous around the shoes and brews parts. Um those are probably the biggest ones, but no, we don't have any gel flavored. I'll have to suggest that to Roger. He does make one out of Trick's cereal.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Please don't. I nobody the those goos are disgusting in the first place. And then a beer flavored goo. I don't know what this word is, a beer flavored goo or goo flavored beer, but I don't want it. I don't want any part of either of those. Uh are you involved more in the brewing side or do you work more in the the apparel, the shoes, and the gear side?
SPEAKER_00Uh so I in general am more on the shoe side, but we all do everything. So I work bartending shifts also. Um, and once you've been there as long as I have, you just do whatever they ask you to.
SPEAKER_01Love that. What's the is does the store have a run group? I know a lot of a lot of running stores will have a regular group. Um when uh if people want to join you, what's what are the details on that? When do you meet? How far do you typically go?
SPEAKER_00We do have a Thursday night run club. It's free. Uh it is, I think, at six o'clock every Thursday night at the store in Longmont, Colorado. Um we you do whatever you want. It's along the St. Brain, so it's not it's a paved like trail, not on the street. So people just go out as far as they want to and come back. Uh it's it can be a very large group. I think we usually have around a hundred people.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00Uh so it's a pretty decent, uh well-established social run. I've worked at a lot of running stores, and this is the only one that has had such a large, consistent group of people. Um and yeah, then everybody stays and has a beer, and a lot of times we have vendors out just like every other social run. Um, you know, so raffles and things like that, food trucks sometimes. Uh yeah, it's always a good time.
SPEAKER_01Now, are all hundred people who show up, are they all a hundred fish fans? I mean, my Colorado bias here. I think everyone in Colorado is probably a fish head, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh I wish. There is one. We do have one. One of our uh athletes, Aaron Smith, he's in the uh Antelope Running Club. Shout out to Aaron Smith. He's much faster than I am, but he he's uh A regular and also a fish fan.
SPEAKER_01So I don't know if he could motivate a donkey up a mountain, though. So you you got that going on him. My other uh my other assumption about Colorado is that everyone out there is always training for ultras. Is that true? With most people who are running, like a lot of trail runners, a lot of ultra runners, or uh it is that still only a small, crazy subsection of our running community?
SPEAKER_00I think overall it's still a smaller subsection, um, but definitely more from anywhere else I've ever lived. Um, I started running in Florida and I've lived in Orlando and Tallahassee and Dallas and Austin and here. And this is definitely the largest amount of trail runners I've ever encountered, ever. Um, maybe Austin was a c was second, but a distant second.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah. But no, everybody's not training for an ultra, but a lot of people are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, if I lived in Colorado, I'd definitely be running on trails like living in Louisiana. If you try to run off the road, you're like waist deep in mud five steps in. So, like the the only one trail is a bike trail a couple, maybe like a maybe half hour away, and you get bitten by so many mosquitoes, like within the first five steps, it's just like swarms. It's it's not even worth it. So, yeah, we we got to run on the road, we got to run around the parks here. Um, so I know when I'm in Colorado, I want to run, want to run trails. I don't necessarily want to run up the mountains, but but definitely want to run some trails. Uh well, I I don't know if I uh uh if you're ready for this question, but I'm gonna ask you being as you work in a running store, what are the hot items right now? What are the things that people are most excited about? Is there any gear that's new or knowing like folks are are running kind of rocky terrain or the trails? What are like the the hot items that we might not think of, those of us who don't work in a running store, um, that people are most interested in?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm a little jaded. I've done this for a really long time. I kind of ignore a lot of the hot stuff. Um, and I'm more of a trail runner, so I just stick to what I like. Um, I will say that I think Gooder continuously smashes it out of the park with whatever they make. They have stayed relevant for uh I think I started, I worked in a store starting to sell them about 2017, and they are solidly at events, current coming up with great new designs with their product is great, their customer support is great. Um, and I and people, that is something that it doesn't matter if you're a runner or not. If you come into our store, even if you're just getting a beer, you a lot of people end up buying a pair of gooders. So I would say that that is a hot item. Um, just because they constantly keep it fresh.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And and it's so affordable, right? Like, oh yeah, pair for $25. They've got all kinds of cool designs. And and one thing I love about Goodur, I feel the same way about Garmin, is like I've made so many friends because I see someone wearing gooders. I'm like, hey, you are you a runner? Like you have a Garmin, you must be a runner. You have gooders. Are you a runner? And then like from there, it's so easy to have a conversation about your running journey and races and who you know and where you want to go. And so, yeah, anything that uh uh anything that that kind of gets that going similar to our fish donuts, right? You see someone with a donut, you're like, hey, I think we should be friends. Are we friends? We are now just because they're socks. Well, sir, speaking of fish, so we're not gonna enter the cool down phase of our show uh as folks maybe wrap up their runs. Uh, I love that fast finish idea, but of course, you don't want to just sprint to the end and stop. As we've learned from Nikki, our physical therapist on last episode. We got to do a slow cool down, maybe walk for a few minutes, maybe uh maybe a slower job uh to let your muscles cool down. Want to cool down by looking forward at some of your upcoming goals and your upcoming plans. Uh, and of course, want to talk a little bit about Dicks, but want to hear about your fish plans for the summer. Uh, I'm assuming you're heading to Dicks. What are there other shows you're heading to?
