How Brandon Harwell Built Blessed Trinity into a Georgia Flag Football Power

Coach Brandon Harwell of Blessed Trinity joins the She Plays Flag Podcast to talk about building one of Georgia’s top girls flag football programs and the coaching philosophy behind sustained success.

Coach Harwell shares his journey from coaching baseball and freshman tackle football into girls flag football, how coaching every position shaped the way he teaches the game, and why communication, efficiency, and adaptability matter so much in a growing sport.

We also discuss:

•  Building culture in a championship-level program 
•  Coaching female athletes 
•  Managing small coaching staffs 
•  Translating tackle football concepts into flag football 
•  Multi-sport athlete development 
•  Practice organization and efficiency 
•  The rapid growth of girls flag football in Georgia 
•  Lessons learned from coaching multiple sports 
•  Creating buy-in and accountability 

This episode is packed with insight from one of the most respected coaches in the Georgia flag football community.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of the She Plays Flag Podcast. I'm your host, as always, Matt Mashvern. And in today's episode, we are talking with Coach Brandon Harwell. He's the head girls' flag coach at Blessed Trinity High School in Roswell, Georgia. We're going to talk about that in a second, but before we do, uh, a couple of house housekeeping notes. Uh first off, as always, I want to thank everyone for listening. Uh, the response to this has just been tremendous, and I really appreciate everyone's support and everyone listening. Next, uh, I do want to put out another call for guests. As you know, and I've said this before, always looking for new guests, different guests. Um, and this week particularly, I'd like to I'd like to put out a call for uh any guests in states that have recently sanctioned girls' flag football at the high school level. So think of states like North Carolina, New Jersey, Kentucky. I think each of those has officially sanctioned the game over the past month or so, maybe even a couple of weeks. So I would love to speak with someone uh involved in the game in those states and hear about how everything went down and and what it looks like for the future in those states. Um also I'm really very interested in speaking with someone uh who is involved with the NFL side of things in flag football. So uh the NFL is is doing a tremendous amount of work and a tremendous amount of support uh for the game across the country. So again, I would love to talk with someone from the NFL involved with that and hear about what the NFL is doing uh to promote the sport into the future as it's getting more and more traction and we're going into the Olympics. Uh, what's that going to look like from the NFL side? And then finally, uh as always, again, uh just asking you listeners for feedback. Um, I'm interested in making uh this show as good as it can possibly be for the listeners. So my my goal here is to get the right guests and the right information out there to listeners uh who tune in. So uh your feedback is vitally important. What do you want to see more of? What do you want to see less of? What am I doing well? What am I doing not so well? I need to get better. Uh and the only way I can do that is from your feedback. So please send it my way. So, with that, Brandon Harwell is our guest today, the head coach of Blessed Trinity in Roswell, Georgia. And I'm just going to kind of go and give a quick rundown of the Blessed Trinity program over the past few years. So going back to 2021. Uh, that season, I believe that was their first season, and they went 12-3 in a final four appearance. Pretty good for a first season. Flipped that into 2022, 17-2 overall with a Georgia State Championship to go along with that. Uh, in that year, they were ranked number one in the state of Georgia, and Max Prepps had a blessed attorney ranked at number one nationally. This was in 2022. Looking forward to 2023, they went 22-3 overall. We're a state runner-up, finishing the top five in Georgia and top 10 nationally. 2024, 19-4 overall, area champs, state runner-up again, top five in Georgia, top 40 nationally. And that brings us to 2025, this most recent season. The team went 19-5. State champions again, uh, which was an incredible game. If you can find this game on YouTube, I highly, highly suggest it. It was uh a great game that went into double overtime. Blessed Trinity was able to pull out a 21-20 win over Milton, uh, who you may remember from an earlier episode with their head coach Clark Nixon. So he talks about that a little bit. Highly recommend you take a look at that game. And in that 2025 season, ending up, Max Brick had Blessed Trinity ranked number four in Georgia and number 14 national. So, all that to say, Blessed Trinity has clearly uh become one of the top high school girls' flag teams in the state of Georgia, if not nationally. And uh hearing from Coach Harwell, you're going to find out why. Um, I would say this about Coach, he's coach baseball, basketball, uh, gall, uh obviously flag football. And so what I would say about Coach is he's not a flag football coach, he's not a baseball coach, he's a coach. Uh, and I think that's really gonna come out, and you're gonna hear that uh listening to him talk about the game and talking about his athletes and how he thinks about uh his role as a head coach. So I'm really excited for you to listen to this episode uh of the She Plays Flag podcast. And with that, let's get to it. Here is head coach Brandon Harwell, Blessed Trinity High School in Roswell, Georgia. Coach Brandon Harwell, head girls flag coach at Blessed Trinity High School. Uh Coach, how are you today?

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Doing great. Doing great. I'm excited to be here. I appreciate you having me. I've enjoyed um, you know, listening to Coach Frazier over at Pope, Coach Bergdorf over at McKeachern, and uh Coach Nixon at uh Milton.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, you know, and I think it's um it's been a few months since I've been doing this, and uh in the in that time I've talked to a whole lot of coaches. And especially the ones that are when I talk to coaches in Georgia, one of the very first things they say is, have you talked to Coach Harwell yet? And I heard that enough to where I was a little bit, wow, this is like, is this is this guy like the godfather of flag football in Georgia? I'm a little bit intimidated to call him up because everybody mentioned your name. You need to talk to Coach Carl Harwell. So uh finally uh we ran into each other in Macon and uh mentioned it and uh and then we got it going. So I'm I'm really glad to uh to finally have you on here.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I I think I'm the oldest guy. So maybe that uh maybe that has something to do with it, or uh, you know, maybe they just want to make fun of me later.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

It might be that. Well, um, you know, I I know the the Blessed Trinity program is has been one of the top programs in the state uh for a few years, and and uh it just seems to always kind of rise to the top of the discussion. So uh really glad we get a chance to sit down and hear about the program and and hear about kind of what you're doing over there. Um to let's start off. Why don't you just give us give us a background and introduce us to who you are?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, so uh, you know, Brandon Harwell, obviously, um, you know, I'm at Blessed Trinity. I've been there for 20 years. This is my 20th year here at BT. Uh I worked in public school before that. Um uh my my coaching background is I've coached baseball. Even when I was in grad school, uh, I started coaching at Salem High School, uh, where I was doing my student teaching. Um and so I've been coaching baseball for 25 years now. Uh and then I coached boys' basketball uh when I was in public school. And then when I came to BT, uh Coach Turner, who was my high school coach, asked me to help out and coach ninth grade football. So I coached ninth grade football for a while. And then when my second daughter was born, uh I got out of football because it was just such uh, you know, such a heavy time commitment. And I I had two kids under two at the time. And so uh, you know, my wife was like, choose. And so I uh I stayed with baseball and then just always had that itch. I had the love to get back. I think the one thing that really helped me about coaching boys football that's helping me now is being a ninth grade coach. Um, I had to coach every position. I think that I coached in my I think six years coaching ninth grade football, I coached DBs, safeties, wide receivers, linebackers, defensive ends. Uh I coached running backs, uh tight ends, but never the offensive line. I even coach kickers a little bit. Um, so I think that it was really helpful for me to try to have to figure out how to learn and how to communicate with different people. And also talking to some great coaches um, you know, that have really made me better, uh, that were on those varsity staffs. Uh and then also you were on a small staff uh when I was coaching freshman. You know, there were only most of the time there were only three of us that were doing it. Uh, and so you had to learn real quick how to uh, you know, be efficient and also, you know, you couldn't rely on other people to do things. You had to kind of jump in and just dig your heels in and get with the kids. And I think that that's made a huge difference for me. Um, and then obviously there's so much overlap with other sports, with the basketball background, with baseball, uh, especially defensively. Um, so you know, that's kind of what led me to this, and then just got the opportunity to jump into flag. Wasn't wasn't really necessarily thinking I was gonna be head coaching, but that's uh that's how things went. And then just been over blessed with the players that we have had in the program. Um, they've made such a tremendous impact on the life of my family um as well as myself. Um, and then just couldn't imagine not doing this now. Um, and it's hard to believe that I did almost 20 years of my career without it. Um, I wish I could go back and start doing this at at 22 uh rather than waiting until I was uh not 22 uh to get going.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

You you'd be somewhere down in Florida if you were doing it at 22. Yeah, probably. Well, I I want to go back though. What uh where where are you from? Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

So I grew up in Conyers, uh, Georgia. Uh so you know, on the way down towards Augusta, um, and just had a great experience there. I went to Salem High School, which is where I worked initially when I I graduated, um, and I spent four years there and then was given the opportunity to come up here to Blessed Trinity. And uh I've been here ever since.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

