The World Cup Fan Guide Special

The 2026 World Cup is set to be the largest tournament in football history. But what does that actually mean for the travelling fans on the ground?

In this special episode, hosts Katie Cross and Laurence McKenna sit down with Ashley Brown from the Football Supporters' Association (FSA) and Madeleine Orr, Assistant Professor of Sport Ecology at the University of Toronto and author of Warming Up.

Together, they cut through the gloss to look at the brutal realities awaiting supporters heading to North America. From the vast distances and the impossibility of a flight-free tournament, to the extreme heat and logistical hurdles that will define the fan experience, this is the essential guide to understanding what it will truly take to follow your team in 2026.

The team were also joined by TalkSPORT's very own Shebahn Aherne who has an exciting update to share, as well as informing you how you could win a ticket to the end of season FSA Awards.

Make your nature-friendly pledge and back your club today at pledgeball.org.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:16

Welcome to the Fledgeball World Cup 2026 Fan Guide, a World Cup bigger than we've ever seen before. For the first time ever, the FIFA World Cup expands to 48 teams, up from the usual 32, which means more matches, more nations, and even more drama across North America, with games being hosted in the United States, Canada, and Mexico. That also means a brand new format. 12 groups of four teams with the top two in each group, plus the eight best third place teams reaching the knockout rounds. In total, we are looking at 104 matches, making this the biggest World Cup in history. For fans, this World Cup is all about scale. More cities, more traveling supporters, more underdog stories, and more chances for chaos. Whether you're planning a trip, picking your dark horses, or just getting ready for a month of football, we're here to guide you on your way through the highs and lows. So it's time to welcome my guests and of course my co-host, Lawrence. It is very nice to have you back on the pod.

SPEAKER_05 1:17

104 matches doesn't sound like as many matches as it felt like, if that makes sense. But it hundreds doesn't 104 doesn't seem like a lot, but I know it is. But I thought it'd be like, you know, there are there are so many different combinations in my mind of games that 104 actually doesn't seem all that many.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Well, let's ask one of our guests about this in a minute, shall we?

SPEAKER_05 1:38

Because it sounds low, but it is high. That yeah, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Uh so to my guests, uh I'm delighted to welcome Maddie Orr and Ashley Brown to join us today. So I shall ask each of you to introduce yourselves and also maybe give us an idea about why you think you're on the pods today. So, Ashley, would you like to kick off?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, hi yeah. Um, I'm Ashley Brown. I work for the Football Supporters Association. Um, my main role there is actually head of governance and supporter engagement. But I'm here today because uh with one of my colleagues, we run the England Fan Embassy Service. So we'll be traveling out to the World Cup and following England around and supporting fans.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Amazing. Welcome to the pod. Amadi. Yeah, hi from Toronto. So hoping to see some fans here this summer. Um I'm on the pod, I think, because I study climate change and sport full time. And I live in one of the host cities and have lived in other host cities. Um, so very excited to give a bit of an insider view of what's going on on this side of the pond and what you can expect when you get here.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Amazing. So to Lawrence's first question, I guess, Ashley, from your perspective, does this feel like a bigger tournament when you're planning with the fans' embassies, when you've been out there on recis?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Well, I think when you look at the matches, just to put it in perspective, it's because it's compressed, isn't it? So four games a day, how often do you watch four games a day for two or three weeks in a row, right? So all the group sages, there's four games a day. Um, that's difficult if you're in the right time zone. Uh, if you're back home in in England and some of those games at two o'clock in the morning, they're probably not gonna have great audiences. So it's a lot of football, even for the those of us that love football.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

And what does that look like as a fan? Or what do you think it's gonna look like as a fan traveling around following a team out there?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Well, I mean, it's supposedly regionalized to begin with in the group stages, but um, regionalized still means for England fans uh a three and a half hour flight from Dallas to Boston. Um that's unusual. I mean, that that gets an England fan to quite a lot of Europe for an away game as a qualifier. If you're supporting your domestic team, you can drive a fair chunk from one end of England to the other to watch an away game in three and a half hours. So a three and a half hour flight um isn't cheap. Um, it's not really drivable. You could probably just about drive it if you set off after the game and got a few hours' sleep here and there. But that's a bit of a slog driving from Dallas to Boston. Um, so it's reasonized, that helps a little bit to begin with, but after that, you could end up going pretty much anywhere of the host cities. As an England fan, you hope to win the groups, you hope to be able to plan on that basis, but you never know. So that opens up all sorts of possibilities. It's impossible to properly plan what happens after the groups.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

Sorry, so when they say it's regionalized, do they mean uh it's regionalised to the North American continent? Or how do they mean that? Because Dallas and Boston, what region would that be if we were to draw a circle? East Coast is Dallas, is it? Yeah. Okay. Sort of. Uh it just squeezes it. The sort of that because geographically that is that's you know, it's basically the equivalent of flying from one side of Europe to the other, really, isn't it? You're basically flying to Latvia or, you know, Albania or Greece. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. Um yeah. So um and so how how many England fans and how tricky is that? And how many of them you think make the the plane ride? How many make a trained ride, and how many decide they're gonna do a kind of an epic Goonies style road trip?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Um for that for that one, I think most people will fly. Um there just isn't if there's a bit more time between the games, there might be a few people that decide to do an epic road trip and and for a bit of bit of fun. Um, but I think most people will fly. It's and and there isn't a brilliant train service that you could do between those two either.

unknown 6:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

You can get the old greyhound coaches via various places, but none of them are really feasible, and it's a bit of a slog. Um, so I think most people will just get on a plane and fly.

