Rhino Backstage w/ Thomas Abban

A Welsh-born, Minnesota-raised songwriter whose genre-bending sound pulls from folk, soul, psychedelia, and rock to create music that feels both deeply personal and impossible to pin down.
Pull up a chair as we go backstage with Thomas to talk craft, creative evolution, and what it really takes to build a life in music.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

This is Rhino Backstage, the companion podcast rhino sections, where we sit down with each artist and find out the who, the what, and the why behind their art. Do you have a did you write up a thing? He's been writing these amazing intros.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Since it takes me maybe a time or two to sometimes get these all It's part of your charm. Perfect. Well last time it actually went better when I just kept fucking it up, but maybe we won't do it like that this time. A Welsh-born Minnesota-raised songwriter whose genre bending sound pulls from folk, soul, psychedelia, and rock to comp. Maybe this is just how we start them from now on. I try to say an intro, fail, we all laugh. And then we move forward. Then we hit the ground running. So yeah, hey man. Good to see you. Thanks so much for coming back in. Thank you for having me. It's been a minute. Thomas Saban here with us. How long has it been? Ooh, it's been a few months. I was gonna say four or five. Time. Time. Yeah, a whole lifetime of things.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

But like enough time that we have uh fully processed and post-produced and disseminated the materials that we captured for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Correct. Yeah, yeah. Which is kind of rad because now we've been talking to people in like all stages of us working with them. Like before they've been in the studio, hey, they're in the studio tomorrow. Hey, now we're six months past the session. So yeah, appreciate you coming back in to chat with us about the whole thing and the scene and what have you. So, you know, we talked about this earlier, but it it looks as though you've made a a move in life to the country, to the farm side. What precipitated that and and how's that uh kind of influencing everything you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Well, I think I think I just needed some space. I needed to try something different. I think you should always take a unique opportunity when it arises. And I did, and I'm uh so far quite happy with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Yeah. Okay, and you have you have a studio out there and everything?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

I do. I I have a studio everywhere I've lived. Uh this is by far my favorite.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

So way back when we sat you down on the couch the first time, you said that music just happens to be your medium right now. Having moved to the countryside and having a farm, is the farm now your medium? Chickens are my mediums. No, you know what I mean. Are you moving on from music? Are you are are you expanding from music?

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Like I would say I'm expanding from music for sure. I I mean thus far I haven't given up my heels for uh rubber boots yet, but I I I do consider myself expanding from music, but I'm not quite sure exactly what direction. There's a lot of things I want to do, a lot of things I want to try, a lot of mediums I haven't fully jumped into, dipped my toe, things like film, writing, such and such.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Okay. So it's actually coming in to film the next rhino session for us. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

What's this slip? Oh, I've said painful.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

It's pink and it's set right in front of you. See myself out. And you said you have an album that is perilously close to being finished. And you you also mentioned that a hundred percent of the instrumentation is you and you're mixing it. Is this like a interest in pain, or is this a labor of love, or is this uh like how does something like that come about? And actually, I should back up like, is that how you've always done it too, or is this kind of unique experience?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

No, this is pretty much how I've always done it. More so out of necessity, just in terms of I work a lot faster that way. All the stages of the album to me of making music are linked. It's not necessarily like recording, production, mixing. You know, I'm I'm doing all of those at the same time. But I think it's also a challenge. So I like a challenge. I don't usually trust things if they're too easy. You gotta bleed for it. Yeah, there's a bit of pain, you gotta have a bit of pain. I don't see myself doing that forever, just in terms of, again, there's lots of avenues you close yourself off from when you do everything yourself, and there's other avenues you close yourself off from when when you do it a more traditional way. But I've mostly done it this sort of insular way, so I'm looking forward to trying something more unique that actually no, not even unique, more traditional that maybe is unique for me.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

It would be difficult and possibly detrimental to completely dismiss any potential positives of collaboration. Exactly. Yeah. And it's hard to find collaborators in life. For sure. Especially in weird Midwestern flyover bullshit states. No, I just mean that like a lot of people who when they have decided that art is going to be their thing, they move the fuck to a coast and try and fight it out. Like I think Miss D. Boyce went over this. She knew in her soul that she wasn't going to achieve the heights that she was wanting to achieve in a small New Mexico town.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

