The Last Lesbian Zionists with Eve Barlow

Eve Barlow rose to prominence as a celebrated music journalist, writing for some of the world's most prestigious magazines and championing progressive causes.

Between 2009-2012, Eve edited some of the biggest entertainment magazines in the UK including Q Magazine, MOJO, Empire, FHM, and Kerrang! In 2012, Eve was invited to become the Deputy Editor of the NME, then the biggest weekly print music title in Europe.

As an antisemitism and social justice warrior, Eve is a prominent figure in media outlets today, promoting equality, inclusivity and a push for a non-bias media.

She joined Tanya in the latest episode of Highly Jewish where nothing was off the table! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hi everyone, welcome to the Highly Jewish podcast in association with Joyce. I am so ecstatic that I get to have Eve Barlow in my car, and the fact that I get to call her a friend, honestly, is uh you know great for me because I was a fangirl first. So I'm so so glad. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If you guys don't know Eve, she started off her incredible career as a media journalist, right? Or a music journalist and uh has exposed all of you to some of the best music, and I actually became her fan because of the feminist that she is. So we have so much to unpack and explore on this drive, and I'm just I'm so happy that you're here. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Um we're doing carpal karaoke, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Basically, start singing. Um, I mean, I just look, like when I first got introduced to you online, I got introduced to someone that stood up for women that seems to not care at all about public opinion, or at least wouldn't let that interfere with how you showed up for people or how you showed up in the world. And I've always just had an immense amount of respect for you, and I imagine that wasn't always easy. And I kind of just I don't know, like I want people to get to know you the way that I am lucky enough to have gotten to know you, you know, in a personal way, because you're such a warrior, but you're also so vulnerable, and you're just a really good friend. And I just uh yeah, I just I want people to sort of get to know how what you experienced in life that brought you to be who you are now, I guess. Really short question.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Really short, um really like you know, hi, how are you? Yeah, hi, how are you? How's your day? Um, you know, I don't know what it is that compels that aspect of my personality, other than I've always just kind of like wanted to highlight or uplift people who I really recognize. And I I think as a taste maker, I did it for years, like putting my weight behind something that I really believed in artistically, creatively, um, going to bat for things before anyone really got it, or you know, being able to sort of understand someone's vision and believe in it. And I think naturally sometimes that will dovetail into recognition of people who stand alone in a myriad of ways, whether it's because they are up against some major public fight or because they're having some private battle that you know nobody really understands, or you know, whether it's kind of cut some of the advocacy stuff that you and I have come to meet over, you know, vis-a-vis like Israel and being Jewish, I've just always wanted to, I've always pursued the truth, and I think the through line in everything that I've ever done is integrity, whether it's being really excited about some band that no one else gives a shit about, or it's truly understanding the Goliath of a suppressing machine that's trying to disappear the truth or erase reality. I to be honest with you, like maybe this is a bit masochistic, but it really kind of excites me. Excites me.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

I can certainly relate to that, absolutely. Because at least it feels like you're you're doing something that has worth and merit, and that's actually good for for people and humanity, and ultimately yourself, like it feels good to do good and to stand up for good, right now. At least it's easier, I think, than the alternative. But I mean, I I don't know, like I I also imagine that it's dangerous. I know you've been I don't know, like it just seems like people attack you online all the time. I know I get it too, but it's for me it's it's relatively new, and it's just focused on the fact that I'm such an outspoken Zionist, and now my my politics, like that's playing a part of it. But I've been canceled or dragged online pretty much just for one thing, and it's been new. And with you, I'm beginning to think that like people just like they want to pick it up and like they're they're just so desperate to like find a way to actually like hurt you, and in the end, all it does is just empower you and make you stronger and make your voice more, you know, heard and and and more important. And so I just uh I don't know, I feel like you're continuously David and Goliath, and you know, thankfully we all know how that ends, so you know, but I just uh I'm sorry that you're continuously having to suffer.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Um, I think that someone I love dearly once said to me, if you're not pissing everyone off, you're not doing it right. And I do think there's a lot of truth in that. Um, fortunately or unfortunately, I have been at the center of a lot of uh very contentious issues that um draw the inspiration of like how do I put this? Um uh psychos? Um, there's a lot, it's interesting. I've been having a lot of conversations in the last couple of weeks about smear campaigns and coordinated hate online and coordination. And actually, for many, many years, I very much believed this idea that a lot of hate campaigns are coordinated, that they're boosted by inorganic, like whatever you want to call them, bot accounts or whatever. But actually, my experience has made has shifted my perspective away from that. I think that there's something really comforting to believing that there's some kind of like monstrous automated machine that's not human that attacks us.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, I'd much prefer that that's what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Many of us would much prefer that. So I'm going back and forth in my mind about this because yes, it is a little bit more comforting with respect to, oh, this isn't even real. But actually, I don't think that's what's going on, and I don't think that there needs to be a hell of a lot of organization around a lot of this. I think that what the internet and specifically social media has awoken is a permission and a point of access for all of the psychos that live in our world. And actually, if you check, which I do sometimes, actually regularly, not necessarily IP addresses, but try to track where some of these users are coming from, they're all over the world. I mean, they're in regions that you wouldn't even imagine you have people watching you from.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