SPEAKER_05 6:21

What does and what does like your support look like during that tour? I feel like the opening scene of um Toy Story mostly, where I kind of go, what does a space ranger actually do? But like what does what does a a person who's providing support for the England fans, apart from kind of you know, um the 7-Elevens that way, what kind of support will you be providing? And you know, what what what's the worst thing that someone can ask you at a tournament uh that you know you you have to help them with?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

So the fan embassy service we've been running since 1998. Um so every single away game since 1998, doesn't matter if it's a friendly or tournament or qualifier, we've uh had a support team out there. Um the embassy service itself it has a physical presence on match day and match day minus one in the host city, so it'll be out on a street at a known location. We produce printed uh guidance um and before we pick up on the sustainability issues of printing something, we have good reason why we print things.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Everybody does this when they're around me. Everybody flags have immediately start to apologize for it.

SPEAKER_05 7:29

I'm sorry, there's so much apologizing when you're around it, it's too much.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

We we we print things for a couple of reasons. The the soft reason is that these things have become uh collectors' items and people love to have them and stick them in their back pocket, and actually the game England's first World Cup game in Dallas will be edition 200. Um, and the second reason, the which is the better reason, is that it's an interaction point. Um, not only do people come and find us to collect them, but also when we go out and about and we're looking around where England fans are, if they see us and they see we've got the three lions, this was what the the guide's called. Um, it gives an opportunity to have a chat with them. And a lot of what we do is about gathering information, disseminating information, and and finding out what's happening on the ground. Um, so the service itself, we will particularly in this tournament, there'll be a lot of travel advice, right? So we provide a lot of travel advice, some of it in advance, but also real time. So we've built connections with various contacts in the host cities that we'll be in. We're also in touch with the UK Football Policing Unit, the local British British Consular Services and the FA, all sharing information to make sure England fans get the most accurate. So it that might be something as simple as there'd be an accident on the motorway or freeway or whatever we're calling them in America, um, and telling people they need to reroute or there's issues with public transport. There's already plenty of issues with public transport, we can come on to that later. Um, and then the actual embassy service will also have a 24-7 hotline throughout the time we're in America. People can phone it, and we will deal with any problems from really simple basic advice about travel um to far more serious issues going up from we'll have lost passports, we always do. Um, so we'll have links into British Consular Services to aid people get their probably get home. Um there are some issues with um passport replacements in America, particularly as you're swapping countries in the tournament. Um, so you might find yourself having to go home if you lose your passport in the wrong place. Um then hospitalization, arrest. Sadly, we've dealt with England fans that have died abroad, and we've had to work with consular services there and also support family and friends. Um, obviously, that is a rarity, luckily. Um, but that's about as serious as it gets. So everything and anything, we will try to help out regular England fans, and we're very well known amongst the regular travelling support.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

And what I mean, this time, what are the things that I guess worry you maybe more than other other tournaments?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Um I think there's uh some concern about the political situation in uh North America and and what that might uh mean and what that might look like um for fans in certain locations. That's a little bit uh different to what we're used to. Uh I mean two World Cups ago we were in Russia, there was a lot of fear about that, and uh in the end it was probably one of the most enjoyable and best run tournaments that I've been to. There was very little issues. Um England fans felt welcome, looked after, and supported, and everything pretty much worked, even though you were travelling around a pretty vast country. Um I think there's some people that are a little bit worried about the current situation in the US Um and uh how football will be policed, um, and whether it will be policed with uh the typical light and soft touch that has been successful uh in other countries uh when England fans travel.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Just as a follow-up question, I can see uh sorry, Lawrence, go for that.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Well, it's just more uh how much knowledge you share with other fan associations as well, and how much you're in contact with other people at the tournament. Because I think obviously a lot of people just think, well, you're dealing with England fans, deal with England fans. But I guess the more knowledge sharing you can do with other people based in similar cities, and do you all find yourself cognizant of the same things? And with the I guess an inverted commas, not to get too political, but political situation around a lot of this, what kind of advice are you giving to people and what kind of things are you hearing from other international fan bases?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah, so um through Football Supporters Europe, we're linked in with fan reps from pretty much all of the UAF nations that are traveling to the World Cup. Um we already use the classic uh WhatsApp groups, um, and we've got them set up for each of the key cities so that fans can share experiences if they play there before you do. Um, we have some American support football supporter representatives in each of those host cities that are also providing advice to those groups as well. We don't have a great reach outside of Europe, so we don't really get much interaction with, say, the Latin American teams or the Asian teams, etc. Um, I think they tend to be set up in a slightly different way. They don't really have the representation that we have across across Europe. So there's lots of information sharing. Um, we all get to meet up as well at various conference events that happen throughout the times, uh throughout the year. So um a lot of us know each other, um, and it's a really useful way to keep on track of what's happening across the country. Is it mad that my biggest fear is dehydration?

SPEAKER_05 13:43

Is that a crazy?