And were you an athletic kid? Were you into sports?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. So I I played uh sports my entire life. Um I played, you know, varsity basketball, um, which could if you've seen me in person, I'm not a big guy. So we were not very good. Um, but I had a great experience with that. And then I played baseball uh as well. I played baseball in college uh at Barrie College uh in Rome, Georgia, also.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

And it's the same for me and just about everybody I talk to growing up playing sports. Uh, there are coaches that that you remember. There's a lot of coaches you don't remember, but there's always seems to be that one or two that just really, really imprinted on you. I assume, I assume the same.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

No doubt. Um, I think that uh, you know, I I was blessed with my mom and dad. Um, and my dad, I think he missed one game that I played in high school and college, and it was because it was my brother's senior night. Uh he traveled everywhere uh to watch me play. Um, and he was my coach growing up. And so I learned a lot from him uh on how to treat people, um, you know, what's important in life, um, and you know, going back to our faith, um, and then just playing the games the right way and not focusing on, you know, necessarily winning and losing. Uh, that's a byproduct of the effort that we have on a continual basis, moment by moment. And so my dad had a huge impact on me. And then Coach Turner, who's here at Blessed Trinity uh as our athletic director, he had a significant impact on my life as well. Uh, not only for the way that he carried himself on the field, but also for the things that and the integrity that he showed off the field. It really resonated with me as a high school student. And then we were just able to stay in touch over the years. And when I got the opportunity to come and work for him, uh, you know, I jumped at it. And uh, I've been really, it was kind of full circle. There's a picture in his office of him with his oldest son uh holding him, and I'm there. And then I got to coach his oldest son, and then uh, you know, his one of his other sons as well here at Blessed Trinity. So it's been really cool. Um, but you know, the way that that he does things uh the right way, um, it had a big impact on me. And then also Coach Harlan, um, when I was a young coach and I came to BT because you know I was in public school for four years and then came here. So I feel like I really have grown up at BT. And Coach Harlan taught me a tremendous amount. Uh, you know, I thought I knew a lot. Uh, you know, you're young, you think you know a lot. And he taught me so much about being a lifelong learner as a coach and being curious and asking questions. Uh I remember one time where we were watching a uh we were going back and watching an ALCS game, and there was uh a ball hit to right uh right down the line and right, but it wasn't a double, it was a single, it was a long single, and the Kansas City Royals scored from first on it because they threw the ball to the second baseman, they were going to second, he kept going, they turned and relayed, and the third base coach never hesitated, never hesitated and pulled him along. And one of our BT parents was actually the home plate umpire in that game. So we were talking to him about that and just what was the decision making, what was going through his head? How did he know to do that? And so uh his one of it, the third base coach, one of his sons, was up in uh Wisconsin at a Division III school, and they were doing a hitting clinic. And so Coach Arlen hopped on a plane in December and went up there. We thought he was gonna get snowed in. He was taking notes. We were finding out just what went on. Um, and so that's kind of the way that I've been. A lot of what we do offensively. Uh, I picked up uh some of that from a boys' football coach out in California, uh, just with some of the choice routes, the option routes uh that we do. Uh when I first got into this, um Marcy Cochrane from down at Southeast Bullock was so generous with her time uh to talk to me because we we were very fortunate. Our first year, we had a lot of really good athletes, uh, but we we didn't know what we were doing. Uh and so we got into the Final Four that year, and it's a downpour. Um, and so we were using a composite football, which is not a good thing for for rain. And we're supposed to play at the uh backyard down, the home depot backyard down at Mercedes-Benz, and it's mud, it was gonna be horrible. So I'm talking to Coach Pinckney down at Hillgrove, and I'm like, I'm looking for a leather football. Have you found one? He's going to Academy Sports over in Cobb. I'm going to Academy Sports and Dicks over in Alpharetta. Finally, we found some. I was texting him back and forth. But what I realized was we didn't really have a diversified offense. Uh, we weren't able to run the football if we needed to in the rain, and it was going to be a problem for us. Um, and so after that year, I watched Southeast Bullock in the the finals that year, um, which, you know, every year you can see them in the finals. But I reached out to her and was like, hey, listen, I think I'm going to have an athlete that is going to be able to do this and help us out. Uh, and I would like to incorporate some of the things that you do into our offense. And she was just very generous with her time, talking to me, sharing film with me. Um, and so, you know, those early lessons that I learned from Coach Arlan about just not being afraid to reach out and not getting stuck. Um, that really impacted my ability as a flag coach, even though it started in baseball, with the the things that I've been able to learn from Coach Cochran, I've reached out to, I've learned a lot from Coach Frazier at Pope, Coach Bergdorf at McKeacher. Obviously, with the relationship that Clark and I have had, uh, you know, certainly as rivals the past couple of years. Um, but also just we sat down before this season at Starbucks. I think it was like an hour and a half or two hours, just talking flag and uh talking about the the fun stuff and the hopes that we have for the sport and also just doing some chalk talk.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Well, I I wish I could have mic'd you two up for that uh for that discussion at Starbucks.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah, it was pretty cool. And then we even uh, I guess it was uh at the uh over Christmas this year, we came up and met here at BT and we watched the Alonzo Wellington State Championship game uh from the year before um in Florida and just kind of broke that down, uh looked at it a little bit. Um, and it was, you know, I think that's how you get better. Um and um I always want to get better. I'm always want to stay hungry um and never be satisfied. Uh I talk to my kids all the time, uh, you know, whether it's on the baseball team or on the flag team, that I firmly believe that the number one obstacle to greatness is complacency. Um and so in our program, yes, we never want to be complacent. We always want to be evolving, we always want to stay on that positive cycle of growth. And so we talk a tremendous amount about how to avoid the pitfalls of complacency, um, how to be good teammates, uh, and how to hopefully execute that day and not rest on previous success. Uh, we constantly want to get better. And then the other thing that we got was kind of from the rugby team in New Zealand. Uh, you know, I read a book on that and they talked about leaving the jersey better than you found it. Uh, and so I have a series of videos of our previous players with messages to our players, and at the very end, they always say, you know, leave the jersey better than you found it, leave my number better than you found it. Um, and you know, hopefully keep everybody passing the torch.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I I tell you that, I think that's one of the most powerful tools in a toolbox is the connectedness with former players and former people, people who were formerly involved with the program directly. Uh, just that community. You can just you can see programs who do that really well across any sport, who keep that connection with their with their alumni, with their former players and their supporters. Uh, they just seem to have that one extra level of strength uh to the program. Uh so yeah, I think that's I think that's a great um a great priority focus. So I want to go back. Let's start uh let's go to season one. Buster Trinity did not have a flag team one day, and the next day they did. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

I mean, it so I was at La Paria, um, one of my uh favorite restaurants to go to, and I was with our head baseball coach, Jamie Wagner, who's an unbelievable coach and uh man. Um, you know, we're sitting there with our families and the the West for Syth game, that uh that that incredible first uh state championship game that went right down to the wire. You've got the was it vaulting, was she leaping into the end zone? Was it clear? Was it not a touchdown? Was it uh to kind of end that game? And I was like, this is awesome. Uh because when I coached boys' football, we ran the midline a little bit and it was not intellectually stimulating. I did not enjoy it. Uh and so uh, you know, we kicked, we we threw it around on the ninth grade team quite a bit. Um, sometimes that got me in trouble with Coach Turner. Uh, but I I definitely I liked what I saw. I liked the opportunities for it. Uh so reached out to Coach Turner and he was like, don't ever bring this up to me again. And so that was the end of it. And then we had about a hundred girls in our school that reached out saying that they wanted to do flag football that spring. They wanted to that, well, they didn't want to do it that spring. They wanted to start a program and they reached out that spring. So coach comes back to me and he's like, hey, are you still interested in in flag? And I'm like, Yeah, you know, this it was amazing. I'd I'd like to be a part of it. And he's like, Okay, you're the head coach. And I was like, whoa now, easy hard charger. Yes, we gotta we gotta check with with Amber, uh, my my beautiful and wonderful wife, to make sure she'll allow. And he's like, she'll definitely allow you to do it. I was like, okay. Um what's what's one more story? Yeah, exactly. Um, and so I I think the thing that sold her was I have two daughters. Um, and both of them have been able to play in our middle school program. Uh, my oldest daughter, Audrey, is incredibly talented. Um, and she's pursuing the fine arts a little bit more now, but she's a great runner. She's super fast, she's taller than me. Uh, and then my little one, Scarlett, is in our middle school program now. She'll be in eighth grade next year. And to be able to have those conversations and be on the field with them, I think really is what got me the most interested because I didn't think I was ever going to get to coach my girls. Um, and to have that opportunity um was just, you know, it's a blessing. And I wanted to, I wanted that chance. I wanted them to see kind of what dad does that pulls him away so much. Um, and I think that, you know, being a a coach's wife, kid is is not easy. I mean, you hear things in the stands, um you uh you you live with us through victories and through uh defeats. Um and I think that it's uh I wanted them to get to to see what dad was like on the field. Uh and I wanted to to try. To be a coach and to be a person that's going to make them proud. Um, and so that was something that was really important to me. And then that first year, I mean, it was magic. I mean, it was magic. Um, you know, we knew Coach Schmidt, uh, who was a great dear friend of mine who was at BT as a uh a championship level soccer coach, and then she left and then came back. Um, and she came back the year we started Flag, and I was still on the fence a little bit about it, and they were like, well, Coach Schmidt's coming back, and she said she would do Flag. I was like, if she's in, I'm in. Um, and it's been an incredible partnership ever since. And I remember the first day we had tryouts, I couldn't even get a schedule. I mean, nobody wanted to play us. Uh, you know, it was we had people dropping us, we had a region schedule. We only played three non-region games that year, but only one before we started region because I couldn't get anybody to schedule us. Um, and so now if there why why is that?

