Pride for Israel: living who we are - Yuval David

In this episode Emmy Award-winning actor, filmmaker, journalist, and political advisor Yuval David joins Tanya as they drive around LA. He is widely recognized for his advocacy for Jewish, Israeli, and LGBTQ+ rights, as well as his performances in television shows like Madam Secretary and What Would You Do?. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Hey everyone, it's Tanya G uh with the Highly Jewish podcast in association with Joyce Lobel. I'm here with a dear friend, Yuval David, who I've actually been a fan of for a very long time, and the fact that we get to finally meet in person means so so much to me. Um how you I mean I've been following you online forever, but I in terms of like what your your title is, that's the one thing I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

So you could then I can just like throw that. Got it. Um yeah, so I worked in media government affairs and used to have a much more rapid career in the entertainment industry, straddling entertainment and media, but then kept getting deeper and deeper into government affairs, and that was very polarizing for what made you get into like what was the thing that transitioned you into like more politics? Um what I never transitioned into politics. I was always practicing my civic duty to engage in socio-political advocacy activism. Uh my Jewish upbringing taught me that, but also my LGBT engagement within uh the LGBTQ I IIS plus you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

But there's some M's in there now, too. There are some M's now. Yeah, I think in the beginning uh someone in Canada uh said that there is misindigenous persons, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

So yeah, it was I saw that and I I it's it got a little crazy, but what I can say is that LGBTQ advocacy got me deeper into political activism and advocacy and actually improved the way I maneuvered. I learned so much, and there's so many wonderful things that then the movement that I learned so much from ended up becoming crazy and became a movement that not only that I didn't feel very comfortable in, but I was excluded from when did you come out the summary? I I I think even that was just a very organic thing. I didn't have like a coming out party. Yeah, it was just like I was dating girls and then I was dating boys and then I was dating girls, and then I was dating boys, and then I was dating men and and things change. Um so I don't I don't think that it never had like organic with you. Well, it was also funny. I remember uh when I was younger when people I knew would make this really big deal about coming out and wanting to have a heart-to-heart conversation. I'm like, okay, great, like let's kick coffee. Like let's and then now what? Like, what are you gonna have for dinner tonight? Like, well what what year were you born? For the podcast, you're gonna ask me my age. What I can tell you is like, uh well of course I can no, I can tell you my but I I like I I'm tickled by the fact that there are so many stories about me online, uh where I have different ages online apparently. Uh, but my favorite recent story is that I'm one of the leaders of the Queers for Palestine movement. Did you know that? I didn't know that. I had no clue that I was a leader of Queers for Palestine. What? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. When was that? Where's I I had a friend all within the course of a month, uh, a friend of mine sent me a screenshot of he did some AI search uh about me for some event that he's putting together and it came up with that, and then two different Jewish organizations, maybe towards the end of that month, reached out and they said, So we're a little perplexed because you're involved in the Queers for Palestine movement. I'm like, where are you getting your information?

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Oh my god, just one quick online search and you would clearly see that's not the case. But hey, put water here. Oh no, please. I've shown you how to put it here. What's the big thing? Because then you're gonna be older.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Then I so I can hold my water. I'm not the one holding a steering wheel. When you take directions sometimes, Russian Jews like this one, they always are. We are very stubborn, stubborn and you make your own decisions. But a thousand percent, you know as well. I I know Russian Jews very well. That was one of the great things for me when I was little in Stotokwe, how you say Malchik, like little when I was a boy. And I was around all kinds of uh Russians, especially Russian Jews, and they never said to anybody, oh you showed up, good job. Or actually, they never even said good job. It was like you all know, you all need. So I would if you need some tough skin, where that's the word the crowd to hang out with for Russian Jews. Definitely have a tough skin, uh, or or or create a tough skin. But you know, I I loved it because I worked with so many incredible Russian Jews, especially involved in theater and the performing arts world, and they would give me very tough criticism. And I knew that if I was getting the criticism, if I was getting the direction and the corrections, that meant that I was good enough to receive it. Absolutely. And the people who wouldn't receive it weren't good enough and weren't gonna last, and you know, they didn't even focus on them. And then I started to work with more and more Americans, even though I'm a proud American born in the US, all of that, but I was raised around so many different uh in an international array of people. And I started to encounter people who were so soft and just expected a good job all the time and a gold star on their shoulder. And I was like, I don't know, I don't understand this concept because of the ration.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Right? Absolutely. I mean, that's why though, when someone actually says, Oh, good job, it has weight, it has merit, and it's actually I don't even like the term good job.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Good job is like if I don't have anything to say to you and I just want to have some throwaway thing, like I feel like that's how people use good job. True, I can see that. If I actually think you did a good job, I will say, so when I read what you wrote about West Hollywood uh elections and politics and how it's affecting our LGBTQ community, the impact you have like I'll talk about it. I'm not just gonna say, oh, good job. No, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

