How Technology Is Fueling Child Exploitation

Investigative journalist and author Christine Dolan joined Not On My Watch for a sobering conversation about the evolving threat of human trafficking and child exploitation. Drawing on more than 25 years of investigative experience, Dolan revealed how technology has transformed the ways predators identify, groom, and exploit vulnerable children.

From social media and messaging platforms to online pornography and artificial intelligence, predators now have unprecedented access to young people. Dolan explained how traffickers study a child’s vulnerabilities and use attention, affection, opportunity, or the promise of safety to build trust and gain control.

The conversation also highlights the lasting trauma experienced by survivors and the importance of listening to those who courageously pursue truth and justice.

Dolan’s book, Shattered Innocence: A Shared Global Shame, takes readers inside her decades-long investigation into modern slavery, exposing how technology, greed, power, and corruption have enabled exploitation to spread across borders. Her message is urgent: no family is immune, and protecting children requires awareness, involvement, and vigilance.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hello and welcome to Not On My Watch, the podcast where we expose the realities of child exploitation, human trafficking, and the courageous people working every day to protect our children. I'm your host, April Moss. Today's guest is award-winning investigative journalist Christine Dolan, whose career has taken her from serving as CNN's political director to spending more than 25 years investigating child trafficking and exploitation in more than 140 countries around the world. What began as a single question to a London police officer, how old are the victims, changed the course of her life forever. The answer was one word. Today she is the co-founder of American Conversation Town Halls and is on the board of the World Tribune. She also co-founded the International Coalition Children in Slavery, the 21st Century Global Campaign. And she's the author of Shattered Innocence, a shared global shame. Today we'll discuss what she's learned after decades investigating one of the world's fastest growing criminal enterprises, why she believes these crimes often happen in plain sight, and what every parent should know to help protect the children they love. Christine, thank you so much for joining the show today. It's a real honor to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Well, it it's a it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Christine.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

One of the things that struck me while I was reading your book, Shattered Innocence, is that you didn't simply interview victims, you sat with them, you learned their names, you had dinners with them, you uh you were hanging out on street corners with them, you heard their fears and you cried with them. And how did those conversations change you as a person?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Uh it enlightened me. Um I've I I I have a heart for people who are disabled because my mother um was disabled. I was the youngest in my childhood in my family, and my mom had a really bad, bad, severe case of rheumatoid arthritis. So I was very empathetic to people who were disabled. Um, but I knew nothing about child abuse. And I remember calling my parents after I did my first investigation and thanking them for protecting all of us because I didn't realize how prolific child abuse, sex trafficking was. I mean, I was pretty blown away. And and I was seasoned. I mean, I was in my 40s when I did this, and and I remember thinking that, you know, in war zones, you expect people to be be to have lost their minds. They're surviving and they're trying to do the best they possibly can. But I think that my my view of the world shifted dramatically when I did my first investigation because I realized that this evil smut is among us, and we just don't see it. And I actually, that summer of 2000, I called my dear friend Charlie Black. And Charlie's a Republican uh consultant, and he's been around you know forever. And when I was coming up and broadcasting, um, I got to know Charlie, and I said to him, You won't believe the summer I had. And I said, We need to get people with our socioeconomic uh backgrounds involved in this fight because this has just a horrible I mean, slavery's alive and well. I didn't have to prove to people that slavery was evil. I had to prove to people at the cusp of the 21st century that slavery never went away. It was a different model, a different prism. And sometimes some of the actions that we take in the civilized world, the Shagan Agreement, for instance, I mean, this is you know the passport in Europe, it started in the 1990s, but that actually was uh uh people wanted to do it because of human rights. They wanted people to be able to live in a European Western European country and and and work in another country and go back and forth. And so it was just it was viewed as an EU passport, and that actually was one of the tools of the trade because it opened up the borders for the transporting of you could just get fake passports, and and people would do that. So it was easy once you came across the Adriatic from Albania into the the southern boot of Italy in Birdisi or Bari, and then from there you go to Milano and boom, you're in you're in the in London in the Soho Brappels. So it was it was an awakening for me, and then when I would listen to the kids when they would be in what we call safe houses, they would tell me, you know, how many times that they tried to go across the Adriatic. And I and I remember interviewing this this young boy, and I think this was in Milano. Uh, Susan and Yelly's had a safe house for kids. And it was either Roma or Milano, but I was talking to these kids, and this kid had tried three times to go across the Adriatic, and I thought, well, how tenacious. And I started to laugh because I'm thinking, okay, this is a kid who's you know focused. And then he stopped me and he said, You don't understand. I have witnessed the the traffickers with the people in the boat, and then when the cops come, they literally will grab a baby from a mother's arms and throw it into the water because they want to get the people off the boat. So, I mean, you know, there were shocking stories. Um, there was a woman who I interviewed in Tirana in a safe house, and she was from Ukraine, she was in her 20s, and her husband was back in Ukraine, and she had gone to the Balkans, and she was she knew that she because during the war, there, you know, they're in a war zone, pre-war, during war, post-war, there's a lot of money. We know this, okay? Whether you're building or destroying a country. And she was going because she she thought she would dance. She or and maybe she would strip, but she never envisioned that she would be sexually trafficked. And I remember asking her, would you would you tell your mother what happened to you? And she's like, oh my God, no. You know, so I mean, it's the the tragedy of of this is the scars, because they don't leave the victims. And it's boys and girls. And I think that one of what I learned from the victims is that women are traffickers, women are rapists too. I mean, you know, that myth that people held held out there that women would never do this to another child, that's just baloney. They, in fact, there are cases, there's prosecutions. Um, even in this, even in the United States, years ago, there was a case where it was a woman from China, and she was she was she had a I mean, she had a stable of people that she was trafficking here in the United States. So and and the impact of the internet, uh, in those days, you know, this is 26 years ago, the internet was a tool of the trade that the traffickers were using. And at that point in time, the law enforcement had brought me in on the inside. Our cybercrime unit was only started in the late 1990s by Ray Kelly. He was a former uh police commissioner in New York.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