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Is it is it well there weren't why was that? Well, why did you have trouble getting there weren't that many teams back then?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Um, and so I think that a lot of people we came on late. I mean, we decided this, like I said, in the spring. So it was after that March date. So we came on board in April. Uh, spring break time is about when we decided that we would do it. And so a lot of people's schedules were full. I think other people didn't know if we were going to be any good as a first-year program. Uh, and so they were probably trying to find better opponents. And so our first opponent was, of course, Pope. Uh, and um, you know, first play, we have a do-over because we jump off sides on defense, they jump offsides on offense. The White Hat blows the whistle, it was just like, we're just gonna reset. We're just gonna reset. You know, we were joking with Kevin one time. I was like, you know, look at what it's become. I mean, from that time, we're both looking across the field at each other, like, what are we gonna do? I don't know. Um, and so I I think that uh, you know, it was it was really unique. Uh, but that first practice, the first day of tryouts, it was pouring down rain. Um, and we didn't complete a single pass, but we had 36 girls out. And I looked at uh Coach Schmidt afterwards and I was like, I don't know that we're gonna be able to complete a pass this year, but I don't know that a lot of people are gonna score on us because we have some incredible athletes. Um and so we kind of started thinking that we were gonna be a very defensive-minded team. And of course, as the weather got better, we had a very good offense and were able to have success. But that year, I remember we beat Grayson in the uh Elite Eight at Grayson uh to go. And I looked at her and I was like, I don't know. I don't know. This is weird. What we didn't know what to expect. I remember Coach Scherner looked at me at one time midseason. I think at the time we were undefeated, or we were, I don't know, we'd lost one game maybe. And he was like, So are we gonna be pretty good? And I was like, I have no idea. I don't know what else is out there. I was like, we're doing pretty well right now. I I think we match up well, uh, but I just wasn't sure. Um, and it was it was different because it was harder to get filmed back then. I remember we played, we played the first two rounds at South for Scythe. We had one day, and then we played Grayson at Grayson in the Elite Eight. So it was a Tuesday, Thursday. And I remember we put in our game plan because on the uh the day that we could have practiced, I actually didn't have any film. And so I was breaking down film to like three o'clock in the morning that night. We installed the game plan in the bleachers, and Grayson, I brought a whiteboard and we're drawing things up, and it was just it was different. Um, and the kids executed really well. Um, and it was just a fun, magical ride. And from there, we had just all kinds of enthusiasm. We had a multi uh a multi-year state championship, lacrosse team. We had the same kind of thing in soccer, and then all of a sudden, our best athletes wanted to talk flag football. And we had 106 girls come out the next year uh for tryouts.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

So, so hold hold on. Yeah, let me let me go back to the to the start. So a hundred, a hundred or so, it's like a grassroots effort from the from the prospective players, a hundred or so, to get a flag program going. That's that's that's different from what I've heard. Uh, and I ask this question every time I talk to someone, how did your program get started? And I don't think I've heard, well, we had a hundred girls who said they wanted to play football, so we needed to have a team.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah, it was incredible. It was incredible. I think we didn't have a choice, we had to do it. Um, and it's probably the best thing that we've ever done. Um, it's definitely the best thing I've ever done uh in in my career. Um, you know, it's been the most rewarding, the most fulfilling. And I hope that our players feel the same way. Um, you know, going into that second year, we had some incredible athletes that are playing at high level. And then all of a sudden, we added in your Clark Hamilton, who's uh scored 55 goals this year at the University of Florida in lacrosse. She joins in. Jacqueline Johns, who was the Patriot League Defensive Player of the Year, uh, and they're both getting ready for the NCAAs. I was texting back and forth with them last night, wishing them luck on Friday in their first round games. She joined up. Um, and then we add in some of what we had. We added in Ava Ragetz, and then all of a sudden we were really, really talented to go there. And, you know, sometimes timing's everything, right? So we had a softball player named Julia Geis, and we had a quarterback, and Julia did not come out to for tryouts with everybody else. She just was going to come out later because she was playing softball in the varsity. And um, she comes up to me at open house. So we're we we have three games left in the regular season in playoffs. She comes to me and she's like, hey coach, you know, I'd like to try out. And this, by the way, is at open house. So she's an ambassador for our school. So she's showing people around and giving tours. I'm running a table with flag football and baseball to introduce people to our school. And she comes up to me in the middle of it and is like, I think I want to try out because softball just ended this week. And I was like, Well, you know, uh Julia, I really appreciate it. But um, you know, we were kind of close to the end. We got a lot of stuff going on. Definitely would love for you to come out and play next year because there was we didn't do anything in the summer um or anything like that. And she was like, Oh, okay, coach, because she's like the nicest kid ever. And then one of our other players comes up and goes, Coach, that's QB1 next year. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, she can absolutely sling it. And so I walked up to her and I was like, Hey Julia, why don't you come out to practice tomorrow and let's do a tryout. Let's just see how it goes. And then we actually had, because remember, I said we could only get the one game at the beginning that was non-regent. So we had two non-region games against Denmark and Pace, and then we had the playoffs. So I was like, she had two days of practice, and I was like, Julia, you're starting against Denmark. Uh and she's like, Kurtz, what are you talking about? And I'm like, we're gonna run four plays. That's it. You're gonna run these four plays, but you can you can throw the football. I mean, you're better than I ever was at throwing the football. She could spin it, and she left our program throwing for 110 touchdown passes. Uh, she had success. She never looked back. We actually had to uh she had to play in the playoffs um due to our starting quarterback not being able to go in the uh Elite Eight game. So she led us to a victory in the Elite Eight and finished our second round game as well, and then was our state championship quarterback the next year.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

So that that's it's really interesting to me because it's and I'd just like to get your your take on this. Uh, you know, coming from coaching sports that aren't flag football, and flag football is very unique on learning in the in the aspect that um this is the star. It's filled with multi-sport athletes. You know, football, you've got a lot of a lot of football players play other things, but there are there are players who they only play football, that's all they want to do. Same with baseball, same with basketball. I haven't come across many examples in high school flag where it's where the multi sport athletes aren't the majority of the team. That is a unique characteristic of the flag game. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, that's that's I just hear that from everybody. It's multi-sport, and so you have to make accommodations to get athletes.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, and I at Blessed Trinity, we only have 400 girls in the whole school. Um, and so we have to have multi-sport athletes. Uh, our baseball players need to play basketball, they need to play football, um, they need to be involved with other things. Our our female lacrosse players need to do things. I mean, Hannah Daly's a great point. You know, Hannah's one is one of the best receivers in the country, in my opinion. And um she's the toughest kid I've ever coached. But she would wake up in the morning, she's going to Navy to play lacrosse next year. She'd wake up in the morning at 4:30, she'd work out, she'd go to school, she'd go to rigorous classes all day. Then she would come to practice. We're done by five every day. Then she would go uh and do lacrosse training or lacrosse, rinse, repeat. Then she was on our varsity swim team, and then she is our superstar, all-American lacrosse player as well. Uh Addy Spack, our quarterback. Before we played Greenbrier in the Corky Kell, we had one practice with Addy. One. Uh because she's starting shortstop on the softball team. Um, and so, you know, again, I think that that's where you have to look to be creative to make things happen. But when we started this, Coach Schmidt and I talked, and we were like, we are not going to be an impediment to anyone. And that's the first thing that I say in any one of our meetings. If you have club soccer, if you have club lacrosse, if you have AAU basketball, come talk to me. As long as you communicate, it's fine. Uh, Addison Wickramesakara, who had two interceptions for us in the state finals, came to practice one day a week this year uh because of high-level soccer. Um, but she's a great cornerback. Um, and we were able to make it work, and she worked really hard. And I would rather have her for one day a week uh at the level that she played than not have her as part of our program. So I think you do have to be that. It's also girls are pliable, um, you know, they're flexible, uh, they're willing to try things. Um, sometimes with my boys, it's like pulling teeth to get them to do something else. Um, but uh with the the girls, they're like, give me more, let me try this. And I think once you start to get a taste of flag, it really gets into you and you want to do it more.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Yeah, that that's what it seems like. And and I my prediction is that um a lot of girls who have flag as sort of their second or third sport in a couple years, it's gonna be their number one. Um and and I think so. Coach Frazier, he you know, he he said something very similar. You know, he said uh he was talking about a player who who came to him before the season, and this was you know a really good player that they needed in the program. And uh she told him, I I have to be at these other games. Uh, I'm gonna miss seven of our flag games. And he said, Okay, we can work with that because I know it. It's not, you know, you're not coming to me on Thursday of a game and saying, hey, oh yeah, I'm not, I gotta go to a softball thing tonight. Um so as long as he knows it, he said, we can deal with that. And then he said, Yeah, I didn't have her for 17 games, but guess what? I had her for 15 games, which is more than seven. So I got more of her um than than I didn't, and willing to willing to work with that. And I think that that's sort of the theme, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:32