SPEAKER_04 13:45

I'm actually gonna go into to Maddy here because I could see her shaking her head as uh well, one when the when the reg when you touched upon the point about the regular policing, but also I imagine that well, I know from reading your book as well that there will be other concerns that you have as well from a fan experience perspective.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Yeah, I think um you need to come into this World Cup excited but sober-eyed about what could what you could see. I don't I'm not, to be honest, worried about England fans. I'm worried that England fans are gonna see some stuff happening um that might look a little ridiculous to our eyes. Uh, I lived in England for years. I'm kind of familiar it, it this is not the policing you're used to at a match. And, you know, we saw with the Club World Cup last year, um, there were riots in LA. Like that's it could go a little sideways. And I think it's just important to keep in mind that it might not be targeted at you as an England fan, although that's entirely possible, but just keep your wits about you. Um, and kind of be aware that other fans might have a slightly different experience. And particularly in the US context, if you're a person who isn't white presenting, that's something to just bear in mind. Um, just a bit of a safety precaution. Uh, and that's not to say it won't be totally fun. It will, and not to say that, you know, it there's not um so much excitement to be had. We just gotta be really clear-eyed about what what is going on on the streets, what's going on around it. Um, this is a heavily policed country and a place where, especially in the US, less so Canada, Mexico. However, I will emphasize security contracts, particularly for like air surveillance and you know what's going on at airports, like a lot of that is coordinated between all three. So even if like the Canadians didn't want to do it, they're gonna have to do it. Um, it'll be tight. So just be ready for that. Like expect it to take extra long to get to and from places, expect to see people with big machine guns. Um, that that will be part of it. And and expect to see a few people getting a hard time. Just, you know, the best thing to do to support that if you see, like support people experiencing that if you see it, um, is to not amplify. Don't amplify, don't worsen it, don't yell at police officers. You can kind of step back and and film it if you would like to, if you see something like that happen, but um stay out is my advice.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

And to Lawrence's point about dehydration as well.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, this is a thing. So every city has a different plan for heat. Um, none except oh well, one has been released. So there will be um, you do have to come in pre-hydrated. And by that I mean drink your water the night before, drink it the day the day of and enjoy your beer. Absolutely. That's part of the experience. Just remember that will dehydrate you. And we're talking about hot, hot weather. So um just yeah, stay hydrated ahead of time. Don't go in dehydrated. That's the worst thing you can do when people forget because they think, oh, I'll get a water when I get there. I'm a bit thirsty, but it's fine. Once you're thirsty, you need water right now. So yeah, I would just say pre-hydrate, prepare your body ahead of time so that when you go and have a drink, it's not a problem and you're gonna have a great time.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And D Ron's We've raised I was gonna say, Katie, we've raised this with certainly the key cities that England will play in and have been assured that there will be uh hydration state stations certainly outside the stadium, so where people are queuing, um, and also sun cream as well. Um sprits don't fare quite as well in the sun as they as we think we do, um, particularly in the sun that they might be confronted with in Dallas, for example, or Mexico City. So we've been assured that it'll be free sun cream, um, free hydration stations. That that that starts to get a bit more questionable about in the stadium when you ask about access to free water in the stadium. They're not quite so clear about that. I think you might find you're paying quite a lot of money for a water in the stadium. But outside, and let's face it, it's not a case of just turning up in an air-conditioned train or bus next to the stadium entrance and walking in. You may well have a mile, two miles even walk in the heat and then a queue, and then all of the security checks. So you could be outside in very hot weather for a chunk of time.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

I'll also say there are, yeah, the free water and free sun cream very likely takes you out of your queue to go get it. Um, and you won't get to just pop right back in where you were. So just keep that in mind. We keep ready. Yeah. We're aggressive about it, which might not help. And I'm not saying like bring a reusable water bottle. No, there are, oh, there's boxed water in the states and Canada and US now. Like that would be the alternative. But yeah, I would say like bring your own water with you and get ready to kind of toss it once you get close to the front of that queue. Um, because you will almost necessarily leave the queue to go and and um take advantage of those resources.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

What does what does a summer tournament look like in the US? Because you know, we're talking about heat here, but I I don't know what this heat is like.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Yeah, okay. So depending on where you are, we could be talking about a place like Miami that can hit um summertime highs of 3940 with high humidity, uh 80% or higher. Um, these are conditions that we see every single year kids dying on football fields of heat exhaustion and heat stroke. It's it's a lot. It's oppressive. Um, and to give you an idea of like the best solutions that exist right now, if you can imagine like an eight foot-tall fan, like not like a person, like a fan that like blows air. Right? Yeah. If you can imagine like one of these, and they the company is literally called big ass fans. Like that's what they're gonna station all around everywhere to try to kind of alleviate some of this. Some of them will be missed in as well. So they they know how to do this. I mean, baseball happens outside all summer. Um, you know, preseason American football, which like it is just a whole phenomenon unto itself. Um, these venues know how to do this. It's just they're not used to doing it in July, which is the worst time, weather-wise.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

The other thing to keep in mind is that the hot weather brings with it everything else. So if you're in the west, we're looking at wildfires, we're looking at smoke that could impact kind of the whole continent. We've seen that happen. If you're in the east or the south, we're talking about storms. Um, the Atlantic is okay temperature-wise, right now. It's it's a little on the warm side. So we could be seeing storms that disrupt things. We saw that with Club World Cup. And so just be ready to roll with the punches if you get some weird weather um and then just kind of you have to just make it fun in those, in those cases.

SPEAKER_05 20:56

So just as a question, when does the fun when does the fun start during this tournament? Because the moment this sounds like kind of a uh, you know, a hunger game style, um, you know, make it from one side to the other. I grew up obviously absolutely uh, you know, idolizing the NBA players and everyone else who's in America. So I, you know, I think I've got a lot of nostalgia. I'm not quite old enough to remember the 94 World Cup, but you know, people made it through then. How different is this World Cup from 1994, despite the fact that it'll, you know, outside of it being HD?