It's a throwaway thing. No, I I do see that. You're a lot more purposeful and intentful with like your words, and I think that that helps them have meaning. So I I appreciate that very much.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Oh, so this Queers for Palestine story. Yeah. Apparently, like this so these two different Jewish organizations also reached out and said that they were perplexed because they found out that I'm a leader in the Queers for Palestine movement. How do I what in your like what not why would you be confused about that? And where did you receive your information? In this era of misinformation all around social media and online, even these two different Jewish organizations were so lazy that they did an AI search about who like what what I'm up to these days. There's I there's so much information about who I am and what I do online.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Maybe go to me to learn what I do and not to some weird Well, what was released that made them I read we still never saw like an original post or anything?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

You know what? I I learned a long time ago not to read the comments. Yeah. And apparently I'm I get told every so often about certain comments that maybe I do need to pay attention to uh because they lead to death threats and things like that. Um but uh Yeah, those are really fun.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

But the and the amount that that we all get is pretty crazy. I it no one seems to be afraid to to say really threatening things to us online, like at all. They're not they're not worried about anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

And it's not only online, which is what the fear is. Years ago, people would say about social media oh, the internet trolls, the people who write things on social media, they say it because they're anonymous, but they would never say that to somebody face to face. Well, guess what? You know, to fast forward ten years later, the way people communicate online has affected the way people communicate now face to face. I mean, so obviously we're here at LA is the doing this you're in your podcast, which is great. I miss being in LA. But the other day after I had a speaking engagement, I decided to go for a walk on Santa Monica Boulevard, like my old stomping grounds, like when I used to go to my gay bars there. It's totally different. And I noticed that it's not like where were all the really good-looking, sexy gay guys? It used to be they're wrapped in kaffias now. Exactly. It used there used to be so many good-looking guys, and um it was very different. Now it's definitely more on the queer side of things. And I even heard like the drag queets talking about, oh, here we are for our queer rights. And I was like, it's a drag show, just do your drag thing. Yeah, just call it what it is. And this was all like from outside as I was walking by. And then I was crossing, I don't remember the name of the street now, but I was on Santa Monica and I was crossing in these uh these two lesbian slash queer women, however they identify, one with the the side shaved head and the long hair everywhere else, and the other one with purple hair. So immediately, like, like I know I know what it what what that means and what that stands for within the LGBTQ space. And as I was getting ready to cross the street, the the the one with the shaved side head, she said, Fuck you, Yuvol. I hate you and everything you stand for. And she said, Fuck you. And I looked at her and I said, No, thanks, you're not my type. And she looked at me and she's like, What? I said, Yeah, you're not my type, but I really appreciate the offer. And she's like, No, what I'm saying is that, and then she went into this diatribe about me being a pink washer, and and it was so quick. I mean, literally, this was a a 20-second, I don't know what, exchange, and I was just silent and looking at her, kind of feigning being tickled. Uh and and and I said, you know what, I'm glad that you have something that you really care about. Um, what is it that that that you hate about who I am? She said, You're a Zionist, you support Israel, you're a paintwasher, uh, and you you what did she say? Something like you feign this. Yeah. She's like, you you feign being an LGBT uh advocate or something like that. She said, And I was like, how? I said, and then I then all of a sudden I I was about to go into like explaining myself, and then I said, I said, how, and I was about to say, how could you say that based on like 25 years of LGBTQ advocacy that I've done being on leadership committees and as an advisor to LGBTQ organizations and a speaker at LGBT conventions and teaching workshops to help empower LGBTQ people to be better advocates and activists and members of Cis. And and I was like, all I said was how, and then I said, What am I doing? Why am I having a conversation with these two crazy women in the middle of the street? And I said, you know, I don't have the bandwidth for this. And she said, Well, fuck you anyway. I said, Once again, you're really not my type, so I'll keep walking. Uh, hopefully you'll find somebody who will want to fuck you because I don't know who would like that. I was like, see, that's what I wanted the drag queens to be like. Back when drag queens used to actually be funny, instead of the drag queens that I was hearing talking about, you know, queerness and rights, and I was like, okay, it's fine, but just just do the drag show.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah, I So that was my experience. It was what that it shouldn't that was so you were there for all of like ten minutes just long enough to get accosted, basically. I can't.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Exactly. And the accosted thing sadly has become so normalized that I like I'm just used to it. And when I when when I read the room or even read, you know, wherever you who's approaching you, you s already are analyzing them and you're prepared for what they are going to do or say. You experience the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