He was uh in explain to our audience what cybercrime unit you're referring to. What what what is the the title of the group that you were working with?

SPEAKER_00 8:11

It's it is it it's ICE Cybercrime. I mean, a lot of people think of ICE, they think of the borders, but it was actually set up in the late 1990s by Ray Kelly, and it was they brought me in on the inside before I even hit the ground running in 2000, and they went into a chat room, and the the cop uh pretended to be Heidi, who was a 12 or 13-year-old kid, and within a nanosecond, hi hon, how are you? Are you alone? So we knew that the predators were on the internet in 2000, but we but at the same time, the cops on the street covering trafficking weren't not yet married to the cops on the internet. That that that nexus came very quickly uh after I did my my um my first investigation. But the internet since then is it is the tool of the trade. There's no trafficking case right now that doesn't include the internet. There were cases 26 years ago that didn't include the internet, but it is it is now I mean, since the iPhone, I guess Steve Jobs released that one in 2006, and that it that puts the that that that's like gripping a child because they look at the pornography. We've desensitized people. And when I was in, when I started this body of work, uh 75% of the porn that was on the internet, according to the cybercrime cops, was 75% was erotica, and then 25% was this bestiality. That has now flipped in the last 26 years. So if an eight and if if an eight-year-old child in America, that's the average age of kids looking at porn, six years of age, um, is in the UK, when they see that porn, they're seeing it's not sex, it's it's torture. I mean, we have gotten to the point now where um there's an expectation among a younger generation for choking during sex. I mean w uh uh how people have to say, how did we get here? So when that's yeah, yeah. What how did we how did we get to the point that this is this is normal? Because it's not normal. It's not healthy. You can you you don't even have to go to the morality side of this thing. It's not normal when people are torturing somebody and then they they they put it out on the internet.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Why do you think it has increasingly gone more graphic and more extreme with the content? Um, is it simply because it's more easily accessible with um technology progressing with digital platforms and social media and cell phones, or why do you think it is advanced to this extent that it has?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