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Yeah. So um temperatures are a couple degrees on average higher. And the way to think about that in each place, the way to think about that is not that each day is a couple degrees higher. It's that you're you're very liable to get a heat wave in that time that will be eight, nine, ten degrees higher. And that raises the average overall by one to two, right? So when we talk about increased temperatures, usually we're talking about extreme conditions that boost the average. And that's what I'm worried about. So I think you're gonna get plenty of days in this tournament that are perfect, like awesome conditions, so much fun, 27 degrees or 25 degrees, sunny, beautiful, memorable. And then, but we could hit a a range of a few days where it's 35 to 38, it's humid, it's uncomfortable. Um, and to Ashley's point earlier, four games in a day doesn't leave any rigging room, really. Like there's not a ton of time to move things around. Certainly we can't reschedule to a different day in most cases because of the schedule. So we are looking at delays as our best option. And FIFA to date has changed some things to take care of the players. They haven't done much for fans or officials or anybody else in these facilities. So it's really up to the fans to take care of themselves and be proactive about it.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Do you think just I mean, out of interest, every city that we visited, we had discussions about weather. I don't think I've ever had discussions about weather. You're English, of course you have. Well, yeah, not I have a discussion about weather, but not in relation to traveling England fans. Okay, sorry, I was just checking okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:16

Yeah, I was just saying it's ridiculous. You're from England. This is the this is the first thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Um so in relation to trying to suss out uh information for traveling England fans, being confronted with discussions about weather is not common because it's just a case of we put up with whatever weather we're confronted with. Um in Dallas, for example, we asked the people what it was really like because they were talking about it getting unbearable. They said, Well, we don't really know because we all leave Dallas in the middle of the summer and go live somewhere else because it's too hot. Um, from a game perspective, Dallas is okay because it's got a roof and it's got air conditioning. So if you speak to them there, they're they're not that they still have um plans for storms if it happens when everyone's queuing up on what to do if the lightning comes through and told us about how it happens quickly. There might be ideas that there's a possibility of storms, but knowing it's gonna hit or not, that's last minute. And so they talk about what they'll have to do because it's pretty fierce storms.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Um what will they have to do?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Um, basically there's areas from which you are told to relocate. Um so we you know we are so they s told us in Dallas that that's that's okay about the stadium. You don't have to worry once you're in the stadium unless it's tornadoes, then we have a tornado plan.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

Sorry, this just sounds all of this is just ridiculous. You'll be fine. No, all of them there's tornadoes.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah, I mean it's tiny chances, right? It's tiny chances, but the good thing is that they that they have a plan, all right? They they acknowledge it's a possibility. Um, so I think you know, we we'll find a storm somewhere or other. I'm sure we'll see a bit of rain and a bit of lightning, and you'll have to deal, we'll have to deal with that at one of the games. Um, Boston and New York, England's other two group games are both open-air stadiums. Pretty direct sunlight, basically, just shining on the fancy. Sunlight, rain, whatever happens, yeah. Whatever gets thrown at you, you get thrown at you.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

Uh will there be like ponchos provided? Because when I went to an NFL game, for instance, that was, you know, a keep take that I I don't still have it, but you know, you go home, you're like, oh, I've got this great poncho. Is that kind of thing gonna be is there gonna be any like fans or anything provided to the fans?

SPEAKER_01 25:21

I doubt FIFA will pay for ponchos.

SPEAKER_05 25:24

I mean, especially not after his photo in the poncho that didn't ex it wasn't complimentary of him, was it? Yeah. I suppose, yeah. But it it to me sorry guys, I hadn't really considered any of this before this podcast. Like I sort of thought this was all as read. Um again, I'm just gonna ask the question: where does the fun start in the tournament? Because it like it just anyone just throw something out.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

If if I had to give you a number based on the research we've done, is that if you're looking at, you know, a few games in the group stage and hopefully you're making it out of the group stage and you've got kind of a few games past that, you should expect that one and three or one and four will have something. So you're still going to have amazing experiences, games. Um, it's you're still gonna get that kind of picture perfect blue sky day with everybody in the stand. Like you're you're still you will get that. Um there just might be kind of at some point a bit of a rain delay. Uh, it could be uncomfortable if you're and the big thing here is like if you personally are not ready, there's so much you can do here to be ready for inclement weather, right? Like, don't wear your fanciest shoes. Like, to I don't know, right? Like this is not Ashley, it's not rocket science. Living in England, you know how to deal with rain. It's not a big deal. You just kind of sit through it. Um, the venues all are so for kind of the really weird stuff that could happen. Um, the city officials take over alongside state officials, and they've got really robust plans for emergency scenarios. So the tornado that Ashley was talking about, or like a hurricane, like those systems will flip into place real fast. And none of these places are strangers to hurricanes, like the ones that could face it. They know what to do, they know how to handle it. Um, generally, with a hurricane, you have 48 hours notice ahead as well. So you'll know it's a possibility and you will know what to do if that happens. Um, so yeah, it's just kind of be aware. Like, you know, like with policing, with the weather, be aware of of your what you're doing, you know, keep your head on straight, but go and have fun. Like, you know, drink your water when you wake up in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Yeah, pre-drinking slightly. I think Maddie sort of I think Maddie hits on the the key point which our advice boils down to in these situations, which is to England fans, you should do what you're told. Because they have plans to deal with this stuff. So if someone tells you go and do go and go and hide there, go to this place, go and do this, just do it. Um, England fans are pretty robust. Football fans in general are pretty robust. Um, you know, they're they're in general, they're used to a bit of weather, they'll deal with it. Um, but yeah, there is the possibility of some extremes, as Maddie's explained.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Are you looking forward to going out there, Ashley?