All the time. Now, I will say it it's it's just it's interesting because you know, when you see that that woman with the purple hair, like you you automatically judge, and in this instance, you're correct, right? And I'd say 99% of the time we're correct, right? Now, I would hear most people recognize me now too, so there is no confusion. But there are times where people look at me and just assume that I'm a queerist from Palestine is how I look. You know, like I have a shaved head, and I'm a butch woman.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

I mean, to that see, but maybe it's because I've spent so much time in Israel. I just think you're you're the hot chick who gets like all the women with these. Like that's what you look like. Thank you. No, if you were in Israel, like I'd I'd be doing like, okay, I know what she is. Like, how is she even talking to me because I'm not her type and she needs to go.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Well, I think you're very handsome. No. I mean, if I were if I were a gay guy, I would totally be, you know, all over you.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

I think you're very handsome as well. No, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

You are a gay gay man. I will say I've been hit on more by gay men than I am by lesbians in my lifetime. Really? A thousand percent. Well, especially these days. Especially these days, they all hate me. But thankfully, thankfully, I'm now happily off the market to a nice Lithuanian Jew. Okay. And um, yeah, it's it's that was actually sticking to the Eastern blockade. Yes, we we are over here. But I'll say it was that was actually one of the reasons like that really brought us together because our friendship was predicated on the fact that she was a lesbian that lost all of her friends essentially in the community. Not necessarily her friends, but lost the community. The community that she was a part of was no longer at all obviously supportive of us. And that was it's sad, but that's how so many of us are connecting now. Now, I look at it as a blessing because I get to meet people like you now that that's who I wanted my partner. And you won't you know, you want to know that the people that are in your life are actually on your side. And I I've that is what I've learned since October 7th, is that so many people that I have spent so much of my time with in my life are not my friends. And it's it's so sad that like the now thankfully I have I'd say maybe a handful that are still in my life that I've been friends with for 30 years, right? There are friends of 30 years that I lost. Oh, absolutely. It's crazy to just see that. And like now the people that that are in my life that are the closest to me and feel the safest are some of the ones that I've met only recently, and it's because we're all in the same boat. Yeah, and it's it's just so sad.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