So And there's no way to just can there's no way that those are just bots.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

They're not bots.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah. See, I keep hoping that that's what they are. Like I'm like, no, they're just some random dot, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:10

But it's not real. And you know, like a lot of people will say, and and I've been guilty of this as well, like looking at something and then realizing, oh, it's an account that doesn't have any followers, it's brand new. Actually, it doesn't have any followers and it's brand new because some psycho is creating more and more accounts to attack you with. So a lot of this, unfortunately, it is organic, but I'm saying all of this to say about my, you know, stalking, harassment. Like, I actually have now called it assault because it is a form of assault, especially when parts of your private life and things that have only ever happened behind iPhone screens or in your email inbox start not directly being quoted online but echoing, like you get an echo of private conversations you've had happening in a public sphere, and you're like, hold on a minute. That's so crazy. I just it's really unnerving because it makes you feel like, is the you know, is the call coming from inside the house? Like, who the fuck is like spilling my shit online? So it's suffice to say, where we could see comfort coming from bots, okay. I'm actually now switching my comfort zone, I'm fine with it being um, you know, up to upwards of thousands of psychos who are obsessed with me. Because when I then see that these are real people who I live rent-free in their heads all the time because they are jealous of me, they're jealous of my proximity to certain things, they crave access, I will absolutely not give them, they um are you know, they're not on the same life path, like whatever it is that makes them fixated and obsessive around me, it's their problem, and it's their real human problem, and they will spend the rest of their lives, and I I I'm like, you know what? If this is an investment of your time, this is how you want to spend this is what you want to spend the next 10 years doing, have the fuck at it, like have at it.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

You know, what's funny is I actually, you know, so many people come up and ask me, they're like, why do you not like care what people think? They think, you know, and I have to say, I never have, but especially what's made it so much easier now is President Trump. Imagine being like imagine being him. Like, I have he has an entire population of people, he has an entire party that is like completely deranged against him. We're talking millions and millions of people that are publicly and privately like they can't stand him. Talk about living rent-free in someone's mind. Like some people, I feel like that's the only thing that exists in their mind at this point. Like I hear, I don't hear anything else that they talk about. I, you know, I I know people in my own family, which is horrifying, who have said to me that we can't celebrate the 4th of July until President Trump is no longer president. And I and I'm just just I I I I'm stuttering because I don't even know what to say with the stupidity. But so when I think about the all the ways that this man has been dragged and cancelled and to the point where there's like a TDS now in the DSM, like we're talking about in the DSM. It will be, I'm sure. I I'm just assuming that it's an I mean it should be.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

I mean it definitely should be. Oh, it's definitely a mental illness. It is a mental illness. Oh beyond. Because and look, I'm not trying to like pathologize criticism of a government. I'm not pathologizing that. What I am what I'm trying to say, and I think what you're trying to say, is that fixation, obsessive fixation on one thing as being the root cause of everything that is wrong, is such a projection. Yeah, and it's it's not about Trump, it's about the individual making that projection and why are they doing it? So just displacing everything that they actually feel about themselves, yes, and also because of the insecurity and because of the lack of identity and the fear and whatever else is contributing to this obsession, there is it's this it's this need to be part of a group and be, you know, like the glue in this group is just it's hatred. You know, that's why I've spent so much time studying these extremist factions that are threatening Western civilization right now, and talking so openly about the difference between light and dark, the difference between love and hate, and really thinking about the motivating factor behind so much speech that's happening. Because all I see is destructive forces, destructive forces, and all I experience to come back to your previous question, all of this abuse that I am, you know, probably well, definitely disproportionately to what I've done in the world, but I mean maybe, but but disproportionately to a lot of other people. Like I am really a primary target in many different places. Lucky me. Very special.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Um, but yeah, you deserve an award somewhere in there. I think there should be a Guinness book of world record for like how many times people can I piss off. Yeah, like literally, I mean you you win for sure.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Like there's like Trump and then there's you, like, and that's where we're at at this point. But what's the point of it? It's it's suppression, it's to get me to to disappear, it's to erase me. It never works, which I love. Thank you. It doesn't work. No, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

I think it just makes you that much stronger, and it makes people that much more willing to listen to you because it's hard to say things when you're constantly being told not to. You know, it's not it's not an easy thing, even if you're mission-driven, you know, it's it still doesn't make it easy. Um, and I think people forget that too.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