So she just went straight for New York, was squeezed through that machine and learned a billion things, and then moved to LA to join that machine, and then has achieved this level of fame and uh believes very strongly that uh would never have been anywhere near where she is working with Sarah Berets and working with Sting if she hadn't have made that journey. So I get how collaboration is a real challenge when you are limited to Rockford, Minnesota.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Sure. Yeah. I think though there are different types of collaboration, and I think you, whether they're good or bad, you can learn from them or be open to experiences from them. I I I think if you're someone who's lucky enough to kind of just get swept along and only work with best of the best, best of the best, you maybe don't develop in other areas in terms of overcoming different issues, whether that's in yourself or with the other person, or how to utilize someone's limitations to elevate whatever you're working on. You know, I work with, particularly in the band side of things, I work with world-class, you know, what I consider the best of the best. But I think because they're not necessarily recognized as as that across the board, there's there's certain things that don't come along with it, like ego or this is how you do it. I it immediately turns me off to someone when there's sort of the right way and the wrong way to do it, particularly when it's there's no logic to it. It's just this is the the way we do it. Tradition for the sake of tradition. So I like people that allow their values to be challenged and also challenge me.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

So sort of more iconoclastic people. Yeah, yeah, for sure. People that really have eschewed the need for sort of any public affirmation and just are more pure.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

For sure. And I think you find those people everywhere, you know, not just in New York or LA. How do you find those people?

SPEAKER_04 6:57

How how did you find your current band?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

How did I find them? Um I don't remember exactly how, but around the time of m recording my first record, I met LA Buckner, and he knew someone who I knew, and I was looking to put together a band. Well, actually, specifically, I was just I just wanted to start with a duo. Uh me and a drummer, and we had a mutual contact. He came by to the studio, we played, you know, jammed a little bit and hit it off, and then we began playing shows together. And when I felt like that was in a good place, then I wanted to add a bass player, and then he knew Ethan Yeshire. They had gone to school together, they played in a band together. So then he became a bass player, and then from there everyone else. I mean, there's only been two other people, I suppose, but it's all been through LA, that original meeting.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

And you you're a four-piece traditionally like well, I guess, yeah, including me.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Including you, yeah. Yep. And and and do you guys play out often? No, um, not definitely not a touring gigging band. It's it's very specific. Specific shows, specific timing. We have toured and and done that, I suppose, but right now it's it's sort of uh more like events, I suppose, than show, show, show, show, show.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Is this because of your um you're working on an album or is it life? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yes. Yep, exactly. Um is the planet's all the new one? I don't know. I really don't know. I'm I'm trying to live right now with the shows.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Let us see you. Of course we'd love it, but what what are the pros and cons to you of touring?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Pros uh you sort of get into a flow, the sort of a mind state, I think, when you you're playing it in a different state almost every day. There's kind of a novelty to that. I really enjoy the challenge because I I never play this the same show twice or the same song the same way twice. So the times we did go on tour, it was a nice challenge for me to be having to create the show fresh every single show, and not with you know a month in between, like a few hours in between. So I like that. I think the cons are you're really like kind of difficult. Cons of the exact same list of things. You have to come up with a new show with only a few hours in between. I mean, I don't think it's healthy lifestyle in any facet of what you do, you know. I don't think it's great for most of the things that you have to do, I don't think are great for your mental state, and then obviously your physical, you're just kind of sitting and then you're carrying some gear, and then you carry that gear again, and then you sit, and then you go to the hotel and then you lie down. So it's not beef jerky, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Cashews and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah. But yeah, I do enjoy it. I think it for me, I would see it as like a seasonal seasonal thing as opposed to living on the road. So with respect to revenue generation, is it a significant part of your touring? No. No, no, and I think that's the con too, is is unless you have significant backing. Well, even if you have significant backing, I would say most of the time it's more of a at least in my experience, it's more of a promotional tool as opposed to I mean, obviously there are lots of bands that survive that way or even thrive that way. Isn't not it's not a lot though, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Because isn't touring like expensive and unless you're selling a lot of merch, like are you really making any money?

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah, especially when you're at war with the place where all your gas comes from. You know, it makes it a little difficult.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

But it just got more. I totally forgot about the effect that that would have on touring musicians. I completely space that. Um well, no, I mean, because you know, I'm not trying to budget for a van going cross country all the time, but that has to be yeah, that's gotta be crippling. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Right, or the private jet that you take everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

We don't have to bring it up. So do you have do you have merch? Is there an abon thong?