And he also had her for the most important games.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Um, you know, the ones in the playoffs leading to a state championship. Um, and also that gives opportunities for other kids as well. Uh so those seven games where she wasn't available, uh, or when we, you know, we had uh where Addison wasn't able to be there, or um, you know, some of our other players were able to be there, it gave them a great opportunity for other kids to get involved and get to play because only seven can be on the field at the at one time, and it is a fast game.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah, yeah, it really is. And that's you know, the multi-sport aspect, I think, is just is in my mind one of the defining characteristics of the game. It's very, very different. And again, if you've if you've been around high school sports or coached for for a while, um, other sports aren't like that. You know, it's it's hey, we are your priority, you're gonna be here. And flag, I don't think you can be like that. I don't think you're gonna be able to feel the team if you if you have that black and white hard stance of nope, you're here or you're nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

I definitely think even if you do feel the team, it's not gonna be as good of a team as what you could possibly have. Um, I think there's a lot of ways to do it. I think there's ways to do it right. I think that, you know, our other sports have learned as well in the way our conversation. I, you know, I'm also very lucky because our softball coach, Coach Harrison, our volleyball coach, Coach Woodward, uh, and then our basketball coach, Roundtree here are such good people and they want what's in the best interest of the kids. I I look back at my high school experience. The only thing I regret is the sports I didn't play. Um, I never regret getting out there and playing. Um I just wish I would have done it more because, as we both know, at some point somebody's gonna tell you you can't do it anymore. Um, and whether that's at the end of, you know, I was talking to Jose Contreras, our pitching coach, who played in the major leagues for 12 years and played on the Cuban national team, and he was talking about how he had Tommy John surgery and he was in his early 40s, and somebody was like, Do you think you can do it? He's like, Of course I want to do this some more. Uh, because, but eventually you get to a point where you can't. Uh, and so, you know, playing while you can and getting that team experience, getting that special thing. Because I think also for some kids, it lag may be the first time that they've experienced adversity in sports, uh, because they've been doing something since they were four and they've been really good at it, or they are really good at it, and now they're doing something that doesn't come completely natural to them. Catching a football may be something that's different. They may have exceptional hand-eye coordination, but they're gonna have to work at it a little bit. And they're also with kids from other sports that are bringing attributes that maybe they're not comfortable with. And how can we formulate that together and make something truly special? I was actually talking with one of our former players when she was back visiting during her college spring break, and she was telling me that through Flag, she got to know at a different level some girls that she would never have associated with, other than just passing in the hallway uh because of the connection that they were able to make. And they played such very different sports and had such very different schedules. Um, but I think that's the thing that that people are realizing when they get in. It's there's there's a lot of magic to it.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah, and and ultimately, let's you know not forget the the purpose of all of this, it's to give young athletes more opportunities. And flag football is the definition of more opportunities right now. Um and so yeah, the you want to encourage them, do as much as you, you know, as much as you can and still be the student athlete you want to be. Um but take advantage of those of those opportunities and us at you know, as the adults around flag football, don't let's not get in the way of that. That's the whole purpose is to give them opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Sure. And I think also within our program, we talk about failure a lot and and and how it's okay. Uh we want them to learn, we want them to grow, and we don't harp on failure. We learn from failure. Um, and I think that's a lesson, once again, on something that maybe isn't easy for them, that is going to be hard, that maybe they're an exceptional athlete, but that it's going to take a little bit of time for them to be successful. I mean, that's a great lesson in for them in life. Um, you know, when they're doing something that's uncomfortable, uh, when they're doing something that maybe they just doesn't come very naturally to them, but it's what they have to do to be successful or it's what they have to do for their family.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah, and and that, you know, that that um persevering through adversity is a is a big element, and and focusing on that from what I've seen is a big element in successful programs of their culture. Um, a culture of thriving through adversity and acknowledging it and anticipating that you will have adversity, not not being surprised by adversity. And those are just some aspects of programs, I think that they really get it right in their culture.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

So with that, we'll try to practice it.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

What's that?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

And I said we try to practice it. Uh we try to practice. Don't run from it. Yeah. I mean, we try to say, what are you gonna do? There's a minute 38 left on the clock in the state finals, and you've got to go the length of the field against Milton. How are we gonna respond to that? What is the most important thing in your universe at that moment? Um, and I hope if you asked Addy, our quarterback, she would have been complete the first pass. Complete the first pass, see who's open, execute the pass, and then we move to the next one, and then we move to the next one. But part of that was, I mean, you know, getting ready for the playoffs, we put nine girls on defense against her. Um, and we would flood zones with defenders. We would throw in extra rushers, bringing three or four at her uh to try to help her get ready for simulating heart rate, simulating uh, what do I do when something's not there? And I think that it uh, you know, it paid off uh when we needed it to really pay off for us.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah, and while you can't train for every specific situation of adversity that might come up, you can train so it doesn't surprise you. And so you expect, I know that something is going to get in my way. And when that happens, I'm not gonna be surprised by it.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Well, and I think you can also train heart rate. You can train some anxiety. Um, you can train, you know, my brain doesn't work because my heart's beating a little bit faster. My, you know, the dopamine is flying, uh, my cortisol levels are up a little bit, uh, and I want to do so well. You know, I feel that pressure. I think you can train that uh to and talk through it. Um, you know, I'm a counselor at the school, so we we talk about this stuff a lot on what does that look like? And then how do you respond when your brain doesn't work at 100%? And then how do you slow it down so that your brain will operate at closer to 100% of normal capacity? Uh, because I think that's the thing that that gets people is, you know, you can ask somebody when they're in a pressure situation, they're hitting, why did you freeze on strike three? I don't know. I really wanted to do it. I really wanted to do it. I think if you go back and you look through their batting gloves with an x-ray, you'd see white knuckles. You'd see pressure.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

And then their brain stops. They don't recognize like they normally do. And then it doesn't become muscle memory of something they have done thousands and thousands and thousands of times. And so I think that's what we try to do is we try to build muscle memory in pressure situations.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

So I I'm gonna I'm gonna go off the the the topic that I've the topics that I'm going on my my list here because I said something there that's really interesting, and and I don't I I truly want to to find an answer to this. What do you do in your practices? Or what what what things can you do to best simulate those types of situations? Sure, you can set up the situation, but like you said, getting that heart rate going, getting that anxiety going, getting that nervous system kind of juiced up. How do you do that in practice? One of the one of the issues I always run into uh coaching tackle is when I'm running a drill and it's a competitive drill, and we really want to amp up the competition and amp up the situation. But every player knows when they run their their rep of the drill, where are they going? They're gonna go get back in the line to run it again. So there's not really anything on the line there for them to lose. They can lose that rep, but they get to they get another chance at it. So what do you what can coaches do for that?