But yeah, I mean I think people have forgotten the power of their own voice. Yeah, you know, people kind of like capitulating and saying, I feel silenced, I can't, you know, I can't speak on this because this is gonna happen to me or that's gonna happen to me. I'm sort of like, hasn't the worst already happened? Like what if the if you have if you feel silenced, then the worst has already happened because you're literally not allowing yourself to engage in something that we you know that that is our people talk about human rights all the time. This is a this is actually a human right, it's a basic one that we have protected and that we fight for, but also you know, sometimes the constitution totally fails us and the first amendment fails us, and I've seen that in action in multiple situations. So, what do we do about it? We have to live by example, you've got to fight for, you've got to use your voice, and you've got to keep doing it, and there's just so much, you know. I I really I I hold a lot of empathy for many people who are too afraid to take the mantle, and you know, or they're too they're too afraid to speak what they think. I do have empathy. We're living in a very um, I wouldn't even just say toxic, I'd say it's actively dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Thousand percent.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Um, yeah, but you know, I also am really struggling with I'm on the struggle bus vis-a-vis my um absolute over fatigue with victim culture and victimhood, and if you remain quiet, you're allowing yourself to be victimized. I agree, you're allowing yourself to be a victim of the circumstance, and I think in general, I'm seeing this a lot that there is a real pushback against this whole culture of cushioning and protecting and you know, like safeguarding people's emotions or what they find difficult.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

There's there's a lot of this kind of makes it impossible to live and work with.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Well, totally. There's a more of a strength through power focus that's coming through across the board, and I I live for that because that's what I have tried to do over the course of let's see how many years, like the past I'd say over five years, I've tried to live by example by resisting being resilient, um, and showing that no matter what we will survive, and you know, not to sound really cheesy, but we'll thrive. Always. And actually, what I find really interesting is that you know, I used to have this big music and film journalism career, and um it's happened piece by piece over time. But basically, all of the artists that I championed were either themselves made their own choice through their own wackletics and their um myopic views that they developed, um, or because their teams told them to, they found a reason to establish distance from me that was not based on reality. Um, but you know, they all found reasons, whether it was that they just took the most basic libels about me off the internet or you know, something more imaginative. But you know, all of that to say is that I was considered, and we are considered, due to our views, to be some kind of liability to their public image. And what I really would like to say to people who are afraid to speak out is, and I'm not trying to smoke uh blow smoke up my own ass, but I have never had more eyes on me, I've never had a bigger readership or a bigger audience, I've never done better for myself across all facets of my life. I like my star is actually not just rising again, it's rocketing. Yeah, and it has been so good for my public profile taking this position, and that's actually the sort of progressive whack-a-mole propaganda that I want to push back against. Yeah, this is not bad for your brand. Speaking the truth is not brand bad for your brand, being a light in the world is not bad for your brand, it is not going to wreak havoc on everything in your life. Sometimes I talk about how the stocking has been very destructive. There have been destructive elements, it's been terrible on my psychological health, it's been really scary as regards my physical safety. Absolutely. Um, you know, you do start to feel like there's no point in building anything because everything that you build, whether it's friendships, relationships, work situations, you like you know, building your own home somewhere is going to be taken from you. Yeah. But, you know, all of that to one side, because at the end of the day, all of these things can be survived, all of them can be overcome. I'm living proof of that. Yeah. But this idea that when you speak up, you're going to tarnish everything around you, and you become untouchable or you become molten lava or whatever, is actually a bunch of fucking bullshit. Like, I know.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

I know I agree with you in a lot of ways because I feel like for sure, in the same breath, anything that I have, I feel accomplished or done well in has been a direct result to my being honest and you know, sticking to what I believe is right. And always, that's always been my through line as well. And I will say that too, in terms of my career. I'm doing better in my career in the moments that I'm speaking authentically. But I do think that there's always a period too where your life will be shit. You know, and I think that people need to understand that, okay? Because I don't, I I think that the ending is is what you're saying. Because I think we're like, you I think I don't know if maybe you've forgotten your hell. You're at the I I know, I just that's why I paused. So like you don't know the ending, but I think that like you're you you finished the the shit and now you're going to be on like the good road, you know. But I think that the good road is not automatic. I think after you take the risk to be open and honest and to take a stand that isn't popular, I think there is a period of time where there's mourning lost, you have friends that isolate you, you might lose your job in certain cases, you might have clients that walk out on you. So that I think your livelihood will be impacted, and I think it should be because that shows like that that you're removing all the other stuff in your life that shouldn't be there. So there is going to be a period where stuff is shit, but then there comes a point where another door opens that is so much better than what you've had, and then I think that you're like catapulted into something greater. And so what ended for you, I think, was all the crap. And I think now you're at a point where you see the gifts that are coming from your integrity, and maybe you're forgetting how bad you had it for those for a while because you really did. People were canceling you, but you were getting money taken out of your account basically when that happened, yeah. You know, like people that you've stood up for your whole life or that you've made their careers amazing completely turn their backs on you. Like you experienced like real pain, you know, and so I think now, you know, now you're reaping the rewards of that. And so I and that's the process, but I I don't think it's as easier as linear, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