It and it's non connecting, I don't think it's only connecting due to shared trauma with it regarding the new friends who have become these incredible friends. It's it's connecting due to shared values, and it's also connecting because all of the crazy things that are happening around the world helped us weed out the people who truly don't fit us and refocus on saying, well, this is who I am, this is who I want to be in my innermost circles, and in the outer circles, have you know whoever you want. But in the innermost circles, it needs to be people who truly want the best for you and who you want the best for them. Uh uh like you, you know, I feel like I lost anywhere from 75 to 80 percent of my now former friends in this new era in the post-October 7th world. People who uh even came to Shabbat dinners at my house. Yeah, that's the point that makes me crazy. Who met my mom, you know, who know my family and then took a harsh stance and went to, you know, the Palestinianist protests, went to the anti-Israel and anti-Zionist protests, and took a stance against me. And because I have I use whatever public uh the public profile, and I guess you could say it that way. Some of them have even used me to prove that they're activists, saying that, oh, this is what I said to you, Vault. Link, oh wow, you are such a hero. Like, good for you. You what an activist you are because you posted on X uh about V. I'm like, great, you are really helping Palestinians. But regarding the LGBT, the issues within our LGBTQ community, and uh my sexuality is not a subscription service to an ideology. And that is what has happened within our LGBT space, where people assume that if you are part of this community, which is truly a movement out of community, then you must subscribe to all of these belief systems. And that's the rejection of what the movement originally started as a movement of tolerance, a movement of inclusions, where we said we are the most diverse community in the world. Why? Because we happen to be part of every other community in the world. And now it would say, well, if you're a Republican, if you're religious, if you don't agree with uh far-left leaning progressive uh social democrat ideologies, then you don't fit. And that's the antithesis to what the movement is supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah, I mean everything, my sexuality is now supposed to be intersexuality. You know, like it's all about intersexuality, bringing everyone together in all of these, like this alphabet soup of like so many different things that have nothing to do with one another. That's the part that's also so frustrating is that you know, like you're you're confusing gay rights with gender rights, with race rights, with all of these things, and and I it's just so frustrating because everything requires a different lens and a different perspective and a and a different way to deal with it. And I and I feel like you know, so many of the social justice movements that have been around for let's say a hundred years that have all had a Jew involved in them. You know, when it came to like women's suffrage, when it came to, you know, um civil rights kind of.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

All of them Jews at the forefront.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Marriage equality is because of two uh Jewish women that went and took it to the Supreme Court. Like this, it was I mean, come on, like I I so it's just it's it's really frustrating, and um I don't know if people are just ignorant to it or there's a knowledge problem, you know, people ask all the time, you know, how do you fix like the anti-Semitism issue? And for me, my focus is not on that, it's more about how do I create proud Jews? Because I don't think at this point that it's about necessarily education because people are fully aware and still hate, you know, and that's the part that's like how do you fix the hatred? Is it fixed?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

It's to it's to fix the education. I disagree with you. I think it is totally about education.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Well, tell me, you think you've met people that know and and like I feel so many people that have been to the Holocaust Museum and come out hating Israel, people that go on birthright trips and walk out of birthright trips. Like how how can I expect someone who's not Jewish to have an understanding of what we go through when 30% of our own Jews voted for mom Dani?

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Right. So how does that I I think the focus on education is not about a focus on re-education. We have lost parts of society, we have lost communities, we have lost, you know, certain demographics that I don't think we need to waste our time to try to convince or to re-educate. But it's about educating our friends, our future friends, not only looking at allies from a place of allyship, but looking at allies from a place of friends, like meet my family, let's show, let's, you know, compare our shared values. How can I help you? What do I uh what what do you wish to see in me, and what do you wish for me to see in you? Having conversations like that and focusing on building, not just building bridges, but empowering and reinforcing the existing bridges. I don't think we need to waste our time on the queers for Palestine people and saying, like, hey, let us tell you all about what happened in 1948 and 1953 and in 1967 and 1972, and what the percentages of Arab Israelis are and what the percentages of LGBTQ Israelis are. We give asylum to Palestinians that don't have they don't want to hear it because they already set their mind, and it's much easier to set somebody's opinion than to change their opinion. So we need to make sure that people like us are still part of a community and that we have a vibrant community. One of the reasons so many LGBT Jews and Zionists of all different faiths and ethnicities are are really challenged within the LGBT space, is because the vast parts of the community have ascribed to an ideology, a Palestinianist and an Islamist, including a Marxist, communist, socialist ideology, that really excludes so many of us. So there are those of us who are saying, well, this doesn't fit, and then where's where's my community? So we need to say, hi, we exist, we're here, look, that's this is your community.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