SPEAKER_01 11:13

An a bonthong, uh working on it currently. Yeah, it's in production. Cool. It's in the the research and development. I'm wearing one now.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

There's a focus group later. That's the research, God.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

He's a beta test right now.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

So if someone had never heard your music before, um, and they're like, just play me one song. Is it off the new album that's not released yet? Is it something from the archive? What's the what's the current state of where you see yourself musically?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

It would be the new one. I think simply because I'm just focused, I'm always focused on what I'm doing right now. Everything else is in the past. Um and I suppose what's nice about doing mostly everything yourself is that it really becomes a snapshot of a period of time in your life, your creative, you kind of see your creative progression, you see, you know, you you see where you weren't as good and you see how you've improved in this area, how you've evolved. And I think when you work with, you know, as uh other people, it's it's great and the rest of it, but I think, you know, if you have a great studio, hired musicians, amazing producer, amazing mix engineer, all the rest of it, it sounds great, but you're sort of it to me, it's almost like karaoke. You know, it's like a lot of the work has been done for you, you're not really being an artist at that point. I don't I don't see I can't see the progression personally from from when I'm listening to people that maybe have that as opposed to um artists who their voice comes through more because they have more to say in all those areas.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

So what's an album that you would say is very honest then? What is an album that you would say? For someone else, yeah, the the like issued all of that.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Well, I think I think the further back you go from 1980, the more you get that because roles like producer were more they were different back then across the board. It was more this is someone who stands, you know, behind the controller, and in a lot of cases the producer's role was more like almost more like an engineer, you know. Can you play the symbol a little less? Can you do this? As opposed to really hands-on, I'm gonna come in and make the beat for you, or you know, create. Uh there was obviously that they're more kind of constructed. Yeah. Yeah, but I think also the people we like from Motown were, even if they didn't get it at the beginning, got to do what they want. Like Stevie uh began producing his own stuff. Marvin Gay had to basically secretly record what's going on and leak it essentially in order to get Barry to endorse it. So yeah, I think I think the the people we all sort of agree are, you know, artist artists. That voice comes through. Whether they're they might not be doing absolutely everything, in often cases they're not, but you can even if there's someone listed as a producer, you know that it was their vision, as in the artist's vision.

SPEAKER_04 14:27

So Prince would be the ultimate impurity? No. Not to me. Not to you, why?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

I mean, there are people before that did exactly that. I mean, Sly was a multi-instrumentalist who recorded most of the things himself. Stevie played pretty much everything apart from horns and strings on his records. I guess I'm not saying the more you do, the more pure you are, but it's more about how much of the artists comes through. You know, if you you see artists who use producers and all of that, but they switch producers and yet their voice remains the same. You know, like if you if you look at someone like Björk, she uses quote producers, but you can tell she's more facilitating producers, right? Like this person has a sound, I'm gonna use this, and you look across her discography, and she it's it's Bjork. You don't really care who the producer is, you know.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

It's always gonna be yeah, so like they're just a different color, a different shade, a different that's what almost like a musician.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

You know, you hire a drummer because you can't play it, but there's a spectrum of how involved you get with the drama. You know, do I just go, I have no ideas, can you just play along to this? Or do you go, okay, it needs to be like this because you hear it in your head. Have you ever produced other people's music? I have, yeah. I've produced maybe three or four people. What'd you think of that? How was that for you? It was a learning experience because because, yeah, collaboration, you know, and people come in again with different levels of involvement in how they want their voice to come through. Not their physical voice, but their artistic voice. And so for me, I suppose maybe ironically, I prefer the people that know exactly what they want, because that's kind of easy. I can be I prefer to be more guiding than hands-on, but then the people that you kind of literally need to create the song for them, that's more well, I'm just creating my music and you're singing on it, you know. I'm remixing your your initial idea basically. Do you see more of that in your future? Yeah, I love I do love producing. Um yeah, I I I would hope that I would get to continue to do that. Yeah. Uh can you share what you've done most recently? Uh people know what it was. Well, right now we're in the beginning stages of working on a local artist called Matthias St. John.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I've heard that name before. Yeah. I've known him for over a decade now, and he has uh a really good mixture of he grew up all over the world. He's half Filipino, half German. That's Morgan's partner. Okay, yep.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Thor recognized that.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm like, why does that name sound so familiar? Yeah. Um so that that will be fun because it's to me that it will be the perfect blend of being hands-on and hands-off, in that there's not a lot of work to do. In fact, there's no work to do in terms of his autistic voice. So we get to just or I just get to kind of have fun facilitating the sculpting of it. So that's that's on the horizon.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

The reason you recognize his name, Martin, is because I pointed out a picture of him in Hawaii that Morgan posted. Dude is cut as fuck.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I mean, do you remember that's the main that's the main reason? I'm sure he's a very talented artist and never heard him play.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