SPEAKER_00Definitely heading to Dicks. Uh, but before that, I am uh taking a little journey over to Savannah to catch the first fish shows ever in Savannah. So, and they're indoor. Pretty excited about that. Um, but that's it. That's all I have. Just Savannah and Dicks. How about you? What do you have on the agenda?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thanks for asking. I've got uh I'm excited actually. Our family living in New Orleans, but grew up in the Northeast, so we always travel to the Northeast in the summer. And it just so happens the week I'm in Maryland seeing my parents, that weekend is Merriweather. So gotta go to those, see all the high school buddies and the old summer camp crowd. And then that next week we're going up to the Hudson Valley with my wife's family. Uh, they live about two hours north of New York City. Just so happens, Fish is playing Madison Square Garden. So I'll take the train down and I'll go uh uh to two days. I think I'm going that Friday and Saturday. Um and uh yeah, my wife didn't really believe me when we did make the plans first, and then they announced the tour. So I was like, I didn't plan our entire vacation around this tour, but it does kind of feel like that. Uh so I got lucky with those, and then of course headed out to Dick's because can't miss Dick's. That's a that's a Labor Day tradition. It's not Labor Day, it's not summer uh without some Colorado time. Uh and a big rumor right now. I don't know if if anyone who's listening has more information, or maybe by the time people listen, it'll already be out. But like 10 people have texted me about fish in New Orleans this fall. A lot of talk about October 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, which for me, like we never get a hometown show. Orange Beach, like three and a half hours away, is the closest they've ever played uh to New Orleans. So fingers.
SPEAKER_00Well, aside from Jazz Fest.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they did play, they played Jazz Fest twice, but even that, I mean, that was like 12 years ago. That's a long time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was a long time ago. That'll be awesome. I love New Orleans, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know that they're gonna sell out the Smoothie King Center. I mean, it's a pretty big, it's a you know, 20,000 seat basketball arena. Um, but uh I would love to be able to take an Uber and sleep in my own bed rather than going all the way to Colorado. So well, how about uh Sarah? Wanted to hear about your running goals. Anything in your future this summer you're training for or fall? I know you did your Ray Borough, your May borough race. Anything on your running calendar that you're excited about?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do have another borough race right after the Savannah shows the following weekend. I have a 10-mile borough race in a part of Colorado I've never been to, so it'll be very interesting. Uh, that's the only other race I have on my agenda. Uh always I'm always in my mind training for an ultra, but not actually committed to it.
SPEAKER_01Have you done an ultra before? Have you ever done any of those super?
SPEAKER_00I have not. I have done two trail marathons, um, but never further than that. So um I signed up for one right when COVID, right before COVID hit, and so it got canceled. And I've struggled ever since to get my mileage back up where I feel comfortable enough to even sign up for one. So uh it's it's on the list. I'm in graduate school too right now, so it's like hard to balance everything. Um, my running definitely takes a hit during class time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. I mean, ultras are, and I my ultra days might be behind me, but I feel like I mean, ultras, it's it's the time more than it is like the the miles, right? It's and and to run ultra like you really have to slow down. Like you're if you're going faster, for me, at least faster than like a 12, 13 minute mile, you're gonna gas out. Like you can't be huffing and puffing for 50 miles or 100 miles. And so uh, but that means the training runs, you're out there for five hours on Saturday and three and a half hours on Sunday, and then eating and recovering and and showering and all that. Like it takes over your entire life to train for an ultrasound. So uh, but they're so fun, they're so worth it. So maybe what about you?
SPEAKER_00What are you what races do you have on the agenda?
SPEAKER_01Oh, friend, right now I'm just racing back to physical therapy.