That's precisely why I'm running. Because, you know, I'm not, I do not want the the Jewish voice to be muted in that space. There's plenty of us there. We've always been there. We've been at the helm of all of our movements that have brought us equality and brought us, you know, rights that actually protect our our liberties and our existence.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

And I just Zionism existed throughout all of it, where these occupiers would come in and the Jews said, we believe in a future for our indigenity. We believe in a future where we can have our own freedom in our homeland and always be connected to our homeland. So the people who now are saying, well, Zionism is a new political movement, one, no, that's wrong. Zionism has been a movement that's been integral in Judaism throughout the course of Jewish history, once we no longer ruled ourselves. And the fact that anti Zionist Jews Or anti-Zionist people who aren't Jewish say that, oh, I support Jews, but I am against Zionism. Just like you said, Shma Israel is a prayer that we say every single day. It's about Israel, but Israel as a people. The Jews, we don't look at ourselves as a religion. We don't refer to ourselves as the religion of Jews. We refer to ourselves as Am Israel, the people of Israel. That's how we see ourselves. Our prayers on Shabbat services have prayers about rainfall on the land. In Passover, gosh, if if you've seen these Passover Satyrs like the ones at Mamdani in New York was at the anti-Zionist Passover Seder, how Passover is all about Israel. Passover is all about our people in the land and our connection to the land and remembering our struggles and our connection to the land. And we say next year in Jerusalem. Several time, next year in Jerusalem. So how what is an anti-Zionist, an anti-Zionist Passover Seder? I don't even know what page from Haggadah speaking.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Beyond. That's literally what it would sound like. I I mean it's it's really it's really scary and sad, and it's um I have to say it's it's pretty impressive that you know the other side was able to be so good at flipping the communities that were you would otherwise think would be the first to support us. You know, you would think, you know, that a queer community would support the c you know, the country that actually has gay rights. You know, you would think that, you know, but like what I found, I don't know if you, I'm sure you actually know this, but you know how like in Iran it's actually legal to be trans and how like they fund it with the government. Yeah. And it's like, it's no surprise to me then that you know, something that has been used as a corrective measure for homosexuality is like the first community that they target for queers for Palestine. It feels like they're they're they're literally making a mess within our own community and making us look so bad and so crazy that it's like we're we're it's embarrassing at this point to be affiliated with a gay community, and that makes me so sad because there was such a time where you know when I I'm sure you when you were an activist and I was an activist, we were fighting for marriage equality, we were fighting for safety and freedom, and then we got it. Like we we won, right? And so then for me, I'm like, okay, great, like we should we we we won, we've accomplished what we wanted. I'm I'm no less proud, but like we're good now. Like, what's what are we still fighting?