But man.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Just say it.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Teach me a ways to exactly. Exactly. What's playing on repeat at your house in the studio? Anybody new? Anything new? Or I know I know that you draw a lot of inspection from yesteryear.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

I'm trying to remember his full name. I think it is Ali Fateh Akba. He's a, I believe, a Hindustani singer. Uh, I think he passed away in the 90s, but it's traditional uh Hindustani music. He's uh just an incredible singer. Been getting into that recently. I think that I think I said his name right. What else? Oh, and uh Bulgarian women's choir.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

I've been listening to a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

That weird polytonal, yeah, polyphonic, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

And how do you find new music?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Like where are you discovering uh, you know, Hindustani guy from the honestly just finds me, it's I'll hear something on the radio or in the background of a show, or I'll hear someone mention something sometimes from books too, particularly books from back in the day. They'll mention music and things. I I'm the kind of person I'll always just look it up just to see what they're talking about. So from everywhere and anywhere. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

What are some standbars? Like if you're in ex mood, you're gonna listen to ex-artists. Do you have anything like that? Like if I'm depressed and sad, I listen to Tom Waits to do that to myself.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Um yeah, I think I think to get energy, I listen to a lot of I hate the term, but world music, you know, just music from around the world.

SPEAKER_04 19:42

Why do you hate the term? Let's pause there first and tell me why.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Because you're gonna you're literally gonna just go, we have these genres, and then everywhere else in the entire globe, we're just gonna call it world music as if it goes together somehow. Yeah. And I th I always I just when I hear world music, I think of the CDs you used to be able to buy at Target that were just kind of compilations, new agey Yeah, just like a smiley gap version of music.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Yes, uh deep forest and to put on in the background of a spa or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah, yeah, I get you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Uh talk to me about what you see in the the Twin Cities music scene. Is that something that you connect with? Are you out seeing live music? Are you pursuing any bands in particular? Is it influencing your music?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

No, I I don't feel like I'm connected to the the music industry here or the rather the music scene. Okay. Um is that intentional or just kind of the way it's working? Just I think it's just the way it is. I I do know some, obviously, because I know musicians, so I'll I know, you know, friends of friends, etc. But I think it's I mean, it seems as good as ever. You know, there's a lot of variety which is nice. I think there's a a good number of sort of up-and-coming next generation musicians, if you know, in terms of the musicianship type music, the jazz fusion um scene is very good, or the bands I've seen are very good. Yeah, I think it's it seems fine. It's healthy. Minnesota's healthy. Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

It's good as ever. Um, there's lots of new venues that seem to be popping up, as well as obviously the old mainstays. If you were like, I really want to play here next, what what is the venue that hits the top of the stuff?

SPEAKER_01 21:32

I honestly don't know of any that have opened. I I'm not plugged in like that, but I like the palace. I played that one time. I think that's a cool a cool venue. That'd be a nice one. Um, but I'm not I'm not aware of any new ones that have come up. I'm sure I'll hear about them at some point, but talk to me about your your upbringing with music.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

I mean, we kind of talked about that during the interview. I know that you know, you made the comment that you know you used to listen to Elvis every Every single night before bed. Was that something you discovered on your own? Was that something from a parent or a sibling, or just like how did that come to be? And how talk to me about like the first time you saw live music and tell me about the moment that you decided music is for me. That's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

I think Elvis came about I'm not sure actually. I must have heard it somewhere. I mean, I didn't buy the record myself at five, so it must have been bought for me, or it was in the house. In terms of live, I would have been quite old by the time I went to my first live show. I'm not I followed. Do you know what your first live show was? It might have been uh Jack Johnson. Oh, no shit.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Not who I thought you were going to say. Not who I would have thought you were gonna say either.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

I I like I love Jack Johnson. It's possibly the most boring live show I've ever been to. It was at the Plymouth Pavilions. Really? Okay. Which is a shithole. Where where is it in Plymouth? It is in Plymouth. Well that's okay. The first Plymouth. The original.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

Before the rock, bro. Also a shithole.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Make a lot of friends here. Not a show that yeah, I need to relive anytime soon. If it was on a beach, that would have been great. Yeah. On a beach.