SPEAKER_00I've been oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I tripped in while running in Mexico and tore my hamstring and actually just found out breaking news, the reason it's taken so long to recover is because I have a slip disc in my back. So I've been like, my hamstring should be healed. I've been doing all the exercises and I still have this pain in my leg. What's going on? I went back to the doctor and he's like, Yeah, it's not your hamstring, hamstrings heal faster than this. And they did a back x-ray, and I got a slip disc. So now brand new approach to physical therapy. But fingers crossed, we figured it out, and I'll be back running in in the weeks rather than months. But yeah, it's been it's been a journey. I mean, enjoy every step. That's what I've been telling people because you never know, right? We're all one trip or one accident away from not being able to do this thing we love. So even when it's rough, even when you're having a bad time, enjoy every step. Well, Sarah, I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna ask you our last question. We ask every single person on this because as runners and as music fans, always looking for new things to listen to. What are some things you listen to while you run? Any music that you found is just the right beat, the right pace, or anything that's new or interesting, what do you typically listen to while you're on the run?
SPEAKER_00Um, I am literally the biggest fish nerd. Um, I listen to the shows in order. And I'm right now in October 2023. I don't listen to anything else. And I yeah, I don't I don't make playlists, I don't discover new music, I don't listen to podcasts, I listen to live fish shows in the order that they happened. And only when I'm running by myself, if I'm running with anyone else or during a race, I don't listen to anything.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So you started like with the very first shows. No, okay.
SPEAKER_00So I was probably started doing this in 2015 or 2016. I can't remember exactly when, but it's been a while.
SPEAKER_01I was like eight years or 10, 10 years, going on 10 years is still really impressive. Uh I thought you were saying you'd listen to every show ever. I'm like, dang, that's a lot. Once you once you catch up though, then you could go backwards and you could start.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah, I've never even every time I think I'm getting close to catching up, something happens and I don't.
SPEAKER_01So have you found a certain like uh a certain part of the show that's best for running? Like are these long drawn out jams set to work really well? Or do you like like a first set poppy, you know, like uh um uh punch you in the eye, right? Speed you up. Are there certain songs or certain parts of the show that better are better for running?
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, it just depends. There's definitely ones that always hit no matter what. Run like an antelope is always gonna get me. Always, no matter what. Uh cavern, I feel like is a pretty good pick you up, like let's get going faster. Uh, and roses are free. Those are three that really always get me going.
SPEAKER_03Nice.
SPEAKER_00Um, but yeah, a long jam, honestly, in the Colorado Trails where you're just kind of enjoying how gorgeous it is, and then there's just this music that you don't really have to focus on, but it's just kind of adding a special element to it. Um, because I don't need to have the music, it's just nice to have that little jammy background going on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I uh I have to be careful actually with some of those cavern and I had a nasty fall a number of years back listening to Llama, fast llama, and I was I was actually training for one of my first ultras. And so I was like running on a trail which I hadn't done very much. And I'm like, you know, you're in a trail, it it's uh the the trees are blocking the sun, it's a little bit cooler, and I'm just like going faster and faster and forgetting like I'm on a trail because llama came on, and I'm like so so amped up that I just tripped right over a root or a rock and fell like flat on my face, skidded down the leaves, and of course had like was all cut up on my legs and arms. And some hikers nearby were like, Oh my god, dude, are you okay? And I was like, Oh, I gotta be careful when llama comes on or some of these faster songs because I get too excited. I need a slow, drawn-out chant. Um but uh awesome. Well, Sarah, good luck with your uh with your all of your endeavors, with your listening to every show in order endeavor with your shoes and brews endeavor, and then absolutely with your borough racing endeavor. Uh, really appreciate you coming on today. Learn so much about a weird little corner of our sport. Uh, but as folks who appreciate weird little corners of the music scene, uh can definitely understand the appeal there. So thank you so much. Appreciate you coming on today.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Thank you, Alex. It's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_01Well, that was really cool. Sarah gave us a glimpse into yet another subculture of our already quirky music and running subculture. And though you may not yet feel the need to climb 9,000 feet and get a burrow on a rope, life's too short to keep running or keep fishing the same way every single time. Take a risk, try something new, live while you're young. And wherever you are, take inspiration from Sarah and feel free to yell who's done anytime you damn well chance. Thanks for listening to this episode of Like an Antelope. We plan to release our next episode in mid-July, smack in the middle of fitches summer tour 2026. But until then, keep your gear shift on high and take care of your ships.