No, it's not. I mean, I've taken I've put my glasses up because we're getting serious now. Yeah, pro pro tip anytime you're interviewing someone, do not let them wear sunglasses because you can't see the truth of their eyes.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah, I'm sitting here like I'm uh trying to hide something already got my hat on.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

But uh no, I'd be like, ASAP Rocky, take your fucking like what you what are you wearing them for? And yours. It's just so funny. But no, it's true, and like the thing that I've always been able to hold fast to is that I I know my value and I know my worth. My like just because because just because I started advocating for my own people doesn't mean that um my writing suddenly got shit or like I suddenly became um a terribly disloyal friend, or you know, like whatever. Like all the time. My music taste was big. Or my music taste was yeah, like I started listening to um like Limbiscuit or something. I don't know. Yeah, I kind of like Limbiscuit, I just gotta tell you that. But I'm gonna get out of the car. Anyway, I I I guess it was a moment for Fred Darst.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

There was, there was definitely a moment. I and then last resort, there was like a whole Oh wow, like half room. Yeah, I'm really I yeah. I wait funny thing is absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Those are the only two bands that I can tell you. But for some reason. Wow. Yeah, no, my music. No, listen, no, I I have to say that I um I unfortunately really love my chemical romance.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Oh, listen, it's so unfortunate about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Matty looked at me and was like, are you listening to this today? Because there was like a playlist and I had to like pretend that it was like, no, the playlist just like popped up.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

I had it like 20 years ago, but no, I just listened to it.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

You cannot be ashamed of MCR. First of all, we we are we are late 80s kids. Emo hit us hard. I went to the MCR reunion show at um the what's that? The shrine, the shrine auditorium.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Oh my god, I went to it at the Oracle in um in uh uh Oakland. That was my music.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

I also saw that tour. But I would say that the Spice Girls Reunion Tour I went for my own pleasure. The MCR I was hired to go and review it, but I once I was there, I was so happy I was there. See, um, yeah, so no shame, no shame in uh the Gerard way um mode of life, but I um yeah, I think that to go back to what I was saying, slight detour. Slightly. Um I there's none of my qualities that uh benefited people when it suited them for a really long time have gone away. In fact, they've actually, you know, the thing about all of the high pressure of the last few years, particularly since October 7th, is that you know, you're just like you're a diamond under pressure, and your your edges are becoming stronger and more glistening, and it cut it, you cut your you continue. I've always maintained, and I when I used to mentor younger writers, I always used to say this you're never the finished article, and you should never be the finished article. But all these experiences, I feel like I'm cutting my teeth over and over and over again. And you know, I was thinking even this morning about that whole piece that I just said about you know, Hollywood teams and PR teams thinking that all of this is a bad look and you have to get these like it doesn't matter what someone did for your career or your voice or whatever, get rid of these Zionists. Oh my god, right? First of all, um, can we just talk about the track record of like Jewish uh success and excellency? Um, kind of a bad idea business-wise to get rid of Jews, just saying, anyway, um, if we don't excel your business, we'll just buy it over at the end of the day. But um sorry, but I yeah, I was just thinking about how it's not just that my voice used to actually like uh help someone's career advance, and you know, the way that I would write about someone's music would catch the eyes of record labels literally, and then they would get a deal. Um that continues to be the case, like whatever whatever role I played in someone's progress in their career is actually continuing to contribute to their success today. Absolutely. And you know, no one can actually take that away from me. Nobody, nobody can erase the contribution that that has made. And you know, suffice to say, like, I don't know. It's it's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

It's like well, have you had anyone actually whose career you've you know blew up and then they like turn their back on you but then realize they shouldn't and come back? Has anyone like acknowledged happened yet?