SPEAKER_04 23:16

Yeah, if it yeah, if you saw him all situ in fucking Hawaii, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Funny you should mention that. Oh, yeah. No, not me. Um, a guy that we work with pretty regularly, Micah Cavit, um, aspiring musician back in the day.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

Still is.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Uh, yeah, I mean, he still rocks the drums. He was in Hawaii on a beach with, as it turned out, uh, Jack Johnson surfing. Didn't realize it at the time.

unknown 23:40

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

All of a sudden he's sat on the beach and Jack Johnson comes like, you know, backlit by the sun, like comes out of the surf. Did they kiss?

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Is that where this is going? Fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

No, but I forget exactly how it happened. But all of a sudden, Micah is giving Jack Johnson his demo.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

He just had it on him when he goes set up.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

I mean, it'd be on your phone, wouldn't it? You'd just I don't think it was literally a CD. Was he like, oh my god, it's like one of those dudes is my mixtape, man.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah, basically. Basically.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

That's amazing. I wonder if Jack, I mean, Jack, think about it. You're so good.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Jack still has it in his you know CD. He's like, I'm gonna steal these last three songs. Was this like last year? Uh I I don't know exactly what it was.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

It had to have been if there was physical media involved, right? Yeah. Anyway, sorry. So that was your first answer. Talk about hijacking a story. We digress.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

I mean, Teg, I mean, I I played a lot of shows before that.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

So I mean You played shows before you attended shows.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

That is fucking awesome. And absolutely the first time I've ever heard anybody say that. Yeah, wow. How did you know what to do the first time you got on stage?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Uh, I didn't really. I just practiced a whole lot before I went up there.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

Do you remember? Where was it? When was it? How old were you?

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Well, I had done stuff in when I was in elementary school, you know, they usually do the or mine did an end-of-the-year talent show. So I did a couple songs and things like that. And then when I was 13, I opened for a band. I forget the name. It was like a you know, like a kind of run-of-the-mill blues band that comes through town. And I did it. That was my first proper show. And then I started playing out of coffee shops when I was 14.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Was this all solo?

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. And then I didn't go to my first live show until kind of late teens, I think.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

Really? Why?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

I did it's expensive.

SPEAKER_04 25:38

Oh, it was entirely a financial thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Couldn't drive. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

What was the best show you've seen? Best show I've seen. Probably L.A. Buckner and Big Homie. My uh my drummer L.A. Buckner, his band. I would say that was probably the best show.

SPEAKER_04 25:53

Where was that?

SPEAKER_01 25:54

That was at Dakota. Also at the Plymouth Pavilion.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

Yeah. Dakota. Full circle.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

I was on a beach in Hawaii and living too.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

There's a music video in there somewhere. I feel like it'll be an inside joke only that we understand.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

It's pay a lot of money to see him surf.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

So that was your that's the show that you were what what about it? Like, was it because I feel like you are always trying to learn and be like, okay, this artist, maybe I hate their music, but I love the way they do X.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

So was there something you took from LA Buckners?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Um not necessarily. I think it was more one, the music, obviously, you know, the musicianship, but it was energy, and then I think it was also seeing a friend succeed, you know, do something really cool. Usually the live shows I go to, I get I get kind of itchy, like I want to be up there. Not to take not to take away from them, but like when you see someone doing the thing you do, you get kind of, you know, like you get an itch. Yeah, exactly. Completely understand. Which I didn't I didn't feel with him, you know. So it was that that was a nice experience to, you know, just be in the audience. Relax. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

And have you has there been anybody besides LA Buckner that did that to you?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Where you really and I haven't I haven't been I really don't go to shows. Okay. I think because of that reason. I'm not a big crowds guy. Oh, I but I'm sure there would be. I I I can imagine that there would be.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Like seeing Bjork.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Sure, yeah, that was a one that came to mind too. Yeah, I I think there are lots of people that I I would, it's just, you know, how often do they come through town or how often are you able to go?

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Quicker on the horn, what what's the best shows you guys have seen?

unknown 27:52

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Or or top two, top three.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

I really liked Robin and I really liked Lily Allen. Robin was dope because she had that two-drummer thing and the whole thing was run by Ableton and it was so precise. Holy fuck, it was a clockwork. It was gorgeous. If you like Arpeggiators and and really pushing a synth, this motherfucker was incredible. It was just a it was gorgeous. It was that first half. And then Lily Allen was just hella fun. She bounced around.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Um and then I saw Tricky at Fineline, that sucked, and I was super disappointed and Faithless anymore.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Really?