I used to think that the perverts would go on the internet and then they would find other perverts and then they would validate each other. All right. But what has happened now, and and I use this as a comparison, um, a friend of mine, Bob Hamer, who's an FBI agent, he infiltrated uh North American Boy Love Association about 20 years ago. And they didn't have a lobbying effort. And in 2019, I attended a minor attractipons conference. Now, these are the people who claim that they do not they're sexually attracted to minors, but they they claim that they don't act out, except for they had a guy there who, in fact, got up to speak and he spent 10 years in jail. And we all know that people don't spend 10 years in jail for buying a child and I, you know, an eight-year-old an ice cream cone.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

But Who were their investigative journalists under cover at this?

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Well, they yeah, it wasn't open to the press, it was open to therapists. And I called a friend of mine who was chair of a board of a mental health association, and I said, please sign us up, use our real names. And so I went in and and I was the only journalist that was in the room. Um, and then I reported it on that. But the one thing that the the difference between 20 years ago when Bob infiltrated Namba and when I attended this conference in 2019 is that today they actually have a lobbying effort. And they think that sex registrations are discriminatory for housing because in some cases um the people are told you know you can't live next to a playground because they've gone after targeted kids. And and and and it's and it's out there, it's public knowledge. Um and they want to decriminalize pedophilia, they want to have it normalized. They think that that that we on the other side of the table uh stigmatize them, and there's nothing wrong with being sexually attracted to a minor. Now, put this in the context of people who have been raped by adults, a seven-year-old boy raped by a 45-year-old priest. That's not sex, that's torture. And it and it leaves indelible imprints on people's mind because it's traumatic. So when people say to me, Christine, you know, they'll never um decriminalize pedophilia, I said that 15 years ago. And then when a friend of mine attended a minor attracted conference, and she she was a uh she had her PhD, when she attended a conference around 2010 or 2011, and again, it wasn't open to the press, she called me. She said, Christine, they're going to decriminalize pedophilia. I said, that that that sounds nuts. But then when I was in the room, I realized that these people, the people who think like this do not think the way we think. And in April, in our business, in the media, I don't think people in the media that care about child protection have any idea because it is so foreign. I mean, if anybody was in the newsroom, I mean, you you you were at CBS, 0-0 in Detroit. I've been at the networks. If anybody in the newsroom was talking about decriminalizing pedophilia, I think that the bosses would kind of look at them and say, You've got you you've got to be kidding me. Right. But I've been there and I've heard these people talk about this, and I think to myself, my God, what is happening in in our society?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Well, I would love to go back to how you said that the the PhDs, the counselors were attending this minor attracted persons conference and explain for our audience why that would be the case. What were the this this push from the minor attracted persons group, the LGBTQ agenda? Why were they focusing in on trying to convince the counselors and the mental health people that this was not something that should be criminalized and that this is something that should be accepted socially?

SPEAKER_00 15:26

It was it was very interesting. At the very beginning of the conference that day, they were talking about a German model. And I asked, I was I was planning on keeping my mouth shut, but I couldn't, I couldn't contain myself. Um, and I said, Why are we talking about the German model? And they wanted the the therapist to advocate for them in therapy here in the United States, it's required mandatory reporting. If I'm a therapist and a client comes in, a patient comes in and tells me that they're raping, you know, a two-year-old, a five-year-old, to six-year-old, I am required to report that patient to law enforcement. All right. And teachers are required to report here in the United States. And so they wanted these therapists to advocate on their behalf to change the law. And the carrot they held out to the therapists were we don't we don't really want to act out. We want to get help before we act out, and we will bring you the clients. And they asked the therapist to sign up if they were interested. Now, I sat at a table with a couple of therapists, and I asked them why they were in attendance. One woman said to me that she had been court appointed, so she was the counselor for somebody who was a convicted sex offender, and she wanted to learn more to see if she could even handle the situation. The other woman uh had no clients, but she was coming to learn to see if she could handle it. When the speaker during a break came over to our table, I asked him about his friend, because he didn't say in his presentation how old his friend was. He said that he had spent 10 years in jail. Of course, it's not an ice cream cone, as I just said, uh, you know, and I said to him, Tell me about your friend. How did you meet your friend? And he said that his friend was the son of a woman that he knew. And I said, So how old was your friend? And that's when he said eight. And then when I went back and I looked at the documents, uh, I think I think the documents said he was nine or something like that. But it was at that point in time, that therapist who was wanted to see if she could handle it, she got triggered and got up from the table and took a break.