SPEAKER_03 25:41

That hasn't happened yet, but I don't I you know which is depressing. But um I don't think that well, there's there's a piece here about ego and a lack of accountability and also a lack of vulnerability. I think I think a lot of people who work in the arts, which is incredibly ironic, because in order to be a really brilliant artist, you do have to be vulnerable and you have to be fearless. But I think when it comes to personal vulnerability, there's a huge uh mask up or multiple masks, everyone wears masks in this industry, and I think that um in order to take accountability for mistakes made or people who were discarded or whatever at any point in time. I think that there has to be um a preparedness to be vulnerable in a way that's perhaps uncomfortable for a lot of people who have, you know, by no fault of their own learned to have a certain level of protection and guardedness around them. I mean, it's hard to be in the spotlight. Sure, you know, absolutely. Um, but I d I do think I mean I had an I had amazing relationships with people, and I do think that they're my my approach to life is to always see the best in people. I don't talk shit on people, I never will. Like if I loved you at some point in my life, I'm always going to keep that, you know, keep that love, and like my my perspective is always just you know, thanks for the memories, like all of that. But I I do not know, true outlook. I do I do believe in um in people reclaiming their center. I believe in retribution, and I believe that um I believe people can do better, and I believe that people can come back from I believe people can come back from anything, and I like to have that optimistic but realistic perspective of let's not let let's not think that I'm never like I'll never have that conversation with at least someone, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

No, I mean I I agree and I think that that's I think that that's really so rare, you know. Like a lot of people say that like no, like I never want to speak to you again. And I think that with you, I mean you would be the the best person for someone to admit their wrongs to. Because I think that you would be so understanding and forgiving of someone who is just willing to finally be honest. And so I I hope I hope people that have wronged you come back. There are definitely people in my life who I hate to say that I miss, you know, that have like literally exited my life since October 7th, who I was friends with since I was 10. And like I wish I could say I didn't care. Yeah. Or I wish I could say that like I didn't want to know how they're doing. What because like I I can't turn off the fact that they were my friend for that many years. Right. You know? Um, but then were they really, if that's how easily discarded I could be. Yeah, yeah. You know, and so it's like it's still it's hard, and there's very few that I I care about. Mostly like I'm I'm either numb or just ambival, you know, completely ambivalent to it, but there are a few god, like so many big moments that are happening in my life. Like I definitely share with people.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah, like I definitely, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

I feel that a lot. Like I know that I want to, you know, marry Maddie. I'm going to propose, like I know all of these things, and it's like to think that like she knows, yeah, this is fine. It's not happening tomorrow, but she knows, she definitely knows. But it's like um Maddie. Yeah, she'll love that. Yeah, she please say yes, don't do that to me. Um, but yeah, I just uh to think that like some of these people who have seen me through everything not be there when I'm finally with my person. And I mean, some of my friends have seen me through, oh god, yeah, like they'd be happy.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

And some of these people don't even know that right now. Like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Yeah, I think I think it's hard, like you want to bring people through every chapter of your life, and the thing that's been so hard about these few years is having those cords cut, but I really do have to say, I I don't think a lot, I I don't think anything is ever really forever. You know, for me, there are things I'm not gonna say that I don't have a scale, like you know, if you attempted murder on my life, unforgivable, like I'm I'm not gonna that's you know, obviously, but you know, if you've got a bit carried away with yourself about like my position, or you know, you've chatted shit about me around town or something like that, but you're gonna come to me and you're gonna say, Hey, I I really fucked up, you know, I've changed my perspective, I got it wrong, I'd like to like hear more. Like, how are you? Can we can we make a mess, like can we mend this? Um who am I to not be open to that conversation, you know? Like, as I said, if if I really like someone at some point in my life, I really fucked with you, I really loved, like, I really loved hanging out with you, we had a great thing. Like, what I'm not I also need to find a place for the the me that I was at that point in my life who had that bond with someone, like I'm not actually, I'm not someone that's very like that goes shallow with people. I'm I'm pretty like if we're friends, I'm in it, yeah. So I I just feel like that is a beautiful opportunity for growth and healing, and I I really feel as though as someone who's experienced a lot of pain in the in the last few years, you know, um the ability to have opportunities to heal some of those wounds, I would I would welcome that. I don't think, yeah, like I said, unless you're like trying to burn my house down or something, um, yeah, I you know, we're all on this ride, and again, coming back to the empathy, people are people are disappointing, and people get carried away with nonsense a lot of the time. And I do think that people are lonelier and more lost and more subjected to I think some of us are better at navigating how scary the world has become than others, and I don't fault some of the past people in my life for maybe maybe allowing some of the noise of all of this to take them off to a different course. Like, I am Jewish, I have that connection with my peoplehood, my name like the nation of Israel, like all of it. For me, it's the most natural thing in the world to fight for my survival. I don't expect I mean I do, I did expect loyalty and reciprocity and understanding from a lot of people, but I guess I guess when the noise that we are up against is so loud, I understand why it's scary, and I understand the cost of using your voice or even standing next to someone using their voice. I get the cost.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