SPEAKER_04 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

It's got top and bottom.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

Yeah, because it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Tricky is in the artists from the UK, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Um because I was a huge and still am a huge trip hop.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

I think that one was much more a function of terrible front of house, terrible, yeah. And it just I hate shows. I hate 'em, I hate 'em, I hate 'em. But that and that was one of the reasons why. Like I love I love the song that is underneath this fucking noise. Sorry, carry on.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

You're No, no, I I I dig it. I dig it, man.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

Aren't you kind of a like, aren't you kind of a sporting guy?

SPEAKER_02 29:05

I definitely had my time where it was like every weekend we were going somewhere, and then maybe twice during the week as well. Uh Rage Against the Machine at Target Center during the RNC 2008. Like I I performance-wise, 100%. Like it was perfect. It was seamless. You know, it was performative, it was their music, it was, and then these the energy and the rep the riot cops outside.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I was gonna say, I heard those riot cops waiting outside, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:33

By the dozens on each corner. So like it was the perfect fucked up energy for that type of show. They came out in orange jumpsuits with masks, Guantanamo Bay, you know, like fuck the RNC and huge lights. It was just it was like, yes, everything about it, time and place. I've been to some really fun Go Go Bordello shows. I don't know if you're into Go Go Bordello at all. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

It's gypsies, dude. It's fun. They're just fun shows. I still like my knees still fucked from going to a show there and like 10 years ago and at first Ave and like getting thrown into the bouncer and the bouncer just tossing me like I was fucking weightless, in you know, it just was crazy. Anyway, that was fun. Um, and then yeah, I'm super into the jam band scene, so I've been for years. So like string cheese at the palace was fantastic. Um, yeah, I don't know. I I like a lot of different music. Like, I think that's my biggest thing is I really don't want to listen to the same thing on repeat, which makes it very difficult to have children because they only want to listen to things on repeat. They at least have decent taste in music. I feel like I've helped try to codify a little bit that you know you don't have to listen to pop trash all the time. Like it's got it's got its place, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

My Ruby is into the uh stage version of Frozen right now, and I think I must have heard that record like a thousand times this week. So um can't wait for the face where she's into something that isn't Disney music.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

It's gonna get worse before it gets better. She'll be in the into the fucking descendants at some point, and you're gonna have to deal with that.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

I I was raised on Broadway musicals, like what you can't just can't tell.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

You're so masculine.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

So when Arlo gets in the car yesterday and goes, Can we listen to Pity the Child from from chess? And but it has to be this version of it, I was like, Yes. Yes, we can. Oh, you sweet summer child. You have achieved perfection in just asking for that one song.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

It's important to have the right version, man.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Oh, but even the fact that he like cares, he is very much my wonderful, just in you know, in his head and in la la land most of the time. So when he has like a specific request like that, and it's the right request, I'm like, oh god, yes. Okay, perfect. There's hope for you yet, child.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

It's so fun to sculpt little ears.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

I think of a good show. I can think of five. Was it the red hat chili peppers? It's not actually. I mean, he was good when I saw him, and then I saw him again afterwards, and it wasn't as good. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

How about Muse? Have you seen a good Muse show?

SPEAKER_03 32:08

I every time I've had tickets to see Muse, I've been sick. I haven't been able to get three times. Three separate times where I've been like, I'm dying. Muse go on without me. And they did. And they did somehow. And they did somehow. Somehow they kept playing. Uh Biffy Claro in the Brixton Academy. That was just like when you go to a show and like the crowd is energy-wise, is just right. Just vibrating. They were I mean, they were amazing anyway, but that was good. Gary Clark Jr. at the Palace would just blow your mind. Also that the Palace, though, was like one of the worst shows I've ever seen, which was Portugal the Man. Well, it was so bad. It sounded awful.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

I was like, I this is this is just all kinds of wrong, and it sounds bad. And I left. You left? Yeah. You left. Okay. Yeah. It's like you couldn't really hear them. And it was like all like bouncing around and splashy and weird. And I was like, this is garbage. I'm so sorry, dude. Yeah. Considering it like Gary Clark Jr. there was phenomenal. And uh Queens of the Stone Age there was also phenomenal phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

At the Palace. At the Palace. Palace is a fucking great venue.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Can be. Can be like the best. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, I was there last Saturday and they tried to pack an extra 5,000 people in on top of max capacity. So and I was standing behind the largest human being I have ever seen in my entire life. Just tall, like height wise. Like he had to be 7'2. I'm not I literally came to his nipples. I'm like, what the shit, man? How are you so and you don't get to stand in front when you're that tall. No. Right. Like the rules. I'm sorry, like it's an unwritten, understood social contract kind of thing. Like, man, I like to stand at the back where the in front of the bar.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Uh-huh. So you're above everybody else. But but when we were standing exactly there and he was right there, I'm like, he was on the floor and still taller.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

Try standing by FOH. That's where it's gonna sonically be the best.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

And uh yeah, but I'm short, so generally most people are taller than me, especially here.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

Especially in Minnesota? Fucking Norwegians.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Fucking Norwegians. They're 15 times. Anyway. Anyway, sorry. Hi, Tom. Subjects of our Oh, and everything, everything. What's the one in Uptown?