SPEAKER_01 24:33

And now Well, it's the fight for for being honest, and the the the price of honesty is is much higher than ever, which is exactly why it's more necessary now than ever before. And those of us who are not just criticizing, but focusing on the truth, focusing on the values, values-based perspectives, values-based understandings, we're getting so heavily heavily criticized from the our own movements that we've been so active in. And you know what? I'd I'd much rather be criticized for telling the truth than celebrated for repeating lies and misinformation. Yeah. And we just need more people who will stand up in that similar way. How has the LGBT movement and all of these civil rights, social justice, and human rights movements veered totally in the wrong direction? It's because the Islamist agenda has played the long game. Since the 1960s, the Islamist movements aiming to spread a global caliphate recognized that they need to practice Islamism and not just jihadism. What is the difference? Jihadism is a violent approach to spreading a global caliphate, to spreading the uh pan-Arab agenda. That's what jihadism, through a very violent manner. Well, they realized that a lot of people around the world don't like violence, so how can they manipulate them or how can they win them over? It's through a political movement, and that's what Islamism is. Islamism is the socio-political arm of the jihadi movement. And since the 1960s, they started to uh in introduce terms like Islamophobia. So anytime people would talk about homophobia, they would say, well, it's just like Islamophobia. Again, that doesn't make any sense. How is Islamophobia like homophobia? But then let's also focus on what is a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear that you have of somebody. Yeah, so it's pretty rational to be afraid of the spread of Islamism. Well, if you look at uh 98% of terror attacks that happen around the world, who are the perpetrators of them? Exactly. And and here's another thing: the vast majority of victims of Islamic terrorism of Islamic terrorism are Muslims. So where are the marches and demonstrations for the Muslim people who are being killed because they choose to not follow practice Sharia law the same way or choose to not practice Islam?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Or who, you know, choose the Sudanese Christians too.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

I mean, there is complete deafening silence. Nobody cares. Including by the Christian community. The Christian community needs to wake up and recognize this isn't just a Jewish issue. This is an issue that's affecting Christianity. And if you want to support Judeo-Christian values, which is where democracy comes from, then you need to recognize you, the greater you, that is, you need to recognize that this is a a war you need to fight. This is not just battles for the US military and for Israel to fight. Israel is the front lines because their neighbors are all of these countries that aren't trying to get rid of Israel or have a two-state solution or have some like political negotiation. They want to spread Islam across the whole region. This, from the river to the sea, it's about spreading an ideology. It's not about giving rights to people. It's about removing rights from those they deem as infidels. And who are infidels? Jews, Christians, Druze, Zoroastrians, Hindus, uh, non-practicing Muslims, women who choose to be openly, you know, uh members of society and not having to follow strict laws that oppress them, LGBT people, all of these it's it's insane. Now, this is the kind of West Hollywood I was hoping to see.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

I'm dri I'm driving you through.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

I'm gonna try and find find some like sexy people to look at.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

That's what we're on a hunt for.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Good trip. Drive through, hopefully, yeah, because a looking part of town. We we need a a better looking part of town. I need a better looking part of town. Oh my god, it's so funny. So where do you let no? Uh I live in Washington, D.C., or just outside of Washington, D.C. I'm not gonna say because of the death threats I get. That's uh yeah, and that's actually a very sad part is the amount of threats that I received. Like I I've had to become a much more private person in terms of separating my private life and public life. Yeah. I I hope I'm doing a good job.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I don't know. I mean, I I certainly understand that it's um I know it's one of the concerns. Like my girlfriend always asks, she got she bought me a um a uh bulletproof vest on a second date just because she was so now that's love. That's when you knew. That's like when you do, that's like she's a keeper. You're protecting her. She is good. It's it's so sad that like that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah, who needs a nice necklace when the person you love gets you a bulletproof vest. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