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Yeah, so what we talk about is with reps, is it's either a rep or it's not a rep. Um, you know, one of my favorite coach uh quotes is from that great philosopher Yoda do or do not, there is no try. And so I tell my players there's no such thing as a half rep. There's no such thing as a walkthrough. Um, we are going hard all the time, all the time. Whether it's on air or against the defense, we are going hard all the time. And we do our two minute drills, we do our late game situations at the very end of practice after we have gone through everything else, and then we snap it on there. And they know we'll throw in different things. Like there'll be times where I say, we're not stopping the clock, or we're going against maybe. We're going against air, and I'll be like, you just got sacked, and we've got to get this play in and you've got to go. Or we'll then take our best receiver and put her on defense and be like, hey, listen, you don't have her anymore. What are we going to do? What are we going to do at this time to try to make them think through different situations? If somebody takes away five, what are you going to do? Uh, and then also trying to create a competitive atmosphere where it's like everybody on practice knows that when we're doing things and we're doing scout, it's not just to give us a look. It's it's to compete. It's to compete. You're competing for playing time, uh, and you're also trying to make it better. Uh, and you know, we try to make practice better than games. We go hard because they know what we're gonna do. And they'll sometimes the the girls will be like, well, they know what play we're running. I'm like, okay, good. That makes it harder. So let's then let's execute. If we can execute and they know what we're running, then that's gonna help us. That's gonna help us uh be better. Play the play on offense or defense. Uh, and then we just try to create an atmosphere where it's also player-driven. Uh, we want our players to be able to talk to one another and to lift each other up and encourage one another and create competition where they're maybe talking some trash back and forth to each other when we're doing some of these situations. Can the number twos stop the number ones and they win the two-minute drill that time? And then, you know, we we talk about what that's gonna look like. If we're in this situation and we don't execute, what can we take from it? What what and so we try constantly are trying to process because we practice from 3:30 to 5 every day. And we had this year, um, we had two practices with the entire team together the entirety of the season. Um, and I think it's a credit to our girls. Uh, just they're incredible. Uh, they're incredible. I learn from them every day. Uh, I was talking to our running back yesterday, and I told her, I said, you make me a better coach. Um, just with the way that you bring uh stuff to practice. You know, what you do in practice makes me better. Um, and I think it makes everybody else better. So, what do we do to kind of increase that heart rate? Is we go at each other. Um, and we also talked, I can't remember where I heard this. Um, I read it in a book somewhere, I know that's shocking, but I read it in a book. Um, and it was a quote by um, I believe it was an army ranger, and he said that the best soldiers are the ones that um fight for the the brother beside them and not for the enemy in front of them. Um and so I'm paraphrasing that a little bit. Uh so we talk about how we're we're playing a nameless, faceless opponent anytime we play. Um, we are playing the game, but we're playing for each other more than anything else. And so we try to build that. Um, and I think that that spirit of not worrying about what's happening uh also hopefully creates an atmosphere where these girls are feeling like, hey, if I make a mistake, somebody else has me and we're gonna execute. And it's not just me, it's the ghosts of Titans past that are gonna help me too. And I'm not a I'm not gonna scream and yell at them if they make a physical mistake. I'm just not gonna do that. Um I had coaches that would yell at me for striking out, and no one felt worse about striking out than me. You didn't try to strike me out. If if they if they drop a pass, I know they feel bad about dropping a pass. I'm not gonna get on them for that. Uh, and so I want them to also feel free um to make mistakes. Uh, and I also apologize to them when I make mistakes. Um, I felt like I owed them an apology after the Milton game. Uh and so we corrected it. And I think that that made it better uh as we went forward. And I also think, too, I have people in our program in Coach Oshinsky and Coach Schmidt that I trust. Um, and that will tell me when they see something, and it and I am 100% open to their viewpoints. Um, you know, I'm I know I'm wrong. Uh you know, I'm I I I am. And sometimes in a game, I I looked at Coach O in the state finals and he saw something that we could exploit on offense, and I was like, you know, I didn't see that, and that's great. And so we told our quarterback and we were able to move the chains and keep that prolific offense off the field a little bit more. It wasn't always what it wasn't always that we scored, it was breaking a rhythm for them uh and hopefully allowing us to get into a rhythm as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

So it it sounds like the the uh the coach Harwell BT method of of injecting competitive competitiveness game-like situations in into practices is to be intentional about it. You know, I just I was just taking some notes while you're writing. Intentional, removing fear, accountability from the coaches. And I think the intentional part, I mean, certainly, just if that's part of that has to be part of your culture. It has to be baked into your culture that we are going to compete in everything we do. And if you do that right, then you don't have to come up with things on the practice field to make that happen artificially. It's going to happen. But then the other piece you you talked about, uh, and I wrote it down as removing fear, removing fear of mistakes. Um, and I think when when athletes can play free and play intuitively, um, of course they're gonna make mistakes probably more than half the time, but it allows them to play fast and it allows them to focus on their competitive posture. Um, so I think I think you know, to coaches out there listening to this, I mean, I think that's that's kind of as close to a silver bullet answer as you can get to the to the question, which is you have to be intentional about building that into your program and then remove the fear for your players so they will take those risks.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, and I think one of the things that I learned that we've tried to do in pressure situations is um, you know, learn from other coaches that are really good. I listened to something Kirby Smart said. I can't remember if it was 21 or 22, um, but he talked about, you know, attacking pressure with gratitude. Um, and I think back, yeah, and we talk about this a lot, that whenever you're feeling bad, it's it's hard to feel bad when you're doing something for somebody else. Um, and you're grateful for the moment. So I, you know, we had someone that came to speak at our school and he talked about arrows out um and not necessarily always arrows in. And so we talk a lot about arrows out. Uh, we talk about gratitude. I mean, I think that really paid off um in the state tournament, not only just in the state finals, but in some other games as well. I mean, we did not have uh, we were down a starter in the quarters in the semis because she had a 103 fever at home. And she reached out to the girls before the game and was like, y'all got this. I'll see you at practice when I can get there. Um, and I think that meant a lot. We faced a lot of adversity down at Thomas County Central. Um, you know, and the girls rose to that. And, you know, one of the things that we talked about was kind of that having that what uh Coach Smart talked about, that gratitude. Um, we're grateful to be in this position. We are grateful to be together for one more day. I would tell our girls, um, the fact is the greatest gift that they can give me as a coach is not just getting to the state finals. It's giving me every practice that the state of Georgia allows us to have. And at the end of that last practice, I tell them, thank you. Um, and the games are for them and practice is for me because practice is what I remember. Those conversations, uh, the stretch line stuff. I learned so much about my players from those experiences. Um and, you know, then when we are in a pressure situation, you know, we'll sit there and be like, man, isn't this cool? It's cool that we're here. It's cool that we get to play for something. It's cool that this means something. You know, we could be playing somewhere else and it not matters as much, but it matters, and that's pretty special. And so that's the way that we also attack uh pressure. And that is something that's intentional, not just in practice, but also in our team talks, because we do team talks in practice as well. Um, as you can tell, I like to talk.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Oh man, that's that's great stuff. Uh yeah, I think, and I think I've heard uh Coach Smart he he the phrase he uses is pressure as a privilege, which is could not be more true. If you're in a pressure situation, it's because you've done something to earn that situation. And I say earn as a positive word. You've earned the right to be in that pressure situation. There's a lot of people out there who aren't under pressure in a situation because they didn't do enough to earn it. Uh, and that pressure is a privilege, I think, is a really powerful, uh powerful statement.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

And I think it's hard, especially with ours, you know, this multi-sport athlete. You have to do mental training. You have to talk about situations, you have to talk about failure. What happens when? Because, like I said, we're on the practice field for an hour and a half a day, and they're doing so much else. Um, and so we have to find ways to get our game plan in. We have to find ways to be successful without being on the field. And part of that I think is mental reps.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Yeah, so we're kind of we're kind of touching into your the the culture that that you've got in the program. So let's let's go ahead and pivot into that. Um how would you describe the culture of the flag program at at Blessed Trinity?