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Varsity, I was there with you. You guys went to a show together? No fucking idea who this band was. I'm like, yep.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Also saw them at first Ave. They were good there too. It was a great show. It was a lot of fun. I love that band.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

There you go. Yes. Uh have you ever been a little, you know, like you've created a ton of music and spanning lots of different genres. Uh, anything where you were ever like, all right, we're gonna see how this one hits, or not to say that you were like scared to release something, but just like you felt teaspoon album. Right. You you felt like you were outside of yourself a little bit or or go in a direction?

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Um, not really anything I've released that comes to mind. There might be a song or two that I tried something on an EP or something something like that. But definitely in the creative phase, I try not to put any boxes around anything. So there are definitely some maybe if people were familiar with my music, it would be surprising to them that I recorded a song like this or wrote a song like this. But nothing nothing I've put out. I think it's good if you are scared of what you put out or you know, hesitant because you're you're probably just outside of your comfort zone, which I think is a good thing. I think it would be bad if I felt totally comfortable with what I put out. That's probably a bad sign. But there's a difference between bad and scary. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

That's interesting. So you don't want to rest on your laurels. I mean, you're allowed to hone what you have. And some people would argue you can't ever completely perfect anything unless you decide that it is perfect, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:07

So for me, why make the same thing twice? Or why make the same type of thing twice?

SPEAKER_04 36:13

Isn't that what fan bases are predicated on, though?

SPEAKER_01 36:16

I guess so. That's why I don't have one. Don't have a fan base? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

I think you do. I think you do. I think you do having having shown your session to other bands, especially here, they're like, oh my god, you got Thomas in here.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yeah, no, people talk about you, man. Oh, yeah, that's nice.

SPEAKER_05 36:34

Um you supernight.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

I know you hate that, but well, I I just think we'll all quietly like you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

I agree, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

I I should say I want to and I should evolve and do new things. And and sometimes there are things, like for instance, there are areas of music that I explore that I know doesn't work in my discography or necessarily on the record I'm working on. So that's where I've now begun to channel into other things, other side projects, other things like that. That allows me to do hard left turns, but there's also a good kind of left turn for me where I don't know if I've quite made one yet, but there is a way to do it where you you bring along the essence of what you've done, but under a new frame. You know, like I think it's kind of funny to look back at things like Dylan going electric because it seems so obvious or like tame. It doesn't seem like a big deal, you know. It's like, well, these are all like-minded songs, you know, just a bit of a sound change, a bit of more instrumentation. But I would say that's the kind of left turn that I appreciate, where it's it it challenges, but it's not I mean, the worst type of left turn is when someone I think just sanitizes them themselves. But there's a good creative left turn where you, I guess, like I said, bring along your the essence of what you were, but kind of dress it up differently.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

So like Paul Simon doing Rhythm of the Saints in South America and then doing uh Graceland in Africa, and it's it's all Paul Simon. It's hyper Paul Simon, but the flavors surrounding it are dramatically different. Sure. Yeah. So what would be the essence of you that you would uh do you think you've honed it to a point where you can you know explain what it is? Or are you still working?

SPEAKER_01 38:31

I think I think the essence is something that you can't pin down, that you couldn't explain. I think majority of the time I create from that space, so I'm not concerned with not having that essence if slash when I make a left turn, because that's that's the voice, you know, but the voice isn't dependent on anything external other than the essence, you know.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

I forget who I was talking to, but somebody said, you know, like, yeah, no, I love his music. It has kind of a religious undercurrent, and I was like, Huh. I hadn't picked up on that necessarily.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Um, would you say that you have kind of a spiritual tone, you know, lyrically titling, I mean anything in that nature, and is it intentional or well, I think ultimately things like spirituality are at their core mysteries, and I think any artist that doesn't like mystery is is probably not a great artist. Boring. Boring, exactly, you know, too obvious. I wouldn't say it's contrived or intentional, but you know, I I've had people assume, you know, that I have this kind of belief, or you know, like from Christian to someone saying, Oh, I love all the the occult imagery, like you said this and this and this, and that's obviously this occult reference, which which I have no uh which I didn't know. You're like, hey, cool. Which but but apparently it it does. So I think it's just the intersection of mystery and curiosity, maybe. That's a cool way to describe it.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Yeah, it's a beautiful that's beautiful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