unknown 17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

You know, I mean, it is it is it's not normal. It's not normal. Um and I think it I think that anybody who who thinks that it's normal is twisted.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Absolutely, a hundred percent. And and I want to point out too, you know, you've talked about in your book how traffickers often build relationships with their victims before they exploit them. What have you learned about how traffickers earn trust before they exploit it?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

They uh you know, I I Jeffrey Epstein was classic uh because he could he could read people. Um sociopaths sometimes have empathy and they can they can prey on somebody's weaknesses. Traffickers uh validate, and they validate in different ways. So they look at a human being as a commodity. What do they need? What do they want? And just like Epstein would ask these these young girls, what are your dreams? What do you want to do when you grow up, things like that. That is the that that is opens the door for the carrot.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

So basically for them to be manipulated.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yes. Okay, yes, yes, and and I think that there are some people, but you also have the violence, you know, so it's the validating, and then there's a violence side of this. Um and it it ch there's not you know, there's no normal because every case is very different, but the questions are there. And I would ask the victims, how did you get here? And I would ask the traffickers, how did you become a trafficker? I mean, what what twisted thing happened in your mind that you inflict pain on another human being for your own pleasure and survival? And what were their answers? Some of them laughed it off. Some of them laughed it off.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

A lot of these people were given a promise, right? A promise of love or safety or opportunity, especially if they're trying to flee a country that is war-torn food, right? They can't get basic um things to live, but ultimately they're drawn in by some sort of hope that they've been given that they'll have a better life. And would you say that that's one of the greatest ways that traffickers initially get their victims is through uh like a false promise of it is.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