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Um, yeah, overall, right? Um, it's um I'm lucky, right? It's my job when I get to go to a World Cup, I can't complain. But it's not the tournament that I've been most excited about.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Um That was more convincing.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Logistically, it's very difficult for us. Um, and it's gonna be there's gonna be quite a bit of work, quite a lot of travelling, um, and we're expecting a few stress points to deal with.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

Is that another aspect of this is kind of I think a lot of people aren't, you know, it it seems like a lot of fun, and I, you know, I love the idea of an adventure across America, that would be a great thing to do. But a three and a half hour flight is also quite a lot of stress for most people when they have to make it by a certain deadline, when they are stress going through the gates and all these kind of things, and then you're mixing that with a lot of different fans that are all doing the same experience. Is that kind of a I guess a concern for you guys?

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Um not so much in those early stages, like you know, you just get on and you get on do it, but the difficulty becomes in the later in the later stage, right, where you don't know where you're going. So in at certain point in that group stage, it might be the 90th minute of the last game, you know whether you're going home or which of you might know which of two cities, but you finish third, you might not even know at that point which city you're going to. You've then got to plan how to get there, find somewhere to stay. Um, and that's that's when it becomes stressful um for people.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Do you have that?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

And this will be a constant. I mean, we get we'll you know, we don't go and book people travel, right? But you're not a travel agent. People will um be coming and talking about it. It'll be one of the topics from from day one, and actually, day one for us is before the World Cup starts, because England have two two friendlies in Florida, which a lot of fans are going to as well. So it'll be a constant topic of discussion. And and you know, fans have shown incredible amounts of ingenious approaches to traveling around not just tournaments but to uh away games to save money, um, flying to different places, hiring buses. And this stuff's already underway, you know, and but in particular in some of the North American cities where we're playing, and the public transport prices have been inflated to ridiculous amounts. England fans are already starting to look at uh hiring their own buses, getting in and out of the stadiums, saving money in that way, um, which is a real shame. I mean, that's one of the biggest disappointments of this tournament is the commercialisation of it is beyond anything we've ever seen before in international football. And is that the case?

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Okay, and what way from FIFA or sorry, go on, Lawrence.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Well, I just uh same question. I'll just give you I mean, two examples, right? You know, Boston, England are playing in Boston. Well, except it's 25 miles out of Boston that England are playing, they're not playing in Boston at all. Um there is a train that runs there typically on a match day, but this is not the sort of train that you would expect to see coping with standard huge stadium traffic, right? It's a halt. I mean what we would call a halt, maybe, right? Similar to what you might have at the Coventry Arena if you've been there, their little their little station. Not really a station to go next to a football football ground. Because most of the Americans don't use it. They'll go in their their the cars and their trucks and they'll tailgate. Um now you can get that train. It would normally cost you like nine or ten dollars return for a for a Patriots game is gonna be eighty. So you think, well, okay, well, I'll drive my car. Okay, well you can park for two hundred dollars near the stadium. Uh all right, well, I'll just get normal public transport if there isn't any. Right? So you oh well I'll park somewhere else near the stadium, there isn't anywhere. So you're hiking. So you start. You you look at New York. We're not playing New York, actually, we're playing New Jersey at Medlands. You can get uh you get typically you get the train out of Penn Station, you change it to Caucus, or if you're coming from New Jersey, you change it to Caucus, you go there. That's normally $15 return on a match day. No, is it $12 return on a match day? $150.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

$150 return. And again, so you look at alternatives. Oh, well, parking space there, $225. Park somewhere else, there isn't anywhere else.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Does FIFA normally have on this? You know, why why this year are these prices so inflated when you know in Russia and Qatar, why was it not regular? Why was it not inflated to this degree there?

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Um I and I mean obviously there's um there's an influence from the way that FIFA operates now. Um you also have to take some responsibility for in the local organizing committee and the local cities and the transport system. So, for example, some of the other American cities now have announced um free transport for for match ticket holders, which is what we would normally expect at a tournament. It's what we've seen at the last few tournaments, both UAFA tournaments and FIFA tournaments. So it's not everywhere in America. And then you look at Mexico City, have you ever tried have you ever been to Mexico City, just try and get anywhere. We we went we went to visit the stadium, and I think it took us an hour and a half in a car to go like four miles to the stadium. Um, and uh the public transport options weren't properly operational at that time, nor was the stadium finished being built either, but hopefully that's a problem we'll overcome.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

This is pretty typical though. Like I think so. One of the things when I was living in England that floored me was that the the prices weren't jacked up for big events in North America, that's very typical. So we anticipate when we go to a match, whether it's basketball, football, you know, baseball, whatever, that everything around that is gonna be more expensive for the event. And then we all kind of like when FIFA when it was announced it was gonna come here, for the first thing everyone said is how, because it's a big tournament and there's a lot of um transport infrastructure that does not exist, that should exist. So we were hoping maybe that would uh speed that up. It didn't anywhere. Um, and so most of the cities had original agreements that it would be so in the contracts, which are confidential but have been now leaked to many journalists. Um it was in that it was contractually agreed that they would have free public transport. That's been walked back in almost every case, so there's a couple exceptions, but now it's free public transport for volunteers and staff of FIFA, and that's it. Um so fans are on their own. And I think there's, yeah, a lot of locals are like, yeah, what did you expect? Because this is pretty standard around here.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

What about um Do you think there will be another tournament like this? Will this be repeated, this kind of model?

SPEAKER_03 35:42

You know, when, well, yes, we're gonna see, not like this, but um LA is gonna have the same issues with uh the Olympics in two summers. Um you know, they originally said it would be a car free games. That's comical as a suggestion in that city. And and we're it's the same everywhere. Like these are big car cities. Um, they expect you to drive your car. There is ample parking for a hefty fee. And that's how they expect people to get from point A to point B. So everything else is the secondary option in their minds, them being kind of the organizers, because that's how these cities operate. It's how they've always operated. It's a shame, but that's how it works.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

Can I just ask then? So do uh this might not be a question that anyone knows the answer to. Who gets the parking fee? Like, is it the local uh authorities? FIFA. FIFA. FIFA FIFA, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:32

So FIFA bought out they bought out all the parking rights.