SPEAKER_01 54:15

It it's amazing. Um, you know, I think that uh I can honestly say this in the five years, there's not one day that I have not wanted to be at practice. Um or not wanted, everybody loves games, uh, but I genuinely look forward to being out there. And I think that we try to keep things fresh, we try to do different things, we try to cross-train, we cross-train a lot. Um, but also, you know, we try to give our players opportunities. Like I remember earlier this year, we did like almost a 30-minute stretch because our players were connecting so well with each other that we just sat back and waited. Um, and I think that the, like you just said, pivot onto something else. I think that that's something that I want to do. When something is happening that's going to build us and make us closer together as a team, it's time to pivot. Nothing that I can talk about in Scout is going to be more important than our players connecting and then a belief. Um, because I thought one thing, and I did not realize it during the game, but when we had that interception there at the end, all of our players ran to the sideline as quickly as they could to connect with each other. And the bench was there and everybody was there. And then we were talking about what we needed to do on offense, but they sprinted off the field together uh to get to their teammates. Uh, and that's what we want. Um, when we won it the first time, uh, you know, we were we went double overtime again. I don't know what it is. Maybe that's good. I hope every time we get to go into double overtime in the state finals. Um, but uh, you know, the first time we had a young lady that did not play a tremendous amount during the year, and we were down at the end. And uh Coach Nixon, as always, made a great adjustment and was exploiting something that we were doing on defense. And so we put in a defense right then that we had not run the entire season, and we put her in a spot to do it. And because she had worked, and because she had that attitude, and because her teammates had a belief in her, she actually made two monstrous plays that put us in a position to win it in double overtime. Um, and it was a, you know, we talk about that. Every year I bring up her and I bring up the selflessness that she exhibited throughout the season. Of course, she wanted to be playing more. Um, I wouldn't want her to play if she didn't want to play more. But she did everything she needed to, and she showed up and was prepared. Um, because you know, we both coached. We've been there where you put somebody in and they're not ready, right? They're not ready and they get exploited. She was ready, and she was ready at the very last day after not playing a tremendous amount throughout the season and not having played probably in six, five or six weeks, um, not seeing the field. Um, and I think that is that's culture. Um, I think the other thing is I'll go back to our first year. Um, we had a linebacker, Francesca, who was playing. Uh, we were winning a game, game was over. Uh, it was gonna be a mercy rule, and uh it was 19 and nothing, so it was the clock was gonna run out. There were three minutes left in the game, or maybe four minutes left in the game. The other team had the ball, and then one of our backups had an injury, and so she looked like she may have pulled her hamstring. It ended up not being that, but she needed to come out of the game. And so I'm starting to put someone in, and Francesca's like, I got it, coach. And so she runs in. She was a really important player for us. She's actually playing club flag football at Georgia right now. And um, high-level soccer player, just incredible athlete. And so they run a trick play for us or against us, and they throw it over, and one of our backups gets burnt, right? Steps up a little bit at safety, and just the girl gets over the top barely, but she's gone. So Francesca's in her position about 20 yards away on the other hash, and she just turns and puts her head down and takes off. Uh, once again, the game's over. Even if they score, I mean, we're gonna kneel it out. You know, they at the time you only had two timeouts, uh, so and so you couldn't do anything. And even if they would have, I mean, we would have had to turn the ball over twice for the game. The game's over. And she chases her down on the five-yard line. And I turned around and looked at Coach Smith, and I was like, there is something really special going on here. She just ruined that little wonder. I was like, well, and I looked at her and I asked her, I said, Hey, what's going on? You know, what are you doing? And she was like, they don't get in our end zone, coach. And I said, I love you. And then she also said she she looked at the safety who'd made the play, and she's like, I'm picking her up. And I was like, players are the best coaches. Players are the best coaches, and I show that play at the beginning of every see, see me, I'm tearing up right now. I'm tearing up right now because that's what it means to me and what it means to our program, uh, you know, and what we want to see. And so every year at the beginning of the season, I show that play and I show a couple of other plays that our kids have made that weren't touchdowns, that weren't huge, but what it was was it was sacrifice and it was culture. Um, and you know, and that goes into the videos about leaving the jersey better than you found it. Those things are important. Um, you know, before, you know, we're driving 15 hours to Thomas County Central this year, and I'm hearing from alums pulling for you. Uh, one of them was on a beach, and she sent me a picture of her and her mom on the beach getting ready to watch the game on NFHS. Uh, you know, it ended up not being on NFHS because of we got moved inside and all that, which was amazing. They've got an unbelievable facility down there. But then she was following it and she was reaching out from the beach in, I don't know, it was Cabo or something like that. She was reaching out to our athletic trainer to get updates uh on our flag football team. Um, and so I think that that kind of thing shows that something's working. Um, and I think that it's the willingness, it's not me, it's not Brandon Harwell, it's not Lizzie Schmidt, it's not Josh Oshinsky, even though I think we do a good job and we work at it, it's our players. And it's our players communicating with one another, connecting with one another, um, and you know, walking together. Uh, you know, we talk about that. We talk about also how they need to have the other areas of their lives right. Uh, we tell them that we want them to be the best daughter that they can, we want them to be the best student that they can, the best friend that they can. Because if something's not right in that, it's gonna bleed over into what we're doing in that hour and a half. And so if there is an obstacle that's creating some difficulties for them, we want them to be able to talk to us or talk to their teammates about that so that we can, and I think that's the benefit of being at a Catholic school where we can pray for one another. We can pray for the things going on in our lives uh together. Um, you know, it and I've seen it even in my own life. I remember when we won the state championship, uh, my wife's father was in the process of passing away. And I didn't know if I was gonna be at every game. Um, and I remember praying with our team for him every day. Uh, and it, you know, all of that, it meant a lot to me. Uh, and I think it bonds us together uh when we do things like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

So I the the impression I'm getting is it's uh a lot of responsibility for upholding that culture, maybe not explicitly, but goes on to the players. It sounds like the very player-led.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

It has to be. It has to be. Um, you know, you've been around sports uh for a long time. I've been around sports for a long time. And anything that is just coach driven is not going to be successful. Or if it is, it's it's temporary. Um if you want something that's gonna last, it has to be something that the players have ownership in. And I also want to make sure that I'm listening to my players. Um, if they come to me in the middle of the game and are like, hey, I think we need to look at this, well, let's look at it. It doesn't mean that we're necessarily going to call that on the next play. But if Hannah comes to me and says, hey, I'm open on this, we're going to come back to it. Uh or I'll ask her, I'll ask Addy, where can we make an adjustment? What can we do? And I remember one time we scored a touchdown. I looked smart, and it wasn't me at all. It was something that they communicated with one another. We had a play, and then they just rolled it and she went deep. And they bit up on it. She saw that they had bitten up on it. They had been biting up on it. She did it. That was all them. And I think that that is uh that's a culture win. That's a culture game, that's a culture success, uh, because they knew that it was okay for them to take a chance. Uh, if you're gonna make a mistake, make it big. Um, you know, yeah, go all out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

That that's what that's what I always say is if you if you're gonna mess up, which you are, mess up fast. Be speedy Gonzalez when you mess up, and I can handle that. Uh, sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

Mistakes happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

How about yeah, that's right. Because you you think too much. And when you think too much, we're human beings. When we think too much, we're probably gonna make the wrong choice. Uh just as opposed to human nature, right? We owe we're overthinkers by nature. What um what role do leaders play on your team? The player leaders.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

So, yeah, we don't have captains. Um, we have uh, you know, we always thank and our seniors for everything that they're doing. Um, but I want every player to understand that they're a leader in this team and that they have buy-in and they have accountability. Uh, and if they see something, they need to say something. Um, and everybody's gonna be different, and we all bring such different traits to the table. I have strengths, Coach Smith has strengths, Coach O has strengths. We all work together and we balance each other. And same thing with our players. I don't want them to feel like they have to go to a captain that has to go to me. I feel like I want them all to know that they can communicate. And also sometimes it's a captain that needs to be held accountable. The captain needs to be talked to. Uh, and so we try to let all of our players feel like leaders and understand that this is their team. Um and you know, that's just what's worked for us. We've never done captains in baseball either. Um, and so essentially all I do for game day is I rotate the seniors. So we just rotate them through. But we don't have permanent captains or anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