I mean, and it and again, it's going to vary. I mean, there's some there's some countries uh where you know it's very difficult, it's the economy is collapsed. So you you get the poverty issue. You might be a war zone. You're you you you're promised an education, you're promised a dream. So it's it's creating this what I call false hope. And false hope is something that I I think is very, very dangerous, and and it's always based upon lies. And you know, unfortunately, when I saw what happened in COVID in our in our country in the US, people lining up like sheep, I I realized that false hope can be deadly in any circumstances.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah. And and and it's especially when it's driven by fear, right? Like you're being driven to do something because you're afraid if you don't do it, X, Y, or Z will happen. Um You know, I'm curious why do you think it happens that w uh sometimes when I uh victims are identified, they even Some victims can defend or remain emotionally attached to the traffickers. I think that's an interesting point that many people don't understand fully.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Well, they they they call it the Romeo syndrome, and sometimes it's the boyfriends, and they're first their boyfriends, and then all of a sudden then they want to quote unquote turn out their girlfriend, uh, and then you know it becomes a slippery slope. They're uh and sometimes they don't want to believe that this person this person has victimized them. I mean, I've interviewed people who who don't didn't even know that they were victims, you know, and we hear that uh even in some of the Epstein victims, they have said that they didn't realize that they were a victim until many years later. Uh, you know, and I'm not saying that everybody, everybody that was a victim of Jeffrey Epstein's was trafficked, all right? But they it it is it it kind of blocks out, and I don't know why it happens, but it blocks out people to think clearly, I think, if you're traumatized. And and uh for years there were people in the human trafficking arena that were saying that victims were suffering from PTST. And I found um uh a woman uh in Pennsylvania who's a counselor for perverts and for victims, and she's written several books, and and I met with her because she made more sense than anybody else, and she calls it compounded trauma, and it makes sense when you think about it, it's very logical. If a child is abused sexually at a young age, and that that child is not healed, they there's a pattern where they they continue to make stupid decisions that are harmful, so that they might end up in jail, they might end up dead, they might end up really, really broken. And I tested this uh theory in um in a Philadelphia detention center for women. I uh asked a friend of mine who was uh hosting Bible studies if if I could if I could get in, and the warden let me in. And for two hours I asked them about how many of them were raped as children, and 85% of hands, how many were raped, period. 85%. And then I went down in terms of ages, you know, under 10 years and years of age when they were raped. And it was it's it's pretty amazing when you see how many people that have suffered for that, and then you realize that the reason why they're in jail probably is because that they've they've been suffering from stupid decisions, probably caused by trauma in their life, and they didn't get any help. And I don't know what the answer is. I but I but I do know that when people don't want, when people want to pass legislation to hold child rapists accountable with judicial discretion, they need to, those politicians need to be supported. And and I know of one case in Colorado, Ron Scott was a newbie to politics, and I think you guys had hosted, I think Mary Flynn and you guys at American Futures have hosted an event at his church. He found that in Colorado in the last six years that there was no legislation for first offenders for people who rape minors. So they came up with some legislation and it never got out of the committee because the Democrats said we don't want to put these people in jail because they'll be harmed. Well, what do you do then? What do you what do you do? If somebody rapes a two-year-old, ridiculous you go to jail. You go to jail.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Exactly right. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah. So I mean, there's there is a movement, there's a movement where uh we're not we're not looking at this as a crime. And we're not looking at through the eyes of a victim who you know grows up and grows older. And and it was during my Catholic investigation when, because when I did my first investigation, I was I was dealing with kids in the moment of being trafficked, young adults in the moment. But then when I did my Catholic investigation, I began that like a year and a half later, I was dealing with adults who were raped as kids, and the ramifications and the turmoil in their lives. And there's a pattern there where there's if they're if they're a man raped by a priest, they question their own sexuality, they had problems in work, they had problems in relationships, they had problems in their family, um, and they had mental mental issues, emotional issues. Um so we're not having those big conversations about these are crimes, these have long-term ramifications, and society is going to pay one way or the other. We're either going to prevent these and wake people up and let them know that you need to protect children, or society's gonna pay on the far end of it because they they people have problems coping with the ramifications of being abused sexually as a child.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

You know, I want to touch on one thing, um, you know, uh as it relates to trying to pass legislation and it keeps getting stalled. When you were doing your investigations, you encountered corruption reaching into positions of power. How common was corruption among public officials during your investigation and how did it interfere with efforts to protect victims and prosecute traffickers? Could that be maybe a link as to why it's taking so long for us to have proper laws on the books to protect children?

SPEAKER_00 27:46

You know, it's it's interesting. I when I started my first investigation, April, it was spring of 2000. The federal law that Bill Clinton signed into um was in October of 2000. So that was the federal law. And it was using the word human trafficking. Now there's a history here of why we call slavery human trafficking, and it goes back to uh the League of Nations in 1920. There were two um committees. One was uh on trafficking and one was on slavery, and slavery was what we would call labor trafficking and and and today, and then uh the trafficking then was sexual exploitation. And then it it kind of came together, then we call it human trafficking, and then I for my model I have about nine or ten fake different faces of human trafficking. But the when we passed that law in in October of 2000, we also um took a look in the United States. That the well, the law required that we do a report every year, and we basically, the U.S. State Department office, where it was set up, would grade where other countries were. The U.S. was not did not have itself in the book until 2010. But the model that spun out of that was that you had NGOs like Shared Hope that would grade the states. Where is Colorado? Where's Massachusetts? Where's New York in terms of um legislation? And it was very difficult in those days to really prosecute trafficking because of intent. One, the witnesses are an issue. Some of them are still in love with their traffickers. Um you would have people who who maybe wouldn't be a good witness on a stand. You had, I mean, but that has changed. Now we've gotten to the point where we will hold motels, hotels, chains, third parties. I mean, there was a case that just was um it just happened in Atlanta. I think it was last year they won it, and it was a big case. It went to the jury because a lot of these cases a lot of times don't go to the juries. But this one did, and it would it held a hotel. Now, they were not the traffickers, but it happened on their site. So we would there is a progression, but it's as slow as molasses. Uh, but and and sometimes the prosecutors, because this crime is transnational and transcriminal, and we know that there's an overlap with terrorism and weapons and drugs, a lot of times the prosecutors will say, you know what? It's easier for us to get a conviction on the drugs or the weapons than it is on the sex. And sometimes those prosecutors will go ahead with that. And that, and you know, quite frankly, if you get these people off the streets, right, if you can get them for longer years for weapons, I mean, uh that may not be satisfactory to some of the victims, but at least it's something.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yeah. Well, I unfortunately we're just about out of time, but my last question for you is that after everything you've witnessed, what do you wish the world understood? Not about traffickers, but about the extraordinary resilience of the people who survived them.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