But you know what's what's crazy is that I I mean this not to sound like morbid, but it it all this has also really taught me how like no wonder the Holocaust happened, or how freely it happened. And it's like saying that, right? Yeah, and I've been looking at some people and and really wondering, like the question of like, would you hide me? First of all, why would we need that? Like, that's you know, are we really getting to that point? And I think, I mean, honestly, with all the DSA members that are getting elected all over the country, I'm I'm getting kind of we should be scared. Um, not just as Jews, but just like Americans in general, should be scared. Like, this is crazy. Um, but uh yeah, there's a lot of people who I don't know if if they would hide me, and not because they wouldn't want to protect me, but because they value their own life and their own safety over mine, you know, and that I think a lot of people, I hate to say it, but they just don't want to be bothered, or they don't want, or like, you know, like it's so weird, but like, even you know, I've been around, I've I've been exposed to a lot of like hospice care because my my mom owned like home health care businesses and hospice businesses. And I remember, you know, a teacher of mine uh was passing away and she had become like a mentor and slash friend, and I was a good friend with her husband. And long story short, I was like present and like when she passed, and I was like helping her towards like the end of life. And I guess I had some people ask me, be like, why are you like immersing yourself in all of that like negativity? Like it could rub off on you, or like your life, like people almost feel like if you're getting too close to trauma, the trauma's gonna somehow leak on you. And or like you're like, oh, like don't go to the hospital, or like don't visit too many cancer patients. You might like just it's like such a weird thing. I think it's a weird superstition that I've heard. Yeah, like somehow it's like so bizarre. But like, like people almost like tell you, like, stay away from the bad stuff, because it's like, why expose yourself to that? And then I'm still the opposite. I'm like scary movies where you're like, why are you going there? That's we're going there.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

But I guess to me, that's the explanation. I feel like a lot of people, like in Germany, probably were like, uh-uh, I'm just not getting involved. Like, I I don't know Jews, or like you, I'm not even friends with you, or like you're just whatever, like it's and that's it, and like obviously with the propaganda that was getting pushed by the Nazis, like it's so easy for them to just be like, okay, whatever. Which is, and that's that it's like literally like replaying in so many ways now. Well, let me say something.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

So I don't like the would you hide me thing resurfacing, you know why? Because we don't fucking need people to hide us anymore. Yeah. Okay, so that's that we're not in the same place. Yep. We have Israel, we have a state, we have uh military, we have uh, you know, we have the Massad, we have alliances with America, we are we are not the weak, vulnerable Jews. We're strong Jews and we don't need you to hide us. We're gonna take our care of ourselves, thank you very much. Yep, love it. But also, I think what's really interesting about the premise of the would you hide me thing is that it's almost been psychologically, it's been inverted. Instead of being of needing to be hidden by people, uh, our would-be allies have erased us. So it's the opposite. It's actually as though we are being we're we're we are being hidden. We're we we are literally being removed. Um and I think about that a lot. The the the cowardice of that to me is arguably even worse. Yeah, agreed. You know, like disappearing your neighbors and your friends and your former loved ones from the timeline, from the streets, from like wherever it is. Yeah. Um yeah, that's that the I mean I guess people have written about it in terms of you know the the term like the vanishing Jew. It's that that's what I find the most disturbing is sort of that um the the the pattern of the Jew the the wandering Jew, the Jew having to constantly relocate and find their new place in society because of this regenerated um hatred that finds its host in every iteration and every generation. Um it's so crazy how at once um past referential and prophetic all of our stories and our texts and our customs are. Every time now where we celebrate a festival, it isn't just that we are um remembering our past, it's that we're prophesying like what's happening now. Yeah, it's like a memorial at everything. It it really feels it's really you know, and like at Hanukkah, it's like, oh, okay, here we are. Passover. Okay, why does this feel again like it's you know Rosh Hashanah? Like it's all it like it just feels like everything that we No, like even Purim, like they're everything.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Purim, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

Even like the funnest thing, it's like nope.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Like so, yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Oh, they're trying to get rid of us again. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

What's new? Yeah, yeah, but we always win though. And I think that that's like I I almost like I I definitely think we're the chosen people. I don't mind saying that. But I and I and I do feel like in some ways we were chosen to to struggle and to always find a way to survive. That's just like I think ingrained in us, and I whether it's I don't know, I think it's just because history has proven it. I have yet to see a situation where it hasn't. You know?