Yeah, I I've always uh, and I you know I would tell any coach this just just run an experiment during in the early stages of of of a season. Don't name any captains, don't uh you know, don't treat players as leaders yet, and just watch and see what happens. Step back and just watch. You You have leaders. You have a lot of leaders, probably. Uh, you may not know who they are yet until you just step back and watch. Because the the team, their teammates, are the ones who are going to tell you that this is a leader. The player's not going to tell you that, or if they do, they're probably blowing smoke for themselves. But watch how the other the rest of the team responds to these players, and that's going to tell you your leaders. And so you don't have to name a leader. Leaders lead. Um, so just curious. I'm I mean, I you know, and I know that's that's my experience anyway. Um, you know, both in sports and and military. You know, that that was a big part of the military was leadership, and um you don't have to have a rank on your collar to lead someone, and you don't have to be called a team captain to lead someone. Um, and some teams, you know, some programs put a lot on their player leaders and some don't. And so that's kind of where the question was coming from. You know, do you do you lean on your players as sort of uh your helpers almost?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Yeah, uh, yeah, at times. Um, but I also want to be cognizant of everything that they have going on in life. Um, and so what I try to do is create discussion opportunities for them with me and with our coaches um about what they're seeing and what's going on. And then uh, you know, when we start doing install, I remember uh I saw, you know, back, I don't know if you ever coach basketball, but those old Nike clinics, I mean, I remember listening to Coach Bill Self and Coach Roy Williams, and I'm like, you're around greatness. I mean, I'm I'm like filling up notepads. Um, and I I remember something that Roy Williams said. He was like, I got all these assistants, practice is mine. And so, you know, and so I think one of the things that I do is when we start doing install, I'm talking a lot, I'm moving pieces around, and then I'm talking to our players. And a lot of times with our assistant coaches, I'll be like, What am I missing? What did I not see when we're doing team? You know, and they're they're really intuitive. Like they'll walk up to me and they'll be like, hey, I'm watching, I'm gonna watch how do our rushers respond right here? What are we seeing? And I'll be watching like linebackers, and then Coach O will be watching, you know, DBs. Uh, and so we'll communicate that way. But then as we're doing install, we'll call it AP flag football. And so uh because we don't have things, I do videos, uh, one to three minute videos of different things, different concepts. And then I'll ask our players about it. If you see this, what do you do? If motion goes away from you on defense, what do you do? And then, you know, you'll see hand shoot up. And I'm like, go. Uh, and so we do, we we communicate that way. So I lean on them for that. Like, if we're missing something, I'll go back to our players and I'll be like, hey, is what we're doing too complicated? Is it being communicated well? How could we communicate it more effectively? Um, and that was part of the reason. At first, I would do like a big video, and then I need small videos. So we started, and that was something that the players gave me back. Small videos so they can watch it real fast and then move on to something else. Or if they need to know one thing, they can go back to it and chunk it. So I try to do that for different situations. Uh, and then also just with our players, too, you know, especially when our offense evolves, evolves. We went through about 10 different wristbands throughout the course of the year. Um, and so I'll always check in with them like, was this good? Was this not good? What did you like? What didn't you like? I'll ask Addy, our quarterback, what fit your eye, what didn't fit your eye? What do we need to take out? And then um, you know, I think that's one of the things that I learned from Coach McFarlane, who's at Georgia Tech right now, who was a football coach that I also worked for here at BT as a play caller, never to be afraid. If you, if it, if it's the right play, it's the right play. Um, but you can call the wrong play and you execute it perfectly and things are good. So you just can't ever be afraid. And so I'm not afraid to change, I'm not afraid to fail, I'm not afraid to make mistakes. Um, and I understand I'm gonna make a lot of them. Uh, and so I try to talk to our players about that too. Like I went into them one time earlier this year, and we had a play and we had repped it, and I was like, it isn't working. We're scrapping it, it's out. I was like, we're gonna bring something else in. I was like, what do you think did what liked about the other stuff? And then let's build off of that. And so we did that. I think also you saw it on defense. Uh, I talked about this at the clinic, but we put our our defense in what we were gonna do against Milton the Friday before. We'd been practicing. Coach and I were talking, and we he had an aha moment. He shared it with me. I loved it, and then we put it on the board, and then we repped it, and then I sent it out to the uh, or Coach Schmidt sent it out to the girls, and then uh we started working it the next day and to put it in for Tuesday. And so uh once again, I was like, you know, we're just we're not gonna be afraid. If if it's right, it's right. And if it's not, it's not, and uh, you know, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Well, hey, we got another game next week. Yeah, well, in that one we wouldn't without another game next season. Doesn't always work. Doesn't always work. Uh I'll tell you what, one trick that I've that I've always really liked, and this is really a way to test players, um, particularly ones who are really, really integral to a game plan, is have them run an install themselves. You know, the the the best way to learn something is to teach something, and the best way to to to figure out if someone knows something is have them teach it to you. Uh, and I always thought that was a really good litmus test. Does, you know, does this these two or three players who are really a part of this game plan, do they understand this well enough to teach it to someone else? Uh and I always thought that, and it was always small stuff, you know, little little wrinkles or variations of of stuff we already did. But it was just a and it gave them also uh a sense of of leadership and a sense of uh coach trust me to teach others this this kind of stuff. Um and I think all that goes into you know to strong culture for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Oh, that's amazing. I I wrote that note down. We're gonna we're gonna steal that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

Yeah, especially quarterbacks, you know, because they they gotta know it. Um so we're coming up on time here. I do want to be respectful of of your time. I know you guys got a lot going on, you got AP testing and all that. Um Yeah. Let me look I always want to I always want to end off here talking about tangible things uh that that coaches listening can take away. Um what so for a new coach, you're an experienced coach, and you know you've experienced a lot of success, and I'm sure you've experienced failure. New coaches to the flag world, not new coaches to any sport, but to the flag world because it is unique. What's um anything come to mind? What's what's something that you would what's a piece of advice you would give to them in year one? Uh something to look out for, something to to uh you know to to strive for?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

Yeah. Uh I think the first thing I would do is, you know, once again, be curious. Um, you know, try to identify some coaching mentors that can really help you, um, that you can bounce ideas off of, um, that you can trust. Uh, I think also the multi-sport thing, be open to it. Try to find a way to get to know the other coaches in your school. Uh, try to find a way to make it work. Um, I think it'll make you better. Uh, and then, you know, there's a lot of great resources out there, uh, but there's a lot of great resources out there. So don't try to get too broad too quick. Um, figure something out. Uh, you know, have one defense that you do really, really well. And then maybe you can add to that, but do something really well and have uh an offensive system that is not formation dependent. Um, so if you run only one play out of this formation, it's not going to work for long. Um, you know, teams will be able to take that away. So try to find a system that works. Um Coach Sylvestri was down at the clinic that we had, um, and he talked about concepts. Um, I think that can really help you out offensively and defensively. Um, but I go back to find some people that have been successful or just that are really good people um that can talk to you about it. There's some unbelievable coaches that have not won a tremendous amount, but are doing a great job in their programs. And it's only a matter of time uh before they they kind of knock the doors off. Um so uh that would be what I would tell a new coach. Uh, that's the kind of stuff that was helpful to me. That's what worked uh for us. I relied on the experience that I had had, and then we made it work. And then, you know, like I said, I talked to Coach Cochran, who is one of my dear friends and just one of the best people you could ever want to meet. Uh, and she was so giving, um, her and her husband, Nick. So, I mean, again, you the worst someone can do is not respond to a text or an email. Yeah. Uh, you know, you're not out. I remember I reached out to a college coach one time because I had never coached outfielders before, and I played middle infield all my life, and I was trying to figure something out. I reached out to a Pac-12 school because I thought they were doing it really well. They played at this just monstrosity of a outfield. I was like, well, they cover ground, they gotta, they gotta know what they're doing. Never responded. Um, so I reached out to somebody else and they gave me some stuff. Um, and it it helped me better. And, you know, again, it's if if somebody isn't gonna be able to help you, um, then shame on them uh because there's gonna be a lot of people that that do. And then at the same time, remember the people that were and remember how you felt when people helped you so that when you get successful, that you turn around and help somebody else at start now as a coach or a program. Uh, you know, we're lucky in the state of Georgia because of how unbelievably generous the Atlanta Falcons and the Arthur Blank Family Foundation have been to us monetarily in allowing us to be able to start. And without them, I don't think it's possible for a lot of us to be able to do the things that we're able to do and to coach at the the level. I I can't say enough about the initiatives that they're doing and what you know Amanda Dinkel is doing down there uh as well with the outreach to other states, as well as the things that they're doing here. Um, and they've just been, I learned an incredible amount. One of the first things I did was went to one of the Falcons free clinics and I learned a ton. Um and I was like, wow, I thought I knew this. I didn't know anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

Well, it's I'm I'm glad you brought that up. Anyone out there who is listening to this right now, if you know anyone, any contacts in that uh NFL flag office who are doing that, I would love to have someone on uh to talk about how the NFL is supporting uh high school flag across the country because it is so important and it is the way that that a lot of teams, the only way that a lot of teams are um are spinning up a program is because of that support. And I would love to uh to talk about that with someone. So anyone out there who who has any contacts, uh reach out to me. So I got uh uh two more two more rapid fire. All right, offensive side of the ball. What's your favorite formation? You got you you can carry one formation into a game. What is it? And what's your what's your number one play out of that formation and why?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:14

Uh so I like to go twins motion to trips. Um, I like movement. Um, I think that it allows my quarterback to see things. Um, I it also allows me as a play caller to see how the defense responds. Uh, what is their shift, what is their movement, or do they not move at all? And then I love, so if I was twins and then we we motioned into trips right, I would throw a uh, I would go vertical, corner out and level it up. And on the corner, I would stop at about 12 yards, and then I would have the vertical carry, and then I'd try to put the line, uh, the linebacker and the cornerback in a bind, uh, and then hope that we're we're successful enough not to be able to allow the safety to get over the top.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:10

Love it. Levels, levels. One of those defenders is gonna be in the wrong spot.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:16

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love levels all over the field, and I love movement and uh I like moving my quarterback uh off the spot, off-platform throws. Uh, we did more this year from the pocket than we ever have just because we had such a great blocker and our quarterback was just she had a big arm. She was very uh she was good back there. Um, but if you watch us, you'll see a lot of movement. A lot of movement, um, a lot of getting people into space. And and then, you know, we we choice route. Um, you know, we try to give our receivers the opportunity to make plays.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:55

So say sim similar question on the defensive side of the ball. You're calling the defense on a game, you show up. What's the one formation or one play that you absolutely do not want to see that game?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:09