I've actually been inspired by the Epstein victims. I've been inspired. Now I I think that some of them were not trafficked, um, but they certainly certainly have have have have taken this on. And and I think that it's a very important case. I think it has legs financially. I think that some of the stuff that Epstein was involved in on the finance side, it really needs to see the light of day. I think that the lawyers like Brad Edwards, uh, thank God for him, because he's taken the BRICS from Jeffrey Epstein, representing victims. But he and Britney, his uh law partner, have in fact stood by the I think that that Jack Scarello uh is the only lawyer I know, former prosecutor, who took on who represented Brad Edwards when Epstein went after Brad uh in a civil case. It was dropped. Epstein had to make an apology. I I it it takes a lot for these people to stay in the game, and I have respect for people who just want to see justice. It's that simple. They just want to see justice. They want the world to know that yes, this goes on. And I think that people need to understand that they shouldn't be mocked. Victims should not be mocked. They should be listened to. And people because there, for the grace of God, go any of us, depending upon the circumstances in life, that anybody could could be could fall to this. And and I think it's really important for people to understand that traffickers consciously and without a conscience and target people. And a lot of people don't understand just uh how people think because they consciously consciously target people. And that can happen in a corporation, it can happen in medicine. Uh there's no industry where people uh where somebody is immune from being taken advantage of. And I think that that's that's where we have to focus, is just realize we're a broken species in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah. Well, certainly, I mean, your your book is incredible. I encourage everybody to uh purchase it. It's called Shattered Innocence. This is one of three books that Christine is the author of. And uh, Christine, we'd love to have you back on again to discuss your other books as well. And um absolutely incredible information here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Well, thank you, April. And you guys do you guys do great work at America's Futures. I know that Mary Flynn and I participated in a couple of your panels. It it's it you go where you should go, which is to the parents, to the communities, because uh people need to realize that you have to be parenting today is a lot different than when I was a child. And today it's it's it's almost like you've got to be a cop to protect your kids because kids are so much at risk. And when this happens to a family, and I've seen this, it changes the dynamics of a family. And nobody's immune to that. You'll need the innocence of that family structure will be lost forever. That's why I'm I'm I'm so outspoken about the people need to take this seriously, and especially in light of AI. Yeah. That's gonna that's gonna be a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Christine, thank you so much for your time today. We're so grateful that you came to join us and for all of your expertise. And I know it is not easy to do the job that you've been doing for the last several decades, focusing on this topic. And you've been shining a light on child trafficking and exploitation far longer than the general public even knew it existed. So thank you uh again for being here today. And uh, we are going to have links to this book, Shattered Innocence, below, as well as to your other publications as well.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Thank you. Thank you, April. Glad to be with you.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

If today's conversation taught us anything, it's that awareness alone is not enough. It takes informed parents, engaged communities, ethical journalism, strong partnerships, and everyday people who refuse to look the other way. Every one of us has a role to play in protecting the most vulnerable among us. To learn more about Christine Dolan's work and her book, Shattered Innocence, a shared global shame, be sure to check out the links in the episode description. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Not On My Watch. If you found this conversation valuable, please subscribe, share this episode with someone who needs to hear it, and help us continue shining a light on the issues that matter most. Until next time, stay informed and get involved.