That's she that's the way to propose to somebody that's protect you. But no, it's it's really it's really sad. I mean, it's um have you I I assume now if you're speaking or you go somewhere like you have security, you have to.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah, I guess it's how how how ridiculous is that? And the people who are practicing willful ignorance about the level of anti-Jewish bigotry, hatred, and threats are are they just ignoring the fact that outside of every Jewish synagogue, every Jewish school, Jewish businesses, uh, Jewish events that we have security? It's it's to protect us against people who are actively threatening us on a regular basis. And then look in contrast to other faith-based and ethnic communities with their events, their businesses, their gatherings, their institutions. How much security do they have outside of those buildings? It's it's vastly different. In the United States alone, uh what what is the statistic? The statistic in the United States is something like more than 60% of uh religious and ethnic-based hate crimes are against Jews. Oh, yeah. So if more than 60% of all crimes against uh an ethnic or religious group are happening against Jews. And we're uh 2% of the US population. Maybe just look at statistics, but most people don't want to look at statistics because they know how they feel. I can't tell you how often, not just in panel discussions or on air on the news when I'm in an argument, you know, when they want to show all of these different sides and opinions, but sometimes when I'm even just getting together with friends for dinner, and all of a sudden a friend will say, Oh, there's someone I really wanted to come so they can hear what you say, and then this person's coming to try to dafka, you know, argue with me and prove themselves. Like it just happened to me recently, and this woman happy dinner, yeah. And I was like, Come on, can I just have dinner and talk about like my love of really great full-body red wines or the flavors, just be a normal person. But this woman who worked for um uh she worked for USAID with uh doctors who would cross into different situations and challenging doctors without borders, right? And she kept spewing all kinds of false information, and I was just speaking to her at this level, but she was getting very emotional and very, you know, over the top with her expressions, and she said, All you do, Yuvol, is share statistics and facts, but I know how I feel. I'm like, can I just repeat what you just said? And she said, What do you mean? I said, You say that I'm sharing statistics and facts, but you're sharing your feelings. I said, How you feel is very important, and I'm not going to discredit how you feel about something. It's great that you feel. Yet are you forcing facts to fit your opinions and your emotions as opposed to shaping your emotions and your opinions based on facts? She said, I don't understand what you said. And I said, Let me say that again. Are you what she said? And I said, You're you're shaping your opinions. You're you're in I'm sorry, I said to her, you're forcing facts to fit your opinions as opposed to basing your opinions on facts. That's a very different way to look at them. What is she so what is she even She was like against Israel, she thinks Israel is the biggest oppressor.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

I said, Let me let's talk about basing your fact your feelings on facts. What are you basing them on?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

That's the part that I just don't know emotions. Well, that's that's the placard strategy that wins people over. If you can write something on a uh on a sign, or if it fits nicely after a hashtag on social media, then people are much quicker to accept and uh and um embody that. That's why you know sad, most people don't read a full article. I write articles every week, uh, so I'm very sad about that. They read the headline and maybe the first paragraph. Yeah, and it's the same thing with social media videos. People don't usually watch the whole video, they'll watch the first five to ten seconds.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

It's actually so funny too, because I'll know exactly who watched mine and who doesn't, because I'll see a comment that says when you could have mentioned blah blah blah. And I'm like, if you would have waited maybe three more seconds, that's exactly what I did mention. But yeah, I mean, we just get so I look, but I I think I also I'm guilty of it too. How much information are you able to consume? I mean at this point, like I feel inundated where it's not just like getting new information at a such a high rate, but then also having to figure out which of it is true, you know, like and then having to fact check. Like I'm it's not just a matter of like critical thinking or reading comprehension, it's literally having to do a research and like to And how brilliant is that?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

How wonderful that you're complaining about something that every human being should do, about doing the research, and that even somebody like you is challenged by it. So, what does that mean? That means we all need lazy. Yeah, imagine a lot of people are lazy. What are tourists just taking photos of pink walls? Like, it's a pink wall. What's the big deal? Paul Smith, and I'm not really sure yeah, why everyone's it's a pink wall. Sure. It's because somebody on social media probably said, like they are taking a picture of one person who's in front of Paul Smith.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Who are you? And why aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 35:13