SPEAKER_05 36:35

And then they raise the prices themselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:39

Yes. Oh wow, so it's not even just normally what happens.

SPEAKER_05 36:42

It's not local saying, hey, this is a big event, I can capitalize. This is FIFA themselves saying you're coming to our event and we're gonna charge you unheard of prices, basically.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

For ever for everything. For everything. So you have to imagine, and before we started the podcast, I was kind of saying this briefly, but you have to imagine when you have a FIFA World Cup that you've got a venue and it's got all its partners and all its suppliers and all of its parking and transit and all the things. You dump everything out of it and it's just a shell, and FIFA comes in and puts all its own things in and around it. Um, so all the signage gets swapped out. The parking goes to FIFA, the transit agreements are with FIFA, everything is with FIFA. FIFA then puts teams in each city or in each region. So, like the, you know, Vancouver and Toronto share one FIFA Canada office, and they are the ones setting prices and agreeing all of these terms and then what goes into the venues and around them.

SPEAKER_05 37:37

And will they be Canadians? Will they be Canadian natives or would they be people who come from the majority of the people in that office are Canadian natives, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

And then there's a there's yeah, and then there would be there's an office in Miami that's taking care of the vast majority of the U.S. I think there's one or two satellite offices as well in other cities. New York's got one because they've got the final. Um, and then Mexico City has the Mexico office, and then each city has a local organizing office, and they are the ones kind of negotiating with FIFA to try to keep this reasonable, ensure that it's possible for tourists to kind of do things because they represent the city and the city wants tourism revenue. And when FIFA controls everything about the venue itself, that gets really, really tricky.

SPEAKER_05 38:20

Right. And I guess and I guess it kind of discourages people from going because people will go, well, if I can't afford to go to the game, why would I go to the tournament or whatever? Actually, I'm I'm assuming and I guess Maddie as well. I'm assuming you've met these people.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:35

I've met some of them, yeah. Do they seem like the I mean, you know, I'm not asking for any, you know, Dave in the office is not a good guy, but like, are we having passive aggressive meetings with like what's the tone of the way that these prices are being set? Is it kind of it's just the way it is? Or is it like uh yeah, we know this is high, or like where's the where's this being come from, if that makes sense? Because those people in the office surely know as normal people on normal wages, that's not gonna be something that's possible for normal.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

I would say that in in our recent discussions, I would say that people were typically embarrassed to tell us.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

So it's not a hostile relationship, but it isn't also an easy relationship.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

No, I mean, for example, when we were told about the Boston train, the New York one wasn't known about when we were there. We were told about the Boston one when we were there, that was before it was public. And you know, we said, well, the England fans won't pay it.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

And they well, you know, they'll have to pay it. There'll be ticket people. I'm like, well Good luck. Well, let's see, let's see what happens, right? If if if two or three hundred England fans turn up at a station without having bought an $80 ticket and the game kicks off in two hours and they want to get there, let's see how that pans out. Perhaps not well.

SPEAKER_05 39:51

I can see like an Italian job style sort of thing going on, just a bunch of minis kind of, you know, uh in a in a convoy.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah, along those lines. Uh but actually, like, you know, the the I mean you joke about that, but this the Scots, for example, have hired a load of the yellow school buses. They're all turning up to the Boston Foxborough Stadium. Um, a lot of them coming from Providence, actually, because it's cheaper to stay down there uh in a big convoy of the yellow school buses.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

That makes sense because you just add the red and then you've got the tartan. That makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

I think it's also this is where I would caution fans, um those train tickets that don't get paid for, this is where I expect the big police presence, not at the stadium. Right. So just be aware of that. Like, don't expect that that big police presence is happening at the stadium. That's not how the Americans like to roll. Like, yes, they will be there, um, but they will be at every step along the way. So just anticipate. And the big thing there is give yourself time. Nothing is going to run on time. There will be crazy traffic. It is not as well organized as it should be. Uh just be ready for that.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

And Maddie, Maddie, you're absolutely right. But I and I and I think but the key point here is, and this is what we tell people, these points these are unnecessary points of escalation where things go wrong at major tournaments. Because people might turn up to a to a station three hours before kickoff and expect that to be fine, and all of a sudden, two hours later, they're still finding themselves there, the clock's ticking, no one's giving them proper advice, they're being confronted with inflated ticket prices, they don't know if they're gonna make it, and that's when things get out of hand. And if things are properly managed, ran, sensibly priced, all of these things can be evolved avoided. Fans will get to the stadiums on time if they can in a reasonable way.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

So just going back to the travel thing as well, because I I hadn't realized that it was FIFA who were making money from this.

SPEAKER_05 42:01

Can we just have a breather for a second?

SPEAKER_04 42:02

But also FIFA have a sustainability plan. They have like a green card, and and obviously, you know, the biggest contributor to a match day emissions is fan travel, and yet they're making it incredibly difficult for fans to travel sustainably. So, I mean, from your sports ecology head, Maddie, what is your view on this?