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Well, chosen, so I think it's interesting because people obviously have a very strong reaction to the chosen, the idea of chosen. It's not chosen like we are better than everyone else. Right. I don't think it's the there is this, there is this again, you know, we were talking earlier about obsession and fixation. There's this constant fixation on the Jews. And every time I speak on anti-Semitism or Jew hatred, as I prefer to call it now, um, I talk about the it's really important to understand that Jews don't call cause Jew hatred. Jew hatred survives us, it always will. It doesn't matter how much we try to expose it and fight against it, it is enduring, it is as enduring as us as a people. So why is that? Why is it that we are one of the oldest peoples on earth? Our roots go back thousands upon thousands of years. Why is it that our hatred also carries with us, survives with us? And I think that's where the idea of chosen is really interesting. It's sort of like we become the litmus test for where society is at, where society can handle us, can accept us, or where it becomes again fixated on us being for some reason as 0.2% of the global population, the root cause of everything that what people perceive to be is everything wrong with society. Well, again, society is hitting a wall, like there's a problem here again. So that's how I think of the the term behind chosen, and I think also chosen in the capacity that for the Jews among us who are strong enough to fight against the reprisal of this hatred and to s to to fight for our survival, we are the we kind of become not the arbiters, I think that's too strong a word, but we carry this this like almost um what's the word that I'm looking for? We carry almost like a standard for Western civilization to adhere to. We carry these laws of civilization and this way of being and this way of living among each other that constantly pulls us back to center, and it's why extremists on the left or the right, or extremists in the Islamic world, are so antagonized by us because we are fundamentally centrist in our philosophy and we're trying to keep everything in the middle of the road, and in truly, like throughout all societal history, it's the people who are trying to change things the most in the most extreme of ways that wind up turning their focus on us as the reason it can't happen, and seek to you know completely eradicate us. That's why we have all of these extremists on both sides at the moment chanting from the river to the sea. They literally want to want to eviscerate Jewish life in the world in order to achieve their goals. And what are their goals?

SPEAKER_01 42:14

To destroy America. To destroy America and all Western society, and just I I mean, I feel like but what's I can't talk. Um I feel like it's all self-destructive. That's the part that like kills me. I what I don't understand is like, okay, like I I can understand why um, I don't know, a member of the IRGC who is a who's a man and he's a general and his life is individually beautiful and perfect under the regime that he's creating. Okay, I can understand why he wants that. But why would a woman, why would a gay person, why would why would literally anybody else, like aside from that one type of person, that one, the the one elite man that has, you know, who's a general in the uh in a terrorist organization, aside from someone like that, everybody else is a victim.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

I can't ask that question though, because it makes too much sense. That's the thing, everyone that hates me or has decided that I'm doing something wrong by them or whatever, like I'm coming after you in a way that I'm that isn't allowed, I'm smearing someone. And I um how dare I make a record of the truth? Yeah, you know, I am literally just holding up a mirror in your face and saying what you're doing isn't consistent with your message, it isn't consistent with what you deem to be your identity, it is not consistent. You are advocating for your own device, you're advocating for your own destruction. I'm just here telling you, it's like it's just what I've been saying. This is we as Jewish people understand this not because we're Jewish, but because we are the living proof that it's attacking free our freedom, our what we are. Representing as people who are diverse, who have different political beliefs, who have different, you know, ways of looking at life, who are gay, who are straight, who are black, white, you know, brown. The Jewish people predate all of these different theories, and you know, all race theory, all queer theory. We predate all of it and we represent everything under the sun. And these extremist ideologies are destroying us and do not care about any facet of our identity at all. So we're first past the post, we're the first ones to get hit. We're telling you, hey, this shit is not friendly towards anything that is represented by you and your lifestyle and how you and your freedoms, and their antagonism towards us is because they're so attached and married to their their group think and their ideology, and so instead of hearing what we have to say, it becomes your personal, you this is a personal attack on me. I'm you know, like it makes no sense, but it's because they cannot look at reality, they've become too invested in something that whether they see it now or not, is um a race to the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I can't I can't agree with it anymore. You literally make so much sense, but I wish that there was like a solution to this beyond just pumping out as much information as we possibly can to fight against it. Like it's it seems like you know when the Mossad planted those pagers on Hezbollah.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

We can't celebrate that.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Oh yeah, sorry. Well I loved it, obviously. And what I don't these cameras are like giving me like I have to fix them.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