What did you think of the session that you did here? Like I I'm not looking for let me go first. I loved the kind of genuine collaborative nature that I felt like you know you had with everybody here and and everybody else who was here the day of. I tell the story of us doing slave moan and then going to tell you what and really hitting some kind of interesting energy there and going, hey, we're gonna flip back to uh Slave Moan and just give it one fucking solid home run swing, and like, oh my god, I thought we fucking you know absolutely crushed what we had done previous to that point. Like that's kind of how I hope most of the sessions go, that there's some kind of like journey, so to speak. Not to get all metaphysical about it, but like so I'd love to hear what you thought of the day and the process and the the output.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah, it was it was uh again more unique for me because I mean this isn't something or that type of thing isn't something I do often. In fact, I don't think I've ever done that with my band um before a kind of live in studio thing. I've done it on radio, I suppose, but so for me the challenge was not necessarily are we playing it correctly or well, it was more are we capturing the energy that we get immediately when you go on stage and do it and you have that responsiveness back um from people instead of you know looking at lenses in front of you. So I thought it went well. I think it more or less captured the energy of a live show, which was was my goal, you know, to play it and to have it sound like a live show.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Uh talk to me about that interchange between you and the audience you know, in a live show scenario. Not to switch gears here, but uh do you do you thrive on it? Do you are you just kind of aware of it? Are you controlling it?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

I think it's a dance. I definitely thrive on it because it's a give and take. You know, you do something that excites a group of people, and that either makes you want to do it again or up the ante, and that shapes the music that I'm playing. I mean, when I play live, there's a lot of improvisation, a lot of off-the-cuff cues and customization, and you know, I also thrive on the fact that my band doesn't know what we're gonna do. You know, like in many ways, I'm also performing for my band. There's like little almost like inside jokes, you know, that they're getting off on too, creatively. They're not just backing groups, and then I think that infects the audience too, when they see that this is a unique moment happening here, like a genuine uh these musicians are surprised and enjoying it and they're being challenged and kind of occasionally walking on a knife's edge, you know, over disaster. So I don't know, I it's it's almost like uh I don't know, watching someone f free solo up a cliff or something. Maybe not quite as uh serious consequences, but yeah, it's a dance.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

If you were to assemble, you know, like let's say you were headlining a festival or something like that, what are the the other bands that you would want to play with or uh in advance of or be opening for?

SPEAKER_01 43:28

I mean most of dead. Okay, that's fine. This is this is hypothetical. That'd be an easy show to play. Uh so I can do dead people. Sure. Yeah, let's do it. I think like Sly, Miles Davis, James Brown, Fela Kuti, even D'Angelo, Buch, Apex Twin.

SPEAKER_05 43:49

Uh that'd be a good show.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yeah. I think I think that's a pretty good lineup. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

I like Sly Aphex twin on the side. Straight out of Sly, straight into Windows.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

What else is in the future for you? You know, you've talked about some you know, new album, some different some chickens, some other media. Anything else big on the horizon?

SPEAKER_01 44:15

I'm hoping that after this record I can just create a whole bunch more a lot quicker than I have in the past and put them out. And then also I have another band called White Boy Summer, which is me and a drum. I'm doing guitar and singing and rapping and also running a DJ set. So it's sort of an experimental hip-hop duo. I'm very excited about that. We're working on a record for that. I think putting out a a few more things under different names, uh, just so I can get the satisfaction of putting things out in the world. And then aside from music, I mean at some point I'd love to make a film, uh, direct a film, write a film. What genre do you think you'd fall into? I am in musically, I suppose. Okay. Some essence. I say essence, yeah. And then from that, I mean there's just the big unknown. Okay. You know, I don't know. Are you guys playing Artwell this year? No, we're not. Nope. We played last year at uh Bauhaus. We headlined Bauhaus actually last minute, but no, not this, not this year. They gotta recover.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

You are welcome. Well, we appreciate you coming in, man. And talking to us about kind of a little bit of everything, and um, it's been awesome working with you, and yeah, we're excited for the next shows that you guys are gonna and the album and everything else. Very curious.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Yeah. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed that you guys do this uh for for musicians, so thank you. No worries. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

Cut one more time.