No, I think they're all taking their turns by standing in front of a pink wall because they learned on social media or in some weird tourist site that this is a famous wall. Oh my god. Which I'm sure the whoever whatever that store is, they probably paid the um tourists' websites, you know, to to have people go there. But you know, some something about what we're talking about is um we're seeing like this selective outrage, and selective outrage doesn't come from moral clarity, it represents moral failure. When somebody is selectively outraged by one topic, and then they don't apply that outrage to resonating or similar topics, it reveals more about them and the failures of their own moral perspective. When Jews are excluded from having the same rights as other people, that yes, that reveals an anti-Semitism, it reveals an anti-Jewish bias. And the same thing when people are saying, oh, we care about Palestinian rights, but they don't care about the rights of Palestinians in Lebanon, where in Lebanon Palestinians are not allowed to own lands, they're not allowed to be doctors, they're not allowed into certain professions, when the Palestinians across many countries in the Arab world are considered second or third class citizens at best and are struggling to be part, uh, an integrated part of those societies, they don't talk about that. When they're outraged and say, well, we care about Gazans, and Gazans, you know, the rights of Gazans are the most important thing right now. Well, what about the rights of, as you mentioned, Sudanese Christians who are being killed on a daily basis? What about the Nigerian Muslim girls who get abducted on a regular basis and forced into sex slavery by other Muslim tribes? What there's no concern there? And you know, it's like the no Jews, no news expression that we keep hearing being said all the time, which is so upsetting and gross. So the selective outrage reveals more about people. And I agree with you, oh you and I have encountered that. Oh yeah. Like the the LGBT people who say queer rights are Palestinian rights, and like how? Well, I wonder if anyone will say it to us now, because we're about to be right in the heart.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

No. We were supposed to get coffee, by the way. I know, we were looking, and then I realized I had stuff. Do you want to go stop and then just grab a bike? I mean coffee is really nice. Okay, well back. I like coffee?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

I love coffee. But I like good coffee. Okay, well, I know a good place. I'm uh I'm not a a just a coffee snob or a coffee connoisseur. I decided to go all Italian and I'm a coffee conoscenti.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Oh wow, okay. Well so then now I'm really gonna have to It's my that's my level of snobbery. Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna have to find a really good place. Absolutely. There was one I really loved and then found out that it was very anti-violent, so I stopped going. I know. And I'm like, ugh, like I'm starting to lose like all the things that I've I've liked for so long, and it's it's sad. Like, or I was at Coachella, and you were at this last Coachella was at not this past weekend, but weekend one. And I saw um this guy with a huge Israeli flag running around, and I saw him, like, I ran up to him, and it was nice and we spoke. And um I also watched the strokes the first weekend, and the first weekend the strokes started to say some nonsense against Trump. And I'm like, all right, like the usual talking points, like, let's hate Trump. Um, ridiculous, but whatever. Um, nobody in the audience really even clapped, which I thought was great. Everyone was like, okay, like move on, just play music. But this time weekend two, they splattered videos of Gaza and Iran and were saying, you know, stop the genocide. And I was sitting here and I'm looking at this and I'm like online, and I'm like, thank God I wasn't there a person for this, because I would have really lost my mind. But I'm just like, they they were so strategic that they waited until weekend two. Because imagine if they did it weekend one, they probably would have been told, okay, like don't come back. Because thankfully, Coachella, you know, has plenty of Israeli performers, they had Noga eras there, you know. So I I don't think that would have gone over to all, but they specifically waited, and I'm like, this is so gross. Like, find something else to do with your life. Like, this is what you're spending your time on stage at Coachella doing. I'm like, alright, so I'm looking for porking now because there's good coffee right here. Good coffee. We will stop and do that. I think I see a spot.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

So, you know, one of the things that I I am really delighting in about being in your car and just being around you is just I feel like I'm well waiting you're saying I'm sweet. You didn't hear what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Oh, I mean Oh no, you did hear I said I was nice. It was nice, yes. The setup was really good. The setup was so yeah, is that it's just like this is my like gay community. Same.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Yeah, it's a breath of fresh air, and it's rare, and it's but it's and it's so like when we do meet like like-minded people of us. Like I remember I went to a log cabins event. Okay, um, they they endorsed me, they're so sweet, and it's just so nice to be like, oh my god, like I hate to say like normal gays. Like I hate to and I hate to call people abnormal because I've I've always like hated that term, but like, wow, like no, like there is a difference. There's just people that are like just normal gays, and I I I miss you guys, and it's so nice to be around.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Here's the thing the LGBT movement is one of the most successful socio political movements of our time. We've achieved our rights within this democracy. Yeah.