SPEAKER_05 42:27

Can I ask, Katie, when you say incredibly difficult, do you mean impossible? Because like that there's a there's not there's like a really fine line there, but what from what Ashley's saying about being able to get 25 miles, you know, like I joked about hiking. Like, no one's gonna be able to do that. There isn't a sustainable, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

No, you you can't. You can't walk along the highways and all the places. Like, right. Um look, uh everyone who knows me will know that I'm not FIFA's biggest fan from a sustainable, like you can't be as a sporticologist. Um there's I know that some of the people in sustainability roles have been beating their heads against walls for years on these topics. And unfortunately, money wins when it comes to these conversations within FIFA. If they think there's money to be made with having people buy an $80 ticket, they're gonna do it. That's the version they're going with. Um, sustainability be damned. So the the best advice I have for everyone is just be prepared. Do not plan to wing it. Don't wing it. Do not plan to just rock up at a train station and get a ticket day of. They may run out of train tickets. Be aware of that as well. There are not enough trains. So if you know you're going to a certain match, and you obviously can't do this like for past the group stages, but group stages at least, if you know you're going, plan now. Go online as soon as you hear this podcast and get your train ticket and then show up extra early at the station to take that train because the last thing you need. Is to get there and discover they've oversold this train or there is no other option or there's crazy lines. They might have security at train stations as well as at the venue. Just be prepared for all these things and bring a boxed, not bottled, water with you when you go and put sunscreen on before you go and just be ready. I think a lot of the worst case scenarios can be avoided if you prepare for it. But do not win it.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

There's one dynamic that we haven't covered on this, particularly relevant for Boston. Actually, when it comes down to it, most fans can't afford to stay in Boston.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

So they gotta stay somewhere else. But there's no public transport from anywhere else to where the stadium is. So you then probably still gotta find your way into Boston to get back out of Boston to get down to Foxboro. So it's not as simple as us complaining about oh, it's expensive to get from Boston to Foxborough. Most people won't be in Boston. You want to stay in Boston, you $500, $600 a night for what you'd be a nor normally be a like a $200 hotel. Um so on the more positive side, something like that. Dallas is okay, ATT Stadium, despite the heat. Their transport from where people will be staying is reasonable.

SPEAKER_05 45:20

It's one of the better ones. I know this sounds bad, Ashley, but I mean, you know, um England fans in the media have re um a reputation, shall we say, but I think multiple fan groups have reputations, right? And I, you know, I don't want to play into stereotypes of England fans. I've been to many England games myself and absolutely loved it. I'm not a travelling England fan though. Is there at all a concern around putting rival sets of fans in some of these situations, trying to get to a stadium with um, you know, increased tension? You know, say England do play a close rival, um, and I'm not expecting you to be diplomatic in any way, but have you guys discussed those possibilities and do you discuss those kind of things? And what's your messaging on that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Um yeah, those we always discuss those things, but in reality, England's um recent history at tournaments is actually pretty impeccable when it comes to any type of disorder. Um rivals. Um a lot of the sort of common foes that the the press would like to um highlight, particularly the European ones, that doesn't really exist at tournaments, it's far more likely to be banter. Um I think that the bigger concerns for disorder at this tournament um would be um a conflict with authorities. Um and then potentially, um depending on how many if they're allowed to travel or not, some of the South American traveling support for a tournament that theoretically so close. Um they travel with some more problematic fans potentially. Um so that could be an issue, but I don't think you um are likely to see the sort of scenes that some of the press in this country would like to show of like uh European fans throwing chairs at each other.

SPEAKER_05 47:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Um that doesn't really happen. I think you might be looking at different types of confrontation. But I guess one of the things that you may you you hinted at, Lawrence, which might be relevant, is that if these sets of fans happen to be in pressurized situations, the sort that I talked about, where frustrations are growing about getting to a match on time, etc., then of course there's always a possibility that things might flare up.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:01

I want to ask another question of Maddy before I know she has to jump. I'm sorry. It's a really minor question. And I actually I just want to carry on with this pod because there's a few questions I had for Maddie. One which was like, how you know if you're getting heat straight, but we'll brush over that one. Because really, what I want to know, Maddie, is particularly with your climate hat on, because you do a huge amount of work around how climate change is shaping sport. What do future World Cups look like? How long do they continue in this vein? What are we likely to see, do you think?

SPEAKER_03 48:34

Uh, the pragmatist in me says that we're gonna continue to see these big, crazy, multicontinental extravaganzas that are not sustainable at all. Um, what I would love to see would be something a little more compact. So I have no problem with a couple of countries sharing the World Cup, I think, actually, from a financial standpoint, makes a lot of sense, especially if it's like Spain, Portugal or you know, Belgium, Netherlands. You know, tight together, um, kind of smaller footprint, great train access everywhere. This version is obviously a no-go unless we change some things. The next one, also a problem. Saudi, also a problem for a whole different suite of reasons. Obviously, a lot of um construction has to go on. Um, but in terms of the fan transport, once you're on the ground, it'll be much better because they're able to kind of uh specially design it to be better. Whereas we're retrofitting everything in North America and a retrofit's hard. Um, and I'll answer that heat stroke one because I think you might run into some fans that'll experience this. Uh if you have, so you're you're thinking about nausea and headache and profuse sweating and cramping, you get two of the four and we're starting to worry about it. So if it's just you have a bit of a headache, you maybe you're drunk or hungover, maybe um you're you know a bit dehydrated, I would say go get water. Uh if it's, you know, profuse sweating because it's really hot out, good, your body's working correctly. Um, when you start to get these things happening and co-occurring, that's when we start to say, cool your body down, right? Doesn't have to be fancy, can be as simple as pouring some water on a cloth and putting it around your neck or putting it on your forehead. Um, that goes a long way, but you you are gonna want to get out of the sun at that point. So find some shade, find a way to cool your body down.