Oof, that's a tough one. Well, I think it's levels of motion. Yeah, whatever Pope is running. Um, I I think, you know, I don't know. Uh I feel like there's, you know, it's a chess match, right? Um, and so I don't know that there's anything really that I don't want to see. I don't want them to score a touchdown on the first play. Uh so I think that, you know, for us, we're probably gonna come out in a two-for-one, uh cover three. Um, and so if you've got a receiver that can get over the top, I don't want to see that. Uh, but I'm hopeful that our quarterbacks are gonna be good enough to stay there. Um yeah. I don't want you throwing the ball 15 yards downfield, back shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:00

You know, and and I I'm I uh have have been a defensive coach for most of my coaching time. So um a lot of times I I've been asked that question before, and and I I think my answer was uh I just want them to be where they need to be and to hold on and make a play. I don't really know what's coming, I don't really care what's coming. We're gonna we're gonna do our defense uh as a framework. So the play doesn't matter. The framework matters. And that that's I think that's how I I answered that at the time. But um your defense is such a different animal.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:32

You answered a lot better than I did.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:34

Well, well, I don't really know anything about offense.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:37

So no, I think you know it's it's good. I think everything is, you know, like you said, it's about efficiency. I mean, whatever, there's a way to adjust to everything, right? I mean, if if you're gonna run man-to-man against us, there's a way for us to exploit that. And it's on us to do it. If you're gonna run cover two against us, there's a way for us to exploit that, and we have to execute. Uh, we have to execute. And I think on defense, um, you know, uh our when I was a young defensive coach, I was learning from uh Ruff Hamilton, uh, who played the NFL, and he used to talk about how, you know, we don't want them to cover grass. Uh, and then if somebody's leaving your zone, somebody's coming into your zone. Uh, and so always, always, always just staying locked in on what your job is at that moment, uh, and staying present. And I think the the greatest players and the difference between people as they move up, whether it's ninth grade, JV, varsity, college, professional, I think it's not just consistency, it's about an ability to bounce back, uh, an ability to move on. And kids that don't have success that maybe have ability uh or coaches, it is the ability to move on from mistakes while learning from those. Uh, and I think that that is truly what uh separates great teams and great players from good teams and good players, or maybe even great programs from good programs are just people's ability to move on. Um and you know, the great ones can do that. Uh, and it's it's it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:25

Um Yeah, I but I agree. That's um, you know, being able being able to move on, short memory. Um, you know, it's okay to be uh to be dissatisfied with the mistake you just made if it's for an objective reason, because I'm going to use that mistake to get better, it's not okay or less okay to be dissatisfied with that uh subjectively or emotionally, because that doesn't matter. And emotions grow over time. And so if we can cut off the bad emotions quickly, then we let the good emotions grow and we let the bad emotions die. Uh, but if we can't do that, now we're stuck on that mistake and probably more likely to make the same mistake again because of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:10

Or make a worse mistake.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

Yeah. Yeah, in a in a different situation.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:14

We've seen that, you know, especially on defense. A corner gets upset uh that maybe they got called for a PI, and then all of a sudden they think they need to make a play and they bite on a hitch and go, and then all of a sudden you've given up six. Um, and that was something that that we had a little bit of trouble with at the beginning of this year was we could have got some really big plays in the passing game, and we really revved it. We really worked hard at it, and our girls really worked hard at it. And I think by the end of the year, I mean, I was so proud of our defense. Uh just, you know, everybody loves offense, it's splashy. Um, everybody loves interceptions, loves sacks. But I mean, PBUs are great too, or just them not throwing to you because there's nothing there really makes a difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:03

Yeah. There's nothing, in my mind, there's nothing more beautiful than a snapshot of a play in progress, and all the defenders are where they need to be. Whether they're making a play or not, they're where they need to be. They understand it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:16

Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, it's it's kind of cool. I mean, it's, and I think that's you know, you sit back from 30,000 feet afterwards and you you can you can really overanalyze things too. I I think you can you can get in your own head a little bit, like, what could we have done here or what could we have done there? Do we need to expand this? Do we need to take this away? Or do we just need to execute?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:42

You know, or did the other team just make a play? Um, you know, and I think that's the hard part is like you said, if everybody's in mid-play, in their right spots, the finality of the play doesn't matter. Because odds are you're gonna stop way more than you you give up.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:00

Yeah. Yeah. And those, you know, they the outcome is the outcome is the outcome. We don't have control over that. We only have control over the things that we do before the outcome. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:09

I mean, well, it's like you play Milton and you've got those phenomenal receivers. They're going to make plays. They're going to make plays and they're going to make great plays when you're in good coverage. And you got to be okay with that. You got to be able, you know, you got to be able to. I love boxing. I love UFC stuff. You got to be able to take a jab. You got to be able to take a jab for the spot. And you got to find what? Yeah, you got to be able to take, you got to be able to move backwards and then slip uh a punch and then hopefully be able to counter. Um, and you just can't, you can't give up the big stuff. Um, you know, I'm not a huge bend but don't break guy because I want to be an aggressor on defense. I want to be an aggressor on offense. But I think you you have to have at least the mentality of accepting when someone else makes a good play if you didn't do something that needs to be corrected. And then hopefully you you do it enough and you make them earn it enough that maybe they make a mistake and you can uh you can get sudden change. Um or or or flip the script, you give up a bunch of plays, and then there at the very end, you get a pick six that that changes the game. Um, or you know, vice versa. You can play great the whole game, and then all of a sudden you give up something at the end, and then that's that's all she wrote.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:28

Been there, definitely been there. Yeah. Uh yes. Well, Coach, uh, again, and then we're coming up at time here. I I really appreciate this. Um, this has been this has been fantastic. Um, again, just over the past couple months, everybody I talked to in Georgia, have you talked to Coach Harwell? Have you had Coach Harwell? You gotta have Brandon on. Uh so I'm I'm really thankful that uh that you were willing to come on and talk to us about everything that you're doing at at BT and and have done and will do in the future. And I I'm just looking down at some of these notes I was taken. I mean. There is a lot of stuff in here that that we can take away from it. So I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:04

No, thank you. Um, you know, I think that uh what you're doing's great, raising awareness for the sport. Uh, and I was taking notes too uh on on some of the things that you were saying. I really appreciate you sharing uh that. And then, you know, I'm just I'm grateful. Hopefully, when all this ends, um, you know, I'll have been a good person that has a lot of good relationships. And uh, you know, I'm grateful that we've had some success uh along the way too. But uh hopefully we do things the right way, and there's so much good that's going on here in the state of Georgia. Um, you know, and I'm so grateful for the the the group techs I have with with Coach Frazier, Coach Bergdorf, uh, and then Coach Nixon. Um, you know, they also make me better. Uh I am definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed. Uh, and there's many times where I'm like, man, I wish I would have thought of that, or I wish I could have done that. Uh, but their willingness to share uh and make make this old guy a little bit better um is is truly special. And it and and you know, their friendship means a tremendous amount to me as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:19

Well, I I know the four of you and and then you know a lot of other coaches around Georgia are are truly at the vanguard and are are doing a ton of work uh to make to to to make Georgia a top flag state, and I think it is, and and I can see why. And I think the the collaboration and relationship amongst the coaches uh within the state are a big big part of that. Uh so I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:44

Yeah, and uh the one last thing, and I I go on and on, I'm sorry, is anybody that's not involved in our coaching association, they need to get involved with our coaching association. They need to come to clinics. Uh, you know, uh Coach Bergdorf and McKeacher did an amazing job uh lining up so much that that was, I think, very, very helpful uh to listen to that any coach could have taken something away from. I know I did. Um and again, I I think it can be really, really helpful. Um, and that is a way to instantly get contact information on other coaches and connect. So if you are starting off out there, you know, join the coaching association.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:29

Yes, I I would agree, and that's something that that uh the the coaches in Georgia are doing uniquely well. Uh, you know, Jake having set that up. And it, you know, I think everybody in every state should be doing that and and forming some sort of mechanism to to collaborate and communicate uh with the other coaches because it's you know it it takes the coaches to to um to to push the sport. Obviously it's gonna take the players to drive the sport, but but um you know it's I think it starts with the coaches, especially early on. So definitely encourage everyone to do that. But um, coach, again, I appreciate. Thanks so much. This has been great. Um I can't wait to see uh next season and uh and everything that comes out and then see some of those rivalry games again.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:10

Yeah, it should be fun. We got a good schedule. We got a good schedule, playing a lot of really good teams. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm I'm excited to get back out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:19

Yeah, and I'm about 10 minutes from you guys, so uh definitely gonna to make it out to uh a game or two uh this this coming season.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:26

Come out, we play your alma mater, we'll be uh over here this year. So come on out for that one. That should be fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:32

Yeah, that'll be a great one. Well, uh well, I'll let you get back to it, coach. I know you guys are wrapping up your school year. So um have a great rest of the week and and closing out the school year, and I hope you have a great summer.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:44

Yeah, you too. Thanks for everything you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:47

All right, take care.