But um anyway, I it's weird how a bunch of feminists got really upset about rapist terrorists having their dicks blown off. Like ordinarily, they would be so they would be so happy about that.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Yeah, I mean I know why every single camera wants to give me a dimer. Well, I think what's what I loved so much about that was that we did it 10 years in advance, you know, like we planted it 10 years ago and it was so effective. And I I looked at Massad and I was like, wow, like we're just the best. And then I think about oh no, the other side's already done that with us, but in every other aspect, they're not in our pockets with explosives, but they're in our phones. Yeah, yeah. And they are in our schools and they're in all of our media and they're in all of our politics. And so they found a way. It's like they, you know, when they were crashed into those towers, it was that happened physically, but it's like the the dust of that has now seeped into every other aspect of our lives, and it's it's a big beast that we have to fight.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Well, there you know, people talk, I I speak a lot about the racism of low expectations, which is how you know, so many people on the far left and the far right don't understand the threat of Islamism because instead of looking at the cultures that we're importing and understanding what the the capture that is being sought, the ideological capture, the physical um intimidation and the you know, all of this, they fetishise the underdog and third worlders instead, and they also like diminish their agency by basically having this racism of low expectations, like oh well these people can't harm us, you know, they're from these third world countries and they just want to integrate and assimilate, and and some do, but not um not the the the the male not people like momdani, not people like well, not people like momdani and not um men that have been trained in terrorist camps in Yemen and Syria who who are living among us and you know these that this racism of low expectations has allowed for so much permission in our tolerant societies. I always say that this tolerance and this focus on tolerance has been abused by people who don't want to be tolerant. So, you know, the legal system in, for example, the UK has been has been totally abused by people who want to impose laws that are not uh complicit with democracy. So you have these sharia-like laws that are now being practiced in areas of the UK without without you know policing.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Aren't there like neighborhoods I've heard? Like actually, someone wrote me from the UK telling me that what that one of their neighborhoods had all these Palestinian flags up, and the city council when the neighbors wanted to put up the um British flag to no.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

But left the other ones up. Yeah. What what and they were like, we just don't want to cause any problems. And I'm just like, why? Like, what is up with everyone just being so easy, like so easily, just like, okay, we're just gonna give up our rights. Like, they're literally telling you to remove the flag of your own country. Like, 100% what?

SPEAKER_03 49:47

100%. And you know, like this, um, I mean, it's a lesser example, but what happened at Wimbledon last week where a tennis player, uh, and forgive me, I don't really follow the women's game anymore, but the um I I don't remember the name of the athlete, but she she was beaten anyway in the first round or the second round, but she I think it was the first round. I don't even think she won a match, like that which actually is so pertinent to this whole thing. She wanted to be able to make a stance about Palestine at Wimbledon. Now Wimbledon has had a zero politics policy for how old is Wimbledon? 128 years or something. I mean, over a hundred years. Wimbledon is one of the one of the greatest sports institutions in the world, and you know, by royal approval. And um instead of so they made a compromise with her that she was allowed to have a watermelon thing on her ASICs racket, and it was specially designed so that she could have this. Now, in the whole whole history of Wimbledon, not a single athlete, no matter what political stance they were taking at any urgent or otherwise point in time, has been able to represent that political stance or their nationality at the in terms of like wearing something that represents you know their country in the history of the tournament until now.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

I love how that nobody knows about this. I don't know, I had no idea about it.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

I I tweeted about it last week, so I was horrified until now, until Palestine. It's this leniency that is happening because of the bullying that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

How do they justify the permit?

SPEAKER_03 51:41

Did they even go on record to justify why I don't know if Wimbledon made a made a statement about it?

SPEAKER_01 51:46

I'll have to see. Wow, that's insane. I I I mean, I mean, we just saw at the World Cup the the coach of the Egyptian team. I mean, this is comedy, constantly waving the Palestinian flag. And the reason why I laugh is that Egypt has done nothing to help Palestinians. Right, right. So let's just okay. Totally let's talk about the wall. Yeah, that's comedy. Like, I actually would argue that Israel has helped Palestinians way more than Egypt has in every way, shape, and form.

SPEAKER_03 52:10

3,000 Ghazans were allowed work permits to come into Israel every single day before October the 7th.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yep, and gay people were given asylum, and yeah. So, but anyway, and then he when he s saw the audience, someone in the crowd was wearing an Argentinian shirt and waving an Israeli flag, and I mean he was like enraged by this, and it was like music to my ears was like the best thing that I could see. But it just it the hypocrisy is like so it's so crazy. I don't even like it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_03 52:43

The tolerance of our societies is is being mocked by intolerant societies that want to want to mirror the intolerance of the societies they come from in the West. That is why but that's why there is this massive conversation about the fall of Western civilization.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

And you better not be living.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

It's not racist to talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

No, not at all. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

It's like Christopher Hitchens said prophetically again, I think in 2012 or 2013, he said, While you still have the right to complain, use your voice. And he was talking specifically about Islamophobia and how Islamophobia is a Muslim brotherhood term that has been introduced to the public discourse to effectively suppress any criticism of Islamic extremism.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Yeah, I oh god. Well, we need to wrap up because I'm sure these people are probably really sick of hearing us talk for this long. Um, I'm not, I can keep talking to you for hours. Actually, I intend to. Are you hungry? Because we we're supposed to drive and get coffee. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Well, I can tell you where to go for a coffee.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Yeah, okay, so we can do that. Sorry, not with you guys, but um we'll we'll do that. But thank you for coming. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 54:06

They could become, I could get some new stalkers on this. Oh, yeah, god forbid.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Yeah, no, we're we're done. Bye guys.