SPEAKER_05 50:23

Before we lose Maddy, can I ask one question about uh air travel? Because um, you know, I've I've flown in and out of the states a couple of times. Sometimes it's a really pleasant experience, sometimes less so. There's obviously gonna be increased it. I'm guessing there are increased amounts of flights, or are we just piling more people onto the same flights that exist? And how many more flights are there? Do you know anything around that kind of infrastructure?

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Yeah, there are more flights. So they are um kind of changing some of the flight patterns that is happening at airports are overwhelmed. Um again, here, same advice. Plan, be early. Um, do not anticipate that, like, oh, it's a domestic flight, I can be there an hour and a half early. Absolutely not, three hours minimum. Um, and yeah, just be ready to queue for a long time. Um, but you know, the US and Canada and Mexico, like they have systems for this, they know how to do this, they host Super Bowls and big events all the time and all through the fall. Like if you think about the venues, they host, you know, anywhere from 40 to 80,000 people, but they do this on a weekly basis every Sunday. So I'm not worried about the flights. I would just say give yourself time.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

Okay, Maddie, thank you so much for joining us today. That I mean, it was completely eye-opening. I'm gonna keep Ashley because I want to understand who is going to the World Cup.

SPEAKER_05 51:42

I'm kind of stunned. I'm still stunned.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Then, Maddie, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_05 51:49

Bye.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

So, who is going to the World Cup then, Ashley?

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Apart from you. So um, not as many England fans as we would have originally expected. I think um your core support has been very excited about this tournament since it was first announced. The the the idea of a tournament in America, Mexico, and Canada was um, you know, is is something to sort of stick on the calendar a long time out. Um, sadly, as we've got close to it, um, and the frustrations with the tournament, the fears of the tournament, and most importantly the costs of the tournament, which kicked off with the ticket price announcement back in December, have put a lot of people off, um, or at least restricted the number of games that they will do. Um, plus, of course, throw in the potential length of the tournament if England progress. Um, it's not something you can typically fit in, even if you take your whole um annual holiday just to do the World Cup, which some people will do. Um so there won't be a huge amount of what you have seen historically at tournaments where people travel all the way through. Um throw in the fact that we've got the two friendlies. Um England fans get loyalty points for going to those two friendlies, they don't for World Cup matches. The loyalty points count towards Euro 28 tickets, which is at home. So a lot of fans are making sure that they take those in. Um, overall, the FA have said that um we're probably looking at the final numbers, they are not completely through, but I think it's eight or nine thousand traveling fans at some point, right? So they won't all be there at the same time. They'll be spread out at different points of the tournament. I think you're probably looking at seeing traveling England fans in the region of 3,000 each game. That there'll be some that's lower, some that's higher. But that doesn't take into account the expac community. So when you see an England match on TV, expect to see a lot more England fans. Not only have we got a huge amount of uh English that live and work in America, many of them on decent salaries, um, that'll be a great opportunity to go and watch England play. England also gets a lot of um support from other countries, so expect to see Americans supporting England. Quite often, um, some of the um Southeast Asian countries, the Japanese, etc., like to support England as well, so they'll be dotted around. So stadiums will probably look pretty full of England fans, but the core support, the ones that are coming all the way from uh across the Atlantic, probably around 3,000 a game.

SPEAKER_05 54:54

In a sense, that bodes quite well for us as a fan base, doesn't it, that there is this like residual support for England and that the team will probably feed off that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Yeah, I think so. Um, I mean it's again, FIFA have messed around with allocations in the seating bowl. Um so traditionally, core support would be behind the goal. Uh where the atmosphere is created, where it looks good on TV. FIFA have made those the highest category seats. Um, so um the core support are gonna be higher up in the second and third tiers. Um so I'm not sure who's gonna be in those seats behind the goals and who's gonna be making the atmosphere. So um it I'm sure it will look different on TV, right? You know, there's this is a billion-dollar commercial um television broadcast. Um, so I'm sure they'll make sure it looks pretty good and sounds pretty good. But if you're in the stadium, it's gonna be a bit different, a bit weird.

SPEAKER_05 55:57

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

Ashley, thank you so much for your time today. So as we wrap up then, I wonder, and haven't prepped you for this, but could you give us a kind of top tips guide for fans who are planning on coming out to the States of the World Cup, please?

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Yeah, I mean, I think Maddie's probably beaten me to it. I mean, but you know, plan ahead. Um think about um not just how you're gonna get from city to city, but think in depth about how you're gonna get to the stadium. Um, think about the weather that you might encounter and cope cope for it. 40 plus or even 35 plus degree heat is not the sort of thing that we are at all used to. And it it does affect you in different ways. You can't just expect to be out drinking beer in the sun in direct heat all day, and then go and stand in a queue to get in a stadium and it not to impact you. So um think a little bit differently, think about the conditions you're gonna deal with, plan ahead, stick with your mates, um, make sure each other are all okay, um, and most of all, enjoy yourself and support England.

SPEAKER_05 57:09

Is there um just is there anywhere people can go if they are looking for this advice beforehand, kind of written down or you know, like a PDF or a website?

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Yeah, yeah, we we we we'll we'll produce our tournament guide that will be available um online in May, and then we'll have our Free Lions guide that's um uh available for each match, and then we have our social media. Um the the most commonly one used by England fans is our Twitter feed, Free Lions. Um, and then we also have WhatsApp groups, etc. Um, so there's lots of places that um that that you can find out this information, and most of the regular England fans will be well aware of us and and and what we do.

SPEAKER_04 57:51

Ashley, thank you so much for joining us. It has been an absolute pleasure having you and truly uh eye-opening as well around this tournament. I think Lawrence looks at so it's done.

SPEAKER_05 58:03

Um yeah. Don't even know what to say. No worries. It's